My son was so on fire, he wanted to tell my husband and I about Bitcoin I missed a lot of the conversations because I'd be playing with his kids. I'm trying to listen but all talking grandma, grandma, grandma. And My son started coming over to my house late at night, when all of his kids were home in bed. That way grandma couldn't be playing with kids. He started giving me articles to read, resources and his own explanations and that was the beginnings of me wanting more

Hey, everybody. Welcome to Orange Hatter. Before we dive into my conversation with our guest today, I want to share with you a very exciting project, the Orange Hatter Women's Retreat. The mission of this retreat is to create a nurturing sanctuary where women in the Bitcoin space can connect with each other, recharge batteries, find grounding, and form deep friendships so that you don't feel so isolated where you are sharing the potential of Bitcoin with the world while keeping an eye on the fiat system. This retreat is going to be absolutely amazing. I am partnering with the Yucatan Project in Mexico. The details will be rolled out later this week. Keep an eye out on Twitter at Orange Hatter Pod. I'll give out more information as they are finalized. Spaces are very limited, and they're going to fill up fast. So sign up for it when the registration and I will see you in Mexico. And now we're going to. Continue with our podcast. Here is my conversation with our wonderful guests today. Thank you for coming on the show. Mary Lou, welcome to Orange Hatter.

Thank you, Tally.

Very excited to hop into your Bitcoin journey. So let's start by just. Doing a little introduction of yourself so people can get a sense of where you're coming from.

Well, I'm Mary Lou, and my husband is Jeff. We've been married 48 years. We have four children plus another one we call a son. We have ten grandchildren so far. And I'm also close with my three brothers. So, God and family are the things that are very important to me the most. And what a blessing to be surrounded by family. I live in Northampton, Massachusetts, where I was born. And I'm not sensitive about saying I'm 66 years old. And mainly I say that because Our money goals have changed through the years. And now that we're in the older part of our lives, definitely our goals have changed, little bit more of my background is when, when our kids were growing up, I ran a state licensed daycare in my home, 50 hours a week for 10 years. So I could be home with my children at the same time. because I feel like. The reason I was put here on earth was to raise children into a whole new generation for our country and for our world. So that was my definite main focus. Now that I'm older. I, I'm retired from my real job. I was Director of Religious Education for the Catholic Church, actually for five Catholic churches at the same time. And then due to churches coming together, I was then Director of one church. and although I'm retired from that. That was my career job. I currently work, well, I volunteer 25 hours per week for the church. but I also am the one person office for my brother's landscaping company, which was something I never had an interest in doing. But, you know, office work, I'm pretty good at. So, that's where I ended up. Why I ended up doing that. growing up I grew up below the poverty level. My dad had four jobs, but no benefits whatsoever. No health insurance, just by the hour. and. It never bothered me that we were really poverty. we had cousins that were on what they called welfare back then. And they would share some of their stuff with us if we really needed. also I took care of my younger brothers a lot. when, when they were young, my mom had very poor health. So a lot of that was on my shoulders. I never saw it as a burden. I thought of it as a way to grow, a way to manage my time so I could be in junior high school, still do homework, still potty train and, you know, take care of my younger brothers, get them off to neighbor babysitters before and after school. but I think it made me be the person. That I am today, you know, so it's not a complaint. It's just a fact. Uh, by the time I was 18, I was in my own apartment with two jobs to try to support myself. But then I was married not, not long after that. And I also say that because it goes to show how I became a saver, not a spender, how to get along in life with a low amount of money for many years. I'm not a person that wants to be wealthy, just comfortable. And I think through these life choices and life learnings, but mainly due to God's blessings, we're comfortable enough. We're ready for retirement should it come, you know. my husband has been working, if I can brag, 51 years at the same company. So I'm very proud of him and he's still working. It's part time. In his like part retirement,

wow, It sounds like you've had Such an experience going from extreme poverty through careful financial planning to the point where you're comfortable and it sounds like you've done all the right things to prepare for retirement. And now you're just on the verge of doing that. You are still working for your brother, landscaping company, your husband's working part time, but you're just on the verge, and you found Bitcoin. So we're going to talk about that, but let's go back. Let's dig a little deeper into your childhood and your background. So your dad was working four jobs and your mom was not well, and you rely on the help of your family who were themselves on welfare. What was that like? If you don't mind reliving some feelings and experiences from that time.

Yeah, I don't feel like they were bad experiences. I just feel like they were learning experiences. And I, I feel very blessed that I was never jealous or envious. of my cousins for receiving, again, they called it welfare back then, I know they call it something else nowadays and back then, you wouldn't have food stamps or EBT cards, you would go line up in long lines down Main Street to a building where you would pick up welfare food. And it was interesting. It was, it almost looked like army food where you'd get an enormous can of tuna fish and printed on it. It said tuna fish. That was the only thing on the can, you know, and a block of cheese, but it would be like 10 pounds. In one block, and it said cheese. So, you know, whatever kind it was I don't know. But my, my, I would say, if, send Mary Lou if she comes and stands in line with us. I'll give her some of the stuff we don't like. So, We had a lot of stuff we didn't like either. My older brother and I still to this day talk about we'd get a cardboard box and inside was a plastic bag and the box said, Non fat, dry powdered milk. That was exactly what it said. It was the worst. And we, my mom and I, we'd mix it in a blender and you had to mix it with warm milk because it would be too lumpy and then put it in the fridge. So we were a family of six. So we would make nine. Half gallons at a time because that's what the refrigerator would hold nine standing up and it was bad, you know, but all the other food was just fine, like spam. It sounds horrible. We thought it was fine, you know, and we had a house. It was free. It came through my father's family when they passed, his older brother got the house. He moved out. My dad got the house. So, We were in a house that my dad lived in from when he was three years old, and he lived there till he was 80 and passed away. So we had a house with one car. So, my dad and mom shared it, and we were able to walk to school and stuff. So my mom was a terrific saver, and I know I learned from her. But, you know, our mattresses were bad. We had real beds, not like here. But when my cousins would, the government would then give them all a new mattress, we got their old mattress. So, we were always okay in a mattress. And other than the non fat, dry, powdered milk that bothered me, the only other thing that ever bothered me is I mentioned I'm Catholic, and I was getting ready to make my first communion. So I was seven, and I thought I was going to get a new dress, and I wore my cousins. And I don't know why that bothered me and why at my age I would still remember that. Because hand me down clothes, I never minded. My kids wore hand me down clothes and then I handed them down to other people too. But I guess I just thought it was so special to make your first communion that I wanted that new dress. But that would be the growing up in the money situation. It was good.

So I'm curious, why did your family not receive this welfare that your cousin's family was receiving?

I should have said, my father was too proud. He said, I'm the breadwinner. I will work as many jobs as I can to take care of my family. So at three in the morning, he would go for his first job. He collected garbage as an employee of a company back in the day when people would throw their food scraps in a metal pail outside, and he would dump the metal pail, do the route, and the route was from three in the morning to seven in the morning. Then he went to a different job and it was collecting trash. So he drove the big trash truck and you jump out and pick up everybody's trash barrels and dump them by hand. Nowadays they have trucks that are, you know, front end loaders and things that pick them up. But he would do that and that was seven to three. Then he would go to He worked at a lawnmower shop and he repaired lawnmowers when they were repaired, he delivered them to the people, but he could only squeeze that in. And that was also on weekends, because from 4pm to 6pm. He drove truck for the post office, and it would just be go to eight different local post offices and deliver enormous bags of mail, and my older brother and I really loved it before my younger brothers were born, because he would take us. With him, he'd come pick us up at four, and for two hours, we'd ride in this big truck, and we'd get out and roam the post offices. The other funny part is the truck didn't have seatbelts, and we thought it was fun to ride in the back with all the mail. And it was pitch dark back there, and we would like hold on to the lats that were on the sides of the truck so we wouldn't fall over. And we, you know, sat on Bags of mail, but they were good memories and we'd get home and my mom would have supper already for all of us. Of course, when the younger brothers came, my mom's health failed and my dad still did the, all the jobs, but we, I kind of stayed home to help with the kids. So, no benefits with four part time jobs. That's why there were no benefits and I do remember my mom saying for years and years and years, she paid our hospital 5 a month, because every time she had a baby there was a hospital bill, and they couldn't afford it. And how nice that the hospital would accept such a low amount of money. I mean, I. I remember being a teenager and she was still paying. So, and we did not go to the doctor very often. I'll tell you that. When the school made you for shots, we would go, but other than that, if we were sick, we got better on our own, you know? Mm-Hmm.

You didn't feel poor and I think that's really interesting to witness your dad working so hard and then having to step up when your mom wasn't feeling well And yet you didn't feel poor. Like how is that possible?

because I had a home, I had clothes. even though they were used, it didn't matter to me. And I think because I had a mom and a dad in a stable family and, they loved us, they were interested in what we had to say, I, so I didn't feel lacking. The other thing, and because I felt this way as a kid, I tried to teach it to my own kids, if you try to take the responsibility yourself, if you're like, when I was 12, I was babysitting a lot for families, because that was my money. And I actually could go to our local department store. It was called Bradley's at the time. They don't exist anymore. And you could buy a shirt for two or three dollars, you know, on their bin. And I would say, I bought this shirt myself. And it made me feel good about myself. The summers of when I was 12, 13, and 14, I actually, by then, My mom was doing a little better and I babysat 48 hours per week for a family that had three kids. my mom didn't want me to spend my childhood working, but I was like, it's kind of fun, you know, they listen to me. They're good kids. It's okay. I love kids, I play with them. I was paid terrible money, even compared to other people in the day, but the family. We're farmers, so they didn't have a lot of money to pay a babysitter full time, but they would sell my parents a 50 pound bag of potatoes for 2. So potatoes are filling, and every meal you can have a lot of potatoes, and my mother would cook them different ways. So we weren't hungry. I remember one day my dad surprised me and it was a Thursday or Friday paycheck day was Friday and my mom made pancakes for supper because they ran out of money for food that week. And my dad said, these pancakes are so good. These are the best pancakes. And I said, I thought you liked hamburgers the best. No, these are good. Later that evening, my mom apologized to me that pancakes were what we had for supper, that there was No protein, no meat, no. And I was I was so surprised. I thought that was treat night. I loved pancakes for supper, you know? I didn't realize that I would have anything to do with waiting for the paycheck to come to buy a hamburger. So I don't know. I think God gave me the accepting attitude and he gave me a family that loved me. And I. Always had my faith. for years my mom was sick and she couldn't go to church and I would walk to church by myself like I'm talking like I was six and seven and up years old and I was a little afraid walking down the street. It was close, but as a kid it felt far, where I had to go on three different streets. And I used to think, I hope I can find it. Like, geez, you'd think I'd be used to it, you know. But it was that important to me. I wanted to go. They didn't make me go. God spoke to my heart, and I think that kept me going all those growing up years.

it's interesting that you said your family loved you and their attitude Basically shielded you, I think from feeling poor and in today's society, at least I felt this pressure. I felt like I had to provide so much to our kids materially to make sure I didn't deprive them. And it's such a wonderful reminder speaking to you that really all the kids care about is the parents love them and they have food on the table. Like even pancakes. You know, kids, if we just had candy for dinner, the kids will probably be very happy, but I'm, you know, I'm making sure that there's, grass fed, organic beef and organic vegetables and organic quinoa and all that stuff. And we stress ourselves out. And if you think about the very, very basics, if you cover the basics, the love, acceptance, and a great attitude. That's the most important part Scott and I, just launched a homeschooling podcast and we're sharing lessons that we learned over the last 20 years homeschooling our kids. And I think what you just said, we need to talk about because we are like society. I don't know what it is today. Maybe it's all the social media. We feel such pressure. Like parents feel such pressure to provide opportunities for their kids. And we're going crazy scrambling for money to pay for this camp and that camp And yeah, going back to basics, I think, I think it was really good to hear what you said,

and I hear you, what you're saying, where four of our kids are married with little kids. And I see all the really healthy food. These kids eat so healthy. It's amazing. They are into, even as kindergartners and four year olds, they're into all the sports with hockey gear and, baseball and it's like, All the stuff that they do. Gymnastics and, and I think that's great. I didn't have it, although for a short time, I had some ballet lessons, they, they were very short lived, but that was fun and it was the only organized thing. Oh, Girl Scouts, because that was free. So I was a girl scout growing up. But I kind of held those values. When I became a parent, and my kids didn't seem to mind that they had left over my, our first child was our daughter, and it was like I'm ready to give birth, and we didn't have a crib. My husband. I worked five 12 hour nights, for almost our whole marriage as a blue collar worker, and I stopped working for just about, I think, three years when our first two kids were born, so I could be home with them. So, money was tight, but we did choose. To buy a house and live poor rather than have an apartment and have a little extra money. We actually went 12 years without ever going to a movie. Our daughter was 12 the first movie that she went to. So we, we, You don't waste and we taught them to do chores in the house and we didn't pay our kids for the chores and they didn't get an allowance. I don't think they knew other families did that. But when they got older, they learned that we didn't buy them a car, and they all had jobs. And through high school. and really they paid for their own college. Nowadays, I think our government tells us that parents and grandparents have to pay for their kids college, but really they can get loans, they can get scholarships. And once you're out of college. If you can get the job that you went to college for, you can actually pay off your own college loans. I remember my daughter going off to college saying, Every. Single. One. Of my friends goes to college for free. Their parents pay. Like, she was a little ticked. And I would always say, you are going to be so proud of yourself later on. You're going to tell everybody, you did this on your own, and I am so proud of you. I think she got sick of the speech, but you should hear her now. She tells everybody, my parents never paid for college. She, she forgets that we did pay for books and things, you know, but, but she did pay for college. And she, she's an OBGYN doctor. Our sons all went to get their masters. We have a nuclear engineer son and a computer engineer son and a son that went to MIT for a master's in his business. So, you don't have to give your kids, everything in order for them to become successful. They did it on their own. We love them supported them and did the best we could. But as the years rolled on, we were able to save my husband's self taught on stocks and bonds and ways to invest over just putting the money in the bank, which was all I ever did. and really there were times that I didn't want him to save because I wanted to bring my kids to Burger King. Every kid in the neighborhood had a Burger King crown Except us, and I was suffering. I wanted them to have the Burger King crown, but he was like, I'm saving 10 a week and that's it. And we're not bringing up to Burger King with the 10 bucks. And he was right. if you're willing to not waste. You still can be very happy and nothing much bothered me except my daughter's used crib, which seven children had used before her and I kind of wanted a new crib. And the Burger King crown so those are the only things that ever bothered me. So you really can psych yourself out and say you can have a happy life, even if you're not wealthy.

So I'm just thinking back to what you said about how your kids did chores and you didn't pay them for it. That was a big topic that my husband and I argued about when the kids were little, because he wanted to pay them an allowance based on their chores. And I said, no, they're part of the family doing chore. We don't get paid to do chores. Why should they get paid? to do chores. They're part of the family. They should help to maintain the house. This is part of their responsibility. Of course, the other side of the argument is how are you going to teach them how to manage money, but in my mind, if you're going to give the kids money. To show them how to use it and save it and budget for it. Give it to them as something extra that they do. Not the ordinary things, not like taking out the garbage. Because that's regular stuff that everybody should pitch in and help with, And then what you were saying about Letting the kids feel pride that they earned something, for your daughter to be able to say, I pay for most of my college.

Mm hmm. I remember when my son Reid was in undergrad in college and he had to work three jobs while he was in engineering school. My other son who later went to engineering school said, it feels impossible that Reid could actually go to school. Get all a's and work three jobs. He said, I can handle only two. So he worked two jobs, but I was so proud of Reid for that. And, okay, sometimes we give them a 10 bill, but, I think when my youngest son got out of. MIT, he owed 250, 000 in education loans and like all of our kids had big ones, but he's paying them off and he's got a good job. He can afford to do that. So good for them. They did it.

Scott and I just did an episode yesterday on our homeschooling podcast, and we're like, let the kids feel like they accomplished something themselves. And if they have to take out and okay, we can go into a whole nother conversation about how horrible the education costs have risen. but if you can make it happen and you did it on your own, that is a huge source of pride, you know, and that affects every part of your life going forward.

It really does. And as far as allowance, we made having a list of chores, we tried to make it fun. Sometimes the older ones didn't think it was so fun, but it was this big honor. When you turn two years old, the day after your birthday, you would get a list of chores. You are so lucky. Like, okay. So when they were two. The list would be make your bed. Of course it would look horrible. And I, I would bite my lip and not fix it. I would leave the bed messy. That was hard because I wanted it to be, hug mommy, hug daddy. So you have to come to the wherever, whatever room we're in, hug. check it off the list, you know, pick up three toys and put them away. So that was the type of list. And as the kid got older, it would grow. So the oldest kid would have to read the list to the two year old. Who couldn't read yet. So even I wasn't doing that, you know, I'd have the older daughter. Okay, go find mommy and hug her. But I like the hug. It benefited me. But the dusting, that was my daughter's worst. She hated it. And they all shared dishwasher. Empty, you know, so they were very manageable things and with a household of six of us and I ran daycare full time, it was a big help to me to have a kid empty the dishwasher.

Yeah, I I feel like we can talk about this forever. But let's circle back to Bitcoin How did you hear about Bitcoin? And when did I happen?

I heard about Bitcoin through my son, Reed, who, as we segue from parenting into Bitcoin, I really feel on fire to say he has three young kids. He does pay them, uh, like to do work in the house. He'll pay them. They choose to be paid in Bitcoin. He pays his kids in Bitcoin and they are happy. I mean, one of them is in first grade, they all have Bitcoin. He's taught them about it and they're actually saying, I would rather Bitcoin than cash. So way to go read. So Reed started to tell my husband and I about Bitcoin back in 2015 ish, and he was diving into it. he was working full time house with three kids, but late at night, he was really pouring time into it. He wanted to share this with us, but at the time, my husband was not really interested. He had his way of saving. We're older he's like, no, I, this is my set way of doing money. Bank stocks, you know, so not interested, but my son was so on fire, but I missed a lot of the conversations because I'd be playing with his kids. Heck, they're here, Reed and Jeff are having this Bitcoin conversation, and I'm trying to listen with my ear, but I'm playing with three kids all talking grandma, grandma, grandma. Well, my poor husband, I would grill him after Reed's family would leave. What did Reed say? I heard this sentence. Now, what part was that? And he really wasn't giving me the details that I wanted. And I think it was because he wasn't that interested, so maybe he wasn't investing himself in listening well enough to be able to repeat what was said. So after some years went by, Reid Picked up on the fact that I was pretty interested. So the fall of 2021, Reed started educating me. And he started coming over to my house late at night, when all of his kids were home in bed. That way grandma couldn't be playing with kids. And he started giving me articles to read, going on the internet. Um, giving me resources and his own explanations and that was the beginnings of me like wanting more, wanting more.

Yeah, what was he telling your husband about that caught your ear that made you want to learn more?

Maybe it was less the words because I couldn't always hear the words. He was on fire. This was his passion. He would say, Dad, I see you're not really interested, but I believe this would be so good for you. And I want to benefit you. And I just think if you could put some time into it, you would see. That you can still keep what you've got with stocks. You, you can get a little Bitcoin, learn about it on your own time and your own pace. And, and I, I'm sorry, I don't want to harp, but I, I want good for you. And I kept thinking, I want to hear this conversation. And then my own journey. When he started coming over in the fall of 2021 and saying, okay, we're going to have a Bitcoin meeting you and I, I started liking, things that, that he would say about your independence with Bitcoin. I never liked big government. Especially when they say we're here to help you and then they don't really help you, I've nothing against government helping people in need, but maybe they're not always really there. And I always felt that the government was set up to be of the people by the people for the people. But. People are in charge of the government and people aren't God. People, greed comes out accidentally. I think when people start working in the government, they probably say, I want to help people, but greed sneaks in and I don't have trust in our government, our economy. I think in a perfect world, I would have total trust and faith. But it's so filled with corruption. You have to even think a bank is a for profit institution. They're all looking to keep themselves going on the backs of people who Have no other recourse than to just trust the bank with your money, trust the government who can devalue your money at any time, who can just raise taxes and take your money at any time, who can take your money for taxes and spend it the way they want without asking taxpayers. How they feel we should have it spent. I don't have anything against taxes to help community to help people to have roads and schools. Sure. I'm glad to pay the taxes, but I'm not glad to pay them when I feel they're completely wasting. My hard earned money. I don't like that. And Reed is telling me Bitcoin's the opposite. And I'm like, you're kidding. Banks and governments don't control this? this is really, perking my ears. And I like the way nobody can steal your Bitcoin. You know, talking about the government can raise your taxes to do whatever they want with. Very recently, someone was able to gain access to our business checking account, the landscaping checking account, and they bought a very expensive cell phone. and a plan through T Mobile. We don't even have T Mobile. We're not T Mobile customers. Why didn't the bank pick this up that it wasn't us? And why didn't T Mobile pick up that it wasn't us? And a business checking account is pretty serious. It's very involved over a personal checking account. It took me over six months. to get everything straightened out. Checks were bouncing, fees were happening, the bank didn't want to pay the fees, but the bank's the one that gave a stranger our money, so where's the privacy or the security in that? And apparently I started hearing this happens regularly. So when I'm on the phone with the bank, they're asking me five specific questions for me to prove it's me. Where were the five questions for the person that got into the checking account? And we had to close it and open a new one and reset up all these business payments to vendors. This was a freaking nightmare. Bitcoin, that can't happen. That's what I've learned. I like that the government doesn't run Bitcoin. Everybody that owns Bitcoin runs Bitcoin. It's group based. God likes that. God wants us to work together and encourage each other to do the right thing, not lord it over each other, or actually steal from us. So it makes me feel that it goes, even with my faith, and my faith, Deep grassroots of who I am. and I think that Bitcoiners, it gives them hope for the future someday. I'm talking to other Bitcoiners and they wanna be able to go buy a loaf of bread with their Bitcoin. And, um, I would like Bitcoin to become a medium of exchange someday. You know, I'd be glad to get away from Fiat dollars. I do have a story about. the privacy of Bitcoin and why the privacy is important to me. really, it's just an example. I'm pretty stubborn and I don't like giving out a lot of information about myself. Although here I find myself on a podcast opening up all about myself. But recently, I was at a retail store. And believe me, I do not like shopping. I can go to a store and say, you know, I don't think there's one thing in this store that I actually need or want. I'm not a shopper. And with COVID, I went two years without entering a store. But recently. I went into a store to get something specific. And when I went to check out the cashier said, do you have a, a store card? No, I didn't have a store card. Well, if you sign up, you'll be able to save this many dollars on today's purchase right now, and then a percentage in the future, and you'll get emails and you'll get coupons. And I thought, I love to save a dollar, what would you want to know. So I look at the form, and there were way too many questions to give to a store. my name sure my email. Okay. I don't want to give them my phone. I don't want phone calls or texts about their deals and have me be at their beck and call to have to run to my phone. And then more stuff and more stuff, questions about how I spend and, trying to fit me into their categories. And I just, I said to the cashier, I don't really want the store to have all this information on me and she was young and she was really confused and she's like, but right this minute you could save this money. And I said, I would love to save the money but I don't think I want to save it at this expense. And she was really confused. I know. I know I'm being stubborn. I know most people would not agree with me. and I can't believe that I'm even brave enough to tell you in this podcast because I do sound sort of like a crazy person. but I didn't take the deal. And then because I was new to the store, she printed my receipt. And there was a coupon printed on the receipt. And I said, it expires in five days. I said, I'm not coming back to your store in five days. So there was a lady behind me in line. And I said, I've got a coupon. Do you want it? And she's like, Are you sure? And I'm like, yeah, you've got a full shopping cart. You might as well take the coupon. And the cashier is looking at me like you can't do that. She didn't say you can't do that. But she's like, no, shaking her head. No. And I said, Well, It's a coupon from your store. So the lady took it. She was thankful. I felt good about myself, although, I didn't get to save my few dollars on my purchase, but that's the privacy I'm looking at. And Bitcoin gives you that privacy where, because it's digital currency, they do have a way to, it's on a blockchain, every transaction is recorded. That tells me it's safe. But it doesn't have all your personal information in that blockchain, just that there was a transfer. And that's all. So I really like that, that fact that you can be private, and that you can have control over your money.

I don't think you're crazy by the way, to sell your information for a few dollars. I get caught up there was a time when Scott and I were moving around a lot. Kids were little and What we're doing the Dave Ramsey program We were trying to Pay down our debt because we also graduated with a ton of student debt and he's all about, you know, saving a dollar here and dollar here and Couponing was a big thing back then. You know

Oh yes.

out the Sunday Coupon page and I will make a whole pocket of them, organize and categories and things like that. And I would go to the store and I would never remember. To use any of them when I'm checking out

I always use 20 of them.

see, I have four kids very close. And when I went shopping, it was always a shopping cart for the food and a shopping cart with the kids and I was pushing both at the same time. So when you're going through the checkout line, you just want to be out of there as soon as possible. But because I always wanted to use coupons and I never got to use coupons when they give me coupons, I just throw them away because. I'm not going to remember, but when you cut coupons, you start to look at things in cents, like 5 cents here, 25 cents there, and something tiny like that becomes very enticing, so for you to stand in your ground, I think that shows your integrity and your character. So good for you. I don't think you're crazy because then they can target you with all kinds of. Advertisements and for me anyway, when I'm really strong, emotionally, I can be like, no, I'm not gonna do that. But when you're tired, and your emotional battery is drained, and they flash those things at you, you have less defense, and you're like, Oh, they think I should go buy that brand apple juice. Sure. I'll go, you know, I'm saying like you, you run out of energy to make decisions. Because that takes energy juice. So anyway, I can totally understand where you're coming from. I don't think you're crazy. Honestly, I wish I was strong enough to say no to a lot of those things because I become subject to their advertising campaign and things like that. But okay, so let's uh, let's go back to Bitcoin. And you are attracted to it because it's outside the control of the government and that it is a peer to peer transaction and it's private. What would you say to other people in the retirement age who are concerned about the volatility of Bitcoin?

I would say that was a big issue with my husband, especially because he like does his own dealings with stocks and trading and stuff, on the side, for me. I think I don't work in the day to day. I don't look at Bitcoin day to day. I think that it's a system that is working and will work. so therefore, I don't feel like I'll end up losing. I'm not gonna buy Bitcoin today, sell it tomorrow because the value is changing, buy more the next day at a lower price, so it'll go up, I'm not going to play that game. So I feel like long term it's going to work, but where I am 66, I am near retirement age, I feel like I don't have a lot of, years left in my life for value to really build up. I don't think it's something that is gonna be the only thing that keeps us alive through retirement. But I would say to someone on the fence, there's nothing wrong with diversifying. My husband can keep the stock stuff. I've been buying. Bitcoin, little by little, another way to look at it if you don't want to take a large amount of your retirement money and put it into Bitcoin, there's nothing wrong with taking say 5. There is. Value of Bitcoin and buying it once per week. That's not going to kill you. don't go to the store and buy a coffee that day and you're even so it's easy to actually start building up this Bitcoin. And then if you totally trust the government. If you say hey I'm 70. So far, I work, I make money. I put it in the bank and it's still there. I trust the government or the economic system. If you do still, do you have a reason to negate Bitcoin as part of your portfolio? I don't think so. I can't come up with a reason. That you wouldn't if you trust the government, you're going to trust Bitcoin. I think if you don't trust the government, maybe it's going to take a while before you can trust Bitcoin. But if, if you're on the fence and you say, I've got my money where I like it to be, don't be afraid to challenge yourself. Now that you're older, don't be afraid to step up. and keep learning. Use those brain cells. Put an effort there. You're not too old to make an effort to learn and make your own decision on nope, I'm not for Bitcoin or oh my goodness. This is really different. This might really make a difference. but go ahead. I'm not telling anybody what to do, but I'm just saying, open your mind, if you're 70. You learned how to do a computer in your adult life. Good for you. You learned how to do a smartphone. Don't quit now. Just keep learning. Plus they do say it's helps against dementia. If you keep using those brain cells. Definitely it's, it's not easy to learn about Bitcoin. It's certainly out of the box and it's a big learning curve, but You can do it as slowly as you want, you don't have to do it the way I did it, which is late at night, when everything is done. I am a person that stays up very late. I would spend from midnight to three in the morning, reading articles and doing research, you can do that. But if you're like, that's just crazy I go to bed at nine o'clock, you can spend 15 minutes a day. looking into it. You can listen to one of Tally's podcasts and learn about it and try to feel more comfortable about it. I did a few things that I would put out there as tips on learning. not that I, I'm not really in the know, but definitely going to a Bitcoin meetup was a big help. You get to meet people, you get to socialize. You think it's fun, but then it's educational. Once I started going, and I could be quiet and listen to all the education stuff going around until I realized I was throwing in my opinions to another thing that was. Brought to me in these meetups is to go to Bitcoin University on YouTube. I think they also have a site you can sign up, but I didn't wanna spend any money. I'm not sure if money was involved but you can go to YouTube and Bitcoin University will start you as though you just heard the word Bitcoin today. And it's sort of a Bitcoin for dummies kind of thing, and then it works its way to way up to where experts can still learn from Bitcoin University, Matthew Cratter is the guy in charge if you look it up. I also learned a bunch from Michael Saylor. So if you just look up his name, I think it comes up as Michael Saylor Bitcoin, because there's a lot to learn. But I think people are social. God made us social. And I think these gathering meetups, even if they're on Zoom, you're more willing to let down your guard, listen to what others say. Put out your ideas, even if you think your ideas might sound kind of crazy, or ill informed. Put it out there because that's how you're going to learn, you're going to get the feedback, that would be my advice.

Thanks for joining us today If the discussion with our guests resonated with you and you would like to dive deeper into the world of Bitcoin, don't miss out on joining the Orange Hatter Women's Reading Club. The meetup link is in the show notes. Also, if there are women in your life whom you think would both enjoy and benefit from learning more about Bitcoin, please share Orange Hatter with them. Until next time, bye!