Paul Laursen (00:00)

it's like, there's something that is a little bit woo woo ultimately, but it's like, you actually get this rise in your human health somehow through connections that you make with other humans.

Paul Warloski (00:38)

Hello and welcome to the Athletes Compass podcast where we navigate training, fitness and health for everyday athletes. We're talking today about the value of training alone or with groups. A research study from CRITS et al in 2025 suggests that while solo and group training produce similar overall fitness results, groups significantly outperform for functional improvements like strength and flexibility.

suggesting that the social element creates measurable physical advantages. The secret sauce isn't just companionship. A 2015 study from Rakow et al suggests that social support works through psychological mechanisms boosting self-efficacy and self-regulation that ultimately drives better performance.

This means your choice between training alone and with others isn't just about preference. It could be the difference between building functional fitness and hitting a plateau with an optimal approach depending on your psychological needs. That is a big mouthful, but let's start with our personal preferences. Paul Marjaana do you train alone or in groups?

Marjaana (01:49)

Both, ⁓ mostly alone because of my schedule. But I do enjoy training in a group.

Paul Laursen (01:59)

Yeah, and I'm the same. I'm 100%. I mostly train alone, but I also love training in groups. When I train in groups, I train with a buddy, Strength Training. It comes to my gym here behind me, ⁓ well, Stephane. And then also train velocity. I feel like I'm training with a group there. I love my velocity Thursday morning session with MJ and the crew.

But I love doing my cycling training, my outdoor cycling training or ski training on my own as part of my break and my routine. And even my swim training too. My swim training is kind of a mix. I rock up at the pool and I usually will just do my own little training there. But sometimes I'll meet someone that I know and we might do a couple sets together. So I really like a mix.

Paul Warloski (02:51)

Yeah, and I tend to be the same way as you two. tend to train alone because of my schedule. ⁓ But I do enjoy going for rides in groups. Just for the social aspect. Sometimes it's nice to be able to talk to people and hear what else is happening in the world. So for all three of us, what are some of the benefits and drawbacks

for you in training solo versus training in groups.

Paul Laursen (03:17)

For me, the drawback of training in a group sometimes might be that you just have to wait for them. you have to, you know, there's just, if you're looking for efficiency in your day,

you got to coordinate with someone and that can just kind of interrupt your flow or whatever you're trying to get at. So there's that. But then the benefits can be amazing because you get this... There's something, we talked about it in the last episode when we spoke about HRV and we know that one of the ways that you can actually get a rise in HRV is through your...

you your relationships with friends. And it's like, there's something that is a little bit woo woo ultimately, but it's like, you actually get this rise in your human health somehow through connections that you make with other humans. And I don't know, you know, a lot of it comes to a book that my good friend MJ shared with me. And it's basically, it's the biology of belief.

by Bruce H. Lipton. And it's been amazing. He talks all about the concept of epigenetics, where we're all influencing each other's beliefs through the connections that we make. So that's just a classic example of why in a group setting, you are actually, you're giving off and you're getting from other people. And there's this, you know, intangibles, ⁓ something that you're getting from it.

Paul Warloski (04:52)

So for you Marjaana what do you get out of the Thursday sessions on Velocity?

Marjaana (04:58)

so much. not only like you have to show up because I'm a coach.

Paul Laursen (05:04)

Okay. you

Marjaana (05:05)

So even that is huge. Like I hear it all the time. People say, if it wasn't for you, I would probably sleeping because like Paul and Cindy and SoCal, they all have to wake up super early and 6.30 they need to be ready on the bike, cranking up big watts. So one of the benefits obviously is you

show up when you say that you're going to do it.

So you show up. ⁓

social aspect, course, laughter, sharing, you know, stories, sharing sometimes vulnerable things and having good conversations. But we also do Saturday morning aerobic rides on Swift or Velocity, but indoors and we have like a ladies that ⁓ come in for a little bit and then

Paul Laursen (05:51)

you

Marjaana (06:08)

You know, someone like Cindy, cranks out four hours and it's done. goes,

time goes by so much faster when you're just chatting and, know, then just watching YouTube or Netflix show or staring at your Swift avatar. Right.

Paul Warloski (06:31)

staring into the darkness. So if the advantages of the group training are mostly emotional or psychological rather than purely physical, do you think that the best training might depend entirely on our mindset?

Marjaana (06:32)

Yeah.

Paul Laursen (06:48)

Probably, yeah. Yeah, it's ⁓ or whatever context that you're in too, right? So yeah, like I've got, you know, I've got an athlete that she's very focused and she's trying to be a world beater and she...

Paul Warloski (06:49)

Yeah.

Paul Laursen (07:04)

feels that she needs to do her sessions solo because she doesn't want to get any distractions. So in her context, solo training is right for her. ⁓ She does get her group training in the gym, but for her run training, ⁓ she's very precise. And for her mindset, like you said, Paul, like that's, it would be stressful for her if she had to necessarily ⁓

do the group sort of situation. But conversely, I know there's certain listeners that are out there like always, what are you talking about? Group training always, right? Like it makes the time go by so much faster and I can only train in a group. So I think it will very much be personality and objective context related ⁓ is my guess.

Marjaana (07:57)

I would also argue that sometimes ⁓ there is a physical benefit like...

Paul Laursen (08:03)

Yeah.

Marjaana (08:04)

group setting or friend setting can help you push one more or go just a little bit harder or just give you that little edge. And I'm not saying that you should do it all the time, but sometimes it can help you realize that you're a feeder than you think, that you can do more than you think.

And

Paul Laursen (08:33)

Totally. Yeah.

Marjaana (08:33)

⁓ I don't know how many times we've heard that Paul during their velocity sessions, like, wow, I had no idea that I had this in me. So it's, I don't think it's just mental or psychological benefit to train in a group, but also can make you realize how freaking strong you are and benefit physically too.

Paul Laursen (09:01)

No, that's a good point. I'm just thinking of an anecdote from, you know, Luke Evans is the ⁓ poster boy in, in Athletica is on the front page of Athletica. And he just switched from doing his solo swimming sessions to, he just joined a master's swim club and he's really feeling the benefit of that. Cause he's found a few people that can swim to his level. And it just, he just, he just felt like he's getting a little bit more out of those sessions now because he's just, there's people around him.

Marjaana (09:02)

Yeah.

Paul Warloski (09:22)

Hmm.

Paul Laursen (09:31)

So

yeah, I think there's probably a context for every decision that a person makes, but ⁓ I don't think there's a right or wrong answer. ⁓ it's worth considering, probably if you're training with a group, it's probably worth considering could there be any benefits of training solo, but likewise if you're just training solo, it could be also worth thinking to yourself, well, is there any potential benefit that I could get from

from training with a group in a different context. So.

Paul Warloski (10:06)

That's a really good segue to this next question, which is a little esoteric, it's, know, self-determination theory suggests that our needs for autonomy, competence and relatedness drive motivation and drive why we do things. In solo training, you get the autonomy. I can listen to whatever podcast I want to listen to. In groups, you get relatedness. What do you think matters more for long-term success or does that entirely depend on your context?

Paul Laursen (10:36)

So Paul, I think it's for me, what matters more for long-term

success. I think, I think getting a little bit of both, right? Like, again, you want that the autonomy of solo training and being able to do that is. Is, for sure. I need that in my own training. Like if I've got all of a sudden got a two hour window and I know I need to go and do any sort of session on the bike or whatever, like I need that autonomy to go and, to go and do that.

Marjaana (10:57)

.

Paul Laursen (11:04)

Likewise, in the relatedness part for group training, I know I get so much more out of my strength training session when Stefan is here and ⁓ we're G-ing each other up for like a maximal lift. Like, you know, I can't do the same amount of weight. I'm benching all these various different ⁓ movements way

Marjaana (11:05)

you ⁓

Paul Laursen (11:26)

more and hitting PBs, but I know it's because I don't want Stefan to get stronger than me.

Marjaana (11:28)

I'm sorry.

Paul Laursen (11:34)

There's, you know, I'm not gonna lie. There's just, there's an ego. There's a little ego Paul that's in there that's pushing me ⁓ to make sure Stefan doesn't beat me in any of these sorts of things, right? And I started, I started higher and he's coming in and he's starting to get, he's starting to get closer to my lift, my lift level right now. So I'm like, no, no, no, no.

Marjaana (11:44)

You

That's funny.

Okay, I'm gonna take over because that's, yes, in a group setting, when you think about like these big riding groups too, like this is what most people problem is, dudes riding together, they just like go way too hard. And how long can you do that?

Paul Warloski (12:04)

Okay. Okay.

Marjaana (12:17)

for like you're going to plateau when you always are tanking, it's just a little too hard. Right. ⁓ Don't get hurt there, Doing your lifting sessions.

Paul Laursen (12:23)

Yeah, totally. No, I know, know, I know. But back to the relatedness of the velocity

sessions too, I do love how velocity gamifies everything because no one really knows what absolute wattage everyone's on. But we can all get the points relative to our training zone, right?

Marjaana (12:41)

Mm-hmm.

Paul Laursen (12:45)

Training zones are pretty much automated. They're pretty much similar for every person that's there. And it's just a fun little game to, on any given day, MJ just does an amazing job of leading that for us and programming in the points. And we don't know what's coming, whether it's going to be blinded or whether it's how many, where they're going to get points or not, all these sorts of things. But it's just like, yeah, there's lots of fun that we have with our little group.

Marjaana (13:05)

Sometimes you don't get points.

Paul Laursen (13:14)

So there is that relatedness that ⁓ we're doing this sort of together.

Marjaana (13:20)

Mm-hmm.

Paul Warloski (13:21)

And

that's where the competence comes in too in velocity is that you're not competing on an unequal playing field. You all are working according to your zone. So you feel like you can actually accomplish the goal.

And I think that's a sense of competence that you are able to do the work and not get blown out by somebody who's got a much higher FTP.

Paul Laursen (13:43)

Totally.

Marjaana (13:44)

Yeah,

I was thinking about this question and I was thinking like Iron Man and like really long solo

⁓ racers like you are there alone. Sometimes you feel very alone. So if you always train in a group and you're used to pushing hard because you are in the group and you never do that by yourself on the training rides, the race day can be quite difficult. If, if you've never like done long solo rides.

Paul Laursen (14:04)

. you ⁓

Marjaana (14:26)

or long runs that

you always rely on that group to keep you going and motivated. So I would definitely like if you are someone who always have a training partner to try and do some of the rides by yourself. Yeah. Swim too, because swim you're really like you have to you have to control your

Paul Warloski (14:42)

Mm-hmm.

Paul Laursen (14:43)

Yeah, I'd agree. Ride or run, for sure. Or if you're open water swim,

long. Yeah. Definitely.

Marjaana (14:55)

your mind because you are there with

others, but somehow it just feels so alone because your head is underwater and like swimming, like Ironman race swimming can feel super lonely.

Paul Laursen (15:11)

Yeah. Well, you're in the washing machine, right? And you have to cope with your individualness in the washing machine of all others. And everyone's in the same boat.

Paul Warloski (15:12)

Really even with all the people all those people around you yeah

Marjaana (15:13)

Yeah, yeah. Isn't it funny?

Yeah. Yeah.

Paul Warloski (15:19)

Yeah.

Marjaana (15:26)

Yeah. You can't like talk. can't, right? You just, you're just really lonely.

Paul Laursen (15:26)

But it's, yeah, it does feel very alone when you're kind of out there in the. Nope.

Paul Warloski (15:34)

⁓

So the research shows or suggests that emotional social support works through self-efficacy, meaning that the support makes you believe that you can do it. And I think Marjaana, you were talking about that in Velocity. Does having someone believe in you actually change your physical capabilities? Yeah.

Marjaana (16:01)

heck yeah.

I remember when I was like really learning how to swim fast. I had a friend who was an Olympic level swim coach from South Africa and she was training her swimmer.

next to my lane and she would occasionally look at my technique and give me points. And one day she was doing my 50 meter time for me and I was just flying, just knowing that she was looking like my every stroke. So just having that support for sure. Like I'm sure you've experienced the same thing. Like when you have somebody, you know, paying attention, you can just push it just a little bit harder.

Paul Warloski (16:51)

Mm-hmm. And I think, again, that's what you bring to Velocity on Thursdays is that, you we keep coming back to Velocity, but it's really, and I've got another question about that as well, but it's really, you're pointing out the success that people have, and again, that comes back to the competence that people believe they can do it.

Marjaana (16:59)

Mm-hmm.

Paul Laursen (17:15)

And that's coaching at the end of the day, Paul. And that's why human coaches.

you know, yourselves

are so valued because that's what, like, and this comes back to the book I mentioned too, with Bruce Lipton's biology of belief, look at the title, biology of belief. So there's, you know, if someone believes in you, they are, there's something woo woo or whatever that's actually transferred to you, the individual that is, that allows you to execute. ⁓

You know, and there's this transfer of the coach's beliefs into your mind. And then what the mind can conceive and the heart believes the body will achieve is the old expression. And that's it gets done. Right. And this is. And you just hear this too, from athletes that after they finish their incredible race or whatever, their incredible feat, they are thanking those that made this happen.

Paul Warloski (17:54)

and you

Paul Laursen (18:16)

those that believed in them and those that trained them for that. So yeah, I think it's vital to have that connection and to, know, I guess it's yet to be seen whether a machine can transfer that belief to the individual yet as well. Of course, we have that in the AI coach. Don't know the answer to that, but I think the combination of the machine with the human is certainly going to be very powerful in the future.

Paul Warloski (18:46)

Interesting. You know, that is the difference between

just having a training plan and having a coach is that coach transfers their belief to the athlete. And the athlete then brings that into themselves and says, yes, I can handle this. I can do hard things. COVID forced everyone into solo training back in the day. I guess that wasn't that long ago, but the research says both approaches can work. So

How do you know whether someone thrives alone or needs others? that personal preference? Can somebody benefit from having both? Is it good to just be alone all the time?

Marjaana (19:34)

Wow, that's impossible to answer. I think it's so individual.

Paul Warloski (19:39)

Yeah.

Paul Laursen (19:41)

I agree and again remember I've had the privilege of coaching two Ironman champions and Andy and Kyle and both of them would have done a mix more but more solo I would say from the so for the Ironman context kind of like what MJ was saying like they were

Paul Warloski (19:53)

Mm-hmm.

Paul Laursen (20:01)

not shy about going out there and doing what they knew they had to do and what was in that plan. But there were certainly moments that would kind of break it up. And I would say it's almost an 80-20, an 80 % solo and a 20 % kind of group. And then, ⁓ again, if they've got a coach as well that's believing in them, it's probably possibly enough for that.

sweet spot of this balance. think always a little bit of both is probably going to be needed for optimal performance and progression. And then how much depends on that person's context and individualness as MJ said.

Paul Warloski (20:43)

We currently host the Thursday class on Velocity and many Athletica users are on Zwift for group rides. Do you think these online classes meet our need for group sessions or does it need to be in person?

Marjaana (21:00)

I would love to have some in-person sessions, right? Or training camp. That would be fun, wouldn't it?

Paul Warloski (21:04)

Mm-hmm.

Paul Laursen (21:09)

It

would be.

Yeah, and I think a hope that we will in the future.

Marjaana (21:15)

Yeah. But I don't, ⁓ I mean, like there are so many different individual contacts. we're living all over the world, like Athletica athletes, we're everywhere. somebody like as a mom, I didn't have a chance to go to all the group training sessions because of, you know, kids drop offs and all that.

and work schedule. I think it's, I don't know, it's really, sometimes it's really hard to get into in-person classes and training sessions. But I would definitely, if I can, I would definitely do a master swim squad because it's, you know, like, it's just much easier to rock up to a session when, you know, you have to be there at certain time and just make it part of a

A weekly schedule. Well, I like running. I just love to put my running shoes on and just go, right? Just go anywhere. You can do that anywhere. like swimming, you have to go to a pool and sometimes pool hours are limited. So why not sign up for a master swim swim club, even though the session might be different than what it is in Athletica. yeah, I think it just totally depends what you have available in your, in your

Paul Warloski (22:18)

Just go, yeah.

Marjaana (22:41)

little circle of life. Right.

Paul Laursen (22:45)

Totally. But again, back to the question around, are these velocity Zwift sessions, are they

you know, compensating that need for group sessions. And I think the answer for me is partially. It's like, know I'm getting, again, like we had just an epic velocity session last week, last Thursday. I just loved it. I even told Alison, my wife, after just how, ⁓ this was just a great one. love the group that I'm training with. But I would still say it's almost like there's, if there's, there would have been a little bit more.

had we actually been in the same building and the same room, there's just like a 20 % sort of maybe add on. think that human to human direct connection would have sort of been there. That's my gut feel. I don't know if that's right, but that's how I feel.

Marjaana (23:34)

Yeah.

Yeah, totally.

Paul Warloski (23:39)

Do you think that the definition of group training is going to change given these online training groups? And do you think the research findings are going to still apply? Or do think that they're going to be different because there's not the human to human contact?

Paul Laursen (23:57)

Good question. don't know. Possibly.

Paul Warloski (24:00)

Yeah.

Yeah, I'm curious because the online group still gives us that, you know, we still get to chat to talk with each other. We still get to cheer each other on. And there's still that social component to the group sessions online, less so in the Zwift sessions, although you can still, you know, put on, you know, Google Meet and you can still talk. ⁓

that way, but there's definitely less than a face-to-face. So I'm curious whether those findings will still apply.

Marjaana (24:41)

Do you run in-person sessions for your athletes?

Paul Warloski (24:46)

I do a couple of times during the summer, we'll get together, we'll do a group ride and we'll do that in Milwaukee and ride up the bike path and stop for coffee and have, you know, it's a social training, you know, zone two ride. It's fun to get a lot of my junior athletes there because they just chit or chatter and talk the whole time. And they're just, you know, and some of them are coming up from Illinois to Milwaukee. So it's, it's a lot of fun.

Paul Laursen (25:13)

Yeah, and I'm the same too. Summertime I will take a couple of the athletes with a coach in the community and we'll go out for an easy zone one, zone two ride. And ⁓ yeah, just to have that in person.

connection and it goes a long way.

Paul Warloski (25:31)

Yeah, and as a coach, I also get a chance to watch the athletes ride and their form and if there's any weird, you know, movements in their form so that it's like, you know, we probably need to do a bike fit and, get that in. You know, I had one athlete who would

do a lot of pedal, pedal, pedal, wait, pedal, pedal, pedal, wait, and then just stop. it's like, whoa, we need to correct that. So that's something that we got to work on. ⁓ So there's a value in that that I think that would have only come that I had a chance to ride with that person.

Marjaana (26:10)

Yeah, there is something that you can only see when you're in person. I think in person coaching is very valuable.

Paul Warloski (26:21)

It is, it's huge. It's huge. Do you think that training programs should be designed around somebody's dominant psychological needs rather than just their fitness goals? And I'm thinking of this in the context of one of my athletes who does a lot of his summer training in groups. And that's what his, because that's his...

psychological emotional need. It's kind of a weird way of putting it. But he loves he's this he wants the social element. That's his that's his driver. And and so we we adapt. And that's what he wants. And ⁓ there's a lot of value in that for him. So we adapt his training plan to be able to do two or three group rides or more a week.

Paul Laursen (27:14)

Yep, you answered your own question there, Paul. That's the right move. That's that individual's personality. That's what they enjoy. Happiness just goes so far. What's life about, right? You gotta ⁓ love what you're doing at the end of the day.

Paul Warloski (27:18)

Yeah.

Paul Laursen (27:34)

We have to try to be as happy as we can in each individual with their own each individual loves to the best of our abilities So yeah, I think you just you gotta get you gotta adapt with that You know, I mean the and the depending potentially on If they want to look at their you know, maybe it maybe they're super talented and they are potential world-beater and maybe they need to make a sacrifice for certain situations so there might be a context where they might have to give up something to get to

the bigger picture. But if it's just health and fun, then keep having fun.

Paul Warloski (28:11)

So Paul, Marjaana, anything else you want to add to this discussion of solo versus group training?

Marjaana (28:20)

Definitely come join us on Velocity, ⁓ especially if you find that you can't get your HIIT sessions done. ⁓ We'll have some fun and get your HIIT sessions. So come join us.

Paul Warloski (28:39)

It's a lot of fun.

Paul Laursen (28:39)

Yeah.

And I basically conclude with the general gist of I think what we spoke about, Paul, is that there's more than one way to kind of skin a cat with the whole thing. It's probably very individual experiment with getting a little bit of both, and it depends on the context. And yeah, and just. ⁓

For sure, join us on Velocity and see if that potentially works for you with the group.

Paul Warloski (29:11)

Yeah, it's definitely a balance and how what's important to you what your schedule dictates, you know, you might have a schedule that totally precludes doing any kind of group riding or running or swimming, but it totally depends on on your situation to create some balance.

Paul Laursen (29:31)

Absolutely.

Paul Warloski (29:32)

Thanks for listening

today to the Athletes Compass podcast. Take a moment now, subscribe, share, and let's keep navigating this endurance adventure together. Improve your training with the science-based training platform, Athletica, and join the conversation at the Athletica Forum. For Marjaana Rakai and Dr. Paul Laursen I'm Paul Warloski, and this has been the Athletes Compass podcast. Thank you so much for listening.