Foreign hello, welcome back to the Promoted Podcast.

I'm your host, Felicity Fury and I'm joined by the incredible Renee Wootton Tomlin.

We have got another wonderful episode for you today.

It's been a little while since we jumped on, so lots to catch up on and lots of updates.

I'm calling in from Gubby Gubby Country.

The beautiful sun Shanko.

So Wanya, hello and welcome, Renee.

Hello.

Where are you calling in from today?

You've been traveling all over the country over the last few weeks.

Where are you today?

Nagambi hello from Larrakia Country.

What a huge year it's been for both of us.

Yeah, 2025.

I feel like we have really wanted to be there for the Promoted Podcast audience, for our listeners and to keep sharing all of our lessons and our career moves and our mindset.

So I'm super excited to be back with everybody, Felic and I can't wait to get into today's topic with you.

So today's topic is so you've been redundant now.

What?

And this is something that's happened in my career.

It was actually my first grad job that I got made redundant from.

So I'll go into all of the details later.

But Renee, you've had an experience of this recently.

So Renee, you've been made redundant now.

What?

Tell us what's happened and where are you up to.

Yeah, first of all, I can't believe that you got a redundancy so early in your career.

I feel like that would have been so shocking.

I mean, it's shocking anyway when it does happen.

But early can be quite a hard one, I think just because your sense of self and your confidence is not as formed as when you're in your 30s and you're kind of thriving with your self identity and confidence.

So kudos to you, can't wait to hear about that story.

But yes, I got made redundant.

11th September will forever be drawn into my brain as the day that I first got made redundant in my career.

So maybe I've had a pretty good, you know, 15 year career where nothing happened and then kaboom.

It finally, it finally got me.

It was funny because I actually called some of my mentors when it happened like a day or two after the shock, initial shock passed and the first thing they said to me was like, congratulations and everybody should have two redundancies in their life.

It's great for personal growth.

And I was like, that is the silver lining here.

Nothing like toxic positivity.

So yeah, yeah, I don't know, I suppose I didn't kind of see it coming, which in hindsight is kind of a bit of a naivety, I guess on my behalf.

We did have a heads up from our organization maybe six weeks before redundancies came that they were coming and yeah, it just never occurred to me that it could have been me, which is kind of funny.

But yeah, it makes absolute sense in hindsight.

I work for a tech startup company and you know, their innate high risk and things don't always go to plan.

So they made the right move as far as I'm concerned, but certainly through a spanner in the works in terms of my mindset and where I was at.

Because I really did hope and dream to not only be a leader in this company, but potentially even work towards running it one day because I was so passionate about what they do and yeah, just a big believer in the technology and what we're trying to bring to life, which is essentially to decarbonize the aviation industry through sustainable aviation fields.

So pretty epic mission.

Something that I really resonate with even today post redundancy and yeah, I guess like the aftermath and I think that this is really what I want to focus on today is what comes after redundancy because I think it can be a real opportunity for a negative spiral in terms of your mindset, your identity, your self worth, all those things.

And I definitely experience that as well.

I think that I have an incredibly strong mindset generally.

So whilst I had those feelings, I was kind of quick to move through them because at the end of the day when you're made redundant, it really has nothing to do with you.

It has everything to do with the business needs.

So if you're fired, that's obviously a different situation.

But being made redundant just means potentially that there has been a change in the business requirements and you know, your role there is not their priority anymore.

And that's okay.

So first of all, didn't take it personally, um, which is hard not to do because it does feel like you've just been sideswiped and your life just changes all of a sudden.

So I'll take you back.

It was a Thursday morning.

I was on the phone at 6am in the morning doing my normal weekly one on one with my manager and five minutes later I was unemployed and told to shut my laptop.

So it was quite shocking.

The first thing I did, I went and sat on my couch and I just like process it.

I was like, oh my God, I'm unemployed.

Holy shit.

Excuse the language.

And I Think there was two feelings.

It was like relief and then it was, yeah, the impending doom of like, oh my God, what do I do now?

So first thing I did when my husband got home is I booked a trip away because prior to being made redundant the week before, I was literally hanging on by like, you know, a nail in terms of just feeling fatigued, getting close to burnout, and really just needing to get out of the routine that I was in and create a bit of space for my mindset to get more healthy.

And yeah, so as soon as Alex, my husband, came home, I was like, right, we are taking this trip because he coincidentally had two weeks of leave coming up.

So it was just like the perfect timing always go away.

Exactly.

And it was exactly the right thing to do.

I think.

I think there's something to be said for just making space and letting your brain kind of run through all of the scenarios of I can't believe this just happened to me.

What am I going to do next?

Who am I and what do I really want?

Also something to be said for when you have built your career up to the point where I'm now an executive level and I've got numerous different skills because of the fact that I've done engineering and flying and worked in different businesses.

To an extent, I kind of like, God, the world's my wooster.

How do you narrow this down and how do I actually figure out what's for me?

I didn't know how to answer all those things, so I actually called Felicity my bestie and co host.

And you put me in touch with a coach who has really helped me figure out my next step.

So I've kind of applied for a few different roles, but in the meantime been really focused on who am I, what is the next chapter of Renee and what do I actually want now that I've got all this freedom to actually think about it, to rest, to reset, what makes me tick, what excites me and makes me want to get out of bed again.

And I think that I've now, you know, I'm now two months on, it was the 11th of September and we're now nearly close to the 11th of November.

Right.

So, yeah, nearly two months later.

I have a really clear path.

About two weeks ago I started, you know, really fixating on again committing to almost full time work again, just working for myself and building a business.

So, Felicity, I'm gonna, I'm gonna throw back to you.

What was your experience and what did you do when you went through your.

Own redundancy I think the hardest thing about it is that it's.

It's something that you don't choose.

And I think when it comes to having a career plan or an intention for your career, they're things that you want to choose.

And I don't know about you, Renee, but I'm usually someone who deliberately pick.

Selects roles based on where I want to go or I think I want to go.

And I love having a plan and a strategy in place.

And so I think it can be.

There is definitely that shock factor of, wow, this is not what I expected.

And so I think that's where those plans can come back into play really well, where you do have that idea or that goal, that vision.

And also I think it's a really healthy time to question those things as well.

Okay, well, I thought that because I was in this role, is that what I really want to do?

So for me, I was a grad.

I was a structural engineer.

I'd been out of uni, I think, for about 18 months or so.

So really, really fresh.

And it was the global financial crisis.

So one of the challenges at that time was that lots of people were getting made redundant.

I was working for a consultancy that mainly worked on big mining projects.

So a lot of those, yeah, didn't come to fruition.

And there was similar, actually.

There was quite a few people getting made redundant.

I didn't think it would happen to me.

They'd done these big town halls where they're saying, I remember the G at Queensland got up and said, I've been made on it five times.

So what happens to you?

Kind of like, don't worry about it.

Just par for the course.

I was like, who is this guy?

What is he talking about?

Sounds awful.

Yeah.

What kind of industry is this?

So I was like, that's cool.

What happened to me?

And I thought as well, because I was on, like, the grad committee, I was doing some, like, extracurricular stuff without the company.

I thought maybe that would give me a little boost to sort of, you know, help me out.

I went on holidays to Japan for two weeks and I came back and I thought it was a bit weird that someone had taken over all my projects.

But I thought, oh, maybe because I was on leave, that's what was happening.

And my boss at the time took me to coffee and was like, look, we don't know what's going to happen today, but it's a very awkward conversation.

She said, you might get made redundant or you might need to move to Darwin.

And I was like, what?

Like, what are you talking about?

I was like, there's no HR there.

It was just kind of like a casual chat.

Like she was doing me a favor to kind of give me the heads up.

But me, I was panicking.

I was like, what's going on?

And then I got the meeting popped in the diary for lunchtime.

I remember I was sort of like being a little brat because I was on my lunch break and I was like, I'm on a lunch break.

So it's a scheduled hour lunch break.

I'll get like, I'll come back when I will come back.

Because I knew what the conversation was going to be and I was kind of avoiding it.

So, yeah, sat down with the gm, I think it was, and hr And I remember I was wearing this dress that was so tight, and I was like, I mean, just come back from holidays.

I've eaten a lot of delicious Japanese food.

And I was like, sobbing, like, you know, like the.

Like, can't breathe.

Stop.

And my dress was so tight.

I was like, this was the worst dress to wear today.

So it was.

I was a hot mess.

And it was literally, you know, this is like in the office.

So, you know, you got to pack up your things.

You can't, you know, pack up your desk.

That's it.

Give us your pass.

See you later.

So you couldn't really get to say goodbye to anyone.

They didn't really want us talking about the redundancy.

And off I went.

So I remember being super depressed and I'm like, at the time, super Risk Adverse person, where I.

All throughout uni, even though when I was doing work experience, I also had my job at Woolies, so I do Woolies on the weekends that I had a backup plan.

Like, I.

Right.

I didn't even know this about you.

I quit.

Yeah, I quit the Woolies job.

So, you know, because I'm all in on my engineering career.

So I didn't even have a backup plan or I'd never even considered what would I do if I didn't have this job because it didn't really seem like a possibility.

So, yeah, I remember being super depressed, sitting on my bean bag and watching a lot of movies in my lounge room for some time and wasn't really sure what to do.

So I applied for a bunch of roles and I actually got offered a role that was similar.

It was like in Designs, but it was Designing Highways.

And it was like a little bit less pay, but kind of similar.

Or I got this opportunity, which was Brisbane City Council and It was about 20 grand less than what I was on.

But I saw that I could be a project manager and I could work in this major projects office and it was something that was quite different.

So it actually was fantastic to get this opportunity and I only.

It took me about maybe like two to three months to try to find a job.

It was quite tricky because of the global financial crisis situation, but it worked out for the best because that was a real turning point in my career to go get this project management experience.

But actually, as you're sharing, I think there's actually been two other opportunities that I've got made redundant.

So I'm almost up to five.

So there's.

The one was actually my contract ended in my last corporate role and it kind of didn't get renewed.

That was kind of like getting made redundant and then also running my own business and then the business getting wound up.

So essentially making myself redundant because we closed the business.

And that was a really tricky one because we had a team of seven, including us co founders and we also had to make our team redundant.

So that was, I think the first time that you have to let someone go, you don't forget it.

It's a really hard conversation to have.

So, yeah, I've been on both sides but I think it's such a.

Actually it's a real.

While it's really challenging and while you might not choose it, I think it's a really almost sacred time to just like really pause and just like take st. Because those opportunities don't often come up.

Usually we just go, go, go in the thick of it and I think it's great to really, as hard as it is, appreciate that time.

Absolutely.

I guess then coming back to how you redefine what you do next, like what was your mindset and also how has that made you more resilient?

I guess I think that at that time it was particularly.

Yeah, it was a particularly tricky time.

About six months earlier, my dad had passed away.

So I think it was quite personally a challenging time as well because that was still quite new.

I was 22 years old, so I was very young and I think it did have, you know, there was really that fork in the road of, you know, do I keep going down this path in design and do, you know, a bit more of the same, get a bit similar experience.

It was a, you know, I think it was like a global consultancy or do I go down this path with counsel?

And I remember at the time people saying, you know, not positive things about Local council.

And I actually think it was like such a good choice because the experience was different and that's why I chose it in that moment, because I thought, this seems like a bit of a different opportunity.

I'm not sure if I'm going to get this again, particularly at this early stage of my career.

And I wasn't going back in, I wasn't going into a grad program because a lot of the other roles were those grad program roles where this was outside of that.

So it gave me that chance to step ahead.

So I think, like, I wasn't really at the time someone who, like, for me, my career aspirations were like be a team leader of an engineering team.

I didn't have big aspirations.

I didn't think very highly of myself.

I would say I was quite constrained in the workplace because I wasn't sure of myself.

So I think it did help me see that my boss who chose me for this role, she obviously chose me because she thought I could do it.

And it was a stretch.

I walked into that job and I had at 22, over $20 million worth of projects, one project finished.

Then at 23, I had $45 million worth of projects, which you probably heard me mentioned before on this podcast.

And so, yeah, my colleague was like, well, if she didn't think you could do it, she wouldn't have given it to you.

So it definitely gave me that confidence boost and I think really got me out of that environment that I even had for myself of I'm this grad engineer.

What could I do to, oh, wow, I could run these projects.

This is super cool.

So it was a formative time.

I think the resilience even came from the responsibility that I was given.

So yeah, has it been?

I mean, I feel like you're a resilience person, resilient person anyway, Renee.

But has it helped shape your resilience or has it challenged any assumptions that you might have had about yourself in terms of resilience?

So that sounds like a really positive outcome from a redundancy.

And I think that's what we want to try and emphasize in this conversation is like, redundancy can actually be the best thing for you.

After the initial shock, of course.

Yes.

To answer your question, Felicity, it has absolutely challenged my perception of myself, my mindset and my self belief.

So for years I've always questioned the idea of becoming my own boss and building my own business.

And I really never knew what I could do.

And for the first time ever in my life, stepping out of this role and being in the abyss and having a blank canvas to draw my own future.

It's the first time that I've ever had this experience.

Like, you've mentioned that you've had this moment, you know, several times now in your career, just by the nature of what you've dabbled in.

And I would say in my career, I've always had my next step ready to go.

So, you know, I've always planned six to nine months ahead of when I think that I'm done in a job.

I will then, you know, leave that kind of period of time to start planning my next move.

And, I mean, in a way, there's still that level of like, all right, what will I do next and what do I want to do next?

And I would say, actually the pivot into sustainable aviation fuel, which landed me the job with Lanzajet, my previous employer, was one of those moments where I was like, what am I going to do next?

And again, I got advice.

I sat down and had some really, like, you know, robust conversations with some of my mentors, and it just seemed like the right next step.

So, you know, in this experience, again, you know, I've just built all of this incredible industry knowledge.

It's something I'm really passionate about.

So I think, you know, the path to remain in sustainable aviation fuel, for me, makes a lot of sense.

And that took, you know, really sitting down with myself and going, am I really enjoying this?

Like, do I want to keep going down this road, or do I need to pivot again?

And if I'm going to pivot, what would that even remotely look like?

So that's challenged.

What gets me out of bed in the morning and, you know, I've really locked in again on, no, it's definitely this industry.

I love this industry.

The next thing is, this might sound a little bit arrogant, and I don't mean it to sound that way, but I think when you go through so many different jobs, like I have, every time I've stepped into a new job, it's been almost a completely new field.

It's still within aviation most of the time.

But, for example, I started my career in engineering, then I went into flight operations, then I went into the airline loyalty programs, Then I went into business development for a tech startup.

Then I went into commercial strategy, project engineering, new market development.

And each of these roles has been in a completely different part of aviation.

It's been in, you know, avionics upgrades for military simulators.

It's been developing a business case to the Australian Government to build a new airport in Sydney.

It's been, you know, building relationships and thought leadership around the development of renewable fuels industry across the globe.

Like all of these roles and the areas of expertise that I've worked in have all been different every time I've taken a new job.

So what's kind of grown within me is a real sense of self confidence.

And this is why I want you to be really clear that this isn't arrogance, it's actually self confidence.

It's this proven ability to myself that no matter what job I've taken, I've succeeded.

And what does success look like?

That means meeting my obligations in that role, hitting my targets, getting validated by my managers.

And because I've done that, I'm going to say 10 or 11 times now through different jobs in the last 15 years, now I know and trust myself that when I walk into a new area that I don't understand, I really trust myself to be able to deliver.

So that has been a phenomenal learning for me.

Out the other side of this redundancy felicity is every time I've taken a new job, it's scared the living daylights out of me.

It's really been a real test of my self confidence, my self worth and backing myself.

And when I got the job at LanzaJet, I was really nervous to take on that role because it was in a new field and when I got the job at Quantum in First Nations Engagement, that I was really nervous because it was my first exec role and I'd never worked in people strategy.

Western Sydney Airport was the first time I stepped into commercial strategy in an, in an airport.

It's like every job has really challenged my sense of knowledge, my self worth, and it's questioned my capability, I guess, until I've gone in and succeeded.

So with all of that context, it's made me realize I can do anything I put my mind to, which is huge.

Yeah.

I'm so excited.

Yay.

So good.

I think that's a real difference.

Where mine was so early and, you know, grad role, you're like, what the heck is work and engineering and, and that kind of thing?

It was really just like, oh my gosh, I just need to get a job.

Like, that was kind of where I was at.

And I mean, I, I was also, you know, I think it was like living with my boyfriend and my rent was 100 bucks a week, so I didn't really have any like major financial commitments and at like 22.

So it was a completely different Life stage.

But I think that's really powerful, Renee.

And there's another piece in there that I think is also important that a lot of people miss.

And I, I would say this is probably one of the most common things I get asked when I do speaking is about mentors.

So you had those people that you could call up.

And that's something I didn't have when I got made redundant because I was so early in my career, I hadn't established that network.

There was literally, I don't recall calling anyone to say, hey, this has just happened to me.

So I felt very isolated and really alone.

I was on the women engineering committee, so there's a contacts I had at different places like that.

But I think what also is really powerful is you've got those sounding boards that you can call, you can check in on and ask those questions and also those people that can remind you who you are in those challenging times.

Absolutely.

I couldn't agree more.

And I wouldn't be here without mentors.

I think that's something else to really call out is it takes a village to raise a professional, raise a child and a professional.

So, yeah, at no point have I ever made any pivots in my career without a lot of support.

That's no different now.

And I think that that's actually probably one of the biggest call outs is when you go through a redundancy, go and speak with people that really have your back or have experience in helping people navigate life changes.

And for me, that's an executive coach this time around.

But it's also numerous other mentors that I've collected along the way.

And yeah, so I think a couple of things I'm navigating now, the transition to becoming my own boss.

That's what's next for me following redundancy.

I'm really excited to build this business.

It is in the sustainable aviation fuel industry.

I'm not ready to publicly, you know, broadcast what it is just yet.

I've got quite a lot of work to do, probably three to four months of work to actually be ready to publicly launch.

So don't worry, listeners, you'll be the first to hear about it once it's ready.

But one question that I get a lot is like, how do you build a business?

So I think that might be another topic for discussion in the future.

Felicity.

But yeah, I, I am really loving what I'm doing.

I feel really well supported and if anything, I think this is the push that I needed to become my own boss.

So thank you for the redundancy and, you know, helping me grow into the person that I've always dreamed of becoming, which is a person and that gets to run their own business.

So good.

I feel like it's happening live.

Like, this is real life, guys.

Like, we're not making this stuff up.

Like, this is, you know, 2025.

What's happening.

I do wonder if we'll look back in many years, Renee, and go, oh, my gosh, remember that?

Remember that?

Because I feel like it's.

My goal for the year was to be.

For it to be a breakthrough year.

And we did laugh on the phone the other day saying, like, I feel like it's been a breakdown year.

Are you going to break down?

We have breakthrough, as I've heard people say.

So there has been a lot of twists and turns this year, many more that I know that we'll be revealing over the next episodes.

There's been some personal challenges that I've experienced, which I'm very open to sharing about some of those challenges.

So I think they'll be in some upcoming episodes.

Always, I feel like it's best to have it when your ideas are ready and formulated that can make a difference.

I feel like I've kind of been in the mess of it a lot this year, so I feel like coming soon and also so excited to be on this journey with you live.

Renee, I think what, you know, you've identified is you've got this goal, you've got this vision, you've got this passion, and then you've also got that support network around you.

You don't have the what and the how exactly worked out, but those two things in place, I feel like you can figure out anything.

And that's certainly my experience when I was doing power of engineering.

Hey, I've got this goal, this vision.

Okay, let's get people around us.

I don't know how to do it, but we'll figure it out and find a way.

And I think engineers are also very good at that.

So you're in the perfect place.

And I cannot wait to hear how the rest of this journey goes in what's next after your redundancy.

Thank you for being so open, Renee, and sharing your story today.

Absolutely.

And I couldn't do it without amazing friends like you.

So thank you for being there for me through what has been a very turbulent 2025 live.

Bye for now.

Very good.

Bye for now.