PJ Ellis (00:38)

So today's episode is a special one because we're joined by two brilliant young founders who are both carving their own paths and doing it dare I say with courage Creativity and a whole lot of grit Rhiannon and Abby, This is gonna be an episode that I hope is all about what it really looks like to build

in your 20s, the lessons, the wobble moments, the breakthroughs, the realities, all that. ⁓ So let's go on with it. How are you both?

Rhiannon (01:01)

you Okay.

Yeah, good thank you.

Abbi Evans (01:10)

Yeah, good. Thank you. How are you?

PJ Ellis (01:12)

very well. Shall we just dig

straight into it? Rhiannon, tell me a little bit more about Rhiannon Fry What are you all about? What you doing?

Rhiannon (01:20)

So I'm doing social media marketing for health and fitness based businesses, mainly within my area at the moment until I can scale a bit bigger. yeah, social media marketing as a whole.

PJ Ellis (01:34)

Cool, and what about you, Abby?

Abbi Evans (01:36)

⁓ So I run Sentari where I design websites that are built around what people need, not just how they look. And I also come from a rugby background so my approach is a lot about teamwork and clarity and making things easy to use at the same time.

PJ Ellis (01:52)

Thank you,

I've looked at both of your journeys and wow, it takes me back. Cause when I was your age, I mean, I didn't even know how to spell my name and it's just PJ, let alone to set up a business. Abby, Tell me a little bit about the backstory. are you still playing rugby?

Abbi Evans (02:03)

Thank

Yes, yeah, still got training tonight, so yeah. Yeah, so I played for Cheltenham Tigers in the championship and then I've just joined Leicester Tigers in the premiership for their under 23 team. So yeah, it's intense, but it's really good. obviously building a business around that, it helps a lot because I can blend it into my own time schedule and make it work for me, which is obviously very important with sports. So yeah.

PJ Ellis (02:10)

Pretty high level, isn't it?

Rhiannon (02:14)

you

Abbi Evans (02:37)

It's been tricky balancing it, but we've got to a point now where everything's sort of falling into place nicely, so keep building.

PJ Ellis (02:46)

And

I suppose your journey, Rhiannon, probably not through rugby, but I know it's very sort of health and fitness sort of focus, the stuff that you do. And also you turned down a space at a unit in you. So you decided to avoid that further education and get straight into business, you?

Rhiannon (03:03)

Yeah, I was looking at doing either physio or sports health and exercise science and I just decided it wasn't the right path for me to be honest. All my friends were like really excited about going to uni and I just wasn't. So I knew something just, it wasn't worth spending all that money for something that didn't feel was going to benefit me. So yeah, I deferred my place and then ended up completely withdrawing this year.

Andy (03:30)

So can I ask you both a question? I'll come to you each in turn. So what's it like on the 20th of November, 2025, running your own business? So I'll come to you first, Abby. How's it going? What you're thinking about? What's going on in the market for you?

Abbi Evans (03:45)

Yeah.

I mean it's great because there's obviously so many tools now that you can use that really help you get going but yeah I think to be honest I found it quite hard in terms of knowing how to set up a business like I knew what I wanted to do I had the skills to do what I wanted to do but no one really tells you how to get started with it like of course you've got to buy a domain or whatever for your website but how do you actually file your accounts and all of that sort of thing and I've done so I've done business since year seven.

And I started A Levels, wasn't for me, dropped out and did an apprenticeship in digital marketing. But even in that, you don't learn how to build a business, you learn

Rhiannon (04:27)

you

Abbi Evans (04:28)

how to be good in someone else's business. So yeah, that was the hardest bit for me was wrapping my head around that, but the actual doing the job, I love it.

Andy (04:38)

Brilliant. What about you, Rhiannon?

Rhiannon (04:40)

Yeah, I agree completely. I did business A level and yeah, you're right. You taught how to be within someone else's business really. You're not taught how to build your own and the actual steps that it takes to build your own business. And I think right now that and

marketing myself were probably the two hardest things.

Andy (04:59)

Great. Okay. Well, we've, hopefully in January, we've got the Deputy Minister for Education, Saqib Bharti, who's the MP in Meriden coming on the show. And what we want to talk to him about, because it's come up a couple of times, the curriculum, and I've got two, two lads, 18, 15, and there's definitely things they'd rather be doing than going to school. If you could change something about schooling, what would it be and why? I'll come to you first, Rhiannon.

Rhiannon (05:25)

⁓

I think yeah definitely more life skills, more how to use your own money, how to look after your own money, that kind of thing, how to set up a business if that's what you want to do, just more personal things to do with life in general as opposed to how to pass a test.

Abbi Evans (05:44)

Yeah. So actually in school we had life lessons, but they never really seemed to life. So it was all the basics, but you don't learn how to do your taxes or how to even like simple things that maybe not run your own business. But like you said, learning how to manage your own money and things like that, where you kind of leave school and you're just left to deal with it. And I think that's why so many people

don't know how to deal with that sort of thing until they're in their 20s, 30s, 40s because you don't get taught it. So if you can get taught that from a young age, it's going to put so many people on the front foot when they leave school to actually build a good life for themselves.

Andy (06:23)

So I'm really curious because actually, Rhiannon, you were going to go to university and decided not to. Abby, you went a different direction on an education perspective. What was it like, because we're parents, you're daughters, what was it like when you were thinking about that? what were the conversations, who did you turn to for those kinds of conversations to make those big decisions? Rhiannon,

Rhiannon (06:29)

Yeah.

Yeah, I mean talking to my parents they definitely preferred the idea of me going to uni. think it was the easier option but they that's the route they went down, that's the route they know, that's the route that they think would be more successful so I think that was their preference but they were happy with what I wanted to do and they were supportive of what I wanted to do. But also talking to friends and understanding kind of

why they wanted to go to uni, the fact that they had job ideas that they wanted to do that needed a degree and then I was thinking well why am I doing a uni degree if it's not actually going to further me anywhere and get to where I want to go in the future. So that was kind of the conversations that I was having.

Abbi Evans (07:27)

Yeah, so mine happened a little bit earlier than uni. think my parents always kind of knew I wasn't going to go that far in education just because I'm not really a... I'm a hands-on person. I want to learn whilst I'm doing rather than reading from a book. yeah, I was in sixth form and I actually spoke to my tutor first. was doing quite well but I wasn't really enjoying going to the lessons. And then I came home, spoke to my mum and dad and

My mum wasn't too keen at first at the idea of me dropping out basically. But yeah, she got on board when she realised I had a plan and I'd actually thought it through properly and went from there. But it's hard now seeing your friends in uni and they feel like they're at sort of a different stage in their lives. I feel like in a way I've matured a bit faster than some of my friends and that's, you know, it does leave a bit of a gap as you're growing up going through such a stage of...

Rhiannon (08:18)

you

Abbi Evans (08:22)

you know, coming out with your teenage years, going

Rhiannon (08:23)

you

Abbi Evans (08:23)

into your twenties, that sort of thing. it's, yeah, wins and losses.

PJ Ellis (08:29)

Yeah, I love that. Talking of wins and losses, ⁓ I think you've banged on in relation to that financial intelligence. Those life lessons, I certainly didn't have them taught to me at school back in the day when it was black and white and the wheels were square and all that sort of stuff. And equally, even now sometimes you look for help as to how to set this up, set that up, and it's not that clear. We talk a lot.

Abbi Evans (08:31)

Yeah.

Rhiannon (08:35)

you

PJ Ellis (08:54)

on this part about resilience and it doesn't necessarily mean to be all about massive moments. It could just be day-to-day stuff. Rhiannon, what what does it look like resilience for you day-to-day? What are you finding tough? What do you have to do to get through?

Rhiannon (09:07)

I find motivation quite hard to come by sometimes and giving myself the space to kind of force motivation and force my productivity but in a way that I know works for me. So I know that if I start doing something and I give up because I find it too hard, I'll then struggle to come back to it. So I know that I've got to just sit through a bit of pain so that then...

I find it easier to come back to next time. So I think resilience is something that I kind of force upon myself and kind of really kind of push myself to keep going a lot.

PJ Ellis (09:47)

You know you say you find yourself that space to sort of sit through the pain. Is there anything particularly you do when you feel that? Do you go for a walk? Do you exercise? Is there any sort of tips that you can give to people because I need them?

Rhiannon (10:00)

If I'm, like obviously I work from home a lot, if I'm working from home and struggling, I'll either move to somewhere else in the house and work, or I'll take myself to a coffee shop and work from a coffee shop instead if I'm finding that I've got some sort of like mental block. I just move location basically.

PJ Ellis (10:18)

That is a great piece of advice mate. know what Andy nearly gave that to me earlier on because I've been stuck in this little podcast studio This is my ten-year-old daughter's old skincare routine room and I saw one of your social media posts and you're in like a Starbucks or a coffee shop Rihanna And that's what I used to do. What about you Abby? You got that

Rhiannon (10:36)

Yeah.

PJ Ellis (10:38)

I know you've got your sport, you've got your kickboxing. What do you do when you feel a little bit stuck?

Abbi Evans (10:43)

Yeah, so like

Rhiannon (10:43)

you

Abbi Evans (10:44)

you said, think sport definitely helps. So I started kickboxing when I was six and I lived out in Qatar and that was, that's definitely helped me growing up because you you're put in a situation where you don't really want to be, but you have to fight through it. So that definitely transfers a lot into what I'm doing now. But I think resilience, it's a hard one sometimes because like you said, you have to push your way through things that you don't really want to do to get to the fun bit.

So like the accounting and stuff, I've never been like a numbers person really. But that's something I've had to force myself to learn and go actually, no, I need to learn to do that so that I can enjoy the actual building of the websites that I want to do. But I found the hardest part so far is actually proving that you're just as good as someone else at a young age and like marketing myself so that I don't look too young so that people don't trust me.

Because trust is a hard thing to come by sometimes, especially in business. And building that trust with someone when you're telling them you're only 19 and you've just started a business and they've got to like take that leap of faith, I guess, to trust that you are good enough. That's sort of been the hardest bit to push through and go actually no, I know I can do it. So I just need to keep working.

Andy (11:57)

It's

funny in life, isn't it? When you're young, you want to be older. When you're old, you to be younger. find the right balance.

Abbi Evans (12:01)

Yeah.

Andy (12:05)

I think there's research that when things get hard, 80, 90 % of people stop and don't go back to it. And the 10%, 15 % who keep on going tend to be the ones who get there first or who win out.

And it's easier said than done at times, isn't it? Cause it can be really frustrating. So I'm, question for me is how did you end up deciding to do what you do in your businesses? So, you you could have done lots of different things within marketing services. So how did you end up with the niches or the specific areas of focus that you've actually got? And I'll come to you first, Abby, if that's okay.

Rhiannon (12:25)

So. .

Abbi Evans (12:45)

Yeah, so I did my apprenticeship in digital marketing in general. So I got to do bit of everything. I was quite fortunate that I was in that position. So I did the social ads and Google ads and websites and all of that. And then when I did pass my exam, I was at the point where I was actually enjoying the technical side of it a lot more. So I sat down with my boss at the time and we had to speak about

what I'd like to do in the future and it came down to the point where I really enjoy websites. Seeing it all come together from the start of it literally being an idea and at the end it's a fully functioning thing that people are going to use day in day out. I don't know, it's just a bit of a spark and I just really enjoy seeing that process come to life so that was what persuaded me to start in this year.

Andy (13:35)

So let's take a run on.

Rhiannon (13:36)

Yeah, I think for me, I was looking for alternatives to uni, looking for something that didn't kind of tie me down, something that I had a bit of freedom, creative freedom and actually physical freedom with where I could work, when I could work. And I came across a course for like an online course for social media marketing to become a freelancer.

So I looked into that, I saw how big of a growing opportunity social media is at the moment for businesses and how important it is for newer businesses and like most businesses in the world today to have a form of social media presence. And I thought this is a real opportunity and that's kind of what I went for.

PJ Ellis (14:17)

that. both of your parents in business Rhiannon?

Rhiannon (14:20)

Well, my mum's a freelancer and my dad works for a business, yes.

PJ Ellis (14:26)

Okay, and what about you Abbie? Have they got their own business or?

Abbi Evans (14:29)

Dad's had a couple in the past I think but as of right now they both work for companies so yeah but dad's been able to help me with a bit of the setting up processes definitely made a big difference.

PJ Ellis (14:40)

because I'm really conscious of how I inspire my children in how I do things, not necessarily how I model my parenting, but what I do as a job. This upward comparison of social media and life, you're always looking for inspiration. Who inspired you then to set your business up so early, Abi, would you say? Is there anyone in particular?

Abbi Evans (14:45)

Mm.

I wouldn't say it's a person, it was more the reality of the sports that I do because being a female rugby player you don't get paid really unless you're playing for England or you're performing really well in the premiership. So I know a lot of girls now that play in the premiership on volunteer contracts so sometimes they're not even getting expenses paid to travel to trade in and that sort of thing and it is a full-time job.

My sort of process was that if I do want to go that far with my rugby eventually, which I do, then I need to have something that works alongside that rather than against it. And I found that doing my apprenticeship, it was obviously a nine to five and going straight from there and traveling two hours, two and a half hours to training, it just wasn't sustainable for me. So yeah, it was that that pushed me more than someone.

PJ Ellis (15:57)

Who gave you your apprenticeship? Where was that?

Abbi Evans (15:59)

That was at Code Break in Shoesbury. So, yeah, marketing agency. I learnt a lot there, yeah.

PJ Ellis (16:02)

I fair play.

people honestly, businesses giving young people opportunities, fair play. And you got a distinction in that I believe. Black belt, rugby player, distinction. You're making me feel quite inferior here to be fair. Rihanna, what about you? Any inspirational character in your life that made you set up business? I mean, it's a massive thing that you're doing here. You know, it's really, really, it's brave, it's exciting.

Abbi Evans (16:11)

Mm.

Yes, yeah.

Rhiannon (16:19)

Yeah.

PJ Ellis (16:33)

But it's risky as well, know? It's not an easy thing to do.

Rhiannon (16:37)

Yeah, think, I don't think there was necessarily a massive role model. think obviously my mum being a freelancer helped see that it was possible to me. But I think a lot of it was just knowing that I didn't want to work for someone. I wanted to...

to have that freedom. A lot of it is about having that freedom of being able to work when I want So I think a lot of it was just deciding, this is the only real path that gives me those options. And so I took it. I obviously had the backup of the idea of going to uni a year later if I didn't like it. So I just took that risk.

PJ Ellis (17:15)

You went to the same school as my boys at, Strictly? Yeah, Yeah, good school.

Rhiannon (17:18)

Yeah, yes, for A-levels.

Yeah, I really enjoyed it, yeah.

PJ Ellis (17:23)

Business, biology and PE I believe. There we go, set you straight up for social media marketing mate, I love that. Absolutely love it.

Rhiannon (17:26)

Mm-hmm.

You

Andy (17:33)

So question for me. So I think you both, talked about convincing people about what you can do. So if your prospective customers are listening to this, we'll get it out there. We'll make sure it's in front of them. And we all need a hand. We all need lifting up, irrespective of who you are, what you do, what age you are. All of us need help. So to get a break from people, what...

What do people need to know about you and your generation, younger people who are trying to make it in the business world, which is full of old fogies like us. Why should you be given a chance? What is it about you and what you can bring that will make our world, our business is a better place? Abby, I'll come to you first.

Abbi Evans (18:22)

Yeah, I think first of all, like, obviously being the ages we are, we've grown up with technology. I don't really remember a time in my life where I didn't have an iPad or something like that that was in front of me. So I'm constantly automatically keeping up with the newest technology, the newest apps, like things like that. It's not really something that's ever off of your radar. So that already puts you in a good position to move forward and be ahead of

everything in the market. So that's a good positive. But then also, I think young people have a bit of a fire in ourselves at the moment. I think it's quite a tough world to go into at the moment with the cost of things. And I think everyone's so charged up to make an impact and to leave an impact on other people. I know for me personally, like,

This business isn't just for me, it's to help others and to give them a service and a product that's going to change something for them, not just be a bit of money in my pocket. yeah, I think the trust comes from knowing someone rather than assuming you know someone.

Andy (19:31)

Great. Great. Rhiannon?

Rhiannon (19:32)

I think for me, yeah, we're social media natives. Like, the age that we're at, we've always had social media and technology and everything like that constantly around us. We know it inside and out. And also, I think the fact that we have taken this leap so early on shows that we know what we want and we know that we're here to put in that effort and to show that we are good enough to do that and that we are capable and that we are confident in.

in our abilities to improve and grow.

Andy (20:04)

I love both those answers. Right. I'm going to, a bit of tough love for here for me, me and PJ. So if you've looked at any of our socials to do with a podcast, right. I don't know if you have, right. But if you have, right. Put your tin hat on PJ, right. Give us some feedback. What do you think we could be doing better if you've had a chance to have a look? I'll continue first, Rhiannon.

Abbi Evans (20:05)

Yeah.

PJ Ellis (20:25)

Right, I'm getting out of this conversation, I'm leaving.

Andy (20:31)

How, can we do better? There's always lots of stuff.

Rhiannon (20:34)

If I'm honest, I've only looked at your LinkedIn and I've seen that you're very, very active on LinkedIn. LinkedIn just appreciates constant activity, doesn't it? So I think you're doing very well on LinkedIn, but I haven't seen any other socials. I haven't looked into them.

PJ Ellis (20:49)

that might lead Abby into a natural answer here. And I'll come back to that, Nithri Anand.

Abbi Evans (20:54)

Yeah,

say just spreading content more across all of the socials because your LinkedIn is something that comes up for most people in any sort of business because, you know, the content you're producing, it's going to help any sort of business owner or even people that are in business and, you know, need a bit of advice or something like that. Whereas if I go on to Instagram or something like that, maybe it's not the first one to come up. So.

spreading yourself widely across different platforms to reach different audiences, I think. I think a lot of younger people, shy away from LinkedIn a lot of the time. I know me personally, it took me a while to really get stuck in with LinkedIn. And it's only been recently that I've been posting a bit more consistently. yeah, Instagram and that seems to be a bit of a safe space for younger generations.

PJ Ellis (21:43)

Yes.

Andy (21:43)

I

got a little bit of a guilty pleasure. For the last, my youngest Ben, does my head, well, it does do my head in. He'll spend hours on TikTok, TikTok this, TikTok that. So he's encouraged me to go on TikTok, right? So I've been doing it for the last two weeks. So every morning with my coffee, 15 seconds. And I love it because it's only 15 seconds and you don't overthink it, do you? So.

Abbi Evans (21:46)

you

Yeah.

Andy (22:13)

After six every morning I'm releasing one of these TikToks. I think I'm up to about 20 followers. But it's fascinating. It's so, so different. And you think, how can you get a message across in 15 seconds? You know, and I think you can go a minute, can't you? But if you do think about it, you can definitely convey something. But I guess that's all about consistency, the different channels.

say businesses out there, again, your chance to advise the world, how, should businesses think about them? What's, what's a good thing to do or, or not to do? And I know it depends on the type of business that you've, you've got. Abhi, it to you first.

Abbi Evans (22:46)

So my advice would be to not look at it as like one package fits all because TikTok's so completely different to LinkedIn that if you put what you're putting on LinkedIn on to TikTok, it's just not gonna, it's not gonna hit the same. If you're putting on like TikTok, if you're putting, I know a lot of businesses do like memes or follow trends and stuff like that. It's where people get to know you as people in the business rather than what you do as a business.

Rhiannon (22:49)

Okay.

Abbi Evans (23:14)

So that's where you really connect on a different level. Whereas LinkedIn, I think you can connect with people, but you're also in a way selling yourself because you know there's a lot of business people out there. it's, yeah, making sure your content is slightly different to actually match the platform rather than just thinking it will work everywhere.

Andy (23:36)

Werner?

Rhiannon (23:37)

TikTok, you're definitely showing more personality, you're showing more the people, more than anything else, more like what's behind the brand, what's behind the business. Whereas Instagram, you can kind of do a mix of what you can do on LinkedIn and TikTok. can have, you want to have more personality, you want to have more faces on there, but you can also add a bit of value at the same time. Whereas LinkedIn is obviously much more...

value with a bit of personality, if that makes sense. So it's getting the right mix for each platform that's really, really important.

PJ Ellis (24:12)

You know what, you two could take over the world if you merged. You've got SEO, design and dev here. You've got social media here. It's really interesting. And you know what? I mean, go back many years. I had a social media agency. I started my digital career in paid advertising and I absolutely was obsessed with social media.

Abbi Evans (24:14)

Yeah.

Okay.

PJ Ellis (24:33)

The challenge we have, me and Andy at the moment, is we actually know that we need to be across different platforms, all for those reasons that you so eloquently articulated just then. But we haven't got the time. And that's why I don't believe businesses, not every business, really appreciates the benefit of having a marketing agency support them on their journey.

because they think market, they underplay marketing. well I'm on Facebook, I can sort it out. Tell me, let's go less challenges, let's go more positives. What wow moment have you had so far? I mean you've been in business for a dot, right? You know, in this whole landscape of your lives, you've been in it this long. But you're still in it. You're waking up every morning, you're going into your kitchen, into your coffee shops and you're doing it.

Rhiannon (25:15)

.

I think for me, I think for a while I was thinking that my marketing of myself wasn't very great and then I actually had a corporate gym approach me and say we need some social media help, can you help us?

PJ Ellis (25:17)

You must have had that wow moment to keep you going. You that golf shot that you have, that try that you score, the dumbbell that you lift, whatever it might be. I'm coming back again tomorrow. What's been that moment for you, Rhiannon, so far?

Rhiannon (25:43)

and it ended up not going through after the proposal and everything because they decided they didn't have the budget. But just knowing that I had stood out to them as an option and I stood out to them as something that they needed, even though in the end it didn't quite progress to where I wanted to, it still showed me that I was moving forwards. And even though you could class that as a failure, it was still a step in the right direction.

PJ Ellis (26:08)

Amazing that is definitely a step in the right direction Rihanna. Do not take that as a failure That's lovely people have seen you people have trusted you people have wanted to buy from you Doesn't mean that you've done anything wrong. It's just they're not ready to make the decision that includes you at the moment I'll be what about you, mate

Abbi Evans (26:11)

Thanks.

Yeah, I just want say I definitely agree with that. It is a big moment. It could be easy to take it as a bit of a loss because you think, well, they didn't want to go through with it in the end so I must be doing something wrong. like you said, when you flip it on its head, you've made that progress that you hadn't a week before. So yeah, congrats. But also, yeah, mine was something that I guess could seem a bit insignificant to someone looking from the outside. But I went to an event called Sparks.

Rhiannon (26:34)

Yeah.

Interesting.

Abbi Evans (26:51)

run by DRPG last week, actually a week today. And meeting other people a similar age as me that were shocked that I even started a business. I think that was a bit of a small booster to keep me going because it makes you put it into perspective of what you're actually doing and the challenge that you're putting yourself through. It could be very easy to quit but you get up every day and you carry on. Yeah, that was a bit of a...

Rhiannon (26:56)

you

Abbi Evans (27:18)

Good little boost. Push me through.

PJ Ellis (27:21)

we had Andy Wilkinson on the podcast a couple of months ago. ⁓ And you know what, Andy, the other Andy that you help on LinkedIn who joins your network, he took his son as well. Yeah, yeah, I want to go there myself. It looks amazing. Yeah, those little wins, honestly, what sometimes you can get caught up in business and life. And I think honestly, if you remind yourselves of those little wins every day.

Abbi Evans (27:23)

Yeah.

Andy (27:34)

did. Yeah. Yeah.

Abbi Evans (27:38)

All right.

PJ Ellis (27:48)

If you journal them down, whatever. I mean, I'm talking to myself here because I don't do them. But it's very important because it makes you understand that actually I am moving in that direction. And you know, you said earlier about that, why? I'm going to challenge you if that's the right word on that. And I'll come to you after Riannon. You said I'll do this not for myself, but for others, which is lovely because it is a service. It's a product, whatever it might be that will help others. But whilst you maneuver this through, what position do play,

Rhiannon (27:48)

you

Abbi Evans (28:11)

Oof.

Come on.

PJ Ellis (28:18)

through your scrim half journey at the weekends or the evenings, Tuesday mornings, whatever it might be. What does the end, is there an end line? Is it a sale? Is it an exit? Is it a management buyout? You haven't thought that far yet.

Abbi Evans (28:21)

Yes.

I think, I don't think there ever really will be an end line for me. I think at the moment the goal is to obviously, it's always gonna be to get more clients or to get the next win or something like that. But I don't think I ever want that momentum to stop. Yeah, I feel like it's just a constant leveling up more than anything else. I don't really wanna stay on the same level because I don't feel like I'm improving. Even if I am getting the clients or something.

Also at same time I need to be bettering myself by doing things like going to networking events and things like that that I haven't ever been in that space before because really I should still be in school learning. But pushing myself out of that comfort zone to go and do that, that's more of my challenge for me.

PJ Ellis (29:18)

That's what we're told. We should be still in school learning, by the way, aren't What about you, Gymshark, Unicorn? What are we going for?

Abbi Evans (29:20)

Yeah.

Rhiannon (29:21)

⁓

To be honest, I just keep growing, just keep developing, just keep learning. Yeah, that's the bottom line of it really.

PJ Ellis (29:37)

How are you learning at the moment? We talk about networking. Are you going to any networking events?

Rhiannon (29:41)

No, I haven't yet. No, I think it's something I definitely do want to do though, it's just having the confidence to do that.

PJ Ellis (29:47)

Andy might be able to help you with that. Andy, with your announcement that you're just about to announce.

Andy (29:51)

Certainly, certainly,

and there's definitely plenty of things we can get you along to. Certainly, Wait and Greet Live on the 30th of January. We haven't plugged that page, have we?

PJ Ellis (30:02)

So I'm just jumping in. If you're enjoying these conversations, well, we are bringing those to life at Witton Grid live at Millennium Point in Birmingham on the 30th of January, 2026. 300 people, real talk, life lessons, even a moment to breathe, proper takeaways you can use straight away. Get your tickets at wittongrid.co.uk forward slash register. It's going to be a good one, Bab. Right, let's get back to the conversation.

PJ Ellis (30:34)

Andy, over to you, Mukka.

Andy (30:35)

Yeah. So there's a, someone else is going to pop on the screen in a minute. They aren't really, don't worry. It's going to be your dream client and your dream project, right? Just the project that you just want to win working with the sort of company that you've always wanted to work with. So who's that company and what is that type of project that's going to really

get you playing from a 10 out of 10. I'll come to you first, Abbie, because Rihanna's still thinking, I can see.

Rhiannon (31:03)

you

Abbi Evans (31:08)

Yeah, I'm thinking on the spot here. think So a project for me would be beginning to end, seeing the entire process. think a lot of the time on websites specifically, you can sort of jump in halfway through a project where they have a website already that needs refreshing or updating. And I love doing that, but seeing something go from nothing.

even for like a completely new business that just has like one idea and you have to come together and build it from that and then you see at the end and it's a fully functioning website that like I said people will be on every single day and that's going to make clients and or site sales for them and that's a project that just yeah I don't think you can really beat seeing something from the first idea to the finished product

Andy (32:00)

Yeah.

Abbi Evans (32:00)

But in terms of what business, I'm not really sure to be fair. I think that changes for me each day and like as I get to know different people, it's more the people I'm working with

Rhiannon (32:11)

you

Abbi Evans (32:11)

rather than the business I'm doing it for.

Andy (32:14)

Go ahead and say, go ahead. And by the way, I love how you bring your rugby sporting story through on your website. So anyone who's listening to this, go and look at Sentari, is it? I'll pronounce that right. Yeah. And just look how the world of rugby merges with the world of website design. It's a really nice way you've done that. So Rhiannon, we're coming to you then. Dream client, dream project. Who's walking through the door and what they're saying?

Abbi Evans (32:21)

Thank you.

Rhiannon (32:41)

I think it would have to be either a big Pilates studio owner or a gym owner because I just love

being able to share the feeling and promote the feeling of exercise and being in the gym and pilates as well, like the feeling of bettering your body and bettering your mind and bettering yourself. I just really enjoy marketing that. So yeah, I think that would be where I wanted to go.

PJ Ellis (33:07)

Yeah, there's a guy called Matt Kendrick. Have you been to MK Health? The reformer Pilates in... Yeah, you're agreeing that's the one, mate. Yeah, he's a lad I know. He's a really lovely guy. all... He goes on tour with Ed Sheeran and all that, doing all their sort of health. And he's a really nice guy, actually. Really nice guy. Check him out.

Andy (33:07)

I get it.

Rhiannon (33:13)

I've seen it yeah? There's one in my green isn't there?

Wow.

PJ Ellis (33:26)

You know what Andy, you put them, you put the ladies on the spot. I wouldn't have a clue. I'll put that question back to you, Who's your favourite, who would be your best client and why?

Andy (33:34)

The best time

of moment would be someone walking through the door with a ticket in their hands for Witton Grid Live, January 2026 at Millennium Point Tuesday. That'd be my dream client. What about you?

Abbi Evans (33:36)

Thank you.

PJ Ellis (33:44)

Yeah. Yeah.

Rhiannon (33:45)

So.

PJ Ellis (33:47)

Yeah. Same here, mate. Anyone that wants to sponsor Whitting Grit, give us a call. We've got some great sponsors on board already. We have some brilliant conversations and we're to be leaving at 10 at the end of the day. Fast, friendly and focused. That was a testimonial on Abbey's website. What does Sentari mean, by the way?

Andy (33:50)

you

Ha ha ha.

Abbi Evans (34:06)

It doesn't really have a definition in the dictionary. It's kind of a word that I just came up with. was like coming up with loads of different ideas and to be fair I was bouncing them off with my dad. And we went through a load of rubbish ones to be honest. And then I finally came up with sentari and to me it's more of just like it sounds a bit futuristic. It's very much creative but also

I don't know, something about it feels quite down to earth. ⁓ And that's just kind of the message I wanted to give with Sentari. So it just felt like it fit, right? Yeah.

PJ Ellis (34:35)

That's cool.

And and remarketing is that right right how would you pronounce that I like that because it's a plan your work Remarketing I like it Yeah, so fast friendly and focus was was a comment somebody left on your website

Rhiannon (34:45)

Remarking, yeah.

Yeah.

PJ Ellis (34:57)

Which goes back to that trust thing, doesn't it? Sometimes, you know, it's not necessarily, I say, close your ears, the website that you're delivering. It's that service, it's the friendliness, it's the trust, it's the communications. You're looking at a group of 18 to 22 year olds. What would you say to them now? What's that piece of advice? What would you say to them? Anything.

Abbi Evans (35:18)

I'd

say to take the leap. you're thinking about something, even just for a split second each day of, I'd really like to do this, just do it. You're at an age where you don't really have anything limiting you or stopping you. I think if you don't do it in that period, you'll look so much less likely to do it when you get older because you have more responsibilities, you've got bills to pay, you might have a family to look after, that sort of thing.

My dad's told me like, if he could go back in time to the age he is like I am now, he would have done the exact same thing I'm trying to do. Because you just have the freedom to do it. And I think that yes, you invest your own money and your time and your efforts, but when that pays off, it's going to be 10 times worth the risk. Yeah, it's a no brainer really.

PJ Ellis (36:10)

love that. Riannon what about you mate? anything you've got a room of 18 to 22 year olds it could be about business could be about life anything the floor is yours

Rhiannon (36:11)

you

⁓

Yeah, I think I was going to follow a similar line, but also don't do something because it's easy. Don't pick going to uni because everyone else does it and it's the easy route and it's guaranteed. choose something that challenges you, choose something that furthers you and choose something that you want to do in the future.

Do that early, do that as early as you can so that you have as much time as you can to keep pushing into that and keep progressing and get as far as you can.

PJ Ellis (36:50)

Are we allowed to ask you how old you are? How old are you Rhianna?

Rhiannon (36:54)

19. Yeah.

PJ Ellis (36:56)

wow abby

Abbi Evans (36:58)

19. Yeah.

PJ Ellis (36:59)

i'll put 20s here i mean you're not even in your 20s ⁓ my guys

Andy (37:00)

That's

Amazing.

The gentleman we're talking to on the podcast, it might be around the same time we release yours. He started working in McDonald's as a cleaner at the age of 16. He In 2024, he sold his portfolio of franchised McDonald's records. And at the time, the turnover of his restaurants was 100.

and 12 million pounds. So it shows what's in us all, doesn't it? If you're prepared to take the leap, which you both have, hats off to you and keep going and keep believing. And the more you try, the luckier get, the more people you'll get, the more confident you'll get to go to that networking event, because someone will take you along or invite you along. And I'm sure after this episode goes out,

Abbi Evans (37:46)

Thank

Andy (37:54)

There'll be invitations to come and chat to people and meet people and do it. Just go. Don't overthink it. Just go. That would be my advice. But that just shows what can happen if you've got the right mindsets and you both have because you've said, no thanks tradition. I'm going to do it my way. And there's no better way than your way. Right. I've got a slightly different question for you both. So we're both dads. One of us is a little bit older than the other.

Abbi Evans (38:10)

Thank

Andy (38:22)

I'll let you work that well for you.

PJ Ellis (38:23)

I'll be careful because I've always

looked about 50 years older than I am.

Andy (38:27)

I

knew he'd intervene. I knew he'd intervene. Right. So we're both dads, two kids each, who are going through school, So what's your advice for us in today's world to be better dads? What do we need to think about? What do we need to do differently to really connect with different generations?

Abbi Evans (38:30)

you

Rhiannon (38:50)

I think being open-minded is just huge because obviously there's so many jobs nowadays that just weren't even thought about when you were our age. So just keeping your mind open to opportunities and possibilities of what your children might want to do and where they might want to go. And it might seem really different, really abstract, but it's highly possible and it can work.

Andy (39:20)

Okay.

Abbi Evans (39:20)

Yeah, just following on from the open-mindedness, think it's like, I think kids our age put a lot of pressure on themselves anyway, and I think that gets forgotten about when you're in school and stuff and you're constantly reminded of how you should behave, how you should look, and then you get home and you're on social media and you're told how you should look and how you should behave, whereas sometimes you just need someone to actually have your back and go, no, I fully believe in you and like...

Whatever you want to do, we'll do it together rather than you feel like you have to do it by yourself. I think that made a massive difference for me when I realized actually I had to support from my mum and dad to take that step forward that looked like a step backwards to other people. And actually it's put me on the front foot at the end. So yeah, just that belief that you can do what you want to do.

PJ Ellis (40:11)

That must have been born out of something because, and I'll probably use clumsy language here, but I'm sure your parents are so proud of seeing their 19 year old daughters be as eloquent and committed and determined and have so much self-belief in themselves. I really do hope that my kids understand how amazing they are because, you know, I think...

You know, you've taken this opportunity to go and do the things you want to do, but I suspect there'll be a lot of people out there, a lot of kids, lot of people your age that are a bit lost, you know, that probably don't have that sort of framework from which you might be working from or something. is there any, is there any like quiet reflection you've ever had where you look back on your short life

Abby, it might be sport for you, Rihanna, it might be going to the gym, whatever it might be. But is there anything else that you remember in your life thought, you know, I'm really glad I did that. Less social media, more reading, more travel. Anything like that that sort of stuck with you that thought, actually, this has given me so much ability, confidence, now I'm doing this. Abby?

Abbi Evans (41:14)

Yeah, so I kind of have two things on this one. So the first one was I actually struggled with friendships when I was probably between like year nine and last year to be honest. A good three or four years of feeling a bit like, not like I was too mature for them, but like there was slight difference in how we were thinking about different topics.

So I struggled to keep friends at that time because I just didn't align with them or their values and also being open minded to the fact that they can change over time as well. Just because we're not on the same page at one point doesn't mean we won't be in the next five years. But I think letting myself go through that stage of just putting myself in the best position rather than surrounding myself with as many people as I could, finding those

like one or two people that I could actually better myself with rather than hold myself back. And then the other part of it was travel for me. So I went to New Zealand and Baratonga in the Cook Islands by myself, start of this year, January, February. And that was a massive experience for me because, you know, you're doing something, you're going to the other side of the world by yourself. So you're already putting yourself in a position where you're going to have

talk to new people, which was something I struggled with. it makes you push yourself out of that comfort zone. You don't have the choice to just turn around and go home because you don't want to pay the extra four grand for a flight. yeah, travel is a big thing. I'd recommend that to anyone at any stage in their life.

PJ Ellis (42:58)

Thank you. I wish I'd travelled. Rhiannon, what about you?

Abbi Evans (43:00)

Yeah.

Rhiannon (43:01)

I think for me, when I did work experience in year 12, that was when I thought I wanted to be a physiotherapist. I went and did two lots of work experience in physiotherapy, both were within the NHS and I just thought, and I just realised that that's not the route that I wanted to go down. It looked very different to what I expected and I think if I hadn't have done that, I would be doing

physiotherapy degree right now and thinking, my God, maybe this isn't what I wanted to do. I think without that work experience, I would be on a completely different path and without throwing myself into doing extra work experience and finding out that it just wasn't for me, I'd be honestly on a completely different path.

Abbi Evans (43:40)

Thank ⁓

PJ Ellis (43:47)

You know, I think that's that there's a confidence there that you're making decisions for yourself at an early age. as a parent, I am stressing out daily on whether I am setting my kids up for success. Right. Whatever that looks like. Happiness is the main barometer for me that they are happy, healthy in their mind, have the right friendships, whatever it might be. Right.

Andy (44:01)

So, thanks for joining us.

PJ Ellis (44:10)

The belief is there anything now he said it's a challenge because you know, I think you're born digitally native You know nothing else But is there anything that stands out from your parents that they did something that might seem different to other friends? Yeah, did they ever take your phone off you? Did they ever have like no phones did breakfasts? Did they ever have right walk walking Wednesdays or whatever it might be with there that you thought as a parent I could install into my parenting. I bet you were nodding

Abbi Evans (44:33)

Thank

Rhiannon (44:38)

you

Abbi Evans (44:39)

Yeah, so

my parents had a time limit on my phone until, I don't even know what age, maybe even just a couple years ago. And it was the most annoying thing in the entire world. When I was that age, I was like, why? All of my friends are on their phones until like 2 in the morning, whatever. I'm missing out. I had massive FOMO. And then now I look back on it and I'm seeing my brother go through the same thing. He's 13.

Rhiannon (44:46)

.

Abbi Evans (45:06)

and he's fuming and I'm like actually it betters me because you're not waking up in the morning absolutely knackered going to school you can actually think like it does put you in a better place and I actually think like with social media now it's so easy to get in just a loop of scrolling and if you're on your phone at like I sound like such an old granny saying this but if you're on your phone at like 11 at night and you're just stuck in a little loop you're not actually looking at anything beneficial like

Rhiannon (45:09)

you

Abbi Evans (45:35)

It's all just stuff that's going to rot in your brain and you're not even going to think about it the next day, but in that moment in time, it feels like the most important thing you could be doing. Whereas actually having the time limit, it made me go outside with my friends or it made me like sit and read a book or something that would benefit me. And I actually ended up stealing my dad's books about starting businesses and stuff like that. And it put me in a much better place. So as annoying as it was at the time, it's definitely helped in the long run.

PJ Ellis (46:02)

Thank you, Abhi. That's what I worry about. Andy with TikTok, mate, you're gonna be doom scrolling, mate, at 2 AM in the morning. I tell you, we're gonna lose him to like dancing squirrels Rhiannon, what about you?

Abbi Evans (46:04)

Okay.

You

Andy (46:09)

I'm start singing.

Abbi Evans (46:11)

you

Rhiannon (46:13)

I also had very very annoying screen time limits that cut off me going on my phone past half ten every evening and this was through Covid as well when the only thing to do was go on your phone so all my friends would be up until like three o'clock in the morning on FaceTime and I was like half ten okay goodnight guys like I had to leave the call and go do my own thing which

Abbi Evans (46:32)

Thank

Rhiannon (46:36)

sometimes as reading a book, not very often reading a book, but I was then off my phone. I then had to keep myself busy with other stuff if I couldn't get to sleep and it also showed me that a good night's sleep does feel nice. yeah, yeah, it was very, very similar.

Andy (46:54)

So a couple of things for me. First one, Rhiannon, one for you. There's a new physio studio opening on Boldmeier High Street and Steve's opening it. I think he's got an opening launch event coming up at the back end of November, early December. I think he probably needs a little bit of help. He wouldn't admit it probably. So if you fancy a bit of networking, we'll go and have a little look. I'll introduce you to Steve. Okay. So we can sort that out offline.

Rhiannon (47:01)

Really?

Definitely. Definitely.

Andy (47:20)

And PJ might tell me off for this one. I hope he won't. I think you two should get your heads together and have a chat and think about two things. One, how can you help each other? And two, how can you help us promote WittenGrit live at the end of January so we sell all 319 tickets? There's a challenge for you thing for me, it's a...

Rhiannon (47:34)

No. No.

Abbi Evans (47:44)

Okay.

Andy (47:47)

Delight and I'm blessed to know some of your parents, your great parents. I know they're both very proud of you, all

very proud of you and what you're doing. Hats off for you for having a go and being prepared to be contrarian and do your own thing. It's not easy. It's so easy to want to conform in this day and age. And I want my kids to be like you with the same attitude and outlook. So it's not a question. It's a well done. Get your heads together. We'll be waiting.

Abbi Evans (47:58)

Okay.

Andy (48:14)

And over to you PJ.

PJ Ellis (48:16)

would agree, I would agree. I think if we're talking about giving the next generation the opportunities, we have to be doing exactly the same.

I don't want it to be a mutual appreciation society, but I don't even know your parents and I'm proud of you. It's everything I want to see in our next generation, people who are

Confident healthy, you know excited and just taking the risk the last question for me is Do you procrastinate?

Abbi Evans (48:47)

Yeah, a lot.

PJ Ellis (48:48)

What about you Riannon?

Rhiannon (48:50)

Yes, definitely.

PJ Ellis (48:51)

Okay, well I'm gonna tell you I'm gonna leave on my tip then don't don't because honestly that is something that held me back for years Is this name right? Is the website right? Are the color codes right? Just go right Momentum is better than perfect and you'll find that motivation you find it in all the things that you've spoke to us about today and

Rhiannon (49:05)

100%.

PJ Ellis (49:14)

I'm really looking forward to seeing where this goes and I'm so grateful that you've spent the time telling us more about it today. So thank you so much.