[00:00:00] Dennis Collins: Hey, it's great to see you again. A warm welcome back to Heroes Behind the Badge. We tell real stories about real cops. We expose the fake news about the police and we give you the real truth. This podcast is brought to you by Citizens Behind the Badge, the leading voice of the American people in support of the men and women of law enforcement.

For more information about how you can get involved and add your support to the men and women of law enforcement. Citizens behind the badge.org. That's Citizens behind the badge.org. I'm your host, Dennis Collins, a founding director of Citizens Behind the Badge and a law enforcement Father, please say hello to my colleagues today.

First of all, William j Erth. Well actually better known to his friends and some of his [00:01:00] enemies as Billy. How are you sir?

[00:01:03] Bill Erfurth: Wow. How about that introduction? Pretty formal D. Well, hey, another great show. Getting ready to rock and roll here. I wanna reach out to everybody that's listening and remind everyone to please like, follow and subscribe to our podcasts because the more the times that each of you do that, the more people that will ultimately be notified about this podcast, which is just so important.

[00:01:32] Dennis Collins: And don't forget, you'll be the first to know when a new episode releases you'll be first. So please help us by subscribing and following and liking. Uh, by the way, bill is a retired Miami-Dade police lieutenant, 26 years of decorated service. He is also a founding director of Citizens Behind the Badge.

Now, let's say hello to our Fearless Leader. Hey, Craig Floyd, how are you today?

[00:01:59] Craig Floyd: And [00:02:00] as I'm feeling good today and I've got my art victorious hat on, you may have noticed in prior podcasts I tend not to wear a hat today in honor of our special guest and in honor of a special police officer, a fallen law enforcement hero, Harold Vitale, who we're gonna talk about in a moment, I.

Um, they built a, a memorial to him. Uh, art Victorious is the statue in Saugus, Massachusetts paying tribute to our fallen hero today. And, and, uh, I think many of us know King Arthur of the Renaissance era. He was revered as a protector of the people. And Art Victorious represents, uh, king Arthur's role as protector of the people.

Harold Vitale was a protector of the people in Saugus, Massachusetts, and, uh, he is a fallen hero. We're gonna tell you his story today,

[00:02:50] Dennis Collins: uh, and a great story. It is so, uh, we try to bring you the best and I think today you won't be disappointed. So let introduce. [00:03:00] Our guest and his brother today. Uh, if you're a current member of law enforcement or been around law enforcement for any length of time at all, you know, a few things for sure.

Number one, we never forget. Heroes live forever, and we don't just focus on how they died, but we remember how they lived and more importantly, we focus on their legacy. Today's hero. Harold Vitale, an army veteran, 14 years of distinguished service with the Saugus Mass Police Department. His family remembers that Harold loved cars.

He hated school, he liked pretty girls, and was devoted to his large, close knit Italian family. And I am told he coined a phrase yes. He coined a phrase Vitale pride. His watch ended, sadly, June 18th, 1985. When we think of [00:04:00] on-duty law enforcement deaths, we usually think of gunfire, gun battles, but that's not Harold's shocking story.

Harold's story is about a fallen officer who just wanted to help people, a criminal justice system that failed him. And his family. And a family that's devoted to honoring Harold's life and service. Today we are delighted to have with us one of Harold's five brothers, Les Vitale. Les will tell us Harold's story and will talk about most importantly, his legacy.

So, uh, Les, I can't stop but ask. Vitale Pride. What did Harold mean by Vitale pride?

[00:04:49] Les Vitale: Uh, great question. It was pretty simple to, especially his younger brothers, to understand, um, his early value system and his, [00:05:00] his notion, his desire to make sure that you stood up for each other, you backed each other up. And as a younger.

S uh, brother, I didn't think too much about it other than he's an older brother and he would beat the crap outta me if I didn't. But, you know, we, we learned how to back each other up and, um, as, as people maybe should know, as I was the youngest in the family. So I was a very young, young boy, young child.

And, um, you know, back in the days when you'd go to the school yard and you, you get pushed around. One lesson that I learned early on was either stand up for yourself or surround yourself with people that'll stand up with you and for you,

[00:05:42] Dennis Collins: good idea.

[00:05:42] Les Vitale: And that was Harold's idea of, of Vitale pride and that, uh, before it became popular.

And I think in sports, people talk about, you know, the name on the, what's important is, is the most important thing you have is your name. You know, [00:06:00] people talk about the name on the front of your jersey, the name of the back of your jersey. He was a firm believer that if you had that name and you lived in this family, your sole responsibility was to, to protect it.

And I, I got that message loud and clear and I, you know, tried to live my life that way. And, uh, I think it resonated even more after he was killed. Um, I understood even more how important that that was.

[00:06:27] Dennis Collins: Yeah. That's, that's great. I mean, and I think Vitale Pride lives on to this very day. Uh, uh, Craig, I know Craig and Billy have some, some questions about that and, uh, I'd like, uh, to throw it to Craig to start us off.

[00:06:42] Craig Floyd: Let me just say that, uh, I've known Les and his brothers and, and the whole family now for, geez, we date back to the 1988, I think was the first time we ever ran into each other. Uh, he helped us build the National Law Enforcement Officers Memorial, and I became very close [00:07:00] with the family and I know their story and that's why I was so anxious for our viewers, our listeners, to hear this story, especially as we get closer to National Police Week, uh, in May.

That's always the week. That includes May 15th, and that's where we truly do honor the men and women in law enforcement. And we pay special tribute to those who die in the line of duty. No family that I know of, and I know many I. Has outdone the Vitale family in terms of remembering their fallen in loved one.

Uh, Harold was an incredible individual. I never met him myself, but I feel like I know him so well because I've heard the stories and I know the family. Uh, so today I want, uh, Les to help our listeners, our viewers know the story of Harold Vitale. We've talked a little bit about, uh, his life, uh, who he was, uh, how he, uh, represented the family.

He was a military person or, uh, army veteran. [00:08:00] Uh, and then from the Army, he went on to serve in law enforcement, uh, for 14 years with the sau August Police Department. And last, why don't we start with, uh, the story of June 18th, 1985. This, uh, your brother, your big brother, um, is on patrol as he often was, um, and it was a fateful night.

Tell us, uh, what happened on June 18th, 1985.

[00:08:26] Les Vitale: Sure. So first of all, I wanna thank, uh, Craig for being such a family friend and the opportunity to be part of this and, uh, tell his story and, and share the heroes behind the badge. It, it just, it's very important to my family and, uh, carry on this legacy, um, and remind people of the danger of the job.

But, um, uh, it, it's, uh. An awful story, but he had just come off vacation, reported for duty. He was always working the midnight shift because he [00:09:00] moonlighted during the day as an auto mechanic. So he had come off his vacation, went back to work, checked in, went to the squad room, heard what was going on in the, in the community, had their eyes and ears out for a few things, and, uh, went on duty.

And within about an hour, an hour and a half's time. Came upon a scenario where a call had gone over a police scanner that I was in June, so it was just before 4th of July. And some, um, kids were out up to no good driving around in cars, blowing mailboxes off people's homes of all things. So the department had the word out on the lookout, middle of the night, and about two o'clock he saw a car, uh, rolled through a stop sign.

So he sort of recognized the car and decided to follow it a bit. It rolled through another one, and then he decided to put the lights on and pull the, uh, the driver over there were four occupants in the car, a driver and three friends. And, [00:10:00] um, when he put the call out, unbeknownst to him, the individual driving the car always drove around with a police scanner because he had incidents several times before that with the police.

So he was listening to the broadcast that came over the airways from the dispatch and realized pretty quickly that, um, my brother was going to have to approach him. And after he pulled him over and, uh, he had an outstanding warrant and um, he had been in another high speed chase on altercation with the state police.

He didn't appear in court. So the warrant had been issued. Uh, the dispatch told Harold that this is who it was, this is what he needed to do, and he reported. He went up to the vehicle, some back and forth, asked the fellow for the license and registration. Um, got a little bit of an attitude, um, but he eventually got the paperwork, went back, the processing, went through the [00:11:00] discussion.

En sued the person, the driver of the car. 19-year-old individual was listening to whole thing and according to the witnesses in the car who testified against their friend, uh, he was so upset when he had heard that there was a warrant out for his arrest, that Harold was gonna come back and ask him to step out of the vehicle.

Uh, he told his friends that, you know, you bug language and f them, I'm gonna kill those F and pops. And um, they begged them not to go. Harold went back to the car and the individual had rolled the window up a little bit. Harold had noticed it back in the day, 1985. The vehicles had the little button door locks and uh, he had presence of mind.

Had noticed the door lock had been popped down. So he asked the feller to step out of the car, back and forth en ensued. Um, the fellow refused to do it. He said, what did I do? I didn't do anything wrong. He said, I'm gonna ask you one last time, step out of the car and. [00:12:00] Within a fraction of a second, the accounts a backup officer had had shown up.

Um, and Harold said he had had it covered, you know, not to worry about it, sat in his cruiser and within a few seconds the next thing the backup saw was Harold had apparently reached into, pulled the button and latched the door, and the fellow rolled the window up in his arm and he drove off about two or 300 yards at high speeds.

And the door was open because Harold got the door open successfully. And the fellow swerved the vehicle against a sign pole, and basically he killed him, you know, instantly at that point, um, the occupants all fled the vehicle, including the driver. And, um, the backup had pulled right up called 9 1 1. Uh, called in for, uh, you know, uh, backups to, to come an ambulance, et cetera.

And, um, you know, it happened pretty quickly and. Next thing we know is that somebody from the department called, uh, my brother Dick, who was [00:13:00] listed as the first person to call, um, one of my older brothers. And, uh, they, it was the police, police department. They told Dick that there had been a bad accident and that, you know, Harold was, was injured and, you know, quickly asking a few questions.

He found out that Harold actually was, was, was basically transported to the hospital. Probably not gonna make it. Uh, the phone calls started to ring out through the rest of the family. My brother Dick was tasked with that responsibility to call each and every one of us at about two o'clock in the morning.

And you know, I say this 40 years later, and as I say it, I still feel like it just happened. Um, you know, it just, it's still surreal that that would happen that fast under those circumstances. And, you know, you sit back and you ask yourself why, you know, was there anything that could have been done differently, uh, to reverse the, the course of action?

But, uh, you know, that that was it. He was [00:14:00] left there. The, uh, fellow driving the car, um, and the, and the occupants fled. That fellow fled and he ran about five miles to a neighbor in town, to a friend's house, hid in his house and slept under his bed until the investigation ensued Pretty quickly, they figured out through the other occupants in the car that they had captured.

Where he might have gone, and they showed up the next day and they arrested the individual at his friend's house. And then

[00:14:24] Craig Floyd: such a coward. You know, I I, when I heard that story about him running to a friend's house, trying to escape, uh, what he had done, uh, to your brother, and then he hides under a bed. I mean, uh, you know, the, the lowest of the low, uh, one thing that.

I remember about the story and I, I don't think you hit on it, was that while he was driving with his officer, hanging from the window, Harold's hanging from the window and they're driving at a high rate of speed. The occupants of the car are screaming. At the driver to stop. I [00:15:00] mean, they had sense about them and yet this, this driver obviously did not, uh, I mean, uh, it's just incredulous to me to think that, you know, with all that happening that he continued to drive at a high rate of speed, slamming Harold into a street sign.

Unbelievable.

[00:15:15] Bill Erfurth: Les, I wanna ask a, a more technical, kind of cop centric question and, uh, I saw a picture of Harold in uniform. I saw that he was carrying a revolver on his right hip, so I am assuming that he's right-handed. Is that right? Correct. So did he or had this come out in trial when he reached into the vehicle?

Did he reach in with his right hand or his left hand?

[00:15:42] Les Vitale: So as best as we can tell, uh, or were told when they did the accident scene investigation, he used his right hand on the outside door button and his left hand to, uh, to get the button inside the car because in the old, on those vehicles, you had to push the, the [00:16:00] plunger of thumb button to pop it while lifting the lock.

So it was two hands, right and left. And it did come out in trial because the defense attorney tried to use the theory that he was a young 19-year-old who was very afraid of his life and his big burly officer with a white pearled handled gun, which was Harold's, you know, favorite gun. Um, he was intimidated by it.

So, you know that that's, that's the stuff that, that, that happens, that's disgusting that, uh, things get fabricated. They get blown outta proportion, but. You know, people of the jury are gonna sit and listen and try to understand, you know, try to put themselves in different people's shoes. But, uh, our best, the to, to our knowledge, how that came out was that he would've used his right hand to try to unlock from the outside and the left hand to pull up the little door button to get the, the lock disengaged.

And, um, so he couldn't have reached for his, his gun. [00:17:00] And, um, it was brought out later on that the holster was strapped. So it hadn't, it hadn't been unstrapped, but that came out, but that sort of didn't get us anywhere.

[00:17:12] Bill Erfurth: Yeah. And, and there was, sure would, there was a reason I was, I was asking that particular question was because if it was his left arm that was pinned by the window, perhaps he would've had an opportunity to draw his gun.

And, and, and the reason, the reason I'm talking about this is I had made a traffic stop as a young cop. And the guy was belligerent, I believe he was drunk, and I reached in with my left hand to put the car into park and turn the keys off, and he grabbed my arm and took off, and I pulled my gun out and I.

Screwed it into his ear hole, basically. And we went maybe about 15 yards and he thought twice about it. And that was the [00:18:00] end of that story. And nobody got really hurt, but he went to jail. But interesting fact, and I'm sure this came out in court or I, you know, training has changed over the years, but they drilled that into us in the police academy, that you always keep your right hand.

Free or your gun hand, like I'm right-handed, so you're gun hand free. And when we were in the academy, if you were ever caught carrying your books or your backpack or whatever it was during classes or or whatnot, in your strong hand, in your gun hand, you had to do pushups. And to this very day now, years after working and being retired, if I'm carrying my gym bag, if I'm going anywhere.

I still always carry that in my left hand to keep my strong hand free. So just a kind of a, an interesting thing, and that's why I had asked that question.

[00:18:57] Les Vitale: Yeah. What, what was interesting about that Bill is that, [00:19:00] um, we also learned that he was successful getting the door, uh, disengaged. The door opened. So when the, when the window was rolled up, the vehicle, I immediately began to f he fled and the door was, he was starting and stopping.

So the door was swinging open. It wouldn't close all the way, but Harold was trying to brace himself by putting his, he, he yelled at him that he, from what we were told, that he yelled at him to stop the car. My arm is stuck, and he tried to put his two legs, his feet into the ground to pull his arm out.

When he did it, he broke both of his legs.

[00:19:34] Bill Erfurth: Oh yeah.

[00:19:36] Les Vitale: So at that point he's now got two broken legs and the the door is opening and closing and this kid ain't stopping. So he drove it, you know, about a thousand yards, got up to a higher rate of speed, and somehow decided with the presence of mind, with the door swinging open, he would cockeye the car.

So he did a shop right turn. He's on the driver's side door, shop, right turn into a [00:20:00] signpost. When that happened, the door snapped with my brother on it, right straight against the post. It's his whole body. So, you know, it's, you know, not one of those things, you know, not being there, you know, you, you, you wish it could be.

And you, you know, try to reverse the course of action, but you wish those kids in the car could have somehow won the argument. Um, you wish the kid would've understood that nothing good is gonna come of this. And at the end of the day. You're gonna go to court, you're gonna go to trial. So you got another ticket and you know, you didn't kill somebody.

At, at the end of the day, he was brought up and indicted on a first degree murder charge, which is a whole nother story, uh, because of the premeditated nature of it. Scanner in the car, told his friends he was gonna flee. I have a warrant, they're not gonna get me again. I'm gonna kill that effing prop. And, you know, back and forth it went.

Harold come back to the car and that kid didn't wait very long at all. [00:21:00] And um, it happened, you know, bang Bang. And Charlie Carroll, the backup cop who God knows what he thinks to this day, how he overcame that. But the next thing you know, he's sit, sitting there told that Harold's got, I got it, you know, you're good.

Stay right there. And the next thing he sees this car take off, then he jumps back in his cruiser, a thousand yards, and the he's left to pick up. The pieces of my brother on the, on the street and then call in, and it's somehow that presence of mind to call in what had happened, and then all hell broke.

[00:21:34] Craig Floyd: No, what we've just talked about is obviously the horrible part of the story there.

There's obviously a very inspirational part of the story that I really want to get into. But let's finish up with the trial. Uh, I, I am just to this day, um, just so upset by the fact that he was brought up on first degree murder charges, should have spent the rest of his life in jail, as far as I'm concerned, and [00:22:00] many others.

I, I know the family feels that way. But he served less than 10 years in prison, got out at the age of 29. How did that happen? Why wasn't he convicted of first degree murder and how did he get out in, uh, 10 years?

[00:22:15] Les Vitale: Um, he had a great defense attorney. He got lucky. I think the jury that he got, um, had a melting pot of people that somehow, I think, commiserated with a young.

Teenage person who they bought into the, the hype and the scare factor. Um, but what blew our mind is that the occupants of the car all testified. They all, they all agreed, they all testified of the discussion in the vehicle, the, the incidents before Harold walked up to the vehicle, after he went back to the cruiser, the police scanner, radio broadcast, what they heard, [00:23:00] and they all.

Elaborated on what? Um, this, his nickname was Pepper. The kid who drove the car what Pepper had said he was gonna do and they begged him to not do it. Um, so we, we sat there scratching our head during the trial and obviously the defense attorney did a great job trying to paint a different picture of that, that it all happened because this young boy was afraid.

Um, so. Re So first degree murder charge is the charge. He gets indicted very easily and we go to trial, and then the district attorney's office tells us what, what's likely gonna happen, what's, what's the, what's the defense attorney gonna try to argue? He's trying to get this dropped down to maybe a manslaughter, involuntary manslaughter, et cetera, et cetera.

And we're like, well, how could that be? And then lo and behold, it gets presented and we're, they're ready to give the. Read the charge to the jury. They're ready to, you know, the, the, all the testimonies happened. We think we're [00:24:00] winning. We, it's in largely in favor of Harold. And then the jurors come out a couple times and asked a couple of questions to clarify some things.

But the biggest incident, the biggest error that happened was when the judge said he was gonna release them to the chambers. He wanted to read the charges. So he read the charges of what. He was charged with and what, uh, what the different sentencing guidelines are, what the consequences are. So he led with the manslaughter charges and never read the first degree murder charge, never read it for oversight.

He total oversight. He let the jurors go. They went into chambers and Bob Weiner, the DA, went nuts, pulled the judge aside, called for a sidebar. Then he got. Ornery with the, you know, the prosecutor. And he said, you know what, what's, what's the problem? He said, what's the problem? He said, get the stenographer over here and read [00:25:00] back the charges.

You read. He's been tried. We've been trialing him all week on a first degree murder charge. You never read the charge. So he brought them back out and it was like, oh, by the way, there's one more charge I have to tell you about. And that's first degree murder. Back to the room. They went and they came out and, um.

He was found guilty of involuntary manis of, uh, manslaughter. And, um, one other crazy, you know, the things come back to me as I'm talking this out loud now. The foreman of the jury was, uh, the young kid, big guy. He, um, he kept asking questions and the judge kept telling him he needed to be careful asking questions to not taint things, et cetera.

With the, with the trial ended, we were out in the street. We were all devastated. That foreman of the jury came out screaming at the other jurors and called them all losers and told me never [00:26:00] wanted to see them again in their lives. And he came over to my family and he said, I just want you to know the only, the only alternative I had here was.

To cave into their demands. Otherwise you would've hung, had had ended up with a hung jury and I couldn't see your family go through that. Based upon everything I saw, this is the most egregious thing. He's a murderer and he should have been convicted of murder. So the news media were out there writing things down and you know, the whole circus ensued.

And then, you know, so he has his manslaughter charge. Take him away. And then obviously the appeal process begins and you know, a couple of years later we find ourselves back in court, um, for the appeals. And some of the appeals he wins, somebody loses and he ends up getting retried a second time. So we had to do the trial all over again.

But what I didn't know about law back then. Was that he couldn't be tried on first degree murder charge. He could only be retried on the manslaughter charge that was [00:27:00] awarded as to whether or not that that was, that was valid. He could have won that and that he would've gone Scott free. So we, we walked away from those two trials, just shake our head saying, you know, how does the best justice system in the world?

But you know, we know otherwise, and you know that that's not justice.

[00:27:19] Bill Erfurth: So, Les, your, uh, your brother's killer. Was 19, did 10 years, is he still alive today? Do you know anything about him? What he's doing? What's happening?

[00:27:31] Les Vitale: Um, from what we know he's alive today, uh, I don't know if he's still living in the town, but when he did get out, uh, he had gone back home, um, and lived in the town for a bit.

Um, and, and you know, it's just, we, we sort of. We lost touch with it a little bit and, uh, probably better off because the anger would just continue to boil up. And the guys that he worked, my brother worked with in the [00:28:00] department were obviously very upset. And what we started to think about, a worry about being a, a tight-knit family, but not thinking we're above the law.

The last thing we wanted was one of his coworkers to do the wrong thing. But people would say, oh, you must wanna, you must wanna put a contract on this kid, or you, uh, the, the cops will kill him. And I'm like, you know what, we, I don't think we're gonna, we we're not gonna win it. Anything if that happens. So, um, yeah.

You know, it's just a, they go lucky.

[00:28:35] Craig Floyd: You know, what I remember, uh, Les is that, uh, at the, either at the trial or right after the trial was over, uh, the father of the killer, this teen killer, um, and you can understand maybe why he turned out the way he did and why he did what he did. When you hear his father, as I recall, and I'll, I'll paraphrase, he said something to the effect of, you know, my son was sick and tired.

Of these [00:29:00] police always harassing him and giving him a hard time. Uh, didn't he say something to that effect? I mean, this is the guy's father.

[00:29:07] Les Vitale: He did, he stood up at, right at the end, um, after everybody was, you know, ready to release everybody, and the judge was still there. And, uh, he was obviously pretty upset because his son had now been found guilty of something.

Uh, we felt we lost and he, he turned around and my whole family sitting there, all my, my other brothers and my sisters and we're like. I can't believe this guy got up and he turns around and he pointed at us as he said it out loud and looked at the judge. He said, I, my brother, my son was sick and tired of being harassed and arrested by the police all the time.

You people are no good. My brother Dick almost went over the rail. Adam, you know, we had to restrain a couple of us and, um, we had plenty of the Saugus police in, in the, in the courtroom helping us out. So, uh. We got order in the court, uh, relatively quickly, but, uh, it spilled over into the, out [00:30:00] outside in the sidewalk a little bit.

Um, but then we just realized we better diffuse this and just go off on our own. And we went, we had a meeting with the prosecutor and talked about what are the next steps immediately figuring appeals court and then probably a new trial. And that was exhausting. That was emotionally draining. We can't believe we are gonna have to do this when my brother is the one who's dead.

This is the kid who killed him and said he was going to, so that's what we knew.

[00:30:29] Craig Floyd: Hard to understand, but when you hear the father of this, uh, killer talk the way he did, you, you may be a little easier to understand, uh, why he grew up to be the kind of person he was. Evil.

[00:30:41] Dennis Collins: You've been listening to part one of our conversation with less Vitalety.

Brother of Fallen Officer Harold Vitale. We've heard the heartbreaking story of that fateful night in June, 1985 when Harold's life was tragically cut short at a routine traffic stop and the frustrating legal battle [00:31:00] that followed as the family sought justice. But this story doesn't end with tragedy. In part two, we'll discover how the Vitale family transformed their grief into purpose, creating an incredible legacy.

That continues to support law enforcement families across the nation. Les will share the profound experience that changed their perspective at National Police Week in Washington DC and how it inspired them to establish a foundation that has raised over a million dollars to honor fallen officers in their families.

Join us next time for part two of our conversation with Les Vitalety as we explore what it truly means to live with Vitale pride. This is Heroes Behind The Badge brought to you by Citizens Behind the Badge. Remember to subscribe, like, and follow so you don't miss the powerful conclusion to this remarkable [00:32:00] story.