Doctor Michelle Jeffries, welcome to the QVC

podcast.

Dr. Michelle Jeffries: Thank you so much. I've been so excited about

this conversation.

So have I. Because we have never had a

dermatologist on the podcast because you, you

dermatologists are the toughest people to find.

Who are, who are willing to acknowledge that

maybe it's okay to go outside without SPF 9000

covering all of your skin. So I appreciate your

open mindedness.

Dr. Michelle Jeffries: Yes, yes, there's definitely some open

mindedness. We're not all close minded, but yes.

So let's start how you got into the, your journey

and how you came to, to focus on skin because you

started out studying something else, is that

right? And then you.

Dr. Michelle Jeffries: Oh, yeah.

Tell us, tell us the story.

Dr. Michelle Jeffries: Yeah, so I, I always tell my patients that I

wasn't born a dermatologist because I feel like

sometimes when they're there they're intimidated

and they're like, oh, like she's always been sun

protected and she's, you know, always done these

things a certain way. And you know, I wasn't

like, I, I tanned, I used to lay out in the sun.

My dad and I used to compete for tans when I was

younger. I did the tanning beds, I did the whole

bit. And so just to kind of ease the comfort of,

you know, patients and things, like, I'm a real

person, I've been through those things. And I

mean, my journey into medicine was kind of

interesting to start with. I had this like, kind

of odd fascination when I was younger with the

encyclopedia and that human body section where it

had those clear pages. And I would sit watching

cartoons thinking, like, I'm going to understand

how all this works. Like, this is what I want to

know. And I was like 7, 8 years old, so it was

kind of weird. And then, you know, I went on with

my life and I had some skin issues. Like I had

acne and I would get hives and things like that.

And I thought if I was, you know, going to be a

dermatologist, it was like adults only. And I

was, I was kind of interested in kids. And as I

was journeying to go to medical school when I was

in college, I had my grandma pass that was very,

very close to me. And then like my first love of

my life passed suddenly to the one I thought I

was going to mar. I was like, okay, I am not

ready for life, death, things. I don't think I

can be a doctor. Like, I gotta regroup here

completely. And so I went into psychology. And

then as I was going through psychology, I was

like, okay, like I like all of this, but I still

want to know about the human body. So I was

taking all these classes and, you know, doing

anatomy classes in my spare time when I was in

grad school in psychology. And I was like, you

know, there's something here. And I was trying to

figure out, like, what kind of doctor do I want

to be. I always had this perspective of the

person as a whole person. Like you can't separate

out the different parts. And so I really

resonated with osteopathic medicine. So I applied

to osteopathic medical school and I was like,

okay, if I get in, I'll go, and if I don't, I'll

just continue my career in psychology. And I got

in, I was like, great, okay, I'm going to go and

I'm going to, you know, be.

Could you just explain osteopathy a little bit?

Because I've learned from moving around the world

depending where you live. It's like in some

places everyone's like, oh yeah, go to an

osteopath. And other places are like, what is

that?

Dr. Michelle Jeffries: So, right, yeah. So it's all of the same medical

training as a, as an MD and then we have a

different perspective on the body. So kind of

like the come from of where all of the training

and the teaching that you learn about the human

body, it comes from this place that the body does

have ability to heal itself and that if we can

tap into that and support the body, it can heal

itself. And then the other principle that just

really resonated with me was that everything's

connected. It's not like your muscle skeletal

system is attached to the muscles and attached to

the fascia and attached to the organs and

attached to the skin. And you know, everything

kind of use, you know, moves as a unit. So if

they're say, just like from orthopedic

standpoint, if there's a problem with the

shoulder, well, maybe there might be something in

the neck or something in the back or something in

the knee or something in the ankle or something

else going on with that area. Maybe it's related

to the organ systems that are going there. So

it's just that perspective really, really

resonated with me. So we get training on hands on

techniques of where we move.

Osteopathy is, is hands on, but there's a medical

degree underneath.

Dr. Michelle Jeffries: Absolutely.

Actually know that. I thought it was like

chiropractic where it's its own separate thing

without attaching things.

Dr. Michelle Jeffries: Fascinating. And that's why it Just really

resonated. I could do all of the. Whatever

subspecialty I wanted to go in in medicine, if I

wanted to be a surgeon, if I wanted to be, you

know, a cardiologist, if I wanted to be a

pediatrician, whatever I wanted to do, I would

have that perspective and that hands on of

touching the body and knowing how it works, and

then just that perspective of it being holistic.

So it was like, sign me up. I'm ready. That's.

That's what I want to do.

And where did you. Was this in the United States

that you studied this?

Dr. Michelle Jeffries: Yes. So I live in Arizona. And so my training,

all of my training has been in Arizona in the US

So there is an osteopathic medical school here.

The first graduating class was the year before I

started, so it was a long time ago, but yes.

Yeah. So all in the U.S. i just.

I only asked because I. I lived overseas and I

lived in Hong Kong and a lot of the. There are a

lot of practitioners there who came from

Australia. And they were all. They were all like

osteopathoste pasta. And I had never heard of it.

And I was like, I've never. How have I never

heard of this? It's amazing. And they said it

really depends where the schools are. So I guess

in Canada there we don't have. We have

naturopathic, but not osteopathic. And I didn't

realize the Southwest had an osteopathic college.

So that's amazing because I've googled around.

I'm now in the northeast of the US And I've

googled around for osteopaths. And like, that's

like, no, there. That's not a thing up here. I

can't find any, so.

Dr. Michelle Jeffries: Oh, interesting.

Yeah, maybe I should look harder. But I'm super

intrigued that that exists. And that's so. That's

amazing. Okay, so you did your full medical

training with the osteopathic layer. Okay, let's

keep going.

Dr. Michelle Jeffries: Yeah. And then I was going to go into pediatrics.

I kind of had a curiosity about dermatology, but

kind of, like I said, I didn't think I could also

work with kids. And I wanted to subspecialize,

but I didn't really know much about it. I was

like, I'll just go into pediatrics and see how

that works. And then my last year of medical

school, after I had kind of committed to doing

pediatrics, I found Dr. Ron Hanson, who is the

author of the textbook of Pediatric dermatology.

And he was at Phoenix Children's Hospital. And I

did a rotation with him, and it was like our

first patient. We went in and we saw this little

boy, and he had a rash. And. And the way that Dr.

Hansen analyzed the rash and went through the

possibilities of what it could be and what might

be going on with it and how it could be linked to

other things, and, you know, all of that, it

just, like, it was how I thought it was.

Literally, like everything inside my body

resonated. My intuition was like, oh, my gosh,

this is your thing. You gotta go into

dermatology. And then it was like, okay, how am I

going to do that? I mean, to go into dermatology,

it's like, you have to be top of your class. It's

very, very competitive. People plan for this

their whole medical school career. Like, how the

heck am I gonna.

Do that about dermatology?

Dr. Michelle Jeffries: It's.

It's very super competitive.

Dr. Michelle Jeffries: Super competitive.

Okay.

Dr. Michelle Jeffries: Yeah.

So you're like, last minute. I. I want to do

this, but it's the one. Because, like, going into

investment banking or something. I did that. And

they started planning, like, 10th grade.

Dr. Michelle Jeffries: Totally. How am I going to make this happen? And

then it's kind of like, you know, the universe

always, like, has your back. I guess it just like

it. If it's meant to be, it kind of opens the

pathways. So I shadowed Dr. Hansen as much as I

could in medical school, and I got into

pediatrics, I got into Phoenix Children's, and I

was like, okay, I'll do pediatrics first, and

then I'll just figure it out. And in my first

year of pediatric residency, I got a phone call

from the osteopathic derm residency in Phoenix,

and they're like, hey, we have a spot. You have

to give up your pediatric residency, but we'll

give you a spot in our derm residency. You have

to apply. We have to go through all the things,

but we want to see you apply and see what you can

do. And then Dr. Hansen was starting a pediatric

dermatology fellowship, and he was like, okay, we

can actually do your fellowship, and we can merge

it, and we'll work together. We'll do it

together. And I was like, oh, my God. I mean,

just like, the energy is right. And, like, how

does that happen? And it was like, okay, I

committed to this pediatric residency. Like,

that. That was hard to break that promise. But I

knew that this was the next step of what I had to

do. And so I went through the application

process, the interview process, the whole thing,

and it all Fell into place. I was simultaneous.

This hasn't been done before and it hasn't been

done again. It was a simultaneous pediatric

dermatology fellowship with a dermatology

residency. It was expanded to four years of

training instead of the typical three years of

derm residency after your intern year, and then a

one or two year fellowship in pediatric

dermatology. When I started this, pediatric

dermatology was a two year fellowship you had to

do after dermatology, and then they changed it to

one. It was this magical synergistic pathway

opened up. I was like, okay. Dr. Hanson worked

closely with Mayo Clinic. I was able to go to

Mayo Clinic and get some of the dermatology

curriculum and sit in on that education and that

training too. And then the osteopathic

dermatology program was fantastic. I got to learn

the osteopathic way of looking at skin and

treating it. And so it was a beautiful unfoldment

of something I would have never guessed would

have happened.

Could you explain the osteopathic approach to

dermatology versus the regular approach?

Dr. Michelle Jeffries: Yeah. So in our training, we did all of the

traditional things that you would do in

dermatology. So we would do skin surgeries, you

know, biopsies, prescribing medications and all

of that. But we would try to also put into

perspective what else could be going on from a

holistic standpoint. And were there other

modalities that we could bring in for this

patient to support? And then also recognizing

just the. The psychological impact of having a

skin issue where everybody can see your health

issue, and just really like understanding that

component, and I think that was what really

brought it. Brought it, you know, kind of to the

surface for people is like, okay, we understand

there's like this other part that maybe brings

shame or, you know, anger or frustration or

things like that. There are a little bit of some

osteopathic kind of manipulation techniques that

kind of move the fascia or move different things.

But we didn't get a lot of that in the training.

It was very much more focused on addressing

things because they were already so advanced. And

we had to, you know, kind of take it where. Where

people were at at that point where they had

already full blown psoriasis all over their body

and skin cancers, you know, here and there and

everywhere. So it was great. But it was just

that, that philosophy, that understanding, that

connection to the person in front of you.

Okay, so. So the osteopathic model is more

holistic, you're looking at, as opposed to just

like, let's Treat this. Let's treat this symptom.

What's going on with this condition? It's like

more of a systemic look at where it could have

come from.

Dr. Michelle Jeffries: Right. I think it, you know, most. Most skin

disease is like that, though. It's not. It's not

just always a skin issue. There's more to it. And

I think as time has evolved, I mean, this was,

what, 20 years ago? Most MDs are on board with

that understanding, like, they're starting to see

those things. So it's not. It's not so different

anymore. There's definitely a coming forth of an

awareness of. There's a lot going on. And what's

beautiful about dermatology is it is a bit of a

window into what's going on internally. And even

traditional dermatologists are trained that way.

We're trained, you know, in traditional

dermatology because I was exposed to that

training, too, of this is related. There could be

a systemic disease. It could be related to a

medication. There can be other things going on.

So that's the beauty of the skin, is you can see

things and you can treat them, and then you can

see them get better. It's all right there, you

know?

Yes. And I'm reminded, I know when I first

started, you know, like many, many years ago,

reading about mind, body, connection and, you

know, all of the things, there seemed to be an

accepted belief in that world that I think the

line was something like the skin is the first

layer of exteriorization of something happening,

like an emotional disturbance or something

happening internally. I love to hear your

thoughts on that.

Dr. Michelle Jeffries: Yes. So it's kind of like, you know, we have this

outside environment and we have this internal

environment, and the barrier between it is your

skin. And so. And there's connections to the

internal environment from the external

environment. And so this is where, you know,

about a decade ago, I was learning about leaky

skin, and I was in, you know, doing functional

medicine training, too, and. And leaky gut and

all of. All of that. And it was. It was a lecture

where I was sitting in. It was like my first

functional medicine lecture. And they were

talking about leaky gut and all of the pathways

and the immune system responses and everything

was just like eczema and leaky skin. And I had

the biggest aha moment. And I realized, like, our

external skin, where it kind of meets the inside,

is like when we go to our mouth and then the

inside of our mouth to our throat, and then we

have our inner skin, which is our gut. And so

there's this like, connection of everything. And,

you know, our eyes, I mean, there's just like.

And the skin's great at creating a barrier and

doing that, but sometimes we do things outside of

our skin and the barrier is disrupted and things

come inside. And so there was some data in the

past several years about peanut allergy. And

could it be related to what's on the skin? Not

necessarily eating peanuts, but could it be on

the skin? And could it be vice versa? And could

it be this whole thing together? And of course.

Of course it is. Right. And so there's just these

connections. And sometimes there's like a. I

don't know, like a seasonality to your skin

issue. And so sometimes there'll be something

where things only happen a certain time of year.

And the question to ask there is, well, when it

first happened, what was going on in your life at

that time? Was there something that could have

triggered an emotional or traumatic response? And

going back to that, and then there's like, a

memory. And then when that season comes up, like,

okay, are we having a seasonality to it? I mean,

certainly there can be issues with environmental

allergens and pollens at a certain time, and if

it's an allergy thing, but could there be a

deeper link there. Could there be something where

there's something that happened? Our body

anchored that memory, and we know a lot more now

about trauma response. And then it only comes out

when maybe those energies of whatever was going

at that moment kind of seem more aligned. And

then we realign to that and it comes out again

because we haven't quite addressed it fully. So

that's part of it.

Wow. So that's so interesting. So you would agree

that, you know, with. With that kind of thesis

that evolved. I don't know when that. That the

skin. Often if something shows up on the skin,

it's like. I think. Sorry, I'll finish my

sentence. Often, if it shows up on the skin, it's

like your body's first attempt to, like, show a

signal that something's going on. And if we use a

suppressive agent, I think it was a homeopath

that told me this, now that I'm thinking about

it, it was like, it shows up on the skin. And if

we use a suppressive agent, whatever was trying

to exteriorize that way gets pushed back into the

body and goes and does some other business

somewhere else or something along those lines. Is

that like, how would you. What's your. You know,

you have such a body of research in all of the

different areas. Like, I'M just curious how you

could break down even further for us to

understand, like, what the skin's role.

Dr. Michelle Jeffries: Absolutely. I think. I think there's truth on all

of it, on all the sides, and that, that's kind of

where, like, understanding the. Both and, and

being open and curious to all of the

possibilities instead of one way of doing it, and

that's the correct way, and that's the only way

to do it. And there's another way of looking at

things. It's. There's multiple different

experiences and, and realities of it all. So when

we have something showing up on the skin, it's a

signal that something's going on. Sometimes it

can be just an external thing, sometimes it can

just be in the skin, because the skin has its own

immune response, its own immune system, it has

its own hormonal system, it has its own HPA axis

in the skin. It can just be in the skin. However,

we also know that everything's connected

energetically and physiologically, so there can

be different signals coming up at that same time.

So if we treat the skin, does it push things back

in? I don't know. But what usually happens when

people come and see a dermatologist or someone to

help with their skin is this is disturbing them

in some way. It's either itchy or growing or

bleeding or destructive. So if we can at least

help them with that, and then if there is

something inside that they can work on and do

those inner links and do that inner work too,

it's synergistic. It's not just, okay, we're

going to dampen the skin and that'll cure it and

that'll be done. That's. That sometimes is the

case, but not always. And then sometimes there's

something inside that keeps coming up. And then

could we address that on a deeper level? Could we

do a deeper level of, you know, functional

medicine testing and, and see, like, what is it

underneath it? Is there, you know, an energetic

thing that can be treated energetically

underneath there? Absolutely. But when you're

coming to a dermatologist, it's like, how can we

fix this external thing and do that while you're

working on the internal thing? Are there internal

things we can do in dermatology? Absolutely.

There's so many things that we can do from the

inside out to kind of help those pathways calm

and help them not be so cumbersome and

symptomatic. So it's like, why wouldn't we want a

little relief from what's happening in our skin

as we're working on those other things. Why can't

we have it all? Why can't we do both? Why can't

we work on it all? I guess that's always, you

know, kind of been my come from is like, well,

why can't we do some medication and then do some

other things if. If that's the right thing? Why

does it have to be only medication and only this

or only energetics and no medication and let it

fester and you're miserable and you can't sleep

at night and you know that's messing with your

circadian rhythm and you know, your cortisol's a

mess and then your insulin level, you know, so

it's just. Can't we, can't we just come together

and do it all?

I love that. Because, yes, I mean, we do have

access to these, to some amazing medical

breakthroughs that can relieve our suffering.

But, yeah, I hear what you're saying. But if we

just focus on that, then we're not getting to the

root cause. But if we are a purist and reject

everything, like, we might not get the relief

that we need to do the work that we need to do to

heal, like, at all. Yeah.

Dr. Michelle Jeffries: It's asking what if. What. What if this could

help? What if this other thing that seems like so

extreme and weird, what if that thing could be

part of my healing journey? What if this, like,

thing that's been around for ages could be part

of it? What if this prescription actually could

help me too? Like, why. What if I did all. What

if I, like, you know, kind of followed my

intuition about what I need and how these all can

work together for me, like, that's. I don't know,

just asking the. What if?

I'm having this, this memory and it keeps coming

to my mind, so I'm just going to tell the story.

It's like super woo. But I, I was listening.

There's someone I listened to who. He's an

intuitive. Like, that's what he does for a

living. And he was telling a story that he was

getting like a recurring foot fungus. And he was

doing all of the, all of the natural things and

all of the things to clear it and heal it. And he

did like a guided, you know, intuitive session.

And he got the message, like, this is. I forget.

Exactly. But basically the message was like, you

got to put drugs on it. This is like the

energetic imprint of this requires modern

medicine. So go do it.

Dr. Michelle Jeffries: Right, right.

And I just love that story because he's like, as

woo as you could possibly get right.

Dr. Michelle Jeffries: And that's. And that's the beauty of being in the

both hand and being open. So he was woo, and I

think we're all woo in some way, especially the

audience listening to this too. But. But yeah,

it's like, why? Why can't we do it all? Like,

what. What's the hold up here? Why are we

struggling so much? Why are we putting ourselves

through so much? And I think there is a lot of

misunderstandings and misinformation about

things. And I mean, gosh, coming through the past

couple of years, it's like there's a distrust of

things and, you know, trying to trust your. Your

own intuition and gathering information and not

knowing, like, what's truth, what's not, what's

true for me, what's not. And like, we're really

just as a society, figuring that out. And part of

it is bringing us back to the anchoring of

circadian rhythms and nature and all of these

foundational things that have been going on since

the beginning of time and all of that. I think

there's a lot of gifts in that journey of

figuring that out. And the amazing people you get

to meet, too. I work very closely with

naturopaths and some intuitive energy healers and

functional medicine practitioners and oncologists

and plastic surgeons, and all of it. And it's

just depending on what's going on with a patient,

they might need all of that. They might need a

little bit of traditional Chinese medicine and

acupuncture and herbalism, plus maybe we need to

do some topical treatment, or maybe they need a

systemic treatment. And. And maybe I'm dealing

with someone that is very much into energy

healing and has their energy healing that's

working together, but we're coming together as a

team to do that holistic piece.

Yeah. I love this approach, and thank you for

modeling it in the world and creating a structure

that is truly integrative in terms you are

integrating all of the things, all of the

possibilities, all of the opportunities. Man made

nature, all of it. So thank you. Thank you, Dr.

Jeffries. That's a good one. I want to jump back

to. You said something interesting that I hadn't

never heard before, which was leaky skin.

Dr. Michelle Jeffries: Yes.

And compared it to leaky gut. And you were

talking and you were saying, like, the skin is

sort of the external layer, the actual physical

barrier from a quantum biologic standpoint. Like,

we talk a lot about how our bodies are

energetically communicating with their

environment all of the time. So, of course, like,

the. The medium I Guess through which they're

communicating is kind of the skin. So tell me

what you mean by leaky skin, how it relates to

leaky gut and how it relates and how you now sort

of see the quote unquote, quantum health

practices fitting into it.

Dr. Michelle Jeffries: Yeah. So leaky skin. So typically we have these

two cells of the skin, and they link together,

and there's different little things that kind of

go in between that link them together. And when

those are disrupted and open, there's a leak in

that system. It's not sealed. And so the immune

system will try to come there and heal it. So we

might get, like, that itchy healing sensation.

The skin cells themselves might be trying to

repair and trying to, like, come together. And so

they're trying to do different things that help

those skin cells, or keratinocytes is the medical

word, but just trying to get them to come

together and seal up. And when we scratch it, we

open it up more, and then it's like more things

on the external environment can get in. So

bacteria and fungus and viruses and, you know,

all the things. Right. And so our body is like,

okay, now it's open even more. We got to heal

even more. We get a little bit thicker, and then

we start to see that th. Thickening of the skin.

So this is kind of the foundation of eczema, or,

you know, kind of like a barrier disruption in

the skin is where there's an opening. The immune

system's trying to heal it, and then it's. It's

getting thicker. So eczema is also known as the.

Itch, to clarify, like, that at a cellular level,

the. They're becoming. The cells are becoming

kind of looser.

Dr. Michelle Jeffries: Yep.

Then there's a gap. Yeah, there's gaps. Okay.

Which is allowing things in that the body doesn't

want. So the response is to thicken up.

Dr. Michelle Jeffries: And get rid of it. Get the immune system.

Oh, okay. All right.

Dr. Michelle Jeffries: So it's like, let's thicken up and let's get rid

of it. Let's, you know, increase that barrier so

that the body doesn't have harm. And kind of

within the spectrum of skin disease, I feel like,

you know, our bodies are meant to repair and

heal, and it may even have, like, a priority

system of, like, what it has to do. So sometimes

skin issues are more prevalent or more allowed

when we're more stressed out. So stress also

plays a role in how our cortisol is being

balanced. So if we truly were having this, like,

extreme version of being chased by a bear, and

we're trying to get rid of it. If we had a skin

sore, the bear would be like, eh, no thanks, I'm

good. Like, there might be something going on

with this bear. Pray I'm going to let it be. So

there's that stress response too, that kind of

almost like allows it. So, so there's that

internal component of that. And then if there is

an allergen or chronic inflammation or something

else going with the body system inside that maybe

isn't getting addressed and the body's trying to

have to have to really focus on that. It might

allow, okay, well, let the skin do that. I got, I

got priorities here. I got to focus on the heart,

the lungs, the muscles, like all of these other

things first. So there's that component that

plays a role. Then you think of, well, okay, if

we follow the skin, like I said, to our mouth and

we go inside. When I was sitting in that lecture,

they had a picture of the gut lining and I could

have blinked and it could have been skin and the

immune system and then the leaks of the barrier

of the gut, the intestinal permeability

happening, and then the immune factors that are

trying to heal it coming in. I mean, it was just

like, okay, I see that in my dermatology

textbooks with the skin. I'm seeing this here on

the screen of gut health. So it was just like

this aha moment of like, oh, it's not just skin,

it's everywhere. Like, it can happen other places

and can it just be isolated to one thing?

Sure.

Dr. Michelle Jeffries: Can it be linked to both? Sure. Can there be

other things going on? Sure. It's the kind of

having that living in that realm of possibility

of maybe what could be going on. And then to your

point about like quantum, Right. So then we get

to kind of energy and quantum and the tiny

particles and photons and all of the cool things

that I love to geek out on, which has brought me

to you and the training program is basically

there's. There's almost like a increasing density

of, you know, of material when we get to the

physical body. So there's a, there's a point at

which things get a little bit more dense. And

that's where we define, you know, our physical

body. And so, sure, there can be the gaps, sure

there can be, you know, the little photons of

energy and things kind of buzzing around. But

there, I think there's just a density of when we

come to the human body, and then maybe those

densities change as we go more internal. I don't

know if anyone's really defined like the quantum

energy of going in through the skin all the way

into the body and what all those little, you

know, things quantumly look like. But that kind

of makes sense to me is like there's. There's

kind of like maybe less dense in the environment

of. Of, you know, quantum. And then when we get

closer to our body, there's a density just like

the computer. There's a. There's a density that

creates the computer, even though we know in a

quantum world there's a lot of space in those

molecules and all of that. So that's kind of.

Kind of my thoughts on that.

Okay, this is so cool. All right, so then what,

in your estimation. I'm not looking for, you

know, blanket truths here, but in your

experience, in your estimation, what is most

likely to cause that leakage in the skin and does

it. And it's so, so interesting to me that. That

the exterior and the interior are such a mirror

because it's. We're all. It's all the same. Okay,

but what is. What are some of, you know, some.

There's. I think there's things that would come

to mind, top of mind, that would cause that

leakage. But then what are also things that maybe

we're not thinking about?

Dr. Michelle Jeffries: Yes, I know exactly what you're asking. There.

There's so much there. Right. And all the

different layers, and especially if we're talking

integrative. Right. So certainly there's the

physiology. There's the fact that the cells are,

you know, we've shown that they're open and

there's this break. And like, what could have

caused that? Could it be something outside in or

inside out? So there's that whole thing outside

in for. For eczema. And maybe a leaky skin is.

Could there have been, you know, maybe the

barrier was a little bit disrupted and then an

allergen got put on and then the body reacted to

that and it got more irritated and more

irritated. And then it, you know, recruited the

immune system in the skin. And then it got so bad

the immune system in the body had to come up and

go, could there be a microbiome issue where

there's a microbiome of the skin and then could

that be disrupted and then the immune system is

responding to that and all these different

layers. Could it be a food and internal that

started in the gut and then, you know, unfolded

into the skin? All of these are amazing

possibilities, and certainly all of them can be

true all at once, too. So that's the other piece

of this is it's not always like, okay, there's an

irritant on my skin, and I'm more prone to dry

skin and eczema. And then I ate these foods too,

that irritated in my body. It doesn't have the

micronutrients to be able to heal. And there's a

disruption in the microbiome. So all of this, you

know, is a little bit of dermatology, a little

bit of integrative medicine, and a little bit of

functional medicine where we can dive deep into

the fascinating physiology and biochemistry of

how this all works. And then there's the

energetic piece of it. And this is where things

get a little different and a little out there.

Um, and the way that I've experienced this with

patients is that there usually is an identity

issue going on with eczema. It's not everybody.

So this is a hard thing, like babies with eczema.

I don't know if this applies, but there can be a

subset of patients with eczema that have this

leaky skin, that don't know where they're defined

in life. Who am I compared out in this life?

Where is my definition? Where is my barrier?

Where is my boundary? Who am I as a person? I've

had a handful of people transitioning transgender

that had horrible flare ups of their eczema

before they were able to communicate to their

family of what was really going on with them.

That is profound. And then once they kind of

define who they are and are comfortable in their

own skin and their own body, wow, that eczema

calms down and could there be, like, the stress

physiology of it? Yes, and all of those things.

But that, like, barrier of like, who am I? And

I'm like, maybe I'm pleasing others and leaking

out and allowing other people to tell me what to

do and who I am and I'm not coming from within

and have this, you know, firm boundary of me and

who's me. And not everybody that's going through

that is going to have eczema either. So, I mean,

some people manifest it in different ways. It

might be a gut thing where, like, they get, like

a really upset gut and, you know, maybe they have

loose stools when they get upset or, you know,

everybody's different. Some people it's heart

palpitations or, you know, it's something in

their heart. So there's. There's all these

possibilities there. So it just depends on kind

of what layer, I guess, you want to look at.

Yes. And, yeah, I guess my question was more just

about saying like, yeah, there are all those

layers. And I think you know, back to what you

were saying earlier about not like separating

them and being like, okay, I have to get to the

emotional cause of this. I have to get to the

spiritual cause. Like there might, it might be a

whole constellation.

Dr. Michelle Jeffries: Right.

And depending what door you're coming in, you

might be someone who wants to start with emotion

and like, so you don't need medication or vice

versa. But maybe it's all, you know, we all need

a little bit of everything at some point. Yeah.

Dr. Michelle Jeffries: And it's, it's also an allowance of just letting

it be, let, letting your journey unfold. And

because I don't know what your lessons are going

to be or what you're supposed to do or where

you're supposed to go or I don't know, I'm, I

see. I'm going to give information and a guide

and hold space and do my best to connect you with

anyone that may be connected to your journey. And

then, and then it's up to you what you have to

do. And so it's an encouragement of just

anchoring into what's going to work best for you.

What's your journey? It's okay to make mistakes

and, and I don't think there are mistakes. I

think it's just like we went down one path and we

had a lesson and we learned and we're pivoting

and we're going down something else. And so it's

just, it's allowing that space and holding that

space for people and, and letting them have their

journey and do their thing. And you know,

sometimes the answers aren't always outside. We

resource meaning finding the source within from

looking outside it kind of anchors us back in of

what, what is right and we come back to source

inside and then we reference and then we come

back inside and see and then we might come out.

We might be able to help people who have been on

that journey too, but with the understanding that

it's their journey, everything you did isn't

necessarily what they need to do too. So.

Yeah, such a beautiful approach, Michelle. I

really love it. And yeah, I just want to talk

about eczema for one more moment just because it

seems to be like such a determined condition. I

know people who, you know, who have young

children with eczema who, you know, they do

everything there is to do from you know,

circadian rhythm to you know, non native EMFs, to

food to like loving secure environment, home

environments and they have made tremendous

progress. And still this, this it doesn't seem

to, like, be something that likes to fully

resolve or you would, you know, even in a. In a

young child. And so I'm just wondering what you,

what you see with eczema. And that being said, I

have. I'm thinking of one woman, Angela Jensen.

She did just what you, you said. Like, she's now

studying to be a naturopath and studied applied

quantum biology because her. She went through the

ringer with her child. They did an extended

family trip to Mexico. It resolved. They went

back home. He. They changed the lights at his

daycare. It came back. It was just. So, anyway, I

just, you know, especially for the moms out

there, I just would love to hear a little bit

more of your thoughts on eczema and children.

Dr. Michelle Jeffries: Yeah, I mean, it's definitely a challenging

situation, especially, you know, as a, you know,

also being boarded in pediatric dermatology. It's

seeing the kiddos and the moms and the parents

suffering, seeing a little baby, like, not really

able to scratch, but just, like, writhing around

and the parent just being like, I've tried

everything. I don't know what to do. I can't

sleep. And just, just the level of. Of stress and

distraught that it brings to families. I've seen

it impact marriages just because, you know,

parents aren't getting along because they're not

sleeping and they're miserable and they're.

They're trying from, like, the deepest depths of

their heart to do what's best for their baby. And

so it's one of those things where we don't have

all of the healing things at our fingertips. We

don't know everything. We don't know all the

things. And so we know that there are a lot of

things that can help. There are a lot of things

that can dampen the response. And it's being open

to all those things and also understanding the

continuum of where it is. So it's considered a

chronic skin disease. So it's probably going to

ebb and flow, and then sometimes there's going to

be things that, you know, trigger it. You're

like, okay, this was it. They had this certain

food and this was it. And then sometimes you're

like, okay, they had that food again and their

skin's fine.

And it's just.

Dr. Michelle Jeffries: It's so frustrating because maybe that's not what

it is. Maybe it's not the food. And then they're

like, okay, it's seasonal. Like, you know,

there's a pollen, grass or tree doing it. And

they do the allergy testing. And they do the

desensitization of those things, and maybe they

still have a little bit. And could there be a

genetic component? Could there be some untapped

things there? Yes. And so what, what I do in my

clinic is like, it depends on where we're at with

things. If we are having a full body severe

flare, like we're going to put things on the skin

to dampen that. We're going to do prescriptions,

and we're going to do it in a very guided, very

closely monitored way to just get to the point

where that being can be comfortable, and it just

takes the edge off of the whole entire family.

And then once we know what works, what can dampen

that response, then what are we going to do for

longevity? How are we going to handle those

flares? And so it's coming back into the clinic

and seeing, okay, I had these tools, and I have

all these different tools. I know how to use

them. This is what I did for this flare. This is

how long this lasted. Okay, now let's regroup.

What do we need to do for the next flare? And

kind of doing that. And it's a lot of back and

forth and learning because not one eczema patient

is like the next one. There's different things

for everybody. So what I typically do in the ones

that are open is I work with a pediatric

naturopath, and then I also work with a

pediatrician who does some gut testing. And in

some of these kiddos, we find yeast and they do a

little mini protocol and they do great. And other

kiddos, they've done that. And the eczema is

still there. And we have to advance some of our

treatments. So it's. It's one of those things

that breaks my heart. I know I can help. I know

that I can get the babies a lot better with

traditional dermatology practice and, and being

supportive and understanding of what they're

going through and seeing them regularly and kind

of giving them something to use to help their

skin and help their baby's skin. What I think is

very effective is if I can give a mom something

that they can put on their baby and it actually

helps their baby, they feel like they're helping,

and it's like they're doing something that's

making it better. There's nothing more

frustrating than putting something on the skin

and it makes it worse. And your baby's screaming

and crying and you don't know what it is. And

some of the common things that I see for that are

the baby products and it's terrible. It's like

we'll have like a certain lotion or a certain

thing that says it's for babies and it has

fragrance in it and their skin's already

disrupted and then they're putting that on and

maybe it's a cream. And creams tend to be a

little bit more burny, stingy. And then you're

putting that on too and it's just aggravating the

whole thing. And then as a parent, you may think,

okay, I put cream on and it doesn't work, so I'm

not going to do creams at all. Like it was very

traumatic, I'm not going to do it at all. But

maybe it's using something that's doesn't have

fragrance in it and it is more hypoallergenic and

it's more of an ointment, more of an occlusive

ointment that seals that barrier that's not going

to burn, sting. So I think if there are any moms

listening with eczema, just know there's a lot

that can be done and there's a lot of caveats and

not to give up. There's a lot to it. And

certainly you can go down a pathway of misusing

topical steroids in this way. So you want to work

with a board certified dermatologist who can

really guide you on what you're supposed to do.

Some pediatricians don't entirely understand how

to use topical steroids, so they refer you to a

pediatric dermatologist. And sometimes you can go

so far down this like testing and supplements and

elimination that your baby ends up malnourished

and not getting the micronutrients that they

need. And sometimes all of it works together too.

So just there's a lot of things there and some

kids grow out of it and some kids don't. And so,

and then why is this happening? Why do we have so

many eczema kiddos? I mean, I think it must be

something related to maybe our toxic load that

we're experiencing and then our inability to

detoxify things that might be one big piece of

it. So we're getting exposed to all of these

different things in our environment and then

maybe we're having toxic emotions, toxic thoughts

too that we're not talking to anybody about. And

maybe we're around toxic people that we can't

escape, like family or, you know, things like

that. So there's all these different layers of

things going on. So I think just a holistic

perspective and knowing that there are things

that can be really helpful. You may not want to

do them first thing, you may be exploring other

things, or you may do them first thing and then

use the other modalities to help support as

things get better. So I hope that helps.

Yeah, super comprehensive. And as you talked

about the onslaught of toxins, both physical and

frequency, and how to be, how to detoxify and be

resilient. Let's, let's close out by talking

about like the quantum biologic approach. How

does, how does skin fit in and how do you as a

dermatologist, recommend sun for people?

Dr. Michelle Jeffries: Yes. So this is a big shift that has happened to

me over my career. So, you know, being a

traditionally trained dermatologist, we're, you

know, sunlight causes a lot of issues in the

skin. And so I live in Arizona. We have an

abundance, abundance of sun. It is all the time.

And so there is, you know, something that's,

excuse me, a common sense about it. Like we know

in Arizona in the summer, we can't be out there

in the middle of the day for a long time. Like we

will be fried to a crisp. And even landscapers,

people that work on roofs, like they cover up. So

there's truths on all these sides. It's having

that understanding. But what if when the UV index

is really low at sunrise and we're able to get

some of the far infrared light into our eyes and

our body and there's not any UV risk there, why

aren't we suggesting people go and outside at

sunrise and then what about sunset too? So that's

been a shift in my recommendation is there's

definitely a benefit of exposure to sunrise and

then sunset if you can. And then it's off those

devices at night and going to bed on time and

being able to wake up in time to go out there for

sunrise. And then I learned about the UVA rise,

which I thought was fascinating that, you know,

about an hour or so after sunset, sunrise,

there's the UVA rise and how that helps with our

mitochondria, how it can help with thyroid

health, how it can help with cortisol. And that

was fascinating to me. Now in Arizona, there

might be a tiny window in the summer where

there's Sunrise, UVA Rise, UVB and Boom. We're

like full UVA 8. And so it depends on the time of

year, it depends on skin type, it depends on, you

know, where you're living and all, all of those

things. And so there's, there's kind of like the

nuanced approach of this like there might be some

things that are okay for a lot of people and

there might be some things that are okay only for

a small percentage. Most of my day in dermatology

is diagnosing and treating skin cancer. If you

are suspicious of anything that you think could

be a skin cancer, go and see a board certified

dermatologist. We have a very, very trained eye.

We can detect it where we have different

magnifiers and polarized lights that we use on

your skin to be able to see it. And so we know

that UV light might be related to that. But I

think there's other things too. It's, it came

down to, it's one thing that maybe we can control

or maybe we could do something about. And there's

some other things that maybe we don't know how to

mitigate or control. Maybe there is. Like you

live in a city with a ton of pollution and like,

what am I going to do about it? I don't, I don't

have the money to see a functional medicine

doctor and get my testing and see, you know,

where my toxic load is at and do the detox, you

know, protocol, you know, gosh, like, you know,

there's all of that maybe I don't know what's

going on with my microbiome of my gut and you

know, if it's leaky or not and that's impeding my

healing and I don't know about my stress levels.

Like I'm having a hard time struggling and so I'm

inflamed all the time and angry and I might have

micronutrient deficiencies and things like that.

But it seems like sun was something that as

dermatologists like, okay, that's something that

we could at least give some guidance on. It's

something we can maybe control. And then what

happened is there is a whole misinformation about

sunscreen. Chemical sunscreens have gotten the

spotlight of like, you know, don't put chemical

sunscreens on your skin. And I would say most

dermatologists never even recommended those. From

the beginning. We've, we've anchored into the

zinc oxide sunscreens and sunscreen where you

can't cover and covering with clothing is

actually number one. Sunscreen is probably number

two. And then, you know, reapplying. And so what

also has happened with the industry is sunscreen

used to be sunblock and so then it was, it blocks

the sun and you're safe and you can be out there

as long as you want and you're fine and we had

the FDA take that off a lot of the labels of

sunscreen, because that's not true. It gives you

that false sense of security. And even sunscreen,

it's a screen. It's not perfect. You're still

going to get some of those UV rays in. Now then

we go into. Well, if it's. If you're blocking

yourself all the time, maybe that's not the

healthiest. And that's where I think things are

shifting a little bit, that maybe you get a

little bit of sun without protection, maybe when

the UV index is around 2, so you get a little bit

of vitamin D. However, if you have a SNP in your

vitamin D receptor, it doesn't matter how much

sun you get. You may not absorb it from the sun

entirely. So there's that subset of people.

Right. So we have all of these different, like,

caveats to everything, I guess. I don't know

where you want to go with that, but there's.

There's so much. Yeah.

Super interesting. So if we are, you know.

Because we talk a lot about that the sun is

actually the source of life and is good for you.

Now, obviously, you don't want to get a sunburn.

That is not good. But what. How do you feel about

a tan? And how do you feel about. If we want to

get, like, a really high vitamin D level in the

summer for those of us who can. Would. Going

outside.

Dr. Michelle Jeffries: Yeah. So that. Yeah.

From the sunshine.

Dr. Michelle Jeffries: There's interesting data about intermittent sun

exposure increasing your risk for skin cancer,

chronic sun exposure lessening the risk. So it's

fascinating now whether or not.

Intermittent being like, I live in Minnesota and

I fly to Mexico and I lie out in the noonday sun,

and then I come back.

Dr. Michelle Jeffries: Or like, what I used to do when I was little.

It's 50 degrees. I'm gonna lay out. I was a

teenager, I was gonna get tan. And, you know, and

then it's like, as soon as it's warm out, I'm out

there, and I'm only getting sun certain times of

the year. And the rest of the the time I'm like,

indoors and, you know, and. And there's also,

like, we're in front of screens. We're getting

the blue light at night. Like, there's all these,

like, different. Different pieces. But to kind of

answer your question, so, you know, obviously not

a sunburn. But then when you start noticing the

browning of the skin, then it's like the little

kind of keratinocyte or skin cell. There's a

melanocyte for every, let's say, 30 of those. And

what it does and it's kind of like, I don't know,

it's kind of like an amoeba shape, I guess, is

kind of how it's kind of, I think of it. And then

the keratinocyte is kind of like a block. And

what it does is it kind of goes over and it tries

to cover it and protect it. And then when you

have more of that network, that's when we're

starting to see a tan. And then it's, you know,

depending on what is going on with your body,

with your immune system, with your stress levels,

with your exposures, who knows how long that can

hold? Who knows how long that can protect? And

then can that keratinocyte somehow, when it makes

a new layer, because every month we get in a new

epidermis, can it make a mistake? And does your

body have the right tools in its immune system to

catch that mistake, repair it? Are we doing

things at night to detox and repair? Are we

getting off devices? Are we healing at night? Are

we adequately doing that? What is our toxic load?

What is our detox pathway? How are we repairing?

So certainly there might be a small set of people

that, yes, they can BTN and go out and do that.

But there's caveats like, we don't know. And

there's a delay, right? So there's a delay in

what we did when we're younger and what ends up

happening later. And there is like a senescence,

there is a dipening of the immune system and the

repair factors as we get older because the body

is trying to repair all these other things, too.

Then what we did earlier, is there a memory and

is there something going on that gets carried on

later? We don't know how that life's going to

unfold. If we have a child who's out getting tan

all the time, and then later in life they live a

very toxic lifestyle, there might be more at risk

for things. It's so hard to answer the question

with not knowing all of the things and all of the

details and what's right. And then the photo

damage, like, that's real. That. Yeah, that

sucks. That's like. I mean, I would say the

majority of the women I see all ages into their

90s. How do I. How do you help me with brown

spots? How do you help me with wrinkles? I don't

do cosmetic dermatology, but all of us are trying

to reverse some of that photo aging that has

happened. And I don't think all aging is just

from the sun. It's not, there's a lot of other

factors that go in it, but it's something that

maybe we can mitigate. So when we are starting to

notice, like, okay, I'm getting a little bit of

freckling and discoloration on my skin. My body's

not maybe ready for this. Maybe I need to work on

some things if I'm getting sunburn. Like, okay,

yeah, too fast, too hard, gotta, gotta calm, calm

down. And so there's just, there's just so much

to, to go over there.

I totally, it makes, it makes perfect sense

especially like having such a, an in depth level

of experience. And it absolutely makes perfect

sense that there's nothing that we can say like

just do this and have it not be related to

everything else you're doing. So with the

exception of sunrise and sunset, like it's really

hard to hurt yourself with those. But, but during

the, the high intensity parts of the day, it's

like what I hear you saying is that it really

depends what the whole rest of your life is. Like

are you, are you eating real food? Are you

blocking non native EMFs as much as possible? Are

you sleeping in the dark? Are you like all of

these other things are going to inform how well

your body can handle high intensity sun? Is that

yes.

Dr. Michelle Jeffries: So fair. And also your mitochondrial health, like

so there's an interesting study that came out, oh

my gosh, a long, a while ago, I can't remember

the year. I'm a clinician, not a researcher, so.

But it was about niacinamide or nicotinamide and

how there were two groups of people in Australia

and one group took it twice a day and the other

group didn't take it. And everybody was at risk

for skin cancers that had skin cancers and pre

skin cancers. And when they looked at it a year

later, there's a 23% reduction in squamous cells

and the people that took the niacinamide. And I

was like, oh, of course, mitochondrial health,

it's on the electron transport chain. So there's

something there, there's something there. So that

is something that we recommend is, you know,

there are antioxidant supplements that can help

you as well, to help protect you. It's not all

hats and sunglasses and sunscreen and clothing.

You could also do things from the inside out too.

So there's all of that perspective. And then also

about skin cancer. I mean it's not just one

thing. Even melanoma is not One thing, there's

different types, there's different subtypes.

There are, you know, melanocytes are a type of

cell that is not only in your skin, it's in your

eyes, it's in your sinuses, it's in your

genitalia, it's in your mucosa. So I mean, you

can get melanoma without sun exposure. There are

melanomas that exist in areas that don't have sun

exposure. We do know that we see them more

frequently on sun exposure, those areas. And

melanoma is a very high risk because there are

variants that can break off and spread. And we've

tried to figure out, okay, if it's this deep in

the skin, it's higher risk to break off and

spread. And sometimes that guideline is great and

it's really helpful and sometimes it's not. And

sometimes things progress. And we've done all the

things and we thought it was something that was

in the surface or superficial and did the things,

but it spread more. So there's a lot of things we

don't know about that. And you know, each skin

cancer is named after the type of cell that grows

more than it should. So a basal cell is a basal

layer between the epidermis and the dermis. And

it's that lining. It's the most common type of

skin cancer. And I've heard in different realms

of, oh, it's, you know, it's nothing, you can

just let it be. But there's subtypes, there's

superficial spreading where it spreads, there's

infiltrative aggressive where it goes down. And

it doesn't really look like much on the skin.

It's like a little scar, but it's diving deep and

it's destructive. So why not get those taken care

of with a board certified dermatologist and then

work on like, okay, why the heck am I getting

these? What can I do on the inside? And then

squamous cells, it's, it's, you know, the rest of

the cell layer in the epidermis are squamous

cells. And we have squamous cells in our linings.

So when you google just squamous cell cancer, you

might come across lung cancer of squamous cell.

And that behaves very differently than skin. Then

depending on the type and subtype, location and

size, things behave differently. A squamous cell

that's invasive and we call it poorly

differentiated mean it's kind of like all over

the place and not really defined if it's on the

scalp or on the lip or in front of the ear, it's

a higher risk to go to those lymph nodes. But if

you have a superficial one that maybe is on your

abdomen or your arm, those things less likely to

break off and spread. So there's all these like

nuances when I hear the conversation about skin

cancer information on the different realms. Like,

oh, there's so many things there. And it's almost

like if you think of the types of skin cancer,

it's like watching movie, right? So there's,

there's a ton of different movie choices you

could do or a ton of different limited series,

right? So most skin cancers are the slow burners.

They're like, they kind of slowly will grow and

slowly show up and you're like, okay, what is

this thing? I don't know. This kind of looks

weird. Weird. It's not dry skin, you know, it's

not a pimple anymore. It's a mole that's changed.

It's kind of a slow burner. So we have like those

and then we have like the action packed. Like

this thing's growing. It's coming up like crazy.

We're going in fast and we're getting rid of it

fast and things are going on. And then there's

the happy endings, right? So there's the movies

that, you know, happy ending, everything's great,

we got it treated, we figured out what's going

on, we figured out the root. We're working on all

the things and it's not coming back. And I guess

this conversation can be about eczema too. But

most of them are mysteries. Most of them we don't

know. We don't know how each individual got to

that moment in time. We don't have all of the

information of what were they eating, what was

their lifestyle like, where did they grow up, how

much were they on an airplane, exposed to emf,

exposed to UV light, exposed to toxic engine

stuff from the fuel, exposed to all these things,

you know, were they exposed to a lot of sun when

they're driving? Because we think we're safe in

our cars, but we still get sun in our cars, even

with tinted wind windows. What, what were they

eating? What was their life like? And so part of

this is just embracing that and knowing that

sometimes things are mysterious and sometimes we

go out exploring and sometimes we get information

back and it's really helpful. And sometimes we

revel in the mystery and sometimes that's where

we land of like, I don't know how this happened.

I'm going to move forward from here and go

through what I need to do and find my path.

That's so beautiful. That's a beautiful way to

look at health in general. Right. We really just

want there to be, okay, give me the three things,

give me the three things to do and I'll be

healthy forever. And it just, we're on a non

linear trajectory here and so beautiful to hear,

to hear you look at it that way. Especially like

you have the medical background and all of the

things and you're still able to embrace the

mystery.

Dr. Michelle Jeffries: Yeah, I think, you know, we all have our own

personal health journeys too. Like you kind of

forced to at some point in your life, if you

haven't already, it's probably going to happen.

Not to, you know, wish on anybody, but it's like

we're, we're here for the experience. We're not

here very long. We're here to learn, we're here

to grow, we're here to expand, we're here to

connect. Like we're on a journey. It's like we

are, we're creating a movie here. We're a

creator. What is it? How are we going to live

today? What are we going to do today? What are we

going to explore? What are we going to be curious

about? What pathway, what doorways is that going

to open up for me today? What if I watch Sunrise

and I'm off my devices tonight? Like, how am I

going to sleep the next night? What's going to

happen? And just explain that. What is this UVA

Rise and kind of looking into it a little bit and

being willing to explore and see. Yeah.

I love it. I love it. And yeah, and to pay

attention to how our body is responding. And I

will just say your recommendation about Luno

getting spots checked out by a board certified

dermatologist. I wholeheartedly second that. We

have an integrative family physician who supports

us spending lots of time outside. But he's like,

everyone should get checked every year and if you

see anything, get rid of it, get it taken care

of. So I think that's really solid advice and I

think worth just throwing that out there to our

audience because we do love, we do love the sun.

But that is, you know, as you say, we were

infinitely mysterious and we're just so early in

understanding how, how everything really works in

the world. So. So just to wrap up, Michelle, tell

us about sort of where you are now with your

practice. You've gone through many iterations and

how can people find you?

Dr. Michelle Jeffries: Yeah, so I work in a traditional Dermatology

practice that takes insurance in Phoenix,

Arizona. It's in a suburb called Chandler. So the

name of that practice is East Valley Dermatology.

So if you're in the area and you just want to do

a skin cancer screening and schedule an

appointment, we take insurance, we do some cash

pay, but it's, you know, a traditional

dermatology practice. I've kind of come to a

point with everything else, all of the training

I've gathered and all of the things that I've

learned, that coming back to just our natural

cycles and the natural things and the cycles of

the day, working with optimizing your circadian

health, optimizing your sleep, optimizing your

skin care, figuring out that there are different

cycles that happen with our gut throughout the

day, that there's different cycles that happen

with our skin throughout the day, there's

different cycles that happen with our hormones

every month. There's all of these fascinating

cycles. And so I've put together everything

together into a concept called the skin clock

method. And it's working with aligning yourself

and figuring out where am I at with all of these

cycles, where am I at with my rhythms, where am I

at with connecting my health and my body with

nature cycles? And how can I align that? And it's

a four part series and, and it works on this

bigger cycle of life. And I call it the luminous

cycle. But basically it's like sometimes we need

to just start with a pause and see, like, where

am I at with everything? And then things kind of

start to be illuminated of what's going on with

us. So that first step is pausing and

illuminating where am I at with everything? I've

never thought about some of this stuff before,

kind of assessing all of those different clocks,

your daily clocks, your monthly clocks, and then

these bigger, wider cycles of seasonal clocks.

And then the next step is we have to make a step

of like, where are we going to emerge? What are

we going to do next? What are we going to create

with our lives? What are we going to do with all

of these things? How is it that we want to live

and making those decisions of creating and

emerging and all of these different cycles of

like, well, what do I want to do? And then the

next phase is manifesting and really living into

that and actually nurturing and sustaining those

habits, getting into those, really syncing up,

really fine tuning, really refining things. And

then we get to a point where we realize, well,

there might be some things I don't need anymore,

there might be some things that I've transcended

that maybe I don't need. And we're letting go and

we're surrendering of things. And sometimes that

lands us in another place of, okay, I gotta pause

again. I'm not quite sure what's going on again.

I just let go of something that was a big deal. I

gotta pause again. And once, you know, this cycle

of kind of illuminating things, things becoming,

emerging things being nurtured and sustained and

manifested, and things letting go. There are so

many things in our lives that do that. So our

breath does that. We have a pause in our breath.

We have an opening of the breath, we have a

releasing of the breath. We have a pause of the

breath. We have that whole cycle. Our skin goes

through that cycle. There's a daytime cycle,

there's, you know, a monthly cycle. Our hormones

go through that. As a female, menstruating

females, we have a cycle that every week we might

go through a different piece of that path. The

day is structured like that too. So we come from

sleep where we're, you know, pausing, and then

the day comes and we're illuminating the day.

We're illuminating what's happening, and then we

emerge and we kind of go out into the day of what

we're going to create. And the sun is rising, and

we're doing different things during that time.

And then we're manifesting. We're doing different

things midday and later in the day and different

activities and different things are going on as

the sun is going, going, and then transcending.

We're kind of letting go at night. Are we able to

let go of what happened during the day? Are we,

you know, able to release that day and look for

the next day? So there's all these different

cycles, and they merge together. And so bringing

that all together is how you can manifest what I

call your chrono beauty and how you're able to

align your cycles and align all of these things

manifest into who you are meant to be, who you're

meant to be, aligning with all of these things.

So that's what's next.

Gorgeous. So are you supporting patients to go to

create their or identify their personal chrono

cycles?

Dr. Michelle Jeffries: Absolutely. Whoever is interested in it, it's

foundational. It's kind of coming back to our

roots and coming back to the foundations of how

are we nourishing ourselves? How are we living

our lives? How are we handling stress? How do we

see the world? What does that come from? How are

we metabolizing life? And when we talk about

metabolizing Food and, you know, in quantum

metabolizing light is a big part of this too. But

how are we metabolizing just life in, in general?

And so some patients that I see in the clinic

are. This is not aligned with them. You know,

they're, they're not ready for this. It's not in

their vibe. It's not right. And for others, it's

like, yes. So it's, it's, it's not limited to, to

any of that. It's. It's open to who wants to

learn this, who wants to, who's ready for this,

who, who wants to step into this, this level of

healing. And it doesn't, you know, go against

doing functional medicine things because we need

that layer a lot of times, or doing traditional

dermatology and traditional medicine, we need

that too, or doing energetic work. It's

supportive of all of that. And it actually, if we

have these foundational pieces in place and we're

able to recognize these cycles and see where

maybe we're off kilter and kind of realign and

get in tune with that, it might make all those

other things go a lot easier. It might make us

more responsive to those things too. So as I've

kind of like gone out into all the trainings and

then I'm coming back home, coming back home to

all of those rooted things and.

All of those things and metabolizing them and

putting them together into their own unique

offering. That's beautiful. It's so funny you're

saying everything has this cycle because I just

launched a coaching program for, for business

owners and I had this. I was trying to think of

how to articulate something, and I had this cycle

come to me and it was like momentum, which moves

into chaos. Could be like creative chaos or it

could be the overwhelmed chaos, whatever, not

like as a neutral world. And that word. And then

that chaos pushes us to seek further clarity. And

then that clarity up levels the business, which

creates momentum, which. So, so everything is a

cycle from our breath to our business. And how

beautiful you're pulling it all together.

Dr. Michelle Jeffries: I love what you just said, because that is

another truth here, is that it keeps up leveling,

like you said, and then you come around to

another cycle, just like you said. And then what

you do now, it builds up to that next layer and

that next cycle that you come around. So just

like you said, what happens in that cycle of

coaching, it. It, you know, primes you for like

that next. And then we go through another cycle

and there's, there's so much I Don't know, like,

a sense of, like, peace of like, oh, that's where

I'm at. Here I am. I'm in the chaos. I'm in the

creative chaos.

Terrible. I'm just in a chaos phase.

Dr. Michelle Jeffries: Right. And then. But there's something after it.

And yeah, I had momentum. Like, this makes sense.

Okay. And then it just, like it allows you to

open and expand and anchor in. And then open and

expand and anchor in. So, yes. Like, you said

that so beautifully.

Oh, this is so wonderful. I love it. I'm so glad

we got to talk. Michelle. Thank you so much. And

I could. I can feel your offer resonating. I know

we're. No one's listening to us right now, but I

can feel in the quantum field, I could hear

everyone going, I want to work with Michelle. So

just to clarify that the chrono beauty piece is.

You see people virtually. It's not necessarily at

the clinic. That's a separate.

Dr. Michelle Jeffries: It's. Yeah, it's completely separate. And so it's

just an online program. It's going to be a series

of online meditation retreats that are optimized

for an optimal circadian day. And so each piece

of it is going to go through one part of the

cycle. And as you go through that cycle, you're

going to go through an optimized circadian day.

Like, we're going to have something happening at

sunrise and then at Uva rise. You know, what are

we. What are we doing now? What is our skin up to

now? What's our gut up to now? You know, all of

that. And so walking you through all those

pieces. So it's still in the. In the. I don't

know, in the ethers of creation. And so if you

join me on Instagram. Instagram @Doctor Jeffries,

or you go to my website, DrMichelleJeffries.com

or the Skin Clock method. Eventually there'll be

things where you can go on the wait list and get

signed up for it, but it's coming very, very

soon. We're putting on some of those final

touches and final evolutions of it. So thank you.

I love it. And so. And we'll put the. We'll put

the links to all of that in the show notes as

well. I'm just. Just for people who are, like,

driving and will never look at the show notes.

Dr. Michelle jeffries.com. so D R M I C H E L L E

J E F F r I e s.com or, or your Instagram. Thank

you so much. This was pleasure. Pleasure. And as

you were talking, I'm like, I have 10 more

questions about that. I have 10 more questions

about that. So we'll have to do it again.

Dr. Michelle Jeffries: Absolutely. I know. There's just so much. I was

so excited to talk to you about this podcast and

all the things. There's just so much to talk

about and so many layers. And I just. I so

appreciate all the work that you're doing, and

I'm so grateful that I came across you. As I was

looking into, gosh, I want to learn more about

quantum and circadian. What courses are

available, what. What programs are available? And

I was like, you know, going to these university

websites, I'm like, I don't want another degree.

I just. I just want to learn more. What can I do?

What conferences are available. And that is how I

stumbled on you. And so, so grateful. And I

listened to your podcast. I learned so much. It

keeps my mind open, it keeps my heart open. And I

just. I just love all that you're doing and the

rabbit holes that you go on. I'm right there with

you.

Thank you. Thank you really a lot for saying

that, because sometimes it's just like jumping

into the void. And I so appreciate your support.

I can feel it. And I'm so glad you found us. What

you're offering to the world is really

outstanding, so thanks.

Dr. Michelle Jeffries: Well, you've played a piece in it, for sure.

Thank you.

Dr. Michelle Jeffries: Thank you.