Hello again, it's Dennis welcoming you to yet another

episode of and convert.

The sales accelerator podcast where small business owners

join every week to hear the insider secrets about growing

business faster than ever.

And my partner in crime.

Hello.

We have bump free.

I'm doing great.

I hope you are.

Absolutely.

We've got another great topic today.

That is.

It's been debated for probably centuries in

some way, shape, or form.

Haven't they all have it

or purpose, profit or purpose, how best to

drive business growth.

Wow.

But before we start, you have something of interest

to share with our audience.

Yes, it involves both profit and purpose for our small

business listeners and viewers.

And really the reason why that you and producer Paul and I

are doing this podcast and it is to help business owners get

a handle on what comes next.

Absolutely.

You can email us at any time with a single question, but

there's the opportunity for a 60 minute free, I say free

discovery call where we will set up a time so that Dennis,

me, you, all, we will get together and talk about whatever

subject it is that we're going to be talking about.

interests you specific to your business and how we might be

able to help your business grow.

Don't hesitate to take advantage of this.

It is free.

Email Leah Bumfrey at wizard of ads.

com or Dennis Collins at wizard of ads.

com and we will get you on the schedule.

It will be 60 minutes.

Very well spent.

And if they're, if you're in the U S we'll get

you on the schedule.

Okay.

So just so you understand,

she's talking to Queens, English, Dennis, the schedule.

Yeah.

She's talking Canadian to us.

I'm talking

Canadian Americans.

It's that we'll get you on the schedule.

Okay.

Either way, you get the idea.

We want you on the schedule or schedule.

Okay.

Okay.

As a guy who was, okay.

honored and privileged to lead a business for over three decades.

I got to tell you, Leah, money is on your mind a lot.

Okay.

It's sometimes the biggest or the only motivator,

and that goes for big businesses, small businesses.

It's very easy to say, Let's get focused on something other

than money when you've got quarterly reviews, quarterly

reports, monthly P& Ls, profit margin reports, net operating.

Oh, it sounds awful.

That's the way business is measured these days.

Except, I found a book recently.

Here I'll show it.

Oh, I love books.

Oh, Paul probably will put it up there, but here's

Selling with a Noble Purpose.

Selling with a Noble Purpose.

I, this book is over 10 years old.

I think it's like 11 or 12 years old.

Where the heck have I been?

I have no vested interest in pitching this book other than it

will change the way you look at whatever it is you're selling.

Okay.

So let me cut to the chase.

What's the central premise of the book salespeople

and organizations who focus on making a difference,

not on making a profit.

Mind you, but making a difference in the customer's

lives rather than just hitting some sales goal or

some profit goal or whatever, tend to be more successful

in reality in the long run.

I like that.

Yeah.

McLeod Lisa Earl McLeod is the author of this book.

And she says that having a noble purpose, she calls it

a noble purpose, a mission just beyond making money can

drive better performance.

Employee engagement, customer satisfaction.

How about that?

Sounds like too good to be true, doesn't it?

She did the research on this.

Okay.

And I won't spoil it for you science nerds

and research nerds.

I won't spoil it.

It's in the book.

Okay.

It's in the book, but she proved that salespeople who

sold with a noble purpose outsold those who just sold

focused on sales goals.

How about that?

You believe that?

I

don't know.

I want to believe it.

I think that speaks to the heart of real life.

We want, that's who I am.

That's who you are.

I want to believe it too.

And yet it is so hard, Leah, in day to day, when you have owners

breathing down your neck, when you have investors breathing

down your neck, when you have salespeople breathing down your

neck, I need to make more money.

I need more commission.

It turns it into money.

So it takes what, from what I can what I've experienced.

It takes a very disciplined mind.

But Lisa Earl McLeod helps us here.

Okay, so here's some examples.

The questions she poses are just amazing.

What goes on in the minds of top performing

companies and salespeople?

What's going on?

Is it a profit motivation?

Or is it a purpose motivation?

Do you want to make a difference for your customer?

Do you think what you sell whatever it is makes a

difference for a customer?

What's the old story?

There was some guy.

I think this was in Europe somewhere who was

building you know, who was making a brick wall.

Okay.

And you know, you've watched bricklayers.

They take the mortar and they slap it down.

They put a brick down.

They slap more mortar.

They put it down.

They slap, you know, it's pretty robotic, right?

Yep.

And this guy.

There were two guys doing this, and he asked one of the guys, he

said, Hey, what are you doing?

He said, I'm laying bricks.

That's what I do all day long.

Hundreds, if not thousands of bricks.

One, two, I just lay bricks.

Good.

He asked the other guy, he says, What are you doing?

He says I am building something that will be a memorial.

It's going to celebrate certain things and people.

I am building a testimonial to some great people.

And that's it.

All that I'm laying these bricks is not about laying bricks.

It's about what this represents to people.

It has a meaning.

It has a purpose.

And how about that bricklaying, you know,

so one guy had a purpose.

The other guy had a job.

Interesting.

So let's in my research, what I'm finding here,

a software company.

Okay.

How do your products improve efficiency?

And work life balance rather than just touting the

features and cost savings.

How about a financial advisor?

We all have financial advisors, some better than others.

How about educating clients and helping them

achieve their goals?

Not just selling a product.

Oh, here's a stock you can buy, or here's a, here's an

annuity you can buy, you know.

No.

How about health care?

How about an equipment manufacturer?

I have a good buddy who's in the health care business.

He sells a piece of equipment that helps nurses lift heavy

patients out of their beds, so they don't break their

back trying to do that.

Okay, so he could sell that as a medical device.

Now what he sells that is, hey, nurses, I can help save you

time, effort, broken backs, days off work because you're injured,

lifting a heavy patient.

I can make your life easier.

So which salesperson, Leah, would you rather talk to?

Oh, the person who's painting a picture of the why for

their product, not just the specifics of the product.

But can you think so few actually do this?

I don't.

What we're talking about today is earthshaking,

but difficult to do it.

It's Dennis.

It's all about focus.

The organization, the management team, the structure

of a business is going to be focused on something.

And it is really obvious to everyone working within an

organization, salespeople, production, people, techs.

If the focus is just on profits and that's what their

profit is going to be on.

I had a good friend and she worked I got it.

It does.

I had a good friend who worked at a restaurant

and this restaurant, people loved going to it.

Like their lunches were always packed and it was working class

guys like your brick layers.

And all of a sudden the management team decided that

the kitchen staff were going to be paid on P and L, right?

Oh, I was going out.

All of a sudden, all of a sudden those plates.

With the mounds of French fries, which were very

important to these guys that were coming in and

leaving their shovel outside.

Instead of it being a mound of French fries,

they were pulling it off.

They were, Oh, no, that's too many.

Oh, no, we're only giving this much.

Oh, no, this.

Oh, no, that.

Even their glasses for pop, even though the small pop looked like

this and the large pop looked like that, they were the same.

People started realizing That there was only

focus on money going in

cutting costs, cutting cutting serving size.

It's not only your salespeople where this ends up happening.

So if there's going to be that kind of focus and

that kind of training, it's going to be what happens.

So have you ever, Leah, in your wonderful career that

was detailed, by the way, if you haven't heard her episode

telling her story, you've got to look that one up.

That was a gem.

That may be one of the best.

But, At any time during that journey, did you ever have

this concept brought to you?

I mean, you may have thought it yourself, but did it ever

come from the top of the organization that you were

working with at the time?

You know, there's a story that comes into my head and it

wasn't for an organization I was working for, but for one

that I was applying for and they wanted, it was a sales, it was

an entry level sales position.

I was really excited.

I was, you know, I was going to be doing this.

Yeah.

And one of the questions they asked was, why did

you apply for the job?

Why did you want it?

And I was talking about your product and about the

company and how excited I was and how I loved working

with people and everything.

And they kept asking and kept asking.

They told me after I didn't get the job because I missed

the answer to the question.

The answer was supposed to be that I wanted to make money.

Oh yes.

I'm awfully glad I didn't end up Getting that position

and, you know, you brought, you've already brought back

some memories of that, that if that was the preferred answer,

if you were interviewing for a sales job, I want to make money.

So

instead of, I want to make a difference.

I'm going to interrupt you.

It never dawned on me.

Oh,

yeah, here he is.

We've done something wrong, Leah.

No, not at all.

I love that story, Leah.

That's, I should see my reaction.

That's a shame.

Honestly, I'm going to tell a little bit of story

myself in regards to one of my clients that had You

know, you read those mission statements and all those that

kind of go, okay whatever.

Changed that mission statement and we made it a part of the

interview process, asking for value based interview

question or doing value based interview questions.

And that changed everything.

And as you said, at the very top of this podcast, Dennis,

that it takes a disciplined.

CEO, owner, whatever, to go through this process.

But because of that, and we can tie it directly back to

the mission statement, the communication of the mission

statement and the interviews that we did, they were growing

over a six year period on average, about 32 percent

over year, just based on that.

And they were a purpose driven organization.

They were a they thought they were purpose driven and they

were, but we tweaked it some more to make it even more

purpose driven and even more.

Poignant of, yeah, this is what we do.

It is not about money.

The money came after

that is, but isn't that such a heart, particularly for a

person who is on a commission, has a commission sales job,

There's no base salary.

There's no income until you sell something, right?

I don't know today how many more of those are left.

I know in the radio business that I grew up

in, that was how the radio business paid salespeople.

So naturally they didn't eat.

If they didn't sell so money was very high on their mind,

and it was very difficult to get them to say, Oh, I'm here.

This isn't a package of radio spots.

This is a solution to one of your biggest problems

and that is you need to be more well known.

Nobody knows who you are, and they're not going

to come in here unless they know who you are.

And I'm gonna add to that Dennis.

Wow.

Oh, yes.

This is a very important topic to me.

The so I've been doing research for a long time

actually about and you both of you probably know about

the book called pendulum.

It's also based off of another one called generations.

One of the authors, the other author passed away,

unfortunately has a new book out called the fourth turning

and in that they are talking about, and this was already

predicted that right now.

Especially with the younger generations, they're looking for

companies who put purpose first.

If you

are not putting your purpose first, if you're not putting

it out there beyond money, it's harder to recruit.

You're going to spend more money trying to recruit

these people because they don't see, they see money.

They see the fact that this owner is about the money.

Not about the purpose.

Say that again.

They see the evidence that the owner is about

money and not purpose.

Is that what you said?

That's exactly what I said.

Okay.

And so that kind of supports what Leah was saying is this

starts at the very top, right?

Absolutely.

This starts with ownership, senior level management,

sales management, et cetera.

Absolutely.

Yes.

So Paul, Leah, in your opinions, you both have

experience in this field.

What are we doing wrong?

And I include myself in this, what are we doing wrong?

How can we get this message out there?

Of course, having not even heard of this book until

recently, that's shameful.

Okay.

To me.

And I mean, I keep up on these things and I didn't

even know it existed.

Okay.

What's going on?

That's stopping it.

I think that we have to get back to the basics of,

it's not about telling.

Why am I telling people?

Show me.

Don't tell me.

This will help you with your hiring process.

It helps with what people see within an organization.

If, top down, it's being shown that this is what's important.

Make making a difference.

People will, there's a bit of a idea that you got to, you

know, go up on your soap box.

That, that's not noble.

That's going like this.

Leah, is that one of those soft skills that we hear about?

You know, we don't train in soft skills.

We train in hard skills that help us make money.

That stuff about purpose and making a difference

and all that woo foo stuff.

That's soft skills.

But you know what, it always comes down to

me, what you believe is what you're going to do.

So if you believe that, you're going to just continue

to focus on money and you're going to make money.

But if you really do believe that by making a difference,

you are going to be able to help people and you have a

product that, that will help businesses, you inevitably,

you will make money.

It's what Paul said.

You make a difference, you make a name or you

make money, pick one.

And I pick the difference.

And you asked that question, Dennis One of the techniques

that again, it requires a lot of discipline on the owner's

part is to let go is to let your employees tell you

what matters to them within the business and what they

hear in the front lines of what is the purpose behind.

What you offer let go of the reins and let

your employees drive it

It's scary,

but it's a lot of business

owners are scared to do that

Paul.

Don't

you think?

Absolutely, they are and it's because of the eras

that they grew up It is a societal thing for owners to

be the boss the guy the woman

Yeah, this is my domain here.

Yeah.

And

I say, not as I exactly, yes.

And so for my experience with telling owners let go.

Yeah, they are scared crapless and they don't know what to do.

And that's actually not now I am self promoting

a little bit, but.

You know what?

Who cares?

That's where the three of us comes in, come in

regards to helping owners understand and step through

that process of letting go.

And by letting go the profits come in, the

profits start rolling in.

You know, we're sponsored by wizardacademy.

org.

And part of the reason is this is taught at wizardacademy.

org, but going farther to the roots.

Do Roy and Penny when they started wizard of ads.

com when they started that there were, they promoted free

talks about how businesses could help themselves.

They would rent rooms, they would supply coffee.

This was about bringing people in, they would have

free there's still lots and lots of free products that

you can access that will help you get where you're going.

That's where it started.

This is a huge organization.

They placed billions of dollars worth of advertising every year.

It didn't start there, but their motivation was

absolutely to make a difference for small businesses.

It was.

Yeah,

that's where it started.

Excellent example.

Yeah, that's excellent example.

I'm glad you brought that one up for a number of reasons.

So let's try if we might to give our viewers, our

listeners, some action steps.

You want to give it a try?

Taking your business from good to outstanding.

Define that noble purpose.

What is it that Your product or your service.

How does it make a difference?

A positive difference in your customers life

or in their business.

How about like Paul and Leah both said align the team.

It's got to start at the top, but everyone has to understand

and have buy into this.

What I hear you guys saying is reframing conversations,

reframing sales conversations, not what can I sell you?

How can I help you?

That's a tough one.

A lot of small business owners will not identify with that.

Nah, baloney.

It's not how I can help you.

It's what can I sell you?

I have stories.

Maybe we'll tell those in another podcast.

And how do you measure the impact?

I mean, it's easier, isn't it guys to measure sales?

You either are up, down or sideways.

You know exactly where you saw more, you saw

less, the same, whatever.

How do you measure selling with a purpose?

If Ms.

Lisa McLeod is correct, you measure it in a

huge, increases in sales.

Her theory is, as Leah said, as Paul said, mind

making the difference.

The sales will follow, but it takes courage, doesn't it?

I'll be honest with you.

I never really wrestled well with that when I was general

managing for all those years.

We, Touched on it.

But as I look back, that's one of my regrets.

I wish we had done more with that.

Oh, and don't beat yourself up, Dennis.

It's kind of counterintuitive though.

It's like the person who is focused focused

on being on a diet.

So they lose weight and they end up gaining weight.

It's because if you're focusing on the wrong things, the

ultimate outcome that you're running for and wanting, you're

actually running away from it.

That's true.

Wow.

Yeah, that's a lot of things.

I have one more thing to put in there.

I have one more thing to put in there.

You talk about the finance the growth and such.

And one thing I love about what the three of us do and

the other Wizard of Ed's partners, but what we do

is of course, yes, we have those uncovery conversations.

We have our 60 minutes upfront conversation.

Hey, are we, you know, are we even, can we help you or

whatnot, but the way our fee is structured is a long term

discipline relationship.

Yep.

Our fees go up and down based off of the growth or

the decline of our client.

And I've had that a few times, not very many, let me tell you,

but I've had a few declines.

Our job is to help you grow our, we're not going to do anything.

We don't believe in.

If it's going to hurt us because it does hurt us sometimes if

we don't do the right thing.

It is a long term disciplinary relationship between us

because it matters because we know that the most, the

one thing that matters to a business is finances is money.

Can you stay in business?

Our job is to help you grow faster.

How do we do that?

We don't focus on the money, but we get measured by the income.

Nothing else.

The transaction that we have to sell through is that making

a difference in the lives of your customers makes a

difference on your bottom line.

Okay.

What a great discussion, guys.

Thank you very much.

I I hope, I think we're going to do more on this.

I get the sense that there's more we can say, especially

from producer Paul.

I think producer Paul has more, so we'll work on some

more episodes on this one, but Any final thoughts, Leah?

We have one really good question about recruiting

new hires, but you know what?

Let's hold off till next time.

We want to give everybody a reason to come back.

Absolutely.

A little mystique, right?

Okay, kids, it's been fun.

This wraps this edition of Connect and Convert.

We release a new episode every week, so make sure

you tune in every week.

Connect and Convert.