00:00:07 Nazish: Many of us carry the exhaustion of performing the performing competence, performing confidence, performing calm at. At some point we begin to wonder what would it feel like to stop performing in Simply Be Sincere. Today we explore that question and what it means for our inner peace and our overall well-being.

00:00:31 Nazish: Welcome to inner peace, better health, the space where we explore the deep connection between alignment and overall well-being. I am your host and today I am joined by Joshua Roth, author of the S word and the creator of Saude Framework A Guide to Rebuilding trust and sincerity in the world that often rewards polish over honesty. Joshua has an extraordinary background as a professional sword swallower and founder of course. Circus kaput. He brings decades of insight into what people can instantly sense when they are performing versus when you are real. In this episode, we explore how sincerity impacts our mental and emotional health, our leadership, and our relationship. Welcome to the show, Joshua.

00:01:28 Joshua Routh: Thank you so much for having me. It's very nice to talk to you.

00:01:32 Nazish: Wonderful. So, Joshua, before we dive into Paper Framework and the book, I am curious, when did you first realize that performance, whether on stage or in life, wasn't the same as sincerity?

00:01:47 Joshua Routh: Oh, I think when I made it so much about my own ego, uh, I find that as a performer, I've been performing for over thirty years, and there was a huge part of my time. And I talk about this in the book, my very first show I ever performed. I thought that if I put on a tuxedo and I bought the magic tricks and I sold myself for a certain amount of money, and I had an audience, that that was it. I was a professional magician. And I came to find out that the audience soon started chanting, you suck, you suck, you suck! About fifteen minutes into the show and I realized that I had lost them. I realized that they were not connected to me. They were not connected to the performance. They didn't really care what I did, and it was because I came at it from a place of my own ego and needing validation for what I was doing, as opposed to really seeing and witnessing these people and engaging with them on a deeper level. So I find that as an entertainer, when I go heart first, when I try to connect with people first, when I try to connect with my audience first, or anyone that I see in the world when I connect with them, with my my true heart, and I really see them and try to engage with them first, as opposed to trying to get them to see me, which I think is the world that we live in nowadays. So much of our world is about look at me, look at me, look at me. And there's so much emptiness in that. And I find that there's a broader strength and power in really seeing other people and allowing them to feel seen and feel connected with.

00:03:37 Nazish: That sounds absolutely beautiful, you know? And that distinction feels really powerful. The difference between entertaining an audience and actually connecting with them is really crucial. And I imagine that realization just, uh, you know, didn't just shape your career, but your inner life as well.

00:03:57 Joshua Routh: Absolutely. Um, you know, it's the reason why my wife's friends all love me.

00:04:04 Nazish: That sounds like a real deal, I must say.

00:04:07 Joshua Routh: Yes. Well, you know, again, in your everyday life, we see people all the time, but we don't really see them. We see them as sometimes an obstacle to get past or, uh, the next transaction that we have to make. But rarely do we see them as, as human beings. And I find that when we do the result, it's so much more powerful in our everyday life. And and it doesn't take much to really help someone to be seen or to generally see other people. It just it means making the effort. It's almost manners in a lot of ways. It's what we were taught by our parents to put other people first. And along the way, as a world, we've forgotten that other people matter. And it's not just about us getting ours and getting our needs met, that if we're there for other people, we all rise up together.

00:05:09 Nazish: Yes, that is absolutely true. And, you know, let's just stay with that for a moment. You know, many of us assume that if we appear confident, composed and polished, that means we we are doing well personally and professionally. What is the biggest misconception people have about performance and confidence?

00:05:32 Joshua Routh: You bring up a really good point that people craft that appearance of success. You see a lot of these. I know everyone in the world has seen these, uh, YouTube videos where a guy is standing next to a flashy car and he's wearing an expensive suit, and he's saying things like, buy my system and you can be just like me. And many of those people rented those cars for the day. It's not really their car. I doubt many of them even own that suit. And I find that this idea that we have to appear busy to everyone, that we're just so busy. How are you? I'm just so busy all the time. That's become the the phrase that everyone uses. I'm. I'm just so busy. And in many ways, that's a complaint that we're giving to someone so that they feel sorry for us. It doesn't give them the result of, wow, they're very successful in many ways. I'd feel bad for that person. And and I think the reality is the truth of who we are. And when we speak the truth of what we're going through and the truth of our existence, I think that resonates with people much more deeply. And I think when we see the truth of what other people are going through and connect our we form a bridge from, from our experience to that other person. Beyond the cliche of authenticity, because authenticity is a real important thing, but so much in our world it's been twisted to to be. That's just who I am. This is just who I am, as opposed to really being authentic in the sense that this is my heart. I see your heart. Let's connect our hearts together. That's that's where sincerity comes in. And and that's how it becomes a bridge.

00:07:32 Nazish: You know. And what tends to happen internally when someone keeps choosing polish over sincerity, you know, what does that do to their nervous system or sense of self over time?

00:07:48 Joshua Routh: Yeah. What it does to their nervous system and their sense of self. You start to have identity crises. You've heard about imposter syndrome and fake it till you make it and those sorts of things. And we all do it. I'm not claiming to be a guru here. I'm not claiming to float above everyone else. This is a practice that I try to live, that I again, it's a practice. It's not a perfection. I have not perfected this. There are many days where I still live in that land of Polish, especially as a performer. I'm often put in a position where I have to sell myself to other people, and we all have to sell ourselves to a certain degree. When we wear certain outfits or look a certain way, or write a certain resume with a certain kind of spin, there is a large amount of that. That is us selling ourselves. When we do that, there can be truth behind that, and there can be a truth in those statements. But if we're not really able to back that up. We live with that anxiety and that fear, and so much of the anxiety in the world today, I believe, is because we're all pretending so much. And instead of instead of really focusing on what you are is enough. You are enough already. As a human being, you are worthy of respect just by the virtue of existence. You deserve respect. You don't have to put so much on it. And and I think that when we turn the volume down, especially in the United States where I live, we've turned the volume up so much, we've put so much sugar and smack and loud and boom and bang on everything. It's hard to compete with. There's not a gentleness to just being okay with being okay. I'm just okay and that's okay. And I think that the stress and the cortisol levels and the anxiety that people live with having to compete with that noise every day, I think if we all just took a breath and turned the volume down a little bit, our sanity, our mental health, our physical health would all be so much better.

00:10:17 Nazish: Absolutely. I couldn't agree more to it, you know? So what I'm hearing is that performance might win applause, but it often cost us authenticity. And over time, that disconnects us quietly erode our inner inner peace.

00:10:33 Joshua Routh: I love that. Can I write that down?

00:10:35 Nazish: Yeah. You're gonna hear it soon.

00:10:38 Joshua Routh: Um, I'm going to use that again. And again. That's wonderful.

00:10:41 Nazish: Yeah. So I'm curious about the deeper layers here. Like, why do so many of us learn to perform in first place? Like, is it a cultural conditioning, fear of rejection or professional pressure.

00:10:55 Joshua Routh: I think all of those things, I think we learn it when we were children. At a certain point, there's, uh, not to get too into Maslow's hierarchy of needs. And, and all of, of, you know, the stages of emotional growth and things. I feel like as children, we start out not really realizing that there are other people, and other people have feelings too, and other people exist. Mostly we're concerned with ourselves and our own needs. You think about a baby all they really care about. They don't care about how much sleep you get tonight. They just want what they want when they want it, because you're a source of getting their needs met. And then at a certain point around puberty, we start to realize that other people have feelings and thoughts. And so we start to question, well, what are they thinking about me? What if they're thinking this about me? What if they're thinking that about me? And when that money comes in, then we start to have a little more dramatic fear. And then what does my boss think about me? Or what is my romantic partner think about me? Or what do my children think about me? And so we start to craft personas. A persona that we show to our boss. A persona we show to our romantic partner. A persona we show to our children. And when we craft all these personas, it's almost like that lie that you have to keep up with. I don't know if my if your mother ever told you this, but my mother always told me this as a child. She said, uh, don't tell lies, because then you have to keep up with what story you're telling everyone and keep up the lie and be able to, uh, know who you lied to and what you said, what to, and so on and so forth. And and it really always stuck in my head. Yeah. It's a it's a job to keep track of who I am in front of what person and how I appear to this person? And what happens if they they meet and we're in the grocery store, we're walking through there and my boss is there, my romantic partner is there. Who who am I going to be in that moment? And and so playing all those characters and yes, it's important to be able to be a different person in different environments. We have to have our professional self. That is absolutely true. My lawyer is also a part time magician. I don't need him going to court on my behalf and doing a magic trick for the judge. I don't need that. That's not. I need him to be the lawyer when he's the lawyer. But there is a sense of the stories that we tell and the presentation that we may give because we want to impress someone. That's the that's the part that I think becomes exhausting. Creating anxiety, creating fear when we're when we're pretending to impress as opposed to showing a facet of ourselves because I can. I have a facet of myself that is my professional self. I have a facet of myself that is a loving husband. Those are facets of myself. But when my but you, anyone who is married knows that when you're dating you are one person. When you are a newlywed, you are another person. But after about five years, you're walking around in your underwear. You know, we we become a little bit something else, you know, and that I think that's when the real you comes out. And that's what tests the marriage. I think that's why many marriages struggle at around seven years, because people stop pretending and they go, this is who I am. Get used to it, you know?

00:14:38 Nazish: Absolutely. It makes so much sense, you know, that awareness feels so crucial. It's almost like we have rehearsed a role for so long that we forgot we are acting?

00:14:50 Joshua Routh: Yes, exactly. Exactly.

00:14:52 Nazish: So, yeah. So how does this performance habit show up in workplace families and even friendships.

00:15:00 Joshua Routh: In the workplace? For sure, it shows up in our relationships with our clients, with our coworkers, with our bosses, especially because we often seek the approval of our bosses. We try to impress them. We try to impress our coworkers, typically for power, for a power dynamic. And in friend relationships, often we get stuck in this idea that we have to solve a problem for our friend or fix them, or, uh, be the best friend that they can have. Because inevitably we all want to be the best friend. We all inevitably want to be the one that our friend calls, uh, because we want we want that deep sense of connection with other people. So much of it comes down to a need for connection with others that we want others to see us, but we also want them to know. Deep down, I think we all want others to know that, that they are seen by us as well, that we truly see them. It just gets lost. This is not new. These are not new topics. These are not new things that I've come up with. I didn't invent anything. Sincerity has been around for thousands of years as a topic in every culture in the world. And in my book, there's a whole chapter that goes through the history of sincerity around the world and across history. It really goes back to in ancient Rome, people were selling pots in the marketplace, or this is a story that they tell that the pots were leaky pots, but they would use wax to cover the holes and the dents in the pot. But as soon as you poured hot water on it, all that wax would melt and you would see the floors. And when they when a pot didn't have all the fake wax, it was called sincera, which meant without wax. And so that's where the word or as the legend goes, sincerity comes from, from that sincera without wax. And I think when we show up in those relationships, often we put on wax. I mean, what is makeup? When we put on makeup, I put on makeup to go on a stage sometimes because I'm hiding my flaws. Or maybe I have a zit. I need you to see the best version of myself. And we know when we we dress up to go on a date, we're putting on a version of ourselves. And when that shows up there, it's important to dress up. In some ways it shows respect for the other person. But on the other hand, it can be very exhausting for ourselves to maintain that. And and that's I think the reality is when we allow others to show up as their best selves and we show up as our best selves, that's when that's when the real joy can happen. People in the workplace, when they feel really seen by the people that they work with and really seen by their, their, their bosses. They show up with better ideas. They show up with, with better, uh, connection to the job, the vocation. They care about their job. They care about their coworkers. They care about those things as opposed to it being something that they just do to pay their bills.

00:18:23 Nazish: I absolutely agree with that. You know, there's something profound there. Our bodies and intuition often know before our minds do, and we can feel when something is slightly off. And you know that subtle misalignment impacts safety, connection and ultimately our well-being.

00:18:44 Joshua Routh: Absolutely. Absolutely.

00:18:47 Nazish: So let's talk about the sword. S w o r d framework from your book without giving everything away. What's one core principle from that framework that helps someone move from performance to sincerity?

00:19:02 Joshua Routh: Oh, it's so hard for me to talk about it and not give it all away. It's it's it all goes together and and I don't I honestly don't even mind sharing the framework because I feel like it all connects one to the next, to the next to next. And it starts with the S, which is for self-awareness, spending time knowing who you are. So that that's that's the true self that you present beyond authenticity with the mind that you are going to connect with others. And then it goes into witness. Now we're going to see other people. W is for witness. And that's really seeing and taking time to see others, not with our preconceived notions or preconceived judgments, but really seeing other people for who they are and what their real needs are. And then it goes into openness, which is the oh, which is all about not planting a flag. We get stuck and saying that this is the way things should be. And when we do that, we shut out other ideas and we find it harder to connect with other people because we're stuck in our past. And often that's when we made a mistake and we plant a flag and say, I'm not going to budge from this. I have this opinion, and that opinion will never change. And you and I both know, and everyone who's listening to this knows that science is always changing. The world is always changing. Our understanding of things is always changing. And the only reason to plant a flag is to say that nothing will ever change. My opinion should never change, and we need to be open to the fact that things are always changing and we have to be prepared for that and open to that. The wisest people are the ones that change their mind. And if we allow people to change their mind, we're all so much better for that. And that goes into repair, which is the R. When we make a mistake, we repair it. When we've done something wrong, we repair it immediately. There's the classic example of a sincere apology, and a sincere apology is really about admitting that you were wrong, that you did something wrong, you said something wrong, and then changing, not just trying to. If you do something wrong at work, don't bring everybody pastries or buy them all lunch to make up for it. They don't care about those things. Yes, that's nice if you bring everyone donuts. But but really, what your coworkers want, what your boss wants, is for for you to change. Just change. If you really are sorry for what you did, then change. And that may take some work. That may take going to therapy, that may take getting a mentor. That may take reading a book. It may take some action on your part to actively change it. And people are forgiving when they know that you are actively trying to change. If you make a mistake again, if you relapse again, people are often much more forgiving than we think. So as long as we are taking that effort to change that, that is primarily the most important thing. And then finally D is for debrief, which is where every day you ask yourself a series of questions, did I do good enough today? What can I do better tomorrow? Is there someone I owe an apology to? Is there somebody I didn't witness today? Is there something I wasn't being true to myself today? How can I do better tomorrow? And that's all it is. It's just wrapping it up into a nice, neat package and saying, here are the steps that I take. And I tried it today. I made those practices today. How can I do better tomorrow?

00:22:35 Nazish: Absolutely. That is such a beautiful reflection, I must say. You know, and I appreciate how grounded this is. It is not about dramatic confession or tearing everything down. It is about small, intentional acts of honesty that bring us back into alignment.

00:22:52 Joshua Routh: Yep. Exactly. Very much so.

00:22:55 Nazish: So, you know, if I were to distill today's conversation into one sentence, it would be this. That inner peace begins when we trade the need to look good for the courage to be sincere.

00:23:11 Joshua Routh: Absolutely.

00:23:13 Nazish: Yes, yes. So, Joshua, where can our listeners learn more about your work and your book, the S word?

00:23:20 Joshua Routh: Currently, the book the S word is available worldwide on Amazon. Uh, and you can also find me at Joshua Ruth. That's j o s h u a r o u t h dot com. There's links there. I write articles, uh, Articles quite a bit and I post them on LinkedIn. You can find me at Joshua Routh on LinkedIn, and I also post those same articles on my website under media. I'm also on medium and on Substack, so you can follow. I post a lot of articles, tell stories my book has, every chapter is a story and then core content after that. So you can follow along through each of the stories and content that I write on my newsletter. And as well read the book, because I think it's good. I really think it's a great book. I'm proud of this one. This is my second book, so I'm really, really proud of this one. I like this one a lot.

00:24:20 Nazish: Absolutely. I will make sure that all these links are included in the show notes, so a lot of people can reach out to you. Thank you so much for spending your time with us on inner peace, better health. It is an absolutely amazing and grounding conversation with you.

00:24:36 Joshua Routh: Thank you so much. I really enjoyed the conversation. Thank you very, very much.

00:24:40 Nazish: And your listeners. In a world that often rewards performance, choosing sincerity in a quiet act of courage, it often it softens the nervous system, it rebuilds the trust, and it brings us back to ourselves. So thank you so much for joining us on inner Peace, better health. And if today's conversation resonated, share it with someone who might need permission to stop performing and start being real. So until next time me. You move gently, speak honestly and choose with fields with truth within.