What is burnout?

You may have heard of it, you might be wondering if you're going through

it, but what does burnout really mean?

In this episode, you'll learn what burnout is and how to spot it, how to get back on

track or prevent burnout if you think you might already be going through it, and

how to progress your career in a calmer way and stick around to the end where

our guest shares a framework to help you thrive in your career without burning out.

Welcome to Architecture Business Club, the show that helps you build

a better business in architecture so you can enjoy more freedom,

flexibility, and fulfillment.

I'm your host, John Clayton, and if you're joining us for the first time, don't

forget to hit the follow or subscribe button so you never miss another episode.

We're joined by Anna Vola.

A career and wellbeing coach who helps architects and leaders achieve and earn

more Anna's approach, helps reduce stress, prevent burnout, and create a sustainable

values driven definition of success.

We are going to talk about burnout so that architects and business leaders

can recognize it and hopefully avoid it from happening in the first place.

So I think that a good place for us to begin would be if you could share

your thoughts on what is burnout.

Burnout is not a mental health condition.

Um, there is misunderstanding around it.

So very important thing, and the other very important thing is

that, We see burnout as a, as a problem, as a exhaustion, uh,

in the end of a burnout journey.

What we experience is a physical, mental, emotional exhaustion as

a ending point when, person, uh, is really, really tired of not

functioning, at their best, basically.

But that's the end of the story that, let's say not the end of the

story, but, uh, like closer to the end of the cycle because we need to

understand that the burnout is a cycle that occurs in our life, um, over and

over again if it is not addressed.

And, uh, we might find ourselves in different, um, moments in this cycle,

uh, in the moments when we are feeling a little bit tired, but it's okay.

Let's say we function, we go to work, but then it's getting worse

and getting worse and getting worse.

And in the end we feel really exhausted.

And we might find this, we might feel it at the end of the year,

for example, as if we are finding ourselves now in the end of the year.

Um, but it can also occur, uh, monthly around the deadlines, um,

or in specific circumstances when other people emotions are impacting

us and drain, draining us out.

but very important is to understand it's re reoccurring.

Being reoccurring pattern, reoccurring cycle in our life.

And, uh, what I also want to mention is that, um, burnout is a misalignment

between who you really are with what, uh, you actually doing on the surface.

The most important thing in the source and the core of it is, , person who is

experiencing a burnout, um, approaching life from their own values, needs,

dreams, goals, or, and expectations or someone else's expectations.

Someone else's needs, someone else's goals.

Here there's oftentimes a misunderstanding, uh, because we are in

different, uh, style of relationships and we want to meet someone else's

needs and expectations at work.

Um, the goals of the company business, for example, right?

Or, uh, in personal relationships it's very similar, oftentimes, and

people who are having this, tendency to burn out, prioritizing other

people expectations, expectations, needs, goals, uh, uh, over their own.

if that happens and, uh, happens over and over again, Your needs are not met.

That person who has tendency to burn out, uh, needs are not met.

Uh, expectations and goals are also not aligned with, uh, let's

say company expectations, goals, uh, uh, of the business, uh,

or, uh, other person as well.

Expectations in relationships, then that becomes a problem because then,

um, we are operating, that person is operating on the level of all of

someone else's world and expectations and needs and goals, not their own.

So is that, is misalignment, uh, and burnout occurs oftentimes then, that is,

uh, very problematic because then we, um, we have that constant pressure and stress,

and that's internal and external as well, because of the expectations and needs of

orders and, then body starts to give in.

We have a science first or another, signs of the burnout, physical, emotional, and

mental and life, uh, work life balance, uh, management difficulty as well, which

actually leads us to procrastination and not being able to meet our own

goals, our own needs, and not feeling fulfilled and, and not enjoying life.

where does burnout differ from stress?

Because I think there's some confusion, um, between.

mm

What is the difference between those two?

You know, when, when you know, when is somebody experiencing burnout

and when is it stress and, and like, what's the difference between the two?

I think starting with stress, uh, stress on day-to-day basis helps us to

address challenges, staying creative, staying upbeat, uh, responding to

every day, uh, responsibilities and anything that will come our way.

And it's a, it's something we experience in our body that, uh, um, makes us feel

motivated and energized to take action.

it doesn't block, um, our ability, uh, to use our full potential and skills

and being creative in approaching, uh, everyday responsibilities and challenges.

and if we have on day-to-day basis, let's say stress at work.

We come to work, we have some stressful situation.

We deal with the situation, and we have time in the end of the day for recovery,

mental, physical, and emotional recovery.

Then we are having this act of bouncing back, uh, with a new

refreshed and energy and creativity for when we go again next day to work.

And we are having another, day of, of challenges and, and, uh, problem solving.

Um, and we have energy for it, and we have a motivation for it.

That's the healthy, normal stress that is our human being nature.

the problem occurs, uh, when stress becomes, uh, something

permanent that, that we don't deal, uh, with on day-to-day basis.

And it's.

Prolonging is going from one day to another and then becomes more permanent.

And that's the stress that we experience and the pressure, as I

said before, external externally from the challenges that we are facing.

And internal, also also pressure that I was mentioning about, uh, uh, when

we are living in that misalignment being all constantly all the time in

that those expectations of the company bosses, other people without addressing

our own needs, uh, when that stress is accumulating and we don't have a, a

chance to recover, body starts to give in.

And we have a science of a mental, physical, emotional exhaustion, And

then we are not able to, uh, after a while to meet our own goals, with

ease, with enjoyment, with motivations,

And the burnout, as I said, is, uh, with burnout.

If it goes too far and too long, sometimes, um, individuals don't feel

motivated to go to work at all or feeling in the morning, uh, waking up exhausted.

or not being able to even, even stand up like, in the morning.

I would say the, the final sign, but that starts much, much, earlier.

And as I said, um, it becomes a problematic when we, it

starts with not coping with the stress on day-to-day basis.

and when it's prolonged That line is crossed.

And then we are going into the burnout more than healthy coping with stress.

so it sounds like that, um, some stress as long as we get

the chance to recover from it.

Can be a good thing if it can help us to, to motivate us to get things done.

It's not necessarily something bad, but it's this prolonged stress without

the um, without the recovery time that can then lead into burnout.

So, Anna, what are some of the telltale signs of burnout that you've seen?

As, uh, so there are five areas, the most common, is physical areas.

You, I think physical is the, the first one we are noticing something is not okay.

Um, and, uh.

It is chronic fatigue, um, sleep change, uh, pattern or,

uh, pain headache, for example.

for a female, it can be worsening.

Menopausal or, um, uh, just men menstrual, uh, symptoms and stomach gut issues.

Um, in psychological area, we have, um, a feeling of

hopelessness, um, forgetfulness, lack of clarity and brain fog.

That's also quite common.

Uh, anxiety and sensitivity to criticism.

And also what I, um, often, uh, see with my clients is a skepticism.

Because there are many more signs of the burnout.

It depends on the individual person.

So I've mentioned physical, psychological, and there is behavioral as well.

Responsiveness to emotion, um, is more sensitive.

Being highly emotional, there's a difficulty with managing anger, uh,

change in a diet, uh, oftentimes like a binge eating or not eating

at all, skipping meals, skipping lunch, for example, keeping

obsessive control and occupational.

That's what, uh, uh, what, uh, is very important, especially for my clients,

is reduce their job satisfaction and losing passion for work.

The fire and the creativity as well.

Losing confidence, um, not speaking up on the meetings or sharing ideas.

Uh, making more mistakes, uh, and attention to detail can also sleep

out, in personal is breaking down.

Uh, break breakdown in relationships, less, uh, social engagement and,

um, a sense of not doing a good job, uh, at work and, and home.

There's much more, and as I said, it depends on the individual person.

It's important to spot what is not.

As we would like to, um, feel and be, um, in our, in those areas.

That's the key.

Anna, what do you think are the most common causes of burnout?

for, um, the many professionals who are experiencing a burnout is

organizational change I mean, the certain amount of fear and uncertainty

there, um, lack of transparency and in the workload, um, unrealistic

deadlines, for example, are doing at.

Double work because there is a lack of resource, at the moment

for, for individual who is experiencing a burnout, lack of

comp, compatibility with environment.

That's very often very common.

Um, lack of compatibility with environments, with the, with

the culture of the company, with the vision, with the projects.

For example for architects, that's very important to have an impact

to, to be, um, uh, in the topic that they're really passionate about.

Um, feeling invisible, unheard, unseen.

Not having a good relationships, let's say with the bosses when the

managers not being heard, really.

Um, not being able to also voice ideas, feeling like, like.

There is a lack of communication there.

Uh, but that is also tied to, uh, lack of recognition and reward.

Um, this is another cause and a trigger for burnout.

Um, like our efforts are not seen, not recognized, not being

rewarded by promotion, salary increase, bureaucracy and control.

And that's like, uh, connected with, uh, fear based per performance and

presentism, this push and pressure or on being present all the time, like

let's say clients sometimes refer to, to it as a being watched all the

time or being, having to, um, work.

Not a hundred percent, but 200.

Like even more giving, even more because that sense of being words, being

constantly all the time on the screen and working, and working, working,

and fear-based performance as well, based on fear as a motivator, not,

uh, on passion, creativity, ideas, brainstorming, uh, uh, enjoyment.

Bringing that, um, energy into the project, into the, into the process.

Um, uh, so fear-based performance can be very, difficult to manage and

lack of, um, conflict in personal and professional relationships is also

very common trigger, uh, of burnout.

I guess it can be a combination for, for many people.

Um, in your experience, Anna, how do most people try and overcome burnout?

Leaders, uh, and professionals that are reaching out, they

really want to solve the problem.

They really want to address that.

But what they have tried before, and I can see that that was my, my journey as well.

Um, over the years working in corporate environment, I address trying to

address this problem by counting on the wellbeing initiatives at work,

uh, which actually address only the surface and, and not the, not the

causes, not the roots of the burnout.

Um, so they are not really helping, um, with burnout prevention.

Uh, they can help, help find, gain a little bit more self-awareness, which

is amazing, which is very important, but doesn't cut the, the, that cycle,

that cycle of, uh, of a burnout doesn't help to prevent it really.

taking more time to exercise.

That's the other one.

So, um, as a wellbeing, initiative, trying to balance and deal with the burnout.

They try to put more into exercise into sport activity, which

actually, uh, does the opposite.

Oftentimes increases even stress, uh, helps a little bit of, uh, regulation

helps, um, can, can support this process.

But again, doesn't, doesn't, uh, address the root causes and, and the causes.

It, uh, so only exercising doesn't help really.

This is very common, waiting for holidays on the weekends, uh, to finally

catch up with the rest and recharge.

But oftentimes after weekends on the holidays, uh, when someone is

experiencing, um, the, the burnout, uh, signs, um, and something is triggering

over and over again that a burnout response, oftentimes after few days

of working after holidays or weekend.

Um, this person gets back to similar, um, feeling of exhaustion, tiredness,

mental, physical, emotional signs of the burnout are appearing again, uh, waiting

for project deadline to finally complete.

That's very common, especially for architects.

I must say.

Um, that pressure, um, around, uh, deadline and the workload

around deadline is quite high.

And oftentimes I'm hearing, oh, I, I am so busy right now.

I cannot really, I'm just waiting for a deadline to, to finish, to

close it, and then I will take rest and, and recharge that doesn.

Oftentimes that doesn't happen just because we have a next thing to deal

with, um, issues, some problems to solve.

Um, another, another, um, project.

We, circumstances in the workplace are very dynamic and we cannot count on the

project deadline, uh, in order to rest.

So this is not a solution, ignoring it or pushing through.

That's very often approach to burnout to a problem.

Um, so trying to avoid it, uh, changing a job, uh, not going for the promotion.

So as a solution to the problem, changing the environment.

But again, without addressing signs, causes, and the roots in a

new place, oftentimes what happens, um, burnout is triggered again.

Uh, if there is no strategy for it, uh, for the wellbeing.

And oftentimes it can be also mistake because once burnout is addressed well

for the person, uh, the opportunity for being promoted, uh, is opening up

and for being, uh, being promoted to getting additional benefits or salary.

That's oftentimes the story of my clients as well.

So those are the ways, how, the main ways that they're professional,

the professionals and, uh, trying to deal with the burnout and

I can sign under them as well.

That was what I was trying to do, um, before I got awareness

around how to really address this.

There's a lot of things there, like common things that people will do

that on their own are not really going to solve the core problem.

And, um, fortunately though, fortunately, um, you do have a, a

framework that can help with this.

So could you please tell us about your DCP framework and, and how that can help?

Yes.

And, uh, this is something I developed over years of, as I said, my own

experience, years of studies and qualifying as well, uh, as a coach

and, and getting into the bottom of, understanding what very burnout is and

how to address it on training courses.

And, um, my background is also, um, related to, um, educational psychology.

Very important thing is to see the results, uh, of that

framework, uh, in my clients' lives professionally and personally.

So the first thing we do with my, uh, with my clients is that, that we

first need to address and understand where, uh, the individual, um,

the professional is in that cycle of the burnout and address this.

Without that, there is oftentimes lack of clarity, lack of access to,

to the resources, telling us who, who, that that person really is.

What are the unique traits, personality traits, uh, and the skills that, that are

not used on day-to-day basis to basically perform, to feel well, to address the

goals in personal and professional life.

It is very important to address that.

So it's, there are tools.

Um, they are, uh, really adapted to very busy, uh, professional, uh, lifestyles.

once they're adapted, uh, once the cycle is, uh, is addressed, um, that

person can access the understanding, okay, what is my next best step where?

And oftentimes after addressing, uh, supporting with burnout, recovery

and prevention, using this, uh, those tools on day-to-day basis, my clients

are getting into understanding, okay, this is my next best step.

I want to stay with this company.

I want to move, uh, to different department, or I want promotion.

I want salary increase, or I want to move to different company, or I want

to open the business, um, or I want to transition to different industry.

But, uh, without that, oftentimes, um, it's very difficult to,

to access this understanding.

So first, burnout, recovery and prevention.

If, if the recovery is needed or if the prevention is needed.

It depends where the person is on that cycle of, uh, of a burnout in

their own circumstances in life.

And, and then we have a clear understanding of, uh, career direction.

And with that, and that's magic, which I love watching with my

clients, is, um, once this is addressed, my clients are getting.

Uh, so much energy, clarity, creativity, uh, that innovation,

that spark is there, that passion is back, um, because they, they full

potential who they are is activated.

Finally, Bernard was covering everything before and once it's lifted, um, is,

is wonderful, uh, to, to observe, uh, how clients are tapping into it.

And, uh, we are working on this as well in that first step of discovering who

they really are without burnout and where is their next best direction,

what is their best next di direction without the burnout and without

achieving it, with the burnout tools.

this is the discovery, the first step, uh, of, of this framework.

Could you tell us about the second step in that

yes.

The second step is, uh, is creating a replacement, uh, for the burnout,

which is way wellbeing strategy.

If the burnout is addressed and, um, and the person can, uh, really prevent

it for themselves with those, uh, tools for the future, then they can,

uh, start replacing it with healthy.

Coping mechanism, um, and wellbeing strategy that that is tailored to

them, that responds to their own needs, uh, and their own, um, goals as well.

So we are making sure that the wellbeing strategy match where they are, but

also where they want to be so that they can sustain their wellbeing as

they move, to the next level in their careers, wherever they want to move.

And when we have this strategy, we are simultaneously address strategy and plan

for their, their careers moving forward.

So exactly, we're clearing the path moving forward from overwhelm and

stress by wellbeing strategy about understanding what are the next steps

for them, the best steps to, uh, to take in order to achieve the goal.

They clarified on the, in the fir in the first step, and with that

we are making sure they work life management style suits their needs.

So it's not, uh.

Overgiving over responding to something, and keeps them in the boundary.

The boundaries are very important here, um, because from the

boundaries we can give to others from the boundary holds our energy.

Uh.

And enjoyment and, um, fills our cup.

If we are over giving, uh, we are not responding the boundaries, that's where

the all problem problems, uh, begin.

So, um, making sure that our work life management style, those

boundaries are in place and we are responding and the individual is

responding, uh, from that place and keeping that clear as well, uh, and

structured, uh, for them, uh, for them.

So again, it's a tailored to individual person needs because, uh, every person

is different and has different work life, uh, rhythm, not the balance rhythm.

Uh, so that's what we are making sure in this step is happening, is creating

strategy for career wellbeing moving forward, uh, and for, day to day life.

Work life rhythm.

And the third one, the final one, is focusing on activating potential really.

So if we address in a step number one and step, step number two, if we activate

abilities, skills, personality, uh, that is visible in performance, that would be

activated and work on in the third step to be activated in performance is very

often is missing ingredient in going in, achieving any tangible goal in a career.

Being really yourself and using your own skills, abilities, traits, um,

and staying with your creativity, with your ideas, not trying to.

copy paste from someone else.

But really staying with that, that helps, uh, individuals to tap into that.

Stay passionate, uh, energized, enjoying the journey.

More than hassle and stress.

So it's, no, not anymore that prolongs stress and the hassle around

it, but there is more enjoyment, motivation, energy, and that fuel

for the performance from that place.

And that's again, wonderful, uh, to, um, to observe and have confirmation actually

that, that, yes, this is possible.

We don't have to respond and perform from stress, fear, and burnout.

We can do this from enjoyment, alignment, being ourselves and activating our full

potential skills, uh, in performance, in and, and, uh, and staying, staying

motivated and energized there in this way.

The third step in performance step is activating leadership and confidence

that happens simultaneously and organically in the whole process.

that enables individuals to really thrive, live a joyful and fulfilling life, because

that also spreads into personal life, families, kids, loved ones friends, and,

and again, it's wonderful to observe that.

And tangible result of it is, um, reaching the next level in the career.

Salary promotion is unlocked through that process.

In the end, we are working on that, um, getting clients, as well.

Uh, so that structure of clarity helps to perform on the level, uh,

that attracts the ideal clients, that attracts ideal outcome.

And also that.

attraction as, uh, that's the, the, the one thing.

The other thing is that, uh, that performance allows and unlocks those

opportunities and, and suddenly individual can see those opportunities out there,

uh, and has energy to achieve it.

Uh, so those are the outcomes.

New jobs, better positions going higher in the leadership positions as well.

Um, getting salaries and the promotions.

Uh, so that's the step three that we are working on with my clients.

DCP framework, discover, create, and perform.

Can you share a success story, um, a story that, that you have some success

that you've had with this approach?

I went to, um, tell a story of, uh, one professional who was already on, um,

high level in India, corporate, career and, uh, very experienced, uh, working

more than 10 years in architecture.

And, this professional was, uh, reaching out, uh, with, um, this understanding

that burnout, is, uh, something normal.

And this is a stress that she experiences is normal and it is stress only.

So that was a misunderstanding at first.

She wasn't clear what, what altogether with that, she wasn't clear what, whether

she want to fight a promotion or leave a company or even change the industry.

That's very common, uh, as well for clients.

So even I recall here one.

Success story.

There are many, uh, professionals who are thinking in this moment

when they are burning out about the changing industry or living companies.

she wanted to change something, uh, but She wasn't sure about next career step.

She was pushed back from being promoted a few times.

And she was al already doing a job that was level above.

So even though she was pushed back, she was already on the level above.

Over the, uh, few months we worked together.

Uh, she gained energy back and learned to prevent a burnout for herself

for the future, build wellbeing strategy for next career step and

for her career current situation.

So she started feeling better and she was creating it.

Uh, she, she had a strategy with her wellbeing for a next level.

what this help with was easing the process, basically because, uh, oftentimes

professionals are afraid, if I have so much right now, how the next step, how

the next level, um, can bring a more, uh, wellbeing, it will bring more burnout.

Uh, right.

So that was very important, for her to unlock energy here and now and

have that reassurance and safety that, uh, that the next level.

On the latest level, she have already her strategy in place so she

doesn't have to afraid the next step.

that help her to understand, okay, uh, I want to still fight for the promotion.

so she got clear about that and she also got clear about her ideal project she want

to work on moving forward in her career.

So in her long term vision career plan.

She also decided that she want to, she want to stay in the industry.

What happened, uh, over the course of those few months, she got promoted, as

she received a salary increase and other benefits with her then current employer.

And the wonderful thing happened that actually, uh, she, uh,

the, the opportunity to work on her dream project, uh, came up.

She was ready to take it.

And so she left the company after being promoted and receiving, uh,

receiving all of the benefits.

She left the company and she started working with a new company.

And she's progressing there, uh, really quickly.

Uh, so it's really wonderful to see that she got to higher level

and then, uh, got even better position, uh, with the next company.

And she's progressing there and she's enjoying her life and she's feeling well.

What a great story.

Um, Anna, what would be the main thing that you would like everyone

to take away from this conversation?

I have conversations with many professionals on different levels, uh,

in the corporate career and also in different than architecture, high pressure

environments from different industries.

For me, the, the most important thing, I think to to say is don't wait.

Address burnout.

As soon as possible, because the longer you weigh, the

more problematic it becomes.

The, the longer journey of addressing it, uh, becomes, simply because this

is our nature of, habits, beliefs, emotional load that we are getting from,

uh, burnout, ways of living and working.

If you spot the key signs, act right now, right here, as soon as possible.

You don't have to know the causes right away.

You don't have to know the roots.

I would say that from the experience with, with the client's work, in the

different stage of the burnout for some, uh, it, there are years, uh, they

have been in this loop, or they are just simply, okay, noticing something

is not okay, I need to take action.

They're reaching out, they are coming and, and it is easier is then, then it's three

months, uh, process, not six, not year process of, of addressing the burnout,

uh, and all together with all other goals that individual wants to achieve.

this process doesn't mean.

Stopping and suddenly dropping everything.

What you are having in your life, what you're dealing with is doing

things slowly, but differently with different approach, different

tools that makes the difference.

You don't have to drop everything, like go on a retreat somewhere, uh, suddenly,

um, disconnect to deal with the burnout.

You can do this simultaneously as you, as you work.

It's just a different approach.

Different tools, uh, needs to be adapted.

I think that's, that's it.