Alright. Welcome back to become a calm mama. I am your host. I'm

Darlyn Childress. And today, I I

am excited about this. And I know everyone who's listening is gonna be excited

because I have, Maggie Reyes who is a marriage coach

on the podcast today. Welcome, Maggie. Say hi. Hi, everyone.

Thank you for having me. I am so excited for everyone listening. If you listen

to this podcast, you love Darlene's approach. I have a crush on her.

Respectfully, I'm happily married, but I respectfully have the biggest crush on her. So

I am so excited about everything we're gonna talk about today. Oh my gosh. I'm

so excited. I really thought to myself, why don't I just turn the mic

on and then you just talk for 45 minutes and then that would be enough?

And I because I wanna learn, you know, from you. And I love

our work. Our approaches are similar in that we're race we're basically

relationship coaches. Right? And my where I spend all

my time is coaching parents and their relationship with their kids, and then of course

their relationship with themselves. And that's how you are too. You're coaching,

relationship with your partner and then also relationship with yourself.

Yes. Yeah. So I just love I just

love talking to you and having you here. So we're gonna get into it.

I don't even know. Do you wanna do backstory? You wanna tell us a little

bit about yourself? I don't know. You lead, and I will follow.

So, I'm happy to introduce myself a little bit,

more. So before I was a a coach, I worked in human resources.

So I have lots of thoughts about how we relate to stressful situations, whether it's

at work, in our marriage. So relationships just from every

angle fascinate me. And I became a

life coach, and I specialized in marriage. I love continuing

education. Darlene and I were talking about that earlier. And

so I like to use a mix of evidence based

interventions with intuitive things that have just come to me over the years. And

And some of the things we're gonna talk about today is a mix of of

both of those things. And let's just nerd

out on helping people have better relationships. So that's me. I nerd

out on it too. I just can't I just can't even believe, you know, how

much time I spend reading about the nervous system and relationships

and trauma and how it plays out and, like, communication skills and

just anything self development. Yeah. So you and I are kindred

spirits in that way. You are you are gonna talk to us about how to

have a better marriage. Yes. Yes. I do wanna say some

people on listening may not be married. Yeah. And they might be like, oh,

this isn't for me or maybe they're divorced or maybe they're, you know, have a

boyfriend or girlfriend or something. Yeah. So what would you say to someone

listening? So I would say how to have a better relationship.

Mhmm. Everything every single thing we talk about, especially

the topics we're gonna talk about today, I, because I used to work in HR,

thought about, is this the same for a team at work? Would these principles apply?

And every time I sort of test my hypothesis for any type of relationship, like,

yep, it applies here, it applies there, it applies over here. So,

instead of calling it how to have a better marriage, just call it how to

have a better relationship. And then everyone listening, think about the

relationship in your life that you wish can improve. And what we're gonna talk about

today, have that on your mind as I explain some of the things, and

let's see what happens. Yeah. That's so good. Especially, I think, like,

parents of teenagers or young adults often start and I have a lot of

clients who listen, you know, because they're my friends and they've, like, you know, had,

raised their kids mostly. And they're like, oh, how do I connect

better with my young adults and, like, any of that. Yeah. Or or your own

parents if they're still alive and then or your siblings. So

there's always room here for that. Always room. And I tell me if you

found this. I'm sure you have, where you'll have someone come

and work on the relationship with their child, but then all their relationships

improve. Immediately. Like, in my course, they're always like,

can I use this on my husband? That's cool. Yes is yes, by the

way. The answer is yes because it's a relationship model as yours is relationship model.

Okay. Yeah. So I want you to tell us Yeah. The 4 essential

elements for having a great relationship. Okay. So here's

here they are, and then I'm gonna explain them and how I arrived at them

and all that. So perspective,

partnership, pleasure, and personal

power. Now, what are these things? And why do they matter? So what happens

is when a relationship when you're in a relationship with someone, and it's not feeling

amazing, and you're like, how do I what do I do about it? Where do

I start? Right? When you ask yourself that question, I don't even know where to

begin. Sometimes we're tied up in these emotional pretzels. And we're like, where do we

go? Okay, the place that you start, is you ask

yourself, is this a perspective issue? How I'm looking at it? Could

I look at it differently? Just ask yourself, is there another way that

I could look at this that would help us move forward? Is

it a partnership issue? Do we have collaboration and rapport?

So sometimes we're in relationships with people where we feel

at odds where we're like on opposite teams, right? So maybe it's your

boss at work, maybe it's your cousin, maybe it's, you know, your mother-in-law, whatever

it may be, Like, what if we were on the same team,

the same team could be just I want peace in the holidays whenever I see

them, you know, once a year. Like, that that could be the

the the loosest interpretation of being on the same team could

apply. Right? But if we were on the same team,

how would I approach this? How would I look at it? Then if we bring

the perspective in with the partnership, the more we

want something done, the more rapport we need to build. That's just

life. Yeah. Right? It's like an emotional

bank or something. You know? You need to make a lot of deposits in order

to make withdrawals. Yeah. Yes. Yes. A 100%. I sometimes talk about

it, in terms of capacity. I'll say, like, you know, you

have to have a lot of emotional capacity in this relationship

to, you know, either set follow through on a boundary

or or relational capacity. How much can your relationship take?

How much can you take? Yeah. So Yeah. Exactly. So same same. So

is it a partnership issue? Have I spent no time building

rapport? Mhmm. And therefore, we make no progress in whatever

it is. Right? And it could be with a teenager, it could be with your

boss, it could be with your spouse, like, the same principle applies. So when I

was thinking about, and I'll tell you the other 2, but when I was coming

up with this idea, I had coached, I don't know, 1000 of hours. And I

was like, if I were to distill the issues I coach on

every single day, if I was just to go to the straight core,

when it's just the seed of a situation, What are

the themes that it that always reappear over and over and over and

over again? And I was like, perspective, how I'm looking at it? Partnership is

their rapport, pleasure, are we having fun? And

in the marriage context that I coach on most of the time is, is there

sexual connection? Is there sexual pleasure? Are we enjoying our

connection, physically? But when I tried

to extrapolate it to like a team at work, you know,

a team that isn't having fun at work doesn't

thrive. So you can have relationships, you can have all kinds of relationships, we

all do right? In order to get to thriving,

to something like delight to something like enjoyment,

if you if you don't have these four things, thriving

is what's not possible. The relationship is possible. So the purpose of

these things, like, what gets me closer to thriving

or to enjoyment or to delight, it's gonna be one of these four things.

So we talked about pleasure, so it's not necessarily just sexual pleasure. It's

any kind of pleasure. Mhmm. And I would say that

probably the more fun you have, the more rapport you've built. Yeah. It's one

of the ways into rapport. So that is such a good point,

Dernan, that I wanted to share with everybody, which is so many of

us think about that relationship that you thought of at the beginning of the

episode, is we think we have to resolve the

issue before we can have fun or be nice or be

kind or be generous or do whatever. And we're,

like, this big issue is, like, a wall in between me and the other person.

So think about a teenager. Like, oh, they're not respecting the

rule of cleaning up their room. So we're just gonna be, like, mean.

Right? Like, you have to be harsh. We can't be nice until

they listen or something like that. Like, no. There's no fun. There's no we're

not we're not I'm not taking like, my son and I are doing some trips.

I'm not taking him until he straightens up. Right. That that

attitude, we all have it. We've all done it. What I have found over

the years is the way through, the way we

get him to listen. And in that scenario, the way we get the

thing to happen that we want to happen is through continuing to

relate to the person to build rapport, including things that

are more fun, more lighthearted, and that aren't as heavy as the thing that

we're trying to resolve. Yeah. Seriously. Because we

especially in parenting, you spend so much time, like,

telling your kid what they need to do and what needs to be done, and

there's, like, so much energy spent, like, get your shoes on, sit down, eat your

breakfast, you know, whatever, do your homework, that then wears the

space to just be, like, tell me more about Pokemon?

Yeah. Yes. And it and it's something that or if

we're in a rush and we don't have time, like, that school getting to school

time. Right? We're in a rush and we need to go. How can we

build the time to talk about the Pokemon? How can we build the time

that we and listen, that's hard, Right? That's that's why we both have jobs,

because that's hard, and we have to figure it out and all that. Like, I

don't wanna minimize how hard that would be. No. It's hard. Let's talk about it

in marriage, though, because I was thinking, like, what's the Pokemon of marriage?

Okay. So many.

Because I think about my particular partner and, we

have been in a long marriage. We've been married 26 years. Yeah. And sometimes I'm

bored of his Pokemon or I mean, we'll get into talking about that, but

it's like some of that rapport building can be

I'm not that interested. Just like a lot of my clients are like, I don't

care about Pokemon. And it's like, I don't care about NBA

basketball or whatever. Yeah. That's so interesting.

It's so interesting that you mentioned that, before we started the the

recording, I was telling Darlyn that we're, like, cosmically connected in some

way. And this idea we're just gonna do a little tangent on this

being bored by our partners or bored by the person we wanna connect with.

I was literally talking about this with my husband this week,

Because my husband and I do something called the daily check-in. It's

a concept that I teach. And it's just checking in, how

are you? How was your day? What's going on? What's on your mind? And

the Gottman Institute that I quote very often they research what

helps marriages thrive, and then they create interventions based on their research. And they

also research what tears people apart. And they create interventions based on

both ends of that spectrum. And they call it the

self soothing conversation.

And so there's actual research underneath it. But the idea is that you don't problem

solve, you don't, you're not like troubleshooting anything, you're just sharing

how you're doing. But what happens when you want to share how

you're doing, but the other person is bored? Yeah. They don't wanna hear how you're

doing. Or they don't have the capacity. Maybe they're tired. Maybe they're they're like,

you haven't given me the time of day lately. Like, there's so much underlying

resentment that gets Yeah. Good times. Underlying my time. So what do you do

and actually perspective and partnership and pleasure, these three things you've already talked

about, would be how you what do you do about being bored or

being resentful or whatever? How is there another way I can look at

it? So I can look at my partner and say you're a

human on earth in 2024. And that's fascinating.

And, you know, my husband's an engineer. I'm a life coach. So we're very much

like the yin and the yang. You know, he's very methodical and very creative, like

those kinds of things. Right? We both also have, like, a lot of

right brain, left brain. We sort of can dabble in each

side. But very often, we're very focused on the

ways we do things. And I could find computer engineering,

which is what he does, very boring. Right? And I

look for what is fascinating about this, like, he works at a credit card

processing company, like, I don't know, finance. Was

anybody ever riveted? You know, do they make movies about that

stuff? They don't. Right? Well, they have made some. Like, usually, if it's like

a fraud or scam or something. That. Right? It was some the heightened

drama. Right? I was like, I would be like, who's getting scammed in

your company? No. Right? So, but we

look for well, what is fascinating about that? What is interesting about

that? And that's a practice. That's a habit.

Right? So when I say I'm bored, I say

it as if it's a state of being that cannot be altered and

has no way forward. It's like, no,

I can build a habit to be fascinated by a lot of things.

And I can also have boundaries around it.

So that perspective is how else can I look at it?

That boundary is like where we have the fun and the pleasure is also my

husband I have this as a running thing we do, which is okay, what's

the executive summary on that? What are the bullet

points? You know? Yeah. I could, like, I don't know, watch an Oprah interview and

have, like, 15 things I wanna tell him. Right? And he's like, how about the

top 3? Right? Which makes it more fun for

him and still include some fun for me.

Yes. Yes. Right? Yeah. So being able to say,

like, I'm open to this within this boundary, with this within this limit. Yes.

Yeah. It's very like, those who listen to the podcast, very similar when I say,

like, you know, hey. If the kid is in a big feeling cycle, it's like,

I'm I'm happy to help you within these conditions, like, within this

boundary for the next couple of minutes or as long as you're not hitting me.

Yeah. Yeah. Then what are the parameters around it? Mhmm. Right?

Mhmm. So that it's enjoyable to you. So that you have a a level of

of, oh, I wanna learn about this, but I don't need to know everything that

was ever written about Pokemon. I don't need I'll listen to you for 5 full

minutes. Ready? Go. Yeah. Right. Exactly. Pick your favorite parts. Come back

to me. You know, pick your favorite parts. Take them back to me. So

that's anyway. It's just a little tangent. It's good. I love that you talked about,

like, building a habit of being fascinated. Like, really, it's a

practice and working at how can I,

on my own, take some initiative here and figure out how to

find this interesting? And it's maybe it goes into that 4th

essential element. Yeah. So personal power. So I taught

perspective partnership and pleasure for probably a couple years. And

then I realized as I kept, testing my hypothesis with

my clients and working through different situations that you can't

consistently practice perspective and partnership

and pleasure as things that you turn towards without

being engaged with your own personal power, which means

simply having the thought I matter.

Oh, interesting. So if I matter,

how do I want to handle this conversation? How long do I want to talk

about Pokemon? How do I want to look at this situation?

With generosity and kindness but also the boundaries. Right? With

like some things are not okay. If I don't include that I

matter, I will allow things that are not okay. Mhmm. If I

include that I matter, then I can explore

what is okay and what's not okay. Yeah. I have a question because I think

sometimes we have this thought that I don't

matter to my partner. And I

wonder if that's such a limiting belief.

Like, you don't really even know that whether that's true or not.

Yeah. But I wonder if that gets in the way of I matter.

Yeah. So I don't matter to my partner. Like, I matter to myself, but he

doesn't give a shit about me. Yeah. I mean, first of all, how sad if

if we all go through moments where we have a thought like that,

or the family of that. And I'll say 2 things

about it. One is, my hypothesis is

people love us the best they can. Not always the way we

want to be loved. So very often, not always,

sometimes some people, you know, are married to jerks, and the

partner really doesn't care. And so sometimes that is true. But out of a

100 times, maybe it's 10 times. Right? The other 90, something else is

going on. Yeah. And for the other 90, it's more

like, oh, the way they express what matters to them is so different than the

way I express what matters to me. Yes. And it almost feels that we're

coming from, you know, 2 completely different planets about this situation.

But it doesn't mean I don't matter to them. It's just they express it

so differently. Yeah. And that might be where the perspective

comes in. Right? Like, how can I see this differently? How can I see this

differently? And it comes in in in in so many ways. I'll tell you one

anecdotal thing about this exact thing. I had

a client who her thought was he's just not that into me.

And and she was convinced that this was real. This was what was happening.

They were like, in a very serious problem because he just wasn't interested.

Okay. Maybe let's test it. Let's find out. So her

coaching homework that week was to make a note of

anything that he did that was kind, that was considerate

that you could tell, you know, he thought of her in order to do that

thing. And she was just supposed to keep a little list,

you know, open a Google Doc, just just a little bullet point of, like,

okay, he made me coffee or he, you know, turned the

thermostat down on the way to the bedroom or, like, the tiniest little things. Right?

So she goes back the next week, and I always say God has a sense

of humor because first of all, she had 17 different things of

things he did. Evidence. I always tell them all the time. Yeah. And

then that week that we were counting, he, like, bought her

flowers and and and a card. And I'm, like, God

just has a sense of humor because it's just ridiculous. Right?

So apparently, that's not the problem. Yes. Right. Right. He is into

me or, you know, or I can I can think I can I have evidence

that he might be into me? Right? Yeah. Like, I think of bridge thoughts. Like,

how do I get to the thought that I'm trying to get towards? And it's

like, yeah. I matter, and

then I have evidence that I matter to him or her.

Yeah. Yeah. And sometimes I'm not looking for it, or I'm looking for them

to do it the way I would do it. Mhmm. And that

is when we get into all kinds of, you know, sticky

situations because, the way you would do

it is the way you would do it. I have a funny story about this.

I don't I don't wanna go too tangible, but I when I had

young kids, right, they were 2 boys, 2 years apart,

wild, you know, play toys all day long, and I would work really

hard to make sure that the home was somewhat calm

and peaceful when my husband came home from work. Yeah. Not to the I

felt sometimes I'm like, am I, like, 19 fifties, like, changing my outfit and

putting a ribbon in my hair and the 3 of us standing at the doorway,

you know, waiting for dad. But I just felt like it was

respectful for him. You know? He'd been at work, and I want to so I

would, you know, clean up the house. Mhmm. And I would clean up the

counters and make sure the kitchen was clean and this and that. And then

weeks go by, he still walks in grumpy, and

kind of gruff around about the house. Mhmm. And there was a point when I

was like, hey. I work so hard at cleaning this house for you when you

get home so that it feels peaceful and calm. And he goes, you

do? And I was like, what?

Yes. I I I go and I clean all the countertops, and I

put some stuff away and da da da. And he goes, every time I walk

in here, there's toys all over the floor. And I

said, oh, yeah. That's fine. That's just toys. They're just on the

floor. Like, that's not that's not a big deal. The floor doesn't matter. And he's

like, well, the countertops don't matter. So

good. And I was like, wait. What? He he's

like, I don't care if there's shit on the countertops. All

these toys in the floor is what I see. And I was like,

oh, okay. Well, we could probably put those in bins. You know? I

put the put all the toys away or not or whatever. Like, I don't have

to please him, but it was just so fascinating to me to think I'm

doing so much that he's not appreciating, and he's like, she's

not doing anything. Yes.

I think that's so powerful because when you think about negotiating

a life together Mhmm. One of the things that nobody

teaches us in school is this that you just described, which is

the skill of asking what is meaningful to you. Yes.

What would you like? What would be delightful when you get home? Mhmm.

And so many of us, and and it's this is such a good example because

we twist ourselves into pretzel to do to do this thing that we think

needs to be done because someone somewhere did it on TV

or in a movie or whatever. And, really,

what's meaningful to the other person is this really simple thing that's so easy for

you to do that. It's like, wait. That that takes 5 minutes and this takes

half an hour and you go to 5 minute thing? Yeah. Exactly. I was like,

oh, that's so simple. The boys could do that part. Yeah. Just throw

all the toys in the bin because we're going to bed anyway. And then it

was, like, changed my whole lifestyle because then the toys were all off the floor

for me. And you'll something that happens is we we get so

scared of asking the other person, what would you like? Because we think they're gonna

want something that's so beyond. More or more. I'm already doing everything I

could possibly do. I can't do more. Yeah. And so I just

offered to everyone listening, like, if you just ask the person you wanna

relate more deeply or better with, what would

be meaningful to you? What would you like? Yes. Yeah. I

just like this. I I have, like, a million example because my husband used to

order these flowers for me from, I think, like, ProFlowers or something like that.

Yeah. They came in a box with no vase. Yeah. No.

That's I'm a I'm a hard no on that. I am a hard no too.

And, like, he kept doing he would buy me flowers, and then he would or

go to Trader Joe's and buy flowers. Yeah. And then he just hand them to

me, and I was like, this is work. I do not Yeah. Want to

do any work Yeah. When I receive a gift.

Yeah. And, eventually, I said, I I love what

you're doing, but I don't like the way you're doing it. And he was like,

what great way to say it too. Yeah. And he was like, what do you

mean? And I was like, I then have to cut these flowers and throw the

trash away and then put them in the vase and stuff. And he's like, oh,

what do you want? I was like, just put them in a vase. And I'm

like, okay. Buy the ones that come in a vase. They have them in some

supermarkets too. Yes. Right. Or if you buy them, put them in a

vase, and like Valentine's just passed. And I come down, and there's a

beautiful arrangement in a vase, and I am appreciative

of it. So this I think this is really interesting to talk about, like,

how sometimes we cross. We miss each other. We're trying to do

things, and the other person isn't seeing them. Yes.

And it's like, it's so much easier. It's so much easy to say,

oh, they don't care. They don't care. They're not thinking about me. They don't have

personality. Asking for what you want. So this is another great

example of you had to have the belief that you

mattered to even ask. Yeah. Yeah.

And so just the thought like I matter. So I get to ask

for things that I find pleasing or delightful. Right? And then

when you made the ask you prioritized building

rapport, you prioritize the partnership, I appreciate what you're doing.

I don't like the way you're doing it Mhmm. Is one of the

most beautiful ways to give feedback to someone and say,

hey. Your effort is recognized. I see you.

And this is what would delight me. So good.

So good. Everyone should just write that bit down.

Yeah. Right there. Let's talk about we've kinda talked about it a little

bit. So let's go back. Okay? So it's perspective. Yes. Is there another way to

look at this? Yep. Partnership. Partnership. Are we on the same team?

Mhmm. Pleasure. Are we having fun? Mhmm.

Personal power. Am I thinking I matter? Yeah. Yeah.

Okay. Mhmm. Now what we've kinda talked about, like, when we're

when we're feeling that disconnection or, like, especially, you know, when you're

raising kids, you there's so much going on. You got like,

every every weekend is filled with a birthday party and a soccer game

and, you know, housework and, it's just you then you gotta

go to your in laws. It is a thing. Right? Mhmm.

And it's easy to feel drifted apart.

Mhmm. And and that disconnection.

So it's like kinda like what do you see is the main

culprit of why we get disconnected and then sort of what are some

ways to get back. Okay.

So And please don't say date night or everyone will stop listening. I'm just kidding.

Okay. That wasn't even in my awareness, but good to know thank you for the

because I think that's what we hear a lot. You need to prioritize date night.

And people are like, what are you talk where who's gonna watch my kids? Like,

it just feels like another date. So let's talk about yeah. So let's

just take another attention on that. So I don't call it

date night. Uh-huh. I like to think about it

for the same reason Mhmm. As together time.

I love that. And together time can be in the

morning having 5 minutes of coffee. Together time can

be right after you put the kids to bed and you have like 20

minutes to just breathe. Like, together. It's it's

more what works for you. Some people love going out

on dates. I love my house. I don't even need to leave my house. You

know what I'm saying? We have a hot date planned tonight. And our

hot date is I'm obsessed with Formula 1, and we're

gonna watch Drive to Survive on Netflix. Uh-huh. And I

couldn't be more excited. Right? Like love it. And then we plan, what are we

gonna eat? What are we gonna it's gonna be pizza night. Like, we have a

whole plan for this thing, but it's what works for you. So anybody whenever

you hear date someone say date night, you just say together time that works for

me. Just replace that whole sentence. Together time that works for us.

That's, that is important. I will tell you that,

when I talk to people who are struggling in their marriages, because I'm a marriage

coach, I talk to a lot of people who are struggling. You

think? When I ask them how much time do you spend together

Mhmm. The people who are struggling the most spend the least time.

Yeah. And people who are thriving spend the most time. It's definite it's

there's definitely a correlation. There's definitely,

prioritizing how you think about the together time how you plan, like all of these

different pieces. It just shows you where your work is. It

just shows you what what do I need to figure out here, right? Yeah. When

there's a deficit of time together, sometimes we were you were asking me

what creates the drift. So that's just I want to name

it. So that feeling of disconnection, we feel like roommates instead of

soulmates, anything like that. What

this is something that specific term was coined by the Gottman

Institute, who I love quoting because it's just so clear and

succinct. So the drift is if you imagine yourself in the ocean,

and you and your partner, let's say, in this case, in a in a marriage

or or deep relationship, the natural inclination

of the ocean is for you to drift apart. But

this is true in any relationship with your kids, with

your cousin, with your parents, any relationship. You

your natural if the natural flow of life

is just for you to drift apart unless you turn

towards each other on purpose. Mhmm. Even

at work. Right? Even if like you have different projects and different

things, you have to choose to do those projects on purpose that day.

And if we don't choose to turn towards each other, we just continue

to drift further and further and further and further apart. Now

you gave that example of every weekend is filled.

Yeah. Now here's where I would take that perspective

and say is there another way I can look at this? Why is every weekend

filled? How do I wanna decide how to fill my weekend?

Right? If if my, let's say my family matters,

like my relationship with my kids, and my marriage matters, my

relationship with my partner, how do I want those weekends to

look? What will I say yes to and not what I say no to?

Yeah. I'd love to speak to that for a second because Yeah. We

actively chose not to do, travel sports Mhmm.

Like club anything Mhmm. Because my

husband worked, like, 60 hours a week, and he had a

commute. And he was just not I was we called Hollywood widows.

That's what the term is for people who are married to people in the film

industry. Mhmm. And he would leave

and I would not see him till like, I

wouldn't see him. I'll go to bed and he was not home, like, most of

the years that we I was raising young kids. But then he was he didn't

work on the weekends. Mhmm. And so we were so

precious about our weekends and we needed he needed to be at home

because he wasn't at home. Yeah. And he didn't wanna be driving, you know, an

hour and a half and sitting on a field and this kinda thing and having

our life be that way. So we were really, like,

protective of that. Yes. I'm grateful for those

decisions. Now did it maybe impact my kids because they didn't

get better at sports? Yeah. Right? Or whatever. We weren't maybe

as qualified to play on the high school team and that kinda thing.

Sure. Possibly. But they had a relationship with their dad

Yeah. Who was happy and their their parents' marriage was working.

Yes. So that was just more important to us.

Yeah. But that's because of our time constraints. Yeah. Well,

for you, it's sort of like you had this organic reason to have to decide.

Yes. And most of us don't have an organic reason to have to decide, so

we just react on a day to day basis of, like, whatever falls in front

of us. We just Right. Everyone else is doing it. We should just do this

or Right. Exactly. Mhmm. Uh-huh. So so the people who are listening to this podcast,

like, yay you for listening to the podcast Yeah. And and

being intentional about how you wanna raise your kids and how you wanna show up

in your relationships and like, and part of that being intentional is

there will always be in management, if you have an MBA or

something like that, there will always be an opportunity cost.

It's the price I pay for the thing I don't do. Right. So

I invest over here, I'm giving up something over there. There's a there's a

cost on your case. It's such a beautiful illustration. It's like, the cost is,

okay, the kids' journey in sports is gonna be

different because they made you as parents made this choice. But their

journey in life is gonna be different because you as parents made this choice. So

it's like, am I willing to pay the price of that opportunity

cost? For me, I'm very social. I do podcast

interviews, I coach people, I talk and listen in deep

ways of a lot of hyper focus all the time. And sometimes on the weekend,

I don't want to talk to anybody. Yeah, I agree. And

so sometimes my my wonderful, amazing extended family is

always doing things. And my opportunity costs I miss out

sometimes on time with them to rest and

just be with a book or just be quiet or just, you

know, watch movie. And it's like, am I willing to pay that cost?

Sometimes I am, sometimes I'm not. I I we I remember

now I'm I coined this phrase, like, work recovery. So we had, like,

these 5 priorities was work, work recovery,

our marriage, our kids, and our house. Mhmm.

And that those five things sometimes I always think of it as

a Ferris wheel, like, whatever's at the top, but the things are still important. And

sometimes the Ferris wheel's moving, moving, moving, and it's all great, and everything's getting managed.

And other times, something's at the top, and that's what you're focused on. Yeah. It's

not like you're gonna forget about all the rest. Yes. And there was a

lot of weekends that was like work and work recovery. I love

that so much. Mhmm. We would just spend time being in recovery,

and that's not, you know, maybe working on our parenting

or marriage or, like, we're just, like, letting the kids do whatever or, like, we're

just all doing our own thing because we're recovering

from a Yes. Heavy work week. And then other times, it's like, no. This

is a house weekend. This is a project weekend. This is we're we're gonna focus

on our marriage. We're gonna be really invested in our kids. Whatever. Yeah.

I love work recovery. It's so clear.

Yeah. And I love thinking about

you know, I talk about, like, nerding out on some of these things. Right? Like,

I'm learning out on this right now. So I talk a lot about how in

nature, things happen in a cyclical manner.

But our Western industrialized society where productivity is revered, like a deity, we

deity, we pretend like humans don't

need work recovery. Yeah, you pretend, and

then burn out. And then we have all these other health issues and all these

other relationship issues, because we're just pretending that

we are widgets in a factory as opposed to, like,

organic organisms that work the way the rest of the planet

works. Right? There's night and day. There's ebb

and flow of the ocean. But there's winter. Sometimes there's whole

seasons. There's whole seasons. That's why it

always makes me laugh. Like, why am I making goals in January? All I wanna

do is hide in a bush and, like, be in my couch and be

quiet. And then, you know, middle of February, people start to

emerge out a little bit. Yeah. Like, oh, yeah. Because we should probably be

making goals and have a new year at spring. Yes. When everything

is blooming, when everything is falling. Like, the idea

that we were we would pause and ask ourselves, how

do I want it to go? Again, is a perspective is like, how

do I want to think about this thing? And then I matter, so

I get to choose how I relate to my life. I know. It's so

good. I matter. Yeah. And that means

saying no. And you said, yeah, opportunity is a cost and, like, yeah,

we have I always think we really do need to have our priority. Like, what

are we work what's important to us in this season

or big picture? I would always say, like, early

those years, I'd say, I want I wanna be married to Kevin in the back

end. I would call I would say that, like,

whatever was going on and struggle and we were you know, had so

many struggles those years. And it's like, I need to do

whatever I can to set myself up for the back end, which I'm

about to go into empty nest. I have a senior in high school last kid.

And it's this man and I that will be married 27 years, and

it's like, okay, we're at our back end. Here we are. We made it. What's

it gonna look like? I have no idea, so I have a lot of work

to do. But I I think that was my one of my priorities is, like,

how can I make sure that this marriage is Yeah?

Exists? Right. In a way that works for you.

Yeah. Yeah. Sometimes it was just let's keep it existing. Yeah.

Yeah. And then we'll figure it out. Yeah. Oh, yeah. But that

okay. I wanna talk about that, like, that

you're you have this concept and and I love it and I've learned a lot

about this is like your spouse doesn't have to change in order for you to

be happy. Yes. I really

had to own that for myself

Mhmm. In order to then have the marriage I wanted.

Yes. And so I would love for you to talk about that. Yeah.

So here's the thing. Sometimes our spouses do change. Sometimes we do

shift things in ourselves just like when you teach your parents how to deal with

their kids. Their kids' behavior actually does change. 100%.

And I actually do see this with this this concept with my husband. Yes.

Yeah. So what we what we stopped doing is we stopped hanging our

happiness on it. Yeah. Stop hanging and and like literally,

like, well, figuratively, not literally, figuratively, like, making

it conditional that I cannot have peace or joy or anything good,

unless this changes. We we become detached

to in our relationship to, like, how do I wanna handle this?

And inside that detachment, we create space where very often

the byproduct is the person responds in different weights. Oh my I

see it so much in the parenting work. Like Yes. We stop

focusing on their behavior and what they're doing wrong and how much the kid is,

like, a problem, and we shift to Yes. This is

different than in marriage, but shift to, like, what delightless is one of the things

I teach. Like, what are the things that I like about this kid? Yes. And

then the perspective stuff. Where is it going well? And, like, bringing pleasure into the

relationship. And then the the the

the, like, little tiny feeling between the two

people, the energy shifts. Yes. Okay. Gross.

That's it. So the idea is you don't have to wait

for the person to be different before you take action

towards what you want. That's another, like, layer of

nuance within that. It's like, if I'm waiting for my spouse to change, I'm just

gonna sit and wait for a very long time. Right? Versus,

okay, if I release, whether they change or not, as part of the

essential part of the equation, what do I want different? How would I plan my

weekend? What what do I want to prioritize, I start doing the things that

engage me in the world. And then they simply respond

to what you're presenting in front of them. So instead of

me, I don't know, nitpicking something and getting all annoyed about

it. I'm like, I would be so delighted if we

stayed home this weekend. And here's what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna do this and

this and this. Would you like to join me for any part of that? Yeah.

And make that invitation. I think sometimes it's easy to stop inviting

Yeah. And and stop trying. Yeah.

Or like I invited my husband to this, thing I got tickets to,

like, at LA Food and Wine Festival type of thing. Yeah. Yeah.

And I was like, do you wanna come? And he's like,

no. It's crowded. I don't really care about food.

I don't drink. Like, you know, nada. And I, like,

really want to make him wrong. Yeah.

Like, what's wrong with you? What Yeah. What are you doing? You're so you're so

boring. You're so lazy. You're so like, I really want to make him, like,

wrong. And then bring in the perspective in of, like, I can

go. I can find someone who would love it. Yeah. And that doesn't mean anything

about our relationship. Doesn't mean anything about him. Yeah. And then if I

also want him to go, he will. Yeah. If I presented in

a way that's like, it would make it fun for me if you came.

Or is there any part of this that's interesting to you? Like, what if we

just went for lunch? Yeah. Right. Right. We just got our bellies full.

Yeah. Right? Like, how do we make it a win win for both of us?

And my husband and I have gone to the lengths, so so to speak. We

can sometimes go in separate cars to things. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. It's

like, what part of this do I wanna engage in? And what part of this

I don't wanna engage in? It's it's removing also all or nothing thinking

Yeah. From our marriage or our partner or how we approach

things. Yes. Right? And sometimes

it is saying, I would really love to have this

experience, and I'd love to have it with you. Mhmm.

Would you be willing to spend an afternoon? Here's how I'm thinking we would

approach it. Here's what I'm thinking we would do. Yeah. And

just sometimes we can be uncomfortable or do

things that aren't my our favorite thing, and service and love to the

person that we care about. That's okay. But how we approach

it, giving them the space to say, like, oh, I wanna be there all day.

Well, could we just do the afternoon? Like, giving them the space to have, like,

what is the essence of the thing that you want?

And then finding how that's possible with the other person. Yeah.

Yeah. And, like, I can be happy if he says

no. Yeah. I can still do my thing.

Yes. Yeah. But and I can keep

inviting. I just think we get, like I'm gonna do my own

thing. I see this, like, when parents have kids, like, in middle school, if

their kids get a little bit older where they can stay home alone or they're

not as needy, the children Mhmm. And the drifting has

happened. Yeah. And then it's like, I go do this with my friends and I

go, I'm out here and I'm on this trip with the girls and this and

that. And there's not really the invitation Yes.

Of coming together and saying, like, I care about this relationship.

I want to, you know, be in it. Yeah. And I'm

I'm happy. I'm okay. And I want

more from From that relationship. Yeah. And whether it's with your

kids or with your partner, it's okay. There's a space for me to

do the things that I'm interested in. And what's the space where

we as a family or or you and I in our relationship, what is

that what are the things that we could do together that could be fun for

both of us where we can connect? And then how do I prioritize

those things within also exploring the things that matter to

me? Yeah. Yeah. It's like a dance. It's a little bit of It is. It

is. And it's a lot of talking like it out a little bit. Yeah. And

creating space like your daily check-in sounds like a nice

pattern or habit that you have. And that might be the room of,

like, let's just talk through this weekend Yes. Or I got an invitation

to this thing. I wanna talk to you about it. Whatever. Yeah.

Even having a simple conversation as a family

on what do you value. Like, what's important to you?

So I am sure everyone

listening can see that there are things we

value more than other things. Yeah. But sometimes we

don't articulate that. You know, you all are listening to

this podcast, and you're like, oh, yeah, that's so important. Okay. So So, like, do

I value freedom? Do I value routine? Do I value spontaneity? Do I value

planning? Do I value time together, having adventures, or do I

value meeting lots of different new people and giving my

kids lots of different types of experiences? What do I

value? Right? And and within that,

then how what are the places where we can honor the things

each person in the family values? Yeah. I think

I noticed it as I parented longer or had a family longer.

And I, like, looked back and I was like, oh, apparently, we really value going

to national parks. Right. But I was like, okay.

Nature, time outside. This is like a huge value that I don't know if it

was articulated, but you could see it in our life. Like Yes. What you

sometimes maybe you don't know what you value, but you can

look at the decisions you've made Yes. And see, oh,

we spend a lot of time doing this type of thing. Yeah.

Is this I must care about this, or do I care about this?

I've spent so much time doing this. Why? Wait. Do you even like it?

Or was it me? Right? Or whatever. Yeah. Yeah.

The way you can tell what you value really quickly for everyone listening

Please tell us. Is look at your calendar and look at your bank account.

Immediately. So my husband and I, you know, we live in Miami,

we can be at South Beach every weekend. We don't value that. There's

nothing you know, you look at our credit card statement, there's nothing about that.

We go on family breakfast at a hole in the wall place that is

like authentic Nicaraguan food and because, you know, you

can immediately see if you look at your bank account. These are the things I

value. Yeah, I have a very humble car. I

drive a Hyundai. I love it. It's amazing. But I spend a lot of

money on coaching. I'm a coach. And if you look at my bank account, you'd

be like, oh, this woman values coaching. Uh-huh.

You can immediately tell and then your calendar are do you go on

trips? Do you go out every weekend?

Do you spend money on art? Do you have beautiful art in your office?

Like, you can immediately tell and then you can help that

allow that to be clues. It's like, oh, what if I valued it on purpose?

Yeah. Mhmm. Or is this

actually important to me? In this chapter. Yeah. Yeah.

Like, I just think about my own budget because I've been doing, like, really severe

budgeting those past couple years. Like, you know, write down everything,

whatever. Mhmm. Well, Well, I don't write it down. The credit card tells me what

I spent. Yeah. And I just think like, oh, I'm thinking

as you ask that, like, oh, is that really what I wanna value? Like

Yeah. But that's a great question. Yeah. Like, is oh, wow. I spent a lot

of money on that. Do I even care about it? Do I want to do

that? Yeah. Does it still matter to me the way it mattered before?

Yeah. Or is it just a habit? Is it a is it just a

habit? Mhmm. Yeah. Oh, that's so good. Well, that that's just some

life coaching right there. There you go.

Okay. Anything that you wanted to tell us that that we haven't talked

about? And I wanna spend a few minutes talking about your program because I

do wanna give everyone listening a chance to know how to work with you. But

like really, I think in a podcast, we sometimes leave that to the end.

They're like, okay. So go to my website. I would love for you to tell

us what you do in your 6 month program and, like, lay it

out a little bit and give us some room to breathe into it because it's

beautiful. Aw. Thank you so much. Let's talk about that. Absolutely. I would

love for you to ask me anything you're curious about. About the program.

Because for me, I don't know anything about human

design. I know nothing. But I have been told that I am,

I thrive when I'm in response. So when you ask me a question, I'm just

like, yes, let's dive in. As opposed to like, oh, my gosh, I

could tell you 54 things. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Now I wanna just talk

about human design. That's another

episode. That's another episode. It is another episode. It's funny because a couple weeks ago

on the a podcast, I was, like, talking about internal family systems, and I was

like, but we can't talk about that today. And I was like, it's another episode.

Yeah. Okay. I wanna know. Mhmm. It's a 6

month container. Yes. It's a group program. Yes.

And I think, like, someone comes in

and they're most of the time struggling, right, in their marriage. Maybe they

feel, hopeless or

they feel discouraged, or they feel like they're in pain.

And I wonder what that is like to go into a

group when you're feeling that vulnerable. I'd love for you to talk about

that. Yeah. I would say the people who end up working with me are

hopeful because that's why they join the program. Oh, because they buy it.

They're like, oh, we're gonna be okay. Or, like, there's a whole bunch of figure

this out. We're gonna do something about it. So it is a slightly

different it is vulnerable, a 100%. And it is a

tender time in your relationship when you're kind of thinking about what do I want

my marriage to look like. I tend to have 2

different types of people who come and

work with me in the program. And it's

someone who's like at a turning point, it really needs to decide sometimes it's empty

nest, what do I want my marriage to be about now, it's really sort of

a reset in the relationship in some way. Sometimes it

is taking things from good to great, where it's like, a lot of things are

working really well, but there's some things that aren't, and we need to calibrate

those. And then sometimes it's, I really

need help. I don't know how to talk to this person, or I don't

know. Like, it's really how how do we relate to each other. So,

it is a little bit of a variety in a group program.

Some people really thrive in a group environment, hearing celebrations,

hearing struggles, feeling less alone. And some people

really, and I just really wanna say this as a coach, really need to do

like 1 on 1 work. If you don't thrive in a group program, you shouldn't

do a group program. Like, there's no good, bad, better or

worse thing is like, what are the

conditions in which you thrive? And I think that's an important thing to

just think about. And, and

when people apply, that's why I have an application process for them, because I

really want to check-in on what do they wanna get out of it, all

those kinds of sort of logistical things. So when someone comes in, we talk about

the stress cycle. Mhmm. Let me just say if anybody is in your program,

they will love my program because we are cut from the same

cloth and some of the things that we that we teach and that we do.

So they come in and they get a whole orientation, sequence.

They they get an email, they get a video workshop, which

part of it is just the logistics of how to get the most out of

the program. And part of that orientation is how does your

stress cycle work? How do you decide what to focus on when

you're in the program? What are your top three values in your

relationship? And how can we help you turn towards them

over and over and over again, and what gets in the way of you turning

towards them. So I have some actual teaching

training pieces. And then they can come to our coaching

because we have live coaching calls as well. They can ask questions about

what they're learning, they can get coached in their specific

situation. And I mix a lot of teaching with

coaching. So even when I'm coaching and teach little pieces of

things. Yeah. That's how I do it too. Because it's not always,

sometimes you need some basic information or a skill. There's there's

a skill gap, and so we have to, like, kind of well, here's a skill

or here's a little bit of concept. And now knowing this, how would you

respond? Yes. That's exactly if I was gonna distill it down, it's

like, now knowing this, what comes up for you? How Yeah. Where could you get

stuck? What could get in the ways? That kind of thing.

What else? Yeah. That's my suggestion. So is it

ongoing enrollment, or is how does it work? So we're talking in

2024. Who knows? Yeah. If you're listening to this in the future,

just go to my website, and we'll see. That's how I feel about my programs.

I'm like, it's you know, we're always in, you

know, Yeah. Perpetual response to whatever is happening. You know? It's like

Yeah. This is the truth today. So today Yeah. It is

a continuous enrollment program, which means if you're listening to this and you're

inspired and you wanna apply, you can go to my website. All the details

are there. And so you have, just

like you would join, I don't know, something that expires. I was gonna join a

gym, but a gym doesn't necessarily have an expiration date. But you start on your

1st day. And then in 6 months, you have an end date.

And you can continue on if you want to like renew again, or

whatever, you do again, or whatever. But it's 6 months. And the reason

that it's 6 months is I really think you need to have time to sort

of fall down and get back up again and fall down and get back up

again. And play with some of the tools and the teachings and the things

that that I talk about, and breathe with it. Because I could teach

everything in like a week, right? Yeah. Yeah. But you have to go into it's

kind of you with with kids, you have to go into your marriage. Yeah. Do

some of these things, have some of these hard conversations, and then come back and

say, okay, here's where I landed now. Here's what's going on now. And for that,

I think you need space to to breathe. Yeah. And have support in that

process. Exactly. Yeah. Okay. So if they wanna join or

learn more about the program, they go to maggiereyas.com? Dotcom

forward slash group. Group. And then what is it called? Like, I

we've been saying MBA, but what is it? Yeah. It's called v marriage

MBA. It's the name. And it actually stands

for the marriage

mindset breakthrough activator. I love it. My

intention behind it is that you will always be able to create your own

breakthroughs. Once you learn the things that I'm teaching you in the program

and practice

for yourself. I was just watching an interview

with the founder of Hinge. It's a dating app. And one of their principles

is designed to be deleted. Yeah. That's what this

principle is. Like, like, I wanna coach you. I wanna help you for as long

as you need help and support and all those things. But more than that, I

want you to be able to internalize the things we're talking about. Yeah.

So that you can, you know, 10 years from now, just fall back on that

skill and know exactly how to handle any situation that comes up in

your relationship with confidence and with grace. I love that. Sometimes I'll

think to myself like, oh, I don't see that client that much

anymore or something like that. And then I'm like, oh, that's because they got what

they came for. Yeah. Like, they learned the things they wanted to learn and

they're now implementing them, and that's beautiful and that's the whole purpose.

Like, we're not trying to create people who need constantly

need us. Like, it's like, let me give you some skills and a foundation

and then you go create the marriage you want. You go create the parenting

relationships you want. It's like Yeah. That's what we're here for. Yeah.

Oh, well, thank you so much for being here. We'll put all the,

details to find Maggie in the show notes. And, yeah,

I'm just so grateful. Thank you for having me. I got

to I got to have fun with my crush today. That's how

I feel too. All week, I was like, I get to talk to Maggie this

week. I was really thrilled. So thanks so much for being here.

Thanks, everybody. Everyone. Hope you have a great week.