Welcome back to Become a Calm Mama. I'm Darlin Childress. I'm the host of this

podcast and sometimes I have an episode that

I call Confessions and it's where I talk about something that

I'm learning about myself or something I'm working through. And

a lot of times I'll talk about this with a friend of mine. And on

this episode I invited my friend Kristin

LaFontaine to talk to me about this concept

that I call fix it and fuck it. It's this cycle that I've been in

in my life where I get anxious about something

and then I go into like a hyper fix it mode. Then I get discouraged

and then I give up and I go into like these fuck it's and I

talk about kind of what this is all about. This is a really great

introduction to therapeutic model called internal

family systems that I have been studying. Starting in a

few weeks, I'm going to do a three part series on some of

the concepts that I'm talking about in this episode about internal

family system. So this will pique your interest. I'm going to dive into it more.

But if you're interested and curious, you can check out

Richard Swartz book, no Bad Parts or just look

up Internal family systems and you can start to explore this concept

on your own. Yeah, I really think this is a very interesting conversation

that I have with Kristen. All about my personal growth when it comes

to ultimately becoming a person who feels safe inside

and can trust themselves. So let's get into it.

Hello? Hello. Hi. You

can hear me. Okay. I don't have any of my mics head set up yet.

Okay. Set that up, girl. Okay, there's this one right

here. Testing, 1, 2, 3.

Is that better? Oh, it's better if I turn it up a lot.

Yeah, that's clean. Okay. So is this one okay

as long as I speak into the mic?

Yes. Okay. Hi. Perfect. Hey,

how are you? Full blown summer

pepper. She ran into the neighbor's yard and they have two mean dogs. And so

she has a like wounds on her from like a couple, a couple

nights ago. And I'm just not an alarmist. My kids are like, we need to

get to your vet. And I was like, she's fine. Like I looked, there's like

little superficial ones. Oh, she's like this huge gash. Like she needs

stitches. She's so. I feel like the worst dog mom.

So she's finally going in at 3:30 day. But I just, I'm seeing her like

lick this huge open Wound and she's like, panting. And I just

feel, you know, that you're like, I didn't know. Like, of course

it's an emergency, but I didn't know. I don't know if it opened up or

if I. I don't know how I missed it. So I don't know. But that's.

I love that saying. Like, I'm not an alarmist because I'm not either.

And then. Yeah. Sometimes I think some people go hyper

aroused. I almost go hypo aroused. Like, yeah,

nothing's wrong. And it kind of maybe goes along with what I want to talk

about with the fix it and fuck it. Because it's not quite the same. But

it is sort of a. It might be a coping strategy. Right.

If there's a lot of chaos in your life or it feels

like you've taught yourself to not

overreact to the things because there's too much to react to.

And then you don't know what is an emergency or what's not.

Right. And then every now and then, you know, my kids will be sick

and you're like, I'm never like, oh, it's meningitis, you know, like,

that's. I'm just like, we're all good, we're fine.

You know? But then every now and then it will be like, you know this

thing that happened to Pepper and you're like, oh, my gosh. Like, I could have

been a little bit more. Yeah. Like regulated. Instead

of just, we're good, it's fine. I look better. No

problem. Don't worry about it. It's like,

there's that chill thing we all want.

Yeah. Like, I think people are like, oh, I won't. Give me some of

that. Give me some of that, like detached or indifference.

But we should be onto ourselves. Like, is this because I don't have

bandwidth? Is this because I. I'm like ignoring

something that is real? Like, is this a stress

response that looks like no stress?

Yeah. That's such a good way to put it. And I think I should be

onto myself a little bit. Like, oh, yeah, you go to.

Everything's fine until it's like full blown

emergency. Yeah. And then I'm still very calm, which it can be.

That's great. But obviously

the decisions that go on before that might be different if

I didn't just completely Zen out.

Yeah. It's almost maybe like a defense or shutdown or.

Yeah. I actually don't like asking for help either. I don't like

having. I don't like, having be the. I don't like to be the problem.

Yeah. So I don't want my kids to be the problem or me

to be the. Like, there's no problems here. Even if

there is. I don't want to. Like, I have, like, an

ego around it. I don't want to admit that I might need help or

that I don't have it all together. Even though, like, my dog's bleeding out. I'm

like, no, no, we have it. Yeah. Right where I was like, well, she has

to get her shots anyways, so I'll just request it over the little app

versus, like, I should have called them yesterday, you know, and been like, can I.

Should I take her in? But I was just like, I'll wait till they respond

on the app. And, you know. Yeah. It's like, I don't want to, like,

be a problem. Yeah. Or make more work for yourself. That's

unnecessary. Especially if you're in burnout. Yeah. You have five kids,

so probably that's been a very good strategy for

the last 10 years to not go

to, like, Ah. You really do need to steady the ship

all the time with. As a mom in general, we have to, like,

it's okay. We're okay. That's at least what

our kids want us to do. Not every. I know, right? Yeah. They look to

us for that. Like, are we okay? But then your kids are like, are you

gaslighting me? Because I'm pretty sure there's a problem here. Especially as

they get a little older. They're on to you. Yeah. I find

that they're, like, kind of trying to create some alarm. They're like,

did you know. Did you see this? Have you seen this? Do you see her

licking? Do you see her panting? Do you see her thing? You know, like, I

think she'll be fine. Yeah. Before I saw the huge

open wound, so. Yeah. Well, I wanted to talk about.

It's funny because I'm doing this training on internal family

systems, and that's like a modality is

therapists and coaches can use to help you unravel your

patterns, like, where they're coming from. Because the concept

is that we are always protecting ourselves from

pain and that when we're little or at

some point in our lives, it could be in adulthood, too, that you get this

wound and then you have this system

inside of you that wants to protect the part

of you that got hurt and make sure it never gets hurt again.

And that part that got wounded is called an exile.

And it gets kind of Pushed away and drowned out. And then

we have these protectors and there's a. There's

a manager and a firefighter. There's two kind of types of

protectors. And I'm always thinking now when

anybody talks or I talk about myself, I'm like, which

part is this? You know, like either the

manager or. The firefighter or parts or is. Yeah, well,

it's like the strategies of maybe not

paying attention or not taking alarm. Like, I'm not an alarmist. It's

like, oh, well, maybe that has something to do with

your wounded area or something. Something you're protecting. It doesn't have to

be a wound, it's just something you're protecting. And then you have either that's

your manager part who's like, this is how it works and this is how we

do it and this is what we're going to do. And they have the plan

and the order. Or it could be your firefighter part who's like, oh

shit, there's a problem here. Let's shut that down.

Yeah. Is it usually. It's always one or the other, right. Or is it sometimes

a mix? They work together

sometimes for sure. The protective system.

And what I want to

talk about is the fix its and fuck its, right? This concept that I have,

and then I want to frame it in internal family systems. Because it's

really been interesting to me to find that I've had

parts I've named in the past, but without realizing what,

like, we all do it. We all have, like

ability to reflect on parts of ourselves and

go, oh, this is the part of me that's really critical. Or

this is the part of me that's reactive, or this is the part of me

that shuts down. I think we all know

that we have these strategies, but

framing it in this protective system, it gives us a little more access to

like, love those parts instead of being critical of

them. No, I've always loved your

concept about fix it it. Yeah.

So I want to share a little bit. And I was like looking in my

notes to see when did I write about this, the first time

or when did I start to think about it. And it must have been like

2018, maybe even earlier. But

when I named the pattern. But I've kind of always had it. And

so I think for me what happens is that there's something in the environment

or circumstance, or having an extra kid or

someone passing away, or my husband loses his job, or

the my friend group feels insecure.

It could be relational, it could be circumstantial. Something in my

world happens and then I get

afraid. Yeah. And

what those fears are, variety of fears. Fear

of not belonging, fear of

not having enough, fear of getting

hurt. So I have these fears

and then what I do, my manager

is if is the fix it's so what it looks

like is I just get hyper focused on

creating order. And so I wrote

like it's like when something feels chaotic, either

inside or outside, I want to get back into control, I want to

feel safe. So I think control, we overuse it a lot. But I think

it's like I'm obviously feeling unsafe or I believe

I will be unsafe. Like it's protectives are looking forward

to figure out how to prevent pain. Right?

Yeah. And so I have this strategy that it's like

then I over plan and I think of it as like

over organized, over productive, over plan.

I over create. Sometimes I over criticize.

That's also part of it just being really, really critical, especially of

my body. That's one of my favorite things fix it is to

go to my body and say, you know, everything

is wrong with my body and I better fucking fix it. Right. I get like

really obsessed with

not letting my body get out of control, which to me

means weight gain. So it's like then I go into the

fix its in my body, but I can also go in the fix its

like when my kids were in elementary school I went into like

a kind of a stress response with their school and I wanted to like fix

the elementary school system and it felt chaotic

and I don't know if it was or not, but it felt like it to

me. So I need to get in there and organize. And when

Trump first became elected, it felt very scary to me. So then I

like created advocacy network for

women to get plugged into service. Like big

scale sometimes or small scale

in my own life where I like really get organized with my time, get

really organized with my diet and

the fix its for me look

kind of good. Yeah. I was gonna say on the surface you're

like all of that is those are, those can be good things, you

know. But it's like what's motivating that, you know, driving

that. Yeah. And it's hard to turn to

someone and be like, wow, I'm going to clean

up my diet. And them say you must be in an

active stress response. Right, Right. It

doesn't look like that. Like it doesn't appear

that way or I haven't

really done it in this business very much like in my

parenting work. It's been the most pure place

for me. It's like a playground. It feels very pure.

But I think there's been times on the back end where I've been

critical like, okay, I'm going to make a launch plan and I'm going

to do this seven steps and like I get kind of into that and I,

I gravitate towards step program and I created a step program

like you know, I want order. Yeah.

And do you have questions? Probably helpful to have a reference

point of a place where you're not totally in that like

cycle of fix it bucket and then you can kind of refer back to like

oh, I actually feel a little bit more flowy or I don't know what, how

you describe it or intuitive in this place versus like

motivated by your protect. Is that what you call it? The protectors?

Yeah. Yeah. Um, well it's

interesting question because I don't know if I

really spent any time for so long in the middle.

And it's finding the middle between the swing

that has been the work because so the fix its like I said,

they look really good and then a couple things happen.

Sometimes I'm too rigid or it's not working out

because perfection doesn't work out. I can't do it. I can't be perfect.

Did you know that? So hard. Hate it when it happens.

It's so hard. So I think I feel

very like oh forget it.

Right. I can't, I can't do it perfectly. Or

another stressor comes in that creates even more chaos. Or

I invite another stressor in and I go into fuck it

energy and the fuck it is my firefighter. It's like

who cares? Nothing's you can't fix this.

And it looks then like indulgence,

out of bounds behavior. It's like one's very, very

restrictive and one is very non

restrictive, almost chaotic. Yeah.

And that looks like maybe over shopping. I

know noticed recently that one of my main

I don't give a feelings is like I just buy

clothes, a lot of clothes. Like I want. I'll just sit on a Saturday morning

my phone and just order stuff that just, that's just, I

don't know that comes out of like over restriction

or I eat like I make brownies and eat five at one time

which I don't even want. You know, I,

I just kind of like who cares? Almost like a vacation mode

feeling. Yeah. Is that what you tell yourself like who cares or

it doesn't. Is it in reference to the other one, you know like it

doesn't matter anyways or it doesn't even work or. Yeah,

I'm actually not in control. I can't fix anything.

It's very low self esteem. It's like, look at how hard you

try and yet you can't even accomplish it.

And you really aren't anything. You aren't good.

You aren't good enough. Like that's where the exile

wound starts to get activated, right? That old wound.

It's like the manager does so much work. My fix, it

was so much work. Trying, trying, trying, trying. And yet

they can't quite make it happen.

And so then the wounded part still comes out and then

the firefighter comes and the fuck it's are like, nope, let's

shut this all down. Let's numb, let's not, you know, try

so hard. Let's let it go, you know. And it's from a

veer. It's not freedom. It's very

low self esteem. Soothing. Coping in a

way that is, you know, ultimately

damaging. Yeah. But feels short term.

Okay. Do you think it's kind of like, you know, how people kind of

fail ahead of time. It's like, well, if I'm just kind of a

loser now then, and I can admit it to myself, then nothing

anyone says or what anyone sees matters because I already know the

truth about it, you know, because yeah, it's a. Way of like sabotage

or failing in advance or not sticking to the

plan. Let's see that feels

fixed energy. Don't. You didn't stick to the plan. You're not following

through. Like it's mean, you know? And then that's where the firefighter is like, well,

you're obviously never going to achieve what you want ever, so let's just give

up. And yeah,

that's that fix cycle

that I've. I can look through my life and see

the pattern over and over and over again. And

I'm trying to remember the first time that I really

allowed myself to maybe get to the middle.

I hadn't really thought about it, but I do. I was in my life coach

training program around 2019 and it

was in getting in touch with hunger, like just

being okay with being hungry because the fix it, fuck it in my eating

disorder look like not eating and being

hungry or overeating and you know,

I know binge eat, that's not like a true for me.

But I overeat sometimes or over indulge

outside of my strict plan.

So like I'm not gonna eat bread, say and then that's part of the fix

it energy. And then I'm like eat four sandwiches

that day or something or like bunch of buttered toast. And that's all

I eat all day. And it's not like I ate three loaves of bread or

something. It just is that kind of outside of what's

actually healthy for me or feels good or serves my body in

any way. And so I kind of started to

maybe explore like what would it look like if I just was

hungry and just fed myself food? Like

being in the middle.

And what happened when you were kind of playing around with that did anything?

Well, it's so scary. It's very scary

because I just don't, I don't know about that

intuition or self led

space. I don't trust it. And I, I think that

the fear is that the wounded part or

the pain I'm avoiding is for sure gonna come. Like, it's

absolutely, it's like, okay, this week I'm not gonna

watch television at all. Cause I'm gonna be such

a good girl. And then the following week

I like watch so much television because

the restriction kind of leads to an expansion.

And I don't know how to be a person who just does

normal life or I didn't know.

And I just didn't know how to be in the middle. And I was so

scared. If I'm in the middle 100%,

I'm going to go to it all the time. Yeah. Like, you

can't survive without the manager, like the man. Yeah. That keeps you on

track. And without that. But the manager is just like, we're going to

be so managed, tightly managed, that nothing can

go wrong. Which is impossible. Yes,

exactly. And so if I, I could not trust

that in internal family systems they call ifs and ifs,

we're afraid that the wounded part will take over. Yeah.

And that, that will be, you know, completely

chaotic, out of bounds. So if I'm afraid that I'm going to

be abandoned by or socially

rejected and I'm not in the man, the manager's not doing

her job or I don't let her do her job, then

really that firefighter is going to take over and I'm going to do all these

bad things that then put me in a position where I'm rejected and that's my

fear. Mm. And

yeah. So then I got a course correct again and get back to fix it

and then go back and fuck it and fix it and fuck it. And I

just was so terrified that without rigidity, without the rules,

I would never get up off the couch. I would never eat

well. I would never achieve anything.

I would, I don't know, I just was like afraid I'd become this couch

person. It doesn't move

like that. It was so extreme what was going to happen. It

like really, the fear was so big. Yeah.

Yeah. So how do you, yeah.

How did you trust yourself to not

be totally engrossed in being managed by

the manager? I just tried it

out, I think. You know, I

remember one time coaching with you and I was talking about, I forgot about

this, but I was talking about this big wave or wall that I was like

holding myself up against and exploring

maybe what's on the other side of the wall. And like what would happen if

I just let that wave kind of crash. I thought for sure I would drown

or whatever. And just kind of creating an imagery around

maybe allowing that wave to crest and come down and

FL and be okay and trust

that like I, like, I'm like I got a floaty on. I'm, you

know there's a rescue boat nearby and just kind of really creating

a lot of safety within the risk

of maybe trusting and giving myself

kind of an out or like I was coaching somebody about a

fear they had around their child and it was very extreme. Like it went

so far to and, but it would take a long time for that extreme

problem to happen. And like, well, what are some of the

markers along the way that might indicate

that we're not on track here or we're like going off

the rails? Because I think we do that. It's like, oh, hold tight or

else. And the or else is so terrible and we don't

have a plan for it. And I think I was just working through like,

well, how would I know if the

uncontrolled part was taking over

and then what would I do? And like allowing the manager to be like, you

can always go back to fix it. Yeah, yeah. Can

always go back. Always go back and see what happens and

explore, you know, what went on there. So it just

became a relationship. In finding an in between and

establishing safety in, in internal family systems,

you have a part that's, that is you, that's not

part of your parts. Like it's your whole core self. It's your essence,

it's your, your spirit, your soul. They call it self. And

when we're working towards self led energy, self

never wants to hurt you. It's not going to let you get

hurt. You can trust that and it's going to take

actions that are from like calm and compassion and curiosity

and creativity and courage. And so when

you're self led then you,

the rest of the parts can relax because they're not in charge anymore.

It's a little bit like if you're religious you can let God

take over that and trust that God will make sure you're safe.

Some concept like that or like the universe has me or

you know, and so it's kind of cultivating a relationship with something outside

of these wounded protective systems. Right.

It kind of sounds like you're getting like your

prefrontal cortex online versus like your manager might be,

you know, flight. Like, like fight or flight. You know, like you're just going between

fight or flight almost, you know, and just getting back to a place of like

what is a good decision for me right now or like what's

next right step for me. Because otherwise the others just,

they just will take you. You know, you're, you're. It's like an

automatic kind of. Yep, totally.

It's like kind of that intuition piece. Right. Like really being able

to get really quiet. Like when I

think about the hierarchy of healing and you know we have

like radical listening and

really paying very, very close attention

to whatever the fix it fuck it situation needs to be healed.

And if that's like trust around the

kids or my, or money or my body

or my relationships or how I spend my time.

I have a very complex relationship with time and

getting to like okay, what do you really want to do right now?

And like okay, I want to watch a show.

Great. Let's check in after that show and see if you really

want to watch another one or if you want to move your body or go

do some other activity and it's be

befriending. They call it an ifs but like becoming really

close to those parts of you and, and working really on

a small scale. You know, I'm so global. The fixes

and fuck it's are very global. And this is a kind of a

smaller scale of like within myself of right

now, Today, the next

40 minutes or five minutes or

this afternoon or this week or a season of my life.

Yeah, that's so beautiful because it sounds like you're kind of shrinking

time down to like. Like you said the global. Like it just the

fix it is like let's come up with a plan. It's a six month plan,

a 20 part plan. You know, it's just like very linear way

out to the future. And then you know, same with probably everything. The

firefighters just there is no time. Like yeah, the

firefighter. There is no. There's no time. Like time doesn't matter. And

it's. That's very interesting. Yeah. Like, I never thought

about that, that those manager parts of me really in

the future so much and like making all these big plans

and it's so, so overwhelming. And

that's like, okay, we have to create so much order over everything. And

then the firefighters, like, no time. Almost like adhd, like just

now impulse, like now only. And this is a little bit

more of a middle space of like time exists but we don't have to

be so far in the future. We can just be now.

Right. But not an impulsive now. Like

Doritos candy, you know,

the most dopamine in the moment, you know, but

it's like what actually feels good for me or what's nourishing or

what? Yeah, Doritos candy. I'm gonna like keep that until

it's. Summer break for me. I

know. I think it's very fascinating. And I

found like, so I've been working on this for five or six years

and really seeing so

much freedom in my day to day life and in the way I think and

feel about myself that almost, it's like almost boring.

Like I've been talking about this and like contentment,

oddly enough is a little bit boring. Like the fire,

firefighting and like preventing fires and putting out fires

and creating. Having a feeling of chaos and

having a feeling, feeling of drama that everything is

like falling apart and it needs so much action from me.

A lot of my identity was built around those actions

and my time was spent with those actions. And when

I'm outside of the chaos of it all and I

have deep peace and deep contentment. And it's true.

And I can live in the middle of the fix it and fuck it and

be somewhat healed. It's like, huh.

I used to spend a lot of time criticizing myself and figuring out

ways to fix myself and I don't need to spend time doing that.

So what do I spend time doing instead? Which

is fun and also what do we

do? You know, like, how do we spend? Especially when you stop raising kids.

Yeah. So what? Can you answer that

question? Like, what does contentment feel like in your body? Or

what does it look like? And is that how you would describe a more middle

place? Contentment? Yeah, it's like peace.

Contentment. What does it feel like in my body? Feels very settled in my

tummy. Like

it's a weight in my stomach, but not like in a bad way. It just

feels like, groundedness. I think inside of my, like, core,

core self feels grounded and weighted.

So it's not so in the air, flighty, chaotic

stress. Like up, up in your chest and in your head and

moving all around. It's much more of a seated

place. Like a Buddha maybe, or something. You

know, like, just kind of grounded and.

Yeah, a lot more peace in my head. So I'm not

spinning and spending time trying to, like, solve

problems. But it. I do. I gotta admit, it's a little boring,

but I think it has to do with just create.

Creating there's room for something new. I don't yet know what that is

and being okay and not trying to

go to fix it. Yeah. Like,

for me, I think contentment feels scary. In the past, it

did. I. I don't know if I shared this on the podcast,

but one of the things that was true for me that I realized about

hunger is because I had experienced sexual violence as a kid,

that if I was a little hungry, then that

kept me paying attention to my body and kept me safe.

And I had this relationship to hunger where I need.

If I was full, then I maybe wouldn't pay attention and I

wouldn't be vigilant and I wouldn't be able to protect myself from harm.

Yeah. So. But I couldn't be too hungry because I kind of needed

to have energy to fight. Like, so I never went to

anorexia. I was too hungry, too. Then you disassociate

from your body altogether. That's not safe either. That's what

sexual abuse. That's what I did when I was being hurt.

And so I can't leave my body because that's not safe. But I can't

feel safe in my body. Martha Beck says the only way we can feel

safe is by. By not feeling safe.

And so I had a lot of that experience

of vigilance. And

now when I have this contentment, I'm learning to be okay with it.

That it doesn't mean I'm not paying attention,

it doesn't mean I've missed something and that I'm

about to be attacked. Like, rewiring the

parts, making your helping yourself feel safe

in that middle space. Because the other two were your

protectors. Yeah. And that's how you

created a sense of safety for yourself.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Contentment

for me was unsafe for a long

time. So

it's like, you know, I think anyone listening, it's like, you're like,

here, you know, be here now. Be present.

And maybe you don't quite Understand why you can't

be okay being okay. And

trauma, Trauma creates hyper vigilance. Trauma creates that

hyper aroused. Or the firefighter could be hypo aroused and then

hypo arousal could be scary and then you gotta kick back into the hyper aroused.

It's not being at a state. A neutral state of arousal puzzles you're up or

down. And so that neutral state,

I mean, especially if you grew up in a lot of chaos, like neutral state

means, oh shit, something is coming. And so

I've really had to spend time in neutral and in contentment and being

okay so that I could learn that this is safe

without a big plan. Right.

Yeah. I mean it makes. Yeah, it makes perfect sense when you understand

even like your nervous system because you're supposed to be in that kind of calm

neutral space where you can jump into hypo or hyper

at any moment. That's normal. But you're not supposed to stay there. But when you've

stayed at both ends, you've just kind of fried your.

Fried yourself a little bit. And it doesn't feel safe being where you should,

the normal place where you're ready to go either direction.

Yeah, yeah. I'm thinking about biofeedback, like neurofeedback.

They teach your brain to stay in a certain brain pattern. And your

brain is like off, off, off, off, off, off, off. And it kind of keeps

bringing it back to this midline, midline, midline. And the goal

is that you can stay in midline for longer periods of time. Then the brain

moves waves and it brings you back to midline. Teaches your brain how to

be in that homeostasis. And I think that

I hadn't really thought about this. Fix it. Fuck it.

And the middle being peace in contentment

with normal. Yeah.

Wow. Well, thanks for letting me share

my Fix it it ahas. Oh, relatable.

I think so many of us are in that cycle

and have those, you know, same kind of protectors.

Yeah. And I think that, you know, if anyone wants a takeaway, it's like

you do have a self inside of you. Right. You are,

you have a spirit, you have an essence, you have a core that isn't wounded,

that is eternal, is, you know, infinite, is

wise, is. We all have that divinity within

us, however you want to think about it. And

you, you can get to know that little part

and learn to trust it, have a relationship with it.

And you know, I'm not a religious person, but it's

like lay your burdens down right

to God or to whatever deity you think of, and

it's like, what if you can lay your own burdens down with

yourself and be healed within your

internal family system? It's available, and there's tons of

therapists that do ifs. I'm learning how to do

it, so I don't know if anyone wants to work with me. I'm not good

at it yet. But, yeah, I think getting help can

be really good. Just go find somebody who can

do this work with you if you aren't able to access it on your own.

Yeah. Yeah. Oh, that's so good. Yeah.

Well, thanks. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. Good to see you.

Good to see you, too.