People are so scared to make mistakes. That's why they get so depressed and

Your views on the way society is treating mental health is

not dissimilar to ours. Obviously, we know it's a real problem. Guys

Everyone does though. That's just how it is. It's how you deal with it and how you look

at things. If you want to like cry and get upset about it, then you're just going to be

These guys have some of the strongest mental fortitude because

Just say something's happened at a show beforehand. You've got to have something in

Welcome to the Better Bloke Podcast. I'm Matty. I'm Rob. And

we're just a pair of average blokes on a mission to try and be a

We're going to speak about all things highs and lows of what it feels like to be a bloke,

plus speak to some legends along the way about what it takes to be a better bloke. Let's

He spent most of his life on two wheels, growing up racing motocross.

Transitioned into the nitro circus and freestyle motocross. He traveled

the world doing shows. You got into content creation and

started one of the best photography studios in Australia. Thanks man.

You've gone on to have a couple of the raddest little whippersnappers. You got

Yeah. That was a great intro. That was nearly as good as Bruce Robson's Nitro

Oh, look, I'm going for the job. Is he due to retire soon or

Oh, sick. I'll be in. It's there for you. But that's why you're here.

You've done so many cool things in a relatively short amount

of time. And it's like, you've, you've had so many phases to

your life where you've gone from one cool thing to the next cool thing.

How does it feel kind of looking back at maybe the last 15 years

It's pretty cool. I guess, you know, if you told yourself this as a

kid, what you'd have, you definitely wouldn't believe it kind of thing. But I

guess, I don't know, I've just done what I've enjoyed all the time.

Like I've never really worked. I mean, I've hustled and

I've got shit done, but I've never like done anything I haven't wanted to do. That's probably

Where do you think that came from? Like that was obviously something

you did from day dot. Like you were riding bikes before you

Not really, to be honest, I didn't get my first bike until I was 14. So I

started really late. I always wanted one. And when I finally got

one, it was just like the best thing ever. And then I just, obviously just. Had

help from the parents and just got into it and kept going and then I

did work once my first ever job was Changing tires at

tire power. It was like the shittiest job changing tires.

I just had black hands for like a month and then I made

a mind John I Porter passed away and always had like his pictures on my toolbox and

that when I was working and When he died, I was just like that's it.

I was gonna ride try and get good But like that's a real late

time to get a bike as well. Do you reckon that's what helped you? I

don't know, get that hunger to actually give it a proper crack with writing because

you were, you're probably competing against a whole bunch of boys that have

Yeah. I guess I just had the more, yeah, I was more passionate about it and

more like, cause they'd kind of kids, you know, dads push their kids

when they're like four and five into writing. So then by the time

they're kind of 18, my age, they kind of just on

the way out, they're kind of over it. So I was kind of like so passionate. I

No, I, I think it's, it's very inspirational. Like

I've known you for a few years now and it

was probably on, I first met you, I think you were

still doing a bit of the Nitro stuff, but you were definitely transitioning into the

content side of stuff. What I

guess drove that transition and like, how

can you, how do you know when it's kind of time

Yeah, it was kind of weird. I guess I kind of did both. I'd never really thought that my riding

would kind of take off. So my parents always said like, you got

to have something else. So I always kind of was growing the photography thing on

the side the whole way through. Just, I just took every day as I

could with riding. Cause you never know what could happen with a crash or injury

or something like that. So I was always just kind of not growing it,

but just doing another love on the side. So whenever I was injured, like

a lot of riders get pretty depressed when they get break a leg and they can't do anything else

where I didn't get sad because. I had this other thing I was doing on

the side, which I could do injured. So if I had like a broken leg, which was pretty

much very common, so I could just pick up a camera and

still do shit. So I would be on tour and I would still like shoot all

the content for, um, not just circus and a lot of

their, um, sponsors videos and that while I was still on tour. So

When you're on tour, and this is something that we

talk a lot about, about is the people you surround yourself with. You

see guys going down into these holes and you look who they're around

and it's all other people in those holes. You're being surrounded by

people, you know, Travis Pastrana, like some of the raddest guys

on two wheels. Um, so it's just like going to

shows in countries and all these people are all doing cool

stuff and all chasing their dreams. They're going hard.

There's definitely a good positive environment to be around at. The first couple

of years was crazy, like you had the best skateboarders, best

rollerbladers, best BMXers, best everyone

there was like the best at what they did and it was a pretty cool vibe. I don't

What's that like doing a show with those kind of like, is it just a massive dick

It kind of was, but it was kind of more like that. I found like on

Krusty Demons where it was kind of just always just freestyle guys, but

because it was a mix of everyone, everyone kind of was the best

at what they did. So they didn't need to do that. Yeah. So it was like a self-respect thing.

So everyone pushed each other. Exactly. And everyone was pumped on what everyone else

did because they couldn't do that. So that was kind of the crazy cool

You mentioned injuries, right? So motorbikes

are notorious. There's a lot of dudes that do get

hurt. And like, obviously along the way you do

lose some people. How is having

that as such an inherent part of, you know, your career or

what you do being difficult to deal with

Yeah, it's kind of tricky, I guess. I don't know, the way I looked at it, I just didn't

think it was going to last forever. So I was just enjoying every moment I could. And

my whole, I guess, I was like that, I live in the moment, but also live

like a bit further ahead, where I was like, my whole new goal is

my freestyle career is to have kids one day and go riding

with them. So I had this long-term goal was just

to be able to walk and be able to ride with my kids. So as

long as I kept that in my head, that kind of kept me safe in a sense. Cause

no matter what happens, if like I couldn't do that, that would

crush me more than not being able to do the latest trick or not being able to get

on this tour. The end goal was worse, I

So you've achieved your life goal. Pretty much. How does that

Yeah, I was stoked. It was only probably about a month ago actually. Both

How does that make you feel with like knowing that

you sort of had that life goal to be able to do that and now you're doing it

with the possibility of them going

into what you were doing, like, obviously, you

didn't really have much self-preservation, or you did to an extent, but only

as much self-preservation as you can have when you're doing freestyle. What

I don't know, you're kind of stuck there, because I obviously love them riding in that. But then

if you try to stop someone from doing something, they'll probably want to do it more. So I

don't know. I guess I can just only teach them to

help them be smart and aware of what's going on. I don't know.

I don't know. I don't know where to go from here,

but I don't want to like feel like they ever want to

like have to do anything, like just whatever they want to do. But obviously

injuries are around, like two of my mates got paralyzed a

week ago, two of them, like two different ones, same

day they're in the hospital beds next to each other. But I don't want to, like, hide

that from my kids. I want them to know that this could happen. So

if you want to do it, it's your choice. Because I think there'd be nothing worse than

if, you know, being a dad and pushing your kid into sun ink, and then that

happens. It's your responsibility kind of thing. Yeah, it was your problem. Where

I'd rather my kids know the chances. Like, you guys are lucky to ride this.

This could happen. If you want to do it, it's your choice. That's what I kind of do with

my boys. Teaching them real-world shit. Yeah, like

shit can happen not trying to hide them from it I'd rather than know the consequences because

I've had it happen. I've seen guys in shows get paralyzed When

I'm in writing with them and then a month later They're sitting in a wheelchair while

you're trying to practice and it's there and it's a really it's

a head thing It's hard to see you obviously care so much,

Yeah. Does that fuck with you as you're like after, just

say something's happened to a show beforehand and

then you're getting out there to go do it now. Like you've got

to have something in your head that's going like, fuck, am I next? Or

You can't. I guess the one good thing about freestyle is like it's

a lot on you. You're not relying on teams, you're not relying on anyone else.

A little bit when you're doing trains that are close and you're following each other, you're relying

on people. But a lot of it is you just, it's

you. So as long as you can do everything right, you're fine kind of thing. I

We did a men's health event a couple of weeks back and one of the

other speakers was a high performance coach in rugby. And

like top tier guy, he was the essentially the

mindset coach for the All Blacks, the Warriors. I

don't know, you know the teams better than me. But the point is he

deals with the best athletes in the world. And I had

a discussion with him. A lot of my background is in action

sports and I said, These guys, I

believe have some of the strongest mental

fortitude because they're risking it all. Like, yes,

in rugby, you might go out there and snap an ACL, but every

time you're flying 75 foot through the air, like you need your

mind to be absolutely in sync with

your body. You need to be able to deal with the risk involved. And

I think just mentally, some of these action sports athletes

mentally. Yeah, it's a weird thing because you

don't realise all that stuff when you're kind of doing it. You're just kind of learning along

the way. But years ago, when I met Jacko Strong,

when he taught me how to flip and stuff, and it took me a long time. It

took me like a year to actually get my head around it all. And he used to

listen to these like hypnosis tapes about motivation and stuff

like that. And he's always done that, and he's done

everything he's ever done in freestyle. He's top of his game. And

it worked for me. It cleared me up and just made me kind of focus on what

I needed to. And I know there's a lot of top guys who do that stuff, but

So it's not just that you have a screw loose. You actually do shit to try.

Yeah, that's the thing. I think people don't get taught that at school. I think it

should be a thing that you should teach. You get taught how to look after your body and stuff,

And do you do that now? Like we spoke about it last week

where like I've got a little fella and like we'll

do like gratefuls and all that sort of shit every night just so he knows

to, I don't know, before he goes to bed he thinks about like the good shit that

And that's exactly what I do. I think that's something they should, everyone should teach

people, teach kids like how to combat things like that. Cause

everyone gets shitty times and you harp on things, especially when you're laying

in bed and you've actually got time to think. Like, if I get

stuck in that and I get something repetitive in my head that's kind of negative, I would just

think of going to some, like, happy place and just think about some track riding

or my kids getting born or something good. And that can kind

of, like, escape for a moment. But I think people, you know,

I like to think if you can be in a bad mood for no reason,

you can be in a good mood for no reason. That's true. Yeah, definitely. So

there's definitely strength. Sometimes I'm in the car just

like literally forcing myself into being in

a good mood. I'll just like start talking all positive shit. It actually

I don't know. I reckon they should teach that stuff. The

mind is so important. I know a lot of healthy fit guys,

but they're not the fittest up in their minds. Sometimes they're

the most depressed, to be honest. I think you've got a healthy mind

Fuck yeah, I'll write that. I have the sloppiest rig, but I am

I was noticing people go to the gym and they just got there. They're the most messed

up people in the head. Not like obviously everyone, but just I got a couple of mates and

that's all they chase. And they don't even know that they're not happy. They're not happy

You're asking random question. What's what word? Yellow. Everyone's

Um, being self aware. All right. So

being self-aware is what a lot of

blokes are lacking and they think, you

know, they know themselves, but like, as you start peeling back the layers and

like looking back a little, little deeper into why you actually do things,

why you feel a certain way at a certain time, what's happening, how

you're reacting to stuff. I think that's probably the space that

maybe kids are being taught a little bit better now or should be. And

I think that's what we kind of lacked a little bit growing up and we've had to learn it

I think a lot of it comes down to, well, what we're trying to do now

is like have these conversations with weapons like you, where

like you and I can both go, yeah, sweet. We're teaching our kids like to

do these little tricks here or you're questioning why aren't kids

doing this now? There's going to be a bunch of boys that are going to listen to this and go, Oh

fuck. I'm going to go home and do this now. And even

if, I don't know, we get three guys that actually go

and action it. Yeah. That's three sets of kids now

that are going to be able to go and talk to their kids, like

talk to their mates at school and go, I did this last night. And it's just

Yeah. You definitely hope so. And yeah. I

don't know, I guess I was lucky. I just kind of figured it out along the

way on my own. But yeah, a lot of people probably don't. And I can't speak

for everyone and everyone's situations, but that's just what's worked for me. It's just always

try to find, it's just simple things, I guess. Like find something positive

in everything bad and nothing bad ever happens. And that's

what I've always lived by. And if it's not going to kill you, like, I guess coming

from freestyle where it actually could kill me, then everything

else is easy now. It's all crime. And

that's kind of why I've taken heaps of risks in business because to

me, it's just money. It's not going to, I'm not going to break my neck or die

And that's so you, you've gone from essentially crushing

it in a freestyle, super competitive, super

dangerous world. You're now crushing it in

business too. Like you're doing some, some pretty gnarly shit in

business. Like you're, you're photographing like the

biggest brands in the world. Some of what the

biggest models, like you're doing heaps of product stuff. You've built

some cool shit now too. Like what? What

stops you from actually, I don't know, looking

back at that risk other than just what you mentioned then? with

the FMX stuff. Is there anything else or just full sends all

Yeah, I don't know. Just have a go. And don't listen

to your mates, I reckon. They're business. Unless they're good at

their business, it's like you wouldn't take medical advice from your mate. They're

good to have a beer with at the pub, but don't let them talk to

Yeah, where you want to be and actually know what they're talking about. There's so

many people who just like try to bring everyone down. I hate that. So I've just always

Yeah. So sick. One of the reasons I

wanted to get you on here was your views on, I

guess, the way society is treating mental health is not dissimilar to

ours. Yeah. So obviously we know it's a real problem. Guys

have hard times, but I think everyone does though.

Oh, everyone does. Yeah. We've started saying bloke

is almost like a term for good people. Oh, yeah. Women

I think everyone has shit times. That's the problem. It's not the problem.

That's just how it is. It's how you deal with it and how you look at things.

If you want to cry and get upset about it, then you're just going to

Yeah. So that's why I wanted to get you on because of this, this train of

thought. So if you sit there and you're, you know, pitying

yourself, if you're trying to blame other people, if you're trying to

say, you know, it's okay to feel terrible

and depressed and I'm going to sit in it. It's

not going to get you out of it. And that's something you've never done. you've

always been able to get your mind in the positive place in

bad situations, because you've probably gone through some tougher stuff than

most people as well, like from injuries to uncertainty and

Yeah, like one crash might lose like

60 grand instantly because you cut off the rest of the tour. They need to replace you,

so you get no money. It's like you're years gone of wage

when I was younger. And I don't know, you just got to suck

I know I sound dumb, but I never even got slightly

depressed by that. I was just like, oh, well, I learned whatever,

It comes back to that whole sort of, it's okay to make mistakes as

Yeah, it is fine to make mistakes. I think people are so scared to

make mistakes. That's probably why they get so depressed and in so much anxiety and

it kind of, they're too combined, I think, because the anxiety is about, they

don't want to make a mistake. So they get so scared and

I find a lot of the time, if I'm like super nervous

or worrying too much about shit, that's when I'm more likely to

make mistakes other than just backing myself completely and

Totally. And it's good to have a bit of anxiety. I guess it prepares you for

whatever's coming up kind of thing. It's just a natural thing. But if

You said it earlier, being comfortable

with risk is something that's been beneficial to

you from your writing to your business. That's something people freak

out about, right? Like whether it's leaving their

job and not having that paycheck coming in so they can actually go and chase a

dream or literally anything else they want to do. A

lot of people are not comfortable with risking it. Like

you said, it's only money at the end of the day. How do you think

or have you seen people or yourself take risk

I've just seen it work with so many of my mates. If they have

a steady job and they take that chance to go out on their own, and if they've thought about

it enough, it always seems to work out for them. I've never known anyone

who's gone out and taken a chance on their own and then failed. Because they've

taken the time, they've been thinking about it for a year or two years in

their job, and they finally build up enough to take that chance, and

it's always worked for them. So I don't think it's even a

risk, really. You've obviously put in the work, and

Yeah, with good preparation, I a hundred percent agree. Yeah. Like

it's just so scary for a lot of boys to take a shot.

Yeah. What are they? I don't know. It depends on what they're trying to, what they're worried about losing. Are

they just embarrassed they might fail? Are they scared they

won't have that nice car that they're trying to show off to their mates? Like

Do you find it's harder to take risks now that you've got the kids and all that sort of

I should, I should more what I should, but my

Yeah. Cause like, I don't know, see, I've got that with, well,

Jess is the same with me. She'll keep me in check with

big loud ideas and whatnot. I mean, we're

taking a risk with this. It's an egg, it's a calculated risk, but you

know, we're doing some cool shit and all that sort of stuff. But I

find that. Like my ability to worry about

risk is sort of outweighed by the fact of wanting to do

And that's good for you. That's another positive somewhere else.

So I want the kids to be able to go like, oh, my dad did this or

like, you know, just little cool stuff like that. It's sort of subsidized

Totally. And then I get vibes off them

because I see them every day. They learn something new and they just get so excited.

And then I'm like, I'm not dead yet. I can sort of do new cool shit too. So

it kind of keeps pushing me as well. My kids do the

That's sick. I think that's one of the best things about having kids is when Not

when they start to get close to you though, although your, your ones are pretty little still aren't you? Oh

yeah. Three and four. Yeah. So they're probably not rivaling you with too many things

I think that's the best thing. It's do you, do

Yeah. Do you reckon that's a, that's a big thing with, I

don't know, keeping you hungry. Cause obviously you're pretty competitive with

Totally, but as long as they're happy, as long as they're having fun, like, I don't care. You

Kind of not. It's so different. It's weird. You probably know. The kids are just so

different. Like, you can do exactly the same thing, treat them

the same. Well, you think you treat them the same, but I guess you obviously don't. The

first ones obviously do a lot more, and the second one you're kind of a bit cruisey

See, I think we were the opposite with our one and two

because the way that our second one came in was hectic. Oh,

okay. And all that sort of shit. But so you went more like, yeah,

I think the second one was more sort of baby than the first one, but like,

Yeah, mine are only a year and two days, I think apart. Yeah, that's why.

Something you said to me a fair few years ago now, I think we were on a

shoot and there's a handful of quotes that like live in

my head. Yeah. This is a Matty Mac quote. You said,

you can have it all, but not at once. That's

probably my favorite one, yeah. That was before you had kids, right? So,

you know, you kind of live this life where you're flying around the world, you're doing the

business, you're doing the photos, and now you like have this super

like wholesome life where the business is, I guess, set

up to be not intensively time consuming. Yeah.

And you get to spend all this time with these young kids, which That

was always one of the things I thought if I ever had kids, I'd

love to be able to be set up enough to

And I think it's like not everyone's situations, but

a lot of people can, they just choose to make more money or I

That's sick. Well, that's why I loved being on the tools and

then got off the tools to get back into sales because I

love doing school pickup or being able to drop them off or having

that flexibility if I need to be able to go, I'm not

letting a team down. I can go, hey, call the

boss up and go, he's got a sports day today. I'll go to the

I do little shit like that. It's so much more rewarding. I

take every Tuesday off and just spend it with the boys. It was kind of hard at first. My

clients, they didn't really understand. Now everyone accepts it.

That's sick, because you only get so much time with them throughout every

age bracket they're in. So I respect that so

That's so cool. It's not easy to do, but I guess I've just kind of

been in good situations where what I've built doesn't involve, like you

said, too much time. So I can kind of let people in the studio and then

I can kind of leave and stuff like that. I don't know what,

I guess, I remember like an old guy said to me once, he was like, um,

kids grow up, or lots of people, old people say like kids grow up so quick

and I was just like, he's something to that. He's, I think it's because

I don't spend enough time with them. That's why they grow up so quick where I feel

like my kids haven't grown up quick at all. Cause I've spent so much time with them. It feels slow.

Right that. The, yeah,

there's the whole them riding bikes thing. It's just

kind of. It makes me so happy to see, like,

I was trying to hold them out till I was like 15, like myself, to

Between you and April, your partner, like

they didn't probably have much hope and not doing rad stuff. How's,

um. I guess how's seeing them sort

of like getting to live this lifestyle

that you might've imagined they did, they

would do, but you didn't want to push them into it and they naturally sort of

wanted to do it. Like it's got to feel good saying like, oh,

it's cool. When Mac was riding the stock. Yeah. That was

mental. Like a four year old riding this, one of the most powerful bikes

It was cool. But then he didn't think it was cool. So he just

thought that he took it for granted. Right. So that kind of like, not

took away from it, but it was just like, oh, I was like, he's just, he's so

naturally talented. He didn't think anything of it. So I'm like, fuck, maybe it's too

early for that stuff. I would have killed for

It's just one of those things where. He just got off and

he was just like, literally he rode around and he's just like, I was

How many messages did you get from people going like that's crazy?

Everyone's pretty good to be honest. Yeah. I was out of control. It

was just such a

heavy bike, actually. That's the biggest thing. But I just thought he would ride around the paddock, but

then he started like following the track like perfectly. But that was the

cool thing about that bike. Cause you can dial it down to like barely moving and

there's still, he's got his hand brakes on his things. He's fine. Did you see the

Yeah, I was just like right around with him, let him do the throttle. And then I just kind of like, so

And he was stretched out, like legs were straight just to

But I still try, like, I definitely don't want to push them into the bike thing. Like

we still take them like, I take them rock climbing once a fortnight. We

started jujitsu, just trying everything. I just want to see what they're like.

I don't want to feel like they should do that. Cause I do it kind of thing. Just

try everything. And they are just naturally like talented and everything. Cause they're

not scared. Like you take this, like a four year or three year old to a rock climbing center.

They don't even care that the height, they just like trust that everything's going

That's the, where do you reckon fear comes from? It's

probably a question for both of you. Cause obviously like I've seen

it with my two. They don't have fear at

They just trust us. I think if we, if we like, if I say you'll

be fine, they're just like, okay, dad says you're fine. We'll be fine. They

If you're not going to be scared of nothing. Yeah. Cause that's true. Cause that's something that

All the nuts shit you've done. Yeah. It's obviously, yeah. And

that's what it is. Like with freestyle, it's the same roller coaster for

every rider. You just like get up, you get confident, confident, crash,

lose all your confidence. And you slowly build up over a year of no crashes, break

an arm, back down. It's just like a roller coaster. It's a big cycle. Your whole career is

just ups and downs. And if you get away with more,

you're just going to keep doing more and more until it's a bigger crash. And then you just straight

Yeah, that's something I had to deal with. Like I was racing downhill

as a teen. I'm like, I was never like that top

tier dude. I was racing the nationals and stuff, but it was never going

anywhere, but I was still getting hurt just the same. And I

had to look at it going like, this is not even close to becoming a

job for me. Like it took me about until

I was 20 years old to be like, Like I literally

can't break stuff because I was like bartending at the time. I

kind of broken wrist. I won't be able to pay for anything. And

that's for me when the risk was like, it's

not worth it. Like I can't do it. And it was mainly a

Yeah, so I had that with, I stopped playing

footy, went on the tools. The week I got off the tools and

back into sales, had our last game of the season.

And I just had, didn't have to worry about hurting myself. So I'm like, oh, I'm back in sales now.

ACL, MCL, Patel, I just blew it all to bits. All

my self-preservation went out the window. I'm like, oh yeah, that's

right. You're shit at footy and you're really old now. You

You get that. So you, Pretty

So how, how do you see your life sort

of going over the next 10 years? Is it centered around, you know, family

and just like continuing to do cool stuff? Cause you're still doing the,

like the desert dads and the still getting out on the bike. You're

Yeah, I don't actually know, to be honest. It's a good question. I don't know what I'm trying to aim

for now. I kind of actually need to find a new goal. Honestly,

I think it's just the boys kind of change everything when they

come along. I didn't really have any more goals. It was just kind

So I don't know. Conor McGregor said it, I think. If

you live in the past, you're depressed. If you live in the future, you're anxious.

Yeah. So I guess that's kind of where I'm at at the moment. I'm not

trying to chase things. I'm not trying to build. I used to have a dream of having

big studios in Melbourne and Sydney and doing it all, replicating

it. But then I'm like, I don't need to. I'm fine. I'm happy.

I kind of like these, I'm not chasing anything anymore. I've got everything I

How important do you think it is to rather than achieve

bigger and bigger goals is to be content

Oh, 100%, everything. Your car, your drive, everything,

your house you're in, situations you're in, you kind of just got

to like, actually, like, yeah, like, enjoy what you've got, because people

don't have, people look up to, would look up to you and think that you've, you

know, got the world. So, I don't know, it's just enjoying

Did that shift for you? Was there a time like 10 years ago

Nah, I've never, I've never been like that ever. I've, I've,

I lived like in the smallest little shared house with like eight

people just to kind of save up money to buy a business. Like I was never

about impressing anyone with anything, just always done what I wanted. Drove

like the old bone up van that used to stop on the side of the road and

I'd get off and walk the rest of the way to work and stuff like that. Like,

I think that's the thing that everyone sees. Everyone will see

all the cool stuff that you've done and the highlights of, I

guess, Maddie Mac's done all this wicked shit,

but they wouldn't know you're living in share houses to do

stuff. The journey that it takes to do the

cool shit, no one sees that. They just see the

No, I still have fun and I still love doing it. I've never depressed about it,

but it's just things you take. I think just kids these days, they

think they need to meet a girl, and they spend all this money impressing a girl

living in this nice, fancy place they can't afford. Not fancy,

but you know. You just kind of just got to, like, if

you want to get ahead in life, you kind of just got to suck it up. You got to live somewhere you don't want to live

Yeah. Too many people are living beyond their means. That's, that's

probably the better way of putting it. It's bullshit because

it's so much of it's driven by social media too. Yeah. You're

saying, you know, Bali trips and fancy cars and

just all this fucking bullshit. Yeah.

And it's cool that you've never really engaged with it.

you're a very humble kind of guy, which is, it's good. More

people probably need to conduct themselves in

that way because until you have that, you're probably not going to be

They're the pretty ones though. So

like you've, you've done, Some, some cool shit, like

throughout your stretch of your life. I've just

That comes back to you being super humble. Um, like what are your,

your biggest achievements that you've, that you've done?

Like, if you look back from, you know, your first memory

to right here, sitting on this couch with us now, and

you had to pick three, like what's your, your three biggest achievements

I know, I guess like obviously growing up when I was like 14, 15, before

I even really had a motorbike, I just watched my videos and it's like, see

the guys and that. And pretty much all those top guys that I looked up

to, I got to ride with at one point for like months.

And that like me and Travis Pastrana used to be like synchro partners in

the show for four or five years. So we would do all our same

tricks. We would like touch double cans in the air and do all that

Cause stuff like that, like I know things that I'd never, you wouldn't even like

people say, is this a dream? And like the dream come true. I'm like, no, it would never

even considered dreaming it to like, it was a waste of time. But to

do stuff like that. And then just to travel the world and do

what I love, like there was nothing better. Like I used

to just every pretty much show big show, I would like take

one second on top of the ramp when it was like a couple hundred thousand people.

And I would just like take like three seconds just to soak

it in, I guess. And I felt like that was my

way of just like putting it inside me. So I never would miss

it, I guess, because I actually took the time to enjoy it. I feel like people only

miss things in life when they haven't really enjoyed them. So

Yeah. So good. Love that you're putting together a life

Yeah, I don't know. I never really kind of talked about it, but I guess, yeah, I

just, yeah, I know. I think you just got to appreciate the moments. So if you actually

That's the biggest thing that anytime we have someone that, you

know, puts up in the group or I'm getting married or. You

know, what's the best bit of advice, the best bit of advice I ever got about

like a wedding day or which, like you just said, you can use in anything is

like take five and just enjoy the moment, enjoy the

day. Cause everyone gets so caught up in a moment

or the hype around like a situation and they don't actually appreciate what

You've got, if you, and it's, it's the biggest thing you can do. If you just appreciate it

Yeah. I I've done that when I'm on shoots in like some crazy ass

locations and it's almost like you're like loading it

into the memory bank. Seriously. You're like, let's soak this in. I

won't remember the whole thing, but. All right. I'm going to remember what

I'm looking at now, how I'm feeling right now. And

Yeah. It's life-changing I reckon. And I

used to do it like once or twice at the start and I was like, holy shit. And then I could

just. Whenever I was sad, I could just go back to that moment, because it

was right in the memory bank, like you said. And I

think that's, yeah, I know. It doesn't matter what it is. It doesn't have to be like

So that's cool to see. Like I'm sitting with two photographers that can capture moments,

but these are both saying that like, fuck the photos,

like capture it in your head and like live in the now where you

I'm big about that. I guess. Yeah. When you feel like that, I guess that is why

we kind of do it. And they say, what, um, if you

ever want to say, say what a photographer is scared of losing, look at what they photograph

most. A lot of the time it's you.

Maybe not your work stuff, but like your personal stuff. Like if you're taking photos

of your kids the most or whatever you'd love doing, like that's what you're,

Yeah. It's mainly photos of my dogs. That holds up. Screenshot of

tens. For

lack of a better term, you pretty much met

your idols in the likes of Travis Westina and stuff like

that. He would have been very popular, popular when

you were growing up and getting into the scene. Do you remember what it was

like when was an invitation? Like how did that

initial connection start? And was that one

Yeah, I can't remember when we first met, to be honest. But yeah,

I don't even know, to be honest. I guess it kind of just happens kind of fast, but slowly.

And then you're kind of there. And then you just got invited to the tour.

And you're kind of just in the room. And then next, you're riding together. And

I can't remember, I know Starstruck, Rob had one the other week.

Oh yeah, look, I fangirled hard the other week. Who

was that? That was Liam Paro. So he's the

IBF world champ for boxing. And yeah, I got a little bit

excited and all my cool, calm, collective

composure just went out the fucking window. I

Yeah. I've found that like, obviously like in what we do, we do

have like big people coming into shoots and stuff. You meet influencers, celebrities,

whatever. And if there's no like personal connection, like

I feel like I could meet like a Chris Hemsworth and yeah, like

It's until you do something like that's memorable with those people, like out on

the drink and piss and having a, you know, like more like a down to

Yeah. Or if it's someone that's like completely in alignment with

what you want to do, which is why I ask about Travis. Yeah. Cause I

kind of had it. I'm went over to Casey Neistat studio. Oh yeah.

Yeah. Like I'm like, man, like I'm in the room

where like this dude taught me how to use a GoPro like 15 years ago.

It was, a critical part of forming, like,

everything I've done in my life. And that, for me, I

did the memory thing now. I'm like, I'm in this room right now. Processed

Yeah, I guess it's still, like, about, yeah, probably 10 years ago now, so it's

Well, even now, like, you'd be meeting some pretty cool people still. Do

you... Do you not have, like, that little

starstruck moment with some of the guys? Or are you just like, eh, if they're cool, they're cool, if not,

I don't know. I've always just kind of like treated,

I try to treat everyone just exactly the same. It doesn't matter who it is. And

that's what's worked with us in business and that. Everyone is the same. And

that's what I guess I learned from Travis Pastrana. He

was literally like that. He would talk to some old guy at a pub about

his DRZ 400 for like an hour. That was his biggest problem actually.

When we were on tour, we actually had to do shit and move along. And he

would pull over a bus just to stop and talk to people. He just didn't think

he was better than anyone else. It was the coolest thing. Like, I think every

young kid motorbike rider needs to meet him to realise that they think,

because they think they're the shit in their little scene. But yeah, it's

just such a different thing when you actually see someone actually at the top of their game have

I think that's the biggest thing that we've learned. Everyone we've had on, they're just humble as

fuck. And that's why we're getting the boys on that

we want to get on is because they're just

normal blokes that have done some cool shit. Everyone

we've spoken to, completely normal, just

And on that note, I think we're going to call this one a wrap, but thanks

for coming on and sharing your story. I think there's so many

elements in it that you don't almost

have done subconsciously throughout your life, but the way you've been

able to like conduct yourself and think your way through moments, even

if it came naturally to you, uh, aspects people can pull

Yeah, totally. I think, yeah, I think just have some, do some research on

like the mind and how powerful it is. Like that's how I kind of fell into it years

ago. Like when I was like probably 13, 14, my dad

had had some books, my stepdad, so I had some books about mental health

and not mental health more. It was back then, it was just about mind control and

how you can like, you know, have thinking the

right thoughts and that like that. And I used to, I got real stuck into this book, just one

randomly. And I almost went down this rabbit hole for like years reading stuff and

I don't know, you can actually train, yeah, to train your brain makes a difference. Your

brain's a muscle, isn't it? It's 100%. And

Sweet. So they can find you, all your links are down

there. Go check out the stuff he's doing, it's really cool. I love the stuff you're

doing with the kids. I reckon it's awesome for all the dads. We'll

put your studio and stuff down there too. You want to take photos of your sick car?

He's got the best car studio on the coast for sure. And

And as always, be better. Thanks for tuning into today's episode

of Better Bloke. If you got anything out of it, show some love by dropping a five star

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