Welcome to Close it now, the podcast that's revolutionizing the H Vac and home improvement trades industries. Get ready to dive deep into the world of heating, ventilation and air conditioning. We're turning up the heat on industry standards and cooling down misconceptions. And we're not just talking about fixing vents and adjusting thermostats. It's about the transformative movement that's reshaping the very foundation of H Vac and home improvement. We're the driving force, inspiring top performers who crave excellence not only in their professional endeavors, but also in fitness, nutrition, relationships and personal growth, proving that we can indeed have it all. This is Close it now, where excellence meets excitement. Let's get to work. Now, your host, Sam Wakefield.

Hey, hey, hey. Welcome back. Sam Wakefield here, and I am joined today by this guest. His name is Kent Bull. You may have seen him flying around social media, you may have not, but I'm pretty stoked today because of where he's connected. His. His reputation goes before him. And what we're going to be talking about today is call by call, management. What is it? What is it not? What does it look like? What does it not look like? Best practices, bad practices. Might even hit it with a little bit of devil's advocate here because not even devil's advocate. I think it's good for some things and personally have some strong opinions against it for some ways. But we're going to unpack all of that today in this episode and see where it falls. So thanks for joining us today, Kent. Man, I'm super stoked to have you on the show.

Yeah, thank you. Thank you for having me.

Yeah, for sure. Well, let's start off with a little bit of a history reel. Give everybody a. The highlight reel of, you know, how your journey through the trades, how you ended up now, where you are and what you're doing, and also give everybody a bit of a philosophy. How do you carry yourself? How do you function? You know, something you function from, that really drives you.

Yeah, yeah. Well, yeah. Let me give you a little bit. I have a vast history, I guess, in the trade, so I'll kind of condense it as much as I can. But it started when I was nine years old working with my dad as an electrician. He had his own electrical business and he was also commercial refrigeration technician. So he had a master's in both. So obviously I did both. It was just him and I, we had no employees or anything like that. And after high school, I was an electrical foreman and then in 2005, he said, Hey, I don't want to do the electrical anymore. I just want to do the refrigeration. And so if you get your master's, you can go ahead and take the electrical. Even though there wasn't like, quote unquote, a lot there, I was stoked. Right. So 23 years old. I became an electrical contractor at 23. And I didn't think I was that young at the time, but looking back at it, I was like, that's pretty crazy. At 23, maybe.

Perspective. Since you started at 9, it felt like you were a full grown adult, Right. Teenagers, right?

It did. It absolutely did. I never felt, you know, I always felt older than my actual age, but so I did that and I mainly wired new homes, large, large homes. Like we wired the CEO of Sun Country Airlines home, you know, big houses in Minneapolis, Minnesota, and. And then there a great recession of 2008, 2009 came and all my builders went out of business, didn't have any work both. And I found SGI at the time, some people know what SGI is now called Certain Path. But back in the day when I did that, it was actually part of Clockwork Home Services. And Clockwork Home Services owns a franchise at the time, a franchise side and a non franchise side. So the franchise side is Benjamin Franklin Plumbing One hour heating and air conditioning, Mr. Sparky Electric. And then they own the non franchise side. Which is, which was. What I was on was the Airtime.

500, all of that, right?

Yep. Right? Yeah, Airtime 500. Electrician success, plumbing success. And then they actually had roofing later on and. And they had like a profit day in Minneapolis. I went to it, they explained like the residential repair and replacement model. And I mean, I never heard of any of this before. And for electrical, it was really new. Like, there were very few companies back there that did residential service only. It was, you know, H vac plumbing. But electrical is kind of a rare thing. And I heard this and I was like, I'm in. Like, I. I was born for this. Like, literally, I'm born for this. And so I joined on the spot and I joined sgi and after a couple years, I was promoted to the executive advisory board. So I was sat on the advisory board for five years. I helped develop a lot of their electrical sales processes, their pricing model, their pricing book. I would help new clients that came in kind of get their feet wet. I would sit on panels at the expos and I would do trainings and things like that.

Sure.

And so I built that business up to about 6 million in revenue doing electrical only. Then I purchased an H Vac company in town who was an Airtime 500 member. They were doing about 8 million. And then I purchased a PSI company in the area and I rolled those all together and I created a company called Service Today.

Yeah.

And. And then again, I rolled that business into what is now called Platform Partners. And then I just took it out and I sold it to private equity, so.

Nice.

So I always say I've. I've kind of been every part of it. I've been the guy crawling through addicts, running service calls all the way to where, you know, I am.

So I love it. So that actually is. Thanks for the history. It's really fun when we come across different people that are guests on the show. It's like, how did you end up where you did? Because everybody's journey is always so wildly different combinations of things that go into who the person is now.

Right, right.

So that's a cool segue because. Well, one is all of the amount of exits that you had are really cool. Being involved with and selling to, you know, some private equity stuff is really fun. Obviously, that's a hot topic lately.

Right.

But the other thing that you picked up along the way is in. Especially in your scaling and your growth is callback home management. What is it and how does that work? So give us a. Give us a good overview before we dive into, you know, some of the nuts and bolts of it.

Yeah. So, you know, when I bought the H Vac company, so electrical, I was doing very well in, I mastered that. I had it done. We were very profitable, did very well. When I bought the H Vac company, I thought it would run similar to electrical, and it doesn't. So anybody's in plumbing. If anybody's in plumbing or electric and jumping into H Vac, I'll just tell you it's a whole nother monster. It doesn't run the same, it doesn't operate the same. And I struggled for two to three years. I was probably negative 5% profitable in that department, maybe more, maybe worse than that. And I was with sgi. They weren't able to help me. That organization changed a lot over the years. I joined Service Excellence Training. I joined Praxis S10. I was with a lot of these groups and nobody really could help me. And I was doing about 8, 16 to 18 million at the time. So I was kind of a little bit too big for some of the. I think for some of these organizations.

Sure.

And when was this?

What kind of year?

So that would have been like, 20, 18, 16 to 18, like right in there.

So kind of on the front end, cusp of some of these companies that have blown up so huge.

Yeah.

Weren't not nearly as many that had, like, the systems and stuff to just be able to help people.

Right, right. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And so I found my mentor, my business coach, Louis Bruno, and I hired him to help me. And he introduced me to his H Vac sales model, which is the one I teach today. And he introduced me to call by call management. And what? Call by call management. Oh, and by the way, once I implemented the sales structure and the call by call management, I mean, it literally changed the business overnight. We went from, like I said, in probably a negative 5% ish to a positive 10% ish in about three months.

Wow.

Like, completely turned it around.

Right.

We had a 70% gross margin in our maintenance department in H Vac. That's usually unheard of for most companies. Usually they're losing money in their maintenance.

The service truck's always the loss leader.

With service truck sales to fund the install department. Right. And so it was an absolute game changer. And then once I started running that model in H Vac, I was like, man, I know how to do this in electric. I know. Exactly. So I created an electrical version. Literally changed our electrical department for the better, even though it was doing well.

Sure.

And then, of course, we created a plumbing model after that. And those are the models we run in our platform right now with the 30 companies in there. Sure. Call by call. Unless you have other questions. But I can kind of go, no, that's good.

Yeah, let's do a big overview.

I can talk a lot on this topic.

Well, that's good.

So call by call, I always say, is four different elements. So the first one is a strict sales process. Like, if we're going to, quote, unquote, call by call, manage, we have to kind of know what's going on in the home without actually physically being there. If we're going to kind of ride along with every technician, per se. So I don't, you know, I don't want my technicians to be robots, necessarily. That's not what it is. But they do have to hit certain, you know, milestones, certain points throughout the process so we know what's going on so we can manage it call by call.

Sure. Well, that's just having a professional process that's not, you know, making somebody a robot. That's just like here's the data we have to have. Here's the.

Exactly.

Here's the. Even more important. Sounds like, here's the emotional communication information. We also need to have not just how big, how wide's the plenum.

Right, right. Yeah, right, right, right. Yeah. It's, it's the key points. Right. And then we have actual, what we call call by at certain key points in the process. If we get a decline on a sale, the call by call manager or sales manager is required, not optional. They're required to get on the phone with the homeowner, not the technician, the homeowner. So a lot of people get that mixed up. So basically the technician does what they're supposed to do and propose the item they're supposed to propose. And if the customer doesn't want to move forward with it, it's kind of like, okay, move to the side, technician. It's our turn now, and we're going to see if we can save this call. Because right now marketing is insanely expensive. I mean, people are paying 4 to $600 per lead from pay per click and things like that. So these are gold opportunities that we're paying a lot of money for. We can't just roll over and die, per se. When the customer says no, sure, absolutely. And I mean, you're closing now, you know that. But, but, and so, but we have to have the opportunity. Right? Like, it can't just be. Yeah, that one didn't go well. I'll send me my next call. Like, it can't just be like that. And so there's.

Okay, we're gonna get back in three months from now and hope for the best.

Right? Yeah, yeah. Right. Yeah. Oh, they'll call back. I'm sure that, you know, that's what every sales guy says. Right? They're gonna call.

It's a be back.

Absolutely. And, and then there's what we call remote ride alongs. So it's using software. Some people use slack, some people use WhatsApp, Microsoft Teams, even text messaging, if it's a smaller business. But really what it is is the technician is sending information to the sales manager or the call by call manager in real time while they're in the house. Right. And we call it the vital. Just like going to the doctor. Right. So there's certain vitals. Plumbing has their set of vitals. Electrical, H Vac, we all have our set of vitals. And when the vitals fail, we want, we're going to sell them a type of diagnostic. And it's not we don't call it that. They have different names, but basically we're selling them an idea of, hey, your, your, your vitals failed. Right now we got to figure out why they failed.

Right.

And we charge between 500 and $1,500 to the customer to figure that out. And what that does is it locks us in with that customer because once they spend money with you, statistically they don't price shop you after that.

Right.

Plus you're getting paid for your knowledge, which is one of those things that I'm really passionate about. So you said earlier, what's one of the things you talk about? And I say sell your knowledge 100% as a technician. Your years of experience is the most valuable thing you own. And I think it's the most devalued thing in our industries because we're giving it away for free or for a $99 travel fee or an $89 rate, we're going to diagnose your system for $89. It's like that's the most important knowledge I have, is how to fix it. Right. But that's a whole other thing. So, so we have that. And then the fourth piece of it is, is an optional AI like Rilla cxc, something like that. Sure. So we know what's being set in the home. If a technician is struggling, we can find out if they're using keywords, key phrases in the home or if they're just simply skipping the process and doing whatever they want. And so, so, you know, those are the main, the main elements of, in my opinion, the most modern, most mature call by call and effective model. Sure. Out there. And so, yeah, I like it.

So it makes total sense. Now I have so many interesting questions because I've been around companies that do this. I've never personally worked in one. And so that's part of my disclaimer. There is and for everybody. Listen, I'm not the call by call expert. That's why I brought Kent on the show here. But at the same time, I, at least in my opinion, it feels like we have to trade something to be able to accomplish this. Because coming from the perspective of what is always doing what's the best for the homeowner is always a one knowing what our options are available in the industry, as far as the amount of potential system enhancements, iq, the different levels of equipment that are available. That's from, at least from what I've seen. Every company that introduces call by call management is now only chasing volume and a lot of those other things get kind of pushed to the wayside. So can you speak to that a little bit?

Yeah. So maybe elaborate a little bit. Do you mean like they're not proposing options on systems or they're not proposing enhancements? Is that what you're saying?

Yeah, what I've seen is in order for a call by call to work pretty well, then you've got your technicians in the field with your one. Basically we'll call it the salesperson. We're going to call things pretty lay terms here. The salesperson that's on the phone. Right.

Okay.

So at least from what I've seen from the, I don't know, maybe a couple dozen companies that I've been around across the country is no one person is taking enough time with that homeowner long enough to find out their true actual concerns, problems and then offering complete solutions to that. I can see they're stopping at maybe two stages. The highest end equipment that this company sells because it's fast and easy to install and there's gotcha down the road and. Or maybe they're not even offering the, you know, $5,000 IQ bundle, which, you know, advisor that sits with somebody a couple hours. Every bit of that would be in the package. So that's at least from what I've seen. Is that big missing piece. Are we chasing volume? Are we chasing quality to the homeowner? What. What are we after?

Gotcha.

Speak to that. Because I don't really have an answer here. I'm truly in this, this limbo of what. Where's the best place to be in that?

Yeah, okay. Well, so my process is not like that. We absolutely give all options. I'm a very big believer on giving the homeowner all of their options actually going even further than that. Because the reason we take the vital. So let's just talk H Vac. H Vac. One of the biggest things we know is most homes will fail airflow. Like their airflow. The ductwork is not set up properly for the system. Every piece of every furnace, every air handler has a maximum static pressure rating on it. And if you actually take true external static pressure tests, it will fail 80 to 90% of the time. And that's from Ashrae. That's not my opinion.

Oh, yeah. And we all know that every time we take it.

Right.

It's borderline, right?

Right, yeah, well, yeah, usually it's over, but the technician says it's borderline. That's a whole nother. That's a whole nother topic. But when it fails that vital, then we propose that diagnostic to the homeowner to pay us to figure out what we have to do to fix the airflow. So we actually go a step further. We're not just giving options on equipment. I mean, we will if we need to.

Sure.

We're actually having the customer pay us to deep dive into the root cause of maybe why this system failed or didn't last as long as it could, or setting the new system up for success so it lasts as long as it possibly can. Right.

Love it.

And so, like, what I tell people in H Vac is, well, when they stamp these things with a seer rating, do you think they put them in a 1980s home or are they in the nice, clean laboratory when they take these tests? Right, of course it's in a nice, clean laboratory. Right. It's in perfect air.

Obviously, that's why they came up with Seer 2, to kind of alleviate that some. But.

Right, right. Yeah, but even so, it's set up on perfect airflow. Right, Right. That's where they're set up. Well, you take those out of the factory, out of the laboratory, and install them in a home, and you put them in a poor airflow model. Well, they're not the sear rating that they're stamped with because they're not getting the airflow.

Right.

So we have to set these things up for success. So not only do we deep dive into, you know, giving them options, we deep dive into the root cause of maybe why this system failed and how to make sure the next one lasts longer.

Love it. Love it.

So that's how we do it. Now, listening to you, you may have another concept because there are other. There again, there's many different variations of call by call. Sometimes the person on the phone is the main salesperson and they're closing all the deals over the phone. And I know companies that have people doing 15 to 20 million as a phone closer. Right. Most of my clients and in our. In our 30 locations, there is a salesperson on site and the person will back them up to try to close it. But they're not like the actual salesperson. Sure. They're more of the backup, like, they're more the closer than the presenter, if that makes sense.

Yeah, it does. And that totally does make sense. And you're right, what I have seen is mostly this whole company is built around funneling everything to one superstar. You know, there's a handful of those across the country. And for whatever reason, this has been like my topic of the day for the last, I don't know, month is like the horrible artificial inflated numbers. And the bigger problem is a company can't scale that. What happens if that guy's sick for a week? What if he breaks his leg? Right. Sure, he's doing it from the office, but you can't advertise, hey, we went from 20 million to 800 million and overnight and everything's built around one guy doing 20 million or one guy, whatever. Right. So that's part of where I start to lose interest in call by call. Because none of that is a business model that can carry forward or build different at scale at all.

Yeah, definitely. When you're building it around one or two people. Yeah, I totally get that. That makes sense. The more call by call is, to me, it's more for the technician to set the call up for success and not trip over opportunities than it is for the larger sale. So doesn't matter the trade, plumbing, electric or H Vac, we want three people to come to the home in a perfect situation. We want the original technician, we want the, what we call field supervisor, you might call them comfort advisors, whatever it is. And then we want the installer to come out. Right. And so the technician, the original person is actually call by call, manage the most out of everything. And it's more to make sure we build trust, value. And I say the most important is urgency. Yeah. Once we build the urgency, they'll buy the diagnostic again. We don't call them that, but that's what I say. And then we're going to get that field supervisor out there and then they're going to propose the major repair replacements. And we know it needs it because the vitals failed. Right. It's not like a guess because. Because the Standard Nextar Praxis S10, whatever service rounds it, the natural, the old, what I call it, outdated system is we send a technician to a home, we hope the system's old, we hope the technician brings up replacement, we hope the homeowner wants to talk about replacement. We hope the homeowner has enough time to have a sales guy come out there. Right. We hope the sales guy can get there, we hope he sells it and we hope he doesn't cancel before the installer comes. Right, exactly. Yeah. Well, that's a lot of hopes in that process, if that's your process, which, I'm sorry, is on most, most mature companies run something similar to that. That is not scalable, repeatable. It's not because there's too many hopes in it.

Right.

With call by call management, we're forcing most of those. Not in, like, a bad way, but it's just like the vitals fail. This is an opportunity. We propose this to the homeowner. We don't ask him if he wants a salesperson. We need a field supervisor to come to run the diagnostic the customer paid for. Right. And so we're taking a lot of these hopes out. And by doing that, we are. We are. The numbers speak for themselves. We close. Our average tickets are much, much higher.

Right. So question along those lines. And a little. Little bit of granular on this. That 500 to $1,500 diagnostic that they're. That they're paying. Right. So before that, is there a fee, I mean, obviously your standard fee to come out. And then it's part two to the question that diagnostic, is that strictly for a diagnostic or does that apply towards something?

Yeah, so good question. And the answer to that is maybe depending on the owner. Right. Because I work with independent business owners. They can do whatever they want. I can just tell you what I did personally at my business is we would have a regular. We call it a travel fee.

Tell us what you did, and maybe best practice, what's recommended would be better. Yeah, let's do that way.

So we would have a regular travel charge. Now, I know the industry sometimes calls it a diagnostic fee to go out there and diagnose it.

I think everybody's tired of the weird.

Fake language at this point.

Just call it what it is.

We got rid of that because we sell diagnostics in the home, so we can't tell them it's a diagnostic fee to get somebody out there. So it'd be like a travel fee, a service fee, trip charge, wherever you want to call it.

Yeah, the basic prices.

Yeah. So it's like 89, 99. $89. Right. And so the technician would arrive for the $89. And then if it was a repair call and the system wasn't turning on, we would have like a. Like a 189 or a 289. Hey, we need to figure out why it won't turn on. And it will come with, you know, basic minor things like if it's just a wiring repair, a fuse, a trip breaker, your batteries are dead in your therm. Whatever. Yeah, like that.

All the stuff.

Yeah, yeah. And then the customer would say, okay, they would pay that. So now we're at, you know, 189 +89. Right. We're getting more than what a lot of people are already.

Right.

And then we get the system running, hopefully. Now maybe it's not heating or cooling, but at least it's up and running, hopefully. And then we take our vitals, we take our superheat subcool, our temp rise, our maximum static pressure, and we know that 80 to 90% of homes are going to fail those vitals. And so if they fail, airflow, which 89 of homes are, well, that's the root cause of why this thing probably broke down. Yes, it needs a capacitor or yes, it needs a new condenser motor, whatever it is. Of course that's obvious, we know that. But Mrs. Jones, this thing's moving half the amount of air, right? If it's moving half the amount of air, that means it's working twice as hard. If it's working twice as hard, it's going to break down twice as much. It's going to last half as long. Your energy bills could be up to twice as high as they need to be. And so the first we got to fix the airflow, Mrs. Jones, that's what we got to do. And so then we get the. But we got to figure out why. Why is the airflow failing? Right. So then we give them pre made packages that we have. All of them come with an airflow diagnostic to figure out why the airflow has failed. And then depending on the lowest one to the higher one, it comes with different things, like you know, three or four minor universal repairs, a condenser cleaning, a drain line cleaning. Right. Like they come with different things. It's up to the homeowner which one they want. If they just want to figure out the airflow, fine. If they want to basically do like a rejuvenation of the system, fine. Right, right. Some include refrigerant, some include sealant, some include dye. It just again, depends on the situation and the level that they're in.

Super intriguing. And this is such a. And thanks for pulling the, you know, kind of basically pulling the curtains to the side and revealing what's behind the, behind the magic curtain here. Because I feel like in so many cases when companies, they hear about call by call and then they think, oh, it's just somebody in the office that's micromanaging, somebody out in the field.

And it can be that way, Right. I mean it can be that, like, I can't say that it's not that because it could be in somebody's version.

Sure, sure. You know, and that's what I've seen, especially when companies try to do call by Call with their sales team when they have an actual, you know, turnover type of a model into a ca or, you know, I call project managers, and then all I hear from these project managers across the country are like, oh, my God, I have to call before I walk in, in the middle of. Walk while I'm there and tell them what's going on. And before I present anything, I got to tell them what we're good at presenting. And so the sentiment is, of course, why am I even here? Why did you even train me for any of this?

Right?

And so it's like, I've seen it done poorly so many times, it's refreshing to hear about how it's actually done properly.

And I'm not saying that doesn't happen because, you know, our whole thing is the successful people were not going to manage them that closely if they're doing a good job. But if somebody is struggling or we've had conversations of, you know, hey, Frank, choose your name, right, Frank, like we said, you have to give a minimum of three to four options every single time. Why is there only one option on your last three calls?

Sure.

That kind of person may have to post his options before he presents because we've had this talk so many times and he still doesn't do it. Right. So, like, I'm not saying that doesn't necessarily happen. It does. But I always say it's up to the technician how much we're going to micromanage them if they do the whole process. I don't need to micromanage you.

Yeah, they rock out the processing pressure. You don't even need to talk to them. Right.

Just prove that you did it and you. You won't hear a peep from me.

That's what we always say is like any. Especially in, like, in my Facebook group or just anybody we talking anywhere when the complaint is something like, oh, man, I'm getting managed too much, or, boy, that they're coming down on us for this or that, the first question is always like, well, what do your numbers look like? Are you meeting your required metrics each month? And if that's the. And then if the answer is yes, by how much? Because I'm always like, let's outplay the referee.

Right?

If you're in double overtime and you lose by two, and you're like, oh, it's a bad call, my first question is, why the hell were you even in overtime to start with? Why wasn't it a blowout?

Yeah, there you go. Right? No, totally get it. And that and that's right. And after doing this so long and helping implement this into many companies, the biggest complainers are usually not the top people. They are usually the, sorry to say it, the more stubborn older technicians that just don't want to do anything different and they want to get paid their hourly wage like they always did, to do what they always did. And those are usually the biggest complainers. And I'll tell the owners, I'm like, look at their KPIs. You can deal with the complaining or you can just give this other guy all the opportunity because he's actually doing well in following the system he's supposed to. Yeah, right. Yeah.

That's what. I had a conversation with a company. Yes. Yesterday before, and it was so interesting. They were literally telling me the same thing. They have three. The sales guy's sitting there with the owner and they have three technicians that are. So they're the turnover model. They're like, yeah. One technician, it's awesome. Every time we go out, everybody's primed and ready, and the other two technicians are these old guys that they just want to fix everything. In fact, I've. The sales guys, the project manager tell me, in fact, I've gone out and they've said, don't buy that top system. You don't need all of that. And he's like, so how do you overcome that when the technicians. Ruining the whole thing. Right, yeah, of course. I'm like, well, how long are you going to put up with two thirds of your entire service tech team completely destroying your company culture? And if that's the case, then you're only earning a third of the revenue you should be earning. But that's. I mean, they didn't pay me to tell him that. But that's always right. It's like, okay, how long are we going to put up with something before we just say, you know what, let's move towards some. This is something better, right?

Yeah. No, 100%. And I have owners tell me all the time, well, how long does it take to implement?

That was actually my next question.

When you're moving a lot of people, what's that journey? I always say, if everybody does what they're supposed to do and everybody listens to me, and everybody listens to you while you're listening to me. We should be able to get it set up in four to six months, you know, like really running well in four to six months, maybe even sooner.

Sure.

But what usually holds it back is the management or the owner, because they're not willing to hold people accountable, promote people to customer. Right. Like none of those things.

Right.

They just, they're either have an emotional connection to the guys because they've been with them a long time, or they're just scared of replacing them or whatever the case may be.

Sure.

And that usually holds things back more than anything.

Oh, I could totally see that. Especially, I mean, we get into this, we've heard so long from so many people. Well, there's a shortage in the workforce, which I've never believed. And most people that are in positions like yours, that's absolutely not true. You just have to farm them. You build people who are going to be great people.

Right.

But so this is a scarcity mindset of, oh, if I ditch this person, I can't find another one.

Right? Yeah, well, you can, you can, you can. And also with call by call, if the, you know, seasoned veterans don't like to hear this, but the original technician that goes out in this model only really needs to know how to take the vitals. That's it. And build trust, value and urgency.

Sure.

And if they can take the vials, build trust, value and urgency, sell one of these diagnostics, then I'm going to bring in somebody else who has all the knowledge and the years of experience and or sales ability or the desire to want to sell larger repair replacement items.

And this is cool. And I feel like that's the missing piece that most people that just hear about call by call, but don't really get into it or they'll try it. And the missing piece is that in between person. Because most of the time it's just that super, like, this is great. We can get an army of maintenance techs out there and they're focused on turning things over to the one guy that's going to sell the world well.

Right, right.

And of course, what I'm hearing from you, correct me if I'm wrong, is sometimes the right solution for the homeowner is the repair. And that's where guy number two verifies that and say, you know what, Maybe you don't need a new system. Maybe this is really how we can help and build some more trust here and fix that.

Well, and we run. And we run an airflow first model. So like, we'll literally talk people out of replacing their system until they fix their ductwork. It's like, there's no point, Mr. Jones, in replacing a system that's heating and cooling. Now, it may not be heating, cooling well, but there's no point in putting In a brand new system on a failing airflow. Like you got to fix the ductwork first. So let's fix the ductwork and then if you want to replace the system later, you absolutely can. But at least it's set up for success then.

Right.

And so we'll sometimes talk people out of it.

Oh, geez. Yeah. I love this philosophy because it gives much more of a longer term vision. Right. It speaks to a mature company, even no matter how old the company is. But it speaks to mature vision in work. It's funny, just yesterday there was a post in a Facebook group. My buddy, Brandon Stowe. What's up, Brandon? Give you a shout out. He was.

I know Brandon.

Yeah. So he was talking about the companies that in like this huge. In fact, he was firing shots at sales trainers in our industry. And I weighed in on it because partly he wanted my opinion. But the shots fired were teaching all these people how to sell, how to sell, how to sell, and giving no actual technical skills to back it up. And so what we end up with this is totally lopsided. Companies that are out here only caring about the immediate dollar. How fast can I grow this to a place to sell it with the highest EBITDA possible and then I'm exiting and game over and that's the end of life. Right?

Right.

But that is not good for the homeowner. That's not good for the company. They're definitely not giving anybody a successful company after you leave all of the short term things. And so what I'd mentioned was so many people have forgotten the classic book in our industry, H Vac spells wealth by Ron Smith. Right. One of the biggest things I got out of that years ago when I read it was our goal is not to get customers. Our goal is to get and keep customers. We've forgotten how to keep them.

Yeah.

This seems like how it reinforces that by building talk a little bit about now from the perspective of homeowners.

Right.

What is the sentiment with this model versus the traditional model or how are they really they feeling when we come out and you double confirm the problem? Really run the deep diagnostic, talk about that and how that conversation evolves through the stages with the people that are there.

Yeah. So it, it really, the success comes with the original person. Right. If the original person explains what's going on with the system, explains what comes and what doesn't come with the diagnostic and why another person has to come out. If they do a good job at that, it's not so painful. Having said that, a Lot of times they don't do a good job with that, and it turns in to be painful.

So, of course, it's training and that kind of thing to get them up to speed.

Right, of course. And that's why call by call is difficult to implement. And then there's other pieces. What if they have a warranty? What if they have this? What if we sold them the system and now their airflow failed that. Right. Like, there's just all these nuances. And when people try to implement call by call themselves, their technicians are asking all these questions, and the owners and the managers don't have the answers. And it looks they're not confident in it. The whole thing falls apart. We all revert back to what we did.

Yeah, let's just scrap it and go.

Back to where we're making money. Let's find it. Yeah. I don't know how to do this. I'm just going to go back to what we did. Right. And so. But if you have somebody like me, I can help walk through everybody, through all those. Those issues that come up.

Sure, sure.

But. But the point is, to answer your question is it's different every time. Every customer is different. Every technician who's with every customer is different. And we know that. And so when we have our script of the field supervisor arriving, one of the questions they asked, one of the first questions they asked right at the front door is, do you understand why I'm here today?

Oh, that's important. Right.

And they'll get everything from, I didn't know you were coming, like, literally to, yeah, you're here because our system failed and our airflow is 2 inches of water column over when it's supposed like, the perfect answer. Right. And everything in between. And so when the field supervisors arrive, we train them to be like, you're the manager. Like, you should walk, talk, and act with confidence that you're the. You're quality control. You're the manager. And to answer your question, one of the key phrases we tell homeowners is we're the only company in the area that gives that internal second opinion.

Ooh, I like that.

That's why I'm here today. Right. It's not that the other person is incompetent. It's not that they're a young kid and don't know what they're doing. It's when we see failures of this size, we want to do an internal second opinion. We only want to sell you stuff you actually need.

Right. I love that.

You see that gets rid Of a lot of things. Yeah, absolutely. Right. And it does. Right. And to your point, maybe it doesn't need replacement. Maybe we just need to fix it and fix the airflow. And by the way, owners that are listening and you're like, oh, my God, you're talking people out of replacement. There's a 70% gross margin in duct work, and there's usually about a.

There should be.

There should be. And there's usually about a 50% gross margin in equipment. So you're still making actually better money. Yeah. The tickets might not be as high, but you're making better money. And then if you can combine the two, you get both, and you get a 60% gross margin, which is statistically higher than most people are getting.

Yeah, absolutely. Blended margins are everything. It's one of the things I train. It's like, right, let's not mess with our heating and air system. We're going to play with all of these other things that we can. That we can play with.

Right. Because everybody wants to sell boxes, right? Costco, Home Depot, Amazon, every competitor in the area, they all want to sell boxes. Well, you know, nowadays I could go into any market. I could probably get 20 to 50 companies to come to my house that all have wrap trucks, that all have extended warranties, that all have service types. They all got the same thing. Well, what makes me different, right? Everybody else is the same. Yeah. Their name might be different. Their mascot might be different. Even now that dang near every company's on service titan, their estimates look the same. Right?

Oh, my gosh, that's so funny that you're talking about this. This is literally one of my main. Like, oh, geez. I can't even explain how important this is in what I've been training for the last two years is like, in a world where everybody's doing the same, nobody's special anymore. One of the things that I've. There's also been another soapbox of mine is if you think that a maintenance plan is going to fence your customers, and you're wrong, because everybody has them now. Everybody has your customers in is trust. And that so insanely exceptional service. Like the Chick Fil A experience. Right. Or we've ordered from doordash. The number of times they ping me to let me know my food's been picked up and it's on the way and they're waiting and. But we expect that level of attention to detail and service. All we got to do is step outside of our industry, and it's everywhere. And then people Wonder why companies that do even a tenth of that in our industry completely explode. Because people are begging for this and not getting it. You caught me monologuing.

Oh, that's great. No, no, no, I think you're 100% correct. I mean, when Jim Abrams started one hour heating and air conditioning, he was like the king of start. The starting, but one of the first to start club memberships. He brought. He brought third party financing. That wasn't a thing. Extended warranties weren't a thing. Wrapped trucks weren't a thing. Uniform technicians wearing white shirt uniforms weren't a thing. Like these were all brand new. That's what he did to be different. Well, fast forward almost 30 years later. We're all doing the same things, but everybody in our market is also doing the same things. Right, Exactly.

You know, it's fun that you mentioned that too. It's. Everything is coming in a circle. I was having a convers. It might have been even in one of the podcasts I recorded the last couple days. And this exact Jim Abrams was mentioned for every bit of this. But we were talking about how they grew so fast in a completely brand new market. And the one piece that you didn't mention is they did it door to door.

Yes.

Service agreements. Door to door to door over a market. Because I have a huge push right now for door to door. I've got some coaching programs. We're helping companies establish door to door teams.

I love it.

That is the lowest. Earlier you were mentioning the cost of new client acquisition. 6, 7, 8, $900.

Right.

Well, how about we get qualified leads for less than $100? Qualified appointments appointment for less than $100. Right?

Yeah. Oh, I agree. Yeah. If you can sell maintenance agreements or tune up store to door and get your foot in there. It is time consuming. It's not fun, but it does work.

It's the highest ROI we could come up with. Right? Yeah, the cool part, and I love this model. It's really interesting because as a company, I'm in a constant evolution. Right. I'm not the training company that's going to master something and then train the exact same thing for 15 or 20 years. Like some of the other guys are out there. Nothing. I love everybody out there. Don't hear what I'm not saying.

I understand.

But at the same time, there's this constant evolution of how people buy and how they place their trust in the people they're buying from. That's why the move for video testimonies versus just written reviews. All those kind of things. So I love this because. So let's, let's dive in a little more into this trust factor with a homeowner.

Yeah.

Because you've been around obviously long enough in a lot of different aspects of the trades. Now, at the end of the day, that's really the only word that matters is trust. Do they trust us implicitly? Right, right. One of the closes, one of the different types of different ways to close is like, hey, we don't have the luxury of working together for 10 years and having four or five projects, but if we had and they all worked correctly and they were all priced right, we wouldn't even be having this conversation now to get three bids or we would just be deciding what we're doing. Right.

Right.

And the homeowners always agree to that. So we know trust is the main thing. So dive in on that a little bit. And actually kind of a part two to that. I'd love for you to cover what happens to a company's culture once that transition starts to happen and everybody really starts to hit on the right cylinders and the company starts to grow. What happens to the energy and the culture and the, the, in the urgency within the company? Not even creating urgency out there, but inside.

Sure. Yeah. Well, I think I always mention this, that, you know, Covid shook everything up as we know. That's obvious. And the other funny thing I want to bring about, Jim Abrams is they did that all. They built that before the Internet. Like I can't even imagine running a franchise in all these locations with no cloud based software, with no Internet. It was all done through fax machines and on site, you know, management. But anyway, that's a whole, that's a whole nother thing.

Yeah, that's like legend status right there.

Unbelievable. And I know Terry Nicholson and I've had conversations with him, he helped build it. But he so trust. Yeah. So it. What happened since COVID is your. Your business today should have. Should be charging double, if not more than double of what you did five years ago during. Four to five years ago during COVID So with inflation, we've now have to charge double. Double what we did four to five years ago. Right. So that's one thing. So we used to cut like on a maintenance, you know, tune up. Let's say we go on a tune up. And I know I'm harping on H Vac here, but that's most, that's most.

Of the vertical here with this podcast.

Who cares about us stupid electricians? We'll just. I. Just kidding.

Plumbers, electricians, garage door guys. Yeah, somebody messaged me that sells, like, California closets one time and lighting.

Oh, yeah. And so everybody listens to everybody. It's all the same. It's just different. Just different things. But the point is that our prices have doubled or more than doubled, that they did that now. They thought we were expensive then. Right. So if we sold a UV bulb at $600, then, now it's $1,200 for a UV. Right. And so that's one side of the coin. Not only is the economy down, inflation is high, people are unstable about the government, and I think now the elections are over, I think it's a little better, but people are still a little upset or distraught, I should say, not confident. Our prices are double. Right. And then here's the other thing I think that's changed since COVID is how people are being pressured to buy things a lot more than they used to. Like, you can't even go to the gas station now with them wanting to sell you cookies or a car wash package or a club perks, club membership or whatever. Right? That never happened four or five years ago. I don't remember ever going to a gas station. They're trying to upsell me things, you know, like, it's your gas station.

Yeah. To pay for your gas. It's like, no. On, like, three different.

Yeah. Do you want a car wash? Do you want to, you know, all this stuff? And so. And so I think when we go on a service call, like, especially plumbing and electric, when we do, like, our complimentary 15, 20, 30 point safety inspection, right. People would think we were doing that because we cared about them. We were doing it for a service, and it wasn't. And we all knew it was to get extra sales, but it was also to help the client. I think now a lot more are thinking you're just doing this to get more money out of me because they're being sold so much stuff, and the prices are double than what they were four or five years ago. Right.

And if they're.

And that builds up trust.

Every time you're here, you try to sell me something.

There you go, right, Man. Every time you guys are coming, right, you try to sell me something. And to your point, when the. When that phrase comes up, when our field supervisor arrives, his response is supposed to be, well, that's exactly why I'm here. We don't want to nickel and dime you. We want to figure out the root cause. Like, I don't think we figured out the root Cause Right. So I just thought that was funny that you brought that up, because that's very common. People say it's funny.

I'm about to do an episode on the three T's.

There you go. And so I think that really changed with all that stuff. And so instead of telling the customer your opinion, you should change it because a new one's going to be more efficient. You should put in a water softener so your water is better. You should change your panel because it's old. People don't want to hear that anymore. I don't want your opinion. You need to do better than that. And so that's why we check the vitals, like the doctor's office every time you go to the doctor, they check the same vitals every time. Doesn't matter why you're there. They check them every time. And they don't ask. They tell you, we're gonna check your vitals, what we're doing. And then if those vitals fail, they send you to a specialist and they run more tests and they charge you for those tests. So we do the exact same thing. Your vitals fail. We're gonna prove to you your vitals fail. So, like H Vac, my meter is telling us that you're running at 0.75 inches of water column static, and your System's rated at 0.5 max. That tells us your system's working 50% harder than it needs to. Right? It's not my opinion. There's my meter, there's the nameplate. I'm literally going to circle it with a Sharpie and point a flashlight on it so they can see. See it.

Right?

It's not my opinion. So once we get the customer to understand that the system is broken or more broken than they thought it was, now they trust you because you're not making it up. It's factual. In your opinion Means nothing.

Love it.

Then they purchase the diagnostic from you, and now they have skin in the game, which proves they trust you, by the way. And because you've built urgency, that they need to figure this out. And once you have trust, value, urgency, and a diagnostic sold, you basically took your competition out at the knees. They don't exist anymore.

Love it.

Love it.

And this is cool. This is really, really cool. It's really fun, too, because it lines up with what I've been training and saying, and it's great. Confirmation is people don't buy from the pain points and the logic anymore. People are not avoiding pain for the most part, when they're making these purchases and marry that together with people will always pay more for what they want than what they need. And so now we're looking. What I've really been emphasizing is and really the foundation of most of close it now is help them see the immediate difference that their life is going to experience and paint that picture. Because I don't care what time of year it is, if it's shoulder months or spring or fall or whenever. If I know without a shadow of a doubt that my 12 year old daughter's room, she's not going to be sweating at night now and not have a fan on her face and her ceiling fan. And by extension she's going to have a better, easier morning and do better in school and better in her theater because she sleeps better, because I spent money to fix her temperature in her room. I don't care what time of year it is.

Right.

That's the urgency difference versus well, this is broken. And if you fix it, it's going to fix the airflow. So now these metrics will be right. Well, yeah, but why do I care?

Right. Tying it back to the benefit. Yeah. What's the benefit?

But they have to see that that's truly causing. Because their problem is the rim is too hot. The problem is not the fact that this ductwork was disconnected, so to speak.

Exactly. Yeah.

I love this so much because it just reinforces all of this. But it really helps to marry it all together at the same time.

Yeah, no, absolutely. And what does this do? So like when I start working with a company, most companies on the lower end are between 800 and maybe $1000 average ticket. Blended between everything. The medium companies are maybe 1000 to 1200. The really good companies are 1200 to 1400. And when we're done with implementation, again, assuming they follow everything I say, they do everything I say and they manage their technicians and they do all that, we usually can get a $2,000 minimum average ticket. So I can usually. And the worst ones, the ultimate worst ones are maybe 15 to 1600. So usually I can increase sales 50 to 100% without spending any more money on marketing, without hiring any more people or any additional number of people anyway, maybe new people without booking more calls, without adding any more overhead. Now you may need more install crews because you're selling more stuff. Sure. But other than that, everybody wants that problem. Assuming you're priced right, that's a good problem. Yeah.

One more question then because I see that and hope you're good on time here.

No, I'm Good. Yeah. Yeah.

So in transitioning a company to more of this model and I could see different existing models transitioning a little simpler, a little easier. So I guess another two part question, that's the theme of the day. Sounds like then transitioning a company that's already mostly text, or say mostly selling text, into a call by call model, say, that doesn't have your typical comfort advisor project manager, that seems to be a lot easier transition than maybe a company that's set up on a, you know, a sales model where they're doing flips to, you know, straight salespeople and.

So like a selling tech model you mean? Or.

Yeah, so you've got your selling tech model and then. But then you've got your traditional service technician turning things over to a company turnover model. Yes, right, right, the selling tech model. This seems to be kind of an easy no brainer in this transition. Am I right in kind of assuming?

Yes.

So with the other model though.

Yeah. Well, what do we do? I'll speak to that. But yes and no. Yes.

So get us there, walk us into it. Starting with the selling tech model.

So the, the selling tech, the, the.

The number one problem, the reason I'm asking too is I want the people that are considering this, but are hesitant for a couple of these reasons to maybe get talked off the ledge on a little bit of this. And for everybody listening, I'm not saying do this or don't do this. We're bringing you another option of a way to run your own business. Right. So it's another tool in the toolbox.

Exactly.

But talk us through that journey, that transition between those two models and how they can transition and then what the heck do we do with all the comfort advisors then?

Right, right. So the thing is, when people run selling technicians, and I know this well because I used to do it, you're in. Terry Nicholson actually opened my eyes up to this. He's like, the problem with selling technicians is you don't know when it's an opportunity or not. So how do you really know how good they are or not? Right. Because if you're going to a house and yeah, this certain person might be your top seller, but that doesn't mean they're tripping over a ton of opportunities that you don't know about. And that's what also call by call management does. It reveals the opportunities. So you know when it's an opportunity call or not an opportunity call and then you can actually track it. So my advice is if you're, if you're doing a tech. If you're doing a selling technician model, whether you do call by call, manage or not, in start implementing what we call double dispatching. So when you find out that it's an opportunity and they're going to present major repair replacement, you send that, you dispatch them a whole new job. So you can track them completely separately. Are you a good technician or are you a good field supervisor? Which one are you? Right. And so first of all, we have to know if they have the opportunities or not. And then we double dispatch them. So in a sense they are the comfort advisor. They're just, they're just doing two positions. Right. They have to run the first model, take their imaginary hat off, put their imaginary new hat on, and then run the other model. Right. But that usually doesn't happen. What happens is technicians selling technicians walk in. Yeah, it's broken. Yeah. I mean I could probably fix it for 800 bucks, but this thing's getting pretty old. I could put in a whole new system for X amount of dollars a month and you get a 10 year warranty.

Right.

And that's how they sell a system. Right. But very few options, if any. We didn't dive into the ductwork. We didn't even give them options.

Unicorns that, you know, build it up. Right?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so, and so as long as that, you can run the same thing with a selling technician model. They're doing the same thing. It's just one person's doing two positions. That's all. And then on the other side of the coin, I really like the flip model. Because if there's a selling technician that truly is that good at selling and we track it and we know it, we don't want him running straight up calls. We want to only feed him or her the best, most qualified calls we have. Why would we want to send them out to a house where possibly the nanny is there and can't make a decision? Why would we want to sell them to a house with a for sale sign in the yard?

Exactly.

Why would we want to send them to those homes? He's our best guy. Let's give him the qualified leads that these other people are farming for us all day long. So. And in every company there is one top producer. He, he or she may only have a 1% closing rate different. But they're still the top person. Which means they should be getting all the qualified leads because they're the Michael Jordan of your team.

Yeah. They've earned it. Right?

Yeah.

So, so let's let's talk about what transitioning a company that uses. We'll take a. I'm just thinking of a generic company. Say they're $30 million a year. They've got 16, 18 techs and 10 people in the sales team. Right. How would you transition that? So the bigger pick that size just for the sheer number of advisors that are there and what. What do we do with them? Because that. Yeah, that's the biggest. One of the biggest questions I get is, hey, we're kind of thinking about this, but what do we do? All these extra people that don't fit this model so much. Right.

The bigger the company, the harder it is to implement, period. The best companies to implement are seven to eight people, you know, field people. But when you get into those 10, 20, 30, you know, employees, trucks running around, whatever type of thing, it gets more difficult if there's a. If I haven't worked with a company of that size, me personally, other than the one I've built. But.

Well, let's go down a little bit. I mean, it's really the question. The question is kind of the same. It's just add zeros if it scales.

But what I would do is I would take. Okay, who do you think your top person is? Because I promise you, most people truly don't know. They go by whoever sells the most. And that's not always true.

Right.

I would say let's take that person and let's build two technicians below them and just start feeding that one person running this system. Once we start seeing this working and we start moving with this, then we can add another one. Another one, another one. Because trying to change everybody might be difficult. Sure.

No, I could totally see that.

That's probably how I would. I would go.

So kind of like, interesting, though. So it sounds like then instead of just. I'm really, really starting to dig this because instead of the time delay of the technicians there, call the office, dispatch somebody else. The travel time, the booking time, basically, it means that that CA or project manager is now this. These are the hours that you are immediately available. This technician's there sometimes maybe. Do they even go with them two at a time? Or is it more Sometimes. Sometimes.

That model, we call that like a power flip or a force flip. And we'll have. Because we know 80 to 90% homes fail airflow. The odds are on our side, especially.

If you know, the specific neighborhoods or those kind of things anyway.

Right? Yeah. Yeah. And so we might have the field supervisor park a block down the road around the corner. We know within 30 minutes of arrival we should have our vitals so we know if the system's failing within 30 minutes. And once the system fails, if the customer doesn't want to buy a diagnostic we'll probably give it away complimentary because our field supervisor is a block down the road.

Sure.

And so we'll make sure that him or her gets into the home regardless. But what usually happens in real life sounds good on paper that the field supervisor has an open day. Right?

Yeah.

But in real life what happens is the evening before there's a tech out till 5, 6 o' clock at night that needs a field supervisor and then we get them out there the next day. Right. So like it's usually not as smooth as we would like it to be where the field supervisor is just always available. Right.

Instant.

Yeah.

Have it enough to have a rotation where somebody's at evening on call and immediately.

Well then you have on call and then you can start getting picked. Well we're not going to send field supervisors out unless a diagnostic is sold or we get more desperate. We're just going to send them out every time and we're going to give it away complimentary if we have to.

Well that's a. Now you have a new lever that's never been there before. You can call it for business and.

That'S your call by call manager and your sales manager. And because they have visibility to everything going on, they turns their dispatch board into a chessboard. Now we're going to move our pieces to win the day every single day instead of set it and forget it. The board.

I love this so much. So this has been very insightful.

Good.

Thank you. It's time to land the plane. Or we could just keep going.

We could probably talk for a long time.

So tell us. So within your organization of course you're you know with on your platform that you're training this. Do you coach and train this outside of Yalls platform? Is that. Is there a way that people can reach out to you to get some contact and what's that look like?

Yeah. So the platform is a totally separate thing from what I do. I just learn a lot and see a lot because we do a half a billion dollars in sales. So like we can test things and we know things that happen over there. But yeah, I do consulting. I only work with 10 companies at a time so sometimes I have room. Sometimes I have to put you on a waiting list but you can email me is probably the best which is KB with a B O L L5096mail.com I'm Kent Boll on Facebook. K, E, N, T, B, O, L L. And there's two of them. There's my personal and there's my coaching one. Doesn't matter. You get to me either way.

Perfect.

And I'd be happy to set up a call just to see what you do, what you're looking to do. And again, electrical, plumbing, H VAC and garage doors. I've created this process for all four of those trades.

Love it. Love it. So, and of course, are you in the face in my Facebook group? In the close it now group now. If you're not, I'll make you an invite.

But yeah, send me an invite if I'm not. So it seems like I've been, I've been getting kicked out of a lot of groups because people keep asking me questions and I think the groups want to sell their own coaching stuff. So they kick me out. But of course, go ahead.

Well, I'll tell you what.

We're.

We're in. I love to support everyone. There's. There is so many people that need help. There could multiply every single one of us by 10.

I know, I know people. I agree 100%.

And I love having different voices and different perspectives because, you know, my message might not relate to some people and yours might, or somebody else's.

Vice versa. Right.

It's great.

So, absolutely.

Yeah. So you definitely invited. I'll make sure everybody listening. I'll make sure Kent's in the, in the Facebook group. When we put, when we launch this podcast, it's actually used. So we're recording November 20, 2024. It's going to go up within, probably within this next week or so. So when, when this episode does launch, everybody, I'll make sure to get Kent's contact information in the show notes and then we'll put a post up and make sure he's tagged. So if you want to reach out to him, ask more questions, find out more about call by call coaching and that kind of thing, reach out to Kent Bull and he is your resident expert in all things call by call. And so it's been great connection with you and any, any parting words or if you were, if you were recommended to a company, like, what's one actual item they can start doing right now to kind of see if that's even something they want to think about.

I would be looking at your average tickets. I mean, if your, if your average tickets are 800 to, or even 1000 to 1200, just know that there are people doing double or more than double than that. And I know it's possible. My electrical company, we were doing $2,000 average tickets back in 2014 and there are still people not hitting that today. And our prices have probably tripled since then.

That'd be five or six for you guys now.

Yeah, right. And so I know it's possible. Again, I like your words. The right levers, you have the trucks, you have the people, you have the calls. You just need to pull the right levers and we can get this thing rocking and rolling better than it ever did before.

I love it. Well, thank you for that and everybody that's been hanging out this long, thank you for sticking around. One thing that I would ask is reviews. Reviews are everything for all of your companies. Live and die by mine does too. So I have an offer for you. If you will leave me a five star review and I read your review online or on a podcast, then I want to give you a coaching call. And so it's a. Yeah, it's normally for everybody, it's a, you know, about a thousand bucks for a one hour coaching session. And we are doing those at Doodle for reviews right now. So. But basically because we love everybody, want to help as many as people as possible and this time of year it's nice to get a little bit extra help and who didn't need more reviews? So we love it. So everybody leave me a review. Go to Google, go to Facebook, go to Apple, podcasts, anywhere You Listen and YouTube. Make sure to check out the new YouTube channel, like subscribe Daily. We're uploading a video into YouTube so we're creating a big following in there. And everybody else last announcement is Boston, April 29th 30th and May 1st is going to be Boston, Massachusetts. The close it now event is called Relentless, that we are naming it Relentless because it's what we have to be in this market. It has to be such a transformation. So it's relentless. The ultimate sales transformation. We have to start doing things differently to get different results. Just like Kent was saying, if we continue to do the things we've always done, we're going to get what we've always got. So that's a huge part of what we're training at this three day event is how do people buy in 2025 and how to best position ourselves moving forward into this next year. A lot of these concepts and principles are going to be, you know, really, really training. It's not just a training, it's a We call it transformation because there's some things that will happen during this event, everybody, that you will not leave the same person. And so people are calling us the Tony Robbins of sale of the trades for training and we are leaning into that. And so it's wildly different than anything you've ever experienced and more transformational in the way that your numbers don't go back south once you've come to the training. And so they, they, they adjust upwards and stay there on your growth path, which is wildly different than most trainings most people go to. So in the show notes will be the eventbrite ticket link. So make sure to grab that. Send some people, send your whole team. It's going to be great. In fact, we were just mentioning some of mutual friend of ours that is going to be our boots on the ground hosting in Boston. So everybody, if you know Jonathan Neves, he is incredible business operator in Boston and he is, I'm putting this out there, I'll ask him, make sure it's okay. But we might even get him to speak a little bit at the event also. So that's the last announcement for the day. Thanks for sticking around, everybody. Thanks, Kent. It has been incredible and I am excited to see where this goes and how it changes the face of our industry. It's what's happening now. It's not the future thing. It is the now thing. And everybody, if you, you know, it's just like dinosaurs, if you don't adapt to change, then you better get used to extinction. That's truly what's happening. And keep doing the things the old way. You're going to get the old. All right, everybody, until next time, go be someone worth buying from.

You've been listening to the Close it now podcast. Our passion is to dive head first into the transformative movement that's reshaping the very foundation of H Vac and home improvement. And at the same time covering fitness, nutrition, relationships and personal growth, proving that we can indeed have it all. We hope you've enjoyed the show. If you did, make sure to like, rate and review. We'll be back soon, but in the meantime, find the website@closeitnow.net find us on Instagram herealcloseitnow and on Facebook closeitnow. See you next time.