Greetings, rabble rousers. My name is Jess McLean. Welcome to Blueprints for Disruption, a weekly

discussion dedicated to amplifying activism across Turtle Island. Together, we will examine

tactics, explore motivations, and celebrate successes in disrupting the status quo. In

this episode of Blueprints of Disruption, we're lucky to sit down with two members of the Palestinian

youth movement. Laura and Mo join us to discuss just what the fight for return and liberation

look like. particularly for the members of the Palestinian diaspora here in Canada. We explore

just what fuels their fire, because although we know most people support their cause and

recognize the oppressive situation in Palestine under Israeli apartheid, it's still a contentious

battle they have on their hands. The resistance to a free Palestine can be fierce and a political

hot potato in Canadian politics. I ask them how they navigate all that. We'll also get

into the importance of solidarity networks to the Palestinian movement and recognizing the

parallels that exist in various fights across the global South. Here is Return and Liberation

with the Palestinian Youth Movement. Welcome, friends. The first thing, as always, I'm going

to ask you to please introduce yourself to our audience. Laura, I'm going to start with you.

Yes, definitely. Thank you so much, Jess, for having us on the podcast. My name is Laura.

I'm a... part of the Palestinian youth movement here in Montreal. I was also part of the student

movement back when I was in McGill, working with Solidarity for Palestinian Human Rights.

And now I've been in the QIM or the Palestinian Youth Movement for a couple of years. Thank

you. Mo, it's nice to see you again. Introduce yourself, please, so everyone knows you. Thank

you, Jessa, and thank you for having us on the podcast. My name is Mo Alqasim. I'm a member

of the Palestinian Youth Movement based in Toronto. And I'm glad to be on this show. Thanks for

coming. It's definitely been a topic we've wanted to cover here on Blueprints of Disruption.

And I particularly asked Mo who he thinks I should talk to in terms of covering the Palestinian

movement here in Canada specifically. And so. It's the Palestinian youth movement that Mo,

I guess, you're most involved with now. I know you've done other work in terms of solidarity

work for Palestine. We don't need to mention all of the groups, but what is it about the

Palestinian youth movement in particular that has your focus now? I think what's unique about

the Palestinian youth movement is the fact that we're grassroots. completely. We're independent

as an organization and we are focused and centered within the Palestinian and Arab communities.

And that tends to be our priority in terms of organizing and mobilizing. We see ourselves

as a main player in terms of Palestinian national liberation and that we have a... vital role

within our community and within our movement. Laura, do you feel the same? And why do you

think you guys are so pivotal in that fight? Like what makes it unique? Yeah, I think first

of all, the youth are the most important sector of our community. They are the newest generation.

They're the people that are gonna hold a fight and the struggle moving forward. And so focusing

on the youth. specifically organizing them, developing them at a young age, and reengaging

their role in the larger struggle for national liberation is very important. We also I also

think that the reason that the Palestinian movement is so important is that we don't really see

ourselves in solidarity with Palestinians, as much as we see ourselves like young Palestinians

and Arabs, part of the struggle. You know, a lot of us have families who are either there

or in refugee camps. So we see this as a way more holistic struggle that we are part of.

Thank you for correcting me there. That's my perspective as an ally, I think coming through

and not even beginning to understand that lived experience that you folks have or that emotional

tie. A lot of us work on campaigns. issue-based campaigns, but I don't think any of them have

ever been as personal for me as they likely are for the diaspora of Palestinian folks,

which is numbers around seven million Palestinians that do not live or cannot live in Palestine.

So yeah, that I thank you again for kind of pointing that out because I think that's important.

I think that is in part, I don't want to put words in your mouth, but just from my experience

of working with Palestinian activists, the drive is something else. It's something very internal.

It's necessitated by life and death, like you say, like your family members. I wonder, is

that a big driver? Is that how you manage to do so much? Like looking at the Palestinian

Youth Movement website and the annual report from 2021 lists the amount of activities and

campaigns that you folks have worked on, cultural, political, local, global. And you do that all

without paid staff. Obviously money doesn't drive everything, but that is a lot of work

for volunteers who likely already have jobs and families and other struggles in life. How

do you guys manage to do so much? I guess it's the commitment and discipline of our membership

and our base. As you mentioned, we don't have any paid staff. None of our members get any

sort of compensation for the work that we do. But there is a drive for us to continue organizing

for Palestinian national liberation. And that's something that can be attributed to how dear

and how close the cause is to us and how determined we are to see our liberation. You know, you

don't get to the point in life where you're organizing 24-7 essentially for a national

liberation cause unless you completely believe in it and you're completely determined on it.

Just to add onto what Mo said, I think part of it is the importance of framing the Palestinian

national liberation question and where it stands today. I think a lot of the youth that organized

with us came into what we call a post-Oslo world, where essentially a lot of the The height of

the Palestinian resistance was at its low because the peace process had just happened, quote

unquote, peace process had just happened. And all these Palestinian institutions, which were

part of the Palestinian Liberation Organization, were destroyed in a lot of ways. And the general

union for Palestinian students, all the different unions for engineers, for doctors. for women

that were all over the world were essentially destroyed. And so we came to a world where

all of that was destroyed, but we were born into a history where all of that existed, was

alive, and there was resistance all around, not just in Palestine, but in all of the refugee

camps and in the surrounding Arab countries. And I think that's the drive. The drive is

to bring that back and to seek the justice of a full national liberation. that is not just

based on the human rights of the Palestinians that live there, but rather the question of

the refugees, the question of the prisoners that are in prisons, Zionist prisons that are

in consistent contact with the occupier, and their worst form of oppression in prisons.

And so I think all of that really pushes the youth to kind of regain their role and rebuild

what was lost in that process. Both of you have mentioned liberation in talking about your

work. And a lot of the messaging in the Palestinian youth movement refers to a return. What does

liberation look like to you, Laura? Yeah, that's a very good question. And I think because we're

always very, we're so in the struggle, the daily struggle, it's hard to imagine, you know, what

a free or liberated Palestine is. But the Palestinian youth movement always says until return and

liberation. That's kind of our motto, if you will. And it's because... The question of the

refugees is sometimes lost in the question of national liberation, and we see it's one of

the most important points. If our refugees can't come back, then we have lost a big part of

our liberation. And liberation doesn't happen without the return of the refugees. But also,

we believe in the liberation of full historic Palestine from the river to the sea. We believe

in the liberation of all of our prisoners, which I believe are around 4,500. plus right now

in Zionist prisons, many of which are only under administrative detention, which means that

they have not gone through any kind of trial. They are just in prison on some further notice.

And so that's what we mean by liberation. We believe in a one democratic Palestinian state

where everyone is equal and has their full rights.

Is that what you're working towards? Is that the larger goal? That is what we're working

towards, everything that Laura said. What are some short-term goals of the Palestinian youth

movement? How are you getting there step by step? I know it seems like very urgent, like

that's something that needs to be done now, but clearly you're doing a lot of work that

isn't inherently political. Or is it? You know, a lot of the work you do is cultural, but is

the cultural political when... You're trying to be erased? I mean, our main objective essentially

doesn't change. Our main objective is to always mobilize our community across all different

sectors in support of our national liberation. And you mentioned 7 million or 7 million plus

Palestinian refugees who can't return. We have a large number of them in North America or

across North America. And so. We see Palestinians and Arabs as main stakeholders, and as main

stakeholders, we need to be at the forefront of our struggle in exile or in the diaspora.

Some of the different things that we work on could include anti-militarization campaigns

or anti-surveillance campaigns. In the era that we live in or that some of us were born into,

Palestinian Arab communities are some of the most heavily surveilled communities. Activists

and even regular community members are amongst the most targeted in terms of state surveillance

or even at times incarceration or repercussions for political dissent. We also see a role in

the West or in North America in particular as really halting or stopping the sale of weapons.

or the sale of arms to the Israeli state or the Zionist state. North America in particular

is very invested in the arming of Israel. And we see that as a main objective of ours to

hold that and to ensure that collaboration between the Western states and the Zionist state has

ceased. We also work on supporting the different sectors of our movement, so supporting communities

who come from the global south as well, who have liberation struggles. we see it as part

of our struggle to support them and to show up for them. The Filipino people have a very

active struggle for democracy and for liberation in the Philippines, and we consistently work

with them. We see our liberation and our faiths as tied to one another. The student movement

and the youth sector is extremely vital for us. The Palestinian National Liberation Movement

has had a very active student wing throughout and maintaining that is crucial for our national

liberation. But I'll stop there because I could ramble on for ages about the work that we do.

You hit on a few things that I definitely wanted to ask you about. One of them is the level

of opposition. You spoke of state surveillance and extra scrutiny, possible incarceration.

I think, again, I hate to draw on my experience, but the very little time that I have spent

advocating for Palestinian rights was the most hostile in terms of counter protests or the

reactions you got publicly, privately. It was just really dipping my toes into it. I cannot

imagine what it is like being completely immersed. Yes, there are climate change deniers, but

they don't show up in those numbers. And the defamation and the level of attacks that come

at Palestinian activists is so intense. And when you have youth, I worry about them. I'm

not like trying to discourage anybody. But how do you folks... deal with that kind of combativeness

so often. Right, like I don't think I've done any actions at your, back in my days at York

University and the why you divest movement, you talked about trying to remove weapons and

that was one of the angles, right? One of the tactics used was to get universities to stop

funding weapons manufacturers in general. It wasn't directly tied, right? But it was, it

was. And even those faced severe claims of anti-Semitism because of the involvement of Palestinian youth.

How do you guys protect the youth against this or prepare them for that? Your youth yourself,

you know, how does that weigh on you constantly? That's a really good question. And honestly,

the short answer is that there's no preparation. It's practice that... You know, a lot of us

were part of the student movement and students organizing is on campuses that are predominantly

Zionist and are held together through Zionist funding. And the backlash there is very, very

strong. We saw a wave in the last, let's say, 10 years since the call for boycott, divestment

and sanction of a lot of the student movement pushing for their universities to divest. and

the PYM, part of its work is really supporting the student movement and supporting it against

the backlash that it receives. And we see this backlash consistently happening, the resolutions

would pass and then there would be huge repression that comes directly from the university, not

even, you know, Zionist forces that are explicit, but rather the university, which is Zionist,

but not so explicitly to many people. And so people start wanting to take away their funding

in order to pressure the university to take action against these student groups or the

student union, which took a stance based on the voting of many students. And so we see

that repression in a lot of ways. And I think the reason we see that repression is that we

organize in the Imperial core. And Israel is predominantly an imperialist project that is

very much protected by the United States, Canada and Europe. By funding, by training their forces,

by weapon manufacturing deals that happen consistently between Israel and the US and Canada too. And

so we know that part of struggling in the Imperial core is knowing that the repression also exists

here in different ways. But also another important thing about organizing here is that there are

many other anti-imperialist struggles which will kind of hit on. And we see ourselves as

part of these larger anti-imperialist struggles that called for the national liberation of

many other countries. but also the liberation of other people, like the Black people here

in North America, etc. So I think they kind of also help us to stay afloat and help us

find the repression. I also wanted to comment on something really quickly because you said

we work on culture, and I feel like that's a really important point that you brought up

earlier. We work on culture actually every year. We run the Dasan Ken Afani Art Scholarship.

program, which is named after Hassan Kenefani, who was a writer, but also very involved in

politics and the resistance in general. And Hassan Kenefani, although being a writer and

an artist, was assassinated by Israel. So we don't see that culture is disconnected. We

see that this is an issue of consistent ethnic cleansing by the Zionist regime of all kinds

of Palestinian life, including our culture. And so we see that this is also a fight for

existence, for the existence of the Palestinian people, for their livelihoods. And so culture

is a very important part of that. I just wanted to bring it back to that. Sorry for jumping

in here. No, I think that's important too, because when we look at the indigenous struggle here

on Turtle Island, the erasure of culture was a huge part in the attempt at genocide. And

so... Flexing that culture and reinforcing it and making sure it goes from generation to

generation Becomes an act of the political and yeah, you see that in The mix of work that

goes on with the Palestinian youth movement I'll share links obviously But I do encourage

folks to really check out the amount of work that they're doing and just like how eclectic

it is It's quite interesting summer schools So you're interested in building new leaders,

right? So I see that summer schools are part of this. This is so much work. It's very impressive.

I would like to immerse myself more in it just to experience it, but that's incredible. Do

either of you, have you attended the summer school or do either of you wanna hit on that?

I thought that was particularly interesting. I would never sign up for summer school, but

maybe if they had something like this, I would have. Can I just say, well, I only wanted to

say that summer school is the only type of school that I wouldn't mess out on, I would wake up

for. But I'll defer the answer to Laura. Yeah, so we do have a summer school. It happens once

every two years. And this year actually over 100 Palestinian and Arab youth came together

for the summer school, which is super exciting. It's been our largest ever summer school and

we had to reject some people from coming due to limitations on space and other things. So

that was super exciting. It's always different when you're organizing across cities and countries

even to kind of meet up once a year, once every two years in our case, and really have this

democratic process happen in real life. This is kind of where we do a lot of popular education,

development of leadership, but also have our democratic process happen where we elect new

leadership and also vote. on other things that we want to continue doing. So a convention

of sorts as well, is that right? Like our annual general meeting, but like a real one, not like

the ones we get in the partisan world, right? Like something that you learn from and share

within. That sounds almost like a novelty from the spaces that I come from. Mo's nodding,

he know exactly what I'm talking about. I'd like to talk a little bit, you got to... The

listeners are involved in Canadian politics, a lot of them. Some of them very probably disillusioned

with Canadian politics. What is the atmosphere currently? You know, I'm just going to folks,

the NDP have recently adopted a better position. I'll leave it to you folks if you want to kind

of develop on that. But has that been helpful to move? the discussion forward in terms of

electoral politics and the legislature and any needs that you guys have there? Or, you know,

is there movement there at all for you folks? I mean, we definitely took note and witnessed

the NDP shift its position and it's certainly welcome. Obviously a lot of organizers and

a lot of activists had to put in. countless hours of work and dedication in order to move

the party to that position. I think Jagmeet's position, for one, reflected a segment of progressive

thought across the country. Although the critical side of me would say that it came a bit too

late. But it certainly is welcome and we're glad that the party and the leadership of the

party finally came to that decision and that position. The other aspect of it is that we

can only speak to Canada, but the majority of the Canadian public is actually in support

of Palestinian liberation or... thinks that the Palestinian people are oppressed and have

their rights violated consistently. The parties have... been out of touch as far as that goes,

right? They're very out of touch with the wider Canadian public when it comes to Palestine,

as well as other issues. And there's definitely the aspect of, you know, powers and institutions

that influence the Canadian political parties as they are. But we haven't seen that massive

of a change in terms of public support, because that public support has existed for a long

time. It's just that the parties weren't willing to acknowledge it, unfortunately. The party

leadership, yeah, like you mentioned, the amount of effort. I've never seen so consistent rallying

and organized the most organized resolution pushes. always came around the Palestinian

resolution. And it took various forms based on various needs at the time, right? Whether

it was the IHRA definition or other things that had come up, but so much effort, so much effort

to simply get it heard, right? It wasn't a matter of testing it over and over again and convincing

and doing the education needed. Because like you said, the support was there. But even within

a progressive party, we saw massive efforts to simply stop that from ever getting to the

floor. Because they knew the support would be there. Why? What is it that? Because I don't

think they're out of touch mode. They've got pollsters. They pay them lots. So they know.

They're in touch. They know what we're thinking, right? They. That's why they didn't ever want

it to get to the floor. What is it that stops even, using square quotes always, people, leftist

parties to be so hesitant and to come too late perhaps, but just why was that so hard? Do

you have the answer? Maybe you don't, maybe you have theories, but no one can deny that.

There's never been a climate change thing that's ever been that hard or indigenous rights or

all these other issues that have come up. I've never seen so much resistance to simply being

heard. So I think to go back to your earlier point, I think I was being a bit too kind by

saying that they're out of touch.

Look, there's many different factors that play into it, but one of the main factors, and speaking

to the left, whatever we're considering as left, at least in this part of the globe,

I'm going to use the example of the Labour Party in the UK. The the leadership of Jeremy Corbyn

was practically under a threat of character assassination and the smearing of their political

platform.

The left has a fear of being smeared and being torred by baseless and more often than not

really. falsified and even at times over glorified charges of anti-Semitism.

The left hasn't been able to combat it properly, although there are segments of the left and

sectors within the left and the progressive stream that have pushed hard against those

three, against those TARS and SMIRs that are leveled against those of us who support Palestinian

national liberation. That's one factor to it. I mean, the other factors are definitely the

overpowered, let's say, political streams that exist across our continent. You know, we're

living in a province that is currently witnessing one of the most vicious... governments since

the Harris era. And that's the Doug Ford conservatives, right? So we're living in an atmosphere where

the left is weakened as it is and are very threatened and haven't quite developed the strategy and

the tactics to rebuttal any of the Zionist strategies as they are. You just like a light bulb kind

of went off when you said that. And I think we kind of realized that, but that's at the

root of a few of our problems, I believe. That fear of being smeared. You know, I read an

article today and it was about, you know, anti-communists within the left. And it primarily being driven

by not wanting to be painted as reds. We're reds, right? Like, um, very interesting. Thank

you for bringing that up because, yeah, I think like, yeah, that is a huge impact. I always

draw it down to courage. Perhaps it's a communications issue. I would like to say it's like, it's

courage though. I don't want it finessed. Yes, there must be methodical ways to counter the

Zionist narrative. And I'm sure like you guys have really worked on that. And there's a lot

we can learn from you folks there. But I think there's a part of me that just wants people

to say it is how it is and find people to come around. And I think... I don't think they know

what people are ready for and what people will think of certain smears. I'd rather be smeared

as an anti-Zionist or a communist than a centrist or someone defending what we see, the status

quo. So sorry for my interjection there. I just felt like it was part of that larger discussion

that we have here on the show on like what is the problem with the left sometimes, you know?

And yeah. Laura, how do you feel about the Palestinian movements within the Canadian space? Is it

being well received or are we seeing growth there? Yeah, I think I can speak for Montreal

specifically and Canada generally. I think, yes, they are very well received. I think there

is a large Palestinian and Arab community that... is the base for this movement and that continue

to push this movement forward through all the different events and actions that we do, whether

it's protests, cultural events, these things are consistently happening. And I think that,

you know, the movement comes in a lot of different ways and so people come into touch with the

movement, you know, either on their campus or and their union, you know, like around 70%

or more of Quebec unions have at some point passed a Palestine, I heard the statistic the

other day and I was really shocked that more than 70% of Quebec unions have passed a Palestine

solidarity resolution of some sort, right? That's incredible. And that's mind blowing. Yeah,

it is, it is. And so, The movement does have a base and the base is wide and it varies.

And there's a lot of solidarity groups also that, you know, work for work on the Palestinian

movement in general, or different parts of the movement. Right. You know, just here in Montreal,

we have like around four student groups at universities, other than the Palestinian youth movement,

other than the institutions that also hold. that are either Arab or Palestinian and then

some other solidarity groups like BDS Quebec, etc. And so all of these played all these different

roles in order to build the broader movement and allow us to kind of propel the narrative

and change the even the political narrative, right? Because there are two narratives, you

know, there's a narrative around apartheid which kind of limits the question of what are Palestinians

really looking for. And there's the narrative of a full national liberation question. And

those two are in a lot of ways different. And we've seen, especially after the summer of

2021, which is called the Battle of St. Helqut, where thousands of people were in the streets

in Montreal and Toronto. You know, this was actually, I've been in Montreal for 10 years,

and this was the biggest. mobilization for Palestine that I've seen. And so I think the movement

is growing. And I think the movement here also takes a lot of its pulse from the movement

back home. So when the movement back home is at its height, we see a lot of mobilization

here because we are following what's happening back home. And right now is the global week

of action for the Palestinian youth movement. Is that mostly centered on political prisoners

in Zionist prisons? So I'll speak a little bit about the specific action and other actions

that we're having this week. So there were 50 Palestinian political prisoners that were on

hunger strike. They ended their hunger strike recently and hunger strikes have long been

a tactic used by Palestinian prisoners for their freedom. And a lot of Palestinian political

prisoners have actually gained freedom this way.

The prisoners movement in general has gained a lot of its rights in Zionist jails through

its hunger strikes and its general

resistance against the different forms of repression the Zionists used against them.

what they want through their hunger strikes and their struggle. And so recently those 50

Palestinian political prisoners went on hunger strike. So we called for global wake of action,

but they recently suspended their hunger strike. But also in the Palestinian authority prisons

right now, which are in full security coordination with the Zionist regime. there are political

prisoners who are on hunger strike again. And we see the Palestinian Authority as just another

form of Zionist repression because they're in full security coordination with the Zionist

regime. They actually, a lot of the prisoners that are now in Zionist regimes were first

imprisoned by the PA and handed over to the Zionists. And so they're in full security coordination.

And that's the result of the Oslo process that I was talking about earlier. Um, and so the

global week of action is really to bring to the forefront, the issue of Palestinian political

prisoners. And the, and, and this issue varies, right? Like in, um, we have women prisoners,

we have children prisoners. Most people don't really even know that because most of our prisoners

are men. That's true, but those still exist. And, um, and the, the issue of prisoners is

not only that. They imprison men that are part of the resistance, which is also illegal as

an occupying power. But also that there's a lot of medical negligence in Israeli prisoners,

which actually causes the death of a lot of our prisoners. And so in the global week of

action, a lot of our chapters were having different actions, including popular education, films

about prisoners, or just protests. Here in Montreal and also in Toronto, we're also having an action

for George Abdullah. George Abdullah is actually Lebanese, not Palestinian, and he was a huge

part of the Lebanese and Palestinian resistance in Lebanon at the time, and is now held in

French prisons. And at some point, he was bound to be released. But there was a huge... there

was huge pressure from both French and, sorry, from American and Zionist lobbies to not release

George Abdullah, and he's been in prison for a very, very long time now. And so on the,

I think it's the 36th anniversary, 39th, I don't know, Mo, if you remember the number, 39th

anniversary of his imprisonment in French jails. And so we're having an action in solidarity

with him and we're collecting signatures for a letter that we pretend in solidarity with

him. And that also comes back to how the imperialists are a huge part of our struggle for a huge

part of the repression of our struggle for liberation. Sorry for the long answer. No, because that's

critical, because. Going back to what Mo said earlier, you know, in public opinion, and people

may not know what the solution is, and they have a general idea that Palestinians are,

I think Mo said, oppressed. But I don't think they know the extent, most of the public don't

know the extent of oppression, or the extrajudicial killings. And one thing... that we're starting

to see more of on social media in terms of Palestine is the evictions that are happening and the

demolishing of Palestinian communities. People see it, anyone can watch that and get mad.

It's someone being evicted from their home. Very visceral images, right? That come out,

thankfully, that we can witness. But... Can you help place that in the broader perspective?

You talk about neocolonialism on your website, and its need to be erased in order to reach

the goals of liberation for Palestinian people. What role do these evictions that people are

seeing play in that? What's going on there? The ethnic cleansings that we're witnessing

right now are definitely intensified. in terms of the point that our struggle is at, but it's

by no means a surprise to Palestinians or Arabs. Ethnic cleansing is a continuous process when

you're living under a colonial case or under a colonial regime, which Israel is.

The images that we see and thankfully to social media, people back home or people are consistently

showing the images and the video recordings of what's happening to them and they're spreading

them out to the world for the world to see that it's not apartheid only, although apartheid

is a part of it and it does exist. It's the fact that we live under a settler colonial

regime, and that Palestine is at the heart of an anti-imperialist struggle, and that Palestine

and the Arab region is subject to neocolonialism. Our institutions, if not subservient to Western

imperial interests, would be demolished and or targeted, right? governments, people's movements

are all under that threat. And Palestine is at the forefront of it in a sense, right? Because...

Essentially Israel is, and Laura hinted at it, Israel is a Western. intervention or a western

creation in a way at the heart of the Arab region. So it guards the interests

of those nation states and it furthers them in other aspects throughout and we see that

throughout history. the exploitation of resources, the targeting of movements and governments,

is all done in coordination between the US primarily and Israel, as well as other countries who

subscribe to that agenda. Yeah. I mean, on the topic of home demolitions, actually home demolitions

are also... a collective punishment tool that the Zionist regime uses against many of the

resistance and the combatants so that if these people are unable to be found by the Zionist

forces, then they would threaten them by demolishing their home, by imprisoning their families.

And so, you know, the Zionist regime is really... in every aspect of Palestinian life. And it's

they're not just after you because you did this or that. But everyone is in collective punishment

all of all the time. And that's because in essence, it's an expansionist project that is not limited

to, you know, where they stand right now and will continue to expand as long as they have

the military and economic power to do so, supported by the imperialists. And in terms of talking

about new colonialism, too, I mean, the Palestinian Authority is part of that project as well.

And they're one of the... You know, they're a big part of the problem through their security

coordination, through a lot of the intelligence that they provide to the Zionist regime. All

of that is part of the New Collins Project, and a lot of the normalizing Arab states who...

Although their people might not agree with the normalization, their new colonial states with

the ruling class's interests are aligned with the imperialists. Can I add on to that? So

expanding or just piggybacking? I don't know what the term is. Piggyback? Is it? English

is not my first language, on what Laura said. So the Palestinian authorities, what in traditional

Marxist terms you would call a compredore class, they're a local elite. They're not exactly

the bourgeoisie class that you would level with the Israeli bourgeoisie,

similar footing even. They're employed exactly by the Zionist colonial project. So they act

as an extension of them and the Palestinian Authority,

they do that and they secure their profit and their interest through being arms. of the Zionist

regime. So it's a totally different sector, if you will, or a different class from the

rest of Palestinian society and the Palestinian struggle. They're not considered part of our

struggle, and they're very few and elite in that sense. That seems like a very accurate

class analysis there when you described the Palestinian Authority. I think that would surprise

some of our listeners. Is that a controversial position within Palestinian activism? I wouldn't

say so. I think it's actually a very popular position. It's one that's not been discussed

frequently.

But it's definitely one that you would hear across the Palestinian community if you speak

to your average Palestinian. They don't believe in the Palestinian Authority as a leadership

or as an institution. And the Palestinian community is very knowledgeable on the history. So they

know that the Oslo, quote unquote, peace process purposefully destroyed their institutions and

national leadership. and then replaced it with a comprador class to obstacle any attempts

at reviving a national liberation movement or creating a leadership for the people. That

creates a kind of a political conundrum, right? So are your appeals then by necessity to the

international community always? Like is that... Sorry, I'm struggling here just with so many

Palestinians not living in Palestine and the power structure that exists there. Where does

this liberation come from then? How do we get those 7 million folks and all of their allies

to make a difference? Just help me here. Because I feel like the international community has

failed so far, right? That's really... I'll try my best to kind of draw an image here,

but... I mean, although the PA exists, we can see right now in Palestine that there is a

lot of different formations of popular resistance that are consistently happening. And so these

people don't really

agree with this class. and continue to do what they want. And for example, the Janine refugee

camp, which is in the West Bank, is a camp where neither the PA forces nor the Zionist forces

have been able to enter easily, right, and is completely protected. Another important part

is that Gaza is technically a form of liberated land. that is fully controlled by the Palestinians

internally, although its borders, its sea, are controlled by the Zionists, but there is consistent

resistance happening there. And so as a result of the material conditions all over Palestine,

there have been new formations that have continued to resist. And organize themselves in all the

different ways. And in Raze, there were the marches of return, where every Friday for the

longest time, thousands of people would march towards the Raze border, which is the main

point where the IOF or the Israeli occupation forces have all their, you know, apparatus.

to make sure that no one crosses that border or no movement happens there. And these were

forms of popular resistance that went on for a very long time in Gaza. And then also in

the refugee camps, there still continues to be some forms of organizing under different

banners and different movements that go up and down, I would say. It sounds like the left

anywhere, right? Like a contingency of resistance, but needing something whole. I guess that's

where you folks come in. It must be so important for you to be in touch with folks on the ground

in Palestine to identify these different struggles, amplify them, move in parallel with them and

their needs. I imagine you guys have great stories of resistance from inside the occupied territories.

And we don't have time for them all here, but I encourage folks to. to seek those out as

much as possible because it sounds so daunting, but when then Laura speaks of the different

pockets of resistance or different roles that different areas are playing and pushing back,

it seems more promising, I think, than it did to me when we started this episode. Just to

confirm what you're saying.

We're never scared that the resistance in Palestine will stop. You know, very popular Palestinian

figure, let's say, Basel Arash, said that, you know, on average still there is resistance

happening every single day in Palestine, and that has never stopped. And will never stop

until liberation. And I think that is what we've seen. And, you know, the waves come and go,

but the consistency is there. Do you drive some of your courage and motivation from hearing

those stories? I can only speak for myself, at least in this particular context, but yeah,

I definitely do. If you take a look at a Palestinian who lives under siege, who has been amputated,

who lives in extreme poverty that even by... the standards that we live in the West, it

wouldn't be acceptable or humane. Not that any form of poverty or impoverishment is ever humane.

When you look at that and you see them continuously resisting, you have to look at yourself and

really find that drive.

and you have to sort of steamroll through all the obstacles and the forms of repression that

we face here. So we see the resistance back home as an encouragement, as fuel for us to

keep going.

I'm glad you've got fuel because it's a tough road, you know, from what I've seen friends

in the movement go through. And it's even me as so removed from any of these stories, always

thought to myself, like I think I was doxed one time after doing a, all I did was martial.

All I was a martial at some. a rally at York University and I ended up getting docs and

for me it was super upsetting but the only thing that made me feel better was thinking don't

be such a baby. Like literally people are fighting for their lives in terms of this cause. A few

phone calls from Zionists on my cell phone is something you're just going to have to deal

with. But you know I can make light of it because it was just so... It wasn't something so sustained.

And I know both of you are so, and a lot of Palestinian youth are really heavily involved

in the movement. And we've already talked about why, right? I think that's obvious why. So

I'm glad that there's some fuel that lights your fire. And I always enjoy organizing with

Palestinian activists because of the joy that still exists. in the actions that I have done

despite the heavy material that we're talking about right like exile and poverty and apartheid

and the barriers and still there's always dance or song or something warm that comes from it

I can't explain it as an outsider, I suppose, but it's just something very unique that I've

only ever experienced within those circles. Because I frankly don't know how you do it.

And I think I said the same thing to the folks I was interviewing from land back, you know,

facing down OPP officers all the time and injunctions and just that's heavy. That's a lot of bombardment

mentally, sometimes physically. Right? I appreciate that you guys fight through that. I do. It

amazes me, the level of resilience in your work. I don't know if I'd be able to do it, to be

honest. So the least I can do is share how and why you do what you do so that folks can perhaps

jump in and help or do something similar. for things that matter to them. But if you could

have the folks that are listening help you out even more, what would that look like for the

Palestinian youth movement? You're probably talking about mostly settler allies, like just

demographically speaking. What's our role in helping the Canadian diaspora of Palestinians?

She's pointing at you, Mo. So there's... Thankfully, there's a role for everyone in our struggle.

Our struggle is not one that's just for Palestinians and Arabs. It's a revolutionary struggle. It's

the question of our lifetimes. And that's what Hassan Qanafani taught us, that it's a struggle

for every revolutionary who has a stake in the liberation of peoples. So if they're Palestinians

or Arabs who fall within the youth demographic, they're more touch with us and to get involved

with us, you know, if they're capable and willing. If they're members of the Arab community at

large, they can come out to our events, they can support us and show up, you know, they

can donate to us if they wish and if they're capable too,

in this era.

To our solidarity partners, you know, building your struggle is very important to us. The

existence of other people's struggles only amplifies, you know, anti-imperialism and anti-colonialism.

in a global context. So building up your own communities is also equally important to us.

Building up your institutions and organizations that quite frankly challenge both domestic

and foreign policies of the nation states that we live in, that's very crucial to the success

of people's movements. Because that's mostly what the folks listening are trying to do.

Better their unions and better their communities and break down the structures that make it

almost impossible for folks to see real change. I think your words will fall on friendly ears.

I said this before, but in the show notes, we will share as many resources as we can that

will link you back to the Palestinian youth movement. the global week of action they're

having, as well as any of the other topics that we brought up. We will try to continue this

discussion offline as well as we usually do. I want to thank you so much for coming on here,

sharing your motivations, the stories of Palestine and the struggles. I wish your job was easier.

I am glad that you are doing it though. I do appreciate it. Do you have any parting words

that you would like to share with anybody? Thank you so much, Jessa, for having us. It's honestly

been a pleasure speaking with you about this. I mean, parting words is usually, it's really

the revolutionary optimism that we all have and our strong belief in the success of our

National Liberation Project and all struggles for justice that keep us going. And I hope

that other people... also keep that energy going and all the struggles that they're working

on. And, you know, people are also always welcome to volunteer with the Palestinian youth movement,

if they would like. Thank you so much for having us, Jessa. It's been truly a pleasure and an

honor to be on this podcast. The pleasure is all mine, folks. Thank you so much. Like in

all things that we do, there is a team behind Blueprints of Disruption. I want to give a

big thank you to our producers, Santiago, Hello Quintero, and Jay Woodruff. Our show is also

made possible by the support of our listeners. So if you appreciate our content and would

like to become a Patreon, please visit us at www.patreon.com.au.

So if you know of any work that should be amplified or wanna provide feedback of our show, please

reach out to us on Twitter at BPofDisruption.