[00:00:00] Eric Goranson: It's Around the House. I wanted to talk a little about designs in the corners of a kitchen. You know, some people like me, I don't have a corner in my kitchen. I have a galley style kitchen where I've got two runs that are, you know, opposite of each other. But so many kitchens out there have an L shape or a corner or a U or something going on.

[00:00:25] Eric Goranson: And those corners can be super tough to deal with. Now, some of the things you need to look at is what makes sense. Now, you know, what's coming up to that corner is, is important. And let me get to this first when I'm starting like on a, on a sync run, for instance, um, even though there's no rules saying it has to be this way.

[00:00:50] Eric Goranson: When it comes to remodeling and renovating your home, there is a lot to know, but we've got you the House. Welcome to Around the House show. This is where we help you get the most out of [00:01:00] your home through information and education. We're joining us today. We've got a big subject. We're going to dive into here in this hour, my secrets to a great kitchen design.

[00:01:12] Eric Goranson: Now my background, Eric Goranson here. I'm a certified kitchen designer through the national kitchen, the bath association. I got that way back in 1999. So my background is kitchen about design. So we're going to talk about great kitchen design today. And if you are going to tackle this yourself, you're going to hire a contractor.

[00:01:30] Eric Goranson: This episode is for you. We're going to try to see how much we can cover in this episode here. Cause there's so much to this and I've got a lot of secrets, tips, and tricks for you today. They're going to really help you out. I think in making the decisions. On how you do this now, 1st off, you know, let's talk a little bit about the kitchen itself.

[00:01:49] Eric Goranson: And I wanted to give you a little bit of background on this. So you can put this all into perspective. 1st off, you know, the average kitchen lifespan of what they consider. You [00:02:00] know, the full life of the kitchen is about 30 years. Now, where you get that from is from a mixture of insurance companies to cabinet manufacturers, because you'll see many times that there's a lifetime limited warranty on a cabinet.

[00:02:15] Eric Goranson: That doesn't mean a hundred years from now you can collect on that lifetime warranty. The limited part says that the lifespan is 30 years. So after 30 years, it has lived its life. So no matter how great they built it, no matter how good the warranty is in many cases. 30 years is the cutoff date, which to be honest, and something that you use multiple times a day for 30 years, nothing else is going to last that long.

[00:02:41] Eric Goranson: So that's a really good average lifespan for that. Now it depends if you're hard on things and don't maintain it, that kitchen could last 10 years, seven years, or even less than that, depending on what you're doing. But that's kind of the average. So if you think about the house that you've got right now, if your [00:03:00] kitchen is over 30 years old, it's time to consider Either cleaning it up, replacing it, updating, or just a brand new remodel.

[00:03:11] Eric Goranson: So that's kind of where the basis of that is. Really though, the first thing I wanted to start talking about today is planning. Planning for that project. And really it should start out with a great kitchen designer. And that is a tough one, and I wanted to give you some background on kitchen designers.

[00:03:28] Eric Goranson: And it's depending on where you go to. Many people here in the U S go down to their big box store and they start talking to somebody down there. Cause it's ease of access. They've walked past that place. Maybe they've looked at appliances. Maybe they looked at some colors and all of a sudden they see stuff that's going on and they go, Oh, wow, cool.

[00:03:46] Eric Goranson: This is nice. Uh, well, let me talk to these people right here. Or maybe they approached you as you were kind of poking around shopping for something else. Now, the home centers can be really hit and mess. And how do I know this? Because I've worked there in the past. [00:04:00] I worked for Home Depot for about 367 days on a one year contract with them, and I worked for a company called Eagle Hardware, which was a predecessor here on the West Coast to Lowe's because Lowe's bought them out and gobbled them up, and I spent a number of years working for them.

[00:04:16] Eric Goranson: And so here's. Where that's kind of where I started out and that's where many kitchen designers start out at is they start out at the home center And the thing is is that many of the home centers a lot of times they don't just hire for that Maybe you transferred from the garden department or the lumber department and you decided you wanted to be good at it How I got into it was just that I actually transferred in I was working in the door and millwork department And I blew my knee out And when I blew my knee out, they said, Hey, why don't you take a job sitting down since you've got any CL surgery?

[00:04:48] Eric Goranson: It's going to be a while. And we don't want you running around on crutches on this polished concrete floor. And I said, you know, I love design. I took a bunch of college stuff in design and architecture. So that was an easy one for me. But many [00:05:00] times. You know, those people have come from other departments and the problem is, is these days, the home centers don't do a great job of training.

[00:05:09] Eric Goranson: You are kind of left to your own devices. And many times that training comes at the expense of the consumer because back in, you know, the 90s and 2000s. The stores spent a lot of money training their designers. They were involved in getting them certified, everything else. But the problem was, is they realized that if they're kind of meager salary range that the good ones after they got trained and they got good at it, they realized they could go make more like a lot more working out for private design firms.

[00:05:45] Eric Goranson: And for local kitchen, a bath company. So many of the good ones left and the home center said, wow, we're spending a ton on training and we're losing them. And yeah, we're not going to do that anymore to that extent. And so what happened is, is they stopped those [00:06:00] training programs and actually closed down many of those training centers that they were doing, and it was expensive because they would have regional training centers that they would send people off to.

[00:06:11] Eric Goranson: The problem is, is that they lost them. And so now many of the people. Are kind of trained, but they can maybe not make massive mistakes. But really that's where the issues are. And so home centers can be really hit and miss. There are great designers at the home centers, and there's also about an equal chance of finding someone that, you know, they've been doing it for a little bit, but they're not really good at what they do yet.

[00:06:37] Eric Goranson: And to be honest, it takes even someone that just came out of design school in college, it takes anywhere from two to four years to become a really good. Cabinetry designer for kitchen and bath. There is a lot of hit and miss. There are so many things that, um, need to happen for them to be good. Uh, they need to get some [00:07:00] experience out in the field when I would hire new designers for my businesses that I owned over the years, I would try to get them out in the field where they could go hang out with an installer for a week.

[00:07:08] Eric Goranson: So they could understand how crown molding went together, how blind corner cabinets went together, how door handing and things and all of those details like fillers and trims would go together. And it made them a better designer. The problem is, is many home centers won't let their people out in the field at all.

[00:07:27] Eric Goranson: So you've got inexperienced designers that aren't allowed to go in the house, and they're working off a drawing, and it's a real tough place because they don't know how the homeowner's operating, not like a regular designer does. And I mean a regular designer is somebody from a design firm, like a local kitchen and bath dealer, or even maybe if you've got a really good lumberyard.

[00:07:50] Eric Goranson: That is really good at this, where they come out, take a look at your house, see what's in your kitchen, understand how you cook, how you live, what your challenges are. [00:08:00] What the space challenges are and how this is going to look with the rest of the house. Anybody can slam boxes together and make something look kind of okay and make it so it can be installed.

[00:08:10] Eric Goranson: But so many times, these are issues here that those home centers miss. So, the home centers, like I said, can be hit and miss and I'm not throwing shade on them. It's just their business model and there's nothing wrong with that. They have not really decided to take kitchen and bath seriously. They want to sell the fixtures.

[00:08:28] Eric Goranson: They love selling cabinets. But many times it's the more expensive place, like we've talked about in previous episodes, but it's a more expensive place to get it. And you've got generally speaking on average. And again, there's some great stores where they've got great designers. There's other ones that.

[00:08:44] Eric Goranson: They don't have four years experience between the entire staff, but really this is where you've got to be careful with bringing in the right designer. So for me, I tend to lean on hiring from a local design firm or, you know, lumber yard that is really good with this. [00:09:00] So this is one of the things that I think it's really good on the planning side, is having the right person.

[00:09:05] Eric Goranson: And I never recommend you as a homeowner jumping on an online program, designing out your cabinets and putting them in, because guess what, even if you've remodeled two or three kitchens. You have the same experience is that brand new designer and you're going to make design mistakes, function mistakes, and you're not going to get the best project.

[00:09:24] Eric Goranson: So really hiring the right person to help you with this is the key to having a beautiful project because now you're tapping into their years and years of experience. Experience on tackle the project. We'll dive into this more just as soon as round the house returns

[00:09:50] Eric Goranson: so,

[00:09:55] Eric Goranson: so many.[00:10:00]

[00:10:10] Eric Goranson: Welcome back to the round the house show, where we help you get the most out of your home through information and education. I'm eric g we've been talking about my secrets to a great kitchen remodel and great kitchen design And this is what we're going to be talking about in this hour today of the show Now we were just talking about planning which is kind of the biggest part of this and getting the rate You know, getting the right designer out working on the project and really you have to be able to mesh with that person.

[00:10:37] Eric Goranson: And I wanted to kind of just continue on this for just a second. Your personalities need to work together and you need to have a flawless communication between the two of you. Because this is what I call the honeymoon period when you're first designing. If things are not going well and you're trying to jam that, uh, square peg in a round hole.

[00:10:57] Eric Goranson: Wait till the stress shows up when [00:11:00] something's late, something's damaged, and something like that happens. These are things you should really be careful of. So make sure that you don't have things like that going on. That communication needs to be great. If it's not... Hit pause for a second, get this figured out because I want you to make sure you've got this dialed in that personality between you two needs to work well.

[00:11:23] Eric Goranson: Now, here's the next 1 and this is something that's been controversial on social media and I've actually come to the defense of the design community before when you have a couple, no matter who it is, or 2 decision makers in this, maybe you're a single person and your parents are helping you out because it's your first home.

[00:11:42] Eric Goranson: And they're going to help foot that remodel or you and your spouse, whoever that is. Here's the thing I want you present for the design meetings. And this was something that I had a big rule with here. When I would meet with people, if I had two people that were [00:12:00] decision makers in this process, then I made sure that those people are at all the meetings and we would reschedule if something came up, because there would be so many miscommunications by not doing that.

[00:12:13] Eric Goranson: It really took the project. And put it in a high risk situation of it, not working well together. So when your designer says, I want two people there, and it's because the husband isn't at work and the wife isn't there, it isn't there because just that. It is to reduce the amount of confusion in the process.

[00:12:33] Eric Goranson: So please make sure, when you can, that all the decision makers are at every meeting, and if not, schedule the meeting to make sure that happens so everybody can be there. I have had it where I've had two different brain surgeons in a couple that could get time out of their busy surgery schedules. To make it to these meetings and in today's world, if someone's on zoom and someone's sitting there in person, it [00:13:00] doesn't matter.

[00:13:01] Eric Goranson: I just want to make sure that communication is key. So that's the big 1. so make sure that you've got that dialed in. Now, this is going to roll into the probably the next segment here as well, because this is a big 1 finding the right cabinetry. Is one of the biggest things, because this is what you're going to get stuck with for, well, like I said, the next 30 years, if it's an average kitchen lifespan.

[00:13:23] Eric Goranson: So you need to make sure that you're putting the right cabinetry in there. Now, let's get into some definitions here real quick, because this is a real key right here. And this is something that's a big takeaway. The word custom has no relation to quality. Just because you are having custom cabinets made.

[00:13:45] Eric Goranson: It could be made by a horrible craftsperson in their carport on the side of their house with 300 of the tools and a latex paintbrush, and it could be called custom. [00:14:00] So don't get hung up on the word custom. It has no bearing on quality. There are many times you can walk into a home center And buy a better cabinet and a better finish than what a custom cabinetry shop is kicking out their door every day.

[00:14:18] Eric Goranson: Sorry, custom cabinet guys. There are a lot of great ones out there and there is a lot of ones that they have not changed their technology since the 1960s and you've got a problem and here's why. So the first thing I want to address is the finish because this is one of the biggest things that you should be paying attention to.

[00:14:37] Eric Goranson: What is the finish on the outside of those cabinetry? Now, unless you're doing some European, Italian looking high gloss that you might want a lacquer for basically, if they're using a single stage lacquer, that is a no go for me. That is not a finish. That was a finish that was great 40 years ago, and that's when they put them on cars, you know, when [00:15:00] you and your neighbors would have to sit out there and literally sit there.

[00:15:04] Eric Goranson: And wax the car every Saturday. And you know, that was the best finish in its time. But as we know, technology has changed. And as car finishes got better, how many times do you see somebody out there waxing their cars on a Saturday? Not as many as he used to in the 1950s, 60s, 70s, and even 80s, because we've came up with better finishes.

[00:15:23] Eric Goranson: And the same goes to cabinetry, you know, you had your lacquer finishes, and then it went into a two part, which made a harder, more durable finish, like a two part, which is a conversion varnish is what they call, call that. So they have their regular finish and they add a hardener basically to it, and it makes it harder and it makes for a better finish.

[00:15:43] Eric Goranson: And that's what holds up, you know, lacquer really failed a lot. If you had a maple cabinets that had a clear finish and around the sink, all of a sudden the cooktop, you'd see it, big flakes of it coming off. That was that lacquer finish. And it also tended to yellow a little bit too, because [00:16:00] that's what lacquer did with UV on wood.

[00:16:02] Eric Goranson: It really tended to yellow and flake off. And so it was just a not good finish. And so now we've had different versions of conversion varnish. We've had water based finishes that used to look a little bit like plastic. But now the waterborne finishes have come a long way. They look really good. The sheens are right.

[00:16:21] Eric Goranson: Uh, things look really good and water based. And now the latest ones that you're seeing out there is a, uh, is a urethane finish that is now a spray on, uh, urethane finish, kind of, uh, basically I think it's a two part is what it is, but it's a urethane cabinet finish, and that makes for something very durable.

[00:16:40] Eric Goranson: So that's something that you want to take a look at. What type of finish on your cabinetry is key. And the problem is, is that, and this is where there is some, some big misconceptions. Oh, I had a custom shop do the finish. Well, the problem is, is those two part finishes, especially when they're a baked on finish, you [00:17:00] know, custom shops, a lot of them, especially the smaller ones can't afford to sit there and buy the machinery to do a sprayed baked on finish.

[00:17:10] Eric Goranson: They just don't. And that is why many shops still lacquer finish because they've got a couple of year warranty in the cabinets. It's going to last that long. It'll do okay. But it's not going to be as durable longterm. And so you're seeing that. So that, that lacquer finish is not as great, but then the finishes that you're seeing now from either like the, the major retailers out there or the big companies, those major companies, because they have big production, it's cost effective for them to spend, you know, half a million dollars on a flatline finishing machine, because they can sit there and move a lot more parts through there because it sprays, it finishes.

[00:17:51] Eric Goranson: In 15 minutes, you can have a dried finished part after it's kicked out the other side of the machine. It can go on the cabinet where those lacquer guys had to let [00:18:00] that part sit there for a day or so, depending on the temperature and depending on the humidity. And it would have to air dry, which took a long time.

[00:18:07] Eric Goranson: So these are some of the problems that we see with finishes out there. And one of the defining things in cabinetry as far as how it looks on the end, you can have the most beautiful cherry wood or the most beautiful Walnut, but if you've got a poor finish. It's gonna look horrible and it's kind of cost you thousands later to fix it.

[00:18:25] Eric Goranson: We come back. We're gonna talk more about cabinetry, construction, what you should pay attention to and what doesn't matter. As soon as the round,[00:19:00]

[00:19:11] Eric Goranson: welcome back to The Round the House Show. This is where we hope you get the most outta your home through Information Education. Thanks for joining me today. We've been talking about my secrets to. Great kitchen design, getting that cabinet, getting that design, getting things put together. And so far in the first segment, we were talking about really hiring the right designer.

[00:19:31] Eric Goranson: And now we've been talking about the secrets and the insider secrets to cabinetry, what they do tell you and what they don't tell you. We've been just kind of wrapping up the conversation here on finishes. On what you should be looking at and what matters when it comes to cabinetry. Now, one of my things that I really do like, and this is a hard one for painted cabinetry.

[00:19:51] Eric Goranson: Many times you'll look at painted cabinetry, for instance, and go, wow, okay, I want to, I want a primed cabinet. I'm going to have my installer put it in and I want to [00:20:00] paint it in place, which looks really good. Many.

[00:20:08] Eric Goranson: Of those things that you see out there, and I'm talking about many of the painted in place kitchens have a really poor, soft finish to them. And a soft finish is kind of almost like a latex, what you'd see painted on your walls, and that is not what you want for cabinetry. Now there's different ways to do this, and here is my recommendation, which I know is going to be a little controversial to some cabinet people out there.

[00:20:33] Eric Goranson: But I think it's the best of all worlds. What I would like to see you do is order your cabinetry where it's pre finished on all the doors, drawer fronts, and all of that. And then what you can do is come in. And if you buy the matching paint from the manufacturer. You spray this and you have somebody that knows how to spray, maybe a conversion varnish or whatever they're doing, go [00:21:00] in and spray the trims and do it that way.

[00:21:03] Eric Goranson: Now the other way that I've done it is I have either myself or my installers go in and install all the trims, and at the very end of the project, I have a furnishing furniture refinishing company or a, you know, one of the furniture rescue companies come out. And do a touch up, and they will come in, they will match that paint, and they will touch up where all those little crown molding details were, and any pin holes were, and you'll never know what happened.

[00:21:34] Eric Goranson: And these guys are so good, if you find a good one, I have had them take a cabinet door that was custom made for a project. And it had been drilled through with the wrong hole for the knob. I have had them come in, touch that up with airbrush and everything else, and you would never know that that door had been mis drilled for the hardware.

[00:21:58] Eric Goranson: And they got it so it [00:22:00] looked beautiful. And everyone was happy. So the little pin nails and stuff for the crown molding could get touched up, and it looks really good. I just don't like when they come out with the one part. You know, cabinet and trim paint and paint the whole kitchen because to me, that is something that is not going to be durable long term and it'll be okay, but it's not going to be as strong as many of these other kitchens and, uh, you know, the finishes and I think you end up having a weaker finish.

[00:22:28] Eric Goranson: Now, when you get into certain parts of the country. Depending on where you're located, this is the norm and I don't understand why it's just kind of the way the, the way that, uh, regions are in the U. S. here, where out in the Northwest here where I'm at, it is rare to see that happen. But if you get places in the Midwest to the East Coast, I tell you what, it is a way that they have been doing it for decades and I think it's a, it's not as good a finish.

[00:22:53] Eric Goranson: So it comes down to who you're finishing company is. And I want to have somebody that is a cabinet finisher and not a [00:23:00] painter coming in to do this because that quick spray, I want to make sure that those doors are finished correctly. I want to see where everything's done because this is the part that you're going to see the most.

[00:23:12] Eric Goranson: It is that beautiful finish and it's also the part that's going to get the most wear because where the handles are, where a ring catches or, uh, any of that, your fingernails. Bump the door the the your hands have acid and oils in that in your skin So when you touch the door every time that's where it's really gonna gonna be wearing And so that's why you want to have that very durable finish not something that's gonna be soft and not wear Well, can you go back and paint it again?

[00:23:42] Eric Goranson: Yeah, but it doesn't look great when you do it that way And so I'd much have rather have it things, you know be what they are now what I want to talk to you here Is really about the cabinet box itself. And you know, my rules have changed on this. I used to say you [00:24:00] always have to have plywood and you always have to have a dovetail drawer box.

[00:24:05] Eric Goranson: And the dovetail drawer box is how they put that, you know, like a maple dovetail drawer box together. That is really great. But with today's hardware, it's not needed like it used to be, you know, 30 years ago, when all you had were sidemount slides in under an inside mount. You know, like the very side or the little white rollers that were kind of a three quarter extension glide.

[00:24:29] Eric Goranson: Many of those, when they shut the drawer front kept. Is where it stops. So those bumpers are what stopped the drawer. And so you needed to have that drawer box who didn't knock the drawer front off of the drawer box. That's where that dovetail was such a big deal. Well nowadays, over the last 20 or so years, that dovetail has become much less important.

[00:24:53] Eric Goranson: Because the glides have now moved from the sides to underneath where it's supporting the bottom of the box. And the [00:25:00] stop and the soft close is built into the glide. So that front is now decorative instead of the positive stop for the drawer box. So, as the glides have changed, my rules have changed. I'm okay with a plywood drawer box that's edge banded that's been glued and pin nailed together or dadoed together.

[00:25:20] Eric Goranson: That's a fine drawer box. There's nothing wrong with that. And now the big debate is between particle board and plywood. And there's going to be a lot of people that say, Hey, you know, if you get water on that, it's going to get destroyed. You know something, if you get water on a plywood drawer box, it gets a cabinet box.

[00:25:41] Eric Goranson: It gets destroyed too. So if you get that much water in there. You're already taking cabinets out. You're already getting the water out from underneath it. You've probably got a buckled floor. So, I'm really not as much, I'm not as much worried about the particle board versus plywood box [00:26:00] debate anymore.

[00:26:01] Eric Goranson: And one of the issues that I have with plywood, especially these days, is that you can have project creep. And dimension creep within that. So the thing with particle board is it's a, it's a manufactured product. So it's the right thickness every single time. Now I have done big kitchens with plywood and plywood is nominally correct.

[00:26:26] Eric Goranson: You know, rarely is three quarter inch plywood or half inch plywood, half inch. It's within a 16th, maybe even an eighth sometimes, but it's right in there. So the problem is if you've got 12 boxes, I've grown three quarters of an inch on the run because of those little incremental distances. So if the plywood is slightly bigger than what they had figured into their saws or their program, now you can add dimensions because each box has two sides to it, right?

[00:26:59] Eric Goranson: So [00:27:00] if you have an eighth, each cabin, you know, 16th, each cabin is an eighth. You start putting 10 or 12 boxes together and you're an eighth per cabinet. Who eight cabinets you've got an inch. So that can creep up pretty quickly. I have seen some big problems with cabinets and especially stuff made in a factory.

[00:27:23] Eric Goranson: Where that stuff has not been accounted for, and all of a sudden, the cabinets that were ordered correctly and built correctly, except for someone not paying attention to the thickness of the material, now all of a sudden, that thing has crept out to be an inch bigger, and it doesn't fit exactly the way you want it to.

[00:27:42] Eric Goranson: So these are things that you've got to be very careful with, and these are things that a good designer, that's why those fillers that go in, or your friends, whether or not they're attached to the cabinet or loose, It doesn't matter. So these are things that, uh, you really got to pay attention to that can be big [00:28:00] problems if you're not watching forum.

[00:28:02] Eric Goranson: So really, uh, particle board versus plywood, you know, uh, I like the no added urea, you know, basically the formaldehyde free, even though nothing's formaldehyde freed when it's wood, but the no added urea formaldehyde is one of those big ones. You can really, um, have a healthy cabinet and that's great for a plywood.

[00:28:24] Eric Goranson: Some of the import plywoods can have lots and lots of formaldehyde in them, and that can be its own health issue round the house. We'll be right back. We'll wrap this conversation up just as soon as we return.[00:29:00]

[00:29:05] Eric Goranson: Welcome back to the round the house show. This is where we help you get the most out of your home through information and education. Thanks for joining us. We've been talking about. My tips to great kitchen design today and remodeling that kitchen. And this is an interesting one here that I wanted to kind of dive into a little bit, and it's talking about a stained cabinet versus a painted cabinet and being realistic with the finishes that you choose.

[00:29:33] Eric Goranson: Within that space. So if you are a person that says, oh, I love the woodgrain look awesome, maybe you're that person that's going, wow, I love the painted look. That's great too. But let's have a legitimate conversation about the pluses and minuses that many people don't tell you about woodgrain, whether you like it or not.

[00:29:55] Eric Goranson: Does a great job of hiding little nicks and [00:30:00] imperfections because the wood grain is random and it does hide those scratches and use marks so much better than paint. Paint is like your car. When you go buy a brand new car and it is perfect, every little hairline scratch, nick, ding, anything else shows up and it's going to.

[00:30:22] Eric Goranson: So if you have small children, if you have pets, If you love to cook and you are, you know, hard on things, and hard on things could mean lots of jewelry when you cook, it could mean belt buckles, it could mean anything from even my chain hanging down from my wallet or a tool belt. These are all things that create damage to finish fronts on base cabinets.

[00:30:50] Eric Goranson: It's just what it is. And that wear is going to show up differently. A white cabinet will show scratches. More often than even a [00:31:00] natural maple or a cherry or whatever stained cabinet. So if you those scratches are gonna bug you, think twice about a painted finish because it will show more wear. You know, my kitchen's got about three years on it, almost four years on it now.

[00:31:16] Eric Goranson: It's doing well. It has had a really durable baked on finish and it's doing okay. Is there a few little wear scratches on it? Yeah. Cause it gets used every day. So it's one of those things that you should consider. But if it was stained, it would look just the same as it did coming out of the factory. So those are little things to consider on whether you're going to do a painted or a stained things to consider as well.

[00:31:43] Eric Goranson: And one thing to consider too, is what would and how it's going to react. And these are big things. So when you think about a wood cabinet, Wood reacts to sunlight in UV completely differently. When you buy a natural [00:32:00] maple, a clear coat on maple, that is going to show up a really white wood. Now, if there is a finish on it, like a waterborne finish, it's going to seem really white in three or four years, or less, UV light is coming into this space.

[00:32:19] Eric Goranson: It will yellow. It's what it does. It's what the wood does. So if you have a lot of reflection from a swimming pool, older windows, or lots of glass, unless you've got UV filters that are taking out all that UV from coming through there, unless you've got that on the glass as an option, that is going to change colors.

[00:32:42] Eric Goranson: It will yellow. That's just what it does. Now, if it's cherry American cherry, for instance, that will darken. So that cherry will darken depending on how much UV and sunlight that gets in there as well. Now I have had, um, remodeling [00:33:00] work done. Where we put the brand new kitchen in and they came in and had to do some other work and the painters came in and painted off the cabinets and there was a lot of UV and you could see for about three weeks where the blue tape marks were because that aged differently than what happened to the rest of the cabinets.

[00:33:21] Eric Goranson: That's how much it can age depending on the UV. So these are things you need to consider. Because it will get darker again. It's the lightest. It's gonna be now even with cherry if you have lots of UV And I've only seen this happen a few times because it it really showed it I was in a kitchen cabinet showroom where the would look like driftwood.

[00:33:44] Eric Goranson: It was all bleached out So once cherry gets enough UV almost every wood does this at some point it gets bleached out where it loses the oils And it just over bakes the wood And it starts looking like beach driftwood. Now, [00:34:00] this was an extreme. It had a south facing, full height glass showroom. And it was about 8 feet from the wall.

[00:34:08] Eric Goranson: Of the window wall. And it just baked in time. And in about 8 years, that thing was fried. And it just got looking worse. It almost looked kind of cool at the end, because it was so, until you opened the doors and went, Well, that's different. Walnut does the same thing. Black walnut lightens as it gets more sun.

[00:34:28] Eric Goranson: So that's why when you see mid century homes, you'll go, wow, those were light cabinets. You open the doors up many times in that original mid century, you're going to see that kind of happen where you go, wow, it's darker in here. It's because that Walnut was lighting, getting lighter from the wood changing.

[00:34:44] Eric Goranson: And then there's other woods that, um, have that can actually refract light. And this was something there was a wood. I don't even know if it's being used in cabinetry anymore. It was popular 20 years ago, but it was a green option. That was a eucalyptus [00:35:00] hybrid. It was called Liptus. Now, I used this in a project that I designed out years ago in Bellevue, Washington, called Lincoln Square.

[00:35:08] Eric Goranson: And if you're living in one of those condos today, yeah, that wood is Liptus. It's a eucalyptus hybrid that was made to grow fast. You could cut it off and it would grow up out of the same stump again. So, it was something that was a green alternative. Now, that wood refracts light. So, if you have a style and rail door, which is the The rails are like, to better describe it, the rails are the bottom pieces of the door, so they look like, well, rails on a railway.

[00:35:35] Eric Goranson: So that's the rails, the stiles go up and down. The difference here is, is that the rails would look darker. And then you put the door on the other side, and they look darker. So it looked like that all the rails were a different tone than the stiles. The bottom and top would be darker than the sides. And then, um, I tell you what, the architect thought I was messing with them that we had some poor wood [00:36:00] selection, went in there and showed them that that was how the wood was, and they were kind of surprised that that actually changed that around that way.

[00:36:08] Eric Goranson: So be careful with some species of wood, depending on how the light hits it. It can actually make parts of that cabinet look darker than the other. Be careful with your wood selection on that and make sure that you've got things correctly taken care of with UV. UV can damage cabinets and can create a serious hot mess.

[00:36:28] Eric Goranson: Now, I wanted to talk a little about designs in the corners of a kitchen. You know, some people like me, I don't have a corner in my kitchen. I have a galley style kitchen where I've got two runs that are, you know, opposite of each other. But so many kitchens out there have an L shape or a corner or a U or something going on, and those corners can be super tough to deal with.

[00:36:50] Eric Goranson: Now, some of the things you need to look at is what makes sense. Now, you know, what's coming up to that corner is, is important. And let me get to this [00:37:00] first. When I'm starting like on a, on a sink run, for instance, even though there's no rule saying it has to be this way, most people want, just because it's always been done that way, the sink centered on the window.

[00:37:13] Eric Goranson: And I can have a hour long debate on that, whether that's right or wrong. It's depending on the space, how it is, size of window. But if you've got that on one side, what I want to see is, I want to see the dishwasher. On one side of it, it doesn't have to be right or left, and this is something that you can learn to deal with, whether you're right or left handed, but sometimes you need to make sense of this, how it's going to go.

[00:37:36] Eric Goranson: So you've got your sink, you've got that on 1 side, the other side, I always want to put in a trash can roll out right there. So that way you can have the dishwasher door down. You can be scraping dishes on the other side of it. Now, and then on the, you can put the dishes into the dishwasher. So you're clear that way.

[00:37:54] Eric Goranson: So that way you're not having to move things. It can be one swift motion. Now here's the other [00:38:00] thing. In most cases, I want to see that dishwasher on the opposite side of the range, because when I design, I design in zones. So the cleanup zone is typically what's above the dishwasher on the counter. Now, the most popular place to prep is if you have a range or a cooktop, is that area between the sink and that appliance.

[00:38:26] Eric Goranson: Now, I don't want to put those in the same spot, so if I have the sink in front of me and my dishwasher to the right, I don't want on the right, on the same side as the dishwasher, that range farther down. In that instance, I would move the dishwasher to the other side, and so that way you have a prep area, and then you're taking your dirty things and putting it on the other side.

[00:38:48] Eric Goranson: So you kind of have to figure those things out first before you deal with corners, and especially with that. So what I like to do is get my major pieces in the design first, and then start working on the [00:39:00] corners. Because sometimes, you might have a lazy Susan that can fit in there. Sometimes you don't need a space in there at all.

[00:39:06] Eric Goranson: I have voided out corners where you don't use that space and it gave me a lot more drawer space and a lot more storage than trying to reach around and deal with it. All right, guys, that's all we can talk about today. When we're talking about kitchens, I could do another one on design. We might do that in an upcoming episode.

[00:39:23] Eric Goranson: Thanks for tuning in and around the house. We have one hour ahead. Just after this. We'll see you after these important messages.