Well, good evening and welcome to Crowd Church. My name is Matt Edmundson and it
is great to be with you this Sunday evening. I am joined by— how would I
describe you, Dan? It's like, uh, Liverpool's answer to Batman. Uh, beside me is
Dan Orange, which is being filmed as we speak. Well, I know they're waiting on
you to get back.
I know, yeah. It's being filmed on the Runcorn Bridge just down the road. Oh,
there you go. Yeah, snow and everything, Batman. Snow? Yeah.
In the middle of summer?
Yeah, they've got fake snow on the Runcorn Bridge.
Wow.
I'm going to go down and have a look. Anyway, and on my right, we've got
Liverpool's answer to Superman, Mike Harris. How are we doing?
I'm doing really well.
Yeah.
Yeah, really. Looking forward to it.
Did you forget your cape?
Yes. Yeah, I would say I'm more like Robin.
Robin.
The leotard and goggles.
So let us know in the comments what superhero you think you are. That would be
really good. Alicia's in the comments. Hey, good to see you. Hello. Oh, yeah.
Um, good to see you in there, but do say hi in the comments if you haven't done
so already. I'm just writing the YouTube comments to say hi, let us know where
you're watching from, um, and it'll be great to interact with you on this live
stream. Yes, it would. So let me run down my little checklist. I think I've done
the welcome, uh, and the intro, um, uh, invite to comment. Yes, I've done that.
So, uh, just let you know that Crowd is an online church. You are welcome here,
it's great to have you. Um, we are a Christian church. Uh, we've been doing the
live streaming thing. If you're new to Crowd, by the way, we've been doing it
for, I don't know, a good while. A little while, yeah. I don't think— since
COVID um, we, we came online in COVID. And it's, it's a little bit different to
a normal church, in-person church. It's a lot more interactive. And so you can
join in in the comments, you can ask your questions, uh, we will try our best to
answer them as we go through. Um, Mike's going to bring the talk, we're going to
chat about the talk in something called Conversation Street. Um, so it's kind
of— it is church, it's just a little bit different. Um, at the end of the
service we've got live lounge, so we invite you to come join us on Google Meet,
um, which Zoe will put the link in the comments for. Uh, just you just press the
button on the thingy, so the Stream Deck, as she figures out the technology.
There we go. Uh, so yeah, there's the comment, uh, www— no, go.crowd.church/meet.
Giving you the wrong web address. The website is crowd.church if you want to
find out anything about Crowd Church. We have a brand new website. Thank you so
much, everybody, by the way, who have been, uh, dialing in and telling me where
all the mistakes are in the website. That's been very, very helpful. We have
fixed quite a few of them, um, so do keep those coming in. Uh, I, I would
genuinely love to know where the mistakes are. Um, so yeah, uh, Crowd Church,
you can find out all information about the church there. The Alpha courses we
run, we've just set new dates up for a new Alpha course, which I think is the
9th of September. Um, so if you'd like to register for that Alpha course,
registration's now open. Alpha, for those of you don't know, is basically an
introduction to Christianity. So a lot of people who are sort of searching, um,
for answers, big life answers, and they're sort of curious about Christianity do
Alpha. You don't have to be a Christian to do it, and most people aren't. Or if
you're early in your Christian faith and you want to know some of the answers to
the Christian, uh, story, then come and try Alpha. Uh, and like I say, the
registration is available on the website. You can head to that and see all of
those. So I think, uh, that's all of the notes. Well, actually, that's not all
the notices, but I'm not going to bore you with the rest of them. We've got some
really exciting stuff actually with Crowd coming up, so some big changes, um,
which we're going to talk about probably— well, I don't know when we're gonna
know because I'm just thinking actually in August, which this is the last, uh,
one in July, the last livestream in August. So we don't livestream in August,
the Sunday's, uh, Sunday's service. We do something called the non-live
livestream. And so that's where we, we still like do a, a thing on YouTube with
the talk there's just none of this sort of interaction that we have, this sort
of live interaction, mainly because the whole Crowd team here, we just take
August as a bit of a sabbatical and just refresh ourselves because there's a lot
going on. Um, and so yeah, I'm not quite sure I'm going to talk about what's
going on with Crowd Church. Maybe we'll do it later after the talk. We'll wait
and see, uh, how it's happening. So let me put my specs on. Let's have a look at
what's going on in the comments. Uh, Matt Crew, as the proofreader for the
website, I saw no mistakes. That's really Hey, nice work. I don't think you've
looked properly yet, Matt. There'll be some. Uh, Sam says the website looks
great. Thank you, Sam. Uh, always good to see you, my friend. Um, let me just
delete— Ros is on. Hi, Ros.
How you doing?
Uh, hopefully you're having a beautiful day. Sam says hi. Ellis, new website is
much better, by the way.
Good, good feedback.
Yeah, yeah. It's all very good feedback about the website, which is great. Uh,
Katharine is on 1886. Normally when people put their usernames— so Katharine
1886, right? Normally when people put their users, like the year of birth, isn't
it? So welcome. That's quite impressive. Uh, so good to have you on board. Uh,
let me just clear out some of these things. There we go. Um, so yeah, great to
see you, great to have you on board. Uh, Mike, what we talking— well, what are
you talking about tonight?
Um, so today we are talking about service. Um, we're talking about how Jesus
created a new way of living, a new way of, um, leading. Um, I'm gonna look at—
yeah, we're gonna look at that and how Jesus demonstrated that.
Fantastic, fantastic. Well, Uh, unless I've missed something, Dan.
No, I think that's—
should we jump into it?
Jump into it.
It's okay. So we're going to jump into the talk. The legendary Mike Harris, also
known as Superman, uh, is going to talk about service and this thing that Jesus
set up. We're going to get into conversation street. Uh, grab your notebooks,
grab your pens, write in the comments. We'd love to hear your thoughts, your
ideas. Um, and of course, if you need Superman during the talk, just again write
that in the comments. Mike will surely answer. Over to you, Mike.
Great. Well, it is super to be here. And just as a little bit of a recap for
those of you who maybe didn't see last week's Crowd Church, Ade was speaking and
he was speaking about answering the question, who is our neighbor? And we had a
little look at that and we had a look at why that was important to the to the
guy who asked that question, um, and we looked at, you know, who our neighbor
is. And today we are looking at how we treat our neighbor, um, and so that,
that's what I'm going to be looking at. And the passage, um, which I'm going to
read out is in the Gospel of John, so John's eyewitness account, um, and it's in
chapter 13. So I'm just going to start by reading a little bit of that. It only
takes a few minutes. So this is John chapter 13, and it says this: It was just
before the Passover festival, and Jesus knew the hour had come for him to leave
this world and go to the Father. Having loved his own who were in the world, he
loved them to the end. The evening meal was in progress, and the devil had
already prompted Judas, the son of Simon Iscariot, to betray Jesus. Jesus knew
that the Father had put all things under his power, and that he had come from
God and was returning to God. So he got up from the meal, took off his outer
clothing, and wrapped a towel around his waist. After that, he poured water into
a basin and began to wash his disciples' feet, drying them with the towel that
was wrapped around him. I'm then going to jump to verse 12. When he had finished
washing their feet, he put on his clothes and returned to his place. "Do you
understand what I have done for you?" he asked them. "You call me 'Teacher' and
'Lord,' and rightly so, for that is what I am. Now that I, your Lord and
Teacher, have washed your feet, you also should wash one another's feet. I have
set you an example, that you should do as I have done for you. Very truly I tell
you, no servant is greater than his master, nor is a messenger greater than the
one who sent him." Now that you know these things, you will be blessed if you do
them. Okay, so that is the passage, uh, quite a famous passage, uh, of Jesus
washing the disciples' feet. And so first of all, I just want to point out a few
things about this passage. So the first thing is, um, a little bit of context.
So Jesus is not far off going to the cross to die. He knows that that is where
he's heading, um, and he decides that this is a really, um, that one of the
things that he wants to leave with the disciples is this example about how to
serve. And so Jesus decides that he's gonna take on the position of the lowest
possible servant and wash his disciples' feet. You see, back in those times, if
a Jewish, um, person had Jewish slaves, he wouldn't— the master wouldn't even
ask the Jewish slaves to wash people's feet. It was too degrading for them. He
would actually ask— only ask Gentile slaves to do this job. This was even within
slaves, there was like this hierarchy, and the Gentile slave was the one who was
asked to clean feet because it was the lowest, the most degrading job. And Jesus
decides to place himself in that role. And so he takes off his outer clothes, he
wraps a towel around him, and he takes on the role of this low Gentile slave. He
performs this act, and then at the end of the act, he tells his disciples to do
the same, and if they do it, then they will be blessed. You see, this act of
Jesus serving his disciples pointed back to his life, to everything that he had
done, and that it was all an act of service. That this act of washing his
disciples' feet is like what he's been doing since the start. He's been serving
those that are ill, those that are sick, those that are around him. He's been
serving them and teaching them and feeding them, and he's been laying himself
down in order to raise up these other people. And so it's pointing back. It's
actually, just for those geeks amongst you, it actually points even further back
to Joseph. Uh, you know, I've got to, uh, thank a friend of mine, Alison, who
pointed this out to me, that back when Joseph— and for those who don't know,
Joseph and the technical, the dream coat and all that, that sort of story— his
brothers eventually come to him in Egypt And through his steward, he provides water
for his brothers, his 11 brothers, of which, you know, he's the 12th, for them
to wash their feet. So you've got Joseph providing water for his brothers to
have their feet washed before he announces who he is, before he reveals who he
is. And then in Jesus, you've got Jesus washing the 12 disciples' feet before he
goes to the cross to reveal who he is. So they're similar but different because
Jesus is the one who takes on the role of the slave. You see, with Joseph, it was his
slave who took the water out to wash his brother's feet, but Jesus took on that
role himself in order to wash his disciples' feet. You see, Jesus calls us to
serve and to, to live a life of service. This act pointed backwards to Jesus's
life before this point. It was a present act of service, and it also pointed to
the fact that he was just about to not just lay down his hopes and dreams, but
to lay down his life on the cross. That even— he even lay his life down before
death. He submitted to death, even death on a cross. And so Jesus calls us to
serve and to serve our neighbor. And so the question, you know, for me, and, and
it's the same question that was asked last time, is how can I do this? Of
course, I could just go out and start serving, but how can I do this? And for
this, we have to look at verse 3 of this. And it says this in verse 3, it said,
Jesus knew that the Father had put all things under his power and that he had
come from God and was returning to God. You see, Jesus knew who he was and where
he'd come from. And in order for us to serve in the way that Jesus calls us to,
we need to know those two things. We need to know who we are, and we need to
know where we've come from. You see, because it's only then that we can serve
like Jesus did, from a point of, of power. And it's only then that it is, that
it is powerful and that it is useful. We need to know who we are. Well, first of
all, in order to know who you are, you need to look at Jesus. You need to read
the Bible, and the Bible will tell you a number of things. And you can go and
look at these. I would encourage you to Google 'Who am I in Christ?' and you'll
get big lists of verses and promises that tell you who you are. So you are loved
unconditionally. Romans 8:38-39 tells us that there is nothing that can, um,
separate you from Jesus's love. You are forgiven. There is no condemnation. You
are a new creation. You are a— you are the workmanship of God, created in order
to do good works. You are the temple of the Holy Spirit. God himself lives in
you. And so when you first of all recognize who you are, you don't now have to
compete for attention. You don't have to compete for affirmation. You have that
already because you know who you are, and that then enables you to be able to
serve like Jesus did. But also, you need to know where you came from last week.
Ade, um, talked brilliantly about, um, the Good Samaritan. And in Conversation
Street, me and Dan, we were talking about the fact that in that story, it's,
it's easy to think, oh, how do I serve other people? But it's also important to
remember that we were the robber who was left for dead on the side of the road.
And in the Good Samaritan story, you've got, um, the Samaritan who eventually
comes and saves this robber, um, puts him on his donkey, takes him to the inn
and makes sure everything is there for him and pays for all of his care and
stuff like that. You know, we were the robber who was on the side of the road.
But Jesus, through his death and resurrection, have come and saved us and
restored us and made us a new creation. And when we start to read the Bible and
we look at Jesus's life and we look at where we have come from, that enables us
further to be able to empathize with those that are around us and serve them
better. So we need to know who we are and we need to know where we've come from.
We also need to know, like Jesus did, where we are heading. And you know, Jesus
has prepared— is preparing a place for you. We are going to rule and reign in
paradise with the one who is love, the one who has defeated death. And we are
called and we are going to reign with Jesus. In that place. And that is
something that we can look forward to, have hope in, fix— try and fix in our
gaze. So let's remember who we are, where we've come from, and where we're
heading. And that'll help us to serve. You know, I sometimes, um, look at people
who are famous, people who are, you know, very, very wealthy. And I've taken a
bad example, but Elon Musk. And I've had conversations with people, and I've
joined in these conversations where I'm like, if only, you know, given all of
the power, given all of the money that he has, he could do this and he could
solve this problem. And if he just did this with his power, with his influence,
then he could solve this problem. And he could do this, and he could do that,
and he could solve all these problems. You know, when you look at other people,
you know, like the President of America with all of this power, and if only they
could do this and this, then they would be able to solve all these problems. I
want to tell you today that heaven roars you on. Heaven looks down at you with
all of the power and all of the authority and all of the possibilities that you
have within you. And is roaring you on to serve and to influence those that are
around you, to be it, to be Jesus' hands and feet with those that are around
you, like your neighbor, like I talked about last week. And with the power of
God in you, you are being cheered on. Um, and maybe today is time for you to to
accept that challenge, to accept who you are, to accept where you've come from,
to accept that you have been placed where you are. You have been given the power
of God and that you are called to serve where you are right now and have an
enormous impact where you are. I can't remember who it is who says, um, who is
it? Dallas Willard was saying— I was reading today and he says that God's world
is an arena, and you have a huge role, an indispensable role to play in it. I, I
just want to throw out that challenge because this is a challenging piece of
scripture, that you have been called and placed where you are. It is time to get
up and kneel down. I just want to finish with, um, a little story that I heard a
friend of mine say this week. It's just, just quite an inspiring story about how
one man, um, saved someone in front of him. So this guy, I think he was a
Catholic priest, and he really, really enjoyed running, um, but didn't have
loads of money, but saved and saved and saved and was able to eventually buy a
really good pair of running trainers. And he went out running in them, and they
were brilliant. They were everything that he'd hoped they were going to be. And,
you know, they were expensive, and he recognized that, you know, they were going
to last a long time, and so he thought they were a worthwhile investment. A few
days after he'd bought them and been out in them and realized how good they
were, a guy turned up at his door, um, and didn't speak the same language, and,
um, didn't have any shoes on, um, and clearly looked homeless, um, and looked in
need of some, some real care. And so this guy was pointing to his feet and he
needed something to wear on his feet. And so this guy went and got all the shoes
in his house and put them before him, and he was trying them on, and the only
ones that would fit were this pair of running shoes that, um, that, that this
guy had just bought. And so, uh, the, the guy eventually decided, well, if
they're the ones that fit, then you can take them. And, and he took them and he
went off. That night, this guy had a dream. And in this dream— and as he was
recounting this story, he could barely get the dream out because he was bawling
his eyes out. And as he was explaining this dream, before him in this dream
stood this man who he knew to be Jesus, wearing the trainers that he'd given to
this guy. And this— the guy who, who gave up these trainers, you know, when he
woke up in the morning, you know, he— one of the thoughts that he had was I
could have missed that chance. I could have just gone and got any pair of shoes,
a pair of shoes that, you know, that we didn't use, and brought them, and, and
this guy would have been made up with them. And I might have missed this
opportunity to give to my Lord, to my Savior, to my King, the best of what I
had. You know, the people who you are surrounded by today they need you to serve
them. They need you to show them Jesus. And what better way? You know, Jesus
calls us to serve, to lay down our life for each other and for our friends. And
when we do that, we don't always know or even get to see the power, um, that
those acts have. Um, but they are powerful. You know, just, just to return to
what Dallas Willard said, he says that God's world is an arena and you have an
indispensable role to play. It is time for us to get up and for us to lay down.
Back to you in the studio. Where I reside also. I
thought I was on TV-am.
Yeah, love that.
He's like 1.5 meters away, because I'm not even that, like maybe a meter. I
could probably smack you up with that.
You probably could.
So back to the studio. TV, you're going to have to explain TV-am.
Yeah, that's a cultural reference from the past.
That is a, there's only a certain subset of people. Maybe Katharine who was born
in 1886.
Maybe she can remember that. Yeah.
Although Alicia put in the comments Um, uh, I, I saw this actually. We'll get on
to the talk in a second, but I did see this because her, uh, YouTube is 1316 or
something like that. Oh wow, 1316. And she goes it was just a random number
assigned by YouTube, it's not the year she was born. She was at great pains to
point that out. So, um, yes, anyway, regardless of whatever age you are, you're
welcome at Crowd Church. Uh, we like multi-generational church. Um, to be fair,
it's normally me that's the end of the old jokes.
So yeah, you're the '80s.
I mean, yeah, we went on to, um, uh, we've just— I've just literally got back
from Wildfires, which is like a, a festival, Christian festival down in the
south of England. If you're in the UK next August, highly recommend it. I'm
going to be there. We're going to talk more about it on Crowd. Come join us.
Anyway, the, um, Uh, where was I going with that? What did you just say? I
totally lost my train of thought.
The '80s.
Oh, the '80s.
Yeah.
So we're down at Wildfires and, um, Anna, who you will know if you're a regular
to Crowd, she's one of the, the key hosts, one of the leaders of Crowd. Her and
Andy, um, went to one of these sort of game exchange cafes, which I'd never
heard of. It's where you go— have you heard of this?
No. You go into Wildfires.
No, it wasn't our Wildfires, it was on the sort of way to Wildfires. It's where
you go, you take a game and you leave that game but you take another game. So
it's like a game swap, which is kind of cool. Anyway, Anna bought, uh, '80s
Trivia.' We thought you'd like this, Matt, but we never actually did play on
Wildfires. Um, so maybe we'll do that on live on the air one day. Anyway, I
digress. Um, love that, Mike. So it's, it's interesting, is it? This whole— I
think with these kind of stories, right, you— they become so familiar that you
you— it's like you don't think about it, becomes autonomous. I mean, it's like,
yeah, we know Jesus washed his disciples' feet, I probably should do something
and serve at some point, and you're off to the next one.
Yeah.
Um, what was the biggest challenge when you prepared the talk?
The biggest challenge was thinking about— I was talking last week about these
two groups of people. And you hear us talk about you need to serve, and you've
got one group of people who will just go out and do it. They're just people who
say, right, if Jesus says I'm to serve, then I'm gonna go and serve.
Yeah.
And then you've got the other group of people who just don't think they're
worthy.
Yeah.
And so they just feel condemned.
Yeah.
So you've got one group of people who just go and do it, their heart isn't
really in it, but they just go and do it. And then you've got the other group of
people you just feel condemned. And so the challenge was to try and think about,
so how do we, how do we help, how do we help both groups?
Yeah, I loved it, Mike. I really loved the, the heaven, heaven roars you on.
Yeah.
And that, and like you were saying, it, it's easy to say, oh, Elon Musk could do
that, these people could say that, Bill Gates can, you know, make another
vaccine, pay for that. Um, always putting the emphasis on someone else because
they've got, got money. But we have, we have heaven's resources, don't we?
We've got—
no matter what our task is, God's got something for us to do. Like that, that
priest giving his, his running shoes, you know, that if you can affect a life
like that, that's what God wants us to to do.
Yeah, yeah, that's such a good point, isn't it? And I think, um, it's one of
those things where you— well, this is put here in the comments actually, uh,
what in our society is the washing of people's feet that we could do for others?
And that's a really interesting question, I think. Now I want to tie this in
actually with something that Alicia said. So, um, she put in the comments. Let
me see if I can find it here. Uh, it's incredible how Christ demonstrates such
humility, and that humility isn't at all humiliation but a powerful
demonstration of his love and majesty. And it reminds me of Ephesians 2:10: For
we are God's handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God
prepared in advance for us to do. Now, if you've not seen these comments, by the
way, we, we live stream both horizontally and vertically on YouTube. There's two
live streams going on, uh, and so we have to sort of remember to look at the
comment streams. Um, but this is an interesting point, I think, because Ellis is
asking what are the washing of the feet things. And I love, uh, and I was in the
comments chatting with Alicia about this because I think it's great that it sort
of defines these good works that God's got before that God's sort of preordained
that we walk in. These good works are acts of service, right? That's what the
word ministry— yeah— is. And he's prepared these ahead of time for us to do.
Yeah.
And so, um, yeah, I guess, what are these good works in the modern-day era? And
I guess coupled with that is, how do you see them as good works rather than a
chore Because in my head, do you— I mean, when you're— I don't know, maybe Zoe
is better answering this question, but when we talked about chores with our
kids, the word chore is never a word you'd go, that's— how can I, how can I do
more chores, Dad? I'm so excited about doing chores. It's just the word chore
itself. You did, you washed our feet metaphorically. Um, it's true, we were away
and Zoe had made dinner for when we got back. Because she's a legend. But it's,
it's interesting, isn't it, because we view these things as chores. There's a
negative connotation with them. So, um, chores is a very—
yeah, it doesn't inspire, does it? Because it is just like, got it.
Yeah, I've got to put the trash out. Yeah, it's a chore.
That's for sure. Rather than—
yeah, well, I just need to serve my wife.
Yeah, yeah, right. It's just something I, yeah, I need to do.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Fascinating.
I love, um, so Mike, you, you put that God's got an indispensable role, or was
that what Dallas Willard said? Uh, yeah, I really like that, that phrase,
because it is, isn't it? We— I can think sometimes, oh, someone else could do
that, or I could do this, but is that as good as that? Or it's not as great as
what Paul did or Peter did. You know, he's got an indispensable role for us as
individuals. We can't— I think we talked last week it's not something to
compare. Yeah, you know, it's not— not my task I've got to do is comparable with
someone else's. That doesn't work. It's just what God's got for us, let's do for
him. And, and that's the important thing. It doesn't— it doesn't matter about
its size or its, you know, standing or whatever that might be.
Yeah, yeah, I, I totally agree. And I think, I think you But you're still on a
really good point there, is in that you're doing it for God. And I think
sometimes, you know, I can see something, I see a way of serving somebody, but I
might not particularly like that person. But I know that there's commands for me
to serve, but I do know that I love God. And so I think sometimes that's where
we can get our motivation from. We could say, okay, at this moment I don't have
those gushing feelings towards this person, but I do love God, and therefore I
love for God, I'm gonna, I'm gonna do this. And I think the more you do that,
you know, I, I know I've experienced this in my own life on occasions where,
where I've decided to do that for somebody, is that the emotions, the emotions
follow. Yeah, but then they're not always the driver. Yes. Um, yeah, and yeah,
there's an interesting part at the end of that which can be a bit confused at
the end of that passage where Jesus basically says, look, a slave is not greater
than his master. And, and Jesus is saying, you aren't greater than I am, and
look at what I'm doing, I'm washing the disciples' feet. And so we can identify
with, with Jesus and say, yes, you are right, I'm not greater than you. I've
seen you washing other people's feet, and therefore I'm gonna do the same. I'm
gonna, you know, I'm, I'm gonna step up and I'm gonna do it. Um, yeah, I think
it's also good, that verse that you said. It, it talks about the good works that
God has prepared for us to do. Now, that good is good according to him. Yeah,
not necessarily according to us. Yeah, Romans 8:28 says God works all things for
the good of those who love him. And so we think everything in my life, God's
working to make me better, to make me bigger, to make me stronger. It's like,
yeah, no, the good is according to him.
Yeah.
Yeah, and you know, we, we do have heaven to look forward to and paradise to
look forward to, but, but that good is, is, is according to him. Yeah, not, you
know, and sometimes that is gonna elevate us. Yeah, lift us up. Yeah. And
sometimes it's going to mean that we—
well, more often than it's, it's not.
It's not.
Yeah, it's, it's more about, uh, other people, isn't it? So I love this idea. I
mean, you made reference to it, Mike. I love this idea that in the Bible Jesus
tells you how to be great. In the sense that greatness, or being great, was
often seen in the church as a sort of a dirty word. I mean, what do you mean?
Because you shouldn't want to be great. Have no aspirations, have no drive. I
mean, have no desire to do great things. Jesus says, no, if you want to be
great, that's awesome, man. Yeah, here's how you do it. You'd be serving.
Paul says run the race to win, doesn't he? Run the race to dawdle, or, you know.
Yeah, yeah. Do it, do it, don't fart about, but do it. And it's like, but he
says, if you want to be great, you've got to be servant to all. He throws the
whole thing upside down. And so leadership, then ministry becomes about who you
serve rather than who serves you.
Yeah.
And so the good works that God's got beforehand that we should walk in will
often be a blessing to someone else, or will be to serve someone else. And
usually as you guys talked about last week, that will be at a cost to us.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And so not all the time. And you do get that, um, there is a benefit, I think,
to serve. And even psychologists now say this, don't they, that you get this
sort of, um, uh, kind of really good sort of feeling and vibe when you help
somebody or when you give something. Do you know what I mean? And it's, um, and
so it's not totally altruistic But at the same time, good works, like you say,
are what God says, and usually that's for the benefit of somebody else. You are
blessed to be a blessing, right? It's that whole drive. And I, I find that super
duper challenging.
I mean, it's super challenging, especially within the context within which we
live, which is all about stepping on each other, elevating yourself. How quickly
can you get up that ladder?
Yeah.
How many likes? How many subscribers? All of that kind of thing.
Yeah.
Um, you know, and, and, and so we're called to swim against that, and that's
really hard, really hard to do.
And well, it is because we live in a, in a— and just thinking that through,
right, our whole culture is, I want it faster and I want it easier, right? I
don't want any effort involved in what's going on. The whole thing about AI,
everyone's you either hate it or love it because there's going to be a robot
that's going to bring you a cup of tea whenever you want it, right? And we're
all like, oh, and it's, it's this idea that actually those kind of tasks are
menial, they're beneath us. And here we see Jesus doing the most menial and
lowest of tasks, which is washing the disciples' feet. And it's— he didn't— he
wasn't like, dude, come here, feet are dirty, sort them out. Here are my feet,
do me a pedicure while you're at it. It wasn't, it wasn't like that, was it? It
was like, here, give me your feet, dude, I know they stink, I'm gonna sort it.
This is not like— I wouldn't want to do that job. I genuinely wouldn't want to
do that. No, I've got a thing about touching people. I just, I don't know, I
don't know how he did it. Yeah, but it's just, I mean, it's, it's, yeah, it is
this kind of idea that greatness is found in the menial tasks, doing them for
other people. I don't see that many leadership books You don't, you don't.
And, uh, you know, the thing is that, that those opportunities to serve like
that are all around us. Yeah. And, you know, like Dallas Willard was saying,
we've got this indispensable role to play, and Jesus has prepared these good
works for us to do. And it's such a challenge for me because, you know, that
there will be times— I'm sure today where there have been opportunities for me
to lay aside my hopes for the day to serve somebody else. Yeah, it has to be.
Yeah, it has to be. And I've not seen them. Yeah, I've been too busy. Yeah, I've
been too elevated in my own thinking that I've missed them. Um, but, but, but
they're there. Yeah, they're there for— they're there for all of us. And not
only that, But God has given us everything we need, all the resources of heaven,
everything we need to be able to go and fulfill that role and meet that need.
Yeah.
Um, and it's a challenge. Yeah, it's a challenge.
It is. So what would you say then, going back to Ellis's question, are some of
the modern-day examples of washing people's feet? Because I mean, if you just
went in the street and said, can I wash your feet? I'm not sure that would go
down particularly well, but I, I, what would be, do you think, some modern
examples of this?
Two, two examples that I'm thinking of that have just come to mind, very, very
different. Um, first one is for, is to, I'm looking for the best way to describe
this, not befriend but bless people who are seen as toxic. So, you know, for
some people who've maybe messed up in terrible ways, being the person who's
prepared to risk your reputation to go and, um, administer something of Jesus'
love to them.
Yeah.
Um, to not completely disown them, that would potentially be something that
could, that could put some dirt on you, if you like. Yes. Um, another way, I, I
think just praising other people. I think the more, the more I'm online, the
less I see of people praising— yes, other people.
Yeah.
And I think, I think it's a lost art. And you know, when you praise somebody
else, you, you really are trying to lift them up, potentially at your own
expense. Um, so yeah, so I think wholeheartedly praising other people and
looking for things that are praiseworthy in other people and praising them for
it. Yeah. Um, is one another way to do it.
It's a really good point, just being generous.
Yeah.
I like that, Mike. And I think nowadays with the whole cancel culture, it's very
easy to not even, not even, you know, if you're online, not even like something
because you're concerned that, that, that links you to that. Yeah, to that, that
statement. What, you know, I like what they said there, but what about what they
said, you know, 10 years ago? But it's the same as, same as me, isn't it? We've,
yeah, we are infallible people. Infallible? Fallible.
I don't know how infallible I am. You go for it. I mean, you are Batman.
We, we make mistakes. That's easy.
Yeah, yeah.
Um, and it's, yeah, just, just praising what, what someone's said or done, or
just, yeah, loving them in that way.
Yeah, yeah.
Even I was thinking a more, much more menial thing. The first person to make the
cup of tea, you know, in our culture, it's not like sitting there, oh, I made
one last time, you know, and you're in the office. Yeah, it's your turn. He
hasn't got one. Yeah, he hasn't done the round. Yeah. Being the first person,
just little, yeah, little things.
I, I know it's another, um, you know, sort of spiritual thing, but I think
forgiving people as well, it's just really hard and it costs you a lot. And you
don't, you don't see anything about forgiveness really on social media other
than to say you need to forgive people because it benefits you. Um, And you
know, that's another thing that can put this on you in one sense, and it's gonna
cost you. Yeah, it's gonna cost you to do that.
Yeah, I think it's— whenever you think about serving or ministering to somebody,
the way I would answer this question— I mean, we can sit here and come up with a
thousand different ways. Yeah, right, of how to do it. I think what happens is
God puts opportunities in front of you. Yeah, right. And it's more, God, help me
see the opportunity that I have in front of me. And usually that is found, um,
in a people group that you probably have a bit of a heart for, right? So, um,
some people have a heart, say, for the homeless. So the guys at Green Pastures
Charity, a registered charity in the UK run by Andrew and his dad Pastor Pete,
amazing charity, got a real heart for the homeless.
Right?
And they serve the homeless in a great way. Um, you've got people who have a
heart for, say, sex workers. You've got people who've got a heart for those that
work in the NHS or in medicine, right? So yeah, there's, there's something God
will have put inside you, I would say, Ellis, where you have a heart for a
certain people group. And so the big question then becomes, if that's where I'm
feeling that specific aspect of of God's outpouring through me, how do I best
serve in that community, in that people group? Um, and I think the easiest way
to find that out is just to go and ask somebody, because that— to talk to
anybody for 5 minutes, I'll tell you what the 4 biggest problems are in whatever
it is they're working in. And you go, right, well, how can I make a difference
there? And I think it's such a powerful way of reframing rather than just going,
oh, well, that's nasty, isn't it? They're just gonna have to sort that out or,
or do whatever. So today we were, um, uh, we had, you know, visiting one of the
NHS hospitals. It's easy to complain about the hospital, um, and, you know, but
at the same time, I'm like, how can I serve these people? How can I, how can I
bless them? How can I encourage them? Um, and so you know, when you're talking
to the nurse or whatever, I always like to use a phrase, legend. You are a
legend. I mean, and just coming back to heaping praise on people.
Yeah.
Um, rather than you are a pain in the neck and you need to sort your life out,
which may be true. Um, but we'll start with the legend first. But I think,
where's your heart? What's that, that people group God has got on your heart?
But also, what are the opportunities in front of you right now? Just think back
through your day, and if you're in the, you know, world where today is just
literally starting for you, think back through your yesterday and just think
through 3 or 4 events. I reckon there'll be half a dozen opportunities in there
for you to serve, right? So me being in the hospital, there would have been
opportunities there to serve. Even here tonight, coming in, we have
opportunities. You got here early and you set all of this up so we didn't have
to do it, which was great. Yeah. Um, thank you, Dan, appreciate that. But it's,
it's like there was none of that, or you weren't here on time, you know what I
mean? It's like, I've done all of this. Which, no, this isn't—
this is—
it's not— it's not the vibe, it's not the culture. We just like, how can we
serve? How can we bless each other? Um, even on the campsite, everybody was
taking everybody's tents down. How, how they all got packed up, no idea. Um, but
it was just, it was just lovely to see everybody sort of digging in and and
helping. There's always opportunities to serve, and they don't have to— see, the
thing about washing the disciples' feet, I look at that and go, that's weird.
But it was an everyday thing. It happened all the time. It needed doing on a
regular basis, and Jesus just went away and did it. It was not a big monumental
thing that needed a million-pound fundraising. Do I mean, it was just like, I'll
go do that.
Yeah, I'll go do that.
It doesn't, it doesn't have to be a big thing. Me and my wife were traveling on
Monday, and we listened to this unbelievable podcast.
Like, was it What's the Story?
It wasn't that one, actually, but it was—
that is a number—
it is a very good podcast. Yeah, but on this occasion it wasn't that one. Um, it
was a guy called Simon Guillebaud who's been on What's the Story.
In fact, Simon was at Wildfire. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
He was talking with a lady called Mary, and I put the link on because just
Unbelievable.
She—
very, very brief. She just, oh, lived a horrendous—
Sorry, did you say you've put the link on? No, I will do. I'll do that next.
Horrendous upbringing. So many things happened to her. Anyway, you need to
listen to the story, but she was saying that this is my last walk. I'm going
out. I'm with my dog. She's homeless. She looked a mess. She was going to
basically end her life before she probably did some damage to this guy that had
really abused her. And a guy just walked past her and said, how was your day?
No, have a good day. And that's it. Never saw that guy again. Radically changed
her, changed her life. Like, just that, that word, because she looked a mess.
Yeah.
And it was the right time for her. And I think it really spoke to me that it
doesn't have to be big gestures. Yeah, just sometimes it's people that we
wouldn't, we wouldn't talk to, or just— we are— we're aware of God's prompting
just to not be in our own thoughts all the time. And, uh, yeah, really spoke to
me.
Wow.
Yeah, beautiful testimony. She's just impacted so many lives and stuff since.
Yeah. Yeah, amazing. I, I think, um, one thing throughout the day that would
change, um, my motivation is to remember that when, like that guy who just says
have a great day, something like that, but I think about going throughout my day
and all the opportunities that I've got to serve is to remember that when I see
an opportunity to serve, that it's God who's asking me to go and do that. I
think sometimes the, the task can seem menial. If, if, say, you're, you know,
you're working in an office or something like that, and there's something that
needs doing that isn't your job, and you go and do it. And maybe it seems menial
because you think doing this is, is helping my boss or something like that. But
when we remember that that task— go and say hello to that person— is something
that God— a good work that God has planned in advance for you to do, you're
being asked by the Creator of the universe to go and do that. Yeah. And we mess
it up all the time, and we don't do it, and we create a thousand reasons why we
shouldn't. But remembering, as you go through your day looking for
opportunities, that is that it is the Creator of the universe that is asking you
to go and do that. And I think that changes things. That changes things when
it's like, it does.
Yeah, yeah.
Can you, can you put that chair away? Can you do this? Can you do that? Can you
pay for this for that person? Um, I'm more motivated to do that when I remember
that it's he who has gone before me and prepared these works for me to do.
Yeah, yeah. So, so that comes back to what you said earlier, remember? Who you
are, where you've come from, where you're going.
Yeah.
Um, and, and I know, and you drew it out actually right at the start of that
verse, um, or this— right at the start of those verses. Uh, what was it it said?
Let me just pull up the scripture here, uh, so I don't mess it up. But it was,
um, Jesus knew that the Father had put all things under his power. That's a
remarkable statement, isn't it? It's like, all things are under my power. And
it's like, even in the midst of that, he still serves. Remember who you are,
where you've come from, where you're going. And I think that sense of identity
frees you from this need to try and prove yourself, right? Or by having
everybody serve me, right? Look how good I am, I've got all this going on around
me. Um, this sort of— it frees you from that need because you go, well, I'm
God's, I'm already enough. He's given me everything I need that pertains to life
and godliness. I'm content with that. Bring it on. I can now serve. I don't need
to prove anything to anybody, right? And I think there's something quite
remarkable about that. Um, that verse is not there by accident. When John
wrote this gospel, um, or Mark, or, you know, whoever wrote the gospel, um, it's
like, yes, Jesus knew this and he did it anyway. I love that. That's the, you
know, that's the whole, um, Philippians thing. And let this mind be in you that
was in Christ Jesus. He did not consider it robbery to be called equal with God.
And it's like, who humbled himself even to the point of death and became a
servant. I mean, is that— that's the whole deal. It's like, humble yourself,
become a servant, and change the world. It's a, it's a remarkable formula. We
should put that on a t-shirt. New t-shirt slogan. Um, just look at the comments.
Um, I think as Jesus, you know, used lots of parables a lot of the time to be
able to communicate things, but just as what you were saying then, Matt, you
know, he was asked who will be the greatest in the Kingdom of Heaven, and he
answered that quite plainly. He says, be the humble. And, you know, the— for me,
you, you know, what, what greater act of humility than than Jesus washing the
disciples' feet. But you've got to remember, like, all of the things that Jesus
made him— made himself not subject to, but placed himself under. So you've got
all the tax system, you've got the fact that he's in a human body, you've got
the fact that he grew up with all the temptations, you've got the fact that
there was rules, bad rules, bad occupation that he had to— and he had all the
power.
Yeah.
Yeah, to solve it in a second. Yeah, distorted culture. He was faced with, you
know, all these disciples that were just absolutely useless, and, you know, and
then he submitted to even death itself.
Yeah.
And you just think, yeah, that, that's humility. And, and the way we get
humility is by, is, is, is by knowing who we are. Where we've come from.
Yeah.
Um, and where we're going, and when, when we know that we can, we can serve.
And the next day, you know, he's going to be crucified. You know, that's the— I
think, I can't do much today because it's work tomorrow, you know.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm getting crucified.
Yeah, but I'm still going to wash your feet. Yeah, yeah. I need to get this
done. Yeah, yeah.
It's a really interesting point then. I've not thought about it. Um, so, uh,
Alicia has put in the comments, one of my recent projects is figuring out how to
make one of my sister's brownies. It's a small thing, but our kitchen makes me
claustrophobic, so it feels big to me, and it means a lot to her because she
knows how uncomfortable I get in tight spaces. Sometimes it really is the little
things. Um, don't ask me why I made my— okay, yeah, yeah. Um, well, one Anybody
out there that wants to make, uh, the brownies for Crowd Church, for the hosts
and the speakers of Sunday livestream? Oh yes, all is greatly received. But, uh,
I love that. It's, it's the little things. And actually, again, Alicia's
highlighted this point that it sometimes costs you. You've got to put yourself
in uncomfortable positions, right? It can feel weird in the sense of it's
unusual, it's a little bit different to go out and serve. Um, so it can— it
would, it would feel weird if I started washing feet, for example. I mean, but
it's like it— so it can cost you, it can, it can feel like that. So I think
that's awesome. Keep making the brownies, and I'm sure your sister will love it.
Um, uh, helping those who are heavily judged by society seems like a timeless
example of washing people's feet. Yes, I would totally agree. Yeah. Um, Ellis's
question makes me think of groups who are still heavily stigmatized, like those
with visibly displayed addictions and visible psychiatric— psychiatric—
yeah.
Um, symptoms. I think that's a big one, isn't it? Mental health. There's a big
opportunity to serve, uh, yeah, in a whole arena there. Uh, what's happening in
August? Oh, good. Jeez, we should probably talk about, um, August. I'll come
back to that. Um, thinking of 1 Corinthians— this is Alicia again— uh, 12:22: on
the contrary, those parts of the body that seem to be weaker are indispensable,
and the parts that we think are less honorable, we treat them with special
honor. That's, that's a really cool thing in church. Um, that we should be doing
a lot more. Um, yeah, very good. Hopefully I've got through all of the comments.
Matt Crew says drop some brownies off for all website proofreaders as well.
Yeah, I think you've got something going on with the brownies, Alicia. I just—
yeah, that's it, everyone's just now thinking of brownies, um, which is just a
beautiful thing. So, um, thanks, Mike.
That's all right.
Thanks, Dan. Um, before we go, let's talk about what is— let me just remind you
what's going to happen in August. Uh, so we do have the non-live livestream, so
we will still be putting stuff out every week. Um, I'm just looking slightly
wide-eyed because— just put Mike's camera on the screen. His background's
changed.
He's on holiday already.
Like, that's what's happening.
Mike's already there.
He's joining us live from the beach, which I absolutely love. Is that, is that
just totally gone now? So is that what's happened? Okay, you're gonna fix that.
Um, so yes, I love that. That's brilliant. Uh, so yeah, we're gonna do the
non-live live streams in August, so do keep joining in. Just still write your
comments. People will be joining in and watching. Uh, the small groups,
depending on which small group you're in, may or may not be happening, but the
small group leaders will be, uh, informing you about that. Like I said, every
bit of information you need is on the website. Coming up in September, we are
making some big changes. Well, I'd say big— let me not overemphasize. We're
going to make some changes to Crowd Church. Uh, we're going to introduce church
membership, uh, which we're going to talk about. We're going to be doing small
groups slightly differently, um, bigger and better ergo more awesome. Um, so
really excited about some of the changes coming to small groups. Um, so if
you're not a member of a church, if you're not, uh, and you would like Crowd to
be your church, we'd love to talk to you about membership. Um, the small groups—
if you're not in small groups, come join us on Wednesday night. We'd love to see
you in the various small groups. If you'd like to talk to me or Dan or Mike or
anyone of the Crowd Church leadership just about Crowd, what's going on, all
that sort of stuff. Um, before obviously becoming like a member, uh, we'd love
to talk to you. Um, but yeah, what else is happening in Crowd in September? Um,
more in-person meetups. Yes, that's another big thing that's happening. We're
going to be doing a lot more in-person meetups around the UK, and we're going to
be doing them in the north and in the south. Wildfires next year, which
literally I've just come off the back of, we're going to be doing a big crowd
gathering there at Wildfires. If you'd like to come join us, we'd love to see
you there. Um, more details will be coming up on the website soon, but you'll
probably have to book that quite quickly because Wildfires does sell out quite,
quite quickly. Uh, Alicia says there's so many exciting developments.
Yes.
Uh, Ellis, what's membership? Uh, stay connected, Ellis. We will talk to you a
bit more about that. Um, it's basically where you make brownies every week.
Yeah.
Don't worry, membership does sound a bit sometimes like subscription and stuff
like that. That's not it. Yeah, wait until September.
Yeah, yeah, it's a good thing, we promise. It's, uh, it's a good thing. It's
right, you don't have to give your inside leg measurement, all that sort of
stuff to join. Um, all it is is just saying, listen, um, I want to be part of— I
want to be part of Crowd Church. We know from a pastoral standpoint where— who
we're responsible for, um, which is really great, and who we're shepherding. Um,
and so it's just— that's all it is. It's, it's not a big deal. But I would say
it's not a big deal. Actually, I'm really excited by it. Um, I think it's going
to be great. So that's— but like I say, a lot more information coming soon on
the website. We will talk more about it in September, which is when we're going
to launch all of these things. But for now, we are going to go to live lounge. I
nearly called it livestream. It's not livestream, live lounge. Um, uh, Zoe's put
it in the, the, the comments, the go.crowd.church/meet, if you'd like to come
and meet us in there. Um, but yeah, any final comments from you, Mike?
Um, I suppose just look out for ways to serve, uh, this week. And, um, just
remember that it's Jesus, it's he who is asking you to serve. And, you know,
maybe one way is just to praise people. Um, look for ways to, to praise people
this week. Yeah.
Dan, I think what, um, Mike said in his talk, just who you are in Christ, just
perhaps just Google that. Who am I? If I— if you've given your life to God,
yeah, search who are you in Christ and see what he's, what he's done for you.
And if you haven't given your life to Jesus, get to know him. Yeah, you know,
send an email if you've got any questions. Get to know this Jesus. Best decision
you'll ever make.
Very good, very true. Um, and, uh, you can also go to the Crowd Church website.
There's a whole bunch of stuff about identity on there. Just click the identity
link, um, and it'll be in there, um, all the scriptures, everything. A lot of
talks about identity. So yes, um, well, have a phenomenal summer, um, uh,
whatever you're doing in August. I hope you have a great time. Um, really,
really excited for the summer plans. What have you got going on over summer? Are
you doing anything exciting? You're going away?
I'm going away, yes, at the end of— yeah, I was just saying, one of my customers
has said we can stay in his, his place in Spain in the heat.
Oh, okay.
Which is pretty awesome. Yeah, he's not there, he's, he's getting out there and
we're a family going. So very much looking forward to that. Yes, nice.
Love that. What are you doing, Mike?
Um, gardening, uh, for most of it.
But I am— busiest time of the year for you and your gardening.
So it is pretty busy. It is pretty busy. Um, looking to try and sell some plants
and then we're off to Devon for the week.
Nice, nice. Brilliant. Well, whatever your summer plans are, we wish you a very,
very happy summer. Like I say, do stay connected with us over August. It just
won't have the live conversation stuff. That will start again back in September.
Hopefully we'll see you in Live Lounge, but that's it from me. That's it from
Dan. That's it from Mike. God bless you. You are an absolute legend.
See you soon. Bye for now.