1 00:00:00,194 --> 00:00:01,823 We- we're changing things up on the Mindful Builder. 2 00:00:02,554 --> 00:00:08,144 Um, firstly, huge shout-out to our massive sponsors, ProClima 3 00:00:09,084 --> 00:00:12,416 Australia, who are patient with us. 4 00:00:12,416 --> 00:00:14,116 They love us, I think. 5 00:00:14,116 --> 00:00:14,278 I 6 00:00:14,278 --> 00:00:15,456 don't think they're patient with us. 7 00:00:15,456 --> 00:00:17,336 I think, I think they're, they're, they're enjoying the- 8 00:00:17,346 --> 00:00:18,516 Yeah … they're enjoying the ride. 9 00:00:18,516 --> 00:00:19,276 The rollercoaster. 10 00:00:19,416 --> 00:00:20,116 The rollercoaster. 11 00:00:20,156 --> 00:00:22,745 Um- I think I also want to make a big, uh, or give a big shout-out to 12 00:00:22,745 --> 00:00:24,266 Kyle from Wilderness Build Co. Yeah. 13 00:00:24,816 --> 00:00:29,625 Uh, today we are recording in his HQ in Fitzroy here. 14 00:00:29,636 --> 00:00:32,465 Uh, and I think we'll possibly be recording a few more- 15 00:00:32,505 --> 00:00:32,905 Yes … in this location. 16 00:00:32,905 --> 00:00:37,835 This is now our part-time pro climber studio, uh- Lucky, 17 00:00:37,835 --> 00:00:38,945 lucky- Bu- built to last studio 18 00:00:39,015 --> 00:00:40,496 lucky, lucky Kyle uses ProClimber. 19 00:00:40,505 --> 00:00:40,525 Yeah. 20 00:00:41,066 --> 00:00:44,916 So Ham, we had a chat a few weeks ago, or a few months ago, about 21 00:00:44,916 --> 00:00:46,065 just changing some things up. 22 00:00:46,066 --> 00:00:48,615 I, we both felt what we were doing was a little bit stagnant. 23 00:00:49,145 --> 00:00:53,575 Um, it was good, but we can always do better. 24 00:00:53,906 --> 00:00:57,215 Well, I, I don't think stagnant's really quite, quite the right word. 25 00:00:57,496 --> 00:01:03,595 I think that what we decided to do was get a little bit of structure around, uh, 26 00:01:03,615 --> 00:01:06,705 like a series of podcast, um, episodes. 27 00:01:06,726 --> 00:01:11,375 So over the next few weeks we are going to be focusing on pre-construction. 28 00:01:11,435 --> 00:01:13,635 And we're gonna go deep into every aspect. 29 00:01:13,635 --> 00:01:13,780 Yeah. 30 00:01:13,780 --> 00:01:14,315 So, yeah. 31 00:01:14,355 --> 00:01:15,986 So we're gonna be bringing people on. 32 00:01:15,986 --> 00:01:17,236 We've got Cameron Munro coming in. 33 00:01:17,236 --> 00:01:17,246 Yep. 34 00:01:17,246 --> 00:01:19,016 We've got Brad from Bamby Build Co coming in. 35 00:01:19,016 --> 00:01:20,755 We've got a building surveyor coming in as 36 00:01:20,755 --> 00:01:20,785 well. 37 00:01:20,785 --> 00:01:24,325 Yeah, doing surveyor, lawyers, insurance, a number of architects. 38 00:01:24,335 --> 00:01:27,215 Uh- Yeah … you're gonna hear a lot more from just Hamish and I as well, actually. 39 00:01:27,265 --> 00:01:29,016 And Ben from Accada doesn't know this yet. 40 00:01:29,036 --> 00:01:29,425 He's coming 41 00:01:29,485 --> 00:01:29,605 on. 42 00:01:29,606 --> 00:01:30,986 But Ben from Accada's gonna be coming on. 43 00:01:30,986 --> 00:01:31,155 Yeah. 44 00:01:31,205 --> 00:01:32,425 Maybe we should let Ray chat to him about 45 00:01:32,425 --> 00:01:32,525 his coming on. 46 00:01:32,525 --> 00:01:32,795 Yeah. 47 00:01:32,795 --> 00:01:35,945 So we want to take everything from the moment a client reaches 48 00:01:35,945 --> 00:01:38,375 out to us to the moment we get on site and everything between. 49 00:01:38,375 --> 00:01:42,555 So from model early to model often, uh, understanding your insurance, what 50 00:01:42,595 --> 00:01:46,155 an architect wants from a builder, understanding what our roles as 51 00:01:46,155 --> 00:01:48,945 builders responsibilities are, what the responsibilities of the architects 52 00:01:48,945 --> 00:01:54,145 are, uh, what we look for when we go onto a site for the first time, how 53 00:01:54,145 --> 00:01:57,605 to deal with clients, getting that first number, understanding estimation. 54 00:01:57,606 --> 00:02:00,776 So what we want to do is provide this holistic view of 55 00:02:00,845 --> 00:02:02,216 everything before you get on site. 56 00:02:02,216 --> 00:02:06,085 So if you're a client, an architect, a builder, a tradie, even just 57 00:02:06,085 --> 00:02:09,145 someone learning or starting their business, you have a huge amount of 58 00:02:09,145 --> 00:02:12,956 information that you can just draw on from Hamish and I. We're pretty much 59 00:02:12,956 --> 00:02:14,595 just gonna unlock all our secrets. 60 00:02:14,715 --> 00:02:14,735 Yeah. 61 00:02:14,735 --> 00:02:18,955 And- And, and, and I guess just full disclosure, what works for mine and Matt's 62 00:02:18,955 --> 00:02:22,725 businesses- Yeah … or what even works for my business, there's gonna be slight 63 00:02:22,726 --> 00:02:27,126 differences in how Matt approaches, but I think just generally speaking, some of 64 00:02:27,126 --> 00:02:31,225 the main talking points that we're gonna go through, I think can be adapted to 65 00:02:31,235 --> 00:02:33,015 pretty much any construction business. 66 00:02:33,036 --> 00:02:33,296 Yeah. 67 00:02:33,296 --> 00:02:36,186 And we're pretty much, like Hamish and I speak a lot behind the scenes 68 00:02:36,586 --> 00:02:38,846 with each other about business stuff, and we're kind of just 69 00:02:38,846 --> 00:02:40,125 bringing that to this conversation. 70 00:02:40,135 --> 00:02:40,165 Yeah. 71 00:02:40,165 --> 00:02:42,795 And his stuff he does that I love, that I really want to 72 00:02:42,795 --> 00:02:43,965 implement, and probably vice versa. 73 00:02:43,976 --> 00:02:47,736 And we, and, and, and it's sometimes we do the same thing, but I might 74 00:02:47,736 --> 00:02:48,756 do something slightly different. 75 00:02:48,765 --> 00:02:50,505 Hamish does something different. 76 00:02:50,745 --> 00:02:53,676 But together when you combine them, they actually become, uh, this 77 00:02:53,676 --> 00:02:57,375 huge, um, cascading event that will just really improve something. 78 00:02:57,375 --> 00:02:57,585 So- 79 00:02:57,655 --> 00:03:00,285 Well, and even to the point of us talking about, and I'm not gonna name 80 00:03:00,286 --> 00:03:04,146 the company, but even us talking about a, an external- person that we use. 81 00:03:04,156 --> 00:03:06,676 Yeah Uh, we're both using his business, and both of us are having 82 00:03:06,676 --> 00:03:07,836 different experiences with it. 83 00:03:08,226 --> 00:03:09,296 I'm absolutely loving it. 84 00:03:09,296 --> 00:03:11,356 There are things that you'd wanna change- Yeah … which is totally 85 00:03:11,356 --> 00:03:14,816 fine, but the process and the workflow is exactly the same. 86 00:03:14,845 --> 00:03:15,065 Yeah. 87 00:03:15,065 --> 00:03:17,666 A h- and that's the thing, and I think that's what's important. 88 00:03:17,666 --> 00:03:21,366 We wanna b- we just wanna, we want you as a listener to get more out 89 00:03:21,366 --> 00:03:24,795 of what you're listening to than us waffling on on some technical jargon. 90 00:03:24,795 --> 00:03:28,016 We want something tangible that you can take away and potentially 91 00:03:28,076 --> 00:03:28,905 implement in your business. 92 00:03:28,906 --> 00:03:31,655 But also I think if you're an architect or a consultant, you're 93 00:03:31,656 --> 00:03:35,265 gonna understand more how builders operate, and we wanna investigate how 94 00:03:35,266 --> 00:03:38,176 you guys operate so we can understand what we can do better to assist you. 95 00:03:38,176 --> 00:03:38,545 Yeah. 96 00:03:38,545 --> 00:03:40,495 I think it's everyone knowing their role. 97 00:03:40,496 --> 00:03:44,006 Like, we look at sport at the moment, everyone plays a role, especially in AFL. 98 00:03:44,016 --> 00:03:44,295 Like- Oh, 99 00:03:44,356 --> 00:03:45,155 look at the Melbourne Football Club. 100 00:03:45,165 --> 00:03:45,425 Yeah. 101 00:03:45,426 --> 00:03:45,576 Yeah. 102 00:03:45,576 --> 00:03:46,396 Everyone knows their role- 103 00:03:46,396 --> 00:03:46,895 Yeah … better, don't they? 104 00:03:46,895 --> 00:03:49,155 And I th- and I think that's a really important thing, and it's something 105 00:03:49,156 --> 00:03:52,176 that's in my early documentation, is, like, who's responsible for what? 106 00:03:52,625 --> 00:03:56,615 Um, whilst we build a house, we, we don't comment on design, and these 107 00:03:56,615 --> 00:03:58,035 are the conversations I wanna have. 108 00:03:58,475 --> 00:04:04,695 But today's topic, uh, it's picking your client, and it's a really interesting 109 00:04:05,135 --> 00:04:09,216 conversation because the biggest thing that I hear from builders and, 110 00:04:09,225 --> 00:04:12,735 uh, architects and, "Oh, the client sucks" and, "Oh, we just don't get 111 00:04:12,736 --> 00:04:14,585 along," I think that's a you problem. 112 00:04:14,836 --> 00:04:15,455 Oh, 100%. 113 00:04:15,455 --> 00:04:16,688 I think that's a you problem. 114 00:04:16,688 --> 00:04:17,175 Uh, I, I think that's not a client problem. 115 00:04:17,175 --> 00:04:18,236 I think that's a you problem. 116 00:04:18,615 --> 00:04:22,555 And I have the best relationships with my clients and I, I haven't 117 00:04:22,556 --> 00:04:25,985 had, there's been in the past of some jobs that I haven't had the greatest 118 00:04:25,986 --> 00:04:28,206 relationships with them, um, before. 119 00:04:28,206 --> 00:04:30,665 I was like maybe 10 years ago that, and it's 'cause I didn't know what 120 00:04:30,666 --> 00:04:33,725 I didn't know, and it was a lack of process, a lack of lack of structure. 121 00:04:33,736 --> 00:04:33,756 Yeah. 122 00:04:34,045 --> 00:04:38,106 But what I know now is we get so many amazing clients that they just keep 123 00:04:38,106 --> 00:04:39,575 setting the benchmark for the next client. 124 00:04:40,035 --> 00:04:40,335 Yeah. 125 00:04:40,336 --> 00:04:42,985 And I think it's also important too to understand that, um, 126 00:04:42,995 --> 00:04:45,995 most people like structure. 127 00:04:46,635 --> 00:04:46,855 Yeah. 128 00:04:46,855 --> 00:04:51,195 And if you're a young builder and you don't have a really well-structured 129 00:04:51,215 --> 00:04:55,715 ECI or early involvement or pre-construction process, of course 130 00:04:55,715 --> 00:04:56,755 the client's gonna get annoyed. 131 00:04:56,985 --> 00:04:58,775 Of course the client's gonna be confused- 132 00:04:58,975 --> 00:04:59,175 Yeah 133 00:04:59,215 --> 00:05:01,095 … because you're not setting the expectation. 134 00:05:01,656 --> 00:05:02,455 Like- You're the, you're the expert 135 00:05:02,495 --> 00:05:05,725 … you're the expert here, so, you know, your clients are looking to you to 136 00:05:05,725 --> 00:05:07,215 understand what the next steps are. 137 00:05:07,545 --> 00:05:10,556 So I challenge anyone that's listening to this episode now, have a really 138 00:05:10,556 --> 00:05:15,836 good think about what the workflow is in your pre-construction process. 139 00:05:15,916 --> 00:05:16,116 Yep. 140 00:05:16,356 --> 00:05:18,215 ' Cause you need to then be able to communicate that really 141 00:05:18,215 --> 00:05:19,235 clearly to your clients. 142 00:05:19,246 --> 00:05:22,035 So one of the first things we do, we have, someone fills out a form 143 00:05:22,035 --> 00:05:25,215 on our website, they get a reply instantly for a second form to fill 144 00:05:25,215 --> 00:05:26,205 out that's a lot more detailed. 145 00:05:26,666 --> 00:05:28,405 There's two important questions I have on there. 146 00:05:28,496 --> 00:05:29,476 Have you built before? 147 00:05:30,086 --> 00:05:32,295 If it's a no, they know nothing about building. 148 00:05:32,306 --> 00:05:32,326 Yeah. 149 00:05:32,526 --> 00:05:34,056 And that's so okay. 150 00:05:34,545 --> 00:05:37,545 Um, I think that's a really, really good question to ask because 151 00:05:37,545 --> 00:05:41,558 what it does is you- You, you know, you know where they sit. 152 00:05:41,598 --> 00:05:43,968 If they've built before, they might have a little bit more understanding, 153 00:05:44,278 --> 00:05:46,518 um, if they've built three or four times, why are they finding 154 00:05:46,528 --> 00:05:47,558 a different builder each time? 155 00:05:47,558 --> 00:05:47,578 Yeah. 156 00:05:47,968 --> 00:05:49,618 Is it, you can find out more there. 157 00:05:49,888 --> 00:05:53,818 But ultimately, I wanna know that, uh, what level you sit on so we can 158 00:05:53,818 --> 00:05:56,017 have a really good conversation, so we can start to educate you. 159 00:05:56,018 --> 00:05:59,558 Because if I go into any other industry, if I went into marketing 160 00:05:59,558 --> 00:06:03,287 or, um, medical or whatever, I don't know what they're meant to do. 161 00:06:03,338 --> 00:06:04,187 That's not my job. 162 00:06:04,198 --> 00:06:05,287 That's, they're, they're the experts. 163 00:06:05,297 --> 00:06:08,567 So I think when people come to you, you're the experts, and you need, you need to 164 00:06:08,578 --> 00:06:11,377 take them on the ride and it's, and it's, and it's an emotional ride, building. 165 00:06:11,868 --> 00:06:15,578 And, and r- asking that, we, we've got that question on our form as 166 00:06:15,578 --> 00:06:19,827 well, and asking them questions has another layer to it as well. 167 00:06:20,087 --> 00:06:21,277 Because if they have built before- 168 00:06:21,298 --> 00:06:21,548 Yeah 169 00:06:21,737 --> 00:06:23,047 … ask about what their experience was. 170 00:06:23,078 --> 00:06:23,468 Yes. 171 00:06:23,657 --> 00:06:25,047 What you liked, what you didn't like. 172 00:06:25,078 --> 00:06:25,718 Exactly. 173 00:06:25,727 --> 00:06:28,728 You know, if it was really good, then ask the question, why aren't 174 00:06:28,728 --> 00:06:29,537 you using the other builder? 175 00:06:29,587 --> 00:06:31,868 And there might be reasons that they don't build anymore- Yeah … or, you 176 00:06:31,868 --> 00:06:33,197 know, they moved to the state or whatever. 177 00:06:33,578 --> 00:06:38,397 But if they've had a bad experience, understanding what the pain points were- 178 00:06:38,717 --> 00:06:38,857 Yeah 179 00:06:41,166 --> 00:06:45,156 Trying to, well not, not convince it, but ed- then educate the clients around 180 00:06:45,156 --> 00:06:46,836 how you're then gonna run your process. 181 00:06:46,846 --> 00:06:47,156 Yeah. 182 00:06:47,176 --> 00:06:50,216 I always ask the question once, well, further down the track, what scares you 183 00:06:50,216 --> 00:06:51,516 the most about working with a builder? 184 00:06:51,786 --> 00:06:52,046 Yeah. 185 00:06:52,166 --> 00:06:55,215 And you can get some really good answers out of that because if they've had a 186 00:06:55,345 --> 00:06:58,676 previous builder and they've, there's problems that they've had wrong, like you 187 00:06:58,676 --> 00:07:00,086 wanna know that so you can cater to them. 188 00:07:00,086 --> 00:07:03,356 And sometimes you g- might be like, "Actually no, that builder was probably 189 00:07:03,356 --> 00:07:04,985 on, right. You might've been wrong." 190 00:07:05,035 --> 00:07:05,255 Yeah. 191 00:07:05,305 --> 00:07:08,755 But you at least can set an expectation early because like anything you go into, 192 00:07:08,805 --> 00:07:13,016 any relationship or any form of, anything you do in life and the moment you walk 193 00:07:13,016 --> 00:07:14,306 in, the first impression is everything. 194 00:07:14,495 --> 00:07:14,655 Yeah. 195 00:07:14,655 --> 00:07:18,115 So you want, you wanna, you wanna provide that to the client, so, um- 196 00:07:18,125 --> 00:07:21,205 You, just before we move on, you, you touched on something, you, you brought 197 00:07:21,206 --> 00:07:25,195 something up there really quickly that maybe they were in the wrong. 198 00:07:25,396 --> 00:07:25,596 Yeah. 199 00:07:25,596 --> 00:07:27,525 I think it's really important- Yeah … to call out because 200 00:07:27,526 --> 00:07:29,065 it's setting expectations. 201 00:07:29,125 --> 00:07:29,365 Yeah. 202 00:07:29,896 --> 00:07:33,305 Uh, 'cause sometimes when, you know, clients, clients are clients, 203 00:07:33,335 --> 00:07:35,766 and we're very much like you. 204 00:07:35,776 --> 00:07:41,375 We've got these amazing relationships with clients, um, and ongoing post 205 00:07:41,385 --> 00:07:44,275 project- Yeah … relationship with the clients because we're setting, 206 00:07:44,905 --> 00:07:47,655 well, I think we're getting better at setting clear expectations. 207 00:07:47,655 --> 00:07:49,205 We're getting better at communicating. 208 00:07:50,066 --> 00:07:50,845 There's a process. 209 00:07:50,855 --> 00:07:53,525 Because, but there's a process around it, and really understanding 210 00:07:53,526 --> 00:07:54,705 what the pain points were. 211 00:07:54,846 --> 00:07:55,066 Yeah. 212 00:07:55,155 --> 00:08:00,445 And then re-educating or educating the clients from day one is so important. 213 00:08:00,505 --> 00:08:04,895 Set the expectation that you are there as the expert, that you know the 214 00:08:04,895 --> 00:08:08,395 answers, that you're going to guide them through this pre-construction process. 215 00:08:08,425 --> 00:08:09,005 And this is hard. 216 00:08:09,005 --> 00:08:12,375 If you're starting out for the first time running a business, this is any 217 00:08:12,375 --> 00:08:17,835 business really in the world that's some form of consulting or, um, client-facing. 218 00:08:18,375 --> 00:08:20,245 That, I put you into two baskets. 219 00:08:20,276 --> 00:08:22,276 You're starting a business, you don't wanna lose that client, so 220 00:08:22,276 --> 00:08:24,455 you do everything to please them, and you're gonna do stupid things. 221 00:08:24,615 --> 00:08:28,046 I've done it before, Hamish has done it before, and you are going 222 00:08:28,046 --> 00:08:29,855 to lose control at one point. 223 00:08:30,486 --> 00:08:32,282 Could I, can I s- uh, a little bit- And I've done it. 224 00:08:32,282 --> 00:08:35,405 I'm, I'm gonna give you a little bit of an anecdotal, um, example here. 225 00:08:35,405 --> 00:08:38,665 So I was on the phone to someone, I'm not gonna say who they are, and I 226 00:08:38,685 --> 00:08:39,925 think they listen to this podcast- Yeah 227 00:08:39,935 --> 00:08:42,125 so they're gonna know that I'm talking about them. 228 00:08:42,905 --> 00:08:45,055 Uh- We should just name names. 229 00:08:45,065 --> 00:08:45,625 No, I'm not going to. 230 00:08:45,625 --> 00:08:45,853 The podcast that names names. 231 00:08:45,853 --> 00:08:46,035 I'm not going to. 232 00:08:46,035 --> 00:08:48,435 Um, young builder, a great fellow. 233 00:08:48,435 --> 00:08:49,865 I know he's a good carpenter. 234 00:08:49,966 --> 00:08:50,186 Yeah. 235 00:08:50,225 --> 00:08:53,435 Um, you know, just on this journey as be- as being a, being a builder, and 236 00:08:53,436 --> 00:08:58,696 he's asking me questions around, um, the flat roof system for Pro Clima. 237 00:08:59,516 --> 00:08:59,536 Yeah. 238 00:08:59,636 --> 00:09:01,775 And I just, I was unpacking the project a little bit more. 239 00:09:01,915 --> 00:09:02,735 I'm like, "Okay, cool. 240 00:09:02,746 --> 00:09:05,846 So it's just going into a box gutter into a parapet?" "Yes." "Okay, cool. 241 00:09:05,846 --> 00:09:08,645 Well, there's the thing that you probably want to think about." And 242 00:09:08,645 --> 00:09:11,605 then I'm like, "Okay, well this sounds like a really nice architectural home. 243 00:09:11,606 --> 00:09:12,356 What's the budget?" 244 00:09:13,035 --> 00:09:16,955 And he's like, "900,000." I'm like, "Okay, how big is it?" "270 squares." Oh, 245 00:09:17,125 --> 00:09:17,585 geez. 246 00:09:17,665 --> 00:09:22,606 And I'm like, "Okay, so that's a $1.5 to $1.6 million project. Uh, I actually 247 00:09:22,625 --> 00:09:26,918 think that you're solving the wrong problem right now." Like, you're trying 248 00:09:26,918 --> 00:09:31,618 to solve a, a, a technical problem, which assumes that you've costed the 249 00:09:31,618 --> 00:09:37,348 project first, that assumes that you're quite down the path of an ACI process. 250 00:09:37,807 --> 00:09:39,708 You're actually solving the wrong problem right now. 251 00:09:40,118 --> 00:09:43,517 Like, all of that stuff can get solved later, but the question that you need 252 00:09:43,518 --> 00:09:47,368 to be asking your client right now is, how much do they wanna spend? 253 00:09:47,648 --> 00:09:50,978 Because right now, their $900,000 budget's not gonna touch the side of this building. 254 00:09:50,978 --> 00:09:52,127 And you've jumped the process there. 255 00:09:52,127 --> 00:09:52,488 You've jumped 256 00:09:52,777 --> 00:09:54,497 the process there. 257 00:09:54,497 --> 00:09:54,539 You're excited. 258 00:09:54,539 --> 00:09:54,551 Yeah. 259 00:09:54,551 --> 00:09:54,610 And that's why they're so, 260 00:09:54,610 --> 00:09:54,646 they're so normal. 261 00:09:54,646 --> 00:09:55,858 Yeah, and I said exactly the same thing. 262 00:09:55,867 --> 00:09:56,488 You're excited. 263 00:09:56,578 --> 00:10:00,337 And I only bring that up because setting expectations from the beginning with 264 00:10:00,338 --> 00:10:04,157 clients is really important, and if you don't feel that you can or have 265 00:10:04,158 --> 00:10:07,587 really candid conversations with a client from day one, then they're 266 00:10:07,588 --> 00:10:08,708 not gonna be the client for you. 267 00:10:08,998 --> 00:10:11,808 Yeah, and, and, and w- which leads me to my point is, like, don't be 268 00:10:11,818 --> 00:10:13,078 afraid to walk away and say no. 269 00:10:13,078 --> 00:10:13,477 Exactly. 270 00:10:13,478 --> 00:10:13,628 Yeah, 271 00:10:13,628 --> 00:10:13,917 yeah. 272 00:10:13,917 --> 00:10:16,778 Because, well, and, and I joke with clients, as much as a client 273 00:10:16,948 --> 00:10:18,207 picks us, we also pick them. 274 00:10:18,277 --> 00:10:18,477 Yeah. 275 00:10:18,547 --> 00:10:20,127 And it's, and it's like any relationship. 276 00:10:20,158 --> 00:10:21,337 You, it's gotta be mutual. 277 00:10:21,338 --> 00:10:23,437 It should never be one way and, um, 278 00:10:24,408 --> 00:10:26,728 uh- Well, just on that, I know I've talked to you about this before. 279 00:10:26,787 --> 00:10:29,487 In my, at the start of my ACI, there's this, you know, couple of 280 00:10:29,518 --> 00:10:32,767 nice little words at the beginning of it, and then it says, uh, "And 281 00:10:32,767 --> 00:10:34,617 we have a no dickhead policy." Yeah. 282 00:10:34,977 --> 00:10:37,987 "Congratulations, you're not a dickhead." And, and it's true, 'cause 283 00:10:37,987 --> 00:10:42,347 I, I don't wanna be waking up every morning dreading dealing or, or, or 284 00:10:42,367 --> 00:10:44,797 having conversations with clients, 'cause not only are we dealing with 285 00:10:44,797 --> 00:10:48,787 them during the design process, during construction, but for 10 years after. 286 00:10:48,818 --> 00:10:51,377 You got them, you've got them in your hand for 15 years. 287 00:10:51,377 --> 00:10:51,597 Yeah. 288 00:10:51,657 --> 00:10:55,347 Like, we just had one we finished, two years pre-construction, two years on site- 289 00:10:55,347 --> 00:10:55,567 Yeah 290 00:10:55,727 --> 00:10:56,538 … now 10 years sign-off. 291 00:10:56,538 --> 00:10:56,728 Yeah. 292 00:10:56,867 --> 00:10:58,337 So you need to look at it. 293 00:10:58,358 --> 00:11:00,787 The, the 15 years is a huge amount of time. 294 00:11:01,148 --> 00:11:07,348 Um, and I think that- I- it's really important to be able to develop that 295 00:11:07,348 --> 00:11:10,508 relationship with the client where you can laugh, you can cry, you can show 296 00:11:10,508 --> 00:11:12,428 emotion, you can have hard conversations. 297 00:11:13,128 --> 00:11:16,418 Um, I, I think that's, I think that's something where I've learned over time, 298 00:11:16,418 --> 00:11:20,864 is saying, saying no's literally one of the most powerful things you can do. 299 00:11:20,864 --> 00:11:21,087 Absolutely. 300 00:11:21,087 --> 00:11:21,267 Yeah. 301 00:11:21,277 --> 00:11:23,918 And even if you had a contract you're about to sign, and I've done it before 302 00:11:23,918 --> 00:11:27,117 myself because I was, had an amazing job with the same situation and I'm 303 00:11:27,117 --> 00:11:31,367 like, "I'm out," because one, I saw issues with the contract, I just 304 00:11:31,378 --> 00:11:32,798 felt the client trust wasn't there. 305 00:11:33,027 --> 00:11:33,237 Yeah. 306 00:11:33,238 --> 00:11:37,157 And ultimately it's the best decision I've nearly made as a business because, uh, I 307 00:11:37,157 --> 00:11:40,427 knew that I would've had a higher level of anxiety, my team wouldn't have wanted 308 00:11:40,438 --> 00:11:45,287 to be there, then everything starts to drop and fall, and ultimately it could 309 00:11:45,288 --> 00:11:47,037 have been gone back to start and said no. 310 00:11:47,067 --> 00:11:47,087 Yeah. 311 00:11:47,087 --> 00:11:49,308 And, and- And applied to another job and failed 312 00:11:49,308 --> 00:11:53,167 and it unravels really quickly- Yeah … uh, during construction, 313 00:11:53,168 --> 00:11:54,317 particularly towards the end- 314 00:11:54,317 --> 00:11:54,577 Yeah 315 00:11:54,628 --> 00:11:57,727 … when relationships are really strongly frayed. 316 00:11:57,828 --> 00:11:58,108 Yeah. 317 00:11:58,477 --> 00:11:58,867 Um- 318 00:11:58,898 --> 00:12:02,848 And, and legislation has now changed in Victoria where it's consumer first. 319 00:12:02,848 --> 00:12:07,017 So as of July 1, the, they can bypass you for a defect and go straight 320 00:12:07,017 --> 00:12:08,648 to the DPC to investigate you. 321 00:12:08,808 --> 00:12:11,967 So relationships matter more- More … than ever. 322 00:12:12,028 --> 00:12:12,957 One, 100%. 323 00:12:13,677 --> 00:12:17,117 And just on that, if the, if a client ever calls you about a 324 00:12:17,388 --> 00:12:20,098 defect, pick up the phone and get around there as soon as possible, 325 00:12:20,377 --> 00:12:21,798 regardless if it's your fault or not. 326 00:12:21,798 --> 00:12:22,077 Yeah. 327 00:12:22,168 --> 00:12:22,757 Just t- fuck 328 00:12:22,757 --> 00:12:22,998 you, send 329 00:12:22,998 --> 00:12:23,087 me 330 00:12:23,087 --> 00:12:23,367 photos 331 00:12:23,367 --> 00:12:24,768 on it, we'll know- You, you, you want to be there straightaway. 332 00:12:25,087 --> 00:12:28,417 Hey, Matty, I've been talking to a few people recently, and they're like, 333 00:12:28,427 --> 00:12:32,148 "You know what? You've been building with Pro- Proclima for years. Like, 334 00:12:32,148 --> 00:12:33,378 how do we get to where you are?" 335 00:12:33,918 --> 00:12:36,587 So we all started at level zero at one point, and we got there. 336 00:12:36,847 --> 00:12:39,667 But one of the things that Proclima have on their website is they have 337 00:12:39,668 --> 00:12:44,267 a library of so many details, from wall to roof to subfloor to window 338 00:12:44,267 --> 00:12:47,947 assemblies, for multiple different windows, on how to use their product 339 00:12:47,988 --> 00:12:51,788 and install it correctly, and is one of the, the best resources that you can 340 00:12:51,788 --> 00:12:53,907 find online to learn how to do this. 341 00:12:53,907 --> 00:12:56,207 And if you're an architect and you're not sure how to draw something, they've 342 00:12:56,207 --> 00:12:57,287 probably got the answer already. 343 00:12:57,317 --> 00:13:01,828 And I think about, you know, 2018, 2019 when we've, we, we first started 344 00:13:01,857 --> 00:13:05,707 getting into this, we had to trawl through all kinds of different documents. 345 00:13:05,707 --> 00:13:05,867 We had to 346 00:13:05,867 --> 00:13:06,277 make it up. 347 00:13:06,277 --> 00:13:07,667 We, we, we had to make it up. 348 00:13:08,427 --> 00:13:09,188 It's all there for 349 00:13:09,188 --> 00:13:09,327 you. 350 00:13:09,327 --> 00:13:09,347 Yeah. 351 00:13:09,357 --> 00:13:10,417 The answers are free now. 352 00:13:10,457 --> 00:13:14,528 And social media's great, there's so many awesome videos and content 353 00:13:14,528 --> 00:13:17,258 out there, but the ultimate source of truth is the Proclima website. 354 00:13:17,267 --> 00:13:19,267 They have every single detail that you can imagine. 355 00:13:19,297 --> 00:13:19,858 And you know what? 356 00:13:20,147 --> 00:13:23,057 If they don't have it, you can email them and they'll help you solve it. 357 00:13:23,117 --> 00:13:23,527 Damn right. 358 00:13:23,528 --> 00:13:27,247 So use Proclima, proclima.com.au if you need to reach out to them. 359 00:13:33,784 --> 00:13:36,574 Hey, I'm about to go on a journey with systems, and I'm working 360 00:13:36,574 --> 00:13:40,194 with James from BizTech Guru, who he was a guest on our podcast 361 00:13:40,234 --> 00:13:43,504 He was, and I've actually done a lot of work with James in the past, and 362 00:13:43,574 --> 00:13:49,223 it has transformed my business from just being this classic clusterfuck 363 00:13:49,234 --> 00:13:52,833 of a building company to a systems orientated focused business And 364 00:13:52,844 --> 00:13:55,324 what he's, from understanding, it's all focused on builders Yep 365 00:13:55,333 --> 00:13:59,014 And we're going to be doing a live webinar with him coming up- Yep 366 00:13:59,104 --> 00:14:02,733 as part of this, and it's gonna be a big introduction to systems and 367 00:14:03,024 --> 00:14:04,253 how it can improve your business 368 00:14:04,274 --> 00:14:05,064 And you know the beauty about it? 369 00:14:05,114 --> 00:14:06,934 It is gonna be absolutely free. 370 00:14:06,954 --> 00:14:09,854 Yeah So keep an eye out for the dates. 371 00:14:09,884 --> 00:14:14,363 Uh, this is gonna be a really incredibly valuable workshop to not miss out on 372 00:14:14,384 --> 00:14:19,053 Yeah, so either shoot us a DM, um, check the show notes, but we'll put a link 373 00:14:19,053 --> 00:14:20,843 below here to show you how to sign up. 374 00:14:20,983 --> 00:14:22,393 So- Cheers … make sure you sign up 375 00:14:28,622 --> 00:14:29,541 I'm gonna ask you a question. 376 00:14:29,551 --> 00:14:32,742 What are some of the things that you look for in clients? 377 00:14:32,791 --> 00:14:36,502 Um, it's hard because I have- I'm a very gut-feel person. 378 00:14:36,512 --> 00:14:36,531 Yeah. 379 00:14:36,612 --> 00:14:40,602 I'll, so for my process, for example, is I, you'll send a 380 00:14:40,602 --> 00:14:42,232 form, I'll send you a form back. 381 00:14:42,242 --> 00:14:46,041 Within that form is embedded i- is a link to book in a 15-minute chat 382 00:14:46,041 --> 00:14:47,752 with me that's linked to my calendar. 383 00:14:48,091 --> 00:14:49,386 I just jump on the phone and have a chat. 384 00:14:49,386 --> 00:14:49,681 Yeah. 385 00:14:49,681 --> 00:14:50,751 That is the first thing. 386 00:14:50,862 --> 00:14:54,681 Within the first 20 seconds, I can gauge if you're for me or not, just, 387 00:14:54,882 --> 00:14:59,651 just the conversation and, um, the way that you, the… It's not body 388 00:14:59,651 --> 00:15:02,261 language 'cause you're not in person, but the, the, the tone of the voice. 389 00:15:02,261 --> 00:15:02,451 Yeah. 390 00:15:03,201 --> 00:15:06,122 That, that is a big thing for me, and at that point I'm like, "Cool. 391 00:15:06,122 --> 00:15:08,631 Yes, no." There's another, a few other metrics, like location. 392 00:15:08,631 --> 00:15:10,041 Is it high performance? 393 00:15:10,401 --> 00:15:13,901 Uh, the loca- yeah, location, um, budget. 394 00:15:13,911 --> 00:15:16,751 Those, those sort of things need to tick, and let's ignore those for a second. 395 00:15:17,161 --> 00:15:20,191 But the second part, once you get past that meeting there, they will get a 396 00:15:20,192 --> 00:15:22,301 link to book in a coffee near my office. 397 00:15:22,301 --> 00:15:24,872 They come to me, and we sit down and have a coffee for half hour, 398 00:15:24,872 --> 00:15:29,581 45 minutes, and that is simply a… It's not about the project. 399 00:15:29,641 --> 00:15:30,351 I wanna know you. 400 00:15:30,401 --> 00:15:31,322 I call it the first date. 401 00:15:31,771 --> 00:15:34,031 Um, it's actually, I think it's booked in, this is my calendar, 402 00:15:34,031 --> 00:15:35,091 it says, like, our first date. 403 00:15:35,291 --> 00:15:39,321 So I wanna know you because as, as… I need to know you're a person. 404 00:15:39,342 --> 00:15:41,122 Like, bring the kids, both of you. 405 00:15:41,141 --> 00:15:43,971 Anyone that's, the stakeholders involved in the project need to be there, not 406 00:15:44,022 --> 00:15:45,691 just the husband or just the wife. 407 00:15:45,692 --> 00:15:48,601 I want everyone because I don't build for one person in a 408 00:15:48,601 --> 00:15:49,861 relationship, I build for two. 409 00:15:50,101 --> 00:15:54,971 And, and is there, is there certain, uh, I guess, personality traits or, 410 00:15:55,001 --> 00:15:56,671 uh, job traits that you're looking for? 411 00:15:56,671 --> 00:15:58,161 Yeah, don't tell me how to do my job. 412 00:15:58,592 --> 00:16:01,121 So I, that, that you can get… When someone's telling me how I've 413 00:16:01,122 --> 00:16:03,411 built before, "I've done this and this is how you're gonna do it," and 414 00:16:03,801 --> 00:16:04,771 I'm always like, "Hey, slow down. 415 00:16:04,872 --> 00:16:06,122 Like, you've come to me for a reason. 416 00:16:07,151 --> 00:16:10,581 We're not there yet, but I'll take control of that." And if they keep 417 00:16:10,581 --> 00:16:12,771 pushing on that, I'll, it's a red flag. 418 00:16:12,771 --> 00:16:16,862 I've, I've literally had a meeting before as a coffee, halfway through it, I've 419 00:16:16,862 --> 00:16:19,342 gone, "Hmm, I just don't think you're for us. I'm just gonna call it now," 420 00:16:19,342 --> 00:16:23,451 and got the bill and left because they, they, I just didn't warm to them and- 421 00:16:23,482 --> 00:16:25,491 Yeah … I already felt anxious, so. 422 00:16:25,721 --> 00:16:28,791 It's really important as well because, like, I, I like to think about, 423 00:16:28,831 --> 00:16:32,811 um, the pre-construction phase as the relationship building phase. 424 00:16:32,982 --> 00:16:33,601 It's dating. 425 00:16:33,721 --> 00:16:33,961 Yeah. 426 00:16:34,131 --> 00:16:34,581 Yeah. 427 00:16:34,581 --> 00:16:37,831 It's, it's, it dating, and, and you get to test the relationship- 428 00:16:37,851 --> 00:16:38,541 Yeah … along the way. 429 00:16:38,771 --> 00:16:38,941 Yeah. 430 00:16:38,971 --> 00:16:43,259 For us, the first test is that- Uh, do they fill the application form out? 431 00:16:43,259 --> 00:16:43,444 Yeah, 432 00:16:43,444 --> 00:16:45,324 they don't want to go home and sleep with him on the first date. 433 00:16:45,324 --> 00:16:49,944 Well, 'Cause if, 'cause if, i- in my experience, if someone's 434 00:16:49,944 --> 00:16:51,554 pushing back on filling out a form- 435 00:16:51,764 --> 00:16:52,293 Yeah, I- 436 00:16:52,384 --> 00:16:53,634 then it's gonna be challenging. 437 00:16:53,644 --> 00:16:56,144 So, so but the thing is, you can't not do that with me. 438 00:16:56,764 --> 00:16:58,783 Um, you have to fill the form to get to me. 439 00:16:59,014 --> 00:16:59,284 Yeah. 440 00:16:59,344 --> 00:17:02,813 So and even if you have people call office number and we'll direct 441 00:17:02,813 --> 00:17:04,293 them to the website to fill it out. 442 00:17:04,303 --> 00:17:04,323 Yeah. 443 00:17:04,633 --> 00:17:08,534 Um, architects, yeah, we'll direct you to, uh… Look, that can be a little 444 00:17:08,534 --> 00:17:12,503 bit challenging at times because I need the client to fill it out and 445 00:17:12,543 --> 00:17:15,633 understand that the architects have a process, and we do try fitting with 446 00:17:15,634 --> 00:17:18,513 the architect process, and that's where it can become a little bit murky, but 447 00:17:18,524 --> 00:17:20,144 ultimately we need that form filled out. 448 00:17:20,314 --> 00:17:23,174 It's one so we can put it on our CRM system- I, I don't- … so we can track it 449 00:17:23,253 --> 00:17:25,263 … I don't mind if the architect fills it out. 450 00:17:25,283 --> 00:17:26,053 However- 451 00:17:26,103 --> 00:17:26,293 Yeah 452 00:17:26,293 --> 00:17:28,903 … the, the, the phone call is with the client. 453 00:17:28,923 --> 00:17:29,443 Yeah, yeah. 454 00:17:29,443 --> 00:17:30,323 I have to speak to them. 455 00:17:30,344 --> 00:17:30,454 Yeah. 456 00:17:30,993 --> 00:17:31,233 Yeah. 457 00:17:31,503 --> 00:17:31,683 100%. 458 00:17:31,733 --> 00:17:34,804 I'm, I, I, if I'm, if you're a client, another thing, probably 459 00:17:34,804 --> 00:17:35,503 one of the biggest things- 460 00:17:35,813 --> 00:17:38,123 if you're a client and you want me just to hand over the key at 461 00:17:38,123 --> 00:17:41,193 the end of the project, you're not gonna be there, I'm not for you. 462 00:17:41,204 --> 00:17:41,224 Yeah. 463 00:17:41,553 --> 00:17:43,413 Like, I wanna become part of your family. 464 00:17:43,723 --> 00:17:47,853 So, uh, I want you to know my family, know who my wife is, 465 00:17:47,853 --> 00:17:49,703 and my kid, uh, and the dog. 466 00:17:49,713 --> 00:17:51,314 Mm. And like, I want you to know those sort of things. 467 00:17:51,323 --> 00:17:54,944 So we, we're just, and, and this is not to exclude anyone else that doesn't 468 00:17:55,073 --> 00:17:59,123 fit into this kind of perfect avatar client of mine, but I've actually, in 469 00:17:59,123 --> 00:18:04,983 the past, some of my best clients have been either business owners, so busy 470 00:18:05,133 --> 00:18:07,394 business owners, or medical professionals. 471 00:18:07,463 --> 00:18:08,413 Oh, I love lawyers. 472 00:18:08,834 --> 00:18:09,723 Lawyers are my favorite. 473 00:18:09,764 --> 00:18:11,224 Well, so b- busy professionals- Yeah. 474 00:18:11,224 --> 00:18:13,944 Yeah … busy, busy business owners or medical professionals. 475 00:18:13,944 --> 00:18:18,113 I just find that, um, generally speaking, and again, I've got plenty of other 476 00:18:18,113 --> 00:18:20,763 clients- Yeah, yeah … that don't fit into this category, so please don't think 477 00:18:20,764 --> 00:18:25,473 that if you don't then, um, that, that we're, we're, we're not a builder for you. 478 00:18:25,483 --> 00:18:29,503 It's more I'm speaking to the builders out there who are listening 479 00:18:29,503 --> 00:18:30,623 to this and following along. 480 00:18:30,633 --> 00:18:30,653 Yeah. 481 00:18:30,993 --> 00:18:35,293 That I think it's really important that you figure out what your avatar is. 482 00:18:35,373 --> 00:18:35,593 Yeah. 483 00:18:35,593 --> 00:18:37,863 ' Cause then you can train your marketing to that a little bit more. 484 00:18:37,864 --> 00:18:38,813 100% agree. 485 00:18:38,823 --> 00:18:42,363 So, you know, if I say to myself, "All right, well, I want to be 486 00:18:42,364 --> 00:18:43,853 focusing on surgeons," right? 487 00:18:43,853 --> 00:18:44,153 Right. 488 00:18:44,154 --> 00:18:46,993 Because they're busy, they, they get health, they- Cash 489 00:18:46,993 --> 00:18:49,410 cows I didn't say that, you did. 490 00:18:49,860 --> 00:18:52,060 Um, yeah, and look, budget's a thing too. 491 00:18:52,060 --> 00:18:52,379 No, no, yeah, yeah. 492 00:18:52,430 --> 00:18:53,770 But budget is a thing too. 493 00:18:53,770 --> 00:18:53,810 I'll just be realistic. 494 00:18:53,810 --> 00:18:56,120 Yeah, that's fine, but I'm, maybe I'm not as explicit as that. 495 00:18:56,120 --> 00:18:56,445 No, 496 00:18:56,445 --> 00:18:56,770 exactly. 497 00:18:56,770 --> 00:19:01,200 Um, but you know, they're busy, they're conscientious, um, and they also 498 00:19:01,200 --> 00:19:03,939 trust in the fact that we're- Experts 499 00:19:04,020 --> 00:19:04,300 experts. 500 00:19:04,579 --> 00:19:04,879 Yeah. 501 00:19:05,250 --> 00:19:08,120 Uh, and again, if you're a client out there, please don't think that 502 00:19:08,120 --> 00:19:10,219 I'm not gonna build for you if you don't fit into this category. 503 00:19:10,219 --> 00:19:13,050 We're just finding in our experience- Yeah … some of the best clients 504 00:19:13,050 --> 00:19:18,410 we've had are busy professionals, medical professionals, who understand 505 00:19:18,840 --> 00:19:20,084 and val- and value- It's, yeah 506 00:19:20,084 --> 00:19:20,830 and value time. 507 00:19:20,880 --> 00:19:21,160 Yeah. 508 00:19:21,220 --> 00:19:22,599 That's the other big thing for me. 509 00:19:23,069 --> 00:19:27,069 Um, yeah, as, I'm just more speaking to the, the builders out there trying to sort 510 00:19:27,069 --> 00:19:28,939 of work out who their ideal client is. 511 00:19:28,959 --> 00:19:30,140 Get that down on paper. 512 00:19:30,149 --> 00:19:31,859 Who are some of the people that you've- Yeah … dealt with in the 513 00:19:31,860 --> 00:19:35,710 past who were awesome, and what are the characteristics of that? 514 00:19:36,000 --> 00:19:37,939 And how can you tailor your marketing to that? 515 00:19:38,009 --> 00:19:38,239 Yeah. 516 00:19:38,239 --> 00:19:41,179 And I, and that's something that I did years ago- … and 517 00:19:41,180 --> 00:19:42,470 still continue to tweak on. 518 00:19:42,470 --> 00:19:45,730 So you wanna look at location because most- Totally agree … you don't wanna 519 00:19:45,930 --> 00:19:47,090 be travelling all across Victoria. 520 00:19:47,090 --> 00:19:47,390 Locations, 521 00:19:47,560 --> 00:19:48,550 lo- location. 522 00:19:48,560 --> 00:19:48,640 Locations. 523 00:19:48,709 --> 00:19:51,489 Um, you wanna look at, like, age demographic. 524 00:19:51,489 --> 00:19:55,210 Like, there's no point marketing towards a 21-year-old because most likely, 525 00:19:55,380 --> 00:19:58,239 unless they're a crypto king, they're not gonna be building anytime soon. 526 00:19:58,369 --> 00:19:58,579 Yep. 527 00:19:58,619 --> 00:20:01,089 That you wanna, you wanna pick the people, like, so for me, I'll 528 00:20:01,090 --> 00:20:02,440 be honest, it's a mum and dad. 529 00:20:02,530 --> 00:20:05,240 Like, I love, uh, I love families. 530 00:20:05,350 --> 00:20:06,819 Actually, I, I don't mean that as a- Yeah 531 00:20:06,849 --> 00:20:09,139 as a, um, the s- the standardized person. 532 00:20:09,139 --> 00:20:10,259 So I, I want a family. 533 00:20:10,549 --> 00:20:11,770 That, that is big for me. 534 00:20:12,079 --> 00:20:16,859 I do like younger people because they're more my age, so I feel like I can 535 00:20:16,859 --> 00:20:17,990 click with them a little bit better. 536 00:20:18,299 --> 00:20:20,650 Having said that, I've got some a lot, clients who are a lot older. 537 00:20:21,020 --> 00:20:21,580 Um- There, 538 00:20:21,630 --> 00:20:25,740 there, there's, there's this, you know, and I think regardless of age, regardless 539 00:20:25,759 --> 00:20:29,670 of profession, like if you're a builder out there listening to it right now, find 540 00:20:29,670 --> 00:20:31,499 something in common with your client. 541 00:20:31,549 --> 00:20:31,829 Yeah. 542 00:20:32,020 --> 00:20:37,129 Because that commonality, one, breaks down so many barriers- Yeah … so you 543 00:20:37,159 --> 00:20:40,459 can actually have a conversation outside of the nuts and bolts of building, but 544 00:20:40,469 --> 00:20:42,159 you can actually build a relationship. 545 00:20:42,579 --> 00:20:45,269 So find something that you like doing. 546 00:20:45,340 --> 00:20:48,019 I've got a, you know, and I know Hamish, my client, listens 547 00:20:48,020 --> 00:20:49,879 to this, he goes surfing. 548 00:20:50,962 --> 00:20:51,692 I love surfing. 549 00:20:52,142 --> 00:20:55,292 I joke about when, when we finish this home that I wanna, I wanna 550 00:20:55,292 --> 00:20:57,822 still be able to whip down, have the key to a shed and go out surfing. 551 00:20:58,242 --> 00:21:02,532 So it's just finding something that you've got with the client that you can 552 00:21:02,532 --> 00:21:06,531 talk to outside of building, because that relationship building's so important. 553 00:21:06,541 --> 00:21:07,831 And that's why I go back, it's dating. 554 00:21:07,932 --> 00:21:11,601 Like, you… And clients should date multiple builders and multiple architects. 555 00:21:11,602 --> 00:21:12,932 Like, find who clicks for you. 556 00:21:13,171 --> 00:21:17,371 We're all gonna be the same price, as within a, like, we're gonna be so close. 557 00:21:17,401 --> 00:21:17,621 Yeah. 558 00:21:17,762 --> 00:21:21,361 But it is who you feel that you are just gonna click with, and sometimes 559 00:21:21,831 --> 00:21:25,441 I'll say, "I might not be for you and I might not be the best option for you." 560 00:21:25,522 --> 00:21:25,682 Yep. 561 00:21:25,711 --> 00:21:27,131 And that is so okay. 562 00:21:27,652 --> 00:21:28,491 A- and do you know what? 563 00:21:28,511 --> 00:21:32,671 We have experienced something between us, uh, with a client. 564 00:21:32,671 --> 00:21:32,686 Yeah. 565 00:21:32,686 --> 00:21:37,121 They ended up choosing you, and it was, it was a really interesting experience 566 00:21:37,151 --> 00:21:39,352 because we got on great with the client. 567 00:21:39,362 --> 00:21:39,382 Yeah. 568 00:21:39,391 --> 00:21:41,802 We had a great relationship with the client, and the 569 00:21:41,802 --> 00:21:43,362 client ended up choosing you. 570 00:21:43,751 --> 00:21:47,421 And I remember when she called me, I could tell that she was quite nervous, 571 00:21:47,421 --> 00:21:51,151 and I go, "Look, at the end of the day, I know you're gonna get an amazing 572 00:21:51,151 --> 00:21:54,322 result working with Matt. If you feel you have a better connection for 573 00:21:54,322 --> 00:21:56,232 whatever reason, go with Matt." Yeah. 574 00:21:56,232 --> 00:21:58,671 "That's fine." And, 'cause that's really important, 'cause if there's 575 00:21:58,671 --> 00:22:02,491 something about me or there's something about my team that you didn't like 576 00:22:02,551 --> 00:22:04,841 but preferred it in Matt, choose Matt. 577 00:22:04,981 --> 00:22:06,451 I just lost out a job to death. 578 00:22:06,472 --> 00:22:06,732 Like- 579 00:22:06,792 --> 00:22:07,301 Oh, there you go 580 00:22:07,311 --> 00:22:09,742 … it's, so she, she obviously clicked with them better and 581 00:22:09,742 --> 00:22:11,551 that's, I would 100% support that. 582 00:22:11,561 --> 00:22:11,831 Yeah. 583 00:22:12,061 --> 00:22:14,842 I think that we really just need to make sure that, that it's, it's such 584 00:22:14,842 --> 00:22:18,171 a big thing and, um, I had, I had a potential client chatting to me 585 00:22:18,182 --> 00:22:20,701 the other day and they've got three architects they're looking at, and 586 00:22:20,701 --> 00:22:22,231 they can't work out which one to pick. 587 00:22:22,231 --> 00:22:24,801 And I said, "They're all, they're, they're all the same cost." I was 588 00:22:24,821 --> 00:22:27,011 like, "Well, who do you like the most?" And they said which one. 589 00:22:27,012 --> 00:22:28,826 I was like, "There's your answer." There's your 590 00:22:28,826 --> 00:22:28,999 answer, 591 00:22:28,999 --> 00:22:29,171 yeah. 592 00:22:29,171 --> 00:22:31,061 Like, what are we talking about here now? 593 00:22:31,251 --> 00:22:35,701 Um, you've got to really think about this from a, a different perspective. 594 00:22:35,701 --> 00:22:39,221 And you, you've got a relationship with them and it's who you can be honest 595 00:22:39,222 --> 00:22:41,931 with and trust and who's gonna tell you the most correct information and, 596 00:22:42,362 --> 00:22:45,201 um, you feel that is gonna be open and transparent with you the most. 597 00:22:45,201 --> 00:22:50,081 And they're just such key things that you, you get them wrong, you got 15 598 00:22:50,081 --> 00:22:52,191 years ahead of you that just, you just don't wanna be thinking about. 599 00:22:52,652 --> 00:22:57,362 That, that can be, most people, what- A quarter of their lifetime? 600 00:22:57,802 --> 00:22:58,602 Hame, I think 601 00:22:58,602 --> 00:23:02,322 it's been the biggest game changer in my business since building a passive house. 602 00:23:02,602 --> 00:23:04,782 I could not agree with you more. 603 00:23:04,842 --> 00:23:06,272 Now, we're obviously talking about Wonder Build. 604 00:23:06,361 --> 00:23:06,661 Yeah. 605 00:23:06,701 --> 00:23:10,221 And, and we know a lot of builders using it, and honestly, it's one of the biggest 606 00:23:10,222 --> 00:23:13,072 questions we get on social media is, what is it like being on Wonder Build? 607 00:23:13,091 --> 00:23:15,932 And honestly, it's a real hard answer to give because it's 608 00:23:15,932 --> 00:23:17,102 just transformed everything. 609 00:23:17,102 --> 00:23:19,982 It's one place for everything, and it's at a point now where I 610 00:23:19,992 --> 00:23:23,301 haven't got 15 or 16 different apps to run my business for my team. 611 00:23:23,511 --> 00:23:24,582 We're nearly down to one. 612 00:23:24,681 --> 00:23:25,661 Yeah, it's incredible. 613 00:23:25,671 --> 00:23:29,481 From your initial estimates all the way through to project management, Wonder 614 00:23:29,482 --> 00:23:31,462 Build, one-stop shop, absolute no-brainer. 615 00:23:31,462 --> 00:23:31,672 Yeah. 616 00:23:31,672 --> 00:23:34,342 Even our leads, we're now sending our leads through there so we can track 617 00:23:34,342 --> 00:23:36,041 clients the moment they reach out to us. 618 00:23:36,041 --> 00:23:39,921 So track your variations, which we know builders struggle doing, your 619 00:23:39,941 --> 00:23:41,701 costings, sending out quote requests. 620 00:23:41,831 --> 00:23:44,682 It has everything and they're one of the best teams at implementing 621 00:23:44,682 --> 00:23:47,852 future things to improve the system, and it's also now integrated 622 00:23:47,852 --> 00:23:49,611 into Claude if you're big on AI. 623 00:23:49,752 --> 00:23:50,102 Yep. 624 00:23:50,252 --> 00:23:50,901 Game changer. 625 00:23:50,941 --> 00:23:51,711 Wonder Build, get on 626 00:23:51,712 --> 00:23:51,732 it. 627 00:23:51,732 --> 00:23:53,182 Yeah, so sign up wonderbuild.com 628 00:23:57,422 --> 00:24:00,042 So I'm just gonna change tack a little bit and ask you a question. 629 00:24:00,092 --> 00:24:04,112 What are some of the things that you expect your clients 630 00:24:04,112 --> 00:24:05,682 to do during pre-construction? 631 00:24:06,132 --> 00:24:06,702 Trust us. 632 00:24:07,162 --> 00:24:08,392 That's number one, just trust us. 633 00:24:08,422 --> 00:24:09,572 And loop everyone. 634 00:24:09,572 --> 00:24:10,692 Don't hide information. 635 00:24:10,692 --> 00:24:12,701 Don't be the gatekeeper, like we are. 636 00:24:12,712 --> 00:24:15,011 So I don't want you to gatekeep budget. 637 00:24:15,162 --> 00:24:17,982 Don't tell us you've got a $1 million budget when you've got two and a 638 00:24:17,982 --> 00:24:21,272 half, because that makes it really, really hard for us at that point. 639 00:24:21,621 --> 00:24:23,182 We're, we're not incentivized to get this higher. 640 00:24:23,211 --> 00:24:25,642 We're actually incentivized to get it down so we get it on site faster. 641 00:24:25,642 --> 00:24:25,852 Well, you're, 642 00:24:26,031 --> 00:24:27,241 you're incentivized to build it. 643 00:24:27,391 --> 00:24:27,711 Yeah. 644 00:24:27,901 --> 00:24:32,122 So the quicker I can get on site, the more profitable the project is. 645 00:24:32,221 --> 00:24:35,721 So because we chew up a lot of time in that early stages of just time. 646 00:24:36,152 --> 00:24:39,512 So I… That is, that is one big thing. 647 00:24:39,832 --> 00:24:45,531 Um, I think, trust the people around you, ask the right questions, and 648 00:24:45,551 --> 00:24:47,622 don't be afraid to ask a question. 649 00:24:47,622 --> 00:24:49,131 Like, no question is a dumb question. 650 00:24:49,471 --> 00:24:52,711 I'd rather you ask the question, and even if you think it's stupid, I 651 00:24:52,711 --> 00:24:54,412 answer it, and then you're at ease. 652 00:24:54,571 --> 00:24:54,801 Yeah. 653 00:24:54,992 --> 00:24:57,521 Um, I think that's a big, big thing, is just… Yeah. 654 00:24:57,701 --> 00:24:58,651 What have, what have you got? 655 00:24:59,102 --> 00:25:01,411 Well, I mean, I, I think about, like, the people that are 656 00:25:01,411 --> 00:25:03,051 involved in pre-construction. 657 00:25:03,081 --> 00:25:03,271 Mm-hmm. 658 00:25:03,282 --> 00:25:06,432 So obviously, we've got the client, we've got the designer, and, or the design 659 00:25:06,511 --> 00:25:09,412 team, which would include interiors as well, and then you've got the engineer, 660 00:25:09,412 --> 00:25:11,752 and then you've got thermal modeling, and then you've got the builder. 661 00:25:12,032 --> 00:25:12,222 Yeah. 662 00:25:12,411 --> 00:25:16,582 Like, you can't gatekeep information from one to the other. 663 00:25:16,701 --> 00:25:16,972 Mm-hmm. 664 00:25:16,981 --> 00:25:20,671 Like, there needs to be free-flowing conversations between everybody. 665 00:25:20,712 --> 00:25:20,992 Yeah. 666 00:25:21,142 --> 00:25:24,092 Because, uh, and sorry, I forgot the, uh, landscape designer 667 00:25:24,102 --> 00:25:25,335 as well, and the landscaping. 668 00:25:25,335 --> 00:25:25,881 Just get your team. 669 00:25:25,881 --> 00:25:27,961 Everyone who you think is necessary on that project. 670 00:25:27,971 --> 00:25:32,322 So the communication, n- a- and, and I'm not saying share everything, 'cause 671 00:25:32,322 --> 00:25:37,921 sometimes conversations from the landscape is not relevant to the interior designer. 672 00:25:37,931 --> 00:25:43,472 So just be conscious of, of that, of, of just CCing everyone into an email and 673 00:25:43,472 --> 00:25:44,961 just assuming everyone needs to know. 674 00:25:45,521 --> 00:25:51,522 Be conscious of who needs to understand what, and not, and, and don't gatekeep 675 00:25:51,522 --> 00:25:52,862 information from one to the other. 676 00:25:52,871 --> 00:25:52,891 Yeah. 677 00:25:52,922 --> 00:25:54,611 Or don't put one against each other. 678 00:25:54,651 --> 00:25:54,911 Yeah. 679 00:25:55,102 --> 00:25:57,671 And don't… So this, it kind of flows in well. 680 00:25:57,701 --> 00:26:01,991 So because I did a r- a bit of a review with my team recently about a project we 681 00:26:01,992 --> 00:26:03,361 just finished that was an ABIC contract. 682 00:26:03,411 --> 00:26:04,331 Now, I've done them before. 683 00:26:05,311 --> 00:26:09,481 The, the feedback I got from my team that was, they didn't feel as close 684 00:26:09,491 --> 00:26:12,011 with the client because everything had to go through the architect. 685 00:26:12,461 --> 00:26:15,511 Now, it's interesting, because the client felt they had the closest 686 00:26:15,511 --> 00:26:18,841 relationship with us, and we felt we had a very good relationship, but I 687 00:26:18,871 --> 00:26:22,381 didn't feel like it was as close because noth- not everything went through us. 688 00:26:22,612 --> 00:26:24,912 So it really started to open my up and I looked back at other ABIC 689 00:26:24,931 --> 00:26:27,961 contracts, and I didn't feel that was the same in those other ones. 690 00:26:27,961 --> 00:26:28,161 Yeah. 691 00:26:28,571 --> 00:26:33,234 But I felt- In that form of contract, I've, I've started to r- ask the question 692 00:26:33,234 --> 00:26:36,444 is like, because we've got to send everything to the architect, and that's 693 00:26:36,444 --> 00:26:41,083 fine, and then negotiate them, I just felt there was just this like, it was like a 694 00:26:41,093 --> 00:26:41,894 bridge you had to get over every time. 695 00:26:42,234 --> 00:26:43,754 Well, it's not, it's, and it's not free-flowing either. 696 00:26:43,763 --> 00:26:44,753 No, it's, yeah. 697 00:26:44,783 --> 00:26:46,954 And you don't know what's been said, and you, you gotta put a 698 00:26:46,954 --> 00:26:48,244 lot of trust in the architect. 699 00:26:48,244 --> 00:26:52,414 And I felt that that was a, a part, and it had nothing to do with the build 700 00:26:52,414 --> 00:26:56,043 or the contract, it was the fact that like, from the relationship of how we 701 00:26:56,043 --> 00:26:58,514 pick clients, I felt that was a barrier. 702 00:26:58,863 --> 00:26:59,173 Yes. 703 00:26:59,223 --> 00:26:59,993 I, I agree with you. 704 00:27:00,043 --> 00:27:01,223 And, and, and it was strange. 705 00:27:01,223 --> 00:27:06,457 Like, I, I, um- We still, and we still spoke to them multiple times a week. 706 00:27:06,947 --> 00:27:10,498 Uh, it's just, I d- I don't know why, it was just feedback that I had from 707 00:27:10,498 --> 00:27:12,518 multiple team members individually. 708 00:27:12,527 --> 00:27:12,547 Yeah. 709 00:27:12,558 --> 00:27:16,578 And they, I don't know if they talked about it together, but that was something 710 00:27:16,578 --> 00:27:18,108 that I was like, "Okay, interesting." 711 00:27:18,178 --> 00:27:18,648 Um- 712 00:27:18,808 --> 00:27:20,257 So trust, budget. 713 00:27:21,497 --> 00:27:22,528 Have we got anything else? 714 00:27:22,687 --> 00:27:23,528 Because I, I think the- 715 00:27:23,537 --> 00:27:24,297 Location 716 00:27:24,338 --> 00:27:24,937 … location. 717 00:27:24,998 --> 00:27:27,667 And the biggest thing is just, yeah, don't be afraid to walk 718 00:27:27,668 --> 00:27:31,647 away, um, because you will get hurt, you will waste a lot of time 719 00:27:31,918 --> 00:27:32,298 potentially. 720 00:27:32,298 --> 00:27:32,557 And that, you know what? 721 00:27:32,557 --> 00:27:35,197 And that goes the same for the client as well. 722 00:27:35,268 --> 00:27:37,517 If, if the client's not feeling it- Yeah 723 00:27:37,557 --> 00:27:39,047 don't feel like you're, you're locked 724 00:27:39,048 --> 00:27:39,198 in. 725 00:27:39,337 --> 00:27:42,717 No, this is, it's, it's like, yeah, again, I said it multiple times 726 00:27:42,717 --> 00:27:44,247 today, it's like a relationship. 727 00:27:44,407 --> 00:27:49,957 Like, it's, you need to be able to have a very, um, robust conversation at times. 728 00:27:50,127 --> 00:27:53,778 You, times you're gonna laugh and cuddle, and times it's not gonna be 729 00:27:53,778 --> 00:27:56,747 fun conversations, and that's what a normal, healthy relationship looks like. 730 00:27:56,817 --> 00:28:01,358 If you can't, if you're not in a position as the builder or the client 731 00:28:01,368 --> 00:28:04,107 to have a challenging conversation- 732 00:28:04,127 --> 00:28:04,347 Yeah 733 00:28:04,477 --> 00:28:06,467 … then the relationship's not strong. 734 00:28:06,618 --> 00:28:07,008 Yeah. 735 00:28:07,037 --> 00:28:11,298 Because if you think about, think about the emotions that are involved in 736 00:28:11,348 --> 00:28:14,967 pre-construction, and then think about the emotions that are involved once big 737 00:28:14,998 --> 00:28:20,187 chunks of money's coming out of your bank account and decisions are for real. 738 00:28:20,217 --> 00:28:21,598 Like, they are tangible. 739 00:28:21,867 --> 00:28:22,117 Yeah. 740 00:28:22,117 --> 00:28:22,498 Yeah. 741 00:28:22,498 --> 00:28:25,998 Like, you need to be able to test that relationship in pre-construction, 742 00:28:26,337 --> 00:28:30,057 challenge relationships in pre-construction, challenge decisions, 743 00:28:30,397 --> 00:28:32,498 challenge cost, challenge budget. 744 00:28:33,007 --> 00:28:34,597 Location's not something you can challenge. 745 00:28:34,877 --> 00:28:38,457 But, like, if you think about, like, being able to test that relationship 746 00:28:38,467 --> 00:28:42,758 over a six to 12-month period, when you get to construction, like, 747 00:28:42,767 --> 00:28:45,667 the relationship's been tested, 'cause there's going to be times- 748 00:28:45,697 --> 00:28:46,577 Which is almost the hardest part 749 00:28:46,857 --> 00:28:48,447 well, there's gonna be times during construction where 750 00:28:48,447 --> 00:28:49,647 variations will come up- 751 00:28:49,697 --> 00:28:49,927 Yeah 752 00:28:50,017 --> 00:28:52,278 … that are unforeseen. 753 00:28:52,278 --> 00:28:52,298 Yeah. 754 00:28:52,367 --> 00:28:54,937 And they're never nice as a builder to have that conversation with a client, 755 00:28:55,117 --> 00:28:58,477 but, you know, if we find a big rock in the ground, it's not our fault. 756 00:28:58,487 --> 00:28:59,447 You've already got that rapport. 757 00:28:59,447 --> 00:29:00,427 You've already got the 758 00:29:00,597 --> 00:29:00,757 trust. 759 00:29:00,757 --> 00:29:01,547 That's what I'm, that's what I'm saying. 760 00:29:01,617 --> 00:29:01,837 Yeah. 761 00:29:01,887 --> 00:29:05,977 One of the things I look for, actually, is, can I just sit with you on a Friday 762 00:29:05,977 --> 00:29:08,007 afternoon and have a, like, have a drink? 763 00:29:08,117 --> 00:29:09,487 Can we go, can we go for a drink? 764 00:29:09,778 --> 00:29:13,597 And not that I do, it's, it's there, could I classify you as a friend? 765 00:29:13,898 --> 00:29:14,138 Yeah. 766 00:29:14,217 --> 00:29:17,468 And I think that is a big one, because it shows that you click. 767 00:29:17,508 --> 00:29:19,267 Are you my type of person I just hang out with? 768 00:29:19,627 --> 00:29:23,417 And I'm thinking now in my head of all my clients right now, is I 769 00:29:23,417 --> 00:29:28,257 can't think of one in the last eight years that I wouldn't just do that. 770 00:29:28,257 --> 00:29:31,217 And I think that is, I have, like, for me, I know you have a different rule. 771 00:29:31,237 --> 00:29:32,637 I won't build for friends and family. 772 00:29:32,648 --> 00:29:33,097 You will. 773 00:29:33,148 --> 00:29:33,408 Yeah. 774 00:29:33,508 --> 00:29:36,848 But I, I want to, would you be a friend? 775 00:29:36,857 --> 00:29:39,727 Would I, would I consider you, I probably consider most of my clients 776 00:29:39,727 --> 00:29:43,457 that you don't become clients, you actually become someone in my life. 777 00:29:43,598 --> 00:29:45,217 Do, do you know why I can build for friends? 778 00:29:45,607 --> 00:29:45,637 Okay. 779 00:29:45,648 --> 00:29:49,817 'Cause I treat my friends exactly how I treat my clients. 780 00:29:49,857 --> 00:29:50,617 Yeah, okay. 781 00:29:50,667 --> 00:29:53,967 And, and I'm just very clear about, okay, w- we're, you're, you're 782 00:29:53,987 --> 00:29:58,290 coming to me because you perceive that we do a good job I know we do a 783 00:29:58,290 --> 00:30:00,370 good job and you trust in what I do 784 00:30:00,550 --> 00:30:01,610 I think it's a financial thing. 785 00:30:01,630 --> 00:30:03,360 I just don't want to be chasing an invoice from them. 786 00:30:03,450 --> 00:30:04,630 I think that's my biggest fear. 787 00:30:04,730 --> 00:30:05,810 You know, I've never had an issue. 788 00:30:05,870 --> 00:30:06,050 Yeah. 789 00:30:06,050 --> 00:30:06,852 And, and I probably wouldn't expect to. 790 00:30:06,852 --> 00:30:07,004 It's me. 791 00:30:07,004 --> 00:30:07,544 I've had, I've 792 00:30:07,544 --> 00:30:07,889 had, 793 00:30:07,889 --> 00:30:11,800 I've had one, I had one issue over the years, um, and I just know there 794 00:30:11,800 --> 00:30:15,909 was some stuff going on, so I kind of was a little bit, um- I was a 795 00:30:15,909 --> 00:30:19,820 little bit more lenient with it, but I, I, I love building for friends. 796 00:30:19,889 --> 00:30:21,210 I love being able to go back- 797 00:30:21,260 --> 00:30:21,774 Yeah, okay. 798 00:30:21,774 --> 00:30:25,570 But I feel like I go back and one thing we do now, and actually Jack from, uh, 799 00:30:25,590 --> 00:30:29,690 now MBH, he messaged me because we put this, uh, one of my team put it on social 800 00:30:29,690 --> 00:30:32,839 media, end of the project, my whole team go to the handover and he's like, 801 00:30:32,849 --> 00:30:37,080 "I love this." And so that is probably how I can sum up, sum up a good project. 802 00:30:37,080 --> 00:30:41,649 If my whole team are wanting to go to a handover at the end of a project, and 803 00:30:41,649 --> 00:30:44,329 they can have the chats to client about anything, like we're in the handover, 804 00:30:44,329 --> 00:30:45,569 we didn't even talk about the build. 805 00:30:46,339 --> 00:30:48,790 We're talking about the footy and the kids and what they're watching on TV. 806 00:30:49,069 --> 00:30:50,870 That is how I define a good relationship. 807 00:30:50,879 --> 00:30:54,639 When I'm talking to you as a client and I'm getting a message from you at 9:30 at 808 00:30:54,639 --> 00:30:58,509 night, not about the build, being like, "Got a good TV series?" I, I classify- 809 00:30:58,509 --> 00:30:59,780 Yeah … that as, as, as a success. 810 00:30:59,780 --> 00:30:59,899 I've 811 00:30:59,900 --> 00:31:02,379 actually just written that down because it's generally just me and the 812 00:31:02,379 --> 00:31:05,520 supervisor and maybe someone- I took 813 00:31:05,520 --> 00:31:09,210 the crew down twice now, and I just felt it was, um, a nice wrap 814 00:31:09,210 --> 00:31:11,209 off just to reward everyone for the project, and we just- Yeah. 815 00:31:11,209 --> 00:31:11,379 I really- … go 816 00:31:11,570 --> 00:31:11,710 have a 817 00:31:11,710 --> 00:31:12,300 lunch after 818 00:31:12,300 --> 00:31:13,099 it … I really like that. 819 00:31:13,099 --> 00:31:15,649 I, I think, um, I, I've, I've written this down because I think 820 00:31:15,649 --> 00:31:17,359 that's something that I'd like to have a chat with my team about. 821 00:31:17,359 --> 00:31:19,939 So, so I'm gonna give one before we wrap this up, because I'm gonna try to keep 822 00:31:19,940 --> 00:31:20,959 these episodes a little bit shorter. 823 00:31:21,699 --> 00:31:24,979 Um, and we'll get to our MEGT mindful moment in a second. 824 00:31:25,580 --> 00:31:29,359 I, I have a client, um, Sarah and Shane, which is our retrofit 825 00:31:29,370 --> 00:31:30,729 Rafa Range Passive House. 826 00:31:31,190 --> 00:31:36,089 And to define how and what I now look for in a client, and this is a level of trust 827 00:31:36,089 --> 00:31:40,370 I want in you, Sarah became my mortgage broker halfway dur- during her build. 828 00:31:40,449 --> 00:31:44,959 I gave her my access to every bank account that I have financially so 829 00:31:44,959 --> 00:31:48,750 she could see how I was sitting, and there was that level of trust that 830 00:31:48,750 --> 00:31:50,009 I knew she would do the right thing. 831 00:31:50,049 --> 00:31:53,949 That is what I want in my client, that every client is now my Shane and 832 00:31:53,949 --> 00:31:57,809 Sarah avatar, and I've got amazing clients elsewhere, but that is what 833 00:31:57,809 --> 00:32:01,029 I look for, and that is the level of trust that I want in someone. 834 00:32:01,139 --> 00:32:02,189 So you've heard it here first. 835 00:32:02,209 --> 00:32:04,710 If you are signing Matt up, he is gonna show 836 00:32:04,710 --> 00:32:05,539 you his bank accounts. 837 00:32:05,549 --> 00:32:08,220 No, I definitely won't, unless you can get me a lot of money to 838 00:32:08,220 --> 00:32:10,249 borrow stuff, and not that I need it anymore because I've built mine. 839 00:32:10,249 --> 00:32:10,339 No, I, yeah, I, I know, 840 00:32:12,339 --> 00:32:15,319 I know Sarah and Shane, uh, and I, and I've obviously interviewed them, 841 00:32:15,319 --> 00:32:18,440 I've, I've talked to them before they talked to you, and they are incredible 842 00:32:18,440 --> 00:32:21,419 human beings, and they, in my mind, are your perfect avatar client. 843 00:32:21,419 --> 00:32:22,669 So, 844 00:32:22,669 --> 00:32:25,129 so this is, and I know I wanna wrap this one up and keep them short, 845 00:32:25,129 --> 00:32:29,550 but interestingly enough is that we probably trade clients more than… My 846 00:32:29,550 --> 00:32:31,749 biggest reference point for a while was 847 00:32:31,790 --> 00:32:32,090 you. 848 00:32:32,179 --> 00:32:32,909 And vice versa. 849 00:32:32,909 --> 00:32:37,020 Yeah, so s- and that's the part of saying no, that like, "Hey, it's in Warrandyte," 850 00:32:37,069 --> 00:32:40,729 for some odd reason, "Oh, we listened to the podcast, we want you to build a house. 851 00:32:40,730 --> 00:32:40,950 Where is it? 852 00:32:40,950 --> 00:32:42,750 It's in Warrandyte." So go Hamish. 853 00:32:43,159 --> 00:32:44,059 Like, like- S- 854 00:32:44,079 --> 00:32:44,969 sometimes people don't put two and 855 00:32:44,969 --> 00:32:46,300 two- No, I know … two and two together. 856 00:32:46,550 --> 00:32:49,179 Yeah … but like, but like, but for me, it's like I'm not gonna go out there. 857 00:32:49,209 --> 00:32:49,769 That's his- 858 00:32:49,950 --> 00:32:50,150 Yeah 859 00:32:50,150 --> 00:32:50,729 … he's out there. 860 00:32:50,730 --> 00:32:52,860 So I, I think that's the other part. 861 00:32:52,919 --> 00:32:55,549 And what's one thing, if I can't build for you, no matter, if I 862 00:32:55,549 --> 00:32:57,719 don't, even I don't click with you, I will always find you someone. 863 00:32:57,959 --> 00:32:59,119 I will always pass you on to someone. 864 00:32:59,480 --> 00:32:59,810 Yeah. 865 00:32:59,849 --> 00:33:00,289 Budget- 866 00:33:00,299 --> 00:33:01,289 For the, for the most part. 867 00:33:01,419 --> 00:33:01,439 Yeah. 868 00:33:01,439 --> 00:33:03,869 If there's big red flags in there, then if there's big red 869 00:33:03,879 --> 00:33:05,329 herrings running through there- 870 00:33:05,829 --> 00:33:05,949 Handled like, 871 00:33:05,949 --> 00:33:08,150 " Hey, you should contact Hamish" … may- maybe, maybe, maybe we don't. 872 00:33:08,150 --> 00:33:08,330 Yeah. 873 00:33:08,330 --> 00:33:11,440 But, um, yeah, I, uh- 'Cause I actually do remember there was one 874 00:33:11,660 --> 00:33:14,050 project that was kicking around for a while and went through all the 875 00:33:14,180 --> 00:33:15,090 high-performance buildings I know. 876 00:33:15,830 --> 00:33:18,190 And it was just getting handballed- Yeah … from one to the next. 877 00:33:18,200 --> 00:33:21,690 So, um, MEG Mindful Moment, uh, MEG, Australia's largest 878 00:33:21,690 --> 00:33:21,710 apprenticeship experts. 879 00:33:21,710 --> 00:33:21,800 Now, this, this one is 880 00:33:27,010 --> 00:33:28,379 for… I've got one here. 881 00:33:28,649 --> 00:33:29,899 I know we've spoken about this. 882 00:33:30,860 --> 00:33:32,040 You're a, you're a tradie. 883 00:33:32,530 --> 00:33:33,629 You finish your apprenticeship. 884 00:33:34,290 --> 00:33:37,960 You're gonna start doing some cashies or out by yourself. 885 00:33:37,960 --> 00:33:39,709 Do not be afraid to say no. 886 00:33:40,569 --> 00:33:43,219 Do not be afraid to walk away from a project if you think you're 887 00:33:43,219 --> 00:33:44,239 gonna be taken through the ringer. 888 00:33:44,269 --> 00:33:46,809 Now, at some point you will, I promise you. 889 00:33:46,809 --> 00:33:53,369 It's one thing I promise you, is you are going to, um, have a hard conversation, 890 00:33:53,909 --> 00:33:56,349 and you're gonna do something wrong, and you're gonna blame the client, 891 00:33:56,350 --> 00:33:57,489 and most likely it's your problem. 892 00:33:57,960 --> 00:33:59,879 Most likely it was you that was the problem. 893 00:33:59,940 --> 00:34:00,249 All right? 894 00:34:00,249 --> 00:34:02,599 You haven't communicated enough, you haven't been clear enough in your quote. 895 00:34:03,109 --> 00:34:05,540 But what I want you to do is don't be afraid to say no. 896 00:34:05,589 --> 00:34:10,132 If you don't feel like it's for you- You might get excited. 897 00:34:10,132 --> 00:34:12,822 Stop and think, respond, don't react to the project. 898 00:34:12,822 --> 00:34:14,172 Don't sign them up there on the spot. 899 00:34:14,662 --> 00:34:18,381 Have a think and go, "Hey, uh, yeah, I'm gonna get a few hundred bucks, 900 00:34:18,412 --> 00:34:21,442 but is it really worth it?" I think that's a big one for me on that, so. 901 00:34:21,452 --> 00:34:21,712 Yep. 902 00:34:21,852 --> 00:34:23,172 When I'll, can I comment something to that, too? 903 00:34:23,172 --> 00:34:23,402 Go 904 00:34:23,492 --> 00:34:23,662 for it. 905 00:34:23,981 --> 00:34:25,722 ' Cause I've, I've just… I, I agree. 906 00:34:25,782 --> 00:34:28,232 Um, walking away and saying no's really important. 907 00:34:28,832 --> 00:34:35,002 If you do, uh, if you do embark on a, a job where, you know, everything's 908 00:34:35,002 --> 00:34:37,281 lining up from a, from a client point of view, from a budget point 909 00:34:37,281 --> 00:34:41,671 of view, trust from both sides is probably the second thing- Yeah 910 00:34:41,671 --> 00:34:42,872 that you really wanna foster. 911 00:34:43,251 --> 00:34:45,202 You need to trust the client, they need to trust you. 912 00:34:45,332 --> 00:34:45,582 Yeah. 913 00:34:45,881 --> 00:34:48,942 Like, how you go and then, you know, foster this environment where 914 00:34:48,942 --> 00:34:52,981 trust is, you know, key, and that includes understanding their budget, 915 00:34:53,001 --> 00:34:55,261 you being honest with the budget- Yeah … you being honest with the 916 00:34:55,262 --> 00:34:56,561 expectations of setting on site. 917 00:34:56,701 --> 00:34:58,642 That's everything that builds trust. 918 00:34:58,642 --> 00:34:59,931 Don't tell them what they wanna hear. 919 00:35:00,551 --> 00:35:00,901 You're the expert here. 920 00:35:00,901 --> 00:35:01,081 Yeah. 921 00:35:01,082 --> 00:35:02,831 Do not just tell a client what they wanna hear- Yeah … 'cause 922 00:35:02,831 --> 00:35:04,111 it will come back and bite you. 923 00:35:04,501 --> 00:35:05,022 I've done it. 924 00:35:05,022 --> 00:35:06,082 I'm sure you've done it. 925 00:35:06,561 --> 00:35:07,002 Um- Well, 926 00:35:07,082 --> 00:35:10,731 I, I'm gonna give one more example before we, uh, before we wrap up. 927 00:35:10,731 --> 00:35:12,282 I went and saw a project the other day. 928 00:35:12,681 --> 00:35:15,291 I said to the client, "How much you wanna spend?" "800." And I said, 929 00:35:15,291 --> 00:35:17,981 "Well, there's no way in hell this is a under a million dollar project." 930 00:35:18,111 --> 00:35:18,321 Yeah. 931 00:35:18,461 --> 00:35:20,442 And I said, "If you don't feel comfortable with that, then there's 932 00:35:20,442 --> 00:35:22,731 no point in me continuing this conversation. I'll leave now." 933 00:35:22,781 --> 00:35:23,061 Yeah. 934 00:35:23,071 --> 00:35:23,081 I 935 00:35:23,131 --> 00:35:25,331 said, "My gut is it's gonna be 1.1 to 1.2." 936 00:35:25,601 --> 00:35:25,781 Yeah. 937 00:35:26,342 --> 00:35:31,772 Set the expectation of, like, straight away of, like, not pandering 938 00:35:31,791 --> 00:35:33,052 to something that's unachievable. 939 00:35:33,162 --> 00:35:33,392 Yeah, 940 00:35:33,491 --> 00:35:36,722 like- Because if you play that out, like, six, seven months down the 941 00:35:36,732 --> 00:35:41,341 track when you finally give them a price, they've still got $800,000 in 942 00:35:41,341 --> 00:35:41,622 their head. 943 00:35:41,622 --> 00:35:45,911 And it goes back to the conversation we had about, um, when they tick that 944 00:35:45,912 --> 00:35:48,811 box, "I haven't built before." They're not meant to know what things cost. 945 00:35:48,811 --> 00:35:50,171 They've heard it off a friend- Exactly, 946 00:35:50,171 --> 00:35:50,421 yeah 947 00:35:50,431 --> 00:35:52,452 … or they've heard it 10 years ago, their friend built for this. 948 00:35:52,452 --> 00:35:53,281 Things have changed. 949 00:35:53,291 --> 00:35:55,262 So you, you, again, you're the expert. 950 00:35:55,271 --> 00:35:58,241 You have to tell them what it's going to cost, and we will get to that in 951 00:35:58,241 --> 00:36:02,201 this series about how to give that information, because that is arguably 952 00:36:02,201 --> 00:36:03,861 the hardest part of our job right now. 953 00:36:04,471 --> 00:36:09,261 But, but yeah, don't be a f- yeah, don't… If you hide something, and 954 00:36:09,341 --> 00:36:12,392 I'm not gonna say you're lying, you're eventually just gonna get called out. 955 00:36:12,762 --> 00:36:15,321 It, it, it, I promise you, you'll get called out and, and- You, you- … then 956 00:36:15,451 --> 00:36:16,681 you've gotta dig yourself out of a hole 957 00:36:16,692 --> 00:36:19,551 You, you're gonna have the conversation around money at some point. 958 00:36:19,562 --> 00:36:19,582 Yeah. 959 00:36:19,592 --> 00:36:20,641 Why not have it really early? 960 00:36:20,661 --> 00:36:20,921 Yeah. 961 00:36:21,351 --> 00:36:21,561 Yeah. 962 00:36:21,562 --> 00:36:21,841 All right. 963 00:36:22,092 --> 00:36:22,312 Done. 964 00:36:22,622 --> 00:36:22,972 Awesome. 965 00:36:22,982 --> 00:36:23,401 Thank you. 966 00:36:23,411 --> 00:36:23,741 Thanks, mate. 967 00:36:24,262 --> 00:36:24,552 Cheers.