This is Transit Unplugged.

I'm Paul Comfort.

Today is part two of our podcast interviews from Tulsa,

Oklahoma, here in the U.

S.

In part one, last week, we spoke with Scott Marr, the CEO of Tulsa

Transit, now known as Metrolink Tulsa.

And he shared about the transit system.

On today's episode, we speak with Chase Phillips, Director of Planning for

Metrolink Tulsa, and he shares about what's commonly known as placemaking.

How Tulsa became such an important city in America back in the

1920s and 30s, with the largest airport in the world at the time.

Together, he and I ride and walk around downtown Tulsa and take the

hidden tunnels underneath the city to see some of its fabulous history,

its Art Deco architecture, and hidden gems As Chase says, it shows

preservation and communities valuing things that have been previously

built, built by other generations.

We also discuss his career path from MPO to transit agency and his vision

for transit in this amazing city.

We also have a companion video coming out on our Transit Unplugged TV

show, which will show you some of what we discuss in this interview.

Plus, check out the show notes for this podcast for some great pictures

we took inside these buildings that we visit on the episode.

Now, let's join Chase Phillips as we ride through Central Tulsa.

So, Route 66 really has a storied place in

American pop culture, right?

And so, um, Tulsa plays a central part of that.

Um, Cyrus Avery, um, you know, the, father of the Mother Road.

Um, he was a former Tulsa County Commissioner.

Um, he really, you know, played a very crucial part in bringing

Route 66 to Tulsa, um, as the main access point across Arkansas River.

It's not just about wide roads and open highways and, you know,

and fast cars and classic cars.

It's also about the people.

It's about bringing connection Uh, two places, um, so, and, uh,

reintroducing that to other people, bringing them, being able to give

them access to your community, and so, um, a lot of really cool, beautiful

things, uh, that you see in that.

Chase, so tell me about the Art Deco here in Tulsa.

Yeah, so Art Deco, is another one of those aspects

of this historical period kind of in the 1920s when Tulsa really,

started forming its identity as a city and as a place and its people.

kind of going back to the, you know, the late 1800s, um, so I believe oil

was first discovered in Tulsa in 1901.

So fast forward from oil discovery in 1901.

Within the next 20 years, Tulsa completely exploded in terms of wealth that really

stemmed from that, that oil industry.

We have the busiest airport in the world, and I believe that

extended all the way up into 1960.

You have, individuals like Waite Phillips and Phillips Petroleum, constructing a

lot of this, you know, a lot of these structures downtown that are, you know,

this has this beautiful architecture, Art Deco architecture, but also like an

underground tunnel system that really kind of helps them safely navigate

between their residents and their bank and, and so, you know, so there's a

lot, there really is a lot of history involved in the built environment that

is here in Tulsa, so you do see that we have a very large concentration of

Art Deco buildings, um, lots of old cathedrals and church structures that

are, you know, also Exhibit a lot of that.

So as you drive down Boston Avenue, which is where we're at right

now, which is this This is my favorite street in Oklahoma by far.

Awesome.

It's gorgeous.

So and you do have a little mixed some more modern buildings But you very much

see this art deco aesthetic and it's very Portrayed all throughout Tulsa.

Our marketing and our identity.

It's a part of who we are.

Let me ask you this.

This is what's amazing.

We're on the main drag, Boston Avenue.

There's not one car around us.

We're here, uh, in the afternoon around lunchtime and, uh, it's, it's wide open.

I've never driven in a, these are, you know, 20, 30 story buildings around

me and there's nobody around me.

Yeah, yeah.

It's, it's amazing.

Yeah, especially, and you do have a lot of people, right?

So that's one of the trends that's definitely extended into Tulsa.

We're a lot, starting to reclaim a lot of that, empty travel space, um,

and make that, street cafes, for local businesses, because there's, there's,

all of these businesses really are.

They're all alive and thriving, yeah.

But it's not like masses of people around me in cars.

I love it.

Yeah, yeah, it's very, really cool.

So, yeah, it's awesome.

And, and some of the iron wrought work and all that,

it just, you can see that people put a lot of money into this town.

Yeah, for sure, yeah.

And bringing it back, right, that's a big theme is that like a lot of these

buildings sat decayed for a long time.

You mentioned tunnel systems.

What's that about?

Yeah, so right below, right where we're standing right here,

so connecting a lot of these, um, older structures, a lot of these older

buildings, there's a network of tunnels.

and so at least for part of those, I know that they were originally

built, um, for a lot of your executives in the petroleum industry.

So that they can safely navigate between, like, their places of residence, and then

also, you know, the banks and different buildings and wherever they worked at.

in the 1920s.

There was, um, a lot of abducting of really wealthy people and so that was

a means that they could, provide safe passage for them and their families

. Paul Comfort: We've been driving through Tulsa.

Now we get out of the car and take a walking tour of the city.

Join Chase and I in downtown Tulsa.

how big is the downtown area would you say?

I mean, give us a scope of where

we're standing here.

Yeah, it's about, downtown Tulsa is about a square mile.

Okay.

So that's, that's, and it's really defined by the interstate highway

system, the interdispersal loop.

Um, that's, so it's got a very definite geographic boundary.

downtown Tulsa has really, um, come a long way in the last two decades.

We've made a lot of, um, quality of life improvements, a lot of economic

activity and investments, and just trying to bring people into downtown.

Um, if you go, you know, three blocks east of here, you've got

developments that just simply didn't exist in the 90s, and now it's a

great place that people want to live.

You see families moving into downtown, um, it's all about placemaking,

transit, transportation, all of that.

is all a part of the equation that's bringing Macon Tulsa.

So, like, right where we're standing here, in front of

this big tower, over to our right is a place that says Daily Grill.

Now that looks like, the graphics on it looks like it could be from the 1920s.

And then right next to it is a fancy new place.

It's like they're blending it all together, updating.

It's really cool looking here.

Yeah, for sure.

Americana, kitschy, uh, nostalgic.

Art Deco, Punk Deco, a guy told me they're calling some of the

stuff that's out here on Route 66 a

very unique place, man.

I wasn't joking when I said, like, Route 66, that whole period is very

much a part of our culture and identity.

Um, we promote it everywhere we can, so Americana, we really capture

that spirit, uh, in modern day life.

So, Chase, Route 66 goes right through the heart of

Tulsa, and you've got an amazing transit system here that includes

a bus rapid transit or BRT line.

It's called the Aero, which I think is cool.

A E R O.

Kind of a throwback to how you had the biggest airport in

the country back in the 30s.

But tell us about the new BRT line you have planned for Route

66, hopefully in time for its centennial celebration in two years.

Absolutely, yeah, so, um, we're very excited about, um, the role

in that integration of bus rapid transit.

Um, and Route 66.

So, um, so a little bit of backstory.

So our BRT, um, our vision for the BRT, um, is really to introduce a lot

of Tulsans to public transportation.

But then as just a functional piece of transportation, um, we really

see the BRT as this connection point for all of our other services.

So we have microtransit, that's kind of a new type of service

that we've introduced to Tulsa.

Then we also have our existing local bus service.

Um, we really see the BRT as being, um, uh, an anchor point, if you will,

for a lot of those other services.

to feed into

. Paul Comfort: So your town is really, in my mind, going through a resurgence

and transit is at the center of it.

Oh, absolutely.

I mean, I, I would really say, um, a lot of the economic activity that we have.

Really is centered around, well, I do want to say the transit is

certainly playing a part of that.

So, here's a, and here's a good way to look at it.

So, with our first BRT, we had a lot more pushback.

People really weren't that excited about it.

Um, we had neighborhoods that said we don't want BRT

stations anywhere close to us.

With the second BRT, our Route 66 BRT, that's now planned and designed.

Completely different story.

People are asking for stations.

We have city councillors kind of jockeying to have it extended

into their district farther.

A totally different approach and experience for us than

what the first BRT was.

And transit is obviously a huge part of that.

Transit success is a huge part of that.

Yeah,

And we got a bus coming by us now.

Tulsa Transit.

You're gonna re, re, uh, re logo all them, right?

With the new name?

Yep.

Yeah, we are.

Now Chase and I are ready to dive down into the

tunnels underneath the city.

They're open, you can walk through them, but a lot of people don't know about them.

Chase knows the ins and outs of all the tunnels, and we walked

through, through several buildings in downtown Tulsa and popped up

into amazing, fabulous architecture.

You can check out the photos in the show notes of this podcast.

Here we go.

Yeah, so the tunnel system, um, that was, got lots of history.

Um, kind of built, much of it was constructed, I believe in the 1920s.

So, we're going to enter that now.

We're going down a staircase with brass handles on the side.

It's dark.

We're going into a really dark tunnel with lit up on the sides.

Cameras everywhere and pictures of what these buildings

used to look like.

and we're in a tunnel right now.

Yeah, so you actually saw in that picture back there, so that WIMP, so the top of

that tower is actually, I believe it was designed as a moor for For the blimp?

Yeah, for the airships.

And there are definitely a couple pictures that are kind of historical that are older

that show kind of the blimp flying around.

I don't know if one ever actually moored on that spot, but we'd

like to think that it was.

So we're

in these tunnels underneath downtown Tulsa, and

we're going to pop up inside.

What?

Uh, one of the other towers, right?

So, um, I believe the Philcaide Tower, um, is the one this tunnel will jump

right up to, but again, these are this 1920s architecture, um, deriving from

the oil boom that really, the Route 66 era, where Tulsa became Tulsa.

So, we're gonna, you know.

Mid continent tower.

Mid, yeah.

Mid continent tower.

So, the funny thing about mid continent towers, this one, you'll see a lot

of the pictures, and you'll see part of this building, and it's not

really as tall as what it is today.

Uh, it actually was, uh, had like another 20 floors added on

top of it, cantilevered over.

So, um, it's a very old building, but it was extended.

so we're seeing a lot of this architecture architecture That's

just very much a part of Tulsa's

identity.

So we're inside like a bank and it's got phenomenal chandeliers

that look like they're in an old.

I don't know how you would even describe that the ceiling

artwork You don't get this

anymore.

No in

buildings.

You know, the ceiling artwork looks like we're in some kind of fantastic

Castle or something, a western castle.

Yeah, yeah, lots of preservation and communities valuing

things that have been previously built, built by other generations.

A lot of that preservation is really prominent

here.

Yeah, that's a great way to say it.

Preserving things that were built by other generations.

yeah, so we're in Midcontinent Tower.

Um, you see some There's an old barber shop right there.

Yeah, uh huh.

So look at the stained glass.

Beautiful stained glass.

It's really pretty.

It's portraying the city skyline.

Yep.

Amazing.

Marble, uh, ceilings, walls, floor.

Wow.

This was money.

Big money.

Yeah.

And the titans of industry.

A big, uh, statue in front of us of men twisting an

oil rig.

Yeah.

Yeah, for sure.

So we're sitting here at the uh, Grille

415 Tulsa.

This

is just, I can't even describe how it looks, but it's like the

oldest, coolest hotel you've been in.

And a little grill here.

You said you used to

eat here?

Yeah, I used to come down here a lot and grab a burger.

So, how did you get into all this kind of work, transportation?

You worked here at the NPO, right?

Uh, I did, yeah, yeah, yeah.

So, um, I don't know, that's kind of an interesting question.

I got into transportation probably when I, I lived in Washington State, actually,

and a friend got me a job with the DOT.

And so I worked in the state engineering office.

Uh, randomly, I was in Portland, picked up a book about city planning, I didn't

know what city planning was at that time, fell in love with it, um, we decided to

move back to Oklahoma, um, I went back to grad school for city planning, right

after that got a job with NPO in Tulsa.

Um, yeah, I don't know.

I fell in love with people, and places, and things that connect

them, and that was really kind of how I am here in transit now.

That's interesting.

So Jessica Mefford Miller, the CEO in Phoenix at Valley

Metro, we were just with her, and she has her degrees, like, in geography.

Uh huh.

And she said it was the same thing.

It was the marriage of the place, the people, and now the mobility between it

that really made her fall in love with it.

Yeah, for sure.

Same story for me.

Yeah.

And so then, how long did you work for the MPO?

I worked there about five years.

And you work right here in downtown in all these cool buildings, that's

how you know about all the tunnels.

Absolutely, oh yeah, I think about, I mean, I know a

lot more about Tulsa's history than a lot of Tulsans, to be honest.

So it's because I'm working in downtown, I'm interacting with these pieces of

history, right, and yeah, for sure.

I just became a student in my environment.

And so

then, what happened, uh, you got attracted to the transit system

and wanted to go and work for them?

Yeah, I actually, so while I was working for the NPO, I actually, And

I was the one that tasked with a lot of the transit projects while I was there.

And so that was really, I've been working with Tulsa Transit for the

better part of the last decade.

Um, but only formally for the last three years.

what's your vision as the planning director?

What do you, what do you, what do you see as fulfilling

the board and Scott's vision?

How do you see your role kind of implementing that?

Yeah, sure.

Um, I'll, I'll tell you one of the biggest things that I really want to

do, um, whether this is formally as a Um, an employee with Tulsa Transit

or not, I, I want to convince Tulsans that transit service is essential,

and we need to be invested in it.

We're doing lots of things to address really important issues in our

community, housing, um, people who are experiencing homelessness, all of that.

Transportation is a crucial component to all that, that just can't be ignored.

Um, the more we invest in transit, the more we're investing in our community

and our people, you know, providing ladders of opportunity for them.

And so, I'm just wanting to convince Tolson's of that more.

That's great.

Yeah.

And what do you think the best way is to do that?

For somebody listening who's in a planning department, you

know, in uh, Tucson, or wherever.

You've been doing this a while.

What's the way to convince people that transit is, uh, you know, a solution?

What I call the gospel of transit.

Yeah, well they have to get on the bus, right?

So people don't believe something until they get on there and see it.

And so, the more people that actually get on the bus Or the BRT.

The BRT, that's, that's, that's part of the education.

Or the microtransit, right?

Or microtransit, yeah, for sure.

So they have, we have to get them to use it, but telling a story, right?

We have to make sure that we're capturing their heart.

You know, tying, making that connection between that neighbor that they,

they care so much about, who's going through a difficult time in life.

Right.

And tying that story to the value of public transportation.

And what is the most fulfilling part of your job to you?

I know we've talked about you want to message this out.

What makes you feel like my values and my work are fully integrated?

I'm self actualized.

I'm Maslow's hierarchy.

What fulfills you the most being a player?

Being a public servant.

That's gotta be it.

I love working for city government, local city government, but I very much

think of myself as a public servant.

Um, I think of my job as it's tax funded, I'm providing a service to my

community, um, there's accountability that goes on with that, and expectations.

So I really, I feel a lot of value, personal value,

because I'm a public servant.

you've been really involved this week at the Southwest

Transit Association Conference here in Tulsa hosting it with about 550 folks

from the eight Southwestern states.

Rich, the CEO has done a great job of pulling this together.

What did you take out of the conference?

What did you hope other people saw here from Tulsa as they go home that

they can, you know, learn from and then take back to their own cities?

Oh, yeah, I mean, well, transit agencies in general, the Southwest

Transit Association just seems to be a really tight knit group of people, right?

And so, um, one, connections are one of the biggest things that

you're gonna get out of this, right?

Relationships, um, sharing ideas, and so that's always the forefront

of one of my takeaways, but I'm also just glad, um, and happy to share

my city with other communities.

Um, I'm proud of Tulsa, and we want more people to love Tulsa as well and share.

Um, sharing quite the gem that it is to the world.

Yeah, it's, it's, uh, it's been a revelation to me.

What an amazing city you've got here.

I'm excited for the work you're doing to not just put transit in

place, but to integrate it into this theme that your city has of bringing

people together in a better way.

Thanks, Paul.

Hi, this is Tris Hussey editor of the transit unplugged podcast.

Thank you for listening to this week show with our special guest.

Chase Phillips.

Now coming up next week on the show, we have a special panel, all about

hydrogen and hydrogen fuel cells.

We have Kirt Conrad of SARTA.

And Tim Sasseen of Ballard Power systems telling us all about how

hydrogen and hydrogen fuel cells.

Could be the fuel of the future.

For public transit.

Hey, have you connected with us on social media?

We're on LinkedIn, Facebook, Instagram, and acts.

Give us a shout we'd love to hear from our transit community.

If you have a question comment, or I'd like to be a guest on

the show, feel free to email us anytime@infoattransitunplugged.com.

Transit unplugged is brought to you by Modaxo at Modaxo.

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We're passionate about telling those stories.

So until next week, Right.

Safe and ride.

Happy.