1 00:00:00,049 --> 00:00:01,859 Hey, welcome to Stuck Not Broken. 2 00:00:01,859 --> 00:00:03,330 I am Justin Sunseri. 3 00:00:03,330 --> 00:00:07,430 I'm a licensed therapist and a self-regulation coach, and this 4 00:00:07,430 --> 00:00:08,859 episode is a little different. 5 00:00:09,439 --> 00:00:10,550 My third book is out. 6 00:00:10,550 --> 00:00:13,280 It's called Stuck Not Broken Book Three. 7 00:00:13,700 --> 00:00:14,700 It's available right now. 8 00:00:14,700 --> 00:00:17,340 You can grab it at stucknotbroken.com/books. 9 00:00:18,860 --> 00:00:21,670 Rather than tell you about the book, I wanna show you. 10 00:00:22,289 --> 00:00:24,309 I'm gonna read you a section from it. 11 00:00:24,740 --> 00:00:29,669 This one is about meditation, specifically why I think you're meditating wrong, 12 00:00:30,389 --> 00:00:33,990 and I know how that sounds, but hear me out before you come for me, please. 13 00:00:34,689 --> 00:00:39,590 This section, um, gets into what meditation actually is when you look 14 00:00:39,590 --> 00:00:44,349 at it through a nervous system lens, what it means to connect with your 15 00:00:44,349 --> 00:00:48,650 present moment experience instead of rejecting it, why clearing your mind 16 00:00:48,910 --> 00:00:54,169 misses the point, and why quality matters way more than quantity. 17 00:00:55,000 --> 00:00:58,340 If you've ever sat down to meditate and felt like you were failing at 18 00:00:58,340 --> 00:01:00,979 it, or if you're well-versed in meditation and just open to new 19 00:01:00,979 --> 00:01:02,939 ideas, then this episode's for you. 20 00:01:03,670 --> 00:01:04,649 So let's get into it. 21 00:01:06,060 --> 00:01:06,890 You're meditating wrong. 22 00:01:06,890 --> 00:01:10,410 I know it's almost sacrilege to say that you're meditating wrong. 23 00:01:11,140 --> 00:01:13,399 It's a very personal experience, right? 24 00:01:13,850 --> 00:01:18,770 It's highly individualized, different from person to person, I totally agree, and 25 00:01:18,770 --> 00:01:21,210 yet I also think you're meditating wrong. 26 00:01:22,270 --> 00:01:26,969 Can we agree on this simple, simple definition of meditation? 27 00:01:28,100 --> 00:01:32,560 Meditation is connecting with your internal experience of the present moment. 28 00:01:33,660 --> 00:01:37,079 Meditation is more than mindfulness of your senses. 29 00:01:37,740 --> 00:01:40,999 Meditation brings your conscious awareness to your felt 30 00:01:40,999 --> 00:01:43,259 experience of the present moment. 31 00:01:44,570 --> 00:01:47,570 The felt experience of the present moment includes what your senses 32 00:01:47,570 --> 00:01:52,940 tell you, yes, but meditation also includes the other felt experiences 33 00:01:52,940 --> 00:01:56,030 within you that you typically neglect. 34 00:01:57,570 --> 00:02:01,980 These include the body-level sensations of your emotions, such as 35 00:02:02,369 --> 00:02:05,640 heaviness when sad or heat when angry. 36 00:02:06,830 --> 00:02:11,410 Meditation can also reveal your polyvagal state's impulses, like 37 00:02:11,410 --> 00:02:16,859 collapsing from shutdown or tightening your fists from sympathetic activation. 38 00:02:17,920 --> 00:02:21,080 Meditation is about anchoring into safety, staying connected to the 39 00:02:21,080 --> 00:02:25,490 present moment, and consciously allowing your body's experience. 40 00:02:26,949 --> 00:02:31,080 So perhaps we need to extend our simple definition of 41 00:02:31,080 --> 00:02:32,839 meditation with this agreement. 42 00:02:34,310 --> 00:02:37,710 Meditation is connecting with your internal experience of the 43 00:02:37,710 --> 00:02:40,620 present moment, whatever it brings. 44 00:02:40,620 --> 00:02:42,050 That's the addition, whatever it brings. 45 00:02:43,400 --> 00:02:47,790 At least we can agree that this is an ideal of meditation that you and 46 00:02:47,790 --> 00:02:50,070 I will constantly fall short of. 47 00:02:50,879 --> 00:02:55,299 As a friend once told me, "The present moment is not always a pleasant moment." 48 00:02:56,320 --> 00:03:00,540 Okay, so let's get back to why I think you're meditating incorrectly. 49 00:03:01,589 --> 00:03:03,060 Rejecting the present moment. 50 00:03:03,879 --> 00:03:07,670 When you meditate, I assume you're rejecting what comes 51 00:03:07,670 --> 00:03:09,460 up in the present moment. 52 00:03:10,280 --> 00:03:15,860 I assume you reject loneliness or regret, for example, when they arise. 53 00:03:16,769 --> 00:03:19,780 When you feel the impulse to clench your fist, you tell yourself that 54 00:03:19,780 --> 00:03:22,229 you shouldn't do so or feel that way. 55 00:03:23,390 --> 00:03:26,570 When you feel the heaviness of shutdown, you tell yourself to get over it. 56 00:03:28,030 --> 00:03:29,159 This is not meditation. 57 00:03:29,159 --> 00:03:29,589 Excuse me. 58 00:03:29,589 --> 00:03:32,979 It's not our... It's not the ideal version of meditation. 59 00:03:33,379 --> 00:03:37,570 It's a start, a fantastic start, and we can build from there, no doubt. 60 00:03:39,110 --> 00:03:39,829 Not thinking. 61 00:03:41,269 --> 00:03:44,509 I also bet you think meditation means not thinking. 62 00:03:45,570 --> 00:03:48,560 Do you think meditation involves clearing your mind? 63 00:03:49,409 --> 00:03:53,020 This is a common misunderstanding in the meditation world, in my opinion. 64 00:03:54,420 --> 00:03:57,959 According to our ideal definition of meditation, clearing your mind 65 00:03:57,959 --> 00:04:02,500 would be a rejection of what arises cognitively in the present moment. 66 00:04:03,470 --> 00:04:05,739 And if you're rejecting an internal experience, that's 67 00:04:05,739 --> 00:04:07,569 not really meditation, is it? 68 00:04:09,030 --> 00:04:12,420 Well, Justin, how can I connect with my internal experiences 69 00:04:12,420 --> 00:04:14,640 if my thoughts won't shut up? 70 00:04:15,449 --> 00:04:16,489 That's a great question. 71 00:04:16,489 --> 00:04:17,440 It's a valid question. 72 00:04:17,830 --> 00:04:22,649 Your thoughts quieting down are a result of connecting to the present moment. 73 00:04:23,209 --> 00:04:24,530 Your thoughts are not the problem. 74 00:04:24,979 --> 00:04:28,229 The problem is rejecting your thoughts and trying to control them. 75 00:04:29,339 --> 00:04:32,679 When you allow and witness your thoughts, you reduce the friction 76 00:04:32,679 --> 00:04:37,310 of fighting them, and they will naturally calm down as a result. 77 00:04:38,729 --> 00:04:42,429 Have you heard the meditative invitation to watch your thoughts 78 00:04:42,429 --> 00:04:45,005 as they- Float through your mind. 79 00:04:46,475 --> 00:04:48,774 I like that, that idea a lot more than stopping your 80 00:04:48,774 --> 00:04:50,095 thinking or clearing your mind. 81 00:04:50,885 --> 00:04:55,854 But again, watching them float through your mind is a result of 82 00:04:55,854 --> 00:05:00,535 connecting to the present moment, not a skill in and of itself. 83 00:05:01,834 --> 00:05:04,754 When you're anchored enough in safety, your thoughts will calm and float on. 84 00:05:05,924 --> 00:05:09,754 You'll watch them out of curiosity without judging or banishing them. 85 00:05:10,875 --> 00:05:13,395 We are thinking beings, so let's not reject that. 86 00:05:14,334 --> 00:05:17,855 Allow your brain to have words and images and memories and logic 87 00:05:17,855 --> 00:05:19,434 and calculation and creativity. 88 00:05:20,195 --> 00:05:22,695 Yes, even when you meditate. 89 00:05:23,684 --> 00:05:28,515 In my deepest meditative experiences, I've found that my cognition, my thinking, 90 00:05:28,515 --> 00:05:31,205 is still fully functional but different. 91 00:05:31,615 --> 00:05:33,984 It's calmer, it's more open, more curious. 92 00:05:35,034 --> 00:05:38,934 As I lead clients through the upcoming sequential skills in book three, 93 00:05:38,934 --> 00:05:43,245 they can still think and talk to me while they deeply explore the inner 94 00:05:43,274 --> 00:05:44,934 experience of the present moment. 95 00:05:45,734 --> 00:05:52,244 The words don't go away, nor do I believe we should try to force them to go away. 96 00:05:53,655 --> 00:05:55,155 Quality over quantity. 97 00:05:56,445 --> 00:06:00,184 When one meditates, they often do so for a set amount of time, 98 00:06:00,184 --> 00:06:01,884 perhaps as a daily ritual. 99 00:06:02,165 --> 00:06:03,275 A daily ritual. 100 00:06:03,814 --> 00:06:04,324 Excuse me. 101 00:06:04,954 --> 00:06:06,405 Time is not our concern. 102 00:06:06,765 --> 00:06:09,714 It doesn't matter to me whether you meditate for thirty 103 00:06:09,714 --> 00:06:11,204 seconds or thirty minutes. 104 00:06:12,104 --> 00:06:14,515 The quantity of meditation is not important. 105 00:06:14,835 --> 00:06:17,144 However, the quality is highly important. 106 00:06:18,025 --> 00:06:21,555 Our meditation goal is to connect honestly with the present 107 00:06:21,555 --> 00:06:22,775 moment, whatever it brings. 108 00:06:22,775 --> 00:06:26,674 So, if you genuinely connect with your inner, inner world for thirty 109 00:06:26,674 --> 00:06:28,254 seconds, you have met the goal. 110 00:06:29,125 --> 00:06:32,134 If you sit and try to block your thoughts or feelings for thirty 111 00:06:32,134 --> 00:06:34,045 minutes, you have not met the goal. 112 00:06:35,134 --> 00:06:38,905 The skills in this book, Stuck Not Broken Book Three, are sequential. 113 00:06:39,494 --> 00:06:43,025 It doesn't matter to me how long it takes you to execute them. 114 00:06:44,184 --> 00:06:47,335 If you try today, it'll probably take longer, and you may not 115 00:06:47,865 --> 00:06:49,314 get very far, in all honesty. 116 00:06:49,765 --> 00:06:52,294 If you practice the same sequence of skills each day, 117 00:06:52,294 --> 00:06:53,725 you'll get further and further. 118 00:06:54,575 --> 00:06:58,725 Some days it will take longer, some days it'll go quicker, and that's, that's okay. 119 00:07:00,144 --> 00:07:03,924 It doesn't matter to me, or it also doesn't matter to me, how many skills 120 00:07:03,924 --> 00:07:05,725 you use during a meditation practice. 121 00:07:06,885 --> 00:07:10,555 If you try a new skill today, you'll probably only get a couple 122 00:07:10,555 --> 00:07:12,215 of steps down the sequence. 123 00:07:13,004 --> 00:07:14,835 This isn't because you're doing anything wrong. 124 00:07:14,835 --> 00:07:19,335 It's perhaps because the skills further down the skill sequence are just 125 00:07:19,335 --> 00:07:22,094 too difficult for you as of today. 126 00:07:22,094 --> 00:07:22,975 Just, just for now. 127 00:07:24,404 --> 00:07:28,745 I prefer that you be honest with yourself about what you can handle. 128 00:07:29,594 --> 00:07:32,754 If you can handle only the first couple of skills, then that's fine. 129 00:07:32,754 --> 00:07:33,374 Embrace it. 130 00:07:33,990 --> 00:07:34,650 Master those. 131 00:07:35,510 --> 00:07:38,069 Focus your efforts on those skills and master them. 132 00:07:38,100 --> 00:07:43,170 As you do, the skills further down the sequence become much more possible. 133 00:07:44,720 --> 00:07:48,830 Let's not worry so much about how meditation should or should not be. 134 00:07:48,830 --> 00:07:50,770 Let's focus on what is. 135 00:07:51,729 --> 00:07:55,750 Instead of saying, "I should be clear-minded," what if you thought, 136 00:07:55,750 --> 00:07:57,240 "My thoughts are scattered"? 137 00:07:58,600 --> 00:07:59,450 You just told the truth. 138 00:07:59,450 --> 00:08:02,139 One statement is a reject-- is a should and a rejection. 139 00:08:03,200 --> 00:08:06,860 The other is an acknowledgment of the truth in the present moment. 140 00:08:08,720 --> 00:08:09,419 We don't fight it. 141 00:08:09,419 --> 00:08:14,069 We let it be while staying anchored in safety and asking what our felt 142 00:08:14,069 --> 00:08:15,849 experience is in the present moment. 143 00:08:17,160 --> 00:08:21,169 It's far more beneficial to inquire about the internal experience 144 00:08:21,430 --> 00:08:26,720 driving scattered thoughts than to try to force clear-mindedness. 145 00:08:27,770 --> 00:08:31,099 As you anchor in a, into, if you, as you anchor into and build safety, 146 00:08:31,099 --> 00:08:34,970 excuse me, this way of thinking spontaneously emerges, by the way. 147 00:08:35,540 --> 00:08:39,109 To sum it up, when I say you're meditating wrong, I mean you're 148 00:08:39,109 --> 00:08:40,829 trying to make it a certain way. 149 00:08:40,829 --> 00:08:42,910 You're, you're rejecting the present moment. 150 00:08:42,910 --> 00:08:45,979 You're cutting off internal avenues of connection. 151 00:08:45,979 --> 00:08:51,570 You're more focused on the time spent meditating or on using more skills 152 00:08:51,570 --> 00:08:54,200 than on the quality of the experience. 153 00:08:55,079 --> 00:08:59,289 But Justin, aren't you giving us a bunch of shoulds in your 154 00:08:59,289 --> 00:09:01,350 sequential skills approach? 155 00:09:01,350 --> 00:09:04,689 A fair question, uh, that you ask skeptically, and no, 156 00:09:04,689 --> 00:09:05,969 the answer is no, not really. 157 00:09:06,350 --> 00:09:07,210 You can do whatever you want. 158 00:09:07,380 --> 00:09:12,579 Uh, I'm gonna give you answers to the questions of what, how, and why. 159 00:09:13,600 --> 00:09:17,049 The skill sequence and the book and everything we do inside of the academy 160 00:09:17,049 --> 00:09:22,030 is really built on answering these questions that people have asked over 161 00:09:22,030 --> 00:09:26,700 and over again, uh, trying to bring, bring clarity to the experience of or 162 00:09:26,700 --> 00:09:29,729 the process of, uh, self-regulation. 163 00:09:30,780 --> 00:09:33,179 So I'm not saying you should do it this way or that way. 164 00:09:33,179 --> 00:09:38,719 I'm saying that the upcoming blueprint in book three is more effective at 165 00:09:38,719 --> 00:09:43,130 achieving the idealized version of meditation that we agreed on earlier. 166 00:09:43,829 --> 00:09:47,710 And it's probably more beneficial than what you're probably doing, such as 167 00:09:48,109 --> 00:09:52,169 rejecting your thoughts and feelings or trying to shut your thoughts up 168 00:09:52,169 --> 00:09:53,529 for thirty minutes every morning. 169 00:09:55,219 --> 00:09:57,029 Realistic incremental progress. 170 00:09:58,630 --> 00:10:03,150 I'm not expecting you to achieve our idealized version of meditation today. 171 00:10:04,749 --> 00:10:08,949 I don't even expect you to sit silently and close your eyes. 172 00:10:09,350 --> 00:10:12,600 That might be too much, and it's very common for someone 173 00:10:12,600 --> 00:10:13,770 stuck in a defensive state. 174 00:10:14,779 --> 00:10:17,880 The moment they immobilize and close their eyes, they're open to 175 00:10:17,880 --> 00:10:19,350 danger, or at least experientially. 176 00:10:20,770 --> 00:10:23,380 Or when they look inward, they're immediately met with 177 00:10:23,380 --> 00:10:25,320 the pains waiting inside. 178 00:10:26,475 --> 00:10:30,065 Realistically, this won't be a home run for you in your first at-bat. 179 00:10:30,525 --> 00:10:35,065 You won't get unstuck by doing just one meditative session. 180 00:10:35,065 --> 00:10:36,525 Realistically, it'll be challenging. 181 00:10:37,475 --> 00:10:39,645 Realistically, it might even be triggering. 182 00:10:40,584 --> 00:10:42,644 Realistically, you're gonna feel like you're failing. 183 00:10:43,365 --> 00:10:46,375 So let's validate all of that right now and normalize it. 184 00:10:46,465 --> 00:10:50,935 Heck, we'll even eventually allow those experiences to exist. 185 00:10:52,355 --> 00:10:57,714 Instead of expecting to nail it on the first go or the second or the third, fully 186 00:10:57,714 --> 00:11:00,534 expect to try, pause, then try again. 187 00:11:00,594 --> 00:11:01,344 You're not failing. 188 00:11:02,054 --> 00:11:05,534 The fact that you're learning and attempting and practicing is a huge win. 189 00:11:05,534 --> 00:11:06,194 Huge. 190 00:11:07,164 --> 00:11:11,425 Every attempt builds or reinforces a skill, just like practicing anything else. 191 00:11:12,484 --> 00:11:16,045 You can't hit a baseball without missing a lot of times, right? 192 00:11:16,435 --> 00:11:19,464 As you swing and miss, you'll eventually hit the ball a little, and even if it 193 00:11:20,104 --> 00:11:22,765 goes behind you or off to the side. 194 00:11:23,754 --> 00:11:26,234 As you keep practicing, you'll eventually hit the ball forward 195 00:11:26,694 --> 00:11:28,964 within the field's, uh, boundaries. 196 00:11:30,095 --> 00:11:33,265 Eventually, you may even hit the ball over the fence for a home run. 197 00:11:34,115 --> 00:11:38,365 The same idea applies to drawing a portrait, playing a ukulele, 198 00:11:38,365 --> 00:11:40,954 scrambling an egg, and writing a haiku. 199 00:11:42,735 --> 00:11:46,284 No matter what you're learning to do, you'll quickly realize that to 200 00:11:46,284 --> 00:11:52,125 get better, you'll need to make minor adjustments to the individual acts. 201 00:11:52,704 --> 00:11:53,814 So back to hitting a baseball. 202 00:11:54,324 --> 00:11:56,445 It's not enough to just swing. 203 00:11:57,534 --> 00:11:58,924 You need to adjust your stance. 204 00:11:59,454 --> 00:12:04,115 You need to step forward appropriately and angle your body as you swing the bat. 205 00:12:05,165 --> 00:12:06,774 Hitting a baseball isn't a skill. 206 00:12:06,774 --> 00:12:12,134 It's the result of an accumulation of much smaller skills plus practice. 207 00:12:12,534 --> 00:12:14,935 And before practicing, you gotta, you gotta learn. 208 00:12:16,004 --> 00:12:17,125 Unstucking is no different. 209 00:12:17,814 --> 00:12:19,585 It's not a skill that you use today. 210 00:12:19,585 --> 00:12:23,985 It's the result of practicing several smaller skills that you learn first, 211 00:12:24,574 --> 00:12:29,004 which will eventually lead to unstucking your defensive state through practice. 212 00:12:29,935 --> 00:12:34,364 You're not gonna get unstuck today, sorry to say, but can you learn something new? 213 00:12:34,364 --> 00:12:38,705 Yeah, you're doing it right now by reading this book or listening to this podcast. 214 00:12:39,084 --> 00:12:41,084 Can you practice one of the upcoming skills? 215 00:12:41,084 --> 00:12:42,205 No doubt you can. 216 00:12:43,455 --> 00:12:46,435 As you practice these skills, you're not gonna fail, b- uh, but you 217 00:12:46,435 --> 00:12:48,584 might decide to stop or to pause. 218 00:12:49,395 --> 00:12:53,905 You can stop and come back whenever you're ready, whenever you're ready to, which 219 00:12:53,905 --> 00:12:55,425 I will describe in the next section. 220 00:12:56,505 --> 00:12:57,785 Do you risk overwhelm? 221 00:12:57,955 --> 00:13:01,685 Yeah, you do, in all honesty, but, um, the priority is staying 222 00:13:01,685 --> 00:13:06,255 anchored in safety, which should redis- reduce the risk of overwhelm. 223 00:13:06,255 --> 00:13:09,614 And, and there are some guardrails built into book three and its 224 00:13:09,614 --> 00:13:11,675 practices, uh, to prevent overwhelm. 225 00:13:12,485 --> 00:13:15,464 Even if you do experience overwhelm, that's not a failure though. 226 00:13:15,464 --> 00:13:19,634 It's an opportunity to learn and to make an adjustment to 227 00:13:19,634 --> 00:13:21,664 your next intentional practice. 228 00:13:23,699 --> 00:13:24,569 Okay, that is it. 229 00:13:24,569 --> 00:13:25,249 That's the section. 230 00:13:25,249 --> 00:13:30,129 And if that landed for you, there's a lot more where it came from. 231 00:13:30,410 --> 00:13:32,919 Stuck Not Broken Book Three is available now. 232 00:13:33,158 --> 00:13:37,108 The book walks you through a sequential skills approach to 233 00:13:37,108 --> 00:13:41,789 getting unstuck from a defensive state step by step, skill by skill. 234 00:13:41,818 --> 00:13:43,289 It's not about doing it perfectly. 235 00:13:43,808 --> 00:13:46,699 It's about learning and practicing and building from 236 00:13:46,699 --> 00:13:48,419 where you actually are right now. 237 00:13:49,378 --> 00:13:53,478 You can get the book at stucknotbroken.com/books, 238 00:13:53,548 --> 00:13:57,318 along with the first two as well, stucknotbroken.com/books. 239 00:13:58,039 --> 00:14:02,269 Thank you so much for listening. 240 00:14:02,789 --> 00:14:02,989 Bye.