This episode of Worlds Collide is about studying abroad

>> Viktoria: Hey, everyone.

Thank you for tuning in to a new episode of Worlds Collide, the podcast where I talk to people who moved abroad. And this episode is about studying abroad. It's actually such a big topic, about moving abroad in general. It's like the first step to dip your feet into a new place, kind of.

And, yeah, In this episode, my guest is Abby from the US, and she talks about why she wanted to study abroad and how it was for her. So we have recorded this episode a few months ago. That was before I watched the final season of the Crown, because otherwise I would have been familiar with the place you went to?

Yes. You went to St. Andrews in Scotland. Yeah, duh. Me for not knowing the place, but now I do and. Sounds amazing. But also, we talk about moving back to the US after being away for such a long time and how that experience was for her. And Abby has a YouTube channel called Political Psych with Abby. And you will find the link in my show notes. but here is the interview.

>> Viktoria: Hi, Abby. How are you today?

>> Abby: I'm good, and you?

>> Viktoria: I'm good too. Thank you for being on my podcast. where are you from originally?

>> Abby: so I'm originally from a suburb of Boston in Massachusetts, in the US.

>> Viktoria: Okay. But you want to talk about your time in the UK.

>> Abby: Yeah. so when I was 18, I moved to St. Andrews, Scotland, to go to college.

>> Viktoria: Okay, where is St. Andrews?

>> Abby: It's like an hour and a bit from Edinburgh. It's on the.

>> Viktoria: Okay.

>> Abby: Yeah.

It's this really beautiful medieval town with, like, I mean, it's got a really old university and it's got, like, a ruined castle and a cathedral and cliffs overlooking the ocean. It's just gorgeous.

>> Viktoria: It sounds like Scotland, like how you imagine.

>> Abby: Absolutely, yeah. Just storybook. Pretty.

>> Viktoria: Yeah.

>> Viktoria: and why did you choose?

>> Abby: I mean, it's interesting because I think it's more that I chose the university. Right. because I was doing the standard college application process. and I did apply some places in the US too. Actually, a lot of places. I probably applied to too many places. but I also did the thing they have in the UK where you apply to five universities and you only have to do, like, one fee and take, I don't know, there's not even additional test. They take your AP scores instead of your a levels, which is what it would be if you were british. and there's a whole bunch of other stuff. I applied to Oxford too, and there's a whole bunch of extra stuff for Oxford. And Cambridge, but we don't have to get into. And I was, I'd been given advice by, a now unfortunately, former friend of my mother's. he basically said, like, when I was in high school, he was like, okay, you're really intellectually curious. You have these good test scores and you write good essays. but your grades aren't totally perfect, and it varies a lot, subject to subject, right?

>> Abby: And UK universities, they want you to be well rounded, but they don't expect you to be as perfectly well rounded good at every subject as american universities. Right?

>> Abby: Uh-huh.

>> Viktoria: Okay.

>> Abby: also, my mom's a professor here in the US, and I wanted to go somewhere where she wouldn't know people and where I wasn't, because I was already a little bit jaded to the american university system, even at 18, because I had grown up around universities. Right, okay. and obviously, coming from the Boston area, there are so many universities around there. I didn't apply anywhere within 300 miles of Boston. Basically, I think the closest place I applied was like, Virginia. and so the UK, it was like, yay, I got to go far and experience something totally different and get to have an adventure. And, it depends on where in the US and if I had had a scholarship. But for me, it definitely didn't end up being like a worse financial decision to go.

>> Viktoria: Yeah, yeah, I guess nobody knew your mom.

>> Abby: No, actually, no. There was like one professor in a totally different department who had worked with my mother, but. Okay. my undergrad was psychology and modern history, and my mom's a physicist.

>> Viktoria: Okay.

>> Abby: I had lunch with this woman a couple of times and she was super nice. And I had a tough time my freshman year, and she helped me settle in and everything. So it was actually good that she was there, but she absolutely wasn't one of my professors or anything. but it was funny that there was still someone who knew my, No, it was, it was a wonderful experience. So that's sort of why I moved to the UK. and then I stayed in the UK for another year after undergrad. I was doing a master's in political psychology. and that one was more geographically nebulous because it was during the pandemic.

>> Viktoria: Okay. were they both, right next to each other, or was it like a break when you went back to the US?

>> Abby: Oh, you mean in time. Yeah, I did go to the US for a little bit in the summer of 2020, which was really weird because no one was traveling.

>> Viktoria: Right.

>> Abby: Yeah, I was a us citizen with a UK visa I could. And I had family to see and everything, so I went back for the summer, but I basically went straight into a master's after undergrad.

>> Viktoria: Okay.

When you first came to Scotland, what was your reaction like

And so when you first came to Scotland, what was your reaction like? Because you just mentioned you kind of had a hard time in the beginning.

>> Abby: Yeah. So, I mean, I had been to Scotland before, and I had even been to St. Andrews before. being the kid of an academic, I got to travel a lot growing up, especially in Europe. so I had been to St. Andrews when I was like, eleven, and then I had come back there again to tour colleges. so I knew the place. Okay. and it wasn't like a huge culture shock, moving to the UK from most of the US, because honestly, I think that there are parts of the US that are less like Boston than the UK is, if that makes sense.

>> Viktoria: Yeah, no, I understand. I think probably especially, like, on the east coast. New England. Yeah, there are probably places where you can.

>> Abby: Yeah.

Yeah. I did have a lot of trouble settling in my first year, though, because it was the first time I had had to make all new friends since I was literally like nine or ten years old.

>> Viktoria: Right. Yes.

>> Abby: and I wasn't like a super happy person in middle or high school. honestly, I was kind of a killjoy most of my childhood.

>> Viktoria: Okay.

>>Abby: And I had sort of been waiting for college for my life to really start and to really start enjoying things. And I put way too much pressure on myself to make all these friends and have all this fun, just like immediately, where it sort of gave me this existential cris and I had a series of panic attacks.

>> Viktoria: Oh, God, no.

>> Abby: Yeah. Which was. That was a total nightmare. so, I mean, it was really good that, my mom's friend, was there because they had to bring me to the doctor's office.

>> Viktoria: Okay, sure. You did not know how that works. Completely different. Yeah.

>>Abby: I mean, I hadn't really navigated anything medical on my own.

>> Viktoria: Right.

>> Abby: Because I was like, eight. that was really difficult. I mean, honestly, I think I probably would have had the same experience or a very similar experience at basically any college. Okay. I don't think it was really caused by being in the UK, if that makes sense.

>> Speaker A: Okay, so you would have had the same experience if you were in the.

>> Speaker C: I mean, I think maybe if I had gone to college really close to my family, I would have had the option to retreat to my family rather than forcing myself to keep going. but I'm glad that I forced myself to keep going. Right. And that I couldn't just go home.

>> Speaker A: Yeah. And how long were you in Scotland for?

>> Speaker C: Four years.

>> Speaker A: For four years? That's quite a time.

>> Speaker D: Yeah.

>> Speaker C: I mean, the issue with the panic attacks and stuff, that only went on for a couple of months. By the end of my first semester, I was basically. And I really loved living there and everything, and I went home for a lot of vacations and stuff, so it's not like I didn't see my family for four years.

>> Speaker A: Yeah.

Was it different living there than visiting? Yeah. It's definitely different living somewhere than visiting

so you said there was not a lot of culture shock because you already went a few times before, but was it different living there than visiting?

>> Speaker D: Yeah.

>> Speaker C: Oh, no, it's definitely different living somewhere than visiting somewhere. And one thing that's really funny to me is a lot of people were like, oh, I get it. I've done a study abroad. And I'm like, no, you did a semester surrounded by other Americans. I lived a place. Right. These are different, but not disparaging. Study abroads or whatever. I think that's, like, an awesome thing. But it just totally,

>> Speaker C: There was some difference. It's tough because it was also, like, my first time really living independently, so it's tough to say which was from which.

>> Speaker A: Right, right.

>> Speaker C: but no, I mean, there was definitely. Well, one thing that I thought was really interesting is so british people are generally a little less outgoing than Americans. but they expect Americans to be outgoing.

>> Speaker A: okay.

>> Speaker C: So that kind of forced me out of my shell a little bit. And one thing that's sort of nice is if you're in a position where you are a foreigner, it's almost a little bit liberating because you can be a little bit weird, and people will assume that it's a cultural thing rather than you being, like, a total weirdo.

>> Speaker D: Okay.

>> Speaker A: yeah.

>> Speaker C: so that was sort of good. and I guess the other things are like, I don't know, it wasn't so much like culture shock. I mean, I had to get used to. The grocery stores are way smaller, but I honestly like that better.

>> Speaker C: I, guess, I don't know. The food took some getting used to, but mostly it was the food in dorms that I didn't like. Like, scottish food is actually okay, especially if you're in a place like St. Andrew's, because the ingredients are all really fresh. So it doesn't have to be that complicated because the food is very good quality.

>> Speaker D: Uh-huh.

>> Speaker C: but if you're in a dorm, the food is horrible.

>> Speaker A: Okay, maybe m that's part of the dorm too.

>> Speaker C: Yeah. I mean, especially if you're like me. at the time, I just didn't eat beef, but now I don't eat mammals at all. And a lot of that is for health reasons. And I didn't necessarily have the same health stuff at the time, but I've never been able to digest meat that well.

>> Speaker C: and so that was tough, honestly.

>> Speaker A: It was like, because was there just like limited options?

>> Speaker C: Yeah, very limited options.

>> Speaker C: In the dorms, there was usually maybe like one vegetarian option per meal, and there were three types of potatoes, and sometimes the vegetarian option would just be an additional type of potatoes.

>> Speaker A: Right. Okay. So you had like, potato dishes on your, ah, plate.

>> Speaker C: The vegetarian option would involve, like, a lot of beans and. I really don't like beans.

>> Speaker A: Oh, yeah. Great. No, sorry.

>> Speaker C: Yeah. I guess that was sort of the main stuff. also, it was really nice to get to experience universal health care for the first time. That was a really big change. Not so much like culture shock, it's just like a really nice thing. It was almost more of a culture shock coming back to the US and having to deal with care here. Yeah, I'm very lucky in that my mom has very good health insurance from work and has had it my entire life. And she would go with me to medical appointments when I was a child. Right. So I didn't really have to deal with it so much when I was actually a kid. But then I moved back to the US when I was 23, having never lived here full time as an adult and having never really navigated the american health care system for myself.

>> Speaker A: Right.

>> Speaker C: And here I am, I'm an adult, I have an american accent. I have no idea what's going, uh-huh to having. I think I mostly get it now, but I had to explain to people in medical offices, I was like, hey, I used to live in the UK. They do things totally differently. I don't know how to do your forms, please help.

>> Speaker A: Right, well, it's always the same form over and over.

>> Speaker C: It is, it is. It's crazy. I mean, it definitely made me like, I was never really against universal health care, but I definitely became more for it living in the.

>> Speaker A: Yeah, yeah.

>> Speaker C: And the NHS is hardly a perfect know, it's very underfunded, but it's a lot better than the american system.

Scotland has universal health care, but some people are trying to change it

>> Speaker A: So how did you have, insurance in Scotland? Does every student has it automatically when they come?

>> Speaker C: Well, so the way it works in the UK is basically. Well, I mean, there are some people who really hate immigrants and stuff, who are trying to change this. But mostly if you're a person, you will receive health care, or you're supposed to, because they have universal health care.

>> Speaker D: Okay.

>> Speaker C: as part of a student visa, you have to pay a fee to be on the universal health care. but that's basically like a flat fee and it's supposed to subsidize the health care system. It's like a way the government makes money. But even that amount of money, which was supposed to be not just paying for my health care, but subsidizing other people's health care, was still way less than my mom was paying for me for health care in the US.

>> Speaker A: Yeah, right.

>> Speaker C: Unfortunately, I had to keep my american health care going so that because I would be home for a couple of months each year.

>> Speaker A: Do you want to have it?

>> Speaker C: Just in case I still have to have, like. What's really awful is there was this girl who I knew during my master's, who was american, who basically couldn't go back to the US, partially because this was during the pandemic. Know the chances that you're going to get really sick and end up in hospital? Way higher. who couldn't go home because she couldn't afford to get supplemental health insurance for being in the US.

>> Speaker A: Oh, man. Yeah.

>> Speaker C: which is just awful.

How long was it in between your masters or like between England and Scotland

>> Speaker A: How long was it in between your masters or like between England and Scotland?

>> Speaker C: Well, basically, well, it's all a bit complicated because during the last month or two of my undergrad Covid hit.

>> Speaker A: Okay.

>> Speaker C: Yeah. So I prolonged my stay in Scotland a little bit. I actually moved in with my then boyfriend, now husband, because it was a choice of move in together or possibly be separated. And we made the right decision, but it was dramatic.

>> Speaker A: I bet, yeah.

>> Speaker C: So we stayed in Scotland for a little bit longer, and then I went back to the US for a little while to visit family, but maybe like eight weeks. And then I went back to the, my master's was in Canterbury, in England, and I did have a, ah, room there, but I actually spent a lot of the time that year, with my husband's family, because all my classes ended up being online and a completely empty university campus is a really great place to be. and my husband was still finishing up his undergrad and a lot of his classes were online too. So we spent some time in his parents place in London. But right at the start of the pandemic, they bought a place in Hastings, which wasn't renovated at all. It was a super old house, and I was so glad they bought it because their place in London is lovely, but did not have room for enough for everything.

>> Speaker A: I imagine it's really tiny. Yeah, it is.

>> Speaker C: I mean, it's a very nice house, but, to give you an idea, my husband's childhood bedroom has, like, a very narrow twin bed in it, and you can just about stand next to it with the door closed.

>> Speaker A: Yeah, I can't imagine. Tiny, small.

>> Speaker C: Yeah. We stayed with them a bit during the pandemic, and I was sleeping in, my husband's parents office, which was not a tenable situation because, his mom is like a lawyer for the government and his dad is a doctor, not doing stuff directly related to Covid, but let's just say they were both very busy and needed that home office. right, but what I was going to say. So we mostly spent most of the time during the pandemic in Hastings, even though my master's was in Canterbury. so I would say. I mean, I basically lived there continuously, right from my undergrad to my master's. I went home in between, but there was never a time where I didn't have a UK visa, if you know what mean.

>> Speaker A: Okay.

>> Speaker D: Ah.

>> Speaker A: And what was your decision, then, of going back to the,

>> Speaker C: Basically I didn't actually know that there was a very new program that because I did a master's would have allowed me to stay in the UK and work, but I wasn't aware of.

>> Speaker A: Okay.

>> Speaker C: and there are times where I regret not having been aware of it.

>> Speaker A: Okay.

>> Speaker C: So we moved to the US. basically the thinking at the time. So my husband ended up not really going into academia, but the thinking at the time was that he was going to go into academia and he's going to do a master's. And if you're going to work in academia, the US is arguably a little bit better for that. And I'm very interested in politics and specifically american politics, so I wanted to be in the US for that.

>> Speaker A: Okay.

>> Speaker C: So we were, okay, like, I'll work in the US. And, you don't need to get a visa because you won't need to get an additional visa because you're in school, and that comes with a visa if you just get in, right?

>> Speaker C: and so he did a master's, here in Chicago. and that's why we moved to Chicago.

>> Speaker A: okay.

>> Speaker C: Yeah. so basically he came to the US for me, but I came to Chicago for him. But I love Chicago as a city, so I was really glad.

>> Speaker A: Because he is. So I'm just always thinking when I'm talking to people with, relationships from two different places, it's like, marriage comes up really quickly.

>> Speaker C: Yeah.

>> Speaker A: And since your husband was not american.

>> Speaker C: Yeah. Near the end of his master's, we were like, okay, so we definitely want to get married. We should get married quickly because we also need to do all the visa stuff that has to do with getting because. And it was a complicated case because he needed to transfer from student visa stuff. And then the extension, you get to work after grad school in the US to the being married to me visa and all of that is still ongoing, and there were lawyers fees, forms, and the poor guy still can't go back to the UK and visit his family.

>> Speaker A: They take so long.

>> Speaker C: They take so long. Like, genuine advice for anyone who marries someone from another country. Hire your immigration lawyer immediately. We actually had a difficult time finding one. and we almost did the wrong things. So, like, get a lawyer, you need a lawyer. and, we tried to do a lot of the forms ourselves, and it ended up going okay. I think. It seems like everything's going to be approved on, knock on wood.

>> Speaker A: It's not final.

>> Speaker C: It's unlikely to go horribly wrong, but it did take a lot longer. So I would advise people, if you can afford it, just have the lawyer do everything.

>> Speaker D: Uh-huh.

>> Speaker C: It will save you so much difficulty. Honestly, we have been through a pandemic together, and the toughest thing for our relationship was the forms for the.

>> Speaker A: Yeah, but does he have, a work authorization?

>> Speaker C: Yeah, he can work within the United States. It's equivalent to him on being on a green card. But he hasn't gotten the parole permission thing to go visit.

>> Speaker A: Right. He's not a free man.

>> Speaker C: Yeah, it's terrible. the US immigration system is awful. And, I mean, we're best case scenario, right? It's not like an instance where one of us is a refugee or coming from a lot of poverty, or, the US is an allied with. This is someone who came here on a student visa, to a prestigious university and married an american and is from an allied country, and they're still doing all this.

>> Speaker A: It should be like a quick, no brainer kind.

>> Speaker C: of. It's really not.

>> Speaker C: Yeah, it will be fine. But it was incredibly stressful.

His permission to work came in just before his student visa expired

I mean, his permission to work came in, a couple of days before his, permission to work from his student visa expired.

>> Speaker A: How stressful is that?

>> Speaker C: It was incredibly stressful. Oh, my God, it's terrible.

>> Speaker A: Yeah, I think they do it on purpose.

>> Speaker C: I don't know. yeah, it's really unpleasant.

>> Speaker A: Yeah.

Would you consider going back to the UK once all that paperwork is through

Okay, so, once all that paperwork is through, would you consider going back to the UK?

>> Speaker C: Maybe. But that's a whole other set of paperwork and lawyers. Because once we were here and we knew we were going to be together forever, we were basically like, okay, do we want to be in the US or the UK? Because, unfortunately, we were dealing with all of that while I was unemployed, too. M which was awful. my first job out of my master's was terrible. Never be the first hire at a nonprofit. Yeah, no, seriously, genuine advice for listeners. Have the first place you work, have an HR department.

>> Speaker A: Okay.

>> Speaker C: It wasn't the first job I ever had, but it was the first job I had where I wasn't a student working a summer job.

>> Speaker A: The first serious job.

>> Speaker C: Yeah, it was terrible. Anyway. right. so we were thinking about it, and the thing is, basically we're in a situation where for the US, there's income requirements to sponsor someone. but you can get a family member to co sponsor someone's immigration. So I wasn't making enough money at the time, sponsor my husband. But my mom was like, okay, yeah, I mean, he's not going to end up being a financial burden and you make sense together. So she signed on to sponsor, but in the UK, you can't do that, and you have to prove that you've been making a certain amount of income, which I think is even higher than the US, for a certain length of time.

>> Speaker A: Okay.

>> Speaker C: And it's a lot of, lot. A lot of money. You can be in a position where you're doing okay financially and it's still not enough money. I, can't remember the exact numbers, and you technically can do it off savings, but it's a really high number for savings, and the savings have to be all in the name of the person who's sponsoring for a long time, and you can't get co sponsors. and we're both relatively young, and he was a student at the time and I had just graduated. and so it was not financially tenable to do the going to the UK thing, for him to sponsor me there. And that becoming something that's financially possible is still pretty distant for, like, if I got a really good job offer in the UK and he didn't have to sponsor me, sure, that'd be great. I would move back to the UK. I like it here. I mean, I really like Chicago specifically. and so does my, I mean, we'd be open to moving back to the UK someday, but it's just like, it's financially and legally complicated. I do not want to go through immigration stuff any, like, another time. Yeah.

>> Speaker A: Yeah. That's understandable. You're still in it. Still in the process. The other way around.

How was reverse culture shock when you first came back to Chicago

And how was your reverse culture shock when you first came back? To mean?

>> Speaker C: It was super. Wasn't. I'm not originally from Chicago, so moving to a really different part of the country, too? I don't know. It's really weird. I mean, it feels like a very different America than the one I left. But I was out of the country. I mean, I came back for vacations and stuff, but I didn't live in the country for the entire Trump administration and much of the pandemic. So it is a different country than what. So, I mean, it's weird, honestly. I would say the main things that have been, like, the reverse culture shock are like. I mean, honestly, the healthcare system is a huge one.

>> Speaker C: And then the other one is like, I feel like people here are more workaholics than in the UK.

>> Speaker A: Okay.

>> Speaker D: Yeah.

>> Speaker A: there's a different work and life balance.

>> Speaker C: Yeah. Like, Americans, I think a lot of them are kind of workaholics. but I think some of that might just be the fact that I was in college when I was in the UK, so people were a little bit more chill. but I mean, I work at a university now, and it's very different than the university I went to.

>> Speaker A: Okay. I hear that a lot. Mostly from people who are from America and they move to Europe. They said the work and life balance in Europe is more chill because at 04:00 they go home and then the workday is over.

>> Speaker C: Yeah, I wouldn't say it's like 04:00 in the. No, but I think it is more of, like, there's a certain level of more, like, workaholicness. But I don't know, I mean, there's some nice things. people are pretty friendly and outgoing here. I mean, part of that is like, it's the midwest, so it's like a part of the US that's notorious for. Right.

>> Speaker A: Yeah.

>> Speaker C: Like, it's more than where I grew up.

>> Speaker D: Right.

>> Speaker C: On the east coast.

>> Speaker A: Right.

>> Speaker C: and then the other thing is the public transit isn't as good.

>> Speaker A: Yeah. But you're in Chicago. you're still in the top three.

>> Speaker C: Yeah. Within the city, it's good. Although I live on the south side and if I want to get to other places on the south side, it's a nightmare. Like I have to go through downtown.

>> Speaker A: Okay. That's like, I don't know, takes some time, I guess.

>> Speaker C: Yeah.

>> Speaker A: Not that familiar with Chicago. I've been there once and that's a long time ago.

>> Speaker C: Yeah.

>> Speaker C: But it's mainly like if I want to go to a small town that's 50 miles outside the city, it's much harder here than it would be in the UK. Right.

>> Speaker C: In the parts of Scotland I was living in, even really small towns a lot of the time had bus access and things in a way where there isn't really here.

>> Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, especially in the suburbs, you have to have a car just to get to the bus stop.

>> Speaker C: Yeah, exactly. And, I'm still, in the process of learning how to drive. And I mean, in the neighborhood where we live in Chicago, it doesn't make financial sense to drive or to own a car.

>> Speaker C: But it is a weird thing, like when we go on vacation.

>> Speaker C: But, it's funny though, because we've gotten really into taking Amtrak places, because we both really enjoy long train rides and stuff. But it's very funny because we went to, about a year ago we went to St. Joseph, Michigan, which is a lovely little town on Lake Michigan and is accessible by train. but I think they expect you to, even if you come by train to rent a car because we got in there and it's definitely walking distance from the train station to our hotel. It was like a 50 walk and it was raining, but it's like, well, it's okay, we're going to somewhere warm and dry, right? You just get wet. I think that's also part of the UK is like.

>> Speaker A: Water.

>> Speaker C: It's just water, right. We showed up right at the hotel check in desk with just like backpacks, having been in the rain with no car. And they were like, are you okay?

>> Speaker C: everything's fine. And this has happened too, where we've gone to places by train, where we're staying in a place that's technically a motel because a lot of more affordable hotels are motels here. Right. And they always try and give you the sticker for your car or, tell you where to park like five times. We don't have a car. You don't have to tell us where to put the car. We do not have a car. Yes.

>> Speaker A: And then they give you that paper where you have to fill out the license plate.

>> Speaker C: It's like, we don't have a car. We took the train here.

Is it a lot more expensive in the US to travel by train

>> Speaker A: But is it also, a lot more expensive in the US to travel by train?

>> Speaker C: Isn't, honestly, british trains are really expensive. They did a weird semi privatization thing. Uh-huh and in the US, you can actually get really good deals on Amtrak, especially in and out of Chicago because a lot of the trains are really long distance trains.

>> Speaker A: You have to live in Chicago.

>> Speaker C: Yeah. From the east coast and Amtrak is more expensive there. But we're going from here to Buffalo for two people for like $100.

>> Speaker A: That's not bad at all.

>> Speaker C: Yeah, no, it's really not that bad. plus, there's a problem here where the trains get delayed constantly, but then you can get your money back from Amtrak. So I haven't paid full price in quite some time because I keep getting vouchers from previous delayed.

>> Speaker A: But do you, have to transfer or do you always take direct trains?

>> Speaker C: basically, always direct. I mean, the thing is that there aren't that many routes that intersect, especially in this part of the country. So we usually plan around where you can get by train, if that makes sense.

>> Speaker A: Okay. All right. So you're planning accordingly. You're not going to take something complicated?

>> Speaker C: Yeah, because the thing is, that's one of the issues with the american train system, is that there just aren't that many intersections between the train lines, especially in the middle of the country, except in like, if you want to get from the west coast to the east coast, you're almost inevitably going to have to go through Chicago.

>> Speaker A: But that is good for you. So you have more options?

>> Speaker C: Oh, yeah, it's great for us. It's terrible for the rest of the country.

>> Speaker C: Honestly, to take trains in this country, you have to treat it as being about the journey, kind of.

>> Speaker A: Yes, exactly. It's an adventure.

>> Speaker C: Some of the ones on the east coast that are more efficient and less commonly delayed and, mean. And the train system in the UK is definitely better. Like, it goes to a lot more places. but it's also, honestly, a lot of the time it is, I think, more expensive, but I think if I was on the east coast of the US, it would be more comparable.

St. Andrews, where you went to college, is 15% north american students

>> Speaker A: And, just, circling back when you were in the UK, I had this one more question. how did people usually react to you? I mean, you already said they expected of you, that you're really outgoing, but did they have, like, a general idea about Americans?

>> Speaker C: Yeah, I was in the interesting position of, like, so St. Andrews, where I went to college, is like, 15% north american students. Okay. I was hardly ever the first american someone had met or even like, the first american they interacted with that day, necessarily. I mean, there were stereotypes of Americans, specifically at St. Andrews, which were like, that you studied international relations, which I didn't. I studied psychology and modern history. and there were definitely some Americans who mostly hung out with other Americans. And I absolutely wasn't that only a couple of my friends from college are american. but I think that was sort of, like, the main things people assumed about Americans, I guess, specifically for american students at St. Andrews, they sort of assumed you had, because. And that's not a totally unfair assumption, because St. Andrews is a wonderful university, but is not great about scholarships for foreign students.

>> Speaker A: Okay.

>> Speaker C: There are a lot of scholarships and different pricing structures, and the loan system works differently and everything. If you are british or even european. but if you're from the rest of the world, there just aren't that many scholarships that would allow you to go to St. Andrews that you're eligible for. so I would say that's sort of the main thing, I guess. Also, people expect Americans to dress a certain way that's different than Brits.

>> Speaker D: Uh-huh.

>> Speaker C: But I mean, a lot of this is true. The whole wearing, leggings and athletic gear when you're not going to the gym is much more common among Americans than it is among people in the UK, or at least people at St. Andrews.

>> Speaker A: Athleisure.

>> Speaker C: Yeah, athleisure stuff.

>> Speaker A: Right?

>> Speaker C: yeah. So I would say those are sort of the main things. I mean, it was definitely interesting to be there during the 2016 election.

>> Speaker A: I bet.

>> Speaker C: Because.

>> Speaker A: Did you get a lot of confrontation about, like, hey, how did they vote like that?

>> Speaker C: No, it's not really confrontation during the election, it was mostly like Brits mocking the Americans.

>> Speaker A: Yeah.

>> Speaker C: But once it happened, there was mostly a level of, like, I'm sorry, are you okay?

>> Speaker A: Yeah.

>> Speaker D: Uh-huh.

>> Speaker C: You know what I mean?

>> Speaker A: Yeah.

>> Speaker C: which was interesting.

>> Speaker A: But was it kind of overwhelming, that reaction? I mean, that you got that a lot?

>> Speaker C: Yeah, I mean, I didn't find it that overwhelming, I think, because there were enough Americans there that we sort of shared the load. Right, right. and it all felt extremely surreal because, after the 2016 election, I mean, that was in November, and I didn't go home until December. Right. fairly late December because of when the vacations were, And it was so strange when I playing touchdown in Boston, I was like, it's still, yeah. it was. It was honestly, but, like, it was also funny because I constantly had this thing of, like, when I was in the UK, people would ask me to explain Trump, and when I was in the US, people would ask me to explain. I mean, I have a YouTube channel about political psychology, so I can go into depth about these things, but the answer to both is mostly racism.

>> Speaker A: what is the name of your YouTube channel?

>> Speaker D: Political.

>> Speaker C: psych. With Abby.

>> Speaker A: Okay. And, I make sure, that I will put this in the show notes that everybody can check this out.

>> Speaker C: Thanks.

>> Speaker A: Yeah, for sure. It's interesting stuff.

John says when people leave America, it's always about political reasons

I really enjoyed the environmental anxiety episode.

>> Speaker C: Thank you.

>> Speaker A: yeah, because, when I, for example, read comments about, Americans and the expat channel, the subreddit m. And it is always politically, everybody, when they say, oh, yeah, I'm going to leave America, I live in Europe, it is always, just about political reasons.

>> Speaker C: Yeah. I mean, it wasn't that for me. that's not why I left. I mean, I'm one of those try and stay and make it better until you have to run people. and until you have to run. That is something I keep track of. My family, is european, jewish. my grandmother fled the Nazis, so I, can tell you, I know exactly where my passport is at all times. yeah. but what, was I going to say? I didn't move for political reasons. and there's this whole issue of, I think people think, oh, if you don't love it, you can leave it. But it is actually really hard to immigrate to a different country.

>> Speaker A: Yeah.

>> Speaker C: I had an easier situation than most, right. Because I was, like, on a student visa, which is one of the. At least if you're from an allied country, one of the easier visas to get. Yeah, I guess it is genuinely hard to move to a different country for most people. Right. So, yeah, I mean, I didn't move for political reasons. It's funny, though, because a lot of things in the UK are really politically bad, especially since I moved back to the. I mean, it's been going downhill for a long time, but.

>> Speaker C: Since I moved back to the. It's funny, like, I used to apologize to my husband. I'm like, I'm sorry I brought you to this country. It's going crazy. But now I'm like, you know what? I'm getting used from the UK. I'm not sorry anymore.

>> Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. I think that too. It's like, especially in Europe, the political climate is bad in most places. It just gets worse and worse lately.

>> Speaker C: A lot of the time, people don't realize, right, there are things that are better in the UK politically, right? Like they have gun control, they have universal health care, these sorts of things. But their politics is trending into some frighteningly right word directions right now, and the limitations they have on protest there. And that sort of thing is really upsetting.

>> Speaker C: they're dismantling a lot of their environmental policies. Things are not well in UK politics right now. But I think the issue is a lot of Americans, and this isn't really individuals fault. A lot of it has to do with media coverage and things. A lot of Americans are really not aware of what's happening in the rest of the world politically.

>> Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, it's true.

>> Speaker C: Yeah. I guess there's this idea, at least about most countries in western Europe, where you just sort of assume, well, it must be better there because I'm not hearing about it.

>> Speaker A: Yeah, but exactly. It's true. The media coverage is really limited unless something really bad happens or something really big happens versus the other way around. I feel in Europe, people always know what's going on here.

>> Speaker C: Oh, yeah. No, I have a friend from college who's from South Africa, and she was just like, I'm just so sick of hearing. I mean, it doesn't affect me that much, and there's not very much I can do about it. And I just want to be paying attention to the news of what's happening in my home country, which I can actually affect and do things about. And I'm like, that's totally fair to some extent, what happens in America does affect everywhere, right? But it shouldn't be the duty of random people half a world away to know or care about american politics. That. Right?

>> Speaker A: Like, yeah, it's funny. sometimes we watch, the german equivalent of John Oliver here, like, satire shows, and a lot of times it's american topics. It's like, american politics. And I'm like, okay, m. I already heard that in English. Now I can listen to it again in German.

>> Speaker D: Yeah.

>> Speaker C: I think part of that is that american culture is so influential globally, right?

>> Speaker D: yeah. Ah.

>> Speaker C: And it's funny because I'll have people be like. And like, friends who aren't native english speakers. They'll be like, your accent is so easy to understand because you sound like tv.

>> Speaker A: True. Yes, this is how it sounds. That's true.

>> Speaker C: I mean, Americans will describe my accent as chronic NPR voice.

>> Speaker A: But, that's a compliment.

>> Speaker C: Yeah, I guess.

Is there anything that you miss from the UK that you're back in America

>> Speaker A: and, but since you are back in the US, is there anything that you miss from the UK?

>> Speaker C: Oh, definitely. I mean, I miss really old stuff. Like, I'm a huge history geek. okay. And there's some really cool old stuff in the US, because there's really fascinating stuff from native american cultures and stuff, but a lot of that's not as well preserved. So I miss a lot of the really old buildings and stuff. so I miss that kind of thing. I miss savory pies. That's a big thing.

>> Speaker A: Thanksgiving is coming up. Should make like a savory one.

>> Speaker C: Mushroom pie. That's not really something. Get here as much. I mean, I miss fish and chips. M I mean, I miss fish a lot, but I think that's like just living in the midwest. Having lived on coast my whole.

>> Speaker A: I was, I was just thinking like, you can't get that anywhere. But, maybe not in Chicago.

>> Speaker C: Lake fish and you can get frozen salmon, obviously I cooked it, but I had frozen salmon for dinner tonight. but more fish and fresher fish is not really something you can get as much. so I guess those are sort of the main things. yeah, I don't know. I think it's mostly people I miss, like specific friends of mine.

>> Speaker C: yeah, I would say it's mostly like people.

>> Speaker C: And obviously the good public transit I miss.

>> Speaker A: Yeah, okay.

>> Speaker C: Yeah. But I would say that's sort of the main stuff.

>> Speaker A: one of my first episodes I made, I also had an american woman. She moved to England and she said a thing that she cannot get used to it, that, the british people always run into you. They don't look where they're going.

>> Speaker C: Yeah, I don't know. I don't think I really had that issue so much. I mean, I'm very clumsy, so I run into people sometimes wherever I am. and, my husband and I tend to bump into each other a lot, but I'm very clumsy and he has dyspraxia, so I don't think that's really a cultural thing. Okay.

>> Speaker A: I thought you had that experience too, because I never heard of that before.

>> Speaker C: No, I don't really think so. as much. I mean, it probably depends on where in the uk you're living. I don't know. It's not really an experience. I mean, when I was living in, like, I was in a pretty small town, so there tended to be a fair amount of space. and then I was living in England, but during a global pandemic where people were social distancing, people were not really bumping into each other very much. I will say the worst thing in terms of people being in my way that I experienced when I was in the UK is that St. Andrews has, like, a very famous golf course. I think it might be, like, the oldest in the world or something.

>> Speaker A: Okay.

>> Speaker C: And, golf tourists are the world's worst tourists. and I say that as someone who has worked in the tourism industry, and they would stand on fairly narrow sidewalks with their golf bags sideways, just, like, blocking the entire sidewalk while people were trying to get to class. But those were mostly not Brits. Like, a ton of those were, like, Americans.

>> Speaker D: Okay.

>> Speaker A: It's just the okie bags. Thank you very much for your time. Thank you for being on my podcast.

>> Speaker C: Yeah, it's been fun.

>> Speaker A: Yeah. I hope you do really well on your YouTube channel.

>> Speaker D: Thank you.

>> Speaker C: I got to over a thousand subscribers.

>> Speaker A: Oh, that's awesome. Congratulations. That's a big achievement.

>> Speaker C: I think the next one is going to be about the dangers of looking at politics in terms of polarization. So I don't know if that'll be out before this episode comes out.

>> Speaker A: probably, I will.

>> Speaker D: I will probably take.

>> Speaker B: Yeah, that was evie's experience of studying in the UK and moving back to the US as an adult and bringing back a husband. That also needs a lot of paperwork, which is never fun. yeah, make sure to check out her YouTube channel that you can find in the show notes. And, yeah, I will be back with a new episode next Thursday. Until then, you can find all other episodes wherever you listen to podcasts. And if you like this show, please leave a good review. And, yeah, also, feel free to reach out at worldscollide. One, two, three, pod@gmail.com or you can also find me on Instagram, worldscollidepod. One word. yeah, maybe you also want to tell me your story.

>> Speaker D: Bye.

>> Speaker B: And I also want to say thank you to search Corando for the music. I will. Or, no, you will hear from me next week. Bye bye. See you soon.

>> Speaker D: Here soon. Talk soon.