1 00:00:34,283 --> 00:00:37,163 W. Curtis Preston: Hi and welcome to backup Central's Restore it All podcast. 2 00:00:37,168 --> 00:00:39,653 I'm your host w Curtis Preston, AKA Mr. 3 00:00:39,653 --> 00:00:44,903 Backup and I have with me, my carpet demolition expert, Prasanna Malaiyandi 4 00:00:46,823 --> 00:00:47,978 Prasanna Malaiyandi: it going, Curtis, 5 00:00:48,293 --> 00:00:49,223 W. Curtis Preston: It's um, 6 00:00:49,628 --> 00:00:51,848 Prasanna Malaiyandi: so I have to say first, congratulations 7 00:00:51,853 --> 00:00:53,018 on being done with one room, 8 00:00:53,933 --> 00:00:55,643 W. Curtis Preston: one room out of six. 9 00:00:55,778 --> 00:00:57,758 Prasanna Malaiyandi: that's it's progress, right? 10 00:00:58,028 --> 00:00:58,808 It's progress. 11 00:00:58,813 --> 00:01:00,368 They say the first one's the hardest. 12 00:01:00,428 --> 00:01:01,658 And then the rest go faster. 13 00:01:01,663 --> 00:01:01,928 Right? 14 00:01:02,078 --> 00:01:05,108 W. Curtis Preston: Well, in my case, the first one is absolutely the 15 00:01:05,108 --> 00:01:09,368 hardest cuz it's the entryway and it's got like this rounded entryway and a 16 00:01:09,368 --> 00:01:10,838 lot of funky angles and everything. 17 00:01:10,843 --> 00:01:14,618 Everything else is a rectangle, like a normal house, but the front 18 00:01:14,618 --> 00:01:16,328 room was absolutely the hardest. 19 00:01:16,328 --> 00:01:18,278 And of course I did it as the first. 20 00:01:18,978 --> 00:01:22,898 Um, so yeah, but, but, and then I ripped up a bunch more carpet 21 00:01:22,898 --> 00:01:25,538 last night and uh, so, uh, 22 00:01:25,553 --> 00:01:27,833 Prasanna Malaiyandi: the kids who eat broccoli first, and then they 23 00:01:27,833 --> 00:01:28,973 eat all the yummy stuff after. 24 00:01:28,973 --> 00:01:29,303 Right. 25 00:01:29,543 --> 00:01:32,063 You get done with the bad stuff in the beginning and then everything else 26 00:01:32,078 --> 00:01:32,798 W. Curtis Preston: Exactly. 27 00:01:33,098 --> 00:01:33,398 Yeah. 28 00:01:33,398 --> 00:01:39,803 So, um, but do you have any further advice for me from your, your YouTube pals 29 00:01:41,463 --> 00:01:44,243 Prasanna Malaiyandi: for in terms of carpet repair or pulling 30 00:01:44,248 --> 00:01:45,533 up or anything else like that? 31 00:01:45,538 --> 00:01:46,423 No, not really. 32 00:01:47,328 --> 00:01:47,618 W. Curtis Preston: Okay. 33 00:01:48,098 --> 00:01:51,668 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Yeah, I got, I got nothing for you other, other 34 00:01:51,668 --> 00:01:53,768 than make sure your floors are flat. 35 00:01:54,098 --> 00:01:56,678 Make sure you don't work backwards or no, actually, I guess you 36 00:01:56,678 --> 00:01:57,638 have to work backwards this 37 00:01:57,878 --> 00:01:59,408 W. Curtis Preston: I have to work backwards in this one 38 00:01:59,408 --> 00:02:00,728 room, the one room I have 39 00:02:00,728 --> 00:02:01,628 Prasanna Malaiyandi: And okay. 40 00:02:01,628 --> 00:02:03,638 The only thing I will say is take breaks. 41 00:02:04,698 --> 00:02:05,348 W. Curtis Preston: Oh trust me. 42 00:02:05,348 --> 00:02:06,098 That's happening. 43 00:02:06,488 --> 00:02:06,938 I do. 44 00:02:06,968 --> 00:02:07,148 Yeah. 45 00:02:07,178 --> 00:02:08,528 Cuz I'm freaking old. 46 00:02:08,948 --> 00:02:14,318 And, and now that now that my doctor has informed me that I have bursitis 47 00:02:14,318 --> 00:02:17,648 on my knees, it just, who the hell? 48 00:02:17,648 --> 00:02:23,678 Like why, why did I get this idea of laying down my own flooring anyway, 49 00:02:24,008 --> 00:02:27,788 uh, you know, definitely falls into the category of I'm too old for this shit, 50 00:02:28,243 --> 00:02:32,123 Prasanna Malaiyandi: And, and just, don't go asking a flooring person how 51 00:02:32,123 --> 00:02:33,893 much it would've taken to install it. 52 00:02:33,923 --> 00:02:34,463 Okay. 53 00:02:35,003 --> 00:02:36,923 W. Curtis Preston: I already know, I have a quote this time. 54 00:02:36,923 --> 00:02:38,573 I know, I know how much I'm saving. 55 00:02:40,073 --> 00:02:40,463 yeah. 56 00:02:40,523 --> 00:02:43,073 But, but at this point I am like really 57 00:02:45,758 --> 00:02:46,868 Prasanna Malaiyandi: It's all good Curtis. 58 00:02:46,973 --> 00:02:47,573 W. Curtis Preston: Yeah. 59 00:02:47,663 --> 00:02:49,523 Uh, well, let's bring out our guest. 60 00:02:49,583 --> 00:02:53,813 He has been in it for over 20 years with an MBA from Temple University 61 00:02:54,233 --> 00:02:55,903 where he also managed infrastructure. 62 00:02:56,483 --> 00:03:00,413 He was in presales for several years and is now a lecturer in computer science 63 00:03:00,413 --> 00:03:02,513 at Montgomery county community college. 64 00:03:02,903 --> 00:03:05,073 You can read his blog@hayner.net. 65 00:03:05,423 --> 00:03:07,813 Welcome to the podcast, Chris Hayner. 66 00:03:09,118 --> 00:03:10,408 Chris Hayner: How's everybody doing today. 67 00:03:11,363 --> 00:03:12,263 W. Curtis Preston: Well, you know, 68 00:03:12,823 --> 00:03:13,663 Prasanna Malaiyandi: I'm doing well. 69 00:03:14,173 --> 00:03:14,623 I dunno about 70 00:03:14,933 --> 00:03:17,453 W. Curtis Preston: putting an ice bag on my knee, I'm doing great. 71 00:03:17,668 --> 00:03:17,848 Chris Hayner: Yeah. 72 00:03:17,848 --> 00:03:20,458 I feel like we should put out the it stuff to side and talk 73 00:03:20,458 --> 00:03:21,478 about this flooring situation. 74 00:03:21,888 --> 00:03:22,208 Some more. 75 00:03:22,798 --> 00:03:25,408 W. Curtis Preston: Yeah, luxury, luxury vinyl planking. 76 00:03:25,468 --> 00:03:26,578 That's what I'm all about. 77 00:03:26,668 --> 00:03:34,858 Um, replacing, uh, like carpet, tile and, uh, the, what do they call it? 78 00:03:34,858 --> 00:03:37,768 The laminate and the diner and the dining room. 79 00:03:37,828 --> 00:03:39,958 Like, so with one solid thing. 80 00:03:39,958 --> 00:03:40,138 Yeah. 81 00:03:40,138 --> 00:03:43,078 Anyway, it's, uh, it's a, it's a fun project. 82 00:03:43,078 --> 00:03:45,448 I feel a bit, a lot more fun if it was like, I Don. 83 00:03:46,063 --> 00:03:47,233 10 15 years ago. 84 00:03:48,418 --> 00:03:49,858 Chris Hayner: It was somebody else's knees. 85 00:03:49,873 --> 00:03:52,663 W. Curtis Preston: if I was doing this with my 40 year old body instead of 86 00:03:52,663 --> 00:03:56,233 my 55 year old body, but, uh, yeah. 87 00:03:56,233 --> 00:04:03,163 Anyway, so, uh, I, I know we brought you on, um, I don't remember how I came upon 88 00:04:03,168 --> 00:04:09,193 your, uh, your article, but we brought you on because you know, I read this 89 00:04:09,193 --> 00:04:15,053 article that speaks to something that I believe in, like I could have written 90 00:04:15,113 --> 00:04:17,363 the article just as much as you had. 91 00:04:17,663 --> 00:04:22,073 And that was this idea of, I, I think the title was, yes, 92 00:04:22,073 --> 00:04:23,723 you do need a password manager. 93 00:04:23,723 --> 00:04:24,683 Does that sound about right? 94 00:04:25,333 --> 00:04:27,733 Chris Hayner: Yes, Brett, you do need a password manager. 95 00:04:28,153 --> 00:04:29,143 Yes, you do. 96 00:04:30,038 --> 00:04:32,258 W. Curtis Preston: Yes, you, do you think you don't? 97 00:04:32,388 --> 00:04:35,868 For the record Prasanna and I both have password managers, actually. 98 00:04:35,873 --> 00:04:38,748 I think Prasanna has two don't you Prasanna. 99 00:04:38,883 --> 00:04:39,693 Prasanna Malaiyandi: just have the one. 100 00:04:40,308 --> 00:04:41,508 W. Curtis Preston: Oh, I thought you had the, I thought you 101 00:04:41,508 --> 00:04:43,098 had one for work and one for, 102 00:04:43,743 --> 00:04:44,133 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Nope. 103 00:04:45,033 --> 00:04:45,303 Yeah. 104 00:04:45,333 --> 00:04:49,863 So for home I have my own, but I took a different approach than you Curtis. 105 00:04:49,868 --> 00:04:51,003 I don't use a service. 106 00:04:52,548 --> 00:04:53,508 Chris Hayner: So you host your own 107 00:04:54,213 --> 00:04:54,513 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Yeah. 108 00:04:55,368 --> 00:04:57,618 W. Curtis Preston: I'm a da, I'm a Dashlane person. 109 00:04:57,708 --> 00:04:59,898 Uh, I don't know what you're using there, Chris. 110 00:05:00,588 --> 00:05:04,218 Chris Hayner: I have been last pass for the past couple of years, although, 111 00:05:04,368 --> 00:05:07,728 and one of the things that actually got me to think about this article 112 00:05:07,728 --> 00:05:11,298 that ended up being posted a few months ago was my renewal is coming up. 113 00:05:11,928 --> 00:05:14,268 So I was kind of exploring some of the other options in the 114 00:05:14,268 --> 00:05:16,608 marketplace and there's a lot, 115 00:05:17,328 --> 00:05:17,718 W. Curtis Preston: Yeah, 116 00:05:17,898 --> 00:05:21,648 Chris Hayner: um, you know, I, I did a quick check and I wanna say I got to 117 00:05:21,648 --> 00:05:26,748 around 40 different pot, uh, different password manager, softwares that exist. 118 00:05:26,838 --> 00:05:28,998 Some of them everyone's absolutely heard of. 119 00:05:28,998 --> 00:05:29,238 Right. 120 00:05:29,238 --> 00:05:30,558 Everybody's heard of Dashlane. 121 00:05:30,888 --> 00:05:32,598 Everybody's heard one password. 122 00:05:32,928 --> 00:05:35,628 Um, hopefully everybody's heard of last pass. 123 00:05:36,858 --> 00:05:38,958 You know, those are like the main players, but then there's 124 00:05:38,963 --> 00:05:40,608 a lot of little bit players. 125 00:05:41,673 --> 00:05:43,323 Bit warden is an open source. 126 00:05:43,323 --> 00:05:47,523 One that's pretty popular that you can also host your own with. 127 00:05:47,523 --> 00:05:51,483 And one of the things I think that makes it helpful is it's not that difficult 128 00:05:51,483 --> 00:05:53,313 to build these types of products. 129 00:05:53,553 --> 00:05:58,623 It's difficult to build them though with a feature set and a security reliability 130 00:05:59,253 --> 00:06:02,023 that people are going to be confident in. 131 00:06:02,358 --> 00:06:02,718 W. Curtis Preston: Yeah. 132 00:06:02,768 --> 00:06:05,948 Let's start, with why do we need a password manager? 133 00:06:06,428 --> 00:06:06,848 Right. 134 00:06:06,848 --> 00:06:08,288 Let's just, let's just start there. 135 00:06:08,288 --> 00:06:11,348 I mean, basically the whole purpose of your article, because there, you know, 136 00:06:11,348 --> 00:06:14,528 there are people we run into 'em and they're like, well, I don't, you know, I, 137 00:06:14,528 --> 00:06:17,318 you know, we, we should talk about like, why we need one and then we should talk 138 00:06:17,318 --> 00:06:21,878 about the, like the objection of, well, well, I feel that that puts all my stuff 139 00:06:21,878 --> 00:06:23,948 in one place that makes it easier to hack. 140 00:06:24,218 --> 00:06:24,548 Right. 141 00:06:24,548 --> 00:06:27,788 I'm worried that someone will get in and then they'll have my entire world. 142 00:06:28,178 --> 00:06:30,098 Uh, I think that's a valid concern. 143 00:06:30,103 --> 00:06:30,608 I just, I. 144 00:06:31,528 --> 00:06:34,718 I think that that any of the decent products have addressed that concern. 145 00:06:35,318 --> 00:06:40,538 Uh, and then, and then I think we can talk about like, um, basically, like you 146 00:06:40,538 --> 00:06:43,688 talked about the features, the features and function, like the ones that I, 147 00:06:43,928 --> 00:06:47,888 that I like a lot from Dashlane that, that made me choose it, some of which 148 00:06:47,888 --> 00:06:49,928 are now available in other products. 149 00:06:50,228 --> 00:06:53,888 Um, and, um, I think that would round us out. 150 00:06:54,368 --> 00:06:59,168 So let's talk about, let's talk about first, Chris, you know, what it, why. 151 00:06:59,708 --> 00:07:00,488 Why 152 00:07:01,378 --> 00:07:02,428 Chris Hayner: Just why just. 153 00:07:03,168 --> 00:07:04,108 W. Curtis Preston: that's just why 154 00:07:04,898 --> 00:07:10,418 Chris Hayner: Um, so the biggest reason is you are being required to get a username 155 00:07:10,418 --> 00:07:13,928 and password and log into pretty much every website that exists in the world. 156 00:07:14,558 --> 00:07:18,218 Now we can set aside whether that is necessary or advisable, 157 00:07:18,248 --> 00:07:19,478 but we have to do it. 158 00:07:20,198 --> 00:07:24,068 And if you don't use a password manager, what you end up doing 159 00:07:24,578 --> 00:07:29,288 inevitably is using the same password over and over and over again. 160 00:07:29,878 --> 00:07:30,228 W. Curtis Preston: Right. 161 00:07:30,608 --> 00:07:31,148 Chris Hayner: The trouble. 162 00:07:31,148 --> 00:07:35,948 There is a lot of the times when a website gets breached, that username and password 163 00:07:35,948 --> 00:07:39,998 combination becomes immediately available to anybody who wants to pay for it. 164 00:07:41,168 --> 00:07:44,828 And I've actually looked into this and it is really, really sad in terms 165 00:07:44,828 --> 00:07:49,538 of how much a hacker has to pay for a valid username and password combination. 166 00:07:50,318 --> 00:07:53,198 It starts out at less than one 10th of 1% per person. 167 00:07:53,378 --> 00:07:57,668 And it goes down to $0 because about a week after a breach, that 168 00:07:57,668 --> 00:07:59,048 information is publicly available. 169 00:07:59,588 --> 00:07:59,978 W. Curtis Preston: Right. 170 00:08:01,178 --> 00:08:01,538 Wow. 171 00:08:01,538 --> 00:08:02,648 Chris Hayner: Publicly available to 172 00:08:02,648 --> 00:08:03,068 W. Curtis Preston: Oh, I see. 173 00:08:03,128 --> 00:08:05,078 I see two, two people that know where to go. 174 00:08:05,258 --> 00:08:05,768 Chris Hayner: Yeah. 175 00:08:06,188 --> 00:08:06,578 W. Curtis Preston: Right. 176 00:08:06,608 --> 00:08:08,498 The I'm I'm assuming this is a dark web 177 00:08:09,038 --> 00:08:09,758 Chris Hayner: That's the one. 178 00:08:09,818 --> 00:08:09,968 Yeah. 179 00:08:10,328 --> 00:08:12,868 W. Curtis Preston: Right, it seems now that I've had a password manager for 180 00:08:12,868 --> 00:08:18,148 forever, but I know there was a time when I knew that I shouldn't use, um, 181 00:08:18,913 --> 00:08:23,323 The same password everywhere, but I didn't wanna use a password manager and 182 00:08:23,328 --> 00:08:25,003 I didn't wanna just use a spreadsheet. 183 00:08:25,453 --> 00:08:26,953 So I had this, you know, 184 00:08:27,673 --> 00:08:28,093 Prasanna Malaiyandi: System. 185 00:08:28,278 --> 00:08:31,033 W. Curtis Preston: out it's, it's not that uncommon, but I had a system where 186 00:08:31,153 --> 00:08:33,013 I did use the same password everywhere. 187 00:08:33,013 --> 00:08:34,753 Well, just the places it mattered. 188 00:08:34,963 --> 00:08:35,323 Right. 189 00:08:35,533 --> 00:08:37,003 Like, but okay. 190 00:08:37,003 --> 00:08:40,333 Let me rephrase if it was a site that it didn't matter. 191 00:08:40,333 --> 00:08:41,413 I had the same password everywhere. 192 00:08:41,443 --> 00:08:45,193 Like who cared if somebody got my, you know, login credentials to. 193 00:08:45,883 --> 00:08:47,803 Whatever, what to what? 194 00:08:48,343 --> 00:08:53,683 Not to yo, not to yo no, but yeah, anything that I thought mattered, I had a 195 00:08:53,713 --> 00:08:56,173 separate password that was semi complex. 196 00:08:56,443 --> 00:08:58,873 And then I had a string that I would put on. 197 00:08:59,413 --> 00:09:00,673 I would append to that. 198 00:09:00,673 --> 00:09:01,963 That was unique to each site. 199 00:09:01,963 --> 00:09:05,083 So I just had to remember that string for each site. 200 00:09:05,083 --> 00:09:07,813 I don't think I'm completely alone in that, in that idea. 201 00:09:08,263 --> 00:09:11,293 Um, but at some point. 202 00:09:12,153 --> 00:09:18,073 I got the idea of trying a password manager and honestly, it's so much easier. 203 00:09:19,243 --> 00:09:19,873 Right? 204 00:09:20,193 --> 00:09:23,263 It's so much easier than, than the alternatives. 205 00:09:23,263 --> 00:09:27,463 I mean, Prasanna you, how, how long have you been doing this? 206 00:09:28,138 --> 00:09:29,548 Prasanna Malaiyandi: using a password manager. 207 00:09:29,548 --> 00:09:32,068 I wanna say the last eight years or so, or eight or 10. 208 00:09:32,793 --> 00:09:33,083 W. Curtis Preston: Yeah. 209 00:09:33,983 --> 00:09:34,018 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Yeah. 210 00:09:34,468 --> 00:09:35,398 And I agree. 211 00:09:35,398 --> 00:09:36,178 It's easy. 212 00:09:36,178 --> 00:09:37,738 I don't have to remember it. 213 00:09:38,158 --> 00:09:42,388 Um, and like you said, you can make those passwords more secure. 214 00:09:42,568 --> 00:09:46,438 Cause I'm the type who always runs into here's the max number of 215 00:09:46,438 --> 00:09:49,408 characters, website supports, right. 216 00:09:49,408 --> 00:09:53,248 Because I'm always like 32 characters plus special characters plus everything. 217 00:09:53,638 --> 00:09:53,938 Right. 218 00:09:53,938 --> 00:09:56,338 Throw the kitchen sink at it because I'm like, I don't need to remember it. 219 00:09:58,078 --> 00:09:59,968 W. Curtis Preston: Yeah, that's a Chris. 220 00:09:59,968 --> 00:10:04,438 That's something that comes up pretty regularly on here is, is we talk about, 221 00:10:04,678 --> 00:10:09,178 we use these password managers and then we, we have these giant passwords and then 222 00:10:09,178 --> 00:10:13,288 we get a site that says like, oh, you can only have 16 characters in your password. 223 00:10:14,078 --> 00:10:16,798 And, and you can't have these special characters. 224 00:10:17,008 --> 00:10:17,128 Right. 225 00:10:17,143 --> 00:10:21,913 Prasanna Malaiyandi: can't be repeating characters or things like that. 226 00:10:21,913 --> 00:10:22,993 That always bugs me too. 227 00:10:23,623 --> 00:10:23,863 Chris Hayner: Right. 228 00:10:23,893 --> 00:10:26,653 They're basically putting together a recipe for an insecure password, 229 00:10:26,923 --> 00:10:27,133 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Yeah. 230 00:10:27,193 --> 00:10:27,703 W. Curtis Preston: Yeah. 231 00:10:27,733 --> 00:10:31,363 Chris Hayner: which is another reason to be really, let's just say paranoid 232 00:10:31,368 --> 00:10:34,453 about the username and password combination, not being able to. 233 00:10:35,293 --> 00:10:36,433 get into more than one website, 234 00:10:36,523 --> 00:10:38,983 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Yeah, I, I actually wanna make a comment about that. 235 00:10:38,983 --> 00:10:41,983 Something you just brought up, Chris, a lot of people think password 236 00:10:41,983 --> 00:10:45,883 managers are just for creating random passwords, but you could also use 237 00:10:45,888 --> 00:10:50,053 it to create random usernames, which actually help secure you in addition 238 00:10:50,053 --> 00:10:51,643 to just having a random password, 239 00:10:52,183 --> 00:10:52,483 Chris Hayner: Yeah. 240 00:10:52,513 --> 00:10:55,663 You're I mean, That is, that's a very good point. 241 00:10:55,663 --> 00:10:59,443 And, and especially around Prasannal security, there's no reason 242 00:10:59,443 --> 00:11:02,683 that you need to have the same username all over the internet. 243 00:11:03,433 --> 00:11:06,823 So if you're logging into a site that you don't necessarily care for, 244 00:11:06,823 --> 00:11:10,153 or don't care about that much, you know, like a good example would be 245 00:11:10,158 --> 00:11:14,953 the website, uh, called newsr, which is just a news aggregation site. 246 00:11:15,433 --> 00:11:16,993 They don't need to know who I really am. 247 00:11:17,083 --> 00:11:19,183 They just wanna know where to send their newsletter. 248 00:11:20,038 --> 00:11:20,338 Right. 249 00:11:20,338 --> 00:11:24,748 So my username doesn't have to be associated with me as closely. 250 00:11:25,168 --> 00:11:31,018 So then if there's an, an incident and a user or that like gets breached, then the 251 00:11:31,023 --> 00:11:34,438 breach doesn't associate with me directly because I didn't use the same username. 252 00:11:34,443 --> 00:11:39,388 And in fact, you can use a password manager to save a whole Prasanna, so 253 00:11:39,388 --> 00:11:43,168 you can create a fake name for yourself and just have that auto fill as well. 254 00:11:43,828 --> 00:11:46,018 Prasanna Malaiyandi: And also going one step further. 255 00:11:46,018 --> 00:11:48,928 Some sites also require like security questions. 256 00:11:48,928 --> 00:11:50,578 I remember we had a guest Curtis. 257 00:11:50,578 --> 00:11:53,278 I don't know if you remember Zoe, right? 258 00:11:53,308 --> 00:11:56,848 Who talked about how the fact that she uses, like the security question, she 259 00:11:56,848 --> 00:11:59,578 creates some randomly she's like, you don't need to know my birthday or the 260 00:11:59,578 --> 00:12:01,738 city I was born in, as long as I remember. 261 00:12:01,738 --> 00:12:04,468 And you can also use a password manager, some of them to store that 262 00:12:04,468 --> 00:12:05,668 additional information as well. 263 00:12:05,668 --> 00:12:08,848 So like you said, Chris, you have an entire new Prasanna created for. 264 00:12:09,748 --> 00:12:10,018 Chris Hayner: Yeah. 265 00:12:10,018 --> 00:12:13,198 And I think that's a great point, cuz it also comes into password. 266 00:12:14,143 --> 00:12:14,863 Management. 267 00:12:15,283 --> 00:12:18,103 It doesn't have to be in a password manager itself, but the idea that you 268 00:12:18,103 --> 00:12:22,093 are managing your information, that's a great rule for people, no matter 269 00:12:22,098 --> 00:12:26,713 what do not ever answer those security questions, honestly, you know, what 270 00:12:26,718 --> 00:12:27,943 was the city that you grew up in? 271 00:12:27,943 --> 00:12:30,763 Sorry, I was born on one twenty three anywhere street, and I 272 00:12:30,763 --> 00:12:32,473 dare you to prove different. 273 00:12:33,433 --> 00:12:33,853 W. Curtis Preston: Right. 274 00:12:33,853 --> 00:12:37,963 As long as you answer them the same way on the front end and the back end 275 00:12:38,353 --> 00:12:39,913 doesn't really matter what you put there. 276 00:12:40,258 --> 00:12:40,858 Chris Hayner: exactly. 277 00:12:41,068 --> 00:12:44,368 And that's another great use case for a password manager to 278 00:12:44,373 --> 00:12:45,718 keep that information for you. 279 00:12:46,753 --> 00:12:46,903 W. Curtis Preston: Yeah. 280 00:12:46,903 --> 00:12:50,113 The only thing that, and I, I agree with everything you just said, the 281 00:12:50,113 --> 00:12:53,863 only thing that stinks about that is that that's not auto fillable. 282 00:12:54,223 --> 00:12:54,613 Right. 283 00:12:54,793 --> 00:12:59,413 Um, you're gonna put that in the notes for your password manager in most cases, 284 00:13:00,103 --> 00:13:00,373 Chris Hayner: Yeah. 285 00:13:00,373 --> 00:13:04,183 That's I mean, that does bring up, uh, a challenge because it depends on the 286 00:13:04,273 --> 00:13:08,023 password manager, whether or not they have an ability to natively store, 287 00:13:08,023 --> 00:13:10,393 additional information or custom fields. 288 00:13:10,858 --> 00:13:11,248 W. Curtis Preston: Right. 289 00:13:11,593 --> 00:13:13,993 Chris Hayner: And how is the website built? 290 00:13:14,383 --> 00:13:17,473 Because nothing drives me up the wall faster than when a website 291 00:13:17,478 --> 00:13:20,803 puts in JavaScript that blocks a password manager from auto. 292 00:13:21,388 --> 00:13:22,138 W. Curtis Preston: Yes. 293 00:13:22,768 --> 00:13:24,678 Chris Hayner: That seems so unnecessary, 294 00:13:25,498 --> 00:13:28,348 W. Curtis Preston: There are, there are even some that won't allow you to paste, 295 00:13:28,408 --> 00:13:30,628 like even manually paste the password. 296 00:13:30,928 --> 00:13:31,278 Chris Hayner: right? 297 00:13:31,648 --> 00:13:34,198 W. Curtis Preston: That's when I get that's, when I get like, it's one thing 298 00:13:34,198 --> 00:13:38,458 where, you know, if it won't auto fill it, but then you're like, okay, fine. 299 00:13:38,463 --> 00:13:40,648 It's one of these sites where I have to copy and paste it and then you 300 00:13:40,648 --> 00:13:43,918 go to copy and paste it and it's like, Nope, here's what I, here's 301 00:13:43,923 --> 00:13:45,118 what I think we should do, Chris. 302 00:13:45,448 --> 00:13:51,388 I think we should start a website, like a website shaming website. 303 00:13:52,018 --> 00:13:57,478 Where, you know, we list companies that, that do stupid stuff like this. 304 00:13:57,478 --> 00:14:00,598 Like they, they, they have fewer than, you know, they, they have 305 00:14:00,598 --> 00:14:02,608 limitations on the size of the password. 306 00:14:02,848 --> 00:14:06,538 They have limitations on the number of characters we can put in, um, and 307 00:14:06,543 --> 00:14:07,828 the, you know, all that kind of stuff. 308 00:14:08,098 --> 00:14:11,428 And, um, you know, and, and they can't, and they won't allow us 309 00:14:11,428 --> 00:14:12,898 to auto fill or copy and paste. 310 00:14:12,898 --> 00:14:13,438 I think we should. 311 00:14:14,138 --> 00:14:14,848 Chris Hayner: I like 312 00:14:15,278 --> 00:14:18,988 W. Curtis Preston: yeah, think we should do a little password shaming dot. 313 00:14:19,933 --> 00:14:22,663 Chris Hayner: Oh, there was, there was already a robust traffic in, 314 00:14:22,663 --> 00:14:27,553 um, pass, not password shaming, but S3 bucket malfeasance, shaming, 315 00:14:28,123 --> 00:14:28,963 W. Curtis Preston: Oh, nice. 316 00:14:28,963 --> 00:14:29,413 Yes. 317 00:14:29,473 --> 00:14:30,553 Yes, exactly. 318 00:14:30,943 --> 00:14:32,803 Chris Hayner: sadly ha still happens. 319 00:14:34,018 --> 00:14:37,498 W. Curtis Preston: Well, you know, what, if, if it still happens like with new 320 00:14:37,498 --> 00:14:40,108 stuff, then you deserve what you get. 321 00:14:40,138 --> 00:14:45,418 Because, because AWS makes it really, really hard to make an open bucket now. 322 00:14:45,808 --> 00:14:46,018 Right. 323 00:14:46,018 --> 00:14:47,248 It used to be the default. 324 00:14:47,698 --> 00:14:51,118 Um, if you create an open bucket now you really meant to do it, 325 00:14:51,808 --> 00:14:54,778 which means you deserve, you deserve everything that's coming to you. 326 00:14:55,243 --> 00:14:55,423 Chris Hayner: Yeah. 327 00:14:55,423 --> 00:14:59,083 You had to click through giant flashing banners that say, don't do this ever. 328 00:14:59,908 --> 00:15:00,448 W. Curtis Preston: right. 329 00:15:00,753 --> 00:15:01,773 Chris Hayner: And yet here we are. 330 00:15:02,003 --> 00:15:03,413 Someone is still doing it. 331 00:15:04,203 --> 00:15:04,493 W. Curtis Preston: Yeah. 332 00:15:06,163 --> 00:15:09,253 Prasanna Malaiyandi: moving on to sort of the password managers itself, I'm sure 333 00:15:09,253 --> 00:15:15,073 a lot of people are like, Hey, Google Chrome or safari or Mac has key chain. 334 00:15:15,073 --> 00:15:15,163 Right. 335 00:15:15,988 --> 00:15:17,488 Why can't I just use that. 336 00:15:17,488 --> 00:15:20,488 Why do I need, like what you were talking about Chris, like a dash 337 00:15:20,488 --> 00:15:23,888 lane, a one password last pass, etc. 338 00:15:25,138 --> 00:15:25,528 Chris Hayner: right. 339 00:15:26,098 --> 00:15:30,088 So that comes out to very simply the preference that you're gonna have. 340 00:15:30,088 --> 00:15:33,748 Do you want to use something all within one infrastructure? 341 00:15:34,303 --> 00:15:37,813 Or do you want to use something that is independent of that infrastructure? 342 00:15:37,873 --> 00:15:40,423 So there's a, there's a big difference. 343 00:15:40,423 --> 00:15:42,853 For example, between using the password manager, that's built into 344 00:15:42,853 --> 00:15:47,743 Chrome and the password manager that's built into apple, right? 345 00:15:47,743 --> 00:15:50,053 Because the coverage is very different, but. 346 00:15:50,698 --> 00:15:55,198 For example, in a Chrome environment, you can have a Chrome account and 347 00:15:55,198 --> 00:16:00,208 you can save passwords and share them across securely, assuming you trust 348 00:16:00,208 --> 00:16:04,228 Google of course, across different installations of that browser. 349 00:16:04,798 --> 00:16:08,068 So it's the same exact concept in the sense that wherever you try to log 350 00:16:08,073 --> 00:16:11,488 in, as long as you log in with your valid username and password, you get 351 00:16:11,488 --> 00:16:12,988 all of your passwords along with you. 352 00:16:13,888 --> 00:16:14,218 But there. 353 00:16:14,428 --> 00:16:16,168 W. Curtis Preston: let me, let me just append to your comment. 354 00:16:16,648 --> 00:16:19,888 All of the passwords associated with that Chrome profile. 355 00:16:20,338 --> 00:16:20,668 Chris Hayner: right. 356 00:16:21,763 --> 00:16:24,673 W. Curtis Preston: Because I use two Chrome profiles constantly. 357 00:16:24,973 --> 00:16:26,683 So that's an important point. 358 00:16:26,908 --> 00:16:27,118 Prasanna Malaiyandi: But it 359 00:16:27,278 --> 00:16:29,758 Chris Hayner: that's, that's a great point because it to, it speaks immediately 360 00:16:29,758 --> 00:16:31,408 to the limitation of doing it this way. 361 00:16:32,248 --> 00:16:34,798 The one thing about it that you, that is true is that it 362 00:16:34,803 --> 00:16:36,538 is, uh, simple, straightforward. 363 00:16:36,598 --> 00:16:38,128 You don't have another product to manage. 364 00:16:38,128 --> 00:16:41,818 You don't have another product in many cases to pay for, because most. 365 00:16:42,433 --> 00:16:45,313 Professional password managers that we're gonna talk about are not free. 366 00:16:45,973 --> 00:16:48,913 They might have some type of free tier, but it's usually deeply limiting, 367 00:16:49,093 --> 00:16:52,543 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Yeah, but just to the Chrome example, isn't it a little 368 00:16:52,543 --> 00:16:56,653 bit of a chicken or egg problem, because you still need to remember the password 369 00:16:56,653 --> 00:16:58,303 to how to log into Chrome right. 370 00:16:58,513 --> 00:17:01,243 Into your Chrome account, right before you can get access to 371 00:17:01,243 --> 00:17:02,113 the rest of your password. 372 00:17:02,113 --> 00:17:02,503 So 373 00:17:03,823 --> 00:17:04,253 Chris Hayner: Which is 374 00:17:04,393 --> 00:17:06,673 W. Curtis Preston: I mean, but that's the same as a password manager, right? 375 00:17:06,673 --> 00:17:08,353 You need to remember that password, right? 376 00:17:08,743 --> 00:17:09,583 I will say. 377 00:17:11,278 --> 00:17:14,698 Again, this is something that comes up regular on the pasta on, on the podcast. 378 00:17:14,788 --> 00:17:16,768 Something is always better than nothing. 379 00:17:17,368 --> 00:17:17,718 Right? 380 00:17:19,153 --> 00:17:22,363 Not using any password manager at all. 381 00:17:22,663 --> 00:17:23,563 Like we're not arguing. 382 00:17:23,563 --> 00:17:27,193 You have to use Dashlane or last password, one pass, right? 383 00:17:27,198 --> 00:17:28,033 We're we're just arguing. 384 00:17:28,033 --> 00:17:29,653 You need a password manager. 385 00:17:29,923 --> 00:17:33,013 If you wanna live in the one that's free with, with Chrome. 386 00:17:33,283 --> 00:17:37,573 And again, I don't know anything about the security of how that is managed. 387 00:17:37,903 --> 00:17:41,713 I, I have that concern still better than nothing, I think. 388 00:17:42,463 --> 00:17:44,113 Um, right. 389 00:17:44,833 --> 00:17:48,073 Chris Hayner: And to their credit, a lot of the major browsers can do 390 00:17:48,073 --> 00:17:50,983 this and they do it a lot better now than they used to do it. 391 00:17:51,823 --> 00:17:55,003 Um, when password management first came out in internet Explorer, it 392 00:17:55,003 --> 00:17:58,993 was saved basically in encoded, but in plain text on your computer. 393 00:17:59,623 --> 00:17:59,953 W. Curtis Preston: right. 394 00:17:59,953 --> 00:18:00,283 Chris Hayner: So that's. 395 00:18:01,333 --> 00:18:05,233 W. Curtis Preston: the first, the first step in, you know, Dashlane I remember 396 00:18:05,233 --> 00:18:08,923 was sucking all the passwords outta my browser that I had in my browser, which 397 00:18:08,923 --> 00:18:10,423 meant that they were stored in plain text 398 00:18:10,723 --> 00:18:12,373 Chris Hayner: And exactly how did they do that? 399 00:18:12,853 --> 00:18:13,213 Yeah. 400 00:18:14,428 --> 00:18:15,198 W. Curtis Preston: they do that 401 00:18:16,663 --> 00:18:19,213 Chris Hayner: Um, but yeah, I mean the Chrome ones are better. 402 00:18:19,213 --> 00:18:23,983 Everything these days is at least at rest encrypted AEs 2 56. 403 00:18:24,013 --> 00:18:27,283 It's not really a problem with any major browser that you can think of. 404 00:18:27,313 --> 00:18:28,453 Everybody has their favorites. 405 00:18:28,453 --> 00:18:30,703 We've been talking about Chrome, but Firefox does it too. 406 00:18:31,213 --> 00:18:32,653 Uh, edge does it too. 407 00:18:33,073 --> 00:18:36,643 And then with Microsoft and apple, it gets a little bit more confusing because you 408 00:18:36,643 --> 00:18:38,423 can do it at an operating system level. 409 00:18:39,683 --> 00:18:39,913 Right. 410 00:18:39,913 --> 00:18:44,188 So depending on the applications you're using, you can also use, um, 411 00:18:44,248 --> 00:18:46,408 uh, what is it called in, in windows? 412 00:18:46,438 --> 00:18:49,678 I don't actually use windows all that often, but I know they have 413 00:18:49,998 --> 00:18:52,168 a similar built in like key chain 414 00:18:52,958 --> 00:18:54,328 W. Curtis Preston: It's called not key chain. 415 00:18:54,688 --> 00:18:57,898 Chris Hayner: yeah, something like that key bucket. 416 00:18:59,848 --> 00:19:03,538 Um, but that's where the third party tools really have some value. 417 00:19:03,568 --> 00:19:05,878 So you immediately have to manage two different things. 418 00:19:06,688 --> 00:19:09,898 For example, when you install last pass, you install an application 419 00:19:09,898 --> 00:19:13,888 that reaches out to all your browsers plugs in and to that connection, 420 00:19:14,578 --> 00:19:15,898 an actual third party plugin. 421 00:19:15,898 --> 00:19:18,538 So if you're on Chrome, you log in right. 422 00:19:18,538 --> 00:19:19,648 Click fill password. 423 00:19:19,678 --> 00:19:22,918 If you're in internet Explorer, same thing you can't have that 424 00:19:22,923 --> 00:19:27,028 kind of spread if you're just using the Chrome password manager. 425 00:19:27,508 --> 00:19:29,338 W. Curtis Preston: And also mobile and. 426 00:19:30,388 --> 00:19:33,448 Um, like I, I have Dashlane installed on my phone, so I get 427 00:19:33,448 --> 00:19:34,888 all this stuff on my phone as well. 428 00:19:35,083 --> 00:19:37,663 Prasanna Malaiyandi: But I believe though, if you're using like 429 00:19:37,663 --> 00:19:40,243 an iPhone plus a Mac, right. 430 00:19:40,303 --> 00:19:41,173 And an iPad, right. 431 00:19:41,233 --> 00:19:44,053 I think with apples now they have an iCloud key chain. 432 00:19:44,353 --> 00:19:47,623 That'll sort of sync everything now across assuming that you're using the same 433 00:19:47,623 --> 00:19:49,873 iCloud account across all your devices. 434 00:19:50,503 --> 00:19:51,493 Chris Hayner: Yeah, that's correct. 435 00:19:52,108 --> 00:19:52,348 W. Curtis Preston: Yeah. 436 00:19:52,348 --> 00:19:54,808 And I don't, I don't know anything about that. 437 00:19:54,898 --> 00:19:55,108 Right. 438 00:19:55,108 --> 00:19:56,338 I haven't tried to use that. 439 00:19:56,338 --> 00:19:59,168 I mean, once I, once I went down the Dashlane. 440 00:20:00,358 --> 00:20:00,688 Prasanna Malaiyandi: There's no, 441 00:20:01,153 --> 00:20:04,423 W. Curtis Preston: I was pretty and I'm paying like 39 bucks 442 00:20:04,423 --> 00:20:05,863 a year or something like that. 443 00:20:05,983 --> 00:20:10,423 Uh, and it comes with some like dark web monitoring or whatever, which, which is, 444 00:20:10,483 --> 00:20:11,833 I don't know, which is just depressing. 445 00:20:11,833 --> 00:20:14,743 They're like, Hey, your email address showed up over here now. 446 00:20:15,193 --> 00:20:16,813 Um, right. 447 00:20:17,113 --> 00:20:19,573 And you're, you know, and I'm like, oh, okay. 448 00:20:19,723 --> 00:20:19,993 All right. 449 00:20:20,788 --> 00:20:24,148 When I see my fake birthday showed up over in this other place. 450 00:20:24,148 --> 00:20:26,248 Cause I use a fake birthday just like we were talking about, I 451 00:20:26,248 --> 00:20:29,578 don't use my real birthday unless I'm dealing with like a bank or, 452 00:20:30,418 --> 00:20:30,748 Chris Hayner: Right. 453 00:20:30,748 --> 00:20:31,468 W. Curtis Preston: that sort of thing. 454 00:20:31,558 --> 00:20:31,918 Right. 455 00:20:32,848 --> 00:20:33,028 Chris Hayner: Yeah. 456 00:20:33,033 --> 00:20:36,328 Just because a website is asking for your honest information, as long as 457 00:20:36,333 --> 00:20:39,418 you're not, like you're saying a bank is a great case where you're gonna 458 00:20:39,418 --> 00:20:41,938 want to be honest, but, uh, sorry. 459 00:20:41,938 --> 00:20:42,778 target.com. 460 00:20:42,783 --> 00:20:45,518 I was born in 1923 and I dare you to prove me different. 461 00:20:48,748 --> 00:20:53,788 W. Curtis Preston: Um, but by the, just, just how many, uh, we could have a 462 00:20:53,788 --> 00:20:55,468 little contest, cuz I think I might win. 463 00:20:55,618 --> 00:20:58,108 How many passwords do you have in your password manager? 464 00:20:58,663 --> 00:21:00,193 Chris Hayner: oh, that's a great question. 465 00:21:00,253 --> 00:21:04,033 Um, I looked at this before and it was somewhere in the four to 500 range. 466 00:21:04,438 --> 00:21:05,008 W. Curtis Preston: Yeah, I win. 467 00:21:06,838 --> 00:21:09,928 I have about double that, but, but okay. 468 00:21:09,928 --> 00:21:14,008 But again, I share the password manager with my wife, right. 469 00:21:14,008 --> 00:21:14,548 So 470 00:21:14,863 --> 00:21:17,323 Chris Hayner: Ah, interesting thumb on the scales. 471 00:21:17,323 --> 00:21:17,983 I feel there, 472 00:21:18,178 --> 00:21:18,508 W. Curtis Preston: what's that. 473 00:21:18,913 --> 00:21:20,603 Chris Hayner: it says a little bit of a thumb on the scales 474 00:21:20,603 --> 00:21:21,563 having more than one person. 475 00:21:21,913 --> 00:21:23,203 W. Curtis Preston: It is, it is. 476 00:21:23,203 --> 00:21:23,593 Yeah. 477 00:21:23,593 --> 00:21:26,803 I, I, but I think I'm more than I'm more, I'm definitely more 478 00:21:26,803 --> 00:21:28,453 than half of that, of that. 479 00:21:28,453 --> 00:21:32,323 Uh, so I think I might win, even if I go through it, but I don't even wanna 480 00:21:32,323 --> 00:21:34,573 look and I wanna look at 800 accounts. 481 00:21:35,043 --> 00:21:37,603 start doing, start doing accounting of that. 482 00:21:38,233 --> 00:21:41,953 Um, but let's talk about, so we, we we've talked about some of the alternatives. 483 00:21:42,433 --> 00:21:43,723 I, I, I don't think. 484 00:21:44,983 --> 00:21:49,003 Just not having anything, is it, I mean, there are people and I've seen it. 485 00:21:49,003 --> 00:21:53,113 There are people that use spreadsheet as password manager 486 00:21:53,113 --> 00:21:54,088 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Or use their heads. 487 00:21:54,238 --> 00:21:54,808 I used to do that. 488 00:21:55,903 --> 00:21:58,123 W. Curtis Preston: I, there was a guy, there was a guy that 489 00:21:58,543 --> 00:22:00,223 I interacted with on Reddit. 490 00:22:01,003 --> 00:22:05,293 That was just like, it's not that hard to remember a unique 491 00:22:05,293 --> 00:22:06,823 password for every website. 492 00:22:06,828 --> 00:22:09,433 And I'm like, are you serious? 493 00:22:10,573 --> 00:22:10,873 Like. 494 00:22:10,918 --> 00:22:13,888 Prasanna Malaiyandi: you're only at five websites that they visit, right. 495 00:22:14,053 --> 00:22:16,153 W. Curtis Preston: and well, and he, and I, I argued with that. 496 00:22:16,483 --> 00:22:19,393 He's like, no, I have, you know, and he gave some number, there was a significant 497 00:22:19,393 --> 00:22:22,603 number and I'm like, really like 498 00:22:22,783 --> 00:22:23,023 Chris Hayner: Yeah. 499 00:22:24,523 --> 00:22:27,373 And I think that comes back to what you, what you said at the top, which 500 00:22:27,373 --> 00:22:31,753 is one way to get around using the same password everywhere is to come up 501 00:22:31,753 --> 00:22:35,203 with some kind of a mental algorithm that takes into consideration the 502 00:22:35,203 --> 00:22:37,213 website that you're using, for example. 503 00:22:38,023 --> 00:22:42,763 So my, my algorithm could be, uh, I hate the Nike store.com. 504 00:22:43,723 --> 00:22:45,673 I hate adidas.com. 505 00:22:45,733 --> 00:22:48,043 You know, I recognize that these are different passwords. 506 00:22:48,733 --> 00:22:51,793 , but they're the same in the sense that the algorithm is very easy to figure 507 00:22:51,793 --> 00:22:53,953 out once a password gets broken. 508 00:22:54,733 --> 00:22:57,133 So even know each password is 509 00:22:57,463 --> 00:23:00,673 W. Curtis Preston: yeah, all, but the, the problem there is all, all, 510 00:23:00,673 --> 00:23:04,753 again, all that somebody has to do is hack one of those passwords. 511 00:23:05,413 --> 00:23:05,863 Right. 512 00:23:06,163 --> 00:23:09,703 And then it's not that hard to figure out others again, it just 513 00:23:09,703 --> 00:23:13,603 depends on it's still again, that's still better than nothing. 514 00:23:13,843 --> 00:23:16,183 That's still better than using the exact same password. 515 00:23:16,253 --> 00:23:16,533 Every. 516 00:23:17,443 --> 00:23:18,013 But 517 00:23:18,748 --> 00:23:20,878 Prasanna Malaiyandi: even with unique passwords or even 518 00:23:20,878 --> 00:23:22,168 whatever the algorithm is, right. 519 00:23:22,168 --> 00:23:25,768 Even if it's something more complex, that's still so much like mental loads 520 00:23:25,768 --> 00:23:27,538 you have just to remember that stuff. 521 00:23:27,538 --> 00:23:31,018 It's like, why would you want to take that on with everything else in the world you 522 00:23:31,018 --> 00:23:32,968 could be doing with that mental capacity? 523 00:23:33,298 --> 00:23:35,158 You know, it's just, why do you wanna clutter your brain? 524 00:23:35,653 --> 00:23:35,923 Chris Hayner: Right. 525 00:23:35,983 --> 00:23:37,183 Let's make life easier. 526 00:23:37,543 --> 00:23:38,653 Let's do that instead. 527 00:23:39,253 --> 00:23:42,433 W. Curtis Preston: the Sherlock Holmes, um, philosophy, right? 528 00:23:42,438 --> 00:23:46,213 The cuz he has this thing, that's like, he doesn't want to put anything in his 529 00:23:46,213 --> 00:23:48,943 brain that isn't useful for everything. 530 00:23:49,003 --> 00:23:49,333 Right. 531 00:23:49,333 --> 00:23:53,823 So, um, so I, I guess the only. 532 00:23:55,963 --> 00:24:00,943 Um, I'll call it valid concern, cuz it, I, I think it's a concern that needs to 533 00:24:00,943 --> 00:24:05,893 be addressed is, well, I'm worried that if I use a password manager, all of my 534 00:24:05,893 --> 00:24:07,963 passwords will be in the same place. 535 00:24:08,293 --> 00:24:13,213 And then someone will be able to not hack just one account, but my entire life, 536 00:24:13,753 --> 00:24:16,693 um, you know, what do we say to that? 537 00:24:17,548 --> 00:24:21,118 Chris Hayner: so the first thing to pay attention to with the provider that you're 538 00:24:21,118 --> 00:24:23,608 using is where does the encryption happen? 539 00:24:24,628 --> 00:24:27,328 If the encryption happens on your machine with your key. 540 00:24:27,333 --> 00:24:31,798 And then the only thing that the provider saves is the encrypted content. 541 00:24:32,668 --> 00:24:37,333 It doesn't matter if last pass gots hacked, for example, And that's a 542 00:24:37,333 --> 00:24:40,603 significant concern, cuz like we talked about older versions that were directly 543 00:24:40,603 --> 00:24:42,283 on the desktop weren't encrypted at all. 544 00:24:43,243 --> 00:24:45,823 So it's definitely a possibility, uh, but what 545 00:24:45,913 --> 00:24:47,413 W. Curtis Preston: last pass was hacked, right? 546 00:24:47,623 --> 00:24:50,503 Chris Hayner: they were hacked, but they did not lose individual account 547 00:24:50,503 --> 00:24:53,563 information in the sense of passwords. 548 00:24:53,713 --> 00:24:57,453 They lost other information, but the passwords themselves were secure. 549 00:24:58,203 --> 00:24:58,493 W. Curtis Preston: Okay. 550 00:24:59,623 --> 00:25:00,103 Okay 551 00:25:01,263 --> 00:25:04,843 Chris Hayner: But you're right in the sense that you now have really a master 552 00:25:04,843 --> 00:25:08,293 account, for lack of a better word, that needs to be secured in a different way. 553 00:25:08,593 --> 00:25:12,823 You can't have your password for your password manager in your password manager. 554 00:25:13,843 --> 00:25:17,773 That's not gonna work, but really what you, yeah. 555 00:25:17,953 --> 00:25:20,563 So what you need to do there is come up with a password that is 556 00:25:20,563 --> 00:25:24,793 really secure and again, unique, but that you can trust your memory. 557 00:25:26,023 --> 00:25:28,813 However, you should still double protect that account 558 00:25:28,813 --> 00:25:30,553 with multifactor authentication. 559 00:25:32,023 --> 00:25:35,683 Um, and a lot of almost all of these providers make that an, uh, a possibility. 560 00:25:35,683 --> 00:25:40,153 So even if somebody does steal your master password to your password manager, they 561 00:25:40,153 --> 00:25:42,043 can't log in without that six digit code. 562 00:25:42,943 --> 00:25:44,383 W. Curtis Preston: Right, right. 563 00:25:45,133 --> 00:25:47,713 I know with mine, it, you know, it pops up. 564 00:25:47,718 --> 00:25:53,293 I actually have to go to my phone, um, and authenticate, like if I log 565 00:25:53,298 --> 00:25:57,253 into a new browser, uh, I, I have to go to my phone and authenticate 566 00:25:57,253 --> 00:25:59,233 that in the Dashlane app itself. 567 00:25:59,833 --> 00:26:01,753 Um, which, which I, I like that. 568 00:26:01,753 --> 00:26:03,763 I prefer that to, let's say an SMS. 569 00:26:04,423 --> 00:26:09,253 Prasanna Malaiyandi: What happens though, if you forget your master password, right. 570 00:26:09,403 --> 00:26:10,903 Chris Hayner: You're well, again, 571 00:26:11,893 --> 00:26:12,403 W. Curtis Preston: that just. 572 00:26:12,943 --> 00:26:15,733 Chris Hayner: I mean, it's, that's a really good question because for 573 00:26:15,733 --> 00:26:21,193 example, if you have an apple account and you're enabled on iCloud, your stuff 574 00:26:21,193 --> 00:26:23,283 is encrypted in action, and I'm sorry. 575 00:26:24,028 --> 00:26:30,268 In motion and at rest, however, it's the master encryption of apple in iCloud, 576 00:26:30,298 --> 00:26:34,828 which means that if you lose your apple password, apple can unlock it for you. 577 00:26:35,313 --> 00:26:35,533 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Yep. 578 00:26:36,178 --> 00:26:39,148 Chris Hayner: A lot of these providers don't do that by design. 579 00:26:40,108 --> 00:26:44,248 So it's security versus convenience, which is a common Seesaw that we find. 580 00:26:45,238 --> 00:26:49,378 But generally, if you forget and are locked out of your, like, I keep 581 00:26:49,378 --> 00:26:52,528 coming back to last pass, cuz it's the one I know the best their answer is. 582 00:26:54,028 --> 00:26:55,348 W. Curtis Preston: This is the way it's designed to 583 00:26:55,378 --> 00:26:56,368 Prasanna Malaiyandi: they give you an option? 584 00:26:56,368 --> 00:26:58,828 Like I know Facebook, for instance, with their passwords, you could have 585 00:26:58,828 --> 00:27:03,238 like another person's account who you trust, who they could reach out to, or 586 00:27:03,298 --> 00:27:08,233 here's a recovery password that you can print out and store in a safe location 587 00:27:08,233 --> 00:27:10,153 just in case like a one time password. 588 00:27:10,828 --> 00:27:11,218 Chris Hayner: Right. 589 00:27:11,218 --> 00:27:15,328 Some of them do do that and they also have sort of a, a dead man switch option 590 00:27:15,328 --> 00:27:16,618 that you can put in place as well. 591 00:27:17,698 --> 00:27:20,818 We're starting to get into like enterprise level features though. 592 00:27:20,908 --> 00:27:22,318 When you talk about that type of thing. 593 00:27:22,318 --> 00:27:27,568 Cause another thing that exists, if you're a business, you can create an 594 00:27:27,598 --> 00:27:32,188 organization and then you can kind of have here's the engineering master password. 595 00:27:32,188 --> 00:27:35,668 Here's the sales master password, et cetera, all the way across your company. 596 00:27:35,728 --> 00:27:40,768 And then because you're one layer down now, your it department has the ability. 597 00:27:40,858 --> 00:27:45,308 If you enable it to say, uh, Steve forgot his password, please reset it. 598 00:27:45,938 --> 00:27:46,398 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Gotcha. 599 00:27:47,413 --> 00:27:47,893 W. Curtis Preston: Yeah. 600 00:27:48,073 --> 00:27:54,613 Uh, for a while, my wife and I had, we, we both had Dashlane and, uh, I had my 601 00:27:54,613 --> 00:28:00,343 Dashlane password in her account and she had hers in mind, but then we realized, 602 00:28:00,343 --> 00:28:02,713 why are we both paying $39 a year? 603 00:28:03,733 --> 00:28:08,203 For what is essentially the same service, you know, and as long, as long as I, and 604 00:28:08,203 --> 00:28:11,683 neither of us had accounts that we didn't want the other one to be able to log into. 605 00:28:12,103 --> 00:28:12,523 Right. 606 00:28:12,523 --> 00:28:15,493 So that, you know, that that works. 607 00:28:15,613 --> 00:28:18,403 But, um, the. 608 00:28:19,348 --> 00:28:21,088 Uh, yeah, generally speaking. 609 00:28:21,088 --> 00:28:23,578 And I know by the way that, um, let me throw out our, our 610 00:28:23,578 --> 00:28:26,998 disclaimer, uh, Prasanna and I work for different companies. 611 00:28:26,998 --> 00:28:27,808 He works for zoom. 612 00:28:27,808 --> 00:28:28,568 I work for Druva. 613 00:28:29,038 --> 00:28:33,088 And the opinions that you hear are, um, ours, and this is not an 614 00:28:33,088 --> 00:28:35,248 official podcast of either company. 615 00:28:35,698 --> 00:28:39,598 Uh, and I say that, you know, one, I just wanted to mention, you know, at Druva. 616 00:28:40,693 --> 00:28:42,883 Up until just recently. 617 00:28:43,183 --> 00:28:48,133 Um, this was the way Druva worked because we do our encryption using 618 00:28:48,133 --> 00:28:52,003 the password and it's a, it's a, a envelope encryption system. 619 00:28:52,393 --> 00:28:57,043 And it wasn't that long ago that I was talking with a customer who had done this, 620 00:28:57,048 --> 00:29:00,193 where he had changed his Druva password. 621 00:29:01,453 --> 00:29:01,843 And it's. 622 00:29:03,118 --> 00:29:06,058 The only alternative was to basically just start over. 623 00:29:06,238 --> 00:29:06,538 Right. 624 00:29:06,538 --> 00:29:11,338 Because there was because we by design, didn't allow you to reset your 625 00:29:11,338 --> 00:29:16,408 password because we couldn't figure out a way up until recently to do that 626 00:29:16,408 --> 00:29:21,508 without allowing someone in Druva to also be able to reset your password. 627 00:29:21,513 --> 00:29:21,748 Right. 628 00:29:21,748 --> 00:29:23,488 Cause you it's a brain. 629 00:29:23,698 --> 00:29:28,923 So, um, So we figured it, we figured out a way, uh, thanks of course, to another new 630 00:29:28,923 --> 00:29:32,013 service by our, our lovely partner, AWS. 631 00:29:32,403 --> 00:29:32,733 right. 632 00:29:32,943 --> 00:29:33,303 Thanks. 633 00:29:33,308 --> 00:29:33,993 Thanks to them. 634 00:29:33,993 --> 00:29:35,073 We were able to figure this out. 635 00:29:35,073 --> 00:29:38,133 So now you're actually able to reset the, the password. 636 00:29:38,643 --> 00:29:42,093 Uh, it do, it does trigger up, you know, MFA and all that kind of stuff. 637 00:29:42,093 --> 00:29:42,393 Right. 638 00:29:42,963 --> 00:29:49,473 But so it, so you, you don't think that the concern of, of having everything 639 00:29:49,593 --> 00:29:54,663 all in one place is a well you're, you're saying it's a valid concern. 640 00:29:55,168 --> 00:29:59,518 But it just means you need to look into the way the, the, the products are built. 641 00:29:59,608 --> 00:29:59,878 Right, 642 00:30:00,303 --> 00:30:00,873 Chris Hayner: Exactly. 643 00:30:00,903 --> 00:30:04,473 It's a concern that you have a number of options in the 644 00:30:04,473 --> 00:30:06,513 marketplace as to how you manage it. 645 00:30:07,623 --> 00:30:09,873 You know, one of the other concerns that people have that is similar 646 00:30:09,873 --> 00:30:12,993 to this is, well, what happens if last pass goes out of business? 647 00:30:13,798 --> 00:30:14,158 W. Curtis Preston: right. 648 00:30:14,473 --> 00:30:16,693 Chris Hayner: That those passwords can be as secure as they want, but if they 649 00:30:16,693 --> 00:30:20,503 go out of business and all of a sudden I can't use them anymore, then I might 650 00:30:20,503 --> 00:30:23,833 be 500 passwords into a big problem. 651 00:30:24,703 --> 00:30:27,733 Uh, and this is an argument that is often made and support of 652 00:30:27,823 --> 00:30:30,523 self-hosting your own solution. 653 00:30:31,498 --> 00:30:33,958 So a lot of the ones that we've been talking about live in the cloud, they're 654 00:30:33,958 --> 00:30:37,198 a service, you log into a website, username password, the whole nine. 655 00:30:37,708 --> 00:30:41,368 You can do all this stuff for yourself for $0. 656 00:30:41,398 --> 00:30:45,238 If you'd like, or you can even have it's the best. 657 00:30:45,298 --> 00:30:46,588 It's the best price out there. 658 00:30:46,588 --> 00:30:46,888 Isn't it. 659 00:30:46,948 --> 00:30:47,878 $0. 660 00:30:48,448 --> 00:30:48,928 I'll take 10. 661 00:30:51,118 --> 00:30:51,778 W. Curtis Preston: Yeah. 662 00:30:52,038 --> 00:30:56,578 I, I, I think, again, this, this falls into the category of, I mean, if 663 00:30:56,578 --> 00:31:00,388 Dashlane, I'll just say Dashlane, if Dashlane started going out of business, 664 00:31:00,748 --> 00:31:02,728 we would get some kind of notification. 665 00:31:02,728 --> 00:31:06,388 It wouldn't be like, okay, boom, Dashlane is outta 666 00:31:06,463 --> 00:31:06,973 Prasanna Malaiyandi: I don't know 667 00:31:06,973 --> 00:31:11,143 though, I Curtis, but how many times have we talked to companies though 668 00:31:11,143 --> 00:31:14,953 that have basically been like, something happened to my environment 669 00:31:14,953 --> 00:31:16,603 and the next day the business is gone. 670 00:31:17,203 --> 00:31:17,593 Right? 671 00:31:17,803 --> 00:31:18,223 So 672 00:31:18,643 --> 00:31:19,093 W. Curtis Preston: Yeah. 673 00:31:19,123 --> 00:31:19,573 Okay. 674 00:31:19,573 --> 00:31:20,533 It's a possibility. 675 00:31:20,533 --> 00:31:21,673 I just don't think it's a, 676 00:31:21,673 --> 00:31:22,243 Prasanna Malaiyandi: on Mr. 677 00:31:22,243 --> 00:31:25,423 Backup saying that that's not an issue, not a concern. 678 00:31:26,833 --> 00:31:28,753 W. Curtis Preston: it's not a concern for me outside. 679 00:31:28,758 --> 00:31:34,243 I mean, I'm because basically if, if, if dash lane, if they, if there was any hint 680 00:31:34,723 --> 00:31:40,963 of financial instability, boom, I'm making a, I'm making a, an export real quick. 681 00:31:41,298 --> 00:31:41,533 right. 682 00:31:42,208 --> 00:31:42,418 Chris Hayner: Yeah. 683 00:31:42,478 --> 00:31:42,678 And. 684 00:31:42,763 --> 00:31:44,263 W. Curtis Preston: can then import that to another. 685 00:31:44,893 --> 00:31:47,533 Chris Hayner: And that's exactly what you can do for yourself is 686 00:31:47,623 --> 00:31:52,993 periodically take an export, encrypt that export, keep it someplace safe. 687 00:31:54,463 --> 00:31:55,693 Um, and that 688 00:31:55,878 --> 00:31:56,263 W. Curtis Preston: drive. 689 00:31:58,273 --> 00:32:01,203 Chris Hayner: well, if you encrypt it, then we'll agree now. 690 00:32:02,623 --> 00:32:05,413 Another way that companies are solving that along the lines of 691 00:32:05,413 --> 00:32:07,513 the enterprise level type of tools. 692 00:32:07,573 --> 00:32:11,413 Uh, one that comes to mind is keeper, which has actually been around for 693 00:32:11,413 --> 00:32:13,573 a while, but they've only started making waves over the last year 694 00:32:13,573 --> 00:32:15,013 or two in the enterprise space. 695 00:32:15,583 --> 00:32:20,593 They have an option where you can enable local only. 696 00:32:21,013 --> 00:32:24,913 Password management, which effectively means yes, they have a copy of it up 697 00:32:24,913 --> 00:32:28,363 in the cloud and you can update and refresh whenever you want to, but you 698 00:32:28,363 --> 00:32:30,223 can say I'm gonna be offline for a week. 699 00:32:30,253 --> 00:32:33,523 I want my password manager to still work and it will still work. 700 00:32:34,603 --> 00:32:39,313 So the services kind of neat in that way, where you can download onto your machine, 701 00:32:40,163 --> 00:32:42,613 have it actively running and functioning. 702 00:32:42,943 --> 00:32:46,063 And if their website or their business went out of business, 703 00:32:46,213 --> 00:32:47,433 you would still be ok. 704 00:32:47,533 --> 00:32:47,663 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Yeah. 705 00:32:47,663 --> 00:32:47,893 Yeah 706 00:32:48,833 --> 00:32:52,843 Chris Hayner: So that's, that's a keeper thing that not every single provider has. 707 00:32:52,843 --> 00:32:55,033 And again, we're talking about enterprise space with some of this 708 00:32:55,033 --> 00:32:57,103 stuff, but it's an interesting solution. 709 00:32:58,813 --> 00:32:59,623 W. Curtis Preston: Yeah, it is. 710 00:33:00,193 --> 00:33:03,003 So I want to hear, I want to hear about what you do Prasanna. 711 00:33:03,658 --> 00:33:04,438 Prasanna Malaiyandi: What do I do? 712 00:33:04,528 --> 00:33:09,058 So , so I use key pass, which is a free open source tool as 713 00:33:09,453 --> 00:33:09,873 W. Curtis Preston: Mm-hmm 714 00:33:09,928 --> 00:33:11,068 Prasanna Malaiyandi: for a password manager. 715 00:33:11,308 --> 00:33:14,518 And I create passwords on my desktop. 716 00:33:16,343 --> 00:33:19,048 um, I don't do browser integrations. 717 00:33:19,048 --> 00:33:19,918 Call me old school. 718 00:33:19,918 --> 00:33:21,118 I still copy and 719 00:33:21,118 --> 00:33:22,948 paste it from key pass. 720 00:33:23,548 --> 00:33:23,908 Yep. 721 00:33:24,478 --> 00:33:24,928 Right. 722 00:33:25,048 --> 00:33:28,798 Um, and then that's how I use it on my laptop. 723 00:33:28,798 --> 00:33:33,598 And then what I do is I actually have a mobile version of key pass installed on 724 00:33:33,603 --> 00:33:39,748 my phone and I manually sync the password file back and forth from my desktop. 725 00:33:39,748 --> 00:33:43,258 So my desktop is always the primary copy and I never make 726 00:33:43,258 --> 00:33:44,938 changes on my mobile phone for my. 727 00:33:46,828 --> 00:33:48,478 W. Curtis Preston: Do you have, you have a backup of that? 728 00:33:48,838 --> 00:33:50,098 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Yes, I do have a backup. 729 00:33:50,108 --> 00:33:50,398 W. Curtis Preston: okay. 730 00:33:50,458 --> 00:33:50,728 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Yep. 731 00:33:50,968 --> 00:33:51,298 I do 732 00:33:51,468 --> 00:33:53,808 Chris Hayner: He actually, he hosted on his S3 bucket. 733 00:33:53,818 --> 00:33:54,178 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Yeah. 734 00:33:54,298 --> 00:33:54,508 Yeah. 735 00:33:54,508 --> 00:33:57,958 It's wide open for everyone, but because there's a master password, 736 00:33:58,978 --> 00:33:59,398 W. Curtis Preston: Yeah. 737 00:33:59,758 --> 00:34:00,238 Yeah. 738 00:34:00,958 --> 00:34:01,858 Um, 739 00:34:02,008 --> 00:34:03,958 Prasanna Malaiyandi: like you said, I don't make changes on my phone. 740 00:34:04,168 --> 00:34:04,378 Right. 741 00:34:04,383 --> 00:34:06,328 So I don't have to worry about the syncing problem. 742 00:34:06,328 --> 00:34:06,998 Going back to it. 743 00:34:08,113 --> 00:34:11,623 And so it's always just any changes happen on the laptop and then 744 00:34:11,623 --> 00:34:13,003 periodically pushed to the phone. 745 00:34:13,003 --> 00:34:16,873 And on the phone side, they've done great things like now it integrates with like 746 00:34:17,203 --> 00:34:20,173 apples password managers or features. 747 00:34:20,173 --> 00:34:22,813 So you can go to website, you can say, Hey, by the way, there's username, 748 00:34:22,818 --> 00:34:24,343 password, click the password. 749 00:34:24,343 --> 00:34:28,363 As it automatically loads the password from the mobile side as well. 750 00:34:29,188 --> 00:34:29,668 W. Curtis Preston: Yeah. 751 00:34:29,728 --> 00:34:32,098 I mean, that sounds interesting for me. 752 00:34:32,098 --> 00:34:38,008 I, you know, I, I, I think, I think I've gotten used to the features and 753 00:34:38,008 --> 00:34:43,648 functionality that I get, you know, on Dashlane too much to, I mean, 754 00:34:43,653 --> 00:34:46,228 when you start talking about copying and pasting, when I have to copy and 755 00:34:46,228 --> 00:34:47,818 paste a password, I get pissed off. 756 00:34:48,388 --> 00:34:48,748 Right. 757 00:34:48,748 --> 00:34:51,028 It's just way too much, way too much effort. 758 00:34:51,088 --> 00:34:55,918 Um, the, uh, I love, I mean, what happens to me is that. 759 00:34:56,803 --> 00:34:58,843 Dashlane the way Dashlane now works. 760 00:34:58,843 --> 00:35:04,213 Is it only, it, it, on the desktop, it only runs in the browser, right? 761 00:35:04,243 --> 00:35:09,313 So you, you have to, when you log in, uh, a new time, like right now, 762 00:35:09,318 --> 00:35:12,463 I'm looking up and I can see that Dashlane is deactivated at the moment. 763 00:35:12,468 --> 00:35:15,313 It's a little, the little D is orange instead of green. 764 00:35:15,553 --> 00:35:17,833 So I know if I went to a website right now to log in. 765 00:35:18,373 --> 00:35:21,943 I would have to go log into Dashlane first, but as soon as I come back to the 766 00:35:21,943 --> 00:35:23,623 website, my password's already there. 767 00:35:23,623 --> 00:35:25,573 It's already auto filled and I just have to click submit. 768 00:35:25,933 --> 00:35:26,773 It's just, I don't 769 00:35:26,933 --> 00:35:27,263 Prasanna Malaiyandi: no. 770 00:35:27,263 --> 00:35:31,253 And I think that's a big thing that these password managers help with is you don't 771 00:35:31,253 --> 00:35:32,603 want, especially in security, right? 772 00:35:32,603 --> 00:35:35,363 You don't want things to be cumbersome in order for people to be. 773 00:35:36,358 --> 00:35:39,268 You want to be as seamless as possible, looking at Dashlane 774 00:35:39,268 --> 00:35:40,558 and all these other services. 775 00:35:40,858 --> 00:35:43,318 I think that's one of the biggest values they add, right. 776 00:35:43,318 --> 00:35:48,898 Is the fact that yes, it is very simple to still get access to your websites or 777 00:35:48,898 --> 00:35:51,118 whatever else it is while being secure. 778 00:35:52,318 --> 00:35:52,558 W. Curtis Preston: Yeah. 779 00:35:52,768 --> 00:35:57,598 And, and in the case, I, again, I want to hear about last pass, but I know in the 780 00:35:57,598 --> 00:36:02,728 case of dash, so Dashlane has gotten where it was really rinky-dink was on the phone. 781 00:36:03,238 --> 00:36:04,928 When I first got Dashlane. 782 00:36:05,518 --> 00:36:10,228 Dashlane was at best a thing I could copy and paste passwords into, into a 783 00:36:10,228 --> 00:36:14,668 website on the phone right now it's really integrated with the, with the website. 784 00:36:14,673 --> 00:36:18,688 Generally speaking again, as long as I'm on, you know, a supporter browser 785 00:36:18,688 --> 00:36:22,408 on there, it, it just automatically fills in the password, you know, 786 00:36:22,413 --> 00:36:27,208 the username and password, and it also integrates with, um, face ID. 787 00:36:27,908 --> 00:36:30,218 If I wanted to, you can turn that feature on and off. 788 00:36:30,218 --> 00:36:33,668 So all I have to do is look at, literally look at the website 789 00:36:33,668 --> 00:36:34,808 and then just magic happens. 790 00:36:34,808 --> 00:36:35,138 Right. 791 00:36:35,588 --> 00:36:38,648 Um, I do have to click the, there's a, the word password 792 00:36:38,818 --> 00:36:39,448 Prasanna Malaiyandi: That's the same thing. 793 00:36:39,498 --> 00:36:39,618 I. 794 00:36:39,838 --> 00:36:40,288 Yep. 795 00:36:40,468 --> 00:36:40,918 W. Curtis Preston: Yeah, yeah. 796 00:36:40,918 --> 00:36:41,818 I have to click password. 797 00:36:42,148 --> 00:36:47,038 Um, but, but then it, but then it, uh, it, it either makes me log 798 00:36:47,038 --> 00:36:51,508 in with my password or used face ID to, to integrate with that. 799 00:36:51,508 --> 00:36:51,868 Right. 800 00:36:52,288 --> 00:36:57,598 Um, and I, uh, I also recently found out that and I, and I was 801 00:36:57,603 --> 00:37:01,488 happy about this is that it, it, it now supports password history. 802 00:37:02,088 --> 00:37:02,518 Right. 803 00:37:02,518 --> 00:37:06,823 So, um, because again, that, by the way that customer, that the Juva 804 00:37:06,828 --> 00:37:11,473 story that I told we were actually able to get him logged in because his 805 00:37:11,473 --> 00:37:14,803 password manager had password history. 806 00:37:15,283 --> 00:37:20,893 So he logged in, he was able to, um, Forget exactly how, how it worked, 807 00:37:20,893 --> 00:37:23,923 but he was able to use that password history feature to be able to log in. 808 00:37:24,553 --> 00:37:29,473 Um, but, um, the, yeah, I love the password history feature. 809 00:37:29,503 --> 00:37:34,093 I love the, you know, the fact that I can use it to also, it, I don't 810 00:37:34,093 --> 00:37:37,813 use this much, but it has the ability to automatically reset passwords 811 00:37:37,818 --> 00:37:39,823 on a lot of popular websites. 812 00:37:40,363 --> 00:37:44,503 So you can just go into Dashlane and just say reset my Facebook password. 813 00:37:44,503 --> 00:37:46,543 And it just does it cuz that's the other thing. 814 00:37:47,548 --> 00:37:53,098 Changing your password on a regular website is, is way too much pain. 815 00:37:53,668 --> 00:37:54,058 Right. 816 00:37:54,358 --> 00:37:57,658 Um, and so automating that I think is, I think is good. 817 00:37:58,078 --> 00:37:59,038 What about last pass? 818 00:37:59,038 --> 00:38:03,088 Like how did you end up, you know, at last pass, cuz you've 819 00:38:03,088 --> 00:38:04,318 had it for a while now as well. 820 00:38:04,618 --> 00:38:07,408 Chris Hayner: yeah, I've had it for a while and I ended up going with them. 821 00:38:07,413 --> 00:38:09,928 They were the first password manager that I actually paid. 822 00:38:10,933 --> 00:38:15,313 Um, and I ended up going with them for the very reasonable logical and well 823 00:38:15,313 --> 00:38:17,833 thought out reason that I had a coupon. 824 00:38:20,773 --> 00:38:23,923 Um, and I found myself in the same situation that, that you just described, 825 00:38:23,923 --> 00:38:26,263 which is I am now used to last pass. 826 00:38:26,293 --> 00:38:28,663 I am used to its quirks and eccentricities. 827 00:38:28,663 --> 00:38:33,473 I know how to do what I need to do with it with a minimum of fuss. 828 00:38:34,183 --> 00:38:34,633 W. Curtis Preston: right. 829 00:38:34,798 --> 00:38:38,968 Chris Hayner: So I've had it for the, the past five years, uh, on regular price. 830 00:38:38,968 --> 00:38:41,428 So they got their value out of that coupon, I'll say. 831 00:38:42,988 --> 00:38:44,668 and overall, I feel like it's solid. 832 00:38:44,758 --> 00:38:48,478 Um, I don't think that it's mobile presence is great. 833 00:38:48,748 --> 00:38:49,918 I think it's fine. 834 00:38:50,908 --> 00:38:54,298 Uh, I also think that doing things on the phone is super complicated. 835 00:38:55,138 --> 00:38:59,518 Um, I've never reliably had at work in terms of auto-filling the password on the. 836 00:39:00,433 --> 00:39:01,273 Sometimes it works. 837 00:39:01,273 --> 00:39:03,613 Sometimes it doesn't depends on the, the page. 838 00:39:03,613 --> 00:39:04,693 It depends on the time. 839 00:39:04,693 --> 00:39:07,153 It depends on the, the cycle of the moon. 840 00:39:08,773 --> 00:39:11,953 W. Curtis Preston: Well, well, I have to say dashlane's pretty, pretty good there. 841 00:39:11,953 --> 00:39:12,883 Um, it works. 842 00:39:12,883 --> 00:39:15,463 I'm gonna say about 80, 80% of the time. 843 00:39:15,463 --> 00:39:17,023 And when it doesn't work, it's the website. 844 00:39:17,023 --> 00:39:17,473 It's not 845 00:39:17,593 --> 00:39:17,863 Chris Hayner: Right? 846 00:39:18,463 --> 00:39:18,673 Yeah. 847 00:39:18,723 --> 00:39:19,083 And I. 848 00:39:20,293 --> 00:39:23,953 I think that speaks to dash Lane's goals as a company. 849 00:39:24,523 --> 00:39:29,713 Um, they actually, a few days ago, I wanna say their CTO did an interview, an 850 00:39:29,718 --> 00:39:33,073 AMA on Reddit, uh, which was quite good. 851 00:39:33,253 --> 00:39:35,893 And basically what he was saying and talking about was like touting 852 00:39:35,893 --> 00:39:36,883 all these new advancements. 853 00:39:36,883 --> 00:39:40,003 And it really feels to me like they're going hard after 854 00:39:40,003 --> 00:39:42,143 the consumer level market. 855 00:39:42,958 --> 00:39:45,628 And what that means is getting away from some of the enterprise features 856 00:39:45,628 --> 00:39:49,318 like, you know, the password sharing or, or the running offline things 857 00:39:49,318 --> 00:39:52,468 that a regular user is not gonna necessarily be that concerned about. 858 00:39:53,278 --> 00:39:59,878 And in favor of let's build an absolutely rock solid cellphone service. 859 00:40:00,928 --> 00:40:00,973 W. Curtis Preston: right. 860 00:40:01,798 --> 00:40:05,128 Chris Hayner: Other companies are just like, listen, we've got 750 features. 861 00:40:05,488 --> 00:40:07,888 I mean, we're working on that one, but we got all these other ones too. 862 00:40:08,428 --> 00:40:10,858 And that was one of the things that he said in this interview is they 863 00:40:10,858 --> 00:40:14,728 discontinued the application that it gets installed on the desktop tactically. 864 00:40:15,748 --> 00:40:16,918 They said, there's too many products. 865 00:40:16,923 --> 00:40:20,218 We have to focus on what customers want and need. 866 00:40:20,308 --> 00:40:21,298 And this is not one of them. 867 00:40:21,403 --> 00:40:21,643 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Yeah. 868 00:40:21,733 --> 00:40:24,643 And if you think about it, a lot of people these days, they like, I don't 869 00:40:24,643 --> 00:40:28,183 know about you guys, but I use my mobile phone probably 80% of the time. 870 00:40:28,753 --> 00:40:30,853 Like I'm rarely ever on my laptop. 871 00:40:30,853 --> 00:40:32,803 And it's just like how I do things these days. 872 00:40:32,803 --> 00:40:33,643 Cuz it's always on me. 873 00:40:34,828 --> 00:40:35,248 W. Curtis Preston: Yeah. 874 00:40:35,608 --> 00:40:36,958 Yeah, absolutely. 875 00:40:37,258 --> 00:40:41,218 Uh, my only criticism and again, it is something I'm they'll probably 876 00:40:41,218 --> 00:40:44,508 add is they don't yet have MFA. 877 00:40:44,998 --> 00:40:47,668 As part of their things that they manage. 878 00:40:47,673 --> 00:40:50,548 I know some other password managers will manage both your 879 00:40:50,548 --> 00:40:52,588 password and your MFA token. 880 00:40:53,068 --> 00:40:55,498 Um, so I use, I use authy for that. 881 00:40:55,878 --> 00:40:58,938 Chris Hayner: Yeah, that you might wanna check, uh, check your 882 00:40:58,938 --> 00:41:01,458 terms and conditions that might have actually changed this week. 883 00:41:02,028 --> 00:41:05,538 He specifically talked about the two FA options that can be built into 884 00:41:05,543 --> 00:41:06,988 dash land if you want to use them. 885 00:41:07,588 --> 00:41:08,068 W. Curtis Preston: Okay. 886 00:41:08,308 --> 00:41:08,728 All right. 887 00:41:09,418 --> 00:41:11,398 I will do that, Chris. 888 00:41:12,078 --> 00:41:14,598 Chris Hayner: Um, and actually, incidentally, I'm curious what, 889 00:41:14,658 --> 00:41:18,768 what you both think about using a multifactor authentication from 890 00:41:18,768 --> 00:41:20,958 a password management company. 891 00:41:21,778 --> 00:41:24,898 W. Curtis Preston: Whether or not that that violates sort of the, 892 00:41:24,988 --> 00:41:25,138 The 893 00:41:25,153 --> 00:41:26,653 Chris Hayner: separation of, yeah. 894 00:41:26,908 --> 00:41:27,148 W. Curtis Preston: Yeah. 895 00:41:27,148 --> 00:41:28,888 I I've gone back and forth on that. 896 00:41:28,888 --> 00:41:32,368 I, I, I, I, I've gone back and forth on that. 897 00:41:32,518 --> 00:41:35,638 Let's just say I, I, I was considering changing it because of that. 898 00:41:35,638 --> 00:41:39,148 And then I had the same thought that you did of like, you know, 899 00:41:39,568 --> 00:41:41,308 maybe I shouldn't, I don't know. 900 00:41:41,848 --> 00:41:44,878 Prasanna Malaiyandi: I, I think the, I think the one thing to consider is like 901 00:41:45,118 --> 00:41:49,228 with the MFA, I would say a password manager is probably better than SMS 902 00:41:50,218 --> 00:41:52,288 based, two factor authentication, 903 00:41:52,728 --> 00:41:53,078 Chris Hayner: Right. 904 00:41:53,223 --> 00:41:53,513 W. Curtis Preston: Yeah. 905 00:41:53,938 --> 00:41:56,278 Prasanna Malaiyandi: and some of the other forms of two factor authentication, 906 00:41:56,278 --> 00:41:59,008 is it as good as a standalone app? 907 00:41:59,758 --> 00:42:03,418 Probably not, but in order to make it seamless and easy for the user, I 908 00:42:03,418 --> 00:42:08,668 think that trade off may be acceptable, especially for the consumer side. 909 00:42:10,183 --> 00:42:11,653 Chris Hayner: I think that's the correct answer. 910 00:42:11,658 --> 00:42:14,833 And it kind of also goes along with the theme that we've been having here, which 911 00:42:14,833 --> 00:42:17,443 is there's multiple levels of security. 912 00:42:18,943 --> 00:42:22,863 It's up to you to determine how much is right for your use case. 913 00:42:23,758 --> 00:42:26,188 As long as the answer is not no security. 914 00:42:27,358 --> 00:42:28,708 We're in a much better place. 915 00:42:30,023 --> 00:42:30,313 W. Curtis Preston: Yeah. 916 00:42:30,473 --> 00:42:33,283 I, I, I think now that I'm thinking back, and, and again, we, we 917 00:42:33,283 --> 00:42:34,933 should just investigate this. 918 00:42:34,933 --> 00:42:36,703 Well, we'll see what, we'll see what they've done. 919 00:42:37,033 --> 00:42:38,353 Like I would still want. 920 00:42:38,758 --> 00:42:43,768 Like if it's not, if I don't still have to reach for my phone, that's not really MFA. 921 00:42:44,608 --> 00:42:45,028 Right. 922 00:42:45,178 --> 00:42:49,318 If I don't have to reach for a second device, something that I own, if it's 923 00:42:49,318 --> 00:42:52,978 just the password manager's gonna manage my MFA, that's not really MFA. 924 00:42:53,608 --> 00:42:53,998 Right. 925 00:42:54,358 --> 00:42:54,958 Um, 926 00:42:54,958 --> 00:42:57,448 Prasanna Malaiyandi: but, but what if it's your password manager 927 00:42:57,448 --> 00:43:00,658 plus using your face ID on your 928 00:43:00,958 --> 00:43:02,788 W. Curtis Preston: no, I'm, as long as I have to reach for my 929 00:43:02,788 --> 00:43:04,378 phone, that's what I'm saying. 930 00:43:04,378 --> 00:43:05,908 As long as I have to have my phone on my. 931 00:43:06,358 --> 00:43:09,448 Prasanna Malaiyandi: but so say you're logging in from your phone into a website. 932 00:43:10,333 --> 00:43:11,413 W. Curtis Preston: That's I'm fine with that. 933 00:43:11,593 --> 00:43:12,793 That's I'm, I'm fine with that. 934 00:43:12,793 --> 00:43:18,253 What I'm saying is, is when I'm on a browser and then if the browser 935 00:43:18,253 --> 00:43:22,003 version of Dashlane will manage both my password and my MFA token, 936 00:43:22,303 --> 00:43:24,133 that's everything all in one place. 937 00:43:24,133 --> 00:43:28,603 And that could potentially be cuz then if somebody's got my master password, 938 00:43:28,603 --> 00:43:30,213 then they're in, there's no multi. 939 00:43:30,718 --> 00:43:33,148 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Specifically about that Curtis, about the browser. 940 00:43:33,388 --> 00:43:35,728 I think one thing you could do, and I think I know Okta does, 941 00:43:35,728 --> 00:43:38,668 this is even on your laptop. 942 00:43:38,788 --> 00:43:43,228 Uh, if you use Okta and you log in, it has the ability to ask for your 943 00:43:43,438 --> 00:43:45,988 touch ID to verify that that is you. 944 00:43:46,348 --> 00:43:48,478 So it's not that it's automatic, right? 945 00:43:48,483 --> 00:43:49,258 It's just, you don't need to 946 00:43:49,318 --> 00:43:49,678 W. Curtis Preston: Oh. 947 00:43:49,678 --> 00:43:50,248 Oh, okay. 948 00:43:50,638 --> 00:43:51,148 I see what you're 949 00:43:51,148 --> 00:43:52,198 Prasanna Malaiyandi: push a button or something else. 950 00:43:52,198 --> 00:43:53,848 It's still using another factor. 951 00:43:53,998 --> 00:43:54,388 It's just 952 00:43:54,478 --> 00:43:56,458 W. Curtis Preston: something that I own could be my finger. 953 00:43:58,178 --> 00:43:58,668 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Exactly. 954 00:43:59,293 --> 00:43:59,893 W. Curtis Preston: All right, Chris. 955 00:43:59,893 --> 00:44:03,283 Well, Hey, you know, this, this was, this was like three guys in the same 956 00:44:03,288 --> 00:44:05,263 choir, all singing the same song. 957 00:44:05,353 --> 00:44:05,683 Right? 958 00:44:05,683 --> 00:44:07,843 We were all We 959 00:44:07,978 --> 00:44:08,878 Chris Hayner: I was thinking about that. 960 00:44:08,893 --> 00:44:10,003 W. Curtis Preston: same page there. 961 00:44:10,093 --> 00:44:10,933 Uh, 962 00:44:10,993 --> 00:44:13,393 Chris Hayner: The title of the episode could probably just be, yes, I. 963 00:44:14,338 --> 00:44:14,968 W. Curtis Preston: Yes. 964 00:44:14,968 --> 00:44:15,358 Yes. 965 00:44:15,358 --> 00:44:15,838 I agree. 966 00:44:15,988 --> 00:44:18,898 What is interesting is that we've chosen three approaches, right? 967 00:44:18,898 --> 00:44:19,768 I've got dash lane. 968 00:44:19,768 --> 00:44:22,048 You've got last pass and he's got, what is it? 969 00:44:22,048 --> 00:44:23,028 Key pass 970 00:44:23,838 --> 00:44:24,298 key pass. 971 00:44:24,328 --> 00:44:24,478 Yeah. 972 00:44:24,483 --> 00:44:26,878 Which is a self-hosted, uh, thing. 973 00:44:27,388 --> 00:44:30,388 Um, but just do it, man. 974 00:44:30,418 --> 00:44:31,828 Like, I, I don't know. 975 00:44:32,548 --> 00:44:36,958 It it's so, and the thing I think it's like, it's like, I, I, I'm gonna 976 00:44:36,958 --> 00:44:38,698 liken it to virtualization again. 977 00:44:39,088 --> 00:44:44,188 And that is like, like you don't get virtualization, try it right. 978 00:44:44,188 --> 00:44:49,588 Once you've tried what it's like to, to be virtual, then you're like, why did I ever 979 00:44:49,593 --> 00:44:52,438 use har you know, uh, raw metal, right? 980 00:44:52,438 --> 00:44:56,278 Or bare metal once you've seen what it's like to log into 981 00:44:56,278 --> 00:44:58,108 websites via a password manager. 982 00:44:59,233 --> 00:45:02,083 You're like, how did I ever not do this? 983 00:45:02,143 --> 00:45:02,623 Right. 984 00:45:02,923 --> 00:45:03,193 I, 985 00:45:03,433 --> 00:45:03,723 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Yeah. 986 00:45:04,413 --> 00:45:06,493 W. Curtis Preston: it is just so much easier and so much more 987 00:45:06,493 --> 00:45:10,873 secure, uh, than, than anything that you're gonna do on yourself. 988 00:45:10,993 --> 00:45:16,003 Um, whether you cell phone, I'm not counting you, you know, I'm 989 00:45:16,003 --> 00:45:17,233 saying, you know what I mean? 990 00:45:17,233 --> 00:45:20,413 Like, like, like anything else, like spreadsheet or a normal 991 00:45:20,413 --> 00:45:21,673 person doing it by themselves. 992 00:45:21,763 --> 00:45:22,063 So. 993 00:45:22,363 --> 00:45:22,663 Chris Hayner: Right. 994 00:45:22,663 --> 00:45:22,813 Yeah. 995 00:45:22,813 --> 00:45:26,473 What I often tell people is if you're skeptical, just do 996 00:45:26,473 --> 00:45:27,943 it for one or two websites, 997 00:45:28,438 --> 00:45:28,858 W. Curtis Preston: Yeah, 998 00:45:28,963 --> 00:45:31,423 Chris Hayner: because then if you don't like it, no harm, no foul. 999 00:45:31,603 --> 00:45:32,893 You un install and you move on. 1000 00:45:33,838 --> 00:45:38,248 But just see what it's like, do something, you know, do something like cover your 1001 00:45:38,248 --> 00:45:42,598 Facebook or go with something more secure, cover your banking account. 1002 00:45:43,078 --> 00:45:45,178 You know, you probably have a vested interest in keeping that 1003 00:45:45,178 --> 00:45:46,948 password as complex as possible. 1004 00:45:47,938 --> 00:45:48,028 W. Curtis Preston: right. 1005 00:45:48,058 --> 00:45:50,068 Chris Hayner: Feels like a great place to, to practice. 1006 00:45:51,028 --> 00:45:51,418 W. Curtis Preston: Yeah. 1007 00:45:51,448 --> 00:45:51,928 Agreed. 1008 00:45:51,928 --> 00:45:53,578 And, and I know, I don't know. 1009 00:45:53,638 --> 00:45:57,658 Um, I know Dashlane again, I haven't checked in a while, but Dashlane, 1010 00:45:57,688 --> 00:46:00,508 it used to be free as long as you only did it on one device. 1011 00:46:01,288 --> 00:46:04,768 Um, that was, that was their, that was their free version, 1012 00:46:04,978 --> 00:46:07,708 Chris Hayner: They also lock you down to 50 passwords at the moment, 1013 00:46:08,098 --> 00:46:08,578 W. Curtis Preston: oh, okay. 1014 00:46:08,608 --> 00:46:11,728 Chris Hayner: which, you know, like I said, they're going to, uh, pretty much 1015 00:46:11,728 --> 00:46:13,798 an all pay unless you host your own. 1016 00:46:14,098 --> 00:46:15,988 Uh, you're gonna end up paying something yearly. 1017 00:46:15,988 --> 00:46:22,260 But for right now, dash Lane's got their monthly, uh, special 29 1018 00:46:22,260 --> 00:46:26,008 99 for the whole year unlimited access to all of their features. 1019 00:46:26,543 --> 00:46:26,893 W. Curtis Preston: right. 1020 00:46:27,223 --> 00:46:30,343 Chris Hayner: you know, to, to use a very, uh, tortured metaphor. 1021 00:46:30,703 --> 00:46:32,203 It's like five cups of coffee. 1022 00:46:34,258 --> 00:46:34,558 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Yeah. 1023 00:46:34,588 --> 00:46:35,608 It's like, what is 1024 00:46:35,613 --> 00:46:36,888 your security worth? 1025 00:46:37,423 --> 00:46:37,783 Chris Hayner: Yeah. 1026 00:46:37,798 --> 00:46:39,448 W. Curtis Preston: up coffee though, Chris, so, you know, 1027 00:46:40,018 --> 00:46:44,068 um, anyway, well, thanks Chris so much for, uh, for coming on 1028 00:46:44,563 --> 00:46:44,833 Chris Hayner: Yeah. 1029 00:46:44,893 --> 00:46:45,643 It's been a pleasure. 1030 00:46:46,588 --> 00:46:48,568 W. Curtis Preston: and thanks Prasanna for, for film. 1031 00:46:48,568 --> 00:46:51,568 I, you know, I've never actually really asked you what the, what you were doing. 1032 00:46:51,568 --> 00:46:54,118 So I'm glad to, I'm glad to finally hear 1033 00:46:54,193 --> 00:46:57,253 Prasanna Malaiyandi: no, I, yeah, I don't talk about it a lot, but yeah, no, I know. 1034 00:46:57,253 --> 00:47:00,373 You're I know you like to talk about your password manager a lot, but 1035 00:47:02,068 --> 00:47:04,228 W. Curtis Preston: You want a little bit of security by obscurity. 1036 00:47:04,273 --> 00:47:05,323 Prasanna Malaiyandi: yeah, exactly. 1037 00:47:06,178 --> 00:47:06,508 W. Curtis Preston: right. 1038 00:47:07,048 --> 00:47:09,508 Well, Hey folks, get a password manager. 1039 00:47:09,508 --> 00:47:09,898 Will ya? 1040 00:47:10,138 --> 00:47:11,128 And thanks for listening. 1041 00:47:11,368 --> 00:47:14,668 And remember to subscribe so that you can restore it all.