Hey, it's Val. Did you know that we have a reporter up in Newport, Sophia Mattis? Aldis is our WSU Murrow fellow who we share with the Newport Minor. This week, she and Erin Hedge had the mic to discuss her deeply reported piece on the landscape of opioid overdose in the rural areas of No Idaho and Northwest Washington. They talk broad statistics in the story of Jasmine Martin a 23-year-old woman whose family agreed to share the story of Jasmine's deadly March, 2024, overdose all this and more on free range. Hail Luke's still laid off. Val is taking the day and Aaron is sick. So what you've got here is me, the other Aaron and Sophia Mattis Algi, She has excellent work for us that would otherwise not make it down here and is in the studio today. Welcome back to the show Sophia. Glad you're here. Hi Aaron. Thank you. Good to see you. You too. So today we're gonna talk about a big story that Sophia wrote this week about a 23-year-old woman named Jasmine Martin, who died last year of a fentanyl overdose in Priest River, Idaho while trying to get sober on her mother's Priest River is one of the coverage areas that Sophia, gets for us so that we don't have to send our two reporters up there. And it's a really good resource. And this was a really good story. it really struck me for, just basically I think there's a perception of Spokane as being kind of an epicenter of the fentanyl epidemic. I've heard a lot of people say, and I don't have any numbers on this, but just like anecdotally, that Spokane seems worse than like Seattle and Portland in terms of its, fentanyl epidemic. And it struck me that this epidemic is not unique to Spokane or like larger cities like us. It also exists out in rural areas, and I think that kind of strikes at the heart of some inaccurate notions of what city life is like and what vices in cities are like. I was also struck by the, the intimacy of detail that, that you got from, talking to Jasmine's family. And, yeah. So I just wanted to kind of like go through the process of reporting this story, what it was like doing it. I wanna talk about some of the facts of the story. So yeah, let's dive in. I guess first can you just like zoom way out, in terms of the case of, of Jasmine's story specifically, and tell us a bit about the background, the backbone of this story, the characters, the circumstances and what happened to Jasmine and how you got into this story, what your window was into it. Absolutely. To go back in time a little bit before I got this fellowship with Washington State University, I was working at River Mountain Village Advanced Care in Newport and Antonia Patterson, who is Jasmine's sister, was working there as well. And I can't remember exactly what the circumstances were, but it was one day when we were both on break and we were in the break room and just talking. And I had heard her mention her sister before and I was curious, so I just, because she was always, would always refer to her sister in the past tense. And so I just asked her, what happened. And she was very upfront. She told me that Jasmine had died of a fentanyl overdose. And from there we talked about it, but we went on our ways and then it was several months later until I got the job through the fellowship and started writing for the minor and for range. But I still work at advanced care sometimes per diem. Mm-hmm. And Antonia and her mother, Trish, excuse me, Tish Washburn, have been involved in like community volunteer projects to raise awareness about fentanyl and try to expand the availability of Narcan and our communities. And can, can you tell us what Narcan is, just for people who don't know? Oh, excuse me. Yes. Narcan is a brand name of Naloxone. It is a drug that is used to reverse opioid overdoses. If the person is already deceased, it can't do anything. But it, can be very, very handy in getting the person to wake back up again. Thank you. And, so. It was something that, I had thought about in the back of my mind for a while after I got the job being a journalist again. I thought maybe someday Antonio will wanna talk about that. And then there was an article that I think it cropped up in, I wanna say the Seattle Times that was about the trending fentanyl, deaths and nationally, how those were going down. But in states like Washington, they were going up and even though Jasmine, went to school in Priest River, she passed away in Priest River. Just, it was unique to the fact that because. Newport is right next to Idaho. I mean, we're basically, we call it the Ponder River Valley community, even though it covers two states because you know, people, they, we have relatives on both sides of the border. Friends on both sides of the border. People come to watch school events on both sides of the border. So, that issue of, of fentanyl is still intrinsically linked with both communities. And it just came to pass that I, you know, got ahold of Antonia and I said, I'd like to write this story and if it's okay with you and your mother, I'd like to talk to you both and, if you would like to share and well, to be fair, Antonia was the one who got her mother Tish involved. At first, I was just going to talk to Antonia, and then she brought up, you know, is it okay if my mother sits in on this too? And I was absolutely, absolutely. And. Uh, like you and I were talking about earlier, um, if they hadn't spoke to me, the story would've still been okay. It would've been a very serviceable story about, you know, this is trends that we're seeing in our community, and, you know, a few trends about what's happening nationally and statewide. But these two were really the heart of the story. So it wouldn't have been what it was without them. That was a long, rambling way to answer your question. That was perfect. Well, I think that's really interesting to me 'cause it's, I think that like, one of the things we focus on at range, and I talked to you a little bit about this before, is I think that people don't really have a window into how those stories come about. And I didn't know that you had a previous relationship with, Tony before you started working on this story. And I think that that's like. How most journalistic stories work is through connections that you have, connections that you make, one thing that struck me about what you were saying earlier is this story had been in the back of your head since you started. Doing journalism, like kind of was was it like as a story or did you want to write about it during that time or was it just like an earworm that you had? It was just kind of an earworm. I remember many years ago when I was much younger and working at a different newspaper. Um, and you might've, you might've had the same experience to some extent. Like when we were in our twenties, the big thing in rural communities was methamphetamines, right? And then it was, black tar heroin. And I had written stories, during those times about those specific drugs in the communities I was living and working in. And so it was just interesting to me to see how it's shifted and changed. And there's a lot of generalizations that you hear about fentanyl and things. People say that in terms of, it's a bad joke, but it feels like there's a ring of truth to it. When you hear people say things like, you know, back in my day, weed was just weed and acid was just acid. Yeah. And it's just the fact that fentanyl is so prevalent now. Well, and, it's not just simple fentanyl. Right. It keeps cropping up in new forms because Absolutely. The, um, the manufacturers of it keep coming up with new ways to get around export laws and things like that. And so the chemical composure of the drug keeps shifting and people keep losing their, I guess their tolerance for it. And, it's kind of, yeah, this drug is kind of like a shapeshifter. It's not simple marijuana. It's not simple. LSD, you know, the, the chemical composure is, is very complex and it shifts over time. Absolutely. And that's really interesting. And I think that that's like, I think that's one of the reasons it's so dangerous. It's always cut with new things. You know, there's, like, I hear some new weird, thing that it gets cut with. Every time I talk to somebody out on the streets in Spokane who's, who's dealing with these issues, they see some new form of fentanyl come into the community. And, every iteration of it seems more monstrous than the one before it. So yeah, that shifting nature of it is very, is very troubling. you had a connection with Antonia, and you knew that her sister had died, of a drug overdose. What was it like for you to approach her with this story and, how did you pitch it to her? Well, we had talked actually about doing a story, back when I still was working at advanced Care. But it just didn't work out Okay. You know, we both got busy with life and our jobs, and it didn't come to fruition. But this time around, it was something that, my editor had given me the go ahead on because we had discussed how we would do this, from a local perspective. And so I approached Antonia, I'm sorry, I can't remember whether I called her or texted her, but I reached out to her and told her, this is what I wanna do, and I think it would be a better story if you would be willing to talk about Jasmine. And because this is an issue that's so near and dear to her heart. She said, yes, she would. She was very forthcoming. Her and her mother were basically open books and said, ask, ask us whatever you wanna ask us. So you kind of like. You already had the willingness established and you had a relationship with Antonia, and so you had some trust built there. How did you go about being just, you know, and, and like, I think you, you really humanized Jasmine. I think there's like, actually I wanna, pull up your story and read the lead from it. It talks about Jasmine's art says in the illustration, a woman's hair blows in the winds obscuring her face. At first glance, the strategic shades of black and gray make the image look like a computer graphic, but is hand drawn with pencil. That creativity is one aspect of Jasmine Irene Martin that her older sister, Antonio Patterson would like people to remember her for. And so you got like some really intimate, like you were able to look at her art and you were able to like, you know, plump some really like intimate details from her personality and bring them into the story. How did you go about being like empathetic with them and. What questions did you ask? Right from the beginning, we were able to set the tone that, and this was very important to Antonia and Tish, and, it was something I wanted to put at the forefront was that, Jasmine was a human. She was somebody's sister, somebody's daughter before she was an addict. And, I think that's something I think you hear, across many stories about addiction or someone who's struggling is that it's really easy to just boil them down to a statistic or just go straight into the drug use and, how that affected their life. And it was really important to, to all of us. I think that, people see Jasmine, for who she was. I mean, addiction was something that ended her life and obviously it, it, was something that she, she struggled with, but, you know, she, that was just a facet of her life. It wasn't the whole thing. So it was really important to me to try and get details into the story that reflected that. Can you, can you tell us exactly what happened? It's spelled out in the story, and if you, if you wanna go read it, it's on range media.com. But, yeah. Can you, can you, can you talk to us about exactly the, the, the sequence of events that led up to Jasmine's death? I will do my best. To summarize, Jasmine was. By everyone who knew her, described as very bright, very loving, very loyal. She was really into athletics. In high school, she was named all league and softball. It sounded like that people had a lot of affection for her and she really enjoyed school. And then when she graduated, she got her certified nursing assistant certification and she was, doing her art. And then from what I was told, she met someone in the community, a local boy who basically, from what Tish told me, gave Jasmine the idea that fentanyl was just like smoking weed. And according to Antonia and Tish, the change was almost overnight. How she went from this seemingly vibrant, funny, outgoing person to. Like self isolating, not engaging with her friends and family as much. Tish said that when she came over to her house, she noticed that something was really off with her. And she had told her mother that she was, doing marijuana dabs and Tish, who is a recovering, drug addict herself, 16 years sober. She said that she knew right off the bat that, you know, no, that's, that's not what's happening here. It's something else. And, Tony and Tish said that like she was very evasive. Like if they would try to approach her, like, are you okay? Is everything all right? Like, she just didn't wanna talk about it. Or she would find ways to skirt around the subject. And then one day it was, actually Jasmine's birthday month. I think it was 2023 if I'm remembering the story correctly. Antonia and their other sister Jordan had taken Jasmine out to a bakery here in Spokane, just like a little birthday celebration. And it was during that day that both Jordan and Antonia just came right out to her and said, like, we're really worried about you. Something is wrong. And Antonia said that Tisch just started to, no, excuse me, that Jasmine just started to cry, because she was just so ashamed about her addiction, which is just heartbreaking. Antonia said that Jasmine thought that, her family would be embarrassed by her, that they would judge her for where she was at. And they just really, really wanted to help her. Hmm. And it sounds like she really tried for a while. The part in the story that, um, well there's many parts in the story where I, that touched me deeply, but, when they talked about her trying to get sober where she was going to a methadone clinic in Coe d'Alene, and for those who don't know, COE d'Alene is about an hour away from Priest River. So she would have to wake up at four o'clock in the morning to drive an hour to Coe d'Alene to get to the clinic at five o'clock and stand in line for an hour until the clinic opened at six to get one pill. And the pills were distributed on a first come, first served basis. And she tried, she tried for a long time, but. That's not sustainable. And so she stopped going. And I think you saw, when you were editing my story, you saw the line in there where Antonia said it was easier for her to get fentanyl and drugs than it was to try and get sober. And I, and I wanna dwell on that a little bit later, but, but yeah, like it's extremely difficult to, to like access mental healthcare. Exactly. Exactly. And that unfortunately seems to be a repeated lament across the board whenever we're talking about these kinds of subjects. She's in a situation where she's waking up at four o'clock every morning. Obviously that's something that's not sustainable for most people. What happens after that, when she stopped going? Um, I believe, I'm jumping around in time here a little bit. So, um, at one point she was living at Camp Hope here in Spokane. And Tisch was doing, and so camp, so just for people who weren't around Camp Hope was a homeless encampment on, I believe it was third Avenue in Spokane kind of between Spokane and Spokane Valley. And it was a huge issue, in the local business community. There were several stores nearby that really didn't like the fact that there was a homeless encampment there. It was a massive focus of news, attention, attention from the state. It was on, I believe, department of Transportation property and eventually they had it cleared. It was there for, I think at least a year and a half. It's a little bit before my time in Spokane. I'm a little hazy on the details, but camp Hope was a huge deal here. Any intersection with that just kind of shows, especially with people from. Places that are kind of far away shows how prevalent that issue is, especially for people who are struggling with addictions to opioids, other drugs. Um, but yeah. Sorry, go ahead. No, thank you for putting that in there. That's good context. Uh, Tish was going down and visiting her regularly as much as she could. At Camp Hope, yeah. Okay. And, she said that Jasmine would apologize a lot. Like, I'm, I'm so sorry I'm this way. You know, I'm, I'm, I'm so sorry that I'm putting you all through this. And, Tish just said that you know, it, it's where you're at. I love you. Yeah. I just want you to be safe. I just want you to be okay. Until one day she said that she went there and Jasmine wasn't there. And no one could tell her where she was. And so, Tish and the rest of the family just went. Moved mountains to try and find where she was. They were calling hospitals. They were calling police departments. They were calling, morgues. They were just putting notices out on Facebook. They were putting up flyers, trying to find out where she was. How, how long did this go on? I think it went on, Tisha Antonia, if I've got the timeline wrong, I apologize. I think it went on for like a couple weeks. Okay. So just like somebody disappears off the face of a planet for at least days, right? Right. Okay. Right, exactly. And from what I understand before that, it had been pretty easy for Tish to get in contact with her at the camp. 'Cause she did have a cell phone too. Okay. And then one day, Jasmine showed back up and she had, staples in her head. And she had no idea that anyone was looking for her, but apparent, oh, go ahead. Where did, where did she show back up to? I think she showed back up to the camp. Okay. Again, I know Antonia and Tish are going to listen to this later, so if I've gotten that wrong, please let me know. But I believe she showed back up to the camp. Okay. And she had been beaten up and robbed when she was high. So she had no idea she had Staples in her head. Yeah. And she just had no idea. So she'd been brutalized and had gone to the hospital at some point. And, I believe it wasn't long after that that when she moved into the trailer on Tisha's property in Priest River to try and get sober again. And from there it sounded like everything was working out. She wasn't hanging around with the people she used to do drugs with. She was doing her artwork again. It looked like she was doing a lot better, physically and emotionally. Tish said that she and Jasmine would talk every evening. Tish would go out to the trailer, like, how was your day? And they would just visit with each other and they would talk about their own struggles with sobriety and addiction and just in general, check in on each other. And it was the evening of Easter Sunday last year, 2024. Tish said that, that night she didn't go out and talk to Jasmine because her other daughter, stormy, who is a teenager, wanted to spend some time with her, some quality time, like watch a movie, cuddle on the couch. And Tisha was like, you know, she's a teenager. That moments like that rarely happen anymore. So of course I said yes. And when they were done with the movie, they were tired, so they went to bed. Next day Tish got up early for Sunrise service at the church he used to go to in Old Town, which is also in Idaho. And since it was so early, she was like, I'm just gonna let Jasmine sleep. She went and did her thing, came back from church service, and her daughter Stormy, said, you know, I just got up not that long ago. I haven't seen Jasmine yet. So Tish went to the trailer, knocked on the door, didn't get an answer. Knocked again, still no answer called Jasmine's name. Not getting any response. So she said that she looked through the window and she could see Jasmine in bed, but she wasn't moving and she wasn't responding. And so of course she got more frantic, stormy heard what was going on and came outside and Tish told her, you know, get ahold of our neighbor. Something's wrong. Neighbor came over and they were able to force open the door of the trailer. And she said that she hurried over to Jasmine and grabbed her by the shoulder and turned her over. And she said she knew right then that she was gone. It was around not long after that. Antonia and her sister Jordan were at their father's house in Cleed for Easter breakfast and. Tish called her ex-husband's cell phone, which they all thought was strange because, you know, they were exes, they didn't Right. Communicate that much. And so Jordan answered the phone and, Antonia said that Jordan's face got really pale and then she hung up the phone and she said, well, Jazz's dead. Mm-hmm. And Antonio, her first response to me was like, well, no, she's not like something. You heard that wrong. Whatever you thought you heard it was incorrect. So she called tis back and tis was sobbing and screaming. So of course they got in the truck and they immediately drove over to Priest River, which is about roughly 15 minutes away. Okay. From Cleed. And yeah, Antonia said that they got there and she saw a bunch of law enforcement vehicles by the trailer, but she didn't see any ambulances and she knew right then that Jazzy was dead. Because if, if there had been any, any chance of reviving her, there would've been an ambulance there. A medical response. Yeah. Yeah, exactly, exactly. And Tish did say that they gave her Narcan when they found her, but she says that the details get really fuzzy after that. She really doesn't remember much. She doesn't remember calling 9 1 1 or, anything really that happened that much after that. She said it was just kind of a nightmarish haze that she was moving through. She said that it was just, um, one aspect of the story that really got to me was during the interview like Antonia was. Well, she was just kind of recalling, like she was not necessarily teasing her mom, but like you were really angry, weren't you? Like at the policeman that was coming up to them and she was like, yeah, I was. And it was not against him specifically, but it was just the fact that he was coming over to tell her what she already knew. Yeah. That like her daughter was dead. And since then they've just been trying to honor Jasmine's memory by bringing awareness to the issue of fentanyl and the lack of, resources in rural areas for people who are addicted, who want to get sober. And, how are they, how are they doing that? Tisch volunteers with this new nonprofit in our area called Heart Bridge. There was a Heart Bridge event last year in Old Town where they had a table where they were passing out information about, fentanyl and, Narcan and what you can do in a situation if you find someone who's overdosed. And they're very open, they're very trusting, they're willing to share their story with anyone who asks. And, they're hoping to branch out and talk to more people, talk to maybe some officials, and share Jasmine's stories and hopes that it can do some positive change. And Jasmine's death is still being investigated, correct? Correct. Yes. They do not know where she got the fentanyl. There was evidence in her trailer that she had been smoking it, but they don't know where she got it. So I wasn't able to get any more information than that because it is a case that's still under investigation and it's been more than a year. And you don't have any answers? Not yet, no. So this is a very like, I think that detail from your story really struck me as I just illustrating how impenetrable this issue is because, you know, we know that we have police who are investigating, how these drugs get trafficked in our communities. But when they get to the end point, it just seems like there's no. Did you talk to police who were confident about whether they were gonna figure it out or do you have any sense of what's gonna happen with the case? Unfortunately, I wasn't able to get ahold of anyone from Idaho State Police. Oh, that's right. Yeah. I remember that note in your story. But I think it's something that, I'm definitely going to follow up on. I would like to hear from them, or at least get them on record as to if they can say where they're at right now or if they do have a suspect. The, priest River Police Department was really helpful. Their chief Drew was really forthcoming. You have many quotes from him in your story. And it's this, a lot of this didn't make it into the story, but just, I think there was like a month where they had in the span of the same month, like they had a fentanyl overdose in Priest River, and then they had another one. The person didn't pass away, thankfully. And then the very same month, like one of their, I included this part in the story. Their, uh, deputies was across the border in Newport at the local McDonald's just getting a milkshake in his off time. And the staff recognized him as a police officer. And they're like, there's someone in the parking lot who's having an overdose and again, in, in less than a month. And I know that might not be unique for a lot of places. I'm sure that there are similar stories out there like this. But for our little community, it's a lot. What's the population of Preser? Oh gosh. I. I here I can look it up. Yes. Let's look it up real quick because I don't wanna give the wrong number. No worries. I included the populations of Ponder and Bonner County, or excuse me, Bonner County in my stories, but not of Priest River in Newport. So Priest River, there's 1800 people there, as of 2023. And I think in Spokane, you know, you go walk down the street and it's not unheard of to just, be walking and see somebody overdosing. But we have a population of, actually, I don't know the population of Spokane off the top of my head. It's, uh, something like 200,000. Let me, um, that seems like, that seems like a correct number. Let me verify that. Yeah, it's 230,000, which is like. And Spokane even feels like a small town. People will say it's a big small town, right? Like everybody knows each other. And a place like Priest River to have multiple overdoses so close to each other, that just seems like, I think this is kind of where I want to go with this is like, I think there's a notion that drugs and transients and like all kinds of, you know, things that kind of intersect with homelessness, obviously. Jasmine was in Camp Pope for a while, and how that intersects with, drug usage, our like evil, big city problems. Mm-hmm. But I think it, it seems like it's, moving out into the rural communities and you've lived. In that region of the state for, I mean, not in Idaho, but you've always lived in Washington, right? Yes, sir. Yeah. But you've lived in areas like that for a long time. Does it seem to you like it's getting worse out there too? Or is the trend following the city of Spokane? Good question. I feel like it is getting worse in some respects. Like if you look at my story, I broke down, I think it was the past four years, the number of deaths in Bonner County and Ponder County due to overdose, and how many of those involved a fentanyl. And it doesn't seem like a lot at first glance, but for our population, I think it is. It's not something like you, you could go for. Years and not have an overdose like that as a cause of death. I do think though, that it's a problem that's maybe not on the scale and there might be those out there who are more knowledgeable, who disagree with me. Perhaps not on the scale, but one thing, and I'm sure you've heard it too, like, like you alluded to, there's a tendency to think of this as like big city problems. And in the town where I was born, Colville, they are having their own issues with, a homeless encampment. Something I hear a lot from people is not so much in Newport, but you hear where, well, you know, they're busing homeless people in, and I never know who they are, but they're bringing homeless people into our community, which brings drugs and brings crime and et cetera, et cetera. I think people don't realize that. It's like, well, a lot of these people are, like Jasmine, who grew up in Priest River and went to school in Priest River and you know, with Antonia and Tisha's permission, we put some of the story and photos up on our social media and it got a lot of response because a lot of people know her and know her family. Yeah. So I think it's really tempting to look at it as this, you know, this, um, vague other world, uh, almost otherworldly problem. Like, that's not us. Right, exactly. That doesn't happen here. When it does, it really does. And I think, until we get more acknowledgement from, our local leaders. And to be fair, there are a few of our local leaders who are very invested in this subject, and they know that it's a problem and they wanna do something about it, like Drew McLean and Priest River. until we get more people to acknowledge that, it's like, oh, this is not a them problem. This is an US problem too. And maybe it doesn't look the same as it does in a big city, but it's here and it, you know, it's affecting people that you know, that you grew up with. That you grew up with. Yeah. And there's nothing that says that, it can't affect you, you know, because this person, Jasmine Martin was again, someone who was considered very vivacious and very beloved and has a, life history in the community. Yeah. I mean, her roots are intertwined with it. And it happened to her. Yeah. And Tish says in the story, she's like, of all my children, I thought she was the one who I would never have to worry about this kind of stuff. Mm. Yeah. So you, you mentioned numbers, and I pulled them up. So the number of deaths attributed to drug overdoses in Ponder County. In 2020. There were two. In 2021 there were four two involving fentanyl. 2022. Four total. One involving fentanyl, 20 23, 4 total. Three involving Fentanyl. 2024, six total. Four involving fentanyl in Bonner County in Idaho, 2020. Bear with me on these numbers. Four total. Two involving fentanyl. 20 21, 1, no, fentanyl. 2022. Three. Two involving Fentanyl, 20 23, 2 both involving fentanyl and in 20 24, 5, 2 involving fentanyl. So gen generally you see. Both the number of overdoses increasing and you see the involvement of fentanyl in those overdoses in increasing, it's not a perfect line, but it's like, that's, that's kind of the trend, right? can you talk a little bit. We, we meant, we alluded to this before, nationwide, there are like, like, uh, opioid overdoses are decreasing, which is a welcome trend. Can you talk about the numbers involving the Pacific Northwest? And obviously DC is involved too. But I think it's mostly concentrated here. Yes. Yes. It does seem to be mostly concentrated here. I think, forgive me if I'm getting 'em not, I think Wyoming is one of them. It's like Washington, dc, Wyoming, and then it comes over to like western states. Yeah, yeah. US Washington, Oregon, Alaska, and I'm not exactly sure why that is. I know that there are some people who think that it's our drug laws. Mm. There was, which are perceived to be fairly permissive, right? Yes. Yes. Exactly. That perhaps it is our permissive drug laws combined with the, the notion that the infrastructure to help people, you know, really isn't there. I mean, I shouldn't say that. It's there, it exists. There are people who are working really hard to help those who want help, but, unfortunately, more often than not, it seems like those, and I'm sure you hear about that here in Spokane, that those resources are overwhelmed and that it's a lot. Yes, absolutely. Yes. That it's more resources are needed in terms of mental health and, the availability of beds to go to rehab if someone needs to go to rehab, that those just aren't here now. That, that's my theory. That's kind of what I see. Again, there may be people out there who disagree with that, but, I can't speak for Oregon or Alaska, but it seems to be quite the issue here. Well, just anecdotally, I was really struck by this idea that Jasmine had to drive an hour south. At four o'clock in the morning every day to, access her care. And obviously, like you said earlier, that just seems unsustainable. I've been doing some reporting on a couple of young men who, um, were supposed to be, uh, were they were supposed to be getting services from a local health provider that has contracts with, local hospitals, has contracts with, local apartment complexes and with the city and county government. They were supposed to be getting daily visits from, a peer support professional and they weren't getting those visits. And both of these young men, one of them lived in an apartment, in kinda like North Spokane. And his. Tendency there ended in a standoff with police. Because he was having an episode and he was like, he was threatening his neighbors. Then the second person who came into that same apartment complex, actually the same unit, um, was having, was working with the same company and was also not getting visits. And his tendency there ended also in a police standoff that ended like he died in a police, standoff. They, they shot him. Which strikes me as a really poignant illustration of like how, uh, how, um, just like how, how not up to the task of addressing the mental health crises that exist. Our local systems are, this company just didn't have the resources to provide. I'm sure there are other factors at play. I'm still investigating that, but this story made me think of that story. It's everywhere. You talk to a lot of people for this story. You talk to a lot of like law enforcement people. What did they say about that? Did they, did they, is there, like, do they feel like there's any one reason for why, what's happening is happening? Or is it like Yeah, tell, tell me about what they, what they told you including, the priest, preser Police Chief. Chief McLean said that, accessibility to those resources are harder for people in rural areas to come by. And we were talking about this earlier in terms of accessibility to officials in your community, and sometimes there's a lay of bureaucracy, in the case of Chief McLean, he is incredibly open. You can go into the police department and ask if he's there and if he's there, he'll talk to you. You know, you can call him. You were, you were, you were telling me earlier that you can just walk into the department and say, is Drew here? Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. And he is. We're really lucky to have him. And he comes at this from a very compassionate standpoint because he has talked to people who have told him that. It's like, well, if people don't wanna get better, then that's their own fault. Like, why are we wasting money on buying Narcan to save these people who don't wanna be saved, et cetera, et cetera. And like he said, the story, and he told me, he's like, well, you know, if it was my kids in that situation, I would hope, I would hope that someone out there would save them. I would hope that there was the resources for that person. If they were, if my children, one of my children, God forbid, we're having an overdose, then someone out there would know how to use Narcan and see that and jump in and save their lives, regardless of their own feelings. And whether or not they, and I'm saying this with air quotes because of, obviously you can't see us, but regardless of whether or not someone was worthy and. I think, again, that goes back to what we were talking about earlier in terms of the stigma of drugs and how that plays out in a rural community. Especially when you want to get better and everybody knows what's going on with you. And so there might be reluctance on some of their parts to hire that person who is trying to get better, to give them a job, to give them another chance. It's really easy to fall back in with the same people that you were doing drugs with because it's obviously, it's hard to establish your life again. It's hard to make those connections with people who, are not using drugs, et cetera, et cetera. And to go back to your question, excuse me, um, in terms of the availability of those resources, in Newport, in Ponder County, we have Ponder County Counseling, which has, support groups for people who are struggling with addiction whether they're there because they've walked into ponder County counseling and said, I need help. I need an assessment. I wanna stop doing what I'm doing, whether it's that or they've been sent there by the courts. That resource is there. Unfortunately, because it is in Washington, even though, we're right next to each other, we're next door neighbors. They can't service people who live in West Bonner County. So again, for people who are in West Bonner County, you most likely have to travel an hour for service. And if you're, if you're working, you know, if you're just trying to get by to by, in your day-to-day life, like all of us are, and you're struggling with addiction, the likelihood that you're able to travel an hour and keep that going isn't very realistic or sustainable. What I hear you saying is like, there's a divide in resources between the two states, right? Idaho doesn't have as many Washington, you know, for all of its, shortcomings, which there are many. It seems like there are more resources here, which is one of the factors that I think. Or that I've heard a lot of people say draw unhoused people, people who are addicted to substances to Spokane specifically. But you talked a little bit about, you know, the stigma. Like does this person deserve, like if they're choosing to use drugs, like do they deserve to be happy and live? In your experience, and I don't know if you can speak to this or not, like you might not be able to, do you feel like there's also a divide in the stigma between the two states as well as the resources? That's a good question and deserves further exploring. I, I'm not entirely sure. I feel like there are less, obviously, less resources in Bonner County. I'm sure that there are, there are support groups where people can meet, but it's, to my knowledge, it's not structured like it is through pore County counseling. Like there's no place in West Bonner County where they can walk through and, and get that kind of help. And if someone hears this who is in Bonner County and you know, otherwise please correct me, but, and get in touch about stories. Exactly, yes, please, please reach out to us. Um, but in terms of that stigma, I honestly think it straddles both sides of the border. There is more awareness about it than there was even five years ago, I would say. There are figures in our communities, both sides, Bonner and Ponder County, who, you know, this is an important issue to them and they are trying to get more awareness about it and, more resources available to people. I think that underlying stigma that some people have of, you know, who gets addicted to drugs, why they get addicted to drugs, who deserves help, unfortunately, I think that's still very much there in some pockets of our community. And it's kind of, sadly, it's one of those things that, for some people, until they experience it themselves, if, if they experience it themselves, they, they probably, well, maybe that's not fair to say. They probably won't understand, but it's just, it seems like a harder perception to shift, if that makes sense. It's just kind of like an, an entrenched understanding of human nature that doesn't seem like it's really penetrable at all Exactly. At the moment anyway. Exactly. And I think that in a more rural community, I think that ties into our ideas of, ruggedness and being more independent and, why people move away from the city in the first place. Because again, like we don't have those problems here. And it's like the classic idea of like rugged individualism. You have to make your own way, play yourself up by your bootstraps, work hard, like, and it's just like the facts on the ground seem to suggest that human nature doesn't really work that way. It would appear so, yeah. the chocolate chip cookies analogy. Yes. Yes. Can you describe that? Yes. Actually Antonia brought that up too. And, I think I might've said in, originally in my, the rough draft of my story, like, chief McLean said that to me. Mm-hmm. Drew and, like he acknowledged, he's like, this may sound cheesy, but it's, it is a good allegory for what, people are. Potentially getting, when they buy fentanyl, like when, um, when a pharmaceutical company manufactures fentanyl for the legal purposes of medication, you know, there's very strict guidelines that they have to follow about the amount of medicine that goes into each pill. That, that's one thing we should know is like fentanyl is a medication that's used to make people feel better in certain medical situations. Like in some cases it's legal. Um, absolutely. On the street. It's not, yes, exactly. And this is one of the reasons why Yeah, exactly. Exactly. When, illegal fentanyl is manufactured, and this is where the, chocolate chip cookie analogy comes in, there's no proper measuring of ingredients. So it's like a chocolate chip cookie where, you know, you just. Throw in your chocolate chips and one cookie may have like three chips and another may have like 20. And just be overloaded with them. And that's pretty much what you're getting when you purchase illegal fentanyl. You could get a pill or you know, a, a source that has very little in it, so when you take it, nothing happens to you. You just get high or it could kill you the very first time you use it. Mm-hmm. It's the, the extremes there are pretty drastic. You don't know what you're getting when you buy fentanyl on the street. Exactly. And because it's easier for, drug manufacturers, like, excuse me, drug cartels and drug dealers to mix it with other things like. Marijuana or cocaine or what have you. You really don't know if what you're getting is fentanyl or it has fentanyl in it. You think may, oh, I'm just buying some cocaine, but maybe that's cut with fentanyl too. Drew said that that happens quite a bit, you know, and, um, he also, excuse me, he acknowledged that, sometimes when they pull people over, whether it's like they're speeding or they've got a taillight out or they've got a warrant for something else, you look in the backseat of the car and there's just like burnt tinfoil everywhere, which is one of the methods of using fentanyl. Um, uh, burnt 10, excuse me, burnt tinfoil and empty Narcan. And that's, he wanted to point out like that's how strong it is. Like a lot of these people know it could kill them, but it's so they have Narcan on hand in case they. Start to overdose. Exactly. They know it, but it's so strong, it's so addictive that it's hard to stop. And I think that's where the cookie comes in. Well, thank you so for this conversation, Sophia. It's a really good story. I know you worked really hard on it, and we appreciate the journalism. That's our time this week, so I'm gonna close this out. Free Range is a weekly news and public affairs program presented by Range Media and produced by Range Media and KYRS Community Radio, thanks so much, Sophia. We'll see y'all next week. Thank you.