Welcome back to Become a Calm Mama. Today on the podcast, I

have invited Alicia Grogan to come talk to us

about activities that you can do, really simple activities

that you can do to help your kids be calmer and more

regulated. Alicia is an occupational therapist,

and she specializes in helping kids who

have sensory processing disorders, ADHD, autism,

and also just kids who feel overwhelmed and struggle

with maintaining their emotional regulation, their sensory

regulation. And in this episode, we talk about

sort of what the sensory inputs are

and what are the clues that your child might be struggling with

those inputs, and then a bunch of strategies and

ideas of how to help your child

reregulate and also preregulate preset their

nervous system in times of transition. So if you're struggling with getting your kids

to come sit at the table, clean up toys, get in the

bathtub, get to bed, get up in the morning, get out

of the bed, get their shoes on, all of those normal

difficult times in the day where you kinda need to get

your kids to do the next thing. We go through and talk

about a bunch of ideas to support your kids to make

those transitions easier. I can't wait for you to

meet Alicia, and then also please check out her website, which is

called your kids' table, and get access

to her downloadable and all of the resources

that are on her website. We go through and talk about some of the things

that she has in her free downloadable, which is

called sensory essentials. So So I highly recommend you go pop

over, get a copy of that, and then dive into this episode, or

you can do it afterwards too. So I hope you enjoy meeting

Alicia.

Well, it's so nice to have you on the podcast. Yeah. Thanks for

having me. Yeah. Yeah. It's good. I'm excited. I

wanted to just jump right in because sometimes I noticed that in

the prerecord, there's like good stuff. And then I'm

like, well, that's annoying because I have to, like, say it over again. So I'll

just jump right in. Yeah. Welcome to become a calm mama podcast.

Alicia Grogan. So welcome. I'm so happy to

have you here. Thanks so much for having me. I'm so happy to be here.

Yeah. I'm gonna introduce you and have you introduce yourself, but I wanted to say

how I found you. And it was through Instagram

as a suggested for you because I'm a parenting coach. I don't have

little kids, but I get a lot of, like, suggestions.

And a lot of times I ignore them, to be honest. But something

intrigued me about your sensory activities, and I was like,

this is something that comes up with my clients all the time is

they wanna know how to help their kids regulate their

nervous system. And I teach a lot of

compassionate parenting tools, how to calm ourselves, and then how to calm

our kids. And what I noticed is that they have a lot of trouble figuring

out once I validated the feeling, what do I do

to help my kid work through that emotion or work

through that overwhelm? And I just I got your little

freebie, the sensory essentials, and I just loved it. I was like, I have to

have you on the podcast. So that's how I found you, and,

yeah, that's why you're here. Oh, well, thank you so much. I can talk

about sensory for days, so I'm excited I'm excited to talk about

it. Yeah. It's so great. So introduce yourself. Tell us a little bit about you,

and then we're gonna get into, like, what it is, what sensory like,

a sensory behavior you know, behavior overwhelm

is and what are some strategies to cope with that, and it'd be really

practical. But first, let's start with, like, your story. Yeah.

Absolutely. So I am a pediatric occupational therapist

for twenty years, which is kind of crazy

now. I am also a mom of three kids myself that

are now 10 to 15 years old. Mhmm.

Interestingly, my kids have given me a full range of personal

experience now as well. So, one of my kiddos

has ADHD. Two of my kids

have had anxiety diagnoses,

although we're in a really good place right now. We have walked through some really

hard, times, and

we I have been online

forever. It's like 2012. I am

an OG blogger and, you know,

yes, I'm very active on Instagram now. That is kind of our

primary way of reaching folks these days

with talking about sensory processing, picky eating,

retained primitive reflexes, and all this stuff actually can really

go together. And emotional regulation, executive

functioning skills, all of these things that I really specialize in as

an OT. So Say what an OT is because not everybody knows.

Yes. I'm so glad you said that. So OT is an occupational

therapist, and occupational therapist work

with all ages and all types of abilities. So

if you've ever been in rehab because you had an

injury, you may have worked with an OT.

Kind of similar to a physical therapist, they tend to work on the upper half

of the body. As occupational therapists work with

children, there's lots of different specialties that they can go into. So it

could be feeding difficulties is what we would call them, but it's, again, really

severe picky eating, kids having a hard time chewing or swallowing their

food. It's basically anything that affects daily

life. Occupation is such a weird word and they created this

profession in the early nineteen hundreds, but occupation means daily

activity. So that's where occupational therapy comes from. So it's like

your daily activity therapist. So anything that's kind of coming

up in your daily activities, occupational therapists are

really trained to help. And then there's, you know, different specialties.

So my sets my specialties have become sensory

processing and picky eating just because early

in my career, that's who most of the kids on my caseload

were. And so I had good at helping them. Yeah. Yeah. And I was

like, picky eating stuff you have on your the resources you have on your

website are so good. And, like, there's a whole world. There's so much good stuff.

And I wanted to have you back to talk about picky eating. I've

talked about it a lot of times on the podcast because I have a

kid who has a sensory processing disorder.

And it really showed up as ARFID, which is that,

avoided food restrictive intake disorder. Pretty severe.

And we did OT and things like that. It's just been a long journey. He's

19 now and will, he just

has disordered eating at this point, but he is open to

eating some new foods. So I I can really relate to the

struggle of that and how hard it is to, you know,

overcome when you have that. You know, he also had sensory issues with clothing

and all the things. Yeah. It is, I remember him getting

a fever, and he was, like, just screaming sticky,

sticky, sticky. He's, like, maybe seven. And I'm like, what is

sticky in his hands? Because he was sweating. It just any time of

sensory input, like, the rainy day at

school, strange smell. I mean, he was just he was

pretty, you know, intense. Yeah. And then my other

kid has pretty severe ADHD. And so it was always as a

lay practitioner working towards I just come up with

stuff, like random stuff, like, hey, let's just, you know,

compression. I'm gonna do a baby burrito or, you know,

a Sawyer sandwich or whatever. And, you know, and like,

we would do little games with, like, pound your feet five times

jump up and down all these different activities. Because because I was just trying to

figure out how to get them back in their body and calm them. And now

I'm like, oh, this is also sensory activities.

It is. And clearly, you were following your instincts, which is just

is huge. And those were, I'm sure, immensely beneficial for your

kid. Yeah. Yeah. I remember one morning, my son

was, like, he looked to me to be a disaster on his way

to, like, first grade. And when I was friends with a teacher,

and he was, like, laying on the floor in the morning with a blanket

over his head and just kinda like a puddle. And I

sent a photo to her and I was like, good luck today. I don't know

what I am bringing to school. And then she

said, well, that whatever that was was great because he was

super great all day and seemed really calm. And I

realized, oh, it was like he was able to really take care of

his nervous system in the morning and have that blanket and have that

darkness for a bit and be in that, like, small

positioning. And he really kinda was in his body

enough and calm himself. You probably know more of, like, what happened to the brain.

But then he went to school and he was, like, better. And I was like,

oh, this is a clue to me that this is how this kid needs to

kinda preset his

nervous system or his dysregulation or whatever. Like, just his

sensory input so that he can then go in and take in a lot of

new information. So it was kinda like that, like a lot of trial and

error. Yeah. That's awesome, though. You were connecting the dots, and you're right. You

just you regulated his system. And so often, what is happening

is our kids that are neurodivergent

and really my, you know, my definition is not official medical term. It's kind of

like a buzzword right now. And for good reason, you know, I think that there's

just such a push to awareness of,

look, like, we cannot compare all kids to some,

like, golden norm, when

we really need to acknowledge that,

some kids, adults, have unique brain wiring

that is causing there are this is what is causing

these sensory sensitivities, causing, the

brain to work or function in a different way than what we might

consider, quote, unquote, normal or typical.

And that, you know, for me, that's first an awareness and

of acknowledgment of, wow. My kid isn't

bad. They're not trying to give

me a hard time. I'm not failed.

Being manipulative. That's what I hear a lot in my practice. You know, parents

will say, you know, they're manipulating me. And it's like, well, they're

manipulating the environment to get their needs met. They're manipulating

their own way of communicate like, it's

a it's a form of communication of some sort of dysregulation or

unmet need. It's not that they are like, okay. Say

they are manipulating you. Manipulate for what purpose? To become

calm, to get the support they need. And

they are thinking, oh, I maybe not even thinking, but,

like, this is the best way, best strategy I have right now to get my

need met. And as the parent, when we can see it that way without judging

it, it's like, well, okay. This is information. Obviously, this is

a symptom of some sort of sensory overwhelm or dysregulation.

Let me now invite my child into these activities that you

have that can then maybe guide that child

through that overwhelm. Right. Yeah. So getting out

of that critical thinking, that criticism

is so helpful. Right. And I think what you're right, one of my

favorite things to say is all behavior is communication. No matter

what you are seeing your child do, it's some level of

communication. And so the thing that I think that is

challenging is, you know, we we have these kind of cultural

norms, kind of wider cultural individual family cultures, the way we were

raised, what we were allowed to do, that kind of stuff all playing a role.

But then there is also we also have sensory

systems. So when our child is

banging on the wall for ten straight minutes,

we we our our needs may

be increasing. We are likely becoming very dysregulated

if our child has been crying, whining, hanging from the

ceiling fan, running wild through Target, and you can't get

them to settle down. So, you know,

once we are dysregulated, it's hard to not react from that

emotional place too. So I think it's important to we all have a sensory system

to acknowledge that, so that you can really look at

all behavior is communication, and then you can take

steps to help them. Yeah. Any listener in this

podcast knows what you they're they're like, yep. Yep. Yep. Because they've been taught that

many, many times. In my process that I teach, the Calm Mama process,

it's calm, connect limits that correct. And it's calm

is all about the parents emotional regulation. Because

as I've been in my practice, you I love all the strategies of

connection and setting boundaries and following through and, you know, being

empathetic and problem solving all of it.

But when I first started teaching all these strategies, people will be like, it's so

amazing, but I can't remember. I can't remember to do it. And, I was like,

what's going on? I realized, oh, because they can't access their own

executive functioning and their, their

bank of strategies in order to then put them

in place. So, yeah, the Become a Calm Mama, the

purpose of this podcast in many ways is that emotional

regulation. So for the for our conversation, I think it's good just like, okay, everybody,

we know it's hard. And it's like,

you're gonna struggle and you're gonna need to be using I think I think some

of these you can use on yourself. That's what I love about the sensory

activities. Yeah. Like, calm yourself. And then while you're calming yourself, your

child will might be attracted to what you're doing or you'll get back online

and be able to offer these strategies to your kids.

So yeah. Absolutely. For sure an issue

for all of us. Yes. I completely agree. Yeah.

Yeah. I was gonna say about the neurodivergence that

and this is, like, maybe a rabbit hole, but I really

do believe that what we label

neurodivergent is based on a

society that created a what

works best in this environment with time, with

school, the way we structure it, with the

inputs of, like, you know,

tech now or or whatever, like just a lot like

traffic and noise and like whatever our environment, we've created

a pretty messy environment that then

requires a lot of order as a society to keep

it together. So there's a lot of expectations and

time is such a huge issue and how to behave and how to be in

in sitting in your in your seat and being your body.

And I don't think species

wise, we were really all of us were meant to live this

way. Like, what we'd label neurodivergent is

actually a very vital and important

part of our species that just doesn't quite fit in this

society that we've created. I completely am

tracking you, and I completely completely make sense to me. And just, again, in

my own personal life, my my oldest son is

gifted and

does I I actually just said this this week. My middle son has

ADHD, and we just had some really major

challenges this last week school wise. And, you know, a

teacher said to me he needs to put in more effort.

I was like, oh, we need to talk. That's like He's working

so hard all day long. All he's doing is

working so hard. Like, that's not what's going on here. So she got a lesson

in executive functioning skills and what like, what was actually

the problem. But I I, you know, I

I I said several times this week. I said this system was

created for my oldest son and the way his brain works.

And it continues to propel and push him forward

while it continues to edge out my son that is

creative and spontaneous and has all of these other

really wonderful gifts. That we need. We need as a

species, as a culture, as a group. I just

yeah. Parents get very overwhelmed when their kid gets an ADHD diagnosis

or or sensory issues or autism and, and,

those kinds of neurodivergent things. They are challenging. We're

I'm not saying they're not, but we if we can see

the beauty of it and how vital it is and like that we've created a

system that doesn't work for them. It's not that their brain doesn't work.

Yeah. It's like the it's a mismatch.

It's like a missed, a

missed opportunity to let those types of brains flourish. And that's just the way

we've decided to create a society. Right.

Exactly. Because we do see I mean, there's just some

exciting stuff coming out with schools being set up in different ways,

like movement based schools and,

different styles of teaching where kids are just excelling in really exciting

ways. And the movement can be

so key because, you know, all

of these things really do go together. You know, our I know

we we're talking about just kind of emotions, and we kind of I

think, culturally, we tend to think of these things as different. Like, we

have our emotions over here. We have our sensory needs over here.

You know, we have our basic, needs like sleep and eating over here,

but, really, these things are also interconnected and

play such an important role together. So

when a child has sensory sensitivities,

or child has sensory, like, seeking needs, and it can be a mix

in between the two. Some kids are really seeking out certain types of sensory

input. Some kids are really avoiding it. But, again, the most common thing is I

will see a kid that wants to be naked, so they have these sensory sensitivities,

but they're also the kids that are hanging from the ceiling fan trying to

get as much, like, proprioceptive and vestibular

input, which is like we have three hidden senses that most people

don't know anything about that are Tell us what they are. Yeah. So

one is proprioception, which is my favorite. It's body awareness, and we

have receptors all throughout our joints and our muscles throughout our

body. You can't see them, but they are there and they are

activated with pressure. So when a child jumps,

they're activating that sense. When a child gets a hug when we had

get a hug, we're activating that sense. When we lay under a heavy

blanket and we snuggle in, we are getting lots of proprioceptive

input. It is the only sense baseline

that that grounds

almost everybody. Like, they really can't even point to and research that kids

have sense sensitivities to proprioception. Every other one of the

seven senses all can have, like, kind of these

variations with kids being sensitive, seeking, and sometimes not

even registering them, which can cause kind of a cascade of challenges

through throughout their life. So proprioception is one.

Vestibular is the second. That is deep in our inner ear, and you

all are very aware of the vestibular sense if you've ever had motion sickness,

car sickness. If you love the thrill of being

on a roller coaster and that stomach dropping feeling,

all of that is related to our vestibular sense. It's also deeply connected to

our visual sense, hence, the car sickness. So when we're

moving, our our movement is perceived by this

fluid swishing around deep in our inner ear and what we're seeing. If

those things aren't synced up, we get the car sickness. Very common as we get

older, but not common for kids that are

young. And it's important why they can spin and spin and spin.

Yeah. And like Right. Many kids can do that, and that can actually be a

sign of kids not really registering it or,

you yeah. The spinning can get really complicated because sometimes But, you know, just little

kids, do they, like, can do like, I'll do it two times, and I'm like,

oh. But yeah. Right. In general, little kids can spin longer than

adults. And they should. That's actually helping them

process sensory input better. That's why we typically see kids doing

these things. Mhmm. Sensory processing is a building block of

all development. When kids are not processing vestibular

input correctly, it can actually lead to reading difficulties down the

line. Yeah. Probably with the visual tracking and

things like that isn't getting developed. It's so important that they're getting this

stimulation. And some some of these senses, again, if a child has a lot of

sensitivity to, it's important in a in a respectful

way to start to help them get used to some of these sensations

because, in a very kind of methodical

supported way because some of

them just cannot be avoided. You can't avoid not ever getting in a car or

experiencing movement. It can cause, like, a baseline

kind of foundational anxiety in a child's life that can, again, just kinda

have a ripple effect going across it. So that's something like a lot of OTs

do or I teach in my courses because those

sensitivities can have such a massive impact. Now, the third hidden

sense is called interoception, and that is the

sense of all of our internal sensations. So it is

our emotions because we have palpable feelings

in our body from our emotions. I sometimes say energy

and motion. Right? Emotion is energy and motion. Right.

So you and inside like, yeah, it's you can feel it's gonna

vary from person to person. So if maybe you might

not be aware of this, anybody listening right now, you might not even be aware

of this. But the next time you have a big feeling, you feel really

happy, you feel really angry or sad, anxious,

stop and think about where you're feeling that in your body. You are feeling it

somewhere. Your chest might be getting tighter. You might be feeling lighter if

you're very happy or joyful. There there

are sensations in your body that you are feeling that are actually

queuing your brain. I'm feeling I am feeling this

way. So that interoception is also

responsible for registering if we feel hungry, if

we feel full, if we have to use the bathroom,

if my belly's hurting, you know, I have an upset stomach,

pain anywhere inside of our body. And so you will see

variances for with kids that have trouble

processing these kind of interoceptive feelings. They may not

have an awareness of their feelings. They may not they

may some parents will say they have an incredibly high pain tolerance because they're just

not even really recognizing those sensations or they're super sensitive.

You know? Like, they graze up against the wall and they're crying

that that hurt. So those are the

three hidden senses, and we really do within those eight senses,

with the exception of proprioception, we see kids

seeking, avoiding, or even not really registering

those those sensations. And it's very, very common for

kids with ADHD and autism, but I have seen

tons and tons of kids that have kind of just isolated sensory needs and don't

have those diagnoses either. So it's not an indication. They are

kind of separate aspects that happen. But when a

child's needs aren't being met, like, let's say they're trying to avoid,

something or, like, they're wearing the clothes that are so uncomfortable for

them, as their dysregulation increases,

their brain is only able to handle so much dysregulation

before it moves into meltdown mode and they are,

like, fully operating from that amygdala instead of

kind of operating within their executive functionings and problem solving.

That can even happen for kids that are seekers

and aren't able to get their needs met. So when you have a kid that

has a lot of proprioceptive and vestibular needs and they need to

move to feel regulated and they have to sit in a desk all day,

those kids that hold it together and then melt down when they come home Yep.

Be what's happening. Or they're melting down or lashing out in school

because they are unable to regulate their body.

And the same thing can act I mean, the same thing happens with emotions. Because,

again, when our emotions get so big and we don't have tools

to regulate them, our brain is going right back to that

amygdala. And as soon as the amygdala takes over, kids are in fight or

flight. And so Yeah. How you're gonna see all of the all of

the behaviors coming out, which again Mhmm. Are still

showing us, hey. There's a problem we need to address here.

Yeah. Yeah. It's information. And if we can of course, we're very

overwhelmed by it. But, yeah, we can see it as information. I think

it's really interesting. I I don't know. Like, I remember with one of my boys,

as soon as we would go he would go in the swimming pool, he would

immediately become dysregulated. And it was like weightlessness without that I

think that proprioception. I don't know if it was overwhelming for him to

have water, like, to have weightlessness and to be

immersed in water or what? But I would it's just

like, once I realized it, we did some exercises before he went in the

pool. I set a really strong boundary. You're welcome to be in this pool as

long as there's no splashing, whatever. I'll pull him out, put him back in, pull

him out, put him back in, and just kinda keep reregulating his nervous system or

his, you know, sensory input system. And I I don't know if you've if if

that's anecdotal or if you've seen that. I don't know. I'm just actually curious.

It's actually, I wonder if it had

more to do with the splashing. Is this the same son that has had clothing

sensitivities? No. It was my ADHD kid. He just get he would just get completely

dysregulated. I'm like, god. What is going on with this kid? As soon as he

gets in the water, it's like there's no boundary or something. There's no

compression. I couldn't figure it out. Really interesting because

normally, swimming is one of the most,

sensory rich experiences because you're getting proprioception all over your

body from the water that's pushing in on you.

However, you're also getting lots of tactile input from

the splashing, so that can be a challenge. There's

also if there's any vestibular sensitivities because of that

weightlessness and tipping back, that can feel

very scary to kids. Or if they're not able to touch, they

can absolutely or there's, like, a legitimate fear of

just the water. Mhmm. A child can be getting super dysregulated just

because there's Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's so it's just so interesting because it's

like, I think it's so helpful to look for patterns in your kid. When are

they acting out? What's this trigger? What's the what seems to

be the circumstance or the environment or whatever

it is, and then kind of problem solving from there looking

for patterns. And, like, if that's

before school or after school or at bedtime, like, that's what I

was wanting to talk about is when

of course, during a big meltdown, we can talk about that, like, how to pull

your kid in. But a lot of times, it's very challenging because they're kinda like

the train has less left the station and whatever they're doing to regulate is

what they're doing to get back online.

But I so we can talk about how to handle that. And then I also

wanna talk about kind of, like, almost preventive

intervention and then, like, post post

issue, like, how to, like, get back online after a big

meltdown. Because I do I do notice

when we create a regulated environment and we kind of, like, ground our

kids or offer the sensory input or the the break

from the sensory input, whatever it is that they need, before an

event or shortly after a hard event, then you don't

build up so much, of that overwhelm.

Right. So I wondered if we could talk about, like, in in the middle, you

know, how to intervene, but then also it's not preventative. It's just more

it's more like keeping a shorter account on the sensory input.

Like, you know? Right. Because there's a lot of imp you know, you put there's

a positive positive positive, but then, like, how do they release some of it? Yeah.

Right. Absolutely. So for me and what I

really always teach is understanding what your child's

needs are. So, you know, when you're able to

kind of, like you said, look for those patterns and know how

every time we're in a busy environment, they really start to

fall apart. Or school's a really long day for them because they

are expected to sit so much for them. Like, they they're really

dysregulated when they come home. And so

I'm always thinking of dysregulation as kind of like an old fashioned,

mercury thermometer with that mercury just kind of like going up

and down. And and that's true for all of us. We all

probably have times during the day where most of us where

we're getting dysregulated at times. Hopefully,

we have the tools to help kinda just bring our regulation back

down. Often our kids kind of get stuck in that dysregulation,

and it can just keep growing. If the dysregulation doesn't get dealt

with, it's going to grow to that to that

meltdown mode. And like you said, at that point,

they're now in fight or flight. That's what when they're in a full meltdown, they're

in fight or flight. There is no reasoning in anything you're saying

to your child is more input that they have to process and is probably going

to push them even further. So the prevention

is huge, a, and just recognizing the signs

of, like, when your child is starting to get more dysregulated, and b, if you

know that there's those challenging times a day, kind of putting those routines in place

like you said, kind of thinking through, you know,

wow. My son was so much better at school, and he had that kind of

dark, cozy time in the morning. Wow. That was so

helpful. That really regulated his system to start him

off well that day. And so, like you said, that's just

a huge sign of what they need. And so there's so much variability

in what can be helpful. Again, movement in

general is is a is a safe go to, but

as you are trying different types of activities, you know, if you're like, okay.

We are gonna just try jumping. We're gonna do 10 jumping jacks,

or we're gonna jump on the trampoline, or I'm gonna wrap them up like a

burrito, and we're just gonna snuggle on the couch. Testing those things

out, checking with the teacher how and or if your child is old

enough to say, like, how does your body feel? How did your day

go? What was helpful? And if your child is old enough

and has the language, you will be so

surprised if you ask your child at the right time,

meaning when they're regulated. Yeah. What is helpful? They

are incredibly insightful. Like, they things that they

will come up with saying, when my son was four, he was

having major separation anxiety going to school. He had a very,

very strict teacher, was not able to articulate that time. I mean, I

could clearly see that and, that, you know, she

was very strict, and the drop off was brutal.

I mean, just because I I wasn't comfortable with the, like, just

ripping him off of me. But, you know, there's this, like, you know, this difficult

exchange going on, you know, and I'm trying to help him be regulated.

We ended up coming up with you know, I decided after a couple times

of that happening, I'm gonna bounce him on an exercise ball before we go. So

we're gonna count. We're gonna sing. So there's some connection time between us.

Lots of great eye contact. My hands are on his hips. We're bouncing.

I'm singing a rhythmic song. Rhythm is so organizing

to the brain. So, you know, I'm singing the Ansco

marching, and I asked him what else

would help you. He doesn't know a thing about sensory. He

doesn't know that word yet. He said, I wish I

had something in my pocket that I could squeeze.

And I was like, are you kidding me? Like, this four year old is

basically describing a fidget toy to me. So we took you

know, we just made, DIY fidget toys. We took,

latex balloons and filled them with flower and some different textures. He would pick a

different one. And this is my ADHD kid who's just the

biggest heart, and he wanted me to write I love you on the balloon

with a heart so he could pull it out. So now there's this this emotional

connection piece for him. There's this sensory component for

him. I would not have I don't know that I would have thought of that.

It was something discreet he could keep in his pocket, but it was giving him

proprioceptive input to help him while he was

dealing with surges of anxiety. So even though it wasn't a

sensory need, specifically, I think that this was a lot

of anxiety and social separation kind of stuff going on.

He's using sensory tools to help calm and

regulate his system, which was just incredible. So between

those two things, we were able to get him regulated and get drop off

back on track. And we do we kept up with that for probably months

because he needed that support. Yeah. It's so beautiful. And and

letting him kind of problem solve on his own without

being like, here's the list of five things. Which one? I mean, you could do

that too, but just like, what do you need? And he's like, I want to

squeeze something. And yeah. I remember when my son was five and he was in

preschool or kindergarten, it was not a great environment, similar thing, which

restricts teacher and all that. And he come home out of school and his

shirt would just be soaking wet and, like, filthy. And And just from

eating it, you know, just from like chewing on it, soaking

it, sucking on it, and biting it. And then it

being a little boy and it getting really dirty, you know, on the asphalt and

stuff. And I just come out. I'm like, what is what is going

on? And I remember asking him, how do

you feel when you're at school? Like, what how do you how's it feel for

you? And I was thinking you give me a word. And instead he, like,

squatted down in, like, a ninja defensive position, and

he's like like this. And I was like, oh,

okay. So between the soaking wet shirt, the

and, like, chew gnawing all day and this

defensive stance, I was like, we're out. I just pulled

him. I just I was like, I don't know. I don't know what I'm gonna

do, but you're not going back. And it was, like, a lot

of adventures. That's why I do this job is because of him. Yeah.

Trying to find the right fit and the right schooling environment and and all of

that. So but I loved that

similar, like, what it what does it feel like? You know? And he's just does

this, like, defensive ninja move. And I was like, yeah, bud.

That's that's hard to feel that

tense all the time and be that on guard and hyper

vigilant. Yeah. Right. Exactly. Yeah. So

let's talk strategy a little bit because I think people are like, but

what do you guys do? You know?

So I you have this really beautiful

handout that you give for free on, you know, how

to figure out what your kid might need. You know, you

go through kind of a, like, figuring out their own

diet, their sensory diet, and kind of what's challenging and

trying some things, how to kind of figure it out. And then you have a

big list of all sorts of stuff. It's really similar to my stop yelling

cheat sheet, which is for parents. There's a sense I don't call it

sensory diet, but there's a list of things that parents can do when they're overwhelmed.

Mhmm. And, you know, activities and things like, you know, chew

gum or wash your hands or go potty or, you know, jump up and down,

like, stuff like that. And so it really reminded me of of

that. So, yeah, give us some some

go tos, some things to try, and how to use them, how to introduce

them. Yeah. So yeah. And just to speak to

sensory diet, that is such an OT term. And

just to be clear, because so many people think that it

is about food. Oh, right. Right. Right. Yeah. Yeah. The the

a menu. We'll just a sensory menu. Yes. Exactly.

So it's beautiful. And the idea came from I think the term was created in

the eighties, and it was brilliant. You know, it was created by an OT to

say, look, like, the way that we eat and nourish

our bodies throughout the day with food, we also need to do that

with sensory activities, sensory supports. Again, whether that's pulling

away and taking a break from something or whether that's,

getting that movement or though those needs in. And

so I have a lot of occupational therapists that also follow me. So I use

the terminology for them, but I I almost never you

almost never hear me say it on Instagram, which is mostly my

parenting crowd there because I think it's just so confusing. And what I'm confusing for

parents. But that's what it is called in the in the handout. It is. When

parents from my community get the handout, it says that. Yeah. For that.

You will see that. Like, take out dyes from their diet or

whatever or, like, decrease sugar. This is more like hang

upside down. Like, it's like ideas and things that can help

your kid. Yeah. Yeah. And I would say an important caveat

before you you know, if you grab this printable and you're looking at the

list and you get really excited about some of these things, which I hope you

do, don't get discouraged if

you try something like hanging upside down and your kid doesn't

wanna do it or they don't like it. That is a clue

to their sensory needs. So that's why there's kind of a bank

of some starter ideas there because,

again, if a child has vestibular sensitivities,

they are not gonna wanna hang upside down. Now is that something to work on

for their development like you were talking about with the pool? That's kind of a

different goal where you're like, yeah. It would probably be good for you to be

comfortable with the pool. You know, I don't want you to be scared of water,

so we're gonna we're gonna work on this. We're gonna do short bursts. We're

putting up the boundaries, like, yes to all of those things.

And it's also important to understand that sensory needs

fluctuate throughout the day and from day to day

depending on all of the different things that are

happening in that moment. Because

one time, you may try this hanging upside down activity maybe

right when they get home from school and their system is overwhelmed, and that is

just not feeling good to them. It might not even be that they have a

vestibular sensitivity. It just means they might need something else in that

moment. So I would also encourage you to not rule

anything out and be like, woah. We tried that hanging upside down, and they don't

wanna do it at all. And I'm never trying it again. So

kinda keep these activities as kind of tools in

your toolbox as, like, I'm gonna kinda rotate through these and try

them. So hanging out upside down is an awesome one,

and there are so many ways that you can do that. You can have your

like, sit on the couch backwards and just kinda go backwards over the couch.

You can do a backward bend if your kid is able to do that. Even

like a downward dog position is stimulate you know, you're getting your head

inverted, and that is massive stimulation to

the sensory system. Yoga is so calming to us

because we are doing tons of sensory input, like, as

adults. So doing, like, simple yoga poses with your kids

are really awesome. K? Any type of

movement, upside down, swinging

also can be really great. I would focus on linear swinging kind of

just like in a smooth arc back and forth. Some kids do love to

spin, but it can also excite some kids,

and you may be, like, raising their, like,

arousal level or and kinda getting them wilder with spinning. So

Yeah. I would be wary of that. Of course, taking

a cue from your kids. And if you do some spinning in a swing,

you know, keep it focused and

intentional. You know? Like, maybe you're gonna count to five while they spin in one

direction and then go the other direction also. So you're

stimulating their full vestibular system and not kinda getting them out

of balance by just kind of going in one direction. I have seen

some of the biggest sensory seekers including my own son

who, like, absolutely love swinging,

spinning when they have an adult spin them, throw

up. So it is very, very possible. My

mom was watching me do this with my son, and, you know, I went

upstairs to work and she continued to spin him, and she sheepishly

came upstairs and said, he just threw up.

Up. Yeah. Well, I think we have to remember that it can make any

human dizzy. Like Yeah. Exactly. True true fact.

If you spend too much, you might get, dizzy and and throw

up or get, like, you know, fall down or whatever. Yeah. Very because

even these kids like, my son looked like a kid that could spin for

days. Mhmm. When they're not in control of it and you're becoming part of

it, they're not really self moderating it. So whenever you're doing

these activities, if you put your kid on a swing or a scooter board,

I love to, like, get a just a rectangle scooter board and have kids push

themselves around on their belly. That's fantastic. And

I love the engagement in doing it together, but you always kind of wanna be

checking if you're guiding the movement. You always wanna be, like, pausing

and watching their reaction. Like, how are how are they handling this and

not just kind of like, oh my gosh. That OT on that podcast said spinning

was great, and we're spinning for ten minutes, and now they're sick. So

Well, trusting your they're into due with tuition. Like, if I was gonna teach my

kid to blow bubbles in the water, I'm not gonna keep dunking their head in

and, like like, yeah. Check-in with your

human, their person. Yeah. And and let them kind of

reset for sure. Yeah. Exactly. I think I've

I noticed a like, I wonder if you could think of it in categories.

Like, compression

was helpful for my kids at certain times.

And so we did a lot of, like, sandwiches, we call them.

So you'd, like, put a cushion down and then the kid

and then a cushion on top and kinda just

like, bounce. And I'd be like, it's a soya sandwich. It's delicious.

And, you know, kinda pushing that pushing the top of the cushion

down just enough that he could kinda feel it. I'm not

jumping on top of him and smashing his body or anything. Just kinda that

that push, you know, that that pressure. Yeah.

We did, like, the burrito thing, what we we do is we'd lay a blanket

down, he'd lay in it, and then I would just kinda roll him like a

rolling pin or something, like, just kinda back and forth gently on the

carpet and, you know, getting him to, like, kinda roll onto one

side of his body and then roll on the other. Yeah. A

lot of stuffed animal parties. So, like, a lot of stuffed animals, big

ones. He had a big huge teddy bear, and he would just roll

around, wrestle that a lot. And that

always was I mean, for for the most part, very regulating for

him. My other one didn't like that as much. He

really would feel overwhelmed by compression

and kind of bristle.

Yeah. I'm just wondering, like, if they're so that parents can think

of in the moment ways, like, oh, should I

try compression or should I try movement? Should like, what are the I

don't know if you have categories. Yes. So, I mean, in my mind,

categories are always falling under those senses. So the movement stuff is related to

the vestibular. But what you're talking about, the compression is all

related to proprioception. Now any of that compression

stuff is also involving the tactile sense. So for kids that

have tactile sensitivities, compression is usually hard. So kids that

are super sensitive to textures, kids that don't like clothing often

do not like being compressed. That's not always the

case, but it can be. So these are

my these are my first two go tos. I am always thinking

of movement, and I am thinking of that kind of

pressure or compression, and probably the pressure or

compression first. And there are lots of kids that

do both really well and kinda wanna mix up

having one or the other. Other My kid that has, like, real

sensory issues, not the ADHD one, it was, like,

there were all of them. Like, you know, there was, like, a lot of movement,

you know, and he would he really responded well to

well, the three r's of regulation, right, rhythm, relationship, rewards. I'd be like,

okay. We're gonna together, I'd bounce my I'd stomp my

foot one, two, and then he'd go one, two, and then I'd be like, jump

up and down. And then I would jump, he would jump, or jump together, we'd

hold hands. So we're like, that kinda thing what you're talking about with the ball,

eye contact. And then especially when you the reward part is, like, the

count. Like, let's do it three times. One, two, three. And then

the brain goes check. Like, it it gets that little we did it three

times. Right. And a little dopamine boost. Yeah. Just I mean, it's not like a

reward, like, I'll give you a candy if you do your regulation techniques.

It's more just playing with the thing that the brain likes to finish something.

Right. Exactly. Exactly. So if we think about

relationship, rhythm, reward, and that rhythm piece is the is

the movement or the compression, whatever that is, the

singing. Right. And I want I want parents to be able to come

up with their own things, you know Right. As much as they can. Like, if

you're doing compressions or even singing or even swinging,

it is there are so many parents that come to me that have

huge sensory seekers, and they say, I did these things, and

they're still like, they're wilder and out of control. And without

that rhythm and what you're talking about, the time

frame kind of, like, finish, it's going to be. They kind of

need to understand, like, the again, it helps organize the

brain when there is a rhythm that is following because

now the executive functioning part of the brain is getting engaged because it's tracking the

rhythm. And it's and especially as you were saying, like, when you're asking

for the repeat, they're kinda having to follow and engage a different

part of their brain, to be able to do that. So I

am always trying to incorporate rhythm. And

so if I'm, like, squeezing a kid, you know,

I'm humming, I'm counting, I'm singing a

rhythmic song almost every single time.

I also love to, like, if you have that big exercise ball, that big yoga

ball, you can roll that over your kid like a steamroller. That's a good

one. Yeah. Sure you're applying pressure down. Some kids will say more and

more, my kid has such deep needs, and he

was always kind of a bigger kid that I could roll my body weight

on top of the ball. And I would keep my hands kind of, you know,

pushed. And, again, I'm always watching. Yeah. We're not gonna hurt our

children. Right? If you have a two year old if you have a two year

old, don't, like, probably do that with them. But but, again, you can just

apply a lot of a pressure. You can also just take your hands

Mhmm. And you can, just

squeeze down their arms slowly

giving them really deep pressure. You can do that down their legs. You can do

that on their hands, just even their

fingers. If you're out in public, you can do wall push

ups just pushing up against the wall. So you have nothing around you.

You can usually find an open space of wall somewhere

that they can that they can push up against the wall. And, again, you're just

counting doing those wall push ups. You're standing there. You're counting five. Let's

do five wall push ups. We're gonna count together as we push push

the wall so hard to come down, you know. So you're kind of,

again, bringing in that connection that that,

silliness, the jumping comes in with that too. So if your kid

doesn't wanna be touched because they're tactile,

again, jumping is is fantastic. One of

my favorite things to do that really, again, engages that side

of the brain. Kids have to be about four or five usually to do this.

It's called a cross crawl, and you take your hand, you

know, you take your right hand and touch it to your left knee. And then

you take your right hand and touch it to your left knee while you, like,

bring up your knee at the same time. Mhmm. That's demonstrated on

my Instagram account. Everybody wants to, like, see it. But But it's a little bit

like I mean, you think about games we play with little kids. I always think,

like, tell tell parents, like, channel your inner preschool teacher. Right?

Like, what do they what do they do? They do Simon

Says and they, you know, play freeze tag and,

like, you know, stop starts and things like that. Red light,

green light. And it really is to kind of put the brain and the

body connecting the all of those parts and

getting the child to have a little bit more in

agency over their body and understanding of their body. And

that when we just do little tiny thing when they're starting to get, like, in

line, say, or starting to at dinner time, right

before you sit down for dinner, or you're gonna go in the bath and

they get wild and they start throwing water all the time. Like, I think that

these are the times to add in a couple of

we'll get in the bathtub once we do our five jumps or once, you know,

we do our wall push up. I don't know if your thoughts on that. But

bringing those routines or it doesn't have to be routine. I don't

really parents get overwhelmed. Just, like, if you have something that

gets nutty, harness, pull back, get

the child back engaged in their body enough that

they are here in space and time and

feel their body, and then they're able to then go to the

next thing. I think that's really valuable.

Right. Absolutely. And transitions are a perfect time to kind of

incorporate these. Because like you said, you can even do things

like we're gonna leap like a frog to the shower, and now

they're doing it on your way. They're getting lots of input

because what is happens once again, when they move into the amygdala

or they're stuck in the emotional side of the brain, when we pull in that

movement, it again, it's it's pulling in the

executive functioning that allows them to problem solve,

to focus on the task at hand instead of their emotions kind of like

and, again, I mean, as an adult, this is something like I mean, I can

I can see and feel happen in my own brain? So I know that

if I go outside and just take a five minute walk, that I

am going to be so much more regulated when I'm feeling

overwhelmed. And I know that that's not always a solution. But I'm I'm working.

Like, I know that I need to get up and move because

we have to start to engage that that part of the brain again. We can

really get stuck there. So those transition points are

excellent times to kinda be to be doing to be doing those

some things, carrying something heavy. You know, maybe they're pushing a laundry

basket full of their toys down the hallway.

Maybe I my, my son's kindergarten teacher

my two older children have the most wonderful kindergarten teacher. She talked to me

and picked my brain about the sensory stuff all the time. And

on the way to circle time, she bought a small mini

trampoline, put it in her classroom. And on the way to circle time,

everybody jumped two times on and then went and sat down

in the circle. So motivating for the kids,

because there was this kind of natural reward built in. I mean, oh my gosh.

There's a trampoline in my classroom, and she's giving everybody two

big jumps on it as they're going. And the kids are waiting turns,

standing in line quietly because they're excited to get on that trampoline, and then they're

all more regulated and sitting at the circle time paying attention

better. So it was just, like, brilliant, like, little things

like that. Like you said, it does not have to be,

like, these complicated routines. It's just kind of, like, looking for the

opportunities to put them in places. Yeah. Like, do you wanna bear

crawl or leapfrog? Or go into the bathroom. How do you wanna get there? Yeah.

And, like, engaging the body, engaging the brain, and making it

fun. And it I always promise to parents,

like, it sounds like a lot of work, but

having a kid run around at Target and not listen and be completely

dysregulated and run away, that's a lot of work too.

Like, dealing with meltdown after meltdown that's really loud

and nervous system overwhelm for you, that's hard.

That's a lot of work. So I think if they're gonna put the work in,

let's do it intentionally on the front end or

at the end of it. You know, if your kids constantly get dysregulated

right when they get in the car, maybe you don't do carpal line. Maybe you

stop and you walk and you stomp five times before you get

into the car or whatever kind of activity

to pull them back into the body and your leadership.

And, okay, we're about to get in the car and this is a hard time

or, like, slowing it down and connecting

and moving in a specific way before you then go into,

like whatever the thing is that's hard. I mean, obviously, starting homework

is hard. Sitting down for dinner is hard. Cleaning up after the end of the

day is hard. Getting into the bath, getting out of the bath.

Bedtime is challenging. Getting kids to finish breakfast and get

their socks and shoes on. There's a natural times that everyone is

struggling with kids who are

overwhelmed or not, sensory disorder or not. So if we can kind of bring

them back online with these strategies that you teach,

so helpful. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah.

Okay. Any last things we're gonna ask you to tell us how to

find you? Because everyone needs all of your resources.

But do you have anything you wanna add? Yes. But I know if

you are starting to dip your toes into, like, sensory

processing and hearing that,

just it can feel really overwhelming,

you know, just like any new thing that you're kind of learning. And I would

say that just take one little step at a time.

There's not something that, you know, you have to have a full command of

the sensory system and all eight of these senses. But just

starting to even have an awareness of it is absolutely

huge. And you probably already

have instincts about a lot of this stuff more than you the

more than you might be giving yourself credit for. That's beautiful.

Yeah. Take it chunk by chunk. Just a little.

Yeah. Don't don't think you have to figure every single thing out. Trust your

intuition and do some of the things that you recommend.

Like, follow you on Instagram. You have tons and tons of resources

on there. It's really a great you've built a really

beautiful resource for free just sitting there where they're already

hanging out anyway. And there's a lot of noise parenting noise

on Instagram. And, I find

parents feel quite overwhelmed by the

multiple voices they listen to on that

forum. And a lot of times, I'll

be like, just stop it. Like, just pick two and that's enough. So

I'm gonna tell people and pick you. Uh-huh.

Because it really the what you're teaching is so so

valuable. So how do people find you and your website and all

that? Tell us. Yeah. Awesome. So on Instagram, I'm

at your kids table, and I'm

also yourkidstable.com. So it's

y0urkidstable. And we

have a full blog with hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of blog posts too. So

if you're not an Instagram user and you wanna read,

check stuff out, we do have a sensory

program, and we also have a membership that teaches a lot of a lot of

these things too. You can find all of that on our website. It's

so good. I was looking at the website today, your kids' table,

and I was like, oh, this also could be your kid's table.

Yes. I just And I was like, well, that's good too because we want

it's about picky eating. That's where the primary website came from. But I was like,

and also, this helps them be stable. Yes.

Yes. I never thought of it. I always think of, like, the the horse

stable. I really wanted it to be the kids' table, and the website was taken

back in 2012. Yeah. But, No. But I was like, oh, yeah. Your

kid's stable. Your kid's stable. I was like, I I love it.

I love it. I've never thought of it that way. I love it. It goes

both way. Well, thank you so much for being on the podcast. Huge,

like, kudos to your work, and thank you for the resources that you are

offering. Absolutely. Thanks so much for having me here.