1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:03,090 W. Curtis Preston: The only advantage of the Uber in that scenario is you 2 00:00:03,090 --> 00:00:07,670 can get drunk and not worry about it, but I don't think the Lambda function, 3 00:00:08,039 --> 00:00:10,140 you know, is gonna help with that. 4 00:00:30,884 --> 00:00:34,514 Hi, and welcome to Backup Central's Restore it All podcast, I'm your host, W. 5 00:00:34,514 --> 00:00:36,404 Curtis Preston, AKA Mr. 6 00:00:36,409 --> 00:00:41,554 Backup and have with me, my garage lighting consultant, Prasanna Malaiyandi. 7 00:00:41,774 --> 00:00:42,794 How's it going, Prasanna?. 8 00:00:43,124 --> 00:00:43,914 Prasanna Malaiyandi: I'm good, Curtis. 9 00:00:43,934 --> 00:00:48,044 Although I think shortly you will become my garage lighting consultant. 10 00:00:48,509 --> 00:00:49,979 W. Curtis Preston: You think, so you think it's gonna be like 11 00:00:49,979 --> 00:00:51,359 a, like a, what do you call it? 12 00:00:51,359 --> 00:00:53,939 A, the tables will turn. 13 00:00:53,999 --> 00:00:54,447 You think 14 00:00:54,959 --> 00:00:57,599 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Or it's like when the, what is it when 15 00:00:57,599 --> 00:00:58,709 the student becomes a master 16 00:01:02,789 --> 00:01:05,279 W. Curtis Preston: Yeah, this is, this is not one of those areas though. 17 00:01:05,279 --> 00:01:10,139 Where you, where you, you know, pulled out one of your, your 18 00:01:10,139 --> 00:01:13,289 extensive YouTube experiences, as I 19 00:01:13,289 --> 00:01:13,829 recall, 20 00:01:14,159 --> 00:01:17,879 Prasanna Malaiyandi: so I think it's fair to say that you did this project and then 21 00:01:17,879 --> 00:01:19,449 you talked to me after it was all done 22 00:01:20,609 --> 00:01:22,499 had you reached out before I would've? 23 00:01:22,499 --> 00:01:25,629 Yeah, I've done quite a bit of research on garage lighting, so 24 00:01:26,309 --> 00:01:32,519 W. Curtis Preston: of course you have, of course you have, how many YouTube videos 25 00:01:32,519 --> 00:01:34,019 have you watched on garage lighting? 26 00:01:36,179 --> 00:01:40,079 Prasanna Malaiyandi: At least 30 27 00:01:40,379 --> 00:01:41,879 W. Curtis Preston: This is what I'm talking about. 28 00:01:42,269 --> 00:01:46,769 We're back, we're back to you being a random expert in stuff that I have no idea 29 00:01:46,769 --> 00:01:48,989 why you're an expert in, but yeah, I did. 30 00:01:48,989 --> 00:01:53,849 I did this when a little willy-nilly I just sort of, I, you know, I've 31 00:01:53,849 --> 00:01:55,259 been needing that light in there. 32 00:01:55,259 --> 00:02:00,089 This is in my woodworking room that as you, that you know, that I have 33 00:02:00,089 --> 00:02:04,889 built and now, and I, I, I figured that it would be a good idea if there 34 00:02:04,889 --> 00:02:08,459 was good lighting in a place with all 35 00:02:09,119 --> 00:02:09,689 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Sharp tools. 36 00:02:09,959 --> 00:02:10,199 Yeah. 37 00:02:10,349 --> 00:02:15,089 I was actually gonna think if you need like, uh, task lighting as well, or if 38 00:02:15,089 --> 00:02:19,829 there's enough, because depending on like, you don't want the light behind you when 39 00:02:19,834 --> 00:02:23,849 you're on a table, saw trying to cut a piece of wood, you know, you'll get the 40 00:02:23,849 --> 00:02:26,799 W. Curtis Preston: I usually close my eyes when I use a table saw. 41 00:02:26,989 --> 00:02:27,929 Should I not do that? 42 00:02:27,929 --> 00:02:30,389 Prasanna Malaiyandi: And this is like, one of your fingers is 43 00:02:32,189 --> 00:02:33,569 W. Curtis Preston: That one, there you go. 44 00:02:33,569 --> 00:02:40,049 That finger I'm not flipping 'em off viewers that are viewing both these 45 00:02:40,049 --> 00:02:41,909 fingers have been injured in power tools. 46 00:02:42,149 --> 00:02:47,219 My wife gets very angry at me when I display my, my injuries. 47 00:02:47,639 --> 00:02:53,009 Um, and yeah, so this finger, uh, it actually had an evulsion, which is 48 00:02:53,349 --> 00:02:56,759 a, a laceration that removes flesh. 49 00:02:57,269 --> 00:02:58,979 Um, that was not good. 50 00:02:59,519 --> 00:03:02,669 So, yeah, that was many years ago, you know? 51 00:03:03,239 --> 00:03:03,389 And 52 00:03:03,389 --> 00:03:04,799 it's been an awfully long time. 53 00:03:05,279 --> 00:03:05,519 Yeah. 54 00:03:06,449 --> 00:03:07,319 Learned a lot. 55 00:03:08,059 --> 00:03:09,119 Uh, let's see. 56 00:03:09,119 --> 00:03:11,339 The last power tool injury was only. 57 00:03:12,299 --> 00:03:16,919 A, um, a nail gun, a shooting, a nail into my head. 58 00:03:19,484 --> 00:03:20,834 Prasanna Malaiyandi: and that's been a couple years. 59 00:03:20,834 --> 00:03:21,314 Right. 60 00:03:21,569 --> 00:03:22,679 W. Curtis Preston: yeah, it's been a couple of years. 61 00:03:22,679 --> 00:03:22,979 Yeah. 62 00:03:22,979 --> 00:03:26,549 And, and the, the hilarious part was I did it, like, after telling my 63 00:03:26,549 --> 00:03:30,449 granddaughter don't touch this tool because it could do really scary 64 00:03:30,584 --> 00:03:30,704 Prasanna Malaiyandi: yeah. 65 00:03:31,619 --> 00:03:35,999 W. Curtis Preston: And then I send it, I try to send a nail through my, I don't 66 00:03:35,999 --> 00:03:40,319 think it made all the way through, but it definitely cuz I was holding a piece 67 00:03:40,319 --> 00:03:42,869 of wood and shooting a nail into it. 68 00:03:42,869 --> 00:03:45,659 And the, the nail went, it took a corner, 69 00:03:46,529 --> 00:03:49,109 the nail, it bent a corner and it went into my 70 00:03:49,979 --> 00:03:50,609 finger. 71 00:03:54,224 --> 00:03:54,704 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Yeah. 72 00:03:55,394 --> 00:03:57,674 Always be careful around power tools and make sure 73 00:04:00,494 --> 00:04:02,379 you wear your safety goggles. 74 00:04:03,419 --> 00:04:07,919 W. Curtis Preston: All the things, um, you know, always back up your data 75 00:04:07,979 --> 00:04:11,459 always wear your safety glasses and um, 76 00:04:11,879 --> 00:04:12,689 Prasanna Malaiyandi: sure you have plenty of lighting. 77 00:04:13,529 --> 00:04:16,769 W. Curtis Preston: we ha we make sure you have plenty of lighting. 78 00:04:17,369 --> 00:04:22,619 We have a, another cool guest today. 79 00:04:23,039 --> 00:04:24,989 This is one of those people. 80 00:04:25,874 --> 00:04:32,294 Another person who, uh, he has a unique vantage point in that he has 81 00:04:32,294 --> 00:04:33,914 known me for a really long time. 82 00:04:34,454 --> 00:04:38,504 He first got to know me as a customer, meaning he was a customer of mine. 83 00:04:38,504 --> 00:04:43,604 I was a consultant, um, at a company that he used to work. 84 00:04:44,234 --> 00:04:47,384 He, now I am super jelly. 85 00:04:47,534 --> 00:04:55,394 He is now retired and, um, is like, you know, hopping on cruises left and right. 86 00:04:55,454 --> 00:05:02,144 So I really, I dislike this guy, but he's but he's a really good guy. 87 00:05:02,414 --> 00:05:05,414 And, uh, you know, he's been around like me a long time. 88 00:05:05,414 --> 00:05:09,284 So, you know, he's got a few backup stories to tell, welcome 89 00:05:09,289 --> 00:05:11,234 to the podcast, Stuart Liddle. 90 00:05:12,344 --> 00:05:13,604 Stuart Liddle: Hi, how are you doing? 91 00:05:13,754 --> 00:05:14,054 Thanks. 92 00:05:14,054 --> 00:05:14,894 Good to be here. 93 00:05:16,154 --> 00:05:16,334 Prasanna Malaiyandi: I have 94 00:05:16,334 --> 00:05:16,394 a 95 00:05:16,394 --> 00:05:18,074 W. Curtis Preston: and by the way that, yeah, go ahead. 96 00:05:18,079 --> 00:05:18,494 Go ahead. 97 00:05:18,494 --> 00:05:18,644 Go. 98 00:05:19,664 --> 00:05:22,034 Prasanna Malaiyandi: I have a question for you Stuart, when you retire 99 00:05:22,034 --> 00:05:24,554 from the backup industry, right. 100 00:05:24,674 --> 00:05:27,254 Is it kind of like a spy where it never gets turned off? 101 00:05:27,254 --> 00:05:30,764 Like those skills that you're always thinking about when you're on like 102 00:05:30,764 --> 00:05:35,534 a cruise it's like, I wonder if they back up this data, what would happen? 103 00:05:35,614 --> 00:05:35,615 Stuart Liddle: Yeah. 104 00:05:35,615 --> 00:05:40,664 I, I, I have those thoughts from time to time, but you know, that 105 00:05:40,664 --> 00:05:43,004 it's kinda like, uh, a headache. 106 00:05:43,034 --> 00:05:44,744 I wish it would go away real quick. 107 00:05:45,524 --> 00:05:53,174 you know, but, but yeah, I mean, I've been, I've been doing it since like 108 00:05:53,294 --> 00:06:00,734 the early seventies and I started out as a programmer in the Air Force 109 00:06:01,214 --> 00:06:03,524 because I was gonna get drafted. 110 00:06:04,219 --> 00:06:07,739 and I signed up for the Air Force, which may or may not have been a mistake, but 111 00:06:08,594 --> 00:06:10,754 W. Curtis Preston: They still had the draft at that point. 112 00:06:11,459 --> 00:06:12,329 Stuart Liddle: when I was 113 00:06:12,329 --> 00:06:12,809 when I went 114 00:06:12,809 --> 00:06:13,109 in. 115 00:06:14,039 --> 00:06:20,489 Well, yeah, I mean, I got, I got my draft notice the day after I, uh, signed 116 00:06:20,489 --> 00:06:27,929 up and that was in 73, 72 or 72 72. 117 00:06:28,319 --> 00:06:28,679 Yeah. 118 00:06:29,639 --> 00:06:32,669 W. Curtis Preston: So for the record, um, I was in like second 119 00:06:32,669 --> 00:06:34,859 grade, I throw that out there. 120 00:06:36,179 --> 00:06:36,419 Stuart Liddle: and 121 00:06:38,039 --> 00:06:38,909 so, so I 122 00:06:38,999 --> 00:06:40,949 W. Curtis Preston: that I get to feel young Stuart, so, 123 00:06:41,219 --> 00:06:41,369 Stuart Liddle: there. 124 00:06:41,459 --> 00:06:41,909 Okay. 125 00:06:41,909 --> 00:06:42,449 There you go. 126 00:06:42,539 --> 00:06:44,789 Um, so make me feel old. 127 00:06:44,789 --> 00:06:45,389 Yeah, that's great. 128 00:06:45,689 --> 00:06:51,119 Um, so, so yeah, I was doing cobalt programming on punch cards 129 00:06:51,119 --> 00:06:52,589 when I was in the Air Force. 130 00:06:53,699 --> 00:06:57,989 So, and our, and you know, and our backups of those programs 131 00:06:57,989 --> 00:07:00,689 were the punch cards that we used. 132 00:07:01,019 --> 00:07:02,849 And God helped you if you dropped them. 133 00:07:03,389 --> 00:07:06,119 Prasanna Malaiyandi: would they actually make two copies of punch cards? 134 00:07:06,599 --> 00:07:07,349 Like if they, 135 00:07:07,499 --> 00:07:10,589 Stuart Liddle: You know, that never happened, but well, 136 00:07:10,649 --> 00:07:11,759 they, they didn't do that. 137 00:07:11,764 --> 00:07:15,179 I mean, I, it, you know, I wasn't thinking backups at the time. 138 00:07:15,179 --> 00:07:20,489 So if you, if you had a program that you'd written, um, you had the punch 139 00:07:20,489 --> 00:07:24,029 card deck, you could make changes to it, and then you could load it into 140 00:07:24,029 --> 00:07:29,099 the, into the computer and then you could put it on tape if you wanted to. 141 00:07:29,104 --> 00:07:31,529 So that could be, you know, and I'm talking real to 142 00:07:31,529 --> 00:07:33,659 real, the stuff they showed 143 00:07:34,184 --> 00:07:36,644 . W. Curtis Preston: Did you ever, Did you ever, use punch tape? 144 00:07:37,919 --> 00:07:38,549 Stuart Liddle: I did. 145 00:07:39,599 --> 00:07:40,019 Yeah. 146 00:07:40,079 --> 00:07:41,339 I used that as well. 147 00:07:41,429 --> 00:07:46,259 Um, and that was actually cooler, you know, for doing, doing quick stuff. 148 00:07:46,289 --> 00:07:46,979 Oh, okay. 149 00:07:46,979 --> 00:07:47,699 Quick story. 150 00:07:47,699 --> 00:07:48,449 Quick story. 151 00:07:48,929 --> 00:07:56,249 When I was in high school, I, I went to a high school with, in Seattle with 152 00:07:56,249 --> 00:08:01,259 Bill Gates' older sister, and she and I were in the same calculus class. 153 00:08:01,709 --> 00:08:05,399 And Bill Gates and I were in the same boy scout troop, 154 00:08:06,329 --> 00:08:06,719 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Oh 155 00:08:06,749 --> 00:08:08,489 Stuart Liddle: and yeah, really? 156 00:08:08,609 --> 00:08:09,149 Yes. 157 00:08:09,539 --> 00:08:09,759 Yes. 158 00:08:10,229 --> 00:08:14,249 And, and Bill Gates went to a school called Lakeside, which was in the 159 00:08:14,249 --> 00:08:22,049 Seattle area, but he had a, um, there was a place in Seattle called Computer 160 00:08:22,049 --> 00:08:27,689 Center Corporation, which had some DEC, 10 gear and stuff like that. 161 00:08:27,689 --> 00:08:33,779 And my high school had a computer programming class and our 162 00:08:33,989 --> 00:08:35,729 teacher took us to that place. 163 00:08:35,729 --> 00:08:41,189 And we did some, um, I think it was, um, Fortran programming or maybe basic. 164 00:08:41,639 --> 00:08:44,339 And we were using punch tape at the time for that. 165 00:08:44,849 --> 00:08:50,669 But, but when we went in there, apparently that was one of bill gates Hangouts, and 166 00:08:51,019 --> 00:08:58,679 he was not well thought of by the people that managed that data center, because 167 00:08:58,679 --> 00:09:03,119 he would typically come in and do things to make their lives miserable, like 168 00:09:03,124 --> 00:09:05,399 crash the computers and stuff like that. 169 00:09:06,329 --> 00:09:08,549 So just, there's a bit of trivia for you. 170 00:09:08,909 --> 00:09:09,149 Yeah. 171 00:09:09,149 --> 00:09:09,359 Yeah. 172 00:09:09,659 --> 00:09:14,909 Typical high schooler, but look where he is now, you know, a divorced billionaire 173 00:09:16,379 --> 00:09:19,409 that's about, as much in the way of bill gates stories I can tell. 174 00:09:19,889 --> 00:09:20,759 W. Curtis Preston: That's interesting. 175 00:09:21,189 --> 00:09:25,959 Stuart Liddle: We talked earlier about, um, something that happened very 176 00:09:25,964 --> 00:09:29,109 early on in my after military career, 177 00:09:29,979 --> 00:09:38,289 um, which was, I went to work for a large bank in Seattle that doesn't exist anymore 178 00:09:38,294 --> 00:09:41,469 and not because of this incident, but, um, 179 00:09:41,654 --> 00:09:42,654 W. Curtis Preston: That's good to hear. 180 00:09:42,669 --> 00:09:48,699 Stuart Liddle: They, they, uh, they had, they had a situation that one 181 00:09:48,699 --> 00:09:52,119 of the guys came to me one time and I hadn't been on that job for 182 00:09:52,119 --> 00:09:53,559 very long, maybe a month or two. 183 00:09:54,159 --> 00:09:58,389 And, um, this guy came up to me and he says, Hey, we need some help. 184 00:09:58,659 --> 00:10:09,729 Um, we just had the last tape copy of this information get overwritten. 185 00:10:10,989 --> 00:10:13,719 they only had three copies, you know, the. 186 00:10:14,604 --> 00:10:16,854 Grandfather father and son, whatever. 187 00:10:17,034 --> 00:10:20,244 I don't know what, whatever they wanted to call it, but, but in any case, they 188 00:10:20,244 --> 00:10:26,484 needed to have this data brought back and they asked for me to help with it 189 00:10:26,484 --> 00:10:28,074 along with a couple of other people. 190 00:10:28,434 --> 00:10:34,764 And basically the only information they had on that data was all on printouts. 191 00:10:35,394 --> 00:10:35,664 You know? 192 00:10:35,664 --> 00:10:38,934 So here's the latest printout that we have and here are the 193 00:10:38,934 --> 00:10:40,764 columns of data and whatnot. 194 00:10:41,034 --> 00:10:41,934 Can you help us out? 195 00:10:41,934 --> 00:10:49,734 And we had to figure out a way, okay, we need to have data entry people type in 196 00:10:50,519 --> 00:10:55,674 stuff from the printouts and then put it together in the right order and stuff. 197 00:10:56,394 --> 00:10:56,784 Yeah. 198 00:10:57,414 --> 00:11:02,134 So that was my first, I guess, data recovery project that I ever worked on. 199 00:11:02,174 --> 00:11:02,934 Prasanna Malaiyandi: And how long that 200 00:11:03,224 --> 00:11:03,844 Stuart Liddle: never thought 201 00:11:03,864 --> 00:11:04,164 of it. 202 00:11:04,164 --> 00:11:07,614 I, it only, I think it only took us. 203 00:11:07,734 --> 00:11:10,584 Um, well I think the data entry took a while. 204 00:11:10,584 --> 00:11:15,189 I don't recall exactly about that, but I know that the people that I was working 205 00:11:15,189 --> 00:11:21,699 on this with, we each had a piece of it to write, to pull the data from whatever was 206 00:11:21,699 --> 00:11:28,719 gotten in through data entry, into, um, a, the, the format that it needed to be in. 207 00:11:28,724 --> 00:11:33,879 I, and I, and I think that part may have only taken a couple or three days, 208 00:11:33,879 --> 00:11:38,649 but the actual data entry part could have taken quite a bit longer, but 209 00:11:38,649 --> 00:11:40,299 we were, we were able to get it done. 210 00:11:40,389 --> 00:11:40,959 So 211 00:11:42,144 --> 00:11:44,844 W. Curtis Preston: So they, so they had multiple tapes of it, 212 00:11:44,849 --> 00:11:47,124 but somehow all three had been 213 00:11:47,829 --> 00:11:48,519 Stuart Liddle: overwritten 214 00:11:49,059 --> 00:11:49,359 Yeah. 215 00:11:50,439 --> 00:11:50,769 Yep. 216 00:11:51,729 --> 00:11:55,299 And it was, and it was based on a certain period of time, you know? 217 00:11:55,299 --> 00:12:01,929 So like after seven days the grandfather got over it and then after 14 days, 218 00:12:01,934 --> 00:12:03,639 the father got over that kind of thing. 219 00:12:04,524 --> 00:12:10,044 W. Curtis Preston: And then it's funny, that is not a data restoration story. 220 00:12:10,044 --> 00:12:11,724 That is a data reentry story. 221 00:12:13,314 --> 00:12:15,324 that's like the worst case scenario, right. 222 00:12:15,879 --> 00:12:16,389 Stuart Liddle: right. 223 00:12:18,339 --> 00:12:20,619 W. Curtis Preston: Yeah, well, we don't have printouts anymore. 224 00:12:20,649 --> 00:12:22,959 Nobody's gonna be a printout. 225 00:12:23,109 --> 00:12:27,909 Um, unless you're like a, a CPA, they like to print out paper 226 00:12:27,914 --> 00:12:29,679 and have it hanging around. 227 00:12:30,579 --> 00:12:35,199 Um, but yeah, it, it reminds me of my, my first data, you know, 228 00:12:35,204 --> 00:12:36,579 restoration nightmare, because. 229 00:12:41,154 --> 00:12:41,214 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Oh, 230 00:12:42,039 --> 00:12:45,669 W. Curtis Preston: also had, when we had this outage, it was, it 231 00:12:45,669 --> 00:12:47,229 was, it was a purchasing database. 232 00:12:47,229 --> 00:12:49,569 And when we had the outage, I went to go look for the tapes. 233 00:12:50,139 --> 00:12:52,209 And I was told to look at the logs. 234 00:12:52,209 --> 00:12:55,029 It, they, that these were unique systems and this was dump. 235 00:12:55,029 --> 00:12:57,909 And I was told to look at the logs and I was told to look for these certain errors. 236 00:12:57,914 --> 00:13:01,209 And if these errors were there, then go to the previous backup. 237 00:13:01,929 --> 00:13:04,029 Well, I kept going and I kept going and I kept going and 238 00:13:04,029 --> 00:13:05,139 the errors were always there. 239 00:13:05,799 --> 00:13:10,899 And, uh, eventually I found a backup that was, you know, that was valid 240 00:13:11,319 --> 00:13:13,449 and it was just over six weeks old. 241 00:13:14,079 --> 00:13:16,719 And, uh, our retention period was six weeks. 242 00:13:16,839 --> 00:13:17,139 Right. 243 00:13:17,769 --> 00:13:24,579 And, you know, I remember just wanting to crawl under, and, and that, you know, 244 00:13:24,579 --> 00:13:31,419 speaking of speaking of dudes going on Alaskan vacations, uh, this morning, 245 00:13:31,424 --> 00:13:33,639 I'm literally looking at on Facebook. 246 00:13:34,329 --> 00:13:40,449 Another friend of mine, that is the guy that saved my bacon on that day. 247 00:13:40,914 --> 00:13:43,614 His name's Joe Fitzpatrick, another guy whose name comes up 248 00:13:43,614 --> 00:13:47,424 once in a while in the podcast, he doesn't even remember this event. 249 00:13:47,694 --> 00:13:48,144 Right. 250 00:13:48,174 --> 00:13:53,844 Um, I just remember that he, he pulled up the Unix, you know, command prompt, which 251 00:13:53,844 --> 00:13:57,894 at that time for me was still like magic. 252 00:13:57,894 --> 00:14:03,834 I was only in maybe a couple of months and he did some stuff with 253 00:14:03,894 --> 00:14:11,454 F S C K or something, and somehow got the drive to a point where 254 00:14:11,459 --> 00:14:13,164 we could get something off of it. 255 00:14:13,794 --> 00:14:16,104 And we only lost. 256 00:14:16,569 --> 00:14:19,299 Two days worth of purchase orders in this database. 257 00:14:20,519 --> 00:14:25,059 And to me, that became, you know, the, the, the defining moment in my career. 258 00:14:25,059 --> 00:14:27,189 Like, I'm like, that's not gonna happen to me. 259 00:14:27,699 --> 00:14:29,939 And to Joe, it was just a Tuesday. 260 00:14:30,669 --> 00:14:34,719 So to him, it doesn't, he doesn't even remember this story. 261 00:14:35,019 --> 00:14:39,519 It's like this single handedly, like the, the single most defining moment of my 262 00:14:39,519 --> 00:14:41,289 career and Joe doesn't even remember it. 263 00:14:41,649 --> 00:14:44,319 And now he's off, he's off to Alaska sending me pictures. 264 00:14:44,324 --> 00:14:46,959 Like you've been sending me from your Alaska cruises 265 00:14:48,834 --> 00:14:48,894 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Yeah. 266 00:14:49,089 --> 00:14:49,599 W. Curtis Preston: so 267 00:14:49,889 --> 00:14:50,109 Stuart Liddle: So 268 00:14:52,029 --> 00:14:55,329 W. Curtis Preston: do you remember the first time we worked together? 269 00:14:56,049 --> 00:14:56,469 Stuart Liddle: yeah. 270 00:14:56,529 --> 00:14:58,629 Yeah, it was, it was at Amgen. 271 00:14:59,289 --> 00:14:59,919 Um, 272 00:15:00,799 --> 00:15:01,579 W. Curtis Preston: And was Thousand Oaks 273 00:15:01,579 --> 00:15:01,859 Stuart Liddle: to help 274 00:15:01,929 --> 00:15:02,659 W. Curtis Preston: or was in Seattle? 275 00:15:03,339 --> 00:15:04,659 Stuart Liddle: It was in thousand Oaks. 276 00:15:04,869 --> 00:15:05,259 W. Curtis Preston: Okay. 277 00:15:05,319 --> 00:15:05,679 All right. 278 00:15:06,069 --> 00:15:06,759 Stuart Liddle: Well, okay. 279 00:15:06,764 --> 00:15:07,239 Wait a minute. 280 00:15:07,239 --> 00:15:07,659 Wait a minute. 281 00:15:08,079 --> 00:15:08,739 You're right. 282 00:15:08,919 --> 00:15:13,959 There was a class that you did in Seattle. 283 00:15:14,799 --> 00:15:19,089 To the people that were there just after the merger. 284 00:15:19,794 --> 00:15:20,124 W. Curtis Preston: Right. 285 00:15:20,124 --> 00:15:21,774 They had, yeah, it would've 286 00:15:21,789 --> 00:15:22,089 Stuart Liddle: yeah. 287 00:15:22,089 --> 00:15:27,549 And so you did a class on NetBackup and because they were using 288 00:15:27,549 --> 00:15:32,629 NetBackup at, um, Amgen and you did a class there on NetBackup. 289 00:15:32,649 --> 00:15:33,159 I remember. 290 00:15:33,159 --> 00:15:34,749 I, I think that's what happened. 291 00:15:35,004 --> 00:15:35,454 W. Curtis Preston: yeah. 292 00:15:35,724 --> 00:15:39,894 The, the, the funny thing is, you know, like I was not a NetBackup instructor, but 293 00:15:39,894 --> 00:15:42,664 it was like, this is how I use NetBackup. 294 00:15:42,684 --> 00:15:44,814 That's what I remember if I was gonna 295 00:15:44,814 --> 00:15:45,134 do. 296 00:15:46,124 --> 00:15:49,989 Stuart Liddle: That was in 2002, I believe. 297 00:15:50,694 --> 00:15:52,704 W. Curtis Preston: Oh, it was a few years ago. 298 00:15:53,394 --> 00:15:54,624 How do you remember that year? 299 00:15:55,074 --> 00:15:56,424 I'm so bad at years. 300 00:15:56,529 --> 00:16:00,609 Stuart Liddle: were, there were certain things that happened in certain years. 301 00:16:00,614 --> 00:16:04,149 I mean, that's, that's, that's one of 'em, you know, it's like, that's when 302 00:16:04,154 --> 00:16:11,949 I, as part of that merger, they took a group of people at, at the Seattle 303 00:16:11,949 --> 00:16:17,829 office and they said, You can either go to work for us in thousand Oaks 304 00:16:17,829 --> 00:16:20,289 or you can get laid off in October. 305 00:16:21,774 --> 00:16:24,864 W. Curtis Preston: You're like, I think I'm gonna move to Oxnard Camarillo. 306 00:16:24,939 --> 00:16:29,589 Stuart Liddle: yeah, well actually it was thou um, uh, Camarillo, but that's okay. 307 00:16:29,589 --> 00:16:29,919 Yeah, 308 00:16:30,639 --> 00:16:31,719 yeah, yeah. 309 00:16:31,899 --> 00:16:32,589 Close enough. 310 00:16:33,009 --> 00:16:35,559 But, um, yeah, 311 00:16:35,604 --> 00:16:36,144 W. Curtis Preston: um, 312 00:16:37,104 --> 00:16:38,934 Prasanna Malaiyandi: what was Curtis like back then? 313 00:16:39,534 --> 00:16:42,024 I only know Curtis now, what was he like back then? 314 00:16:42,639 --> 00:16:47,169 Stuart Liddle: he was, he was just as funny and, and interesting as he is now. 315 00:16:47,859 --> 00:16:49,179 I'll I'll, I'll just go 316 00:16:49,179 --> 00:16:49,329 with 317 00:16:49,469 --> 00:16:52,794 W. Curtis Preston: I was I as devastatingly handsome as, as I am now, 318 00:16:53,589 --> 00:16:57,129 Stuart Liddle: Well, you know, I'm, I'm not the person who would be able 319 00:16:57,129 --> 00:17:00,399 to give a, a good, uh, assessment 320 00:17:00,474 --> 00:17:03,144 W. Curtis Preston: way, speaking of being devastatingly handsome, 321 00:17:03,144 --> 00:17:05,364 we are the bearded trio today. 322 00:17:06,084 --> 00:17:12,414 The bearded and headphones trio, two of us with gray beards one, 323 00:17:12,504 --> 00:17:14,274 not so much, although there's some 324 00:17:14,364 --> 00:17:14,694 Prasanna Malaiyandi: great. 325 00:17:16,119 --> 00:17:17,439 W. Curtis Preston: There's some gray in there. 326 00:17:18,689 --> 00:17:18,909 Um, 327 00:17:19,839 --> 00:17:23,649 Thinking about the I'm pretty sure it was the Seattle days. 328 00:17:24,759 --> 00:17:27,639 There was a boss and I think you and I have talked about this recently, 329 00:17:27,639 --> 00:17:30,279 but there was a boss that you had, and I'm pretty sure he was 330 00:17:30,279 --> 00:17:33,189 there and, or in Thousand Oaks. 331 00:17:33,189 --> 00:17:38,259 Darn if I can remember, but the name, the name, Scott rings a bell and he 332 00:17:38,259 --> 00:17:46,239 was the one that he wanted backup retention of two weeks and no more. 333 00:17:46,359 --> 00:17:47,529 Do you remember this? 334 00:17:48,039 --> 00:17:49,509 Stuart Liddle: I, I don't remember that. 335 00:17:49,509 --> 00:17:54,069 I know the guy you're talking about and actually he, he was one of the people 336 00:17:54,069 --> 00:17:58,269 who was involved in the transition from the company that I used to work 337 00:17:58,274 --> 00:18:02,049 for that got a, um, merged into Amgen. 338 00:18:02,499 --> 00:18:07,029 And he later became a director in Seattle and then went back to Thousand 339 00:18:07,029 --> 00:18:10,359 Oaks, um, you know, at a higher level. 340 00:18:11,304 --> 00:18:12,774 W. Curtis Preston: But you don't, you don't remember this 341 00:18:12,779 --> 00:18:14,334 thing about the two weeks? 342 00:18:14,709 --> 00:18:16,329 Stuart Liddle: I don't remember the two weeks. 343 00:18:16,389 --> 00:18:17,019 I don't remember the 344 00:18:17,064 --> 00:18:19,284 W. Curtis Preston: cuz I remember it very distinctly cuz it's the 345 00:18:19,289 --> 00:18:22,974 only time in my entire career when I had someone say something 346 00:18:22,974 --> 00:18:28,374 that to me sounded so ill advised 347 00:18:29,349 --> 00:18:29,919 Stuart Liddle: Yeah. 348 00:18:30,129 --> 00:18:30,279 Well, 349 00:18:30,339 --> 00:18:30,969 okay. 350 00:18:31,929 --> 00:18:38,979 Does, does that sound as ill advised as treating all backups equally? 351 00:18:41,394 --> 00:18:44,904 W. Curtis Preston: um, I I'm gonna say more ill advised, but I, I 352 00:18:44,904 --> 00:18:45,894 know what you're saying about. 353 00:18:45,894 --> 00:18:46,224 Yeah. 354 00:18:46,254 --> 00:18:48,414 So is that, was that something else that you ran into? 355 00:18:48,414 --> 00:18:48,474 Hmm. 356 00:18:49,059 --> 00:18:52,689 Stuart Liddle: Oh, I ran into that when I was consulting, I found a, you know, there 357 00:18:52,689 --> 00:18:59,329 was a big, um, oil and gas company in Texas that , that said dev test and prod. 358 00:18:59,349 --> 00:19:00,099 It doesn't matter. 359 00:19:00,104 --> 00:19:02,019 It all gets treated the same. 360 00:19:02,469 --> 00:19:04,419 And I'm like, you guys are insane. 361 00:19:04,719 --> 00:19:06,129 This is, this is 362 00:19:06,129 --> 00:19:06,609 crazy 363 00:19:06,609 --> 00:19:07,029 talk. 364 00:19:07,764 --> 00:19:08,304 Prasanna Malaiyandi: if I just 365 00:19:08,304 --> 00:19:08,544 have the, 366 00:19:08,544 --> 00:19:09,174 budgets. 367 00:19:10,749 --> 00:19:11,469 Stuart Liddle: yeah, 368 00:19:11,529 --> 00:19:14,709 W. Curtis Preston: I mean, as long, yeah, if you don't care about money, 369 00:19:14,799 --> 00:19:21,789 number one, and number two, if you basically, as long as you're not treating 370 00:19:21,789 --> 00:19:25,479 dev test and prod like dev, right. 371 00:19:25,479 --> 00:19:28,629 As long if you're treating dev test and prod like prod, 372 00:19:29,299 --> 00:19:29,719 Stuart Liddle: mm-hmm 373 00:19:30,009 --> 00:19:33,069 W. Curtis Preston: you know, and you have a solid plan and everything for 374 00:19:33,069 --> 00:19:39,999 everything, but I would still that even if you, even if you've got a system that's 375 00:19:39,999 --> 00:19:45,789 capable of backing up and restoring all of that, you at, you still need priorities 376 00:19:46,074 --> 00:19:46,794 Stuart Liddle: Yes. 377 00:19:46,929 --> 00:19:51,129 W. Curtis Preston: in, in a disaster recovery situation, you're not gonna 378 00:19:51,129 --> 00:19:53,949 recover dev and test before you recover 379 00:19:53,949 --> 00:19:54,619 prod. 380 00:19:54,864 --> 00:19:55,344 Stuart Liddle: Right. 381 00:19:55,344 --> 00:19:57,519 W. Curtis Preston: even prod, you're, you're not gonna recover 382 00:19:57,519 --> 00:19:59,169 all those systems at the same time. 383 00:19:59,379 --> 00:20:01,149 You should have segments, right. 384 00:20:01,899 --> 00:20:04,029 Um, Yeah, 385 00:20:04,224 --> 00:20:08,154 Stuart Liddle: Like, so, I mean, you know, another part of that is 386 00:20:08,154 --> 00:20:11,284 they didn't have a, uh, a CMDB, 387 00:20:13,089 --> 00:20:14,619 Prasanna Malaiyandi: So what's a CMDB for our listeners. 388 00:20:14,889 --> 00:20:14,949 Yeah. 389 00:20:15,414 --> 00:20:17,394 Stuart Liddle: Configuration management database. 390 00:20:17,424 --> 00:20:20,964 In other words, you got all your servers and all your applications 391 00:20:20,969 --> 00:20:24,084 in this database, and you say what they are, whether they're dev 392 00:20:24,089 --> 00:20:26,514 pros, prod, or test, and then you. 393 00:20:27,054 --> 00:20:31,404 You prioritize them like, like Curtis was saying, and you can, you can 394 00:20:31,404 --> 00:20:35,154 find them because you know, their location, you know, their name, you 395 00:20:35,154 --> 00:20:37,074 know what they do, all of that stuff. 396 00:20:37,704 --> 00:20:42,594 Um, you got serial numbers on all of the hardware, asset tags on all the hardware. 397 00:20:42,594 --> 00:20:44,184 They didn't, they didn't really have that. 398 00:20:44,189 --> 00:20:48,144 They had, they had it, but they didn't, it wasn't fully populated 399 00:20:48,144 --> 00:20:49,614 with all the stuff they really needed. 400 00:20:50,244 --> 00:20:50,634 So 401 00:20:51,489 --> 00:20:51,939 W. Curtis Preston: so, Hmm. 402 00:20:53,259 --> 00:20:56,979 I have another distinct memory from someone in 403 00:20:57,114 --> 00:20:57,534 Stuart Liddle: Oaks. 404 00:20:58,164 --> 00:20:58,464 Oh, 405 00:20:58,929 --> 00:21:02,379 W. Curtis Preston: No from someone in Seattle, again, I could be wrong, 406 00:21:02,379 --> 00:21:06,189 but my memory is that it was someone in Seattle talking about migration. 407 00:21:06,969 --> 00:21:09,099 You were migrating off of Netware. 408 00:21:10,639 --> 00:21:15,189 Um, and there was a guy that was a Netware lover. 409 00:21:16,269 --> 00:21:17,049 And I remember 410 00:21:17,244 --> 00:21:17,604 Stuart Liddle: about too. 411 00:21:18,429 --> 00:21:21,819 W. Curtis Preston: I remember him saying that it was job security, that 412 00:21:22,179 --> 00:21:25,419 he, he knew, he knew that it was way harder to use than everything else 413 00:21:25,929 --> 00:21:30,009 and that nobody else knew it, but him, but he didn't see a problem with that. 414 00:21:33,729 --> 00:21:36,769 Stuart Liddle: I know the guy you're talking about and he, he actually, 415 00:21:36,909 --> 00:21:41,109 uh, bought a place in Idaho when I was, you know, before I moved there. 416 00:21:41,559 --> 00:21:46,539 And, uh, yeah, we've, we've kept in touch, but yeah, I, I know his name. 417 00:21:46,719 --> 00:21:46,779 Yeah. 418 00:21:46,779 --> 00:21:46,899 Old 419 00:21:47,419 --> 00:21:51,639 W. Curtis Preston: but yeah, but we see that, we see that a lot in, in. 420 00:21:52,389 --> 00:21:53,409 Technology. 421 00:21:53,949 --> 00:21:59,799 We see it in backup systems where someone a, a new and interesting and possibly 422 00:21:59,979 --> 00:22:02,709 much better backup system comes along. 423 00:22:03,219 --> 00:22:05,799 But then you got the guy that knows NetBackup. 424 00:22:06,069 --> 00:22:08,049 And so he doesn't wanna let go. 425 00:22:08,049 --> 00:22:11,379 He's got all this, you know, knowledge of having run the, 426 00:22:11,519 --> 00:22:13,209 the backup system for so long. 427 00:22:13,869 --> 00:22:15,609 Um, yeah. 428 00:22:15,879 --> 00:22:18,339 Uh, wait, that guy was you I'm talking about you 429 00:22:20,754 --> 00:22:23,184 Prasanna Malaiyandi: but it doesn't even have to be just backup. 430 00:22:23,184 --> 00:22:24,024 So even 431 00:22:24,219 --> 00:22:24,819 W. Curtis Preston: no, no. 432 00:22:25,074 --> 00:22:26,484 Prasanna Malaiyandi: moving to like VMware, right. 433 00:22:26,489 --> 00:22:29,424 Virtualization and your server admins are like, what am I gonna do now? 434 00:22:30,114 --> 00:22:30,534 Stuart Liddle: Yeah. 435 00:22:36,444 --> 00:22:36,864 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Yep. 436 00:22:42,024 --> 00:22:43,974 Stuart Liddle: oh, oh, 437 00:22:44,304 --> 00:22:45,474 oh, that's right. 438 00:22:45,474 --> 00:22:47,794 So is, is it going to, 439 00:22:48,354 --> 00:22:49,044 W. Curtis Preston: It's happening. 440 00:22:49,104 --> 00:22:53,124 Stuart Liddle: it gonna be like Symantec and, and, uh, Veritas 441 00:22:53,274 --> 00:22:54,984 W. Curtis Preston: I sure as hell, hope not. 442 00:22:55,434 --> 00:23:01,224 Uh, cuz I re I remember, I remember going to Veritas Vision. 443 00:23:01,674 --> 00:23:08,034 Back when Veritas had a vision, they went to Veritas Vision, it 444 00:23:08,039 --> 00:23:09,774 was a year after the acquisition. 445 00:23:09,774 --> 00:23:14,154 And I remember saying it appears that you've spent an entire year 446 00:23:14,154 --> 00:23:16,044 painting everything yellow and black. 447 00:23:16,974 --> 00:23:17,364 Right. 448 00:23:17,364 --> 00:23:21,399 That's literally, that's literally all that they had done for the entire year. 449 00:23:21,399 --> 00:23:21,739 Stuart Liddle: Oh, probably 450 00:23:22,134 --> 00:23:25,554 W. Curtis Preston: And, and I, I, I don't think I was being unkind. 451 00:23:25,554 --> 00:23:29,964 It is just that, that, that did not go well, like, and you know, and 452 00:23:29,964 --> 00:23:32,754 they parted ways and now there's Veritas and now there's Symantec. 453 00:23:33,424 --> 00:23:35,504 I'll throw out our disclaimer Prasanna. 454 00:23:35,524 --> 00:23:36,724 And I work for different companies. 455 00:23:36,864 --> 00:23:37,724 Prasanna work for zoom. 456 00:23:37,744 --> 00:23:41,884 I work for Druva, and this is not a podcast of either company. 457 00:23:41,884 --> 00:23:48,124 The things that you hear on here are our opinions, nothing more, and, uh, be sure 458 00:23:48,124 --> 00:23:51,044 to rate us ratethispodcast.com/restore. 459 00:23:51,544 --> 00:23:56,614 And also, you know, if you like to talk about backup, restore, archive, 460 00:23:56,964 --> 00:24:01,234 security protection, privacy, cetera, we'd love to have you on just, uh, 461 00:24:01,264 --> 00:24:07,444 contact me at wcurtispreston@gmail or @wcpreston on Twitter. 462 00:24:07,684 --> 00:24:08,524 You can DM me. 463 00:24:08,524 --> 00:24:11,884 I accept all DMS and, uh, we can chat. 464 00:24:12,694 --> 00:24:16,264 Let's talk about some other interesting things that you remember over the 465 00:24:16,264 --> 00:24:21,064 years in terms of adapting to new, you know, new ways of doing backups or, you 466 00:24:21,064 --> 00:24:26,524 know, cuz you've, cuz you've seen and in 20 years you've seen the move from 467 00:24:26,524 --> 00:24:31,534 tape to, well from, from, from punch card to tape, from disk from disk to 468 00:24:31,539 --> 00:24:33,944 cloud, you know, what was that like? 469 00:24:34,784 --> 00:24:38,254 Stuart Liddle: Um, you know, it's interesting when I was, let's 470 00:24:38,259 --> 00:24:40,054 just take Amgen as an example. 471 00:24:41,074 --> 00:24:46,564 When I first got there, everything was going to DLT and we were using, 472 00:24:46,654 --> 00:24:52,204 um, a certain offsite storage vendor to, you know, pick up the things 473 00:24:52,204 --> 00:24:54,004 and take 'em off to some other site. 474 00:24:54,574 --> 00:25:01,714 Um, and then it went to, um, uh, so that was physical tape. 475 00:25:01,714 --> 00:25:03,124 And then we went to virtual tape. 476 00:25:04,684 --> 00:25:05,344 W. Curtis Preston: Oh, yeah. 477 00:25:05,524 --> 00:25:06,094 Okay. 478 00:25:06,154 --> 00:25:06,604 Hang on. 479 00:25:07,324 --> 00:25:12,094 So DLT for the, for those of you that, that haven't been around, 480 00:25:12,244 --> 00:25:14,434 that was digital linear tape. 481 00:25:14,824 --> 00:25:17,434 That was the predecessor to LTO. 482 00:25:17,434 --> 00:25:19,894 So it was a, it was a linear tape. 483 00:25:19,894 --> 00:25:22,864 The way LTO is as opposed to heli scan tape, which is a 484 00:25:22,954 --> 00:25:24,034 completely different thing. 485 00:25:24,574 --> 00:25:29,644 Did you ever use any helical stuff like D DDS or eight millimeter, uh, or AIT? 486 00:25:30,814 --> 00:25:34,774 Stuart Liddle: we, we did have some, and, and at the same time 487 00:25:34,774 --> 00:25:37,684 we transitioned off of DLT to LTO. 488 00:25:37,684 --> 00:25:39,874 We transitioned off of those as well. 489 00:25:40,339 --> 00:25:40,849 W. Curtis Preston: Gotcha. 490 00:25:41,389 --> 00:25:42,139 Stuart Liddle: We did have AIT. 491 00:25:43,909 --> 00:25:44,209 Yeah. 492 00:25:45,139 --> 00:25:46,489 So we transitioned to that. 493 00:25:46,489 --> 00:25:50,419 And then we also had gotten into virtual tape libraries and 494 00:25:51,019 --> 00:25:51,469 W. Curtis Preston: which 495 00:25:51,474 --> 00:25:52,399 Stuart Liddle: big vendors. 496 00:25:52,849 --> 00:25:57,049 W. Curtis Preston: if you're new to this world, somebody's listening to this going. 497 00:25:57,109 --> 00:25:57,619 I'm sorry, 498 00:25:57,619 --> 00:26:02,509 what what is a, what is a virtual tape library? 499 00:26:03,879 --> 00:26:04,969 Stuart Stuart. 500 00:26:05,419 --> 00:26:10,249 Stuart Liddle: it's a disc based system that emulates writing to tape and it 501 00:26:10,399 --> 00:26:13,369 W. Curtis Preston: And And why in hell would somebody do that? 502 00:26:14,939 --> 00:26:20,569 Stuart Liddle: supposedly it was faster and easier to work with, but 503 00:26:21,109 --> 00:26:25,369 W. Curtis Preston: but but why would a disc that I get, why you'd use disc? 504 00:26:25,429 --> 00:26:27,519 Why would a disc pretend to be tape? 505 00:26:30,129 --> 00:26:33,909 Stuart Liddle: Because the backup software primarily dealt with tape 506 00:26:33,909 --> 00:26:35,334 and didn't know about writing to disk 507 00:26:35,334 --> 00:26:40,044 W. Curtis Preston: Yeah, it was a, it was a bandaid situation. 508 00:26:40,374 --> 00:26:40,884 Right. 509 00:26:41,364 --> 00:26:47,904 And I remember many years ago, several years ago, I was sitting, 510 00:26:48,414 --> 00:26:51,634 sitting, chatting with a gentleman by the name of Mark Staimer. 511 00:26:52,344 --> 00:26:55,284 And I'll have to, I'll have, now I'll have to tweet to him about this 512 00:26:55,284 --> 00:27:00,684 episode, but Mark Staimer and I made a bet one year, and this was when I 513 00:27:00,684 --> 00:27:02,454 was a big fan of VTLs at the time. 514 00:27:02,724 --> 00:27:07,854 And he's like in five years, Nobody's gonna be buying VTLs like it was something 515 00:27:07,914 --> 00:27:12,474 he's like, there's gonna be fewer VTLs sold than, than the alternative. 516 00:27:12,474 --> 00:27:19,374 And I was like, I bet you, you know, we, I, as I recall, I, I, I owe him dinner. 517 00:27:19,494 --> 00:27:24,624 He is the thing was that basically it was a time when backup products 518 00:27:24,624 --> 00:27:28,704 really didn't know how to handle writing to disk very well. 519 00:27:29,944 --> 00:27:35,304 And so we needed to, and I, and I can think of one big backup. 520 00:27:36,144 --> 00:27:41,094 I'm gonna call it protocol that really didn't know how to write to tape. 521 00:27:41,099 --> 00:27:43,494 And it's one, I'm sorry that didn't know how to write to disk. 522 00:27:43,584 --> 00:27:46,884 And it's one that you would've, you would've been exposed to there at 523 00:27:46,884 --> 00:27:48,774 Amgen, cuz I remember helping with it. 524 00:27:49,254 --> 00:27:50,124 Do you remember it? 525 00:27:50,784 --> 00:27:51,264 Stuart Liddle: Tar 526 00:27:52,624 --> 00:27:52,844 W. Curtis Preston: No, 527 00:27:54,174 --> 00:27:54,804 Stuart Liddle: no, that's right. 528 00:27:54,804 --> 00:27:55,314 You can write the 529 00:27:55,554 --> 00:27:56,604 W. Curtis Preston: I'll give you a hint. 530 00:27:57,234 --> 00:28:01,434 Uh, the thing that used it rhymes with uh, Schmett app. 531 00:28:06,124 --> 00:28:06,414 Stuart Liddle: okay. 532 00:28:06,954 --> 00:28:07,344 Yeah. 533 00:28:08,334 --> 00:28:09,054 W. Curtis Preston: Do you remember? 534 00:28:09,384 --> 00:28:10,044 Do you remember? 535 00:28:10,044 --> 00:28:11,184 the way you backed up? 536 00:28:12,384 --> 00:28:13,044 What was that? 537 00:28:13,704 --> 00:28:14,784 Stuart Liddle: Oh, geez. 538 00:28:15,834 --> 00:28:16,164 Now. 539 00:28:16,944 --> 00:28:17,364 Yeah. 540 00:28:17,364 --> 00:28:17,664 Okay. 541 00:28:17,664 --> 00:28:18,294 Yeah, there you go. 542 00:28:18,299 --> 00:28:18,804 There you go. 543 00:28:18,864 --> 00:28:19,284 That's right. 544 00:28:19,284 --> 00:28:21,594 NDMP didn't know how to do anything else, but 545 00:28:21,594 --> 00:28:21,744 that yeah. 546 00:28:22,884 --> 00:28:23,364 W. Curtis Preston: right. 547 00:28:23,709 --> 00:28:25,089 Prasanna Malaiyandi: the only way to get data off your net app. 548 00:28:25,089 --> 00:28:25,269 Yep. 549 00:28:26,514 --> 00:28:26,784 Stuart Liddle: Yep. 550 00:28:26,784 --> 00:28:26,844 yeah. 551 00:28:27,774 --> 00:28:32,994 W. Curtis Preston: And so, and so disc pretended to be tape and I, I 552 00:28:32,994 --> 00:28:37,404 think, I think they still sell that stuff, but I don't, I mean, I know 553 00:28:37,409 --> 00:28:43,244 that quantum does, I know that, um, and does data domain still do, 554 00:28:43,244 --> 00:28:44,919 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Data Domain still supports VTL. 555 00:28:44,919 --> 00:28:45,219 Yep. 556 00:28:47,274 --> 00:28:49,404 W. Curtis Preston: for all three of its customers, that uses it. 557 00:28:50,289 --> 00:28:55,629 Prasanna Malaiyandi: no, I, so when I, so I used to be at EMC 558 00:28:55,629 --> 00:28:59,109 at the time, right after the data domain acquisition, I joined EMC. 559 00:28:59,379 --> 00:29:02,829 And I remember hearing stories though that the big selling point for data 560 00:29:02,829 --> 00:29:06,279 domain initially, like you're saying, it's you go into those accounts with 561 00:29:06,699 --> 00:29:10,449 tape customers and be like, Hey, here's a very simple, de-duplicate 562 00:29:10,659 --> 00:29:12,489 applying deduplication appliance. 563 00:29:12,759 --> 00:29:15,999 You just swap out your tape drives or tape library with this. 564 00:29:16,059 --> 00:29:18,549 And you're all good to go and look at these amazing cost 565 00:29:18,549 --> 00:29:20,609 savings that you get all the 566 00:29:20,739 --> 00:29:22,039 deduplication. 567 00:29:23,709 --> 00:29:25,599 W. Curtis Preston: So that, that was the next phase, right. 568 00:29:25,599 --> 00:29:25,989 Was, 569 00:29:26,139 --> 00:29:26,589 Stuart Liddle: Yeah. 570 00:29:27,369 --> 00:29:27,699 W. Curtis Preston: was 571 00:29:27,699 --> 00:29:29,469 Stuart Liddle: Going to yeah. 572 00:29:29,559 --> 00:29:29,919 And, 573 00:29:30,159 --> 00:29:30,309 W. Curtis Preston: And 574 00:29:30,309 --> 00:29:32,319 you, you used a lot of that stuff back in the 575 00:29:32,409 --> 00:29:34,689 Stuart Liddle: oh yeah, we used a lot of that stuff. 576 00:29:34,689 --> 00:29:41,079 We went from, we went to data domain and uh, then we ended up with 577 00:29:41,379 --> 00:29:45,669 strictly, uh, NetBackup appliances, so 578 00:29:45,819 --> 00:29:49,509 W. Curtis Preston: with, with NetBackup, dedupe integrated into it. 579 00:29:49,929 --> 00:29:50,529 Stuart Liddle: yeah. 580 00:29:50,619 --> 00:29:51,039 Yeah. 581 00:29:51,249 --> 00:29:54,069 And then replicating to a remote site using that. 582 00:29:55,119 --> 00:29:56,259 W. Curtis Preston: Right, right 583 00:29:56,349 --> 00:29:56,979 Stuart Liddle: So it. 584 00:29:56,979 --> 00:30:01,989 it it basically eliminated the need for sending stuff off 585 00:30:01,989 --> 00:30:03,939 site to, you know, with tape 586 00:30:04,704 --> 00:30:10,734 W. Curtis Preston: So you actually lived what, what, I'm gonna call backup Nirvana. 587 00:30:11,484 --> 00:30:11,994 Right? 588 00:30:12,054 --> 00:30:15,234 Because we talked about this a lot, but I, but I very rarely 589 00:30:15,234 --> 00:30:17,334 met people that actually did it. 590 00:30:17,334 --> 00:30:22,974 And that was that they went tapeless with a de-duplicated replicated system. 591 00:30:22,974 --> 00:30:27,024 You had the onsite back and the offsite back and nobody touched a tape and 592 00:30:27,024 --> 00:30:29,094 no, man, there was no man in a van. 593 00:30:29,409 --> 00:30:35,619 Stuart Liddle: But that was only good at certain sites that would've allowed 594 00:30:35,619 --> 00:30:42,969 it due to bandwidth issues or, um, you know, in certain, uh, European states 595 00:30:42,969 --> 00:30:45,279 that wouldn't necessarily allow it. 596 00:30:46,464 --> 00:30:48,264 W. Curtis Preston: What, and what was the challenge there? 597 00:30:49,059 --> 00:30:54,789 Stuart Liddle: Um, I, I believe there was like, um, in Europe and in the EU, 598 00:30:54,794 --> 00:31:01,599 they have certain data, uh, privacy laws that don't allow you to move 599 00:31:01,599 --> 00:31:03,789 things over across borders or something 600 00:31:03,894 --> 00:31:04,404 W. Curtis Preston: Oh, okay. 601 00:31:04,404 --> 00:31:07,524 Well, I, I would just assume that you would do it within the border, 602 00:31:07,529 --> 00:31:08,994 but yeah, that, that's definitely a 603 00:31:09,129 --> 00:31:13,104 Stuart Liddle: Well, If you like Switzerland, not part of the EU and has 604 00:31:13,104 --> 00:31:14,724 their own set of laws on that stuff. 605 00:31:14,724 --> 00:31:17,124 I think they're, they're one of the ones that we couldn't really do 606 00:31:17,124 --> 00:31:20,634 it to, unless we had two sites in Switzerland, which I don't think we did. 607 00:31:20,634 --> 00:31:21,294 We only had one. 608 00:31:22,134 --> 00:31:23,184 So, but 609 00:31:23,304 --> 00:31:23,994 inside 610 00:31:23,994 --> 00:31:25,554 W. Curtis Preston: might be joining NATO though. 611 00:31:26,394 --> 00:31:27,204 Stuart Liddle: there you go. 612 00:31:30,984 --> 00:31:32,514 W. Curtis Preston: I think there's a good shot there. 613 00:31:33,054 --> 00:31:34,854 Um, okay. 614 00:31:34,854 --> 00:31:35,304 So yeah. 615 00:31:35,304 --> 00:31:40,254 So if the laws allowed it, uh, and things like that, then you would do that. 616 00:31:40,954 --> 00:31:41,374 Stuart Liddle: Mm-hmm 617 00:31:42,354 --> 00:31:48,774 W. Curtis Preston: um, and what, how much better was that from 618 00:31:48,774 --> 00:31:50,784 comparing it to the tape world? 619 00:31:51,339 --> 00:31:54,669 To what you, what you had before, you know, so you had the tape world, you 620 00:31:54,669 --> 00:31:56,619 had the tape plus data domain world. 621 00:31:56,949 --> 00:31:58,569 And then you went with this appliance world. 622 00:31:58,569 --> 00:32:00,579 How much better or, or was it better? 623 00:32:00,579 --> 00:32:01,029 Was it 624 00:32:01,629 --> 00:32:01,809 more 625 00:32:01,899 --> 00:32:02,199 Stuart Liddle: Yeah. 626 00:32:02,199 --> 00:32:04,119 Huge, huge amount better. 627 00:32:04,209 --> 00:32:09,339 Um, the, the big problem with doing restores of, of files of course, 628 00:32:09,344 --> 00:32:11,619 is bandwidth across the wan. 629 00:32:12,399 --> 00:32:14,679 How long is it gonna take to restore a big file? 630 00:32:14,679 --> 00:32:15,429 That kind of thing. 631 00:32:15,429 --> 00:32:20,859 But I think it's still worked out to be better than say, and, and 632 00:32:20,864 --> 00:32:22,539 we always did have the option. 633 00:32:22,719 --> 00:32:27,279 Here's the option of at the remote site, if that's the only copy of the data, 634 00:32:27,279 --> 00:32:31,569 copying it to tape and shipping the tape to the, to the site where you really 635 00:32:31,569 --> 00:32:37,209 needed to restore it, you know, that that cuz never underestimate the, uh, the 636 00:32:37,209 --> 00:32:40,569 bandwidth of a 747 full of DLTs or LTOs. 637 00:32:40,629 --> 00:32:41,199 W. Curtis Preston: That's right. 638 00:32:41,709 --> 00:32:42,399 That's right. 639 00:32:43,089 --> 00:32:47,559 Never underestimate the B bandwidth of a truck is my usual thing, but yeah. 640 00:32:47,619 --> 00:32:49,059 But yeah, plane full of 641 00:32:50,249 --> 00:32:52,509 LTOs is pretty huge. 642 00:32:52,959 --> 00:32:53,349 Stuart Liddle: Yeah. 643 00:32:54,039 --> 00:32:54,399 Yeah. 644 00:32:54,489 --> 00:32:56,859 Prasanna Malaiyandi: was there something you found though that 645 00:32:56,859 --> 00:33:00,849 was lacking with this new solution versus what you had before? 646 00:33:01,059 --> 00:33:04,389 Cause I think everyone understands the pros of going, what sort 647 00:33:04,394 --> 00:33:08,889 of a backup appliance based approach versus older tape style. 648 00:33:08,889 --> 00:33:13,059 But was there something that you found was lacking with this approach 649 00:33:13,269 --> 00:33:14,649 or that you wish it could do that? 650 00:33:15,519 --> 00:33:18,669 Stuart Liddle: um, I, I think the only thing I wish I could do is 651 00:33:18,669 --> 00:33:25,429 to, to, to be able to be more of, um, quick restore across the WAN 652 00:33:25,779 --> 00:33:27,549 is, is probably the biggest thing. 653 00:33:28,329 --> 00:33:32,949 But for the most part, yeah, it's, it was pretty nice having that because you didn't 654 00:33:32,954 --> 00:33:38,409 have to deal with somebody constantly saying, well, I, I forgot I couldn't get 655 00:33:38,409 --> 00:33:40,719 into the office because of the snowstorm. 656 00:33:40,719 --> 00:33:44,829 So I couldn't get the tapes offsite, and then you have a disaster, right. 657 00:33:46,179 --> 00:33:46,479 Just 658 00:33:46,479 --> 00:33:47,629 don't have to worry about that. 659 00:33:48,039 --> 00:33:51,819 W. Curtis Preston: you were able to have different retention on your primary 660 00:33:51,824 --> 00:33:54,939 and then your secondary, cuz you, you mentioned that there would be backups. 661 00:33:54,939 --> 00:33:59,379 It would only be at that secondary cuz you could solve the problem by having 662 00:33:59,439 --> 00:34:01,419 the same size systems on both sides. 663 00:34:01,424 --> 00:34:01,719 Right? 664 00:34:01,719 --> 00:34:01,899 Cause 665 00:34:01,899 --> 00:34:07,509 then if you're doing a restore from the, the place where you're backing 666 00:34:07,509 --> 00:34:09,099 up, you would restore from the, 667 00:34:09,414 --> 00:34:09,774 Stuart Liddle: Yeah. 668 00:34:09,834 --> 00:34:10,164 You could 669 00:34:10,284 --> 00:34:10,974 restore from the 670 00:34:10,989 --> 00:34:11,529 W. Curtis Preston: server. 671 00:34:11,859 --> 00:34:13,779 But that, but that's a lot more expensive. 672 00:34:14,454 --> 00:34:19,164 Stuart Liddle: If yeah, but, but if, yes, I, um, but I don't think there 673 00:34:19,169 --> 00:34:21,294 was different retentions on that. 674 00:34:21,294 --> 00:34:25,884 It was the same retention and we, if we needed to back it restore 675 00:34:25,884 --> 00:34:28,824 something quickly, we could do it from the local copy rather than 676 00:34:28,824 --> 00:34:30,834 the remotely replicated copy. 677 00:34:31,629 --> 00:34:33,219 W. Curtis Preston: Why would you ever restore it from the 678 00:34:33,219 --> 00:34:35,049 remotely replicated copy. 679 00:34:35,214 --> 00:34:39,864 Stuart Liddle: If you had a problem with your, you know, primary site 680 00:34:39,894 --> 00:34:44,724 going down and, uh, you know, the backup system being compromised 681 00:34:44,724 --> 00:34:46,774 somehow, then you would want do that.. 682 00:34:48,274 --> 00:34:48,654 W. Curtis Preston: Okay. 683 00:34:48,964 --> 00:34:50,199 Stuart Liddle: See, this is a test. 684 00:34:50,199 --> 00:34:50,679 I know 685 00:34:53,589 --> 00:34:54,399 W. Curtis Preston: no, not a test. 686 00:34:55,179 --> 00:35:01,959 It's just, I didn't, uh, um, I didn't, um, I wasn't there, man. 687 00:35:01,959 --> 00:35:02,289 Isn't dare man. 688 00:35:02,499 --> 00:35:02,889 Stuart Liddle: okay. 689 00:35:02,889 --> 00:35:02,979 Oh, you, 690 00:35:03,399 --> 00:35:07,059 W. Curtis Preston: Um, and I didn't ever have to administer those 691 00:35:07,089 --> 00:35:10,239 NetBackup appliances in production, 692 00:35:10,419 --> 00:35:13,479 Prasanna Malaiyandi: so we talked about now you went from tape to 693 00:35:13,479 --> 00:35:16,689 sort of VTL to backup appliances. 694 00:35:17,199 --> 00:35:21,519 Did you ever have to worry about, like, what do you do with applications 695 00:35:21,519 --> 00:35:25,329 that are moving to the cloud while you were there at Amgen? 696 00:35:25,914 --> 00:35:27,234 Stuart Liddle: Yeah, I did. 697 00:35:27,234 --> 00:35:31,674 And unfortunately I was not one of the main people that got into that. 698 00:35:31,674 --> 00:35:37,854 So I, my experience with the cloud based stuff is not as extensive as some of 699 00:35:37,854 --> 00:35:39,324 the other people that I worked with. 700 00:35:39,984 --> 00:35:42,624 So, um, yes, we did that. 701 00:35:42,624 --> 00:35:46,464 And, and in fact, there's a lot of applications that ended up at, 702 00:35:46,464 --> 00:35:53,574 uh, AWS and, you know, things like in fact, um, one of my coworkers 703 00:35:53,574 --> 00:35:54,744 ended up going to work there. 704 00:35:54,744 --> 00:35:54,804 So. 705 00:35:56,349 --> 00:35:56,409 Um, 706 00:35:56,814 --> 00:35:56,934 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Gotcha. 707 00:35:58,494 --> 00:36:01,704 W. Curtis Preston: And, and what was the, what was the general feeling of that? 708 00:36:01,709 --> 00:36:05,244 Was it, was it because you might have been in some of those, was it like 709 00:36:05,249 --> 00:36:08,154 saying, Hey, well, we definitely, well, we definitely gotta back that stuff 710 00:36:08,154 --> 00:36:12,654 up or, or was there a feeling of like, well, it's the cloud, so we're good. 711 00:36:14,379 --> 00:36:14,829 Stuart Liddle: no. 712 00:36:14,829 --> 00:36:21,219 I think the, um, the feeling was that that people thought that, that it was a 713 00:36:21,219 --> 00:36:28,059 good thing to use and they didn't really take into account the full expense of 714 00:36:28,059 --> 00:36:31,119 that when they were talking about it, they were just looking at it from the 715 00:36:31,659 --> 00:36:37,209 standpoint of, Hey, we can reduce our data center footprint if we put the 716 00:36:37,209 --> 00:36:43,329 stuff to the cloud and virtualize it and not necessarily realizing that in 717 00:36:43,329 --> 00:36:48,279 some cases you're gonna be spending as much if not more on stuff like that. 718 00:36:48,279 --> 00:36:48,639 So, 719 00:36:48,714 --> 00:36:50,754 W. Curtis Preston: Yeah, subscription based pricing for 720 00:36:50,754 --> 00:36:52,704 hardware is essentially what that is 721 00:36:53,184 --> 00:36:53,304 the 722 00:36:53,594 --> 00:36:53,819 Stuart Liddle: exactly. 723 00:36:56,904 --> 00:36:58,974 Prasanna Malaiyandi: So going back to an earlier conversation we had in the 724 00:36:58,979 --> 00:37:07,164 podcast where the, uh, person was afraid of their job getting sort of obsolete. 725 00:37:07,434 --> 00:37:11,094 Were you afraid of that when they were starting to move to the cloud? 726 00:37:11,094 --> 00:37:13,224 And were you thinking, oh man, is this going to mean I'm 727 00:37:13,224 --> 00:37:14,424 out of a business or out of a 728 00:37:14,574 --> 00:37:16,944 Stuart Liddle: no, no, not at all. 729 00:37:16,944 --> 00:37:20,404 And I think it primarily was because of the fact that there was still 730 00:37:21,204 --> 00:37:28,464 applications that they wanted to keep in house on prem and, uh, they didn't 731 00:37:28,464 --> 00:37:31,824 want to, uh, put that out to the cloud. 732 00:37:32,214 --> 00:37:34,404 So no, there was still that. 733 00:37:34,854 --> 00:37:39,384 And then there's also, again, that, that cost factor, I think, because 734 00:37:39,564 --> 00:37:45,054 if, if we got involved with it properly, we could point out that, 735 00:37:45,054 --> 00:37:51,924 Hey, this is still cheaper, you know, but, but I think that's changing. 736 00:37:52,224 --> 00:37:52,764 I haven't. 737 00:37:53,184 --> 00:37:54,924 I haven't been involved so much with it recently. 738 00:37:54,924 --> 00:37:56,604 You guys probably know more about that, 739 00:37:57,594 --> 00:37:58,704 W. Curtis Preston: At what's changing. 740 00:37:59,334 --> 00:38:05,874 Stuart Liddle: um, the, the pricing for, for virtualization and cloud based stuff, 741 00:38:07,704 --> 00:38:08,574 W. Curtis Preston: I, I don't know. 742 00:38:10,929 --> 00:38:13,629 Prasanna Malaiyandi: I would say you now have more options. 743 00:38:13,899 --> 00:38:16,299 Like you can pick cheaper tiers of storage. 744 00:38:16,994 --> 00:38:17,414 Stuart Liddle: mm-hmm 745 00:38:17,469 --> 00:38:20,229 Prasanna Malaiyandi: you can try to optimize and spin down, like 746 00:38:20,349 --> 00:38:24,309 instances when they're not in use or allow them to be preempted. 747 00:38:25,089 --> 00:38:28,869 There is Lambda functions, which means you don't necessarily run a server. 748 00:38:28,869 --> 00:38:31,449 You're just running code when it needs to run. 749 00:38:31,629 --> 00:38:33,309 So they've given you more options. 750 00:38:33,429 --> 00:38:35,349 I don't necessarily know if it's cheaper. 751 00:38:36,369 --> 00:38:36,789 right. 752 00:38:36,879 --> 00:38:37,539 But it's 753 00:38:37,629 --> 00:38:40,869 now up to the developer to optimize for those costs. 754 00:38:41,704 --> 00:38:41,898 W. Curtis Preston: you think Prasanna? 755 00:38:41,898 --> 00:38:42,084 Well, it, yeah, I. 756 00:38:42,819 --> 00:38:44,259 I think it is cheaper. 757 00:38:44,319 --> 00:38:48,939 If you use the cloud, the way cloud can be used. 758 00:38:48,939 --> 00:38:52,449 Like you can't do it, you can't do a Lambda function in a data center. 759 00:38:52,549 --> 00:38:54,719 The concept of running a Lambda function. 760 00:38:55,969 --> 00:38:59,554 is that you, you get to do this for next to nothing. 761 00:39:00,004 --> 00:39:03,814 And if it's something that you do infrequently, or there, there, there is 762 00:39:03,814 --> 00:39:07,804 a crossover point, right, where you're paying by the Lambda function, but it's 763 00:39:07,804 --> 00:39:16,534 super, super cheap, but at some point you cross a boundary and now, well, this 764 00:39:16,534 --> 00:39:21,424 would be cheaper if I would just rent a VM for a certain number of hours per day. 765 00:39:21,874 --> 00:39:27,154 Um, and so I, I think that the, the people that continue to struggle with 766 00:39:27,154 --> 00:39:33,694 cloud costs are people that don't, they, they don't treat the cloud like that. 767 00:39:33,724 --> 00:39:36,964 They, they just, they just treat the cloud as another data center. 768 00:39:37,714 --> 00:39:41,404 And so they, they say, well, we have a thousand VMs over here. 769 00:39:41,494 --> 00:39:42,844 We got a thousand VMs over there. 770 00:39:42,844 --> 00:39:45,154 We got 20 terabytes of storage over here. 771 00:39:45,244 --> 00:39:49,714 We got 20 terabytes of storage over there, and that is the guaranteed 772 00:39:49,714 --> 00:39:51,454 way to have your costs skyrocket. 773 00:39:52,369 --> 00:39:54,649 Doesn't matter what the cloud vendor is. 774 00:39:54,649 --> 00:39:58,399 If you're renting your hardware, cuz that's what you're doing, right. 775 00:39:58,429 --> 00:40:00,109 You're renting your hardware. 776 00:40:00,409 --> 00:40:07,039 And, and I know I make this analogy a lot, but it's like going from owning a car and 777 00:40:07,039 --> 00:40:10,489 you go, gee, I don't want, I don't want the troubles of owning a car anymore. 778 00:40:10,939 --> 00:40:15,679 So I'm going to rent a car from Avis all the time. 779 00:40:17,869 --> 00:40:18,319 right. 780 00:40:18,809 --> 00:40:21,499 I, I, I don't want to do, I don't wanna do oil changes. 781 00:40:21,499 --> 00:40:23,149 I want that to be Avis' problem. 782 00:40:23,389 --> 00:40:28,609 So I'm gonna rent a car from Avis 24 7 and have it sitting in my driveway. 783 00:40:30,649 --> 00:40:36,229 But I'm gonna, but, but renting a car is an incredibly expensive way to have a car. 784 00:40:36,679 --> 00:40:42,409 It's great if you need it for a day or even a week, or you need a car where 785 00:40:42,409 --> 00:40:46,549 you happen to be, which isn't where you live, that's what Avis is for. 786 00:40:46,554 --> 00:40:48,469 And that's the way the cloud should be. 787 00:40:48,949 --> 00:40:50,749 You should buy little pieces. 788 00:40:51,709 --> 00:40:58,669 And if what you're doing is just running a, a server 24 by seven, then it's going 789 00:40:58,669 --> 00:41:02,299 to be more expensive than having that same exact server sitting in your site. 790 00:41:03,269 --> 00:41:06,559 Um, but I'm sorry, I jumped up on a soapbox there, 791 00:41:06,619 --> 00:41:06,919 but 792 00:41:07,039 --> 00:41:09,169 Prasanna Malaiyandi: take your analogy one step further and say 793 00:41:09,169 --> 00:41:11,959 that Lambda is the equivalent of Uber. 794 00:41:12,409 --> 00:41:13,039 In your example. 795 00:41:14,059 --> 00:41:14,629 W. Curtis Preston: Agreed. 796 00:41:14,689 --> 00:41:19,099 Lambda is the equivalent of Uber and Uber is a great cheap way to 797 00:41:19,099 --> 00:41:22,069 do, to do certain things, right. 798 00:41:22,189 --> 00:41:26,104 But if you take Uber all day, Is it gonna be even more 799 00:41:26,104 --> 00:41:27,544 expensive than renting that car? 800 00:41:27,874 --> 00:41:28,324 Right? 801 00:41:28,534 --> 00:41:32,284 Shoot, actually, you don't even have to take Uber that much. 802 00:41:34,594 --> 00:41:38,404 you know, you could take, take, take couple Ubers a day and you're gonna 803 00:41:38,434 --> 00:41:41,044 start to be wondering, you know, if you should have a rental car, 804 00:41:41,614 --> 00:41:44,494 uh, is just, you know, again, this is where the analogy falls apart. 805 00:41:44,494 --> 00:41:47,944 The only advantage of the Uber in that scenario is you can get 806 00:41:47,944 --> 00:41:52,164 drunk and not worry about it, but I don't think the Lambda function, 807 00:41:52,534 --> 00:41:54,634 you know, is gonna help with that. 808 00:41:55,834 --> 00:41:57,604 Um, so, okay. 809 00:41:57,754 --> 00:42:04,024 Um, Stuart, is there anything that you, you know, like if you had had 810 00:42:04,024 --> 00:42:07,744 your druthers, if you could have waved a magic wand, is there anything that 811 00:42:07,744 --> 00:42:13,504 you would've wanted to have, you know, from a backup and recovery perspective 812 00:42:13,504 --> 00:42:17,314 that, that you didn't get when you were doing things back in the day? 813 00:42:18,544 --> 00:42:19,354 Stuart Liddle: oh, geez. 814 00:42:20,044 --> 00:42:23,554 What was you mean beyond the Nirvana of site to site 815 00:42:23,809 --> 00:42:24,289 W. Curtis Preston: Yes. 816 00:42:24,289 --> 00:42:26,989 Beyond the Nirvana of site to site replication. 817 00:42:27,754 --> 00:42:30,214 Stuart Liddle: Uh, wow. 818 00:42:30,454 --> 00:42:31,684 Oh, well, okay. 819 00:42:31,804 --> 00:42:39,364 Um, full automation of the, uh, the process of, of upgrading. 820 00:42:39,544 --> 00:42:42,694 I mean, upgrading from one version to of. 821 00:42:43,504 --> 00:42:49,504 NetBackup to another, or, you know, having clients updated when you have to deal 822 00:42:49,504 --> 00:42:58,324 with different, um, uh, support groups, you know, like windows and Unix and 823 00:42:58,324 --> 00:43:05,284 VMware, you know, by, by, by, by telling you know, somebody, Hey, you best have 824 00:43:05,284 --> 00:43:11,854 your systems all on the latest version of NetBackup or you're gonna have problems. 825 00:43:12,124 --> 00:43:15,274 And they look at you and say, oh, you know, that's a project, so we're gonna 826 00:43:15,279 --> 00:43:16,714 have to take some time with that. 827 00:43:16,714 --> 00:43:21,574 And then just like throw up your hands and yeah, I wish I could 828 00:43:21,574 --> 00:43:22,954 have had that kind of thing. 829 00:43:23,614 --> 00:43:24,604 That would've been great. 830 00:43:25,729 --> 00:43:26,059 W. Curtis Preston: Yeah. 831 00:43:26,059 --> 00:43:29,809 And, and that is a real challenge for, because no one wants to 832 00:43:29,814 --> 00:43:31,369 upgrade their backup server. 833 00:43:31,639 --> 00:43:32,059 Right. 834 00:43:32,539 --> 00:43:36,769 And, and your clients, they don't wanna upgrade their, their backup client because 835 00:43:36,769 --> 00:43:39,919 it's just, it's just, they don't, they don't really get any benefit out of it. 836 00:43:39,919 --> 00:43:40,279 Right. 837 00:43:40,549 --> 00:43:43,309 Stuart Liddle: well, they don't get any perceived benefit out 838 00:43:43,309 --> 00:43:43,579 of it, 839 00:43:43,789 --> 00:43:44,539 W. Curtis Preston: benefit out of it, 840 00:43:44,809 --> 00:43:45,229 Stuart Liddle: right? 841 00:43:45,439 --> 00:43:47,479 Until something breaks. 842 00:43:49,009 --> 00:43:49,909 Prasanna Malaiyandi: then they're like, why didn't you 843 00:43:51,709 --> 00:43:52,189 W. Curtis Preston: So that, 844 00:43:52,219 --> 00:43:53,869 Stuart Liddle: how come you didn't know about this? 845 00:43:54,379 --> 00:43:56,419 W. Curtis Preston: solving all the tape problem and everything that this 846 00:43:56,419 --> 00:43:59,959 was what you were left with, was that maintenance, that ongoing maintenance. 847 00:44:00,049 --> 00:44:02,059 Stuart Liddle: That ongoing maintenance and, and upgrading the 848 00:44:02,059 --> 00:44:05,479 backup servers was not a big deal because it was just our group that 849 00:44:05,479 --> 00:44:06,949 was, you know, involved with it. 850 00:44:07,279 --> 00:44:12,889 So us doing it was not a big deal, but to tell other people in other groups 851 00:44:13,069 --> 00:44:17,209 with different managers that, Hey, you've got a thousand Unix servers 852 00:44:17,209 --> 00:44:20,689 out there that need to be upgraded to a newer version of NetBackup. 853 00:44:21,739 --> 00:44:25,339 They're like, man, , we'll just let it go. 854 00:44:28,069 --> 00:44:31,009 W. Curtis Preston: that, and, and again, I, I swear I did not give 855 00:44:31,009 --> 00:44:33,859 you this question just so I could say this, but this is one of the 856 00:44:33,859 --> 00:44:37,819 beauties of SaaS based backup is that you don't have that problem. 857 00:44:38,179 --> 00:44:38,569 Right. 858 00:44:38,749 --> 00:44:43,199 You're never upgrading the backup server and, and we even solved the, the, 859 00:44:43,789 --> 00:44:47,299 the updating of the client that, that could be done by the software itself. 860 00:44:47,959 --> 00:44:51,109 And you can, you know, schedule it I'd, I'd like it to just 861 00:44:51,109 --> 00:44:52,219 be completely automatic. 862 00:44:52,219 --> 00:44:55,009 But I think that a lot of companies don't want that. 863 00:44:55,549 --> 00:44:55,789 Right. 864 00:44:55,789 --> 00:44:59,089 They want some control over when that happens so that they know that it's 865 00:44:59,089 --> 00:45:04,849 happening, but you wouldn't, you wouldn't have had to, um, you wouldn't have 866 00:45:04,849 --> 00:45:07,669 had to spend a lot of time upgrading the servers and upgrading the clients. 867 00:45:07,669 --> 00:45:09,169 Cuz magic just would've happened. 868 00:45:09,289 --> 00:45:11,899 But um, but Hey, but now you're gone. 869 00:45:12,589 --> 00:45:14,239 This is, this is a secret. 870 00:45:14,244 --> 00:45:15,409 This is a secret to backup. 871 00:45:15,409 --> 00:45:17,419 Success is leaving the job all together. 872 00:45:17,959 --> 00:45:22,129 Stuart Liddle: Now, now I'm gone, but let me just put in a shameless plug and say 873 00:45:22,129 --> 00:45:23,839 to anybody out there, who's listening. 874 00:45:23,839 --> 00:45:27,619 If you're interested in hiring me as a NetBackup admin, 875 00:45:29,689 --> 00:45:30,529 W. Curtis Preston: Absolutely 876 00:45:30,889 --> 00:45:31,129 Stuart Liddle: me. 877 00:45:32,029 --> 00:45:35,779 W. Curtis Preston: Stu Stuart knows his stuff and he's got grandkids to pay for. 878 00:45:35,959 --> 00:45:36,289 Stuart Liddle: yeah. 879 00:45:36,289 --> 00:45:36,829 That's right. 880 00:45:37,399 --> 00:45:40,159 W. Curtis Preston: How many, how many grandkids you got going on there? 881 00:45:40,609 --> 00:45:41,899 Stuart Liddle: three, so far 882 00:45:42,649 --> 00:45:43,759 W. Curtis Preston: Three so far. 883 00:45:43,999 --> 00:45:46,729 Stuart Liddle: but two, two here in Denver and one in Seattle. 884 00:45:47,449 --> 00:45:47,689 W. Curtis Preston: Yeah. 885 00:45:47,689 --> 00:45:48,949 Cuz you now live in Denver. 886 00:45:49,519 --> 00:45:52,459 You you've been following your, you've been following your grandkids around. 887 00:45:53,599 --> 00:45:53,929 Stuart Liddle: Yep. 888 00:45:54,259 --> 00:45:54,649 W. Curtis Preston: Yeah. 889 00:45:54,829 --> 00:45:55,039 Yeah. 890 00:45:55,039 --> 00:45:56,179 That is that. 891 00:45:56,179 --> 00:45:57,499 That may be a future. 892 00:45:57,589 --> 00:45:59,089 That may be my future as well. 893 00:45:59,659 --> 00:46:01,459 Uh, right now my grandkid, 894 00:46:02,029 --> 00:46:05,089 uh, I, my office is their former bedroom and their other 895 00:46:05,089 --> 00:46:06,979 bedroom is now right above me. 896 00:46:06,979 --> 00:46:10,099 So I don't have to travel anywhere to see my grandchild. 897 00:46:10,609 --> 00:46:15,469 Stuart, so Stuart, I wanna say, you know, thanks for coming on. 898 00:46:15,499 --> 00:46:16,849 I mean, it's been great to, 899 00:46:16,999 --> 00:46:17,359 to, you 900 00:46:17,364 --> 00:46:23,029 know, we talk about you so many times, your name has come up on this podcast. 901 00:46:23,034 --> 00:46:26,839 So many times as like the guy that told me to put a testing. 902 00:46:27,259 --> 00:46:29,959 Chapter into my book and all of that. 903 00:46:30,019 --> 00:46:30,469 Right. 904 00:46:31,939 --> 00:46:32,159 Um, 905 00:46:32,974 --> 00:46:34,924 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Yeah, your name does come up quite often. 906 00:46:34,924 --> 00:46:36,574 Stuart and it's great to finally meet you. 907 00:46:37,519 --> 00:46:39,559 W. Curtis Preston: and not, and not just because, you know, 908 00:46:39,564 --> 00:46:41,269 we like to giggle at your name 909 00:46:41,659 --> 00:46:41,719 Stuart Liddle: Yeah. 910 00:46:43,969 --> 00:46:44,449 well, nice. 911 00:46:44,509 --> 00:46:47,419 W. Curtis Preston: for the, for those listening and not reading, uh, it is 912 00:46:47,449 --> 00:46:54,349 Liddle with, with Ds, uh, Stuart Liddle, not little, uh, he's not, he's not the 913 00:46:54,354 --> 00:46:58,189 mouse, but, uh, anyway, so, and, uh, and, 914 00:46:58,429 --> 00:46:59,639 Stuart Liddle: Prasanna's not a cat. 915 00:47:00,599 --> 00:47:03,119 W. Curtis Preston: Prasanna's not a cat, uh, and Prasanna, 916 00:47:03,139 --> 00:47:04,669 thanks your questions as well. 917 00:47:05,104 --> 00:47:07,234 Prasanna Malaiyandi: I should say this was a pleasure and I hope I 918 00:47:07,234 --> 00:47:10,954 wasn't poking too much fun at you Curtis and asking Stuart to, uh, 919 00:47:10,984 --> 00:47:12,994 reveal all the mysteries about Curtis 920 00:47:14,569 --> 00:47:17,029 W. Curtis Preston: No one, no one knows all the secrets. 921 00:47:17,269 --> 00:47:21,739 Um, and, uh, I want to thank you again to our listeners. 922 00:47:21,769 --> 00:47:25,279 Remember to subscribe so that you can restore it all.