1 00:00:00,050 --> 00:00:00,960 Erin Austin: Hello ladies. 2 00:00:01,029 --> 00:00:04,649 Welcome to this week's episode of the hourly to exit podcast. 3 00:00:05,072 --> 00:00:12,015 This is the third Episode of our 3 part series about licensing in particular about 4 00:00:12,055 --> 00:00:18,632 some edge cases, what would otherwise be non typical uses of licensing to get 5 00:00:18,632 --> 00:00:21,282 our expertise into more people's hands. 6 00:00:21,662 --> 00:00:23,082 So, part 1. 7 00:00:23,222 --> 00:00:29,612 Which was episode 85, we covered licensing when you provide bespoke custom services, 8 00:00:29,919 --> 00:00:35,952 part two, episode 86, we talked about borrowing other people's audiences when 9 00:00:35,952 --> 00:00:40,265 we don't have our own audience, our own audience isn't large enough to really 10 00:00:40,265 --> 00:00:42,235 have a standard licensing program. 11 00:00:42,442 --> 00:00:47,899 This week, we're going to tackle what to do when you want to use other people's 12 00:00:48,029 --> 00:00:51,419 content in your licensing program. 13 00:00:51,619 --> 00:00:55,179 And just to be clear, a caveat before we get started, when I talk 14 00:00:55,179 --> 00:00:59,269 about using other people's content, I do not mean Licensing entire 15 00:00:59,279 --> 00:01:01,362 program, which is traditional thing. 16 00:01:01,575 --> 00:01:05,462 I mean, you have your own program, but there are some elements of it. 17 00:01:05,659 --> 00:01:08,102 Maybe there's, a study that you use. 18 00:01:08,112 --> 00:01:08,702 That's important. 19 00:01:08,702 --> 00:01:09,342 Part of it. 20 00:01:09,519 --> 00:01:11,469 Maybe there is a graphic that you use. 21 00:01:11,479 --> 00:01:12,649 That's an important part of it. 22 00:01:12,669 --> 00:01:16,325 Maybe there is a video outtake, like a very discreet. 23 00:01:16,519 --> 00:01:21,300 Elements that you've used, from 3rd parties, and maybe you don't have a 24 00:01:21,300 --> 00:01:25,277 license to use it with your 1 on 1 clients, but you recognize the need to 25 00:01:25,317 --> 00:01:31,217 get permission now that you're going to put it into your licensing program. 26 00:01:31,402 --> 00:01:31,662 this. 27 00:01:31,930 --> 00:01:37,067 Addresses those discreet elements, not an entire licensing program. 28 00:01:37,277 --> 00:01:40,983 And so we're going to talk about getting permission to use other people's content 29 00:01:40,983 --> 00:01:43,603 within our own licensing program. 30 00:01:43,840 --> 00:01:47,643 And then the 1 other thing I want to mention is music licensing 31 00:01:47,653 --> 00:01:50,013 is a whole different animal. 32 00:01:50,180 --> 00:01:55,620 We're going to be talking about licensing content, as experts in the B2B space. 33 00:01:55,670 --> 00:01:56,590 This is not. 34 00:01:56,791 --> 00:01:59,671 Covering music licensing, which is a pretty big deal. 35 00:01:59,878 --> 00:02:05,061 And you should not try to license music without having someone who is very 36 00:02:05,061 --> 00:02:07,531 experienced with music licensing involved. 37 00:02:07,805 --> 00:02:08,211 All right. 38 00:02:08,311 --> 00:02:09,111 Enough about that. 39 00:02:09,368 --> 00:02:10,968 So we're going to talk about. 40 00:02:11,180 --> 00:02:16,676 copyright licenses, copyright, just to quickly recap, it provides the 41 00:02:16,746 --> 00:02:22,016 owner of the copyright exclusive rights to reproduce, adapt, publicly 42 00:02:22,026 --> 00:02:27,088 distribute, publicly perform, publicly display the work and to authorize 43 00:02:27,188 --> 00:02:29,408 others to engage in these activities. 44 00:02:29,955 --> 00:02:34,757 if you want to legally do any of those things, reproduce, adapt, 45 00:02:34,757 --> 00:02:37,227 display, let other people use. 46 00:02:37,340 --> 00:02:38,760 Somebody else's content. 47 00:02:38,987 --> 00:02:41,810 You need to have a license to do that. 48 00:02:42,020 --> 00:02:46,851 that is the only way for you to be able to grant other people 49 00:02:47,021 --> 00:02:49,288 the right to use their content. 50 00:02:49,518 --> 00:02:54,541 So it's even more important, in this licensing scenario, but again, 51 00:02:54,551 --> 00:02:58,164 let's go back to, let's say you've been using a report or a graphic 52 00:02:58,164 --> 00:03:02,281 or something with your one on one services or your corporate clients 53 00:03:02,571 --> 00:03:04,138 and you haven't had a license for it. 54 00:03:04,444 --> 00:03:05,086 We get it. 55 00:03:05,116 --> 00:03:09,336 It happens, but when you're going to create a licensing program, 56 00:03:09,366 --> 00:03:14,169 you must make sure that you have a really clean, clearances are called 57 00:03:14,169 --> 00:03:18,036 clearances for everything that appears in your licensing program. 58 00:03:18,036 --> 00:03:19,116 You do not want. 59 00:03:19,119 --> 00:03:23,803 Want to spend the money, the time, the reputation, the political capital, 60 00:03:23,803 --> 00:03:28,766 reputational capital, you create a licensing program and then have somebody 61 00:03:28,766 --> 00:03:32,696 come and say, hey, you don't have permission to use that, that would be 62 00:03:32,834 --> 00:03:38,846 tremendously, embarrassing at best and, lots of potential liability at worst. 63 00:03:39,039 --> 00:03:42,149 So we will talk about the consequences later, but I just 64 00:03:42,149 --> 00:03:43,451 wanted to set that up for you. 65 00:03:43,683 --> 00:03:48,398 So first things first, regardless of where you found the content, I don't care 66 00:03:48,398 --> 00:03:53,088 if it was offered for free, you got on the internet, even if your licensees, 67 00:03:53,088 --> 00:03:55,228 like you're doing a train the trainer. 68 00:03:55,288 --> 00:03:59,714 So your licensees are corporations that will only be using it in house. 69 00:04:00,064 --> 00:04:03,954 Still doesn't matter if it was never registered in the copyright 70 00:04:03,954 --> 00:04:07,464 office, or if you can't find the owner at all, you got it off the 71 00:04:07,504 --> 00:04:08,784 internet and for the life of you. 72 00:04:08,869 --> 00:04:10,399 You cannot find the owner. 73 00:04:10,608 --> 00:04:11,966 None of those things matter. 74 00:04:12,181 --> 00:04:16,269 If you want to have the legal right to use it and put it in your licensing 75 00:04:16,269 --> 00:04:17,728 program, you need to get permission. 76 00:04:17,848 --> 00:04:20,921 So, , general rule, I'm going to make this a blanket statement. 77 00:04:21,254 --> 00:04:23,074 Yeah, I'm good with making this a blanket statement. 78 00:04:23,289 --> 00:04:29,088 Before you use any content, whether text, images, music, video that 79 00:04:29,098 --> 00:04:33,761 you did not create, or you did not commission the creation of, you need 80 00:04:33,761 --> 00:04:35,501 to research its copyright status. 81 00:04:35,854 --> 00:04:41,169 And unless you find that it is in the public domain, then you need to 82 00:04:41,169 --> 00:04:47,023 get permission from whoever owns or controls those rights now before you 83 00:04:47,023 --> 00:04:48,883 include it in your licensing program. 84 00:04:49,119 --> 00:04:53,549 briefly regarding public domain that refers to content, doesn't 85 00:04:53,549 --> 00:04:55,349 mean publicly available content. 86 00:04:55,569 --> 00:04:59,473 Public domain means content that is not protected 87 00:04:59,523 --> 00:05:04,139 By any intellectual property laws, whether copyright trademark patent, et cetera. 88 00:05:04,421 --> 00:05:09,779 So if it is in the public domain, then it is freely available for anyone to 89 00:05:09,789 --> 00:05:15,706 use, to modify, to distribute it without needing permission or paying anything. 90 00:05:15,904 --> 00:05:19,804 typically there's two ways things end up in the public domain, either the copyright 91 00:05:19,804 --> 00:05:21,544 protection that will copyrighted work. 92 00:05:22,021 --> 00:05:25,078 Addressing trademark and patents and things, but for copyrighted work, 93 00:05:25,098 --> 00:05:27,871 the type of content we're typically talking about here, either the 94 00:05:27,881 --> 00:05:30,221 copyright protection has expired. 95 00:05:30,424 --> 00:05:34,496 Or it was never eligible for copyright protection in the first place. 96 00:05:34,754 --> 00:05:38,604 I'm not going to go into what public domain is in this episode. 97 00:05:38,604 --> 00:05:42,494 I did an entire episode about what is public domain. 98 00:05:42,703 --> 00:05:47,218 And you can find that in my, episode 73 of this podcast. 99 00:05:47,258 --> 00:05:49,968 It was part of the copyright ability series, part three. 100 00:05:50,218 --> 00:05:54,338 So if you have any questions about how to figure out if the content you want to 101 00:05:54,348 --> 00:05:57,068 use is in the public domain, Start there. 102 00:05:57,374 --> 00:05:57,688 All right. 103 00:05:57,758 --> 00:06:00,818 So now we're going to assume you have some content. 104 00:06:00,868 --> 00:06:01,928 You've done your analysis. 105 00:06:01,958 --> 00:06:03,338 It's not in the public domain. 106 00:06:03,551 --> 00:06:08,914 Now, uh, first things first, we need to figure out who the owner is. 107 00:06:09,194 --> 00:06:13,014 So if you have the work in front of you, you have a graphic, you have a 108 00:06:13,034 --> 00:06:15,294 research report, you have a video. 109 00:06:15,581 --> 00:06:18,464 Now look to see if there's a copyright notice on there. 110 00:06:18,694 --> 00:06:23,661 When you have the copyright notice, you can then first step go to the U. 111 00:06:23,661 --> 00:06:23,811 S. 112 00:06:23,841 --> 00:06:24,841 copyright office. 113 00:06:25,188 --> 00:06:26,694 that's copyright dot gov. 114 00:06:26,694 --> 00:06:28,874 I'm pretty sure I can't believe I don't have that right in front of me. 115 00:06:29,021 --> 00:06:30,414 I'm pretty sure it's copyright dot gov. 116 00:06:30,648 --> 00:06:35,988 And you can do they have a searchable, platform where you can put in the author. 117 00:06:36,174 --> 00:06:37,364 Or the title. 118 00:06:37,394 --> 00:06:40,221 So new tale of two cities or Charles Dickens. 119 00:06:40,491 --> 00:06:45,781 And you put that in there and it can show everything registered to that author or 120 00:06:45,791 --> 00:06:47,924 everything registered under that title. 121 00:06:48,121 --> 00:06:49,934 And if it's registered, great. 122 00:06:49,944 --> 00:06:52,224 You can look right there to see who the owner is. 123 00:06:52,511 --> 00:06:55,213 however, if you look at the. 124 00:06:55,364 --> 00:06:58,736 Work and you don't find a copyright notice that does not 125 00:06:58,746 --> 00:07:00,136 mean it's in the public domain. 126 00:07:00,294 --> 00:07:04,896 There is currently no requirement to have that copyright notice on there 127 00:07:04,896 --> 00:07:06,756 for copyright protection to apply. 128 00:07:06,984 --> 00:07:09,259 Same goes with searching the. 129 00:07:09,444 --> 00:07:11,064 copyright offices records. 130 00:07:11,271 --> 00:07:11,958 maybe you see it. 131 00:07:11,958 --> 00:07:15,288 It has the circle C on there, and you know the name of it, 132 00:07:15,288 --> 00:07:16,528 but they haven't registered it. 133 00:07:16,714 --> 00:07:20,404 You do not have to register something for the copyright protection to apply. 134 00:07:20,644 --> 00:07:22,064 So this is just a first step. 135 00:07:22,124 --> 00:07:23,568 It is a multi stage. 136 00:07:23,568 --> 00:07:27,094 I'm not going to say that it's as simple as, doing a Google search 137 00:07:27,094 --> 00:07:28,064 or doing a copyright search. 138 00:07:28,064 --> 00:07:29,519 It's not because it's not. 139 00:07:29,651 --> 00:07:34,329 Even let's say you do find in the copyright office, but since the owner 140 00:07:34,329 --> 00:07:39,783 registered it, they license the right to somebody else and they haven't registered 141 00:07:39,793 --> 00:07:43,793 that license agreement or they sold the rights to somebody else and they 142 00:07:43,793 --> 00:07:45,633 haven't registered that sale agreement. 143 00:07:45,853 --> 00:07:49,498 So is more than one step to finding who the owner is. 144 00:07:49,906 --> 00:07:51,106 oh, that was my 2nd point. 145 00:07:51,146 --> 00:07:54,163 So the transfer can be temporary or permanent. 146 00:07:54,163 --> 00:07:58,896 So, let's say a licensing, like, someone may have licensed the exclusive 147 00:07:58,896 --> 00:08:02,643 rights to use, that, research report. 148 00:08:02,846 --> 00:08:08,486 To let's say a journal, for 1 year, the journal has exclusive rights to any 149 00:08:08,506 --> 00:08:10,606 publication of that research report. 150 00:08:10,816 --> 00:08:15,403 And so they don't have the rights to give to you today, but maybe they would 151 00:08:15,413 --> 00:08:17,543 have the rights to give to you next year. 152 00:08:17,823 --> 00:08:19,933 So there's a number of nuances there. 153 00:08:20,193 --> 00:08:23,544 And then let's go to that research report, but maybe you 154 00:08:23,544 --> 00:08:25,684 found it inside of a journal. 155 00:08:25,821 --> 00:08:29,848 And so you see, okay, this journal is, you know, Harvard business review. 156 00:08:29,848 --> 00:08:33,094 And so you go to Harvard, but maybe Harvard only has a license 157 00:08:33,094 --> 00:08:34,464 to publish it that 1 time. 158 00:08:34,668 --> 00:08:38,441 So now you got to go find who actually owns that research report. 159 00:08:38,581 --> 00:08:41,148 And so there are a few steps to getting there. 160 00:08:41,334 --> 00:08:42,751 But, It's not impossible. 161 00:08:42,751 --> 00:08:43,971 It's 100 percent doable. 162 00:08:44,001 --> 00:08:49,158 This digital age, you absolutely with some diligence, you can typically get 163 00:08:49,188 --> 00:08:51,584 to, who the owner is of those rights. 164 00:08:51,881 --> 00:08:52,194 All right. 165 00:08:52,214 --> 00:08:54,101 So we find who the owner is. 166 00:08:54,358 --> 00:08:57,878 Now we need to consider what rights do we need? 167 00:08:58,031 --> 00:09:00,638 we're licensing, for a particular use. 168 00:09:01,124 --> 00:09:05,158 what you need, you don't need, the rights to perform it. 169 00:09:05,341 --> 00:09:09,481 If it is a photograph, but maybe you do need the rights to display it. 170 00:09:09,659 --> 00:09:12,061 Maybe you don't need the rights to make derivatives because 171 00:09:12,061 --> 00:09:13,841 you're just going to use it as is. 172 00:09:14,069 --> 00:09:18,561 Maybe you don't need rights to reproduce it because you're only going to use 173 00:09:18,561 --> 00:09:20,831 it during a single presentation. 174 00:09:21,121 --> 00:09:22,521 So think about. 175 00:09:22,749 --> 00:09:26,078 What rights you need, how will you use it? 176 00:09:26,088 --> 00:09:27,368 Where will you use it? 177 00:09:27,368 --> 00:09:29,608 For how long will you use it? 178 00:09:29,823 --> 00:09:32,091 What rights you need are very different. 179 00:09:32,266 --> 00:09:36,728 If you're going to incorporate that content into an online course, which 180 00:09:37,018 --> 00:09:42,248 hopefully will be an evergreen course and be online and available forever versus the 181 00:09:42,388 --> 00:09:44,928 rights that you need to do a live course. 182 00:09:44,948 --> 00:09:47,386 Ted talk, and then there's everything in between. 183 00:09:47,386 --> 00:09:50,826 I'd say that those are two pretty extreme examples and everything in between. 184 00:09:50,826 --> 00:09:51,146 Right. 185 00:09:51,341 --> 00:09:54,861 if you have an online course, that's going to be available to anyone with an 186 00:09:54,871 --> 00:09:59,794 internet connection, you need the ability to distribute that content worldwide. 187 00:10:00,006 --> 00:10:03,964 On the other hand, if you're going to do just a live Ted talk, maybe 188 00:10:03,964 --> 00:10:08,741 you only need the right to display it, one time in your hometown. 189 00:10:08,741 --> 00:10:13,829 Um, How long you need it to last again in perpetuity, or just that one day, 190 00:10:14,081 --> 00:10:19,509 what other considerations are you may consider, let's say that online course. 191 00:10:19,716 --> 00:10:20,013 Okay. 192 00:10:20,013 --> 00:10:25,779 You have the perpetual worldwide rights to include that content in your online 193 00:10:25,779 --> 00:10:30,336 course, but what if someday you want to roll up that course and do a book? 194 00:10:30,529 --> 00:10:32,109 Have you gotten the rights to do that? 195 00:10:32,273 --> 00:10:36,139 Or what you need to go back to them, that Ted talk, maybe you're, it's 196 00:10:36,139 --> 00:10:40,806 going to be a PowerPoint presentation, but like most places, you know, most 197 00:10:40,806 --> 00:10:44,556 presentations that I've been to are given people want a copy of that PowerPoint. 198 00:10:44,763 --> 00:10:48,853 So do you have rights to give people a copy of your PowerPoint presentation? 199 00:10:49,089 --> 00:10:50,686 So you want to make sure you have that. 200 00:10:50,886 --> 00:10:54,961 And then what if it will be something that you include in the client 201 00:10:54,961 --> 00:11:00,796 deliverable, as you know, from first episode, I'm scrolling back in my notes 202 00:11:00,886 --> 00:11:06,551 here, episode 83, when we talk about bespoke services, those are licenses 203 00:11:06,621 --> 00:11:08,281 that we're granting to our clients. 204 00:11:08,513 --> 00:11:13,334 So our clients are sub licensees, when we are using as part of our 205 00:11:13,334 --> 00:11:15,294 deliverables, something that we got. 206 00:11:15,696 --> 00:11:17,026 somebody else's content. 207 00:11:17,213 --> 00:11:21,166 So we want to make sure that we have the rights to include it, and 208 00:11:21,166 --> 00:11:23,426 sub license it to our end client. 209 00:11:23,456 --> 00:11:27,409 If that's the case, it doesn't have to be a great big licensing program for 210 00:11:27,449 --> 00:11:30,636 sub licensing rights to be required. 211 00:11:30,856 --> 00:11:35,493 And I do want you to think proactively, If you get just that one time use for 212 00:11:35,493 --> 00:11:39,799 your Ted talk in New York City, but then, it's posted online and it goes 213 00:11:39,809 --> 00:11:44,656 viral and it's, make sure that you have the rights to anticipate it going viral. 214 00:11:44,889 --> 00:11:50,229 That said, we want to be realistic about the rights that we ask for, I 215 00:11:50,229 --> 00:11:51,779 used to work in the film business and. 216 00:11:51,884 --> 00:11:56,824 Anytime he got rights to anything, literally it was always all rights 217 00:11:56,904 --> 00:12:01,741 now known or hereafter devised worldwide in perpetuity like that. 218 00:12:01,891 --> 00:12:03,261 I dreamed that in my sleep. 219 00:12:03,498 --> 00:12:05,481 You never got rights for anything less than that. 220 00:12:05,491 --> 00:12:09,704 Cause you never wanted there to be some other way to exploit something. 221 00:12:09,888 --> 00:12:11,988 And somehow you don't have the rights to it. 222 00:12:12,184 --> 00:12:16,071 And just a little aside that goes back to the home video days. 223 00:12:16,368 --> 00:12:19,324 When, studios would just get the rights to make your theatrical motion 224 00:12:19,364 --> 00:12:21,164 pictures, who cares about home video? 225 00:12:21,164 --> 00:12:22,324 Nobody cares about those. 226 00:12:22,506 --> 00:12:23,988 And so they wouldn't get those rights. 227 00:12:23,988 --> 00:12:27,164 And then lo and behold, this whole industry comes up of home 228 00:12:27,164 --> 00:12:31,018 videos and their other, companies snapped up those home video rights. 229 00:12:31,219 --> 00:12:32,511 And so now. 230 00:12:32,731 --> 00:12:36,834 If you're getting the rights to something, I don't care, and, to point in fact, 231 00:12:36,834 --> 00:12:40,738 I mean, streaming and internet and all that stuff, looking at things on your 232 00:12:40,738 --> 00:12:45,181 phone, these are all rights that got scooped up, because of the way technology 233 00:12:45,181 --> 00:12:49,358 has progressed, which they got these rights, 40 years ago, who knew how 234 00:12:49,358 --> 00:12:51,008 we would be consuming content today. 235 00:12:51,199 --> 00:12:55,833 Anyway, that's a little aside, but when you want to be realistic about what 236 00:12:55,833 --> 00:13:01,469 right you get, because it is that you pay for what you get, you know, you 237 00:13:01,469 --> 00:13:04,429 get what you pay for, and you pay for what you get so if you want to get. 238 00:13:04,586 --> 00:13:09,256 All rights worldwide and perpetuity, then you're going to pay for all 239 00:13:09,266 --> 00:13:10,496 rights worldwide and perpetuity. 240 00:13:10,789 --> 00:13:18,316 So be aspirational but for realistic uses of that content, because that will 241 00:13:18,316 --> 00:13:23,219 show up when you get to the next step, which is negotiating your permission. 242 00:13:23,473 --> 00:13:24,833 So now you've. 243 00:13:25,033 --> 00:13:29,806 Hopefully have found the owner and it is time to negotiate the permission 244 00:13:30,003 --> 00:13:33,553 and whether any permission is required. 245 00:13:33,786 --> 00:13:37,296 You will want to provide detailed information about who you are and how 246 00:13:37,296 --> 00:13:43,046 you intend to use the work, including specifics about exactly which material you 247 00:13:43,046 --> 00:13:47,249 are going to use the intended audience, whether it will be distributed for free, 248 00:13:47,259 --> 00:13:53,193 such as your TED talk, or will be sold for profit, like your online course. 249 00:13:53,486 --> 00:13:57,489 So probably your most heavily negotiated point will be whether. 250 00:13:57,656 --> 00:14:01,199 And how much you have to pay for permission to use the content. 251 00:14:01,413 --> 00:14:05,863 Now, if you're here consuming my content, I'm going to assume that 252 00:14:05,863 --> 00:14:10,443 you are in the for profit business and that you will be using this 253 00:14:10,503 --> 00:14:14,621 content to make Money to increase the profitability of your business. 254 00:14:14,641 --> 00:14:18,751 We are here to create leverage in our businesses so that it is more profitable. 255 00:14:19,014 --> 00:14:24,397 So I feel pretty strongly about people not expecting use inventory because 256 00:14:24,397 --> 00:14:28,963 when we're experts, our inventory is IP that we're not expecting to get. 257 00:14:29,113 --> 00:14:30,802 Our inventory for free. 258 00:14:30,993 --> 00:14:33,003 expect that you may need to pay something. 259 00:14:33,178 --> 00:14:36,143 Now, it doesn't mean it's going to be a big chunk of change, like when there's 260 00:14:36,173 --> 00:14:40,947 a movie studios by the film rights to a book, obviously, that's very big numbers. 261 00:14:41,115 --> 00:14:42,658 this could be a minimal amount of money. 262 00:14:42,658 --> 00:14:47,032 It could be, a hundred bucks or something like that, or it could be a thank you. 263 00:14:47,223 --> 00:14:51,258 Recently, somebody asked to use some of my content and I said, sure. 264 00:14:51,298 --> 00:14:53,245 In exchange for a testimonial. 265 00:14:53,387 --> 00:14:56,308 So it doesn't have to be a big chunk of change, but there should 266 00:14:56,318 --> 00:15:00,787 be some consideration, that goes to the owner of that content. 267 00:15:01,017 --> 00:15:05,980 Of course, the more impactful that use will be, and expect to pay more for it. 268 00:15:06,027 --> 00:15:10,540 An online course that's going to be, worth millions of dollars, then 269 00:15:10,550 --> 00:15:15,463 hopefully millions of dollars than you would for, your one time Ted talk. 270 00:15:15,613 --> 00:15:16,003 Right. 271 00:15:16,233 --> 00:15:20,590 So, it should be, in proportion to the impact of that use. 272 00:15:20,972 --> 00:15:24,678 And of course, the more of the content that you're using, the 273 00:15:24,678 --> 00:15:26,558 higher the fee would go as well. 274 00:15:26,763 --> 00:15:32,345 So I encourage you to start this process well in advance of when you'll need it. 275 00:15:32,517 --> 00:15:36,820 Because as I mentioned, the 1st person you contact may not be the right person. 276 00:15:36,820 --> 00:15:39,893 You might go to the journal 1st, they send you there or the publisher 277 00:15:39,903 --> 00:15:43,713 1st, and they send you over there, or maybe someone who sold it. 278 00:15:43,990 --> 00:15:46,660 Someone died and you need to find air. 279 00:15:46,943 --> 00:15:48,253 So you need to. 280 00:15:48,427 --> 00:15:53,030 Make sure that you don't get in a bind because you need something and oh, I'm 281 00:15:53,030 --> 00:15:56,400 planning to make my course go live next week and I need to have this thing. 282 00:15:56,617 --> 00:16:00,463 So make sure you plan ahead and we'll talk about plan B's as well in a minute. 283 00:16:00,760 --> 00:16:04,000 Finally, get permission in writing. 284 00:16:04,240 --> 00:16:09,593 Yes, you can get legally enforceable permission to use the content. 285 00:16:09,995 --> 00:16:11,695 through an oral agreement. 286 00:16:11,900 --> 00:16:12,728 But don't do it. 287 00:16:12,970 --> 00:16:17,765 When you get permission in writing, you can be certain that all parties share 288 00:16:17,765 --> 00:16:20,375 the same understanding of the terms. 289 00:16:20,385 --> 00:16:23,051 It's the only way to get there is to make sure there's no 290 00:16:23,051 --> 00:16:25,355 misunderstanding as if it is in writing. 291 00:16:25,560 --> 00:16:28,928 If for some reason you ever need to enforce, that permission, let's 292 00:16:28,928 --> 00:16:31,168 say someone says, Hey, I never agree that you could use that. 293 00:16:31,368 --> 00:16:33,711 You want to make sure you have written evidence. 294 00:16:33,935 --> 00:16:38,541 And then finally, you know, well, there's many reasons, but another reason is, 295 00:16:38,541 --> 00:16:43,161 let's say, you know, your TED talk that you had, that, goes viral and blows 296 00:16:43,161 --> 00:16:46,401 up and suddenly people are asking you to give speeches all over the place. 297 00:16:46,690 --> 00:16:49,940 if you don't have something in writing that says, Hey, you can use it here and 298 00:16:49,940 --> 00:16:54,400 there, but you just had an oral agreement that said you can use it, online and 299 00:16:54,595 --> 00:16:58,626 all these places, believe me, that copyright owner is going to come back 300 00:16:58,636 --> 00:17:01,323 to you with his handout when he sees it. 301 00:17:01,323 --> 00:17:01,763 There's a big deal. 302 00:17:01,993 --> 00:17:03,746 Big, big, money at play. 303 00:17:03,973 --> 00:17:05,183 So get that in writing. 304 00:17:05,183 --> 00:17:09,373 You don't want to have to go back and renegotiate when something blows up. 305 00:17:09,393 --> 00:17:11,413 That's worst case scenario for you. 306 00:17:11,643 --> 00:17:16,613 And please don't let the fear of contracts keep you from seeking permission. 307 00:17:16,836 --> 00:17:20,393 There is rarely any need for your permission to exceed 308 00:17:20,403 --> 00:17:23,513 more than one or two pages. 309 00:17:23,862 --> 00:17:29,103 Remember, again, the use we're talking about today is not Licensing the entire 310 00:17:29,103 --> 00:17:33,620 program, but licensing some element that somebody else owns that you want 311 00:17:33,620 --> 00:17:36,330 to put into your licensing program. 312 00:17:36,575 --> 00:17:39,755 So what should that permission letter include? 313 00:17:39,992 --> 00:17:43,833 To be really effective, you want it to have detailed 314 00:17:43,833 --> 00:17:46,126 information about your request. 315 00:17:46,336 --> 00:17:51,621 Again, at the end of the day, assume that the copyright owner is a human. 316 00:17:51,641 --> 00:17:54,115 It might not be, it might be a corporation, but that they'll 317 00:17:54,115 --> 00:17:57,075 want to know more about you and how you're going to use it. 318 00:17:57,341 --> 00:18:01,985 So first introduce yourself, tell who you are, maybe a brief 319 00:18:02,065 --> 00:18:03,865 summary of your credentials. 320 00:18:04,119 --> 00:18:04,278 Yeah. 321 00:18:04,278 --> 00:18:08,808 For example, I'm an executive coach who works with fortune 500 companies 322 00:18:09,025 --> 00:18:11,205 to turn their managers into leaders. 323 00:18:11,502 --> 00:18:14,008 So that tells them, okay, I see how that's going to be used. 324 00:18:14,245 --> 00:18:15,175 What, be as. 325 00:18:15,506 --> 00:18:17,206 Specific as possible. 326 00:18:17,381 --> 00:18:19,820 When you describe the work that you want to use, you don't want 327 00:18:19,820 --> 00:18:23,113 them to guess what you want to use what needs to be very clear. 328 00:18:23,113 --> 00:18:25,495 And again, because this permission letter if all goes 329 00:18:25,495 --> 00:18:27,225 well will also be the agreement. 330 00:18:27,441 --> 00:18:30,211 So you want to have as many specifics as possible in there. 331 00:18:30,416 --> 00:18:35,138 Now, do you want to use the entire work which you might if it's just a graphic or 332 00:18:35,138 --> 00:18:36,998 research report or maybe you only need to. 333 00:18:37,213 --> 00:18:38,381 pull out a few pages. 334 00:18:38,381 --> 00:18:42,235 I want to reproduce pages 10 through 12 of this report. 335 00:18:42,388 --> 00:18:45,645 you can even include a copy of it if that makes sense to make sure it's 336 00:18:45,645 --> 00:18:51,011 really clear what you want to use, or the timestamps of a video clip. 337 00:18:51,778 --> 00:18:52,638 will you use it? 338 00:18:52,870 --> 00:18:57,518 Will it be for commercial use, which is what most of us are using it for. 339 00:18:57,680 --> 00:18:59,576 We're going to be putting it in a PDF. 340 00:18:59,670 --> 00:19:03,763 group coaching program on an online course or a train the trainer licensing 341 00:19:03,763 --> 00:19:09,976 program, Or non profit or educational if that applies Educational does not apply 342 00:19:10,006 --> 00:19:12,066 to corporate training just to be clear. 343 00:19:12,240 --> 00:19:16,933 That means academia And of course, whether or not you're going to need 344 00:19:16,933 --> 00:19:18,913 to sub license it to third parties. 345 00:19:19,096 --> 00:19:22,190 If you're going to be including their materials in the train, the trainer 346 00:19:22,190 --> 00:19:27,623 licensing, you need to be able to sub license their content to your licenses. 347 00:19:27,826 --> 00:19:31,443 If you're going to put it in your online course, you're going to need to be 348 00:19:31,443 --> 00:19:33,313 able to license it to your licenses. 349 00:19:33,503 --> 00:19:36,530 I know we did not talk about online courses as being licenses, 350 00:19:36,530 --> 00:19:38,450 but they are licenses as well. 351 00:19:38,450 --> 00:19:41,246 If you've ever, the next time you buy an online course, 352 00:19:41,306 --> 00:19:42,456 read the terms and conditions. 353 00:19:42,456 --> 00:19:47,310 I know none of us do, but you will see that there is licensing language in there. 354 00:19:47,430 --> 00:19:51,000 Or if you buy a template online, you'll see that there's licensing 355 00:19:51,000 --> 00:19:52,380 language in there as well. 356 00:19:52,600 --> 00:19:57,650 What's really important is don't try to be slick or hide the intensity 357 00:19:57,680 --> 00:20:03,956 of your plan The permission that you obtain is limited by The terms 358 00:20:03,956 --> 00:20:05,796 that are in your permission letter. 359 00:20:05,926 --> 00:20:10,883 So you can't, well, you don't want to try to interpret it expansively. 360 00:20:11,075 --> 00:20:15,080 Anything that you need the rights to do should be in your permission 361 00:20:15,080 --> 00:20:16,810 letter in black and white. 362 00:20:17,048 --> 00:20:21,895 if you want to, secure permission to include a video clip in your one on one 363 00:20:21,895 --> 00:20:26,908 executive coaching, but the permission does not include, the right to share 364 00:20:26,908 --> 00:20:31,045 it in group coaching, then you don't have the right to share it that way. 365 00:20:31,209 --> 00:20:34,388 If it doesn't include a right to post it on your website, you don't 366 00:20:34,388 --> 00:20:35,848 have a right to share it that way. 367 00:20:35,989 --> 00:20:40,119 If it doesn't include the right to sell copies at a conference, you don't 368 00:20:40,129 --> 00:20:42,169 have a right to share it that way. 369 00:20:42,389 --> 00:20:43,359 So, if you want. 370 00:20:43,536 --> 00:20:47,642 Any rights that you want, make sure that they're in there and, don't leave them out 371 00:20:47,642 --> 00:20:49,002 because you're trying to make it cheaper. 372 00:20:49,206 --> 00:20:50,109 That's not going to work. 373 00:20:50,309 --> 00:20:54,152 Then you're going to state for how long you plan to use it again. 374 00:20:54,182 --> 00:20:58,072 Is it a single presentation or is it something that will be evergreen and 375 00:20:58,072 --> 00:21:00,885 that you'll need a perpetual rights for. 376 00:21:01,106 --> 00:21:02,422 Where will you use it? 377 00:21:02,452 --> 00:21:08,139 in our digital world, there's almost no reason to limit it to a location. 378 00:21:08,139 --> 00:21:11,639 You're pretty much going to want to have in there that, it will be posted 379 00:21:11,639 --> 00:21:15,535 on the Internet at some point, if not now in the future, and therefore 380 00:21:15,535 --> 00:21:17,015 you're going to need provide access. 381 00:21:17,372 --> 00:21:21,095 obviously there could be reasons why it would only be location dependent. 382 00:21:21,095 --> 00:21:25,618 Maybe you only do one on one services and that's all you do and you only do it. 383 00:21:25,858 --> 00:21:29,450 it's something that is regional like realtors, or doctors or 384 00:21:29,450 --> 00:21:32,335 lawyers who are only have licenses. 385 00:21:32,536 --> 00:21:35,865 In the other sense of the word of licenses, they're only able to practice 386 00:21:35,915 --> 00:21:40,138 in a specific location, then maybe you only need that specific location. 387 00:21:40,366 --> 00:21:43,618 But for most of us, we will want to be able to post it on the internet. 388 00:21:43,816 --> 00:21:47,188 And then why are you reaching out to them? 389 00:21:47,335 --> 00:21:49,845 sometimes we know a hundred percent certainty, like we know with a hundred 390 00:21:49,845 --> 00:21:52,625 percent certainty, if we want to use Mickey mouse, we need to go to Disney. 391 00:21:52,773 --> 00:21:56,986 But sometimes we're not completely sure we've done our investigation 392 00:21:57,006 --> 00:21:59,606 and we think we got the right person, but we're not sure. 393 00:21:59,771 --> 00:22:03,993 But it's really helpful to say, Hey, I'm writing to you because I believe 394 00:22:03,993 --> 00:22:08,043 your company acquired, the company that originally published the book, 395 00:22:08,053 --> 00:22:12,256 or I'm writing to you because you're the grandson of the original writer. 396 00:22:12,256 --> 00:22:16,256 And so I believe you may have inherited the rights to, his works. 397 00:22:16,546 --> 00:22:17,510 And that gives them. 398 00:22:17,796 --> 00:22:19,460 A hint about, where's this coming from? 399 00:22:19,460 --> 00:22:19,980 Why me? 400 00:22:20,180 --> 00:22:23,940 cause that content may not be at top of mind for them. 401 00:22:24,146 --> 00:22:27,640 And what I really want you to remember is that there is no 402 00:22:27,640 --> 00:22:29,290 defense for copyright infringement. 403 00:22:29,463 --> 00:22:34,326 I'm ignoring for the moment, fair use defense, because you know how strongly I 404 00:22:34,346 --> 00:22:39,433 feel about fair use defense and that it typically doesn't end well for anyone. 405 00:22:39,630 --> 00:22:41,616 so we want to. 406 00:22:41,716 --> 00:22:45,471 Stay clean with our uses of content. 407 00:22:45,471 --> 00:22:50,735 We do not own ignorance is not a defense accidentally using something 408 00:22:50,735 --> 00:22:52,455 you don't own is not a defense. 409 00:22:52,725 --> 00:22:54,325 Good concept intentions. 410 00:22:54,481 --> 00:22:55,761 It was great publicity. 411 00:22:55,761 --> 00:22:57,531 Look how much publicity she got from this. 412 00:22:57,793 --> 00:22:59,361 That's not an excuse either. 413 00:22:59,534 --> 00:23:01,514 when you infringe copyrights in the U. 414 00:23:01,514 --> 00:23:06,764 S., there are civil, and that's like money damages, and criminal 415 00:23:06,854 --> 00:23:09,247 consequences to infringements. 416 00:23:09,506 --> 00:23:14,951 And, I did a entire episode about that as well, in that same Copyrightability 417 00:23:14,961 --> 00:23:19,071 series, where I go in depth about what the possible consequences 418 00:23:19,141 --> 00:23:21,471 are, for copyright infringement. 419 00:23:21,671 --> 00:23:27,886 So that Is to say to leave you with this get permission for any content 420 00:23:28,031 --> 00:23:33,642 that you use in your licensing program that you do not own and that you have 421 00:23:34,092 --> 00:23:39,152 definitively confirmed that it is in the public domain, you know, if it's. 422 00:23:39,562 --> 00:23:41,861 Tale of two cities, for instance, or Shakespeare. 423 00:23:42,034 --> 00:23:45,694 but on the, oh, that reminds me of one issue with that public domain. 424 00:23:45,859 --> 00:23:49,294 Don't forget that someone can create a derivative of 425 00:23:49,294 --> 00:23:50,524 something in the public domain. 426 00:23:50,524 --> 00:23:53,923 And that derivative is still protected, there's some like, I was 427 00:23:53,923 --> 00:23:57,323 looking at this, the wizard of Oz, which the original wizard of Oz in 428 00:23:57,323 --> 00:24:01,070 the public domain, but a lot of the, sequels are not in the public domain. 429 00:24:01,070 --> 00:24:01,480 So there's. 430 00:24:01,610 --> 00:24:02,510 Stuff like that. 431 00:24:02,730 --> 00:24:07,307 so you just want to make sure that you get permission for anything that 432 00:24:07,307 --> 00:24:08,967 you're using in your licensing program. 433 00:24:09,135 --> 00:24:14,250 You do not want to, damage your reputation or get into any of these 434 00:24:14,260 --> 00:24:18,017 civil or criminal, consequences for not getting permission. 435 00:24:18,247 --> 00:24:20,549 So get permission with that. 436 00:24:20,549 --> 00:24:24,676 I want to let you know that I have created a guide to getting permission 437 00:24:24,676 --> 00:24:26,786 to use other people's content. 438 00:24:26,985 --> 00:24:31,343 And it was created concurrently with the recording of this podcast. 439 00:24:31,646 --> 00:24:33,256 So if it is not. 440 00:24:33,403 --> 00:24:37,933 Available when this podcast episode goes live, it will be very shortly. 441 00:24:38,133 --> 00:24:43,126 And so there will be a way to, sign up to get it when it does go become available, 442 00:24:43,233 --> 00:24:45,799 but go to protect your expertise. 443 00:24:46,039 --> 00:24:47,536 com, protect your expertise. 444 00:24:47,736 --> 00:24:48,156 com. 445 00:24:48,346 --> 00:24:50,273 And you can find it there. 446 00:24:50,423 --> 00:24:54,983 And there will be a growing collection of other resources to help you on your 447 00:24:54,993 --> 00:24:57,273 journey from hourly to exit there. 448 00:24:57,486 --> 00:24:58,163 Thanks guys.