Wendy Green:

Hello and welcome to Hey, Boomer.

Wendy Green:

This is the show for those of us who believe that we are never too old to set another goal

Wendy Green:

or dream a new dream.

Wendy Green:

My name is Wendy Green and I am your host for Hey Boomer.

Wendy Green:

And hope you had a good weekend.

Wendy Green:

My weekend was busy.

Wendy Green:

I saw a parade for the Saint Patrick's Day parade a week early.

Wendy Green:

I went to a movie festival.

Wendy Green:

I went to a show called Big River, which was a great show about Huckleberry Finn and Joe.

Wendy Green:

So if you ever get a chance to see it, highly recommend it.

Wendy Green:

But today we are going to talk with Kathy Kulesza.

Wendy Green:

And Kathy has over 30 years of progressive experience in the hospitality industry, and

Wendy Green:

she pulls from this experience in her work as a keynote speaker and consultant to help

Wendy Green:

supervisors become better listeners.

Wendy Green:

Become more human centered and as a result, they become better leaders.

Wendy Green:

Our topic today is multigenerational work environment.

Wendy Green:

The ideas we will discuss today will apply not only in the work environment, but also to

Wendy Green:

you who may be volunteering or mentoring or even just showing up as a parent or a

Wendy Green:

grandparent in your family.

Wendy Green:

Understanding how different generations approach the world and see the world and

Wendy Green:

think about the world, all of those impact how we interact.

Wendy Green:

So Kathy and I are going to discuss some of that today, and we are going to learn about

Wendy Green:

ways to better communicate with the different generations and understand their

Wendy Green:

perspectives. But before I bring them on, I always like to remind you to thank our

Wendy Green:

sponsor, Road Scholar.

Wendy Green:

Road Scholar is the leading expert, nonprofit expert in educational travel for those 50 and

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beyond and for grandparent trips.

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And they travel to all 50 states as well as over 100 countries.

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And it is one of my favorite ways to travel.

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I have taken several grandparent trips.

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I have taken several just road scholar adult trips.

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I have two more scheduled this summer.

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So check out their sponsor link at Road Scholar.

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Org slash.

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Hey Boomer, the next time you think about taking a trip, check out Road Scholar first.

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I also want to tell you about a couple of free takeaways that I think are super

Wendy Green:

important. One would be the vitality assessment.

Wendy Green:

The Vitality assessment will give you some insight into whether you are fully vitalized,

Wendy Green:

whether you have sustained energy.

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If your tank is half empty or if it's time to really look at your life and say, Hmm,

Wendy Green:

maybe I need to do make some changes here.

Wendy Green:

It's free to download.

Wendy Green:

Just go to. Hey Boomer showbiz and click on the Vitality Assessment link and you will

Wendy Green:

receive the vitality assessment in your email.

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You can also schedule a 20 minute session for complimentary coaching with me,

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and this also will give you some insights.

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You really will come away from that 20 minutes with some aha moments just because we

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talked. But I also wanted to let you know that this April I am launching two new Hey

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Boomer, what's next group coaching programs?

Wendy Green:

And the first one will start on Saturday, April the 15th, and that will meet from 930

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to 11 and that goes for six weeks.

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The next one will start on Thursday, April 20th, and that will meet from 5 to 630.

Wendy Green:

And I'm trying the two different times to see what might work better For those of you

Wendy Green:

that would be interested in making a plan coming out of six weeks with a plan for what

Wendy Green:

the next six months to a year is going to look like as you transition from full time

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work to whatever is next for you.

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So you can go to, hey, Boomer biz slash coaching and just click on the link to

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schedule a 20 minute complimentary session.

Wendy Green:

And let's talk about what would make you feel better in this next chapter of your

Wendy Green:

life. So.

Wendy Green:

Kathy Kulesza.

Wendy Green:

Learn the hard way that to be a successful leader, you must be a confident leader.

Wendy Green:

As I said, she spent three decades in the hospitality industry, moving up the ranks in

Wendy Green:

management training, customer service, loyalty, marketing and executive leadership.

Wendy Green:

Now she spends her days inspiring her clients and audiences to get out of their own

Wendy Green:

way and lead without apologizing.

Wendy Green:

Kathy has shared these life changing lessons with more than 20,000 up and coming leaders

Wendy Green:

at 600 plus in-person and virtual events.

Wendy Green:

And when she's not on an airplane or in front of an audience, Kathy enjoys spending

Wendy Green:

time with her family, especially her nieces, taking walks with her furry little friend

Wendy Green:

Sissy, and catching up with friends and family.

Wendy Green:

And she is happy to do it all in her hometown of Las Vegas.

Wendy Green:

So let me bring Kathy on so you all can meet her.

Wendy Green:

Hey, Kathy.

Kathi Kulesza:

Hello. Hello.

Kathi Kulesza:

I'm so glad to be here with you, Wendy.

Wendy Green:

I'm very much looking forward to this conversation.

Wendy Green:

Thank you.

Wendy Green:

So let's get started.

Wendy Green:

And one of the things I wanted to start with, Kathy, is a little bit out of the

Wendy Green:

business world.

Wendy Green:

So when we talked the first time, you mentioned being the oldest child and having,

Wendy Green:

you know, older parents and young much younger siblings and and how.

Wendy Green:

Your leadership lessons that you've learned is helping you communicate across those

Wendy Green:

generations. So I'm curious what you have learned that is helping you in the family

Wendy Green:

situation.

Kathi Kulesza:

Yeah, it's it's something I've said quite a bit because my mother is 81 and has no short

Kathi Kulesza:

term memory. So it's put a it's put us I'm I'm the oldest of six and it's had to put us

Kathi Kulesza:

in these situations where we're communicating probably more meaningfully than

Kathi Kulesza:

we have in years.

Kathi Kulesza:

Right. Because you think about family events, you get together, you get updates on

Kathi Kulesza:

your career, the kids, all the thing.

Kathi Kulesza:

But, you know, now we're talking about some really important topics related to my mother,

Kathi Kulesza:

you know, the financial situation, her health, whether she stays in her home or not.

Kathi Kulesza:

And I've I've said many times that this being the oldest child and the conversations

Kathi Kulesza:

we're having right now has tested everything I've learned about leadership over the last,

Kathi Kulesza:

you know, 4 or 5 decades, because it's when you're communicating with family, it's it

Kathi Kulesza:

really strikes home how important it is to try to get it right, you know, because

Kathi Kulesza:

there's I mean, anybody that's going through this, you already know there's a lot of

Kathi Kulesza:

stress around decisions made about your parent.

Kathi Kulesza:

And each person has their own ideas of what should be done, how we should be doing it.

Kathi Kulesza:

Not everybody has the same skill sets, you know, as far as emotional intelligence and

Kathi Kulesza:

communication skills.

Kathi Kulesza:

So it's it's definitely I'm glad that I've had the experience I've had in my life

Kathi Kulesza:

because I'm using everything I've ever learned to be, you know, a good sister, a

Kathi Kulesza:

good daughter, and try to be I feel like the pressure of being the oldest child to be, you

Kathi Kulesza:

know, a really good role model.

Kathi Kulesza:

But I'm going to be honest with you, I'm not perfect because it's a very emotional topic,

Kathi Kulesza:

right? I mean, it's it's a difficult topic.

Kathi Kulesza:

Yeah. And we don't all agree on everything.

Kathi Kulesza:

So and we have I have sisters, so there's six of us.

Kathi Kulesza:

I have sisters who are 18 years younger than me.

Kathi Kulesza:

So, I mean, there's different generations involved.

Kathi Kulesza:

And even their children who are, you know, ten, you know, ten, 11 years old, they're in,

Kathi Kulesza:

you know, listening and watching and observing.

Kathi Kulesza:

And then we've got, you know, a couple nephews that are 26, 21.

Kathi Kulesza:

So, I mean, there's several different generations involved in this.

Kathi Kulesza:

And I think for me, it's it's been, you know, a big center of what I'm dealing with

Kathi Kulesza:

right now and what we're dealing with.

Kathi Kulesza:

And I feel like we weren't prepared for our aging parents because nobody talks about it

Kathi Kulesza:

until you're in it.

Kathi Kulesza:

Right. And this is probably one of the biggest challenges of the boomers and the Gen

Kathi Kulesza:

Xers right now.

Kathi Kulesza:

And I hope we get it right so future generations know what to do with us because.

Wendy Green:

Yeah, well and that's well, and that is something we have talked about on the show

Wendy Green:

before about how to have those conversations with your parents while they're still able to

Wendy Green:

have the conversations with you, you know, which is ideally the time.

Wendy Green:

But but that's wonderful that your leadership experience is helping you kind of

Wendy Green:

be a leader in the family right now, which which is a lot of pressure.

Wendy Green:

You're right. Yeah.

Wendy Green:

I also wanted to say that as boomer women, so I was in the tech field and you were in

Wendy Green:

the hospitality industry, both fairly male dominated industries, right?

Wendy Green:

Yeah. And so we learned to kind of fit in, to not be too outspoken because otherwise you

Wendy Green:

were labeled, you know, as a bitch or too aggressive or whatever.

Wendy Green:

And I'm I'm curious now from what you're seeing, Kathy, in the workplace.

Wendy Green:

Our younger women, are they taking on those same kinds of outlooks on how they should

Wendy Green:

work in the workplace, or are they feeling more self-confident in themselves than we did

Wendy Green:

back in the day?

Kathi Kulesza:

The the much younger so probably more millennial women from what I've seen and I

Kathi Kulesza:

hate to put people into categories because the reality is we are a blend of all the

Kathi Kulesza:

different influences we have around us.

Kathi Kulesza:

So I think one thing we should never do is just categorize or generalize.

Kathi Kulesza:

But I would say from what I've seen from younger women, they're more likely to be a

Kathi Kulesza:

little bit more assertive, more likely to apply for jobs that they're not as ready for,

Kathi Kulesza:

like where we would always have to be 100% ready.

Kathi Kulesza:

I think they're more comfortable being themselves and and and being visible or more

Kathi Kulesza:

visible than we were.

Kathi Kulesza:

But you're right. Like are we?

Kathi Kulesza:

I think we talked about this like I was in a room typically.

Kathi Kulesza:

I was a when I was a general manager, I remember I would go to these general manager

Kathi Kulesza:

meetings and for every ten general managers, two of us were women.

Kathi Kulesza:

And I had the blue suit, the black suit, you know, the the the solid colored shirt.

Kathi Kulesza:

And I would put a little one of those square little scarfs on that kind of look like a

Kathi Kulesza:

tie. And, you know, and back then and it's funny because I tell my sisters about this,

Kathi Kulesza:

like in the 80 seconds, women had to wear skirts or dresses like pants were not even

Kathi Kulesza:

allowed. The dress code was you had to wear dresses or skirts and you had to wear nylons.

Wendy Green:

That's right. And mostly mostly business suits.

Kathi Kulesza:

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Kathi Kulesza:

So business suits and yeah, so, you know, so I did I did try to blend in, but I've also

Kathi Kulesza:

had women tell me that their go to method is they try to blend in and I think we have to

Kathi Kulesza:

stop doing that.

Kathi Kulesza:

It worked for our generation and I think it was almost necessary for survival for our

Kathi Kulesza:

generation because it was so male dominated and it all the bosses were men.

Kathi Kulesza:

I've only worked for two women in my entire career.

Kathi Kulesza:

I've had amazing male mentors.

Kathi Kulesza:

But I think today we are at a point where women it's more acceptable and and more

Kathi Kulesza:

expected that women do speak up and stand out and pull from their personalities and

Kathi Kulesza:

allow allow themselves give themselves permission to be who they are.

Kathi Kulesza:

But yeah, big differences.

Kathi Kulesza:

But I think the younger women are going to help us, you know, expand a little bit more

Kathi Kulesza:

when it comes to our personalities and our uniqueness.

Wendy Green:

So in the work environment, though, if older women learn from the younger women to be more

Wendy Green:

outspoken, to assert ourselves, do you think that's perceived in a positive way now?

Kathi Kulesza:

Uh, so I, you know, I actually think that.

Kathi Kulesza:

So I'm 61, right?

Kathi Kulesza:

So I think being assertive is a learned skill.

Kathi Kulesza:

And I this is my opinion, you know, what opinions are like.

Kathi Kulesza:

They're like elbows. Everybody has at least two of them.

Kathi Kulesza:

Uh, you know, we learn communication skills from the people around us.

Kathi Kulesza:

So I learned how to be passive from my mother, and I learned how to be aggressive

Kathi Kulesza:

from my father.

Kathi Kulesza:

And I learned how to be assertive on the job training.

Kathi Kulesza:

And, you know, I believe that the one thing that the more seasoned and that's my if

Kathi Kulesza:

you're younger listening to, Hey, Boomer, don't call us older, call us seasoned because

Kathi Kulesza:

it will change your your perspective of us.

Kathi Kulesza:

But I think the the women that are in our age group probably have learned to be

Kathi Kulesza:

assertive. And if they haven't, they should definitely take some lessons from the younger

Kathi Kulesza:

generations. I know I learned it because I had to in order for me to grow and move into

Kathi Kulesza:

other positions, I had to learn how to be assertive because without being assertive,

Kathi Kulesza:

you're not speaking up.

Kathi Kulesza:

And if you're not heard, you're not seen.

Kathi Kulesza:

And then if you're not visible, it's hard to get the next position.

Kathi Kulesza:

But I think women who are in our generation who have not learned how to do that, that

Kathi Kulesza:

should be your priority.

Kathi Kulesza:

And if you have to learn from somebody who's younger than you, why not do that?

Kathi Kulesza:

Because you have plenty to offer them.

Kathi Kulesza:

You have plenty to share with them, your seasoned professional, and you can trade some

Kathi Kulesza:

of the skills you have for some of the skills that they're learning at a younger

Kathi Kulesza:

age.

Wendy Green:

Which ties me into what I wanted to talk about next.

Wendy Green:

Because you mentioned you had plenty of male mentors, good mentors.

Wendy Green:

Are you seeing like reverse mentoring?

Wendy Green:

You know, we're we're women in our in our boomer age group are mentoring young people

Wendy Green:

in, say, the political realities of a work environment.

Wendy Green:

And the young women are mentoring the more seasoned or older women in the technology in

Wendy Green:

assertiveness and those kinds of things.

Kathi Kulesza:

So I think we have a lot of work to do in this area because, you know, there still is a

Kathi Kulesza:

lot of, um, comments made.

Kathi Kulesza:

You know, in the environments that I'm in, which I do a lot of teaching, right?

Kathi Kulesza:

A lot of courses and coursework.

Kathi Kulesza:

And I hear a lot of complaints from the younger generations about the older people

Kathi Kulesza:

that work for them and how difficult they are to manage.

Kathi Kulesza:

And I hear a lot of complaints from us, more seasoned individuals.

Kathi Kulesza:

Mostly we don't complain about Gen X.

Kathi Kulesza:

Typically, people complain about millennials, right?

Kathi Kulesza:

And I think there's a lot of work to be done in being more open minded and more curious

Kathi Kulesza:

about the other generations.

Kathi Kulesza:

So I believe the boomers and it's kind of like the the Gen X.

Kathi Kulesza:

They seem to be a little bit more, um, flexible, right?

Kathi Kulesza:

They can flex and relate better to boomers.

Kathi Kulesza:

They can flex and relate better to the millennials.

Kathi Kulesza:

It's the it's the boomers and the millennials where there seems to be more

Kathi Kulesza:

tension. So I think the boomers have an opportunity to be more curious and and step

Kathi Kulesza:

away from the idea that the way we do things, the way we look at the world, is the

Kathi Kulesza:

only way because the world is changing and we're not going to stop it.

Kathi Kulesza:

Right, Right. And when you complain about a millennial now, I'm not a parent.

Kathi Kulesza:

I'm a dog parent.

Kathi Kulesza:

I have not birthed any children.

Kathi Kulesza:

But there's a good chance if you're a boomer, you may have birthed the millennial.

Kathi Kulesza:

So you are responsible for this generation because you brought them into the world.

Kathi Kulesza:

And for the millennials, Like my greatest advice to them is, is that same thing?

Kathi Kulesza:

Just looking at it from a different place is let's not look at the boomers as older,

Kathi Kulesza:

because that word alone basically has the connotation that they don't have as much use,

Kathi Kulesza:

right? And they're almost expired.

Kathi Kulesza:

But if you look at the boomers and the people that are older than you as seasoned,

Kathi Kulesza:

that completely changes your picture of who that person is.

Kathi Kulesza:

Seasoning means that they've got experience.

Kathi Kulesza:

They can still contribute.

Kathi Kulesza:

So your approach to them alone is going to be different because you're looking at them

Kathi Kulesza:

as somebody that you can still learn from.

Kathi Kulesza:

And I think that's one of the lessons I learned a long time ago, is that when I was

Kathi Kulesza:

younger is my willingness to learn from my staff and my people when I was young was one

Kathi Kulesza:

of the greatest gifts I could give them because it showed that I respected them and

Kathi Kulesza:

their knowledge. Because as a boss, I never really had all the answers.

Kathi Kulesza:

I just learned how to work with people and relate with people.

Kathi Kulesza:

And often times I had people working for me that were much smarter than me or they had

Kathi Kulesza:

expertise that I did not have because it's like a puzzle, right?

Kathi Kulesza:

When you're a leader, you're trying to put the pieces together so that you put people

Kathi Kulesza:

around you that make you better because they have skills that you don't have.

Kathi Kulesza:

Right, Right, right. So both generations can do that, but they have to be curious and

Kathi Kulesza:

willing to learn about the other person and try not to.

Kathi Kulesza:

And that's where it goes back to don't categorize that person.

Kathi Kulesza:

Don't look at somebody who's, you know, like, so I'm a young boomer, right?

Kathi Kulesza:

I'm at the cusp, you know, 61.

Kathi Kulesza:

Don't look at people that are 60 and think, oh, they're washed up, dried up, you know,

Kathi Kulesza:

because they're not there. This is like, I think, one of the greatest decades and one of

Kathi Kulesza:

the greatest sources of of people that we can put into the workforce because they're

Kathi Kulesza:

going to be loyal. They're going to be hard workers.

Kathi Kulesza:

You know, they don't necessarily need to be the boss anymore, but they're less likely to

Kathi Kulesza:

probably quit jobs because they're they have that loyalty mindset.

Kathi Kulesza:

And if you can find a place for them and develop a relationship with them, which is a

Kathi Kulesza:

core thing, when you're hiring people, then you can have that person working for you

Kathi Kulesza:

probably for another 10 or 15 years because we're not done, right?

Kathi Kulesza:

That's right.

Wendy Green:

That's right. We're not done.

Wendy Green:

But you know what? You hear so much, Cathy, about the ageism when people are looking for

Wendy Green:

jobs again, you know, and they go in and they're 65, even 70, they've got the gray

Wendy Green:

hair and the managers, the hiring managers are the millennials, you know, the 30 to 40

Wendy Green:

year olds. And they look at that and they get intimidated or they feel like they're

Wendy Green:

washed up, like you said.

Wendy Green:

Um, how do you coach your clients on those kinds of issues?

Kathi Kulesza:

Well, I think the biggest advice I give to everybody and sorry, that's Sissy, she has a

Kathi Kulesza:

strong opinion about this because she's seven and a half.

Wendy Green:

So she's so she's 49in human years.

Wendy Green:

Yeah.

Kathi Kulesza:

So she's up there, you know, in human years.

Kathi Kulesza:

So she's she's definitely feeling the pain of not being younger anymore.

Kathi Kulesza:

So, so you know, my, my advice to everyone is, is treat each person as an individual,

Kathi Kulesza:

get to know them because, you know, each person is very different.

Kathi Kulesza:

So it's funny when I when I think about boomers and then I look at the description of

Kathi Kulesza:

what like a Gen X is, I'm really on that cusp because like, I'm and you're very high

Kathi Kulesza:

tech also, like we're very high tech baby boomers.

Kathi Kulesza:

Most of my friends, I mean, they would have struggle getting onto a zoom call.

Kathi Kulesza:

You know, they certainly wouldn't be able to put people into a breakout room.

Kathi Kulesza:

They may not be able to get onto camera, you know, cameras.

Kathi Kulesza:

And they're the people I went to college with.

Kathi Kulesza:

Right. So so I think it's like you you're right now people are struggling hiring

Kathi Kulesza:

employees. Right.

Kathi Kulesza:

There's the maybe the great resignation, which has always been around.

Kathi Kulesza:

It's not like this is not a new problem.

Kathi Kulesza:

People have always, like silently resigned from jobs and quiet quitting.

Kathi Kulesza:

It's always been going on.

Kathi Kulesza:

We're just giving it a name now.

Kathi Kulesza:

The struggles we're having right now in the workforce have always been around it just

Kathi Kulesza:

look differently.

Kathi Kulesza:

There's always been a challenge to find good people.

Kathi Kulesza:

It maybe is a little bit more of a struggle now because of the pandemic.

Kathi Kulesza:

I've had people hit a reset button and rethink what they want to do in their lives.

Kathi Kulesza:

So, you know, unless you have a plethora of qualified people walking through your front

Kathi Kulesza:

door or coming through your your application process, you should be open to all people

Kathi Kulesza:

that are applying for jobs.

Kathi Kulesza:

And this happens. It doesn't happen just to age.

Kathi Kulesza:

It happens to nationality, right?

Kathi Kulesza:

I mean, last names are something people have an unconscious bias towards to, you know,

Kathi Kulesza:

they're they don't even realize they're doing it, but they're judging people based on

Kathi Kulesza:

their gender, their their their nationality or their diversity, their age.

Kathi Kulesza:

And as a hiring person, you want to do the best you can to not prejudge anything about

Kathi Kulesza:

that person, you know, age, gender or diversity because you need access to every

Kathi Kulesza:

potential candidate as possible.

Kathi Kulesza:

So I think it's, you know, do learn how to be a good interviewer, right?

Kathi Kulesza:

Learn how to do behavioral interviewing, get to know that person as a human, as a person,

Kathi Kulesza:

as a leader in that job, you're filling and be open because and the interesting thing

Kathi Kulesza:

too, is that they might be looking at boomers as well.

Kathi Kulesza:

You know, they're only going to be able to work like another five years.

Kathi Kulesza:

Well, guess what we know about millennials, they only like what do we know about

Kathi Kulesza:

millennials?

Wendy Green:

Tell me.

Kathi Kulesza:

Well, they like to stay in jobs only, like people say 18 months.

Kathi Kulesza:

So. Right.

Kathi Kulesza:

If you're you know, we already know millennials like a lot of fast paced change.

Kathi Kulesza:

They're probably about an 18 month to two year in a position.

Kathi Kulesza:

Well, if that's a concern for you with baby boomers, well, guess what?

Kathi Kulesza:

Your own generation is doing that same thing.

Kathi Kulesza:

So why not give boomers a chance for 1 or 2 years to contribute?

Kathi Kulesza:

And they bring this you know, they're seasoned professionals.

Kathi Kulesza:

They're most likely probably more emotionally balanced.

Kathi Kulesza:

You know, they've got more work experience.

Kathi Kulesza:

So they might be able to do a few more tasks, a few more jobs within your

Kathi Kulesza:

organization because they've already been there and done that.

Kathi Kulesza:

And if they only want to work two more years, who cares?

Kathi Kulesza:

I mean, that's what millennials are doing also.

Kathi Kulesza:

So give them a chance, you know?

Kathi Kulesza:

Um, yeah. So I don't know. I think it's really.

Kathi Kulesza:

But you know what? Here's the thing.

Kathi Kulesza:

We can't change people's mindsets, right?

Kathi Kulesza:

They have to be willing to look at their problems in a different way and be open to

Kathi Kulesza:

different solutions.

Kathi Kulesza:

And so that, you know, that takes curiosity.

Kathi Kulesza:

It takes it takes being open minded.

Kathi Kulesza:

It takes stepping back and maybe taking A500 zero foot view of your situation and taking

Kathi Kulesza:

yourself out of the day to day and rethinking the decisions you're making and

Kathi Kulesza:

how you're looking at potential candidates, you know, and just being open minded that the

Kathi Kulesza:

answers may not be the obvious answers that you always found in the past and that just

Kathi Kulesza:

look at each person as an individual and don't judge them based on all the things we

Kathi Kulesza:

typically judge people on which age is.

Wendy Green:

Right and that's lovely, and that's what they try and teach in the diversity equity and

Wendy Green:

inclusion courses.

Wendy Green:

And you know, hopefully some of it sticks.

Wendy Green:

But let's do a couple of scenarios.

Wendy Green:

Okay? Okay. So so I'm a manager.

Wendy Green:

I'm 69 and I have some zoomers working for me.

Wendy Green:

You know, like sometimes they show up, sometimes they don't.

Wendy Green:

Sometimes they call in sick when, you know, they're not really sick, you know, when

Wendy Green:

they're there, they're, they're do a good job, but they're also have a very

Wendy Green:

entrepreneurial mindset, like they want to do it their way.

Wendy Green:

Yeah. So what's a what's the best approach for me to manage zoomers or young millennials

Wendy Green:

in that kind of situation?

Wendy Green:

Yeah.

Kathi Kulesza:

So first of all, one thing we know about the younger generations is that their work needs

Kathi Kulesza:

to have meaning.

Kathi Kulesza:

So we want to make sure they know that they're contributing to something bigger than

Kathi Kulesza:

themselves. And it could even be making sure your organization contributes to something

Kathi Kulesza:

outside. So if you're not already doing work that's good for the community is how do you

Kathi Kulesza:

tie your organization to doing good in the world?

Kathi Kulesza:

Because you know, they are they like especially the the Gen Z, they are kind of

Kathi Kulesza:

going back to some more of the traditional values of being good citizens of of they're

Kathi Kulesza:

less likely to be the partiers that some of the older generations are.

Kathi Kulesza:

They're they're they're bringing back some of those traditional values.

Kathi Kulesza:

The other thing about the entrepreneurial spirit is so think about what does an

Kathi Kulesza:

entrepreneur need to know how to do.

Kathi Kulesza:

Right. What skills are they going to need if they really are going to go out and strike

Kathi Kulesza:

out on their own? How about you teach them business skills that will help them be an

Kathi Kulesza:

entrepreneur instead of instead of resisting it?

Kathi Kulesza:

Why don't you lean into it and say, okay, you want to be an entrepreneur?

Kathi Kulesza:

What's your goal? When do you want to have your own business?

Kathi Kulesza:

2 or 3 years. Well, let's give you some responsibilities that's going to build your

Kathi Kulesza:

business skills so that you can run a successful business when you're ready to

Kathi Kulesza:

invest in one and lean into what their priorities are in their life instead of

Kathi Kulesza:

resisting it. And who knows, you might actually develop, you know, a Gen Z who

Kathi Kulesza:

continues to contribute that entrepreneurial spirit as they learn how hard it is to have

Kathi Kulesza:

your own business. The money it takes if you want to have a franchise or whatever it is

Kathi Kulesza:

they're thinking, you know, they might stick around an extra year or two because now

Kathi Kulesza:

they're being developed and they're working for an organization that does good work or

Kathi Kulesza:

contributes to the community around them.

Kathi Kulesza:

You know, the the the future of the Gen Z's is not written.

Kathi Kulesza:

Right, right, right.

Kathi Kulesza:

It's just yeah, we don't know where they're going to end up in three years or four years.

Kathi Kulesza:

Right? So let's not just say, okay, they're going to work for a year and quit and go do

Kathi Kulesza:

their own thing. We don't know that.

Wendy Green:

Right. So and and by giving them those kinds of opportunities, Kathy, we're probably

Wendy Green:

building more loyalty in them as well, you know, and they feel respected, which I think

Wendy Green:

is really important to to the younger generations.

Wendy Green:

Yeah, good points.

Wendy Green:

So let's flip it now.

Wendy Green:

Okay. So I'm a boomer.

Wendy Green:

I'm 69. I'm starting this new job.

Wendy Green:

My boss is 40.

Wendy Green:

Right. And, you know, I mean, I'm glad that I'm working and feeling like I'm

Wendy Green:

contributing, but sometimes.

Wendy Green:

I just think that they're either micromanaging me or they don't get it.

Wendy Green:

And, you know, and I'm not sure how to approach them without making them feel

Wendy Green:

intimidated or uncomfortable.

Wendy Green:

What's your advice on that?

Wendy Green:

So this is.

Kathi Kulesza:

The hardest part for anyone that wants to communicate with the boss.

Kathi Kulesza:

So I think, first of all, you have to make a decision of, you know, and so one of my

Kathi Kulesza:

favorite books is The Seven Habits of Highly Effective People by Stephen Covey.

Kathi Kulesza:

So you have to make a decision on whether or not you want to try to fix it or not, Right?

Kathi Kulesza:

Because fixing it means you have to be open to having a conversation with them that is

Kathi Kulesza:

respectful and assertive and and you run the risk of getting some resistance, right.

Kathi Kulesza:

So you have to really think through, okay, what do I want and do I want to do the work

Kathi Kulesza:

to develop a relationship with this person who's a younger, you know, and think about

Kathi Kulesza:

myself. When I was in my 40s, you know, I was pretty well established.

Kathi Kulesza:

I was knowledgeable.

Kathi Kulesza:

So think about where you were in your 40 seconds.

Kathi Kulesza:

You worked your butt off.

Kathi Kulesza:

You know, you have accepted the fact that this is this is work, right?

Kathi Kulesza:

It's not as glamorous as you thought it was going to be.

Kathi Kulesza:

You know, you've got responsibilities.

Kathi Kulesza:

You know, you've got bills to pay.

Kathi Kulesza:

You've got demands pulling at you put yourself in their shoes and think, okay, you

Kathi Kulesza:

know, do I want to do the work to develop a better relationship or can I accept the

Kathi Kulesza:

situation as it is, right, accept it for what it is?

Kathi Kulesza:

And so if you decide you want to do the work to have those those communications, then

Kathi Kulesza:

you've got to pull from every book that you've read about being assertive and

Kathi Kulesza:

communication and and talk to that person.

Kathi Kulesza:

And the best approach it's so simple is instead of telling them what they're doing,

Kathi Kulesza:

like using you language, like you micromanage me, you're always checking in on

Kathi Kulesza:

me. You're hovering, you're like a helicopter boss.

Kathi Kulesza:

Instead, you just say, Hey, I wanted to share with you.

Kathi Kulesza:

I just saw Nona. You're 61.

Kathi Kulesza:

Yes, Nona is is.

Kathi Kulesza:

You want to say, Look, here's how I want to share with you how I work best.

Kathi Kulesza:

And I want to share with you how I'm feeling, you know, in this job, because I

Kathi Kulesza:

still feel vital and I still want to contribute and I want to make you look better

Kathi Kulesza:

as a boss. And so here's how I can do that best.

Kathi Kulesza:

If you if you're able to give me a little autonomy and we can set up maybe a regular

Kathi Kulesza:

schedule of check ins.

Kathi Kulesza:

So you feel comfortable that I'm doing what you need me to do, I know that with a little

Kathi Kulesza:

autonomy, I can be much more productive and I want to be able to develop a relationship

Kathi Kulesza:

with you where, you know, you can trust me to do the work, and you don't have to feel

Kathi Kulesza:

like you're checking in on me all the time.

Kathi Kulesza:

So you do it from I language and you tell them how you best work and how they can.

Kathi Kulesza:

And but here's the other thing is if you aren't committed to making them look good,

Kathi Kulesza:

then you should just accept the job for what it is and try not to, because you have to be

Kathi Kulesza:

authentically. You have to want to make them successful as your boss.

Kathi Kulesza:

Because now you're the employee, right?

Kathi Kulesza:

Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, so and that's part of and I think that's what boomers we can bring

Kathi Kulesza:

because we came up with the generation of the bosses, the boss, you do it.

Kathi Kulesza:

The boss said, because the boss is the boss.

Kathi Kulesza:

Now we've evolved.

Kathi Kulesza:

But the reality is that idea that we had, you know, like my first job was August 18th,

Kathi Kulesza:

1978, you know, is, you know, the boss of the boss and they're in charge if you can

Kathi Kulesza:

take that part of who we were and and then and be willing to make your boss successful

Kathi Kulesza:

and help them know how you can make them more successful, you can find a good

Kathi Kulesza:

relationship with them.

Kathi Kulesza:

And but you have to be not lecturae not judgy because they're already thinking you're

Kathi Kulesza:

like that with them.

Kathi Kulesza:

So you have to raise that idea, right?

Kathi Kulesza:

Because they already think, Oh, this person, it's intimidating because they've got all

Kathi Kulesza:

this life experience and you know, they probably do this job better than me.

Kathi Kulesza:

So think about what they're thinking about.

Kathi Kulesza:

You, right?

Wendy Green:

Yeah. Yeah. No, that's really that's really good advice, I think.

Wendy Green:

And and you're right.

Wendy Green:

I mean, if once you're not the boss to try to make your boss look good, that's what you

Wendy Green:

wanted your employees to do for you, right?

Wendy Green:

If you had an employee that was antagonizing you and and trying to undermine you.

Wendy Green:

That was. That never worked.

Wendy Green:

No, no, no, no. Made a comment here, which I think is great.

Wendy Green:

She says her publisher said, Are you open to feedback?

Wendy Green:

That could be another way to approach.

Wendy Green:

And I think, though, you have to be careful with that in that you're not coming in as the

Wendy Green:

parent or the older and wiser.

Wendy Green:

You know, you're you're saying feedback so that I can be a better employee.

Wendy Green:

Yeah.

Kathi Kulesza:

So it's about and when you use language like I noticed I observed I would probably stay

Kathi Kulesza:

away from the word concerned if you're not the boss.

Kathi Kulesza:

You know I overheard I'm feeling so now when you use I language you use you are opening it

Kathi Kulesza:

up for two way conversation.

Kathi Kulesza:

When you say you did this or you're doing that or you're acting as if that is more of

Kathi Kulesza:

an aggressive approach in what that does is is it basically will close down the

Kathi Kulesza:

communication because now the person is going to get defensive because it sounds like

Kathi Kulesza:

you're blaming them.

Kathi Kulesza:

So when you use I language, you're opening it up for like welcoming and it's a great way

Kathi Kulesza:

to do it is to say you know I'm feeling you could say something like this if you feel

Kathi Kulesza:

like you're being micromanaged instead of saying micromanage, you could say, you know,

Kathi Kulesza:

I'm I'm feeling as though you may not trust me because of the amount of times that you're

Kathi Kulesza:

checking in on my work.

Kathi Kulesza:

You know, are you feeling as if you can't trust me?

Kathi Kulesza:

Because that's what I'm feeling like that you can't trust me.

Kathi Kulesza:

So now you're telling them what you're feeling, but you're not telling them it's

Kathi Kulesza:

because of their fault.

Kathi Kulesza:

You're just asking a question.

Kathi Kulesza:

And then that gives them an opportunity to say, Oh, no, no, I totally trust you because

Kathi Kulesza:

that person just may not have learned to let go yet, right?

Kathi Kulesza:

They may not have learned to fully delegate.

Kathi Kulesza:

It may be a skill they don't have yet.

Kathi Kulesza:

So you give them an opportunity to learn about how you feel about their management

Kathi Kulesza:

style in and it may open them up to considering different different ideas or

Kathi Kulesza:

different approaches.

Wendy Green:

Good advice.

Wendy Green:

So in your talks, Kathy, you have a topic called Apology Free Leadership.

Wendy Green:

What do you mean by that?

Kathi Kulesza:

So originally I was thinking about us women because we show up and we hesitate to get

Kathi Kulesza:

involved in conversations.

Kathi Kulesza:

You know, this is our generation, You know, like you walk into, you know, there's ten

Kathi Kulesza:

people having conversation and two of them are women and eight of them are men.

Kathi Kulesza:

And it's intimidating.

Kathi Kulesza:

And it's like, oh, you know, excuse me, I had an idea.

Kathi Kulesza:

Or you'll go up to somebody and ask them to do something.

Kathi Kulesza:

You know, I'm really sorry to ask you for this or somebody will say, you know, Hey, you

Kathi Kulesza:

did a really good job on that.

Kathi Kulesza:

And you'll be like, Oh, that project, it was no big deal.

Kathi Kulesza:

And the best analogy I have for this is when they say, Hey, I really love your outfit.

Kathi Kulesza:

And you're like, Oh, this old thing, I got it at Ross for $10, you know?

Kathi Kulesza:

So it's like we women, we hesitate to take credit for the hard work that we do.

Kathi Kulesza:

We brush it off.

Kathi Kulesza:

We we kind of apologize or give disclaimers when we want to give our input.

Kathi Kulesza:

And, you know, one one piece of advice I have when you're getting credit or somebody

Kathi Kulesza:

complimenting you is that person is taking the time to recognize and acknowledge your

Kathi Kulesza:

work. And when you tell them, Oh, that project not a big deal, you're basically

Kathi Kulesza:

dismissing their like recognition of you and you're telling them almost like they're

Kathi Kulesza:

wrong. And really the best thing you could do is say to that person, Thank you so much

Kathi Kulesza:

for acknowledging that work.

Kathi Kulesza:

Because you know what? It was a lot of work.

Kathi Kulesza:

And I really I just I'm so grateful that you noticed because I did put a lot into that.

Kathi Kulesza:

And I'm proud of what I did, you know?

Kathi Kulesza:

But I think as women, we sometimes see pride as arrogance.

Kathi Kulesza:

But it's not Pride is just pride, right?

Kathi Kulesza:

Pride is just, you know, just being okay with the fact that we work our butts off and

Kathi Kulesza:

we contribute.

Kathi Kulesza:

Now, what I've found is that apology free leadership actually does make sense for men

Kathi Kulesza:

and women. And so although it was it was kind of the birth of it was this idea of how

Kathi Kulesza:

women sometimes show up apologizing for our presence.

Kathi Kulesza:

Really, what it's about now today is as a leader, if you develop good quality, trusting

Kathi Kulesza:

and respectful relationships with your team, with your direct reports, with your peers,

Kathi Kulesza:

when the chips are down and you need to like bark an order out or ask somebody to do

Kathi Kulesza:

something and there's no time to discuss the why, but they know because you have this

Kathi Kulesza:

relationship with them that they will follow you off the edge of a cliff.

Kathi Kulesza:

You don't have to apologize asking somebody to do something because they they trust you

Kathi Kulesza:

and they know if you're asking that, you're asking for a reason.

Kathi Kulesza:

And they are not as like, um, not as likely to be like, oh, gosh, here she goes again.

Kathi Kulesza:

You know, because they trust you and they know, you know, if you're having a bad moment

Kathi Kulesza:

that overall, most of the time you're a really great boss.

Kathi Kulesza:

So it just gives you a little bit more space to have a bad day or to be able to give an

Kathi Kulesza:

order or ask something of somebody when there is no time to explain it all and

Kathi Kulesza:

they'll just do it because of that relationship you have with them.

Kathi Kulesza:

So apologies for leadership is leading in a way that you don't have to apologize every

Kathi Kulesza:

time you ask somebody to do something or, you know, they they know that normally you're

Kathi Kulesza:

a really great boss. And today you must have like, had some bad traffic or you spilled

Kathi Kulesza:

your coffee on your lap.

Kathi Kulesza:

And, you know, overall, you're a great person.

Kathi Kulesza:

So it's not having to apologize every time.

Wendy Green:

So would you apologize after that, though?

Wendy Green:

I had a bad day.

Wendy Green:

I yelled at you to do that.

Wendy Green:

It's not never apologizing.

Wendy Green:

No.

Kathi Kulesza:

And actually, one of the most powerful things we can do and I don't remember what decade I

Kathi Kulesza:

learned this in, but it's like a super it's like a magic wand is when you actually admit

Kathi Kulesza:

when you screwed up to somebody and you say, look.

Kathi Kulesza:

And this is something also I think I learned from Stephen Covey is the willingness to

Kathi Kulesza:

accept responsibility for your actions and eventually you want to control your response

Kathi Kulesza:

to things. But let's be honest, you know, you didn't eat breakfast traffic was bad.

Kathi Kulesza:

You're late for a meeting.

Kathi Kulesza:

You know, you walk in the door and I was in hospitality.

Kathi Kulesza:

You get a guest complaint the second you walk in the door.

Kathi Kulesza:

Three people called out sick, you know, and you don't feel well, you know, I mean, not

Kathi Kulesza:

everything's always great.

Kathi Kulesza:

And so you're having a bad day.

Kathi Kulesza:

And you do treat somebody in a way that, you know, you didn't control your response to a

Kathi Kulesza:

situation. It was like the last, you know, the straw that broke the camel's back, the

Kathi Kulesza:

ability and willingness to go to that person and say, you know what, I'm so sorry.

Kathi Kulesza:

I know I was short with you earlier.

Kathi Kulesza:

You know, I should not have treated you like that.

Kathi Kulesza:

And I really apologize.

Kathi Kulesza:

You deserve better.

Kathi Kulesza:

That is like magic.

Kathi Kulesza:

But not everybody's willing to do that.

Kathi Kulesza:

Right? But if you're willing to do that, it can it can really be the solution to having

Kathi Kulesza:

those trusting relationships, because now the person knows that you don't really mean

Kathi Kulesza:

to do that. It's just, you know, I'm just I had a bad morning and I'm sorry you got my

Kathi Kulesza:

wrath. And that wasn't fair.

Kathi Kulesza:

And please forgive me for that.

Kathi Kulesza:

So, yeah, you still need to apologize.

Kathi Kulesza:

It doesn't mean you don't apologize.

Kathi Kulesza:

It just means that more times than not, you can lead without having to ask permission or

Kathi Kulesza:

apologize for giving somebody some crappy piece of work to do.

Kathi Kulesza:

You know, and because you're leading with with strong relationships and with integrity

Kathi Kulesza:

and you're somebody that people trust.

Kathi Kulesza:

Yeah.

Wendy Green:

Makes a lot of sense.

Wendy Green:

So takeaways we've talked about like intergenerational, we've talked about being a

Wendy Green:

leader. We've talked about leading both ways.

Wendy Green:

What would be 2 or 3 takeaways that you would like to leave the audience with today,

Wendy Green:

working from boomers to Zoomers.

Kathi Kulesza:

So I think and I learned this from my nieces is when you look at children, they look at

Kathi Kulesza:

the world through lenses that have no preconceived ideas.

Kathi Kulesza:

They are just curious about everything.

Kathi Kulesza:

And, you know, the age of 61, I know a lot.

Kathi Kulesza:

And sometimes I look at the lenses that I have created through a lifetime of

Kathi Kulesza:

experiences. But when I sit with them, like they just see the world all as new, right?

Kathi Kulesza:

So if you can try to take off your lenses, right, and and look at the world through that

Kathi Kulesza:

lens of curiosity and don't assume you know why something's happening, but start to ask,

Kathi Kulesza:

you know, what's going on here, you know, And instead of judging the person, think

Kathi Kulesza:

think. The question you want to ask is what's happening with that person right now?

Kathi Kulesza:

That this is how they're showing up?

Kathi Kulesza:

And if you're a leader, your responsibility is to help put them in a position where they

Kathi Kulesza:

can contribute more greatly and they can be more successful.

Kathi Kulesza:

And, you know, as a leader, if somebody is failing on your team, it's probably something

Kathi Kulesza:

that you can influence so own the results that that person's getting.

Kathi Kulesza:

So I think curiosity is a number one thing.

Kathi Kulesza:

And I and I think the other thing I like to say is just being a little bit more human.

Kathi Kulesza:

I think sometimes what I hear from managers is supervisors and leaders and more managers,

Kathi Kulesza:

supervisors is that they're they're worried about being too nice.

Kathi Kulesza:

And I think actually that's something you can be hold people accountable and you can be

Kathi Kulesza:

nice, You can be a human and hold people accountable.

Kathi Kulesza:

So don't think that managing means you're not human.

Kathi Kulesza:

So we have these humans that have been through.

Kathi Kulesza:

We're in a three year anniversary, right, of the greatest probably impact of our

Kathi Kulesza:

generation on work and life and choices.

Kathi Kulesza:

You know, look at the human first and ask yourself, how can I help that human?

Kathi Kulesza:

And when you do that, they're going to think, how can I help my boss be more

Kathi Kulesza:

successful? Um, that's only two.

Kathi Kulesza:

Is that good? Two takeaways.

Wendy Green:

That's we know.

Wendy Green:

That's brilliant. Actually, because curiosity, I think, underpins everything that

Wendy Green:

you've talked about, being curious about why they are the way they are, why you are the

Wendy Green:

way they are. You are, you know, look at your own internal biases too, and listening,

Wendy Green:

being human. Yeah.

Wendy Green:

And I think that is hard for especially for new managers a lot of times because they

Wendy Green:

think, you know, they can't be their friend anymore.

Wendy Green:

Right? So how can I be nice?

Kathi Kulesza:

But and I have to know everything.

Kathi Kulesza:

But you don't. You don't.

Kathi Kulesza:

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Wendy Green:

That's great. Well, Kathy, this has been such a great conversation.

Wendy Green:

Thank you so much.

Wendy Green:

Let me show people how they could get in touch with you if they have questions, if

Wendy Green:

they want to ask you to come consult with them.

Wendy Green:

If they want you to come speak to an organization they have, you can email Kathy

Wendy Green:

at Kathy. Kathy at Kathy speaks.com and she has a website of the same name Kathy

Wendy Green:

Kathy speaks.com so check her out at both places and show her some love.

Wendy Green:

Invite her to come speak.

Wendy Green:

So thanks, Kathy.

Wendy Green:

Thank you.

Kathi Kulesza:

Wendy. I love what you're doing here.

Kathi Kulesza:

And us boomers need people like you out leading the way so we can continue to

Kathi Kulesza:

contribute so meaningfully, you know, because we are the generation that's going to

Kathi Kulesza:

help support the newer generations to be able to do their best work.

Kathi Kulesza:

And so we have to show up, you know, and take all the advice and all the wisdom that

Kathi Kulesza:

you're sharing with all your guests so that we can help lift them up because they are the

Kathi Kulesza:

future.

Wendy Green:

Yes, they are. Thank you, Kathy.

Wendy Green:

Um, let me just remind all of you that are listening about the vitality assessment that

Wendy Green:

you can download from the Hey Boomer Biz website and how you can also, I told you I

Wendy Green:

have the two new cohorts coming up in April for the what's next coaching.

Wendy Green:

So if you are struggling.

Wendy Green:

Dealing with figuring out what you're going to do next and how you're going to continue

Wendy Green:

to contribute. Because like Kathy said, we still have a big responsibility to the

Wendy Green:

younger generation too, and contributing to our community.

Wendy Green:

So check in with, Hey, Boomer Biz slash coaching and schedule a complimentary call.

Wendy Green:

Let's just chat about what the next chapter might look like for you.

Wendy Green:

And finally, do not forget our sponsor road scholar.org/hey Boomer, they love it when

Wendy Green:

they see the slash hey Boomer because it lets them know that we're talking about them

Wendy Green:

and that we're promoting them.

Wendy Green:

So please go ahead and check out road scholar.org/hey Boomer.

Wendy Green:

So next week we're staying on an intergenerational theme next week, but next

Wendy Green:

week we're going to be talking to two organizations who are passionate about

Wendy Green:

climate action.

Wendy Green:

The first one is an impact campaign called Can You Hear Us?

Wendy Green:

And it was inspired by the I am Greta, you know, Greta Thunberg to ignite collective

Wendy Green:

climate action.

Wendy Green:

They mobilize intergenerational communities to reframe our relationship with each other

Wendy Green:

and with the planet.

Wendy Green:

And the other organization that will be joining us is called Elders Climate Action

Wendy Green:

Org, and that's an organization of thousands of elder climate activists all committed to a

Wendy Green:

nonpartisan effort to end the climate crisis and build a just and sustainable future for

Wendy Green:

our children, our grandchildren, and for all children.

Wendy Green:

So it should be a really interesting conversation.

Wendy Green:

And I always like to leave you with the belief that we can all live with passion,

Wendy Green:

live with relevance, and live with courage.

Wendy Green:

And remember that you are never too old to set another goal or dream a new dream.

Wendy Green:

My name is Wendy Green, and this has been.