Foreign.

You're listening to the Master Passive Income Podcast Network.

Welcome to the Master Passive Income Show.

My name is Dustin Heiner, and I'm here to help you get financial independence, create generational wealth, and never work a job again by investing in real estate.

And in today's show, we're going to be talking all about creative financing, how you can buy real estate with very little money down.

In fact, you could even take over the loan that somebody already has, and they'll be glad to give it to you if you do it right.

And I bring in on a friend of mine who's going to walk us through how we can do this entire process and how you can do it as well.

All right, let's start the show.

Welcome to the Master Passive Income Podcast, where we talk about investing in real estate with a special focus on making enough money so you can quit your job and live the dream life.

And now, here is your host, Dustin Heiner.

What's up?

What's up?

Super blessed as always to have you here with me on the show.

And I am so excited about creative financing and how you can buy real estate with very little money down.

And like I said in the quick intro, my goodness, there are ways that you can help some sellers.

Hear me right.

You help a seller by getting them out of a problem that they are in.

Let's say a seller has a property and they're going through a divorce or their grandma dies or something happens where the house is actually a burden for them, where they can't make the mortgage payments or they really just need to get out of it because they're moving to another state.

These people, they have homes.

They're not like us.

They're not a lot of people like us.

In fact, in my personal circle, you know, friends and people I see at the gym, nobody invests in real estate.

And so when you think about people selling their home, you and I think, well, man, why don't you turn it into a rental?

Why don't you put it, you know, Airbnb, Why don't you do something with it to make money?

Most people don't think like that.

You and I, we are different.

We see opportunity where people see problems, and we.

When you have that perspective, how can I help another person get out of a problem?

Then I kid you not, you are absolutely going to win.

And so when you're doing creative financing, and this is what this episode's all about today, creative financing, you're able to buy properties with very little to, if not no money down now we do this all the time.

Now the key is to finding the right property.

We're going to be talking all about that and also how to structure structuring your deal to help the seller.

You want to help the seller get out of a problem that they have themselves in.

And like I was just saying, with creative financing you might even take over their loan and put it into your name.

You might even have them do seller financing or they're, they're carrying the note or they're paying part of the down payment with the, the seller carry.

There are many different ways, but we're going to be talking a lot about how we can find the right properties because that's the hardest part, hardest part is finding the right properties.

And the second part is how do we structure the deal.

Now with all this structuring, with all the insights, there are many, many ways to do it.

In fact, I'm creating a brand new course for everybody who is in the Wealth Builder membership that I have.

The, the group coaching and all the one on one coaching students will get as well.

I'm creating a creative financing course that has, subject to seller financing, private money deals, all, all the different ways that you can use to get properties with very little if not no money out of your pocket.

And I'm going to unveil that to them.

So they're going to get all of the insights and education on how to do it and start implementing that into their business.

Because I've always taught them, hey, we save money and we all buy properties.

That's, that's only one way.

That's not all the only way.

There's many, many other ways.

We can also use other people's money.

We get DSCR loans, the debt service coverage ratio loans, we get private money lenders, we even get signature loans.

I've even used a credit card.

I've used a credit card, seriously, no joke, used a credit card to buy real estate with a cash advance.

These are all advanced strategies.

They're not easy at all.

You have to learn this.

But it's simple, it's really, really not that hard as long as you have the right steps.

So if you're in the Wealth Builders membership, you will absolutely get access to this new course that I'm creating.

And I want you to also realize that, that I was sending just a little bit ago, that you and I, we're not like everybody else in the world.

Most people want to work their lives, sadly I'm gonna say it really kind of harsh way, work their lives away for somebody else and then retire at 70 years old and try to live on 40% of what they managed to save that entire time working at job, that just over broke job and then try to enjoy life.

Well, I quit my job when I was 37 years old because I invest in real estate.

And even though I have been investing in real estate for so long, I created Master Passive Income because I wanted to be around other people and talk to other people that are investing because I don't have anybody in my circle of friends that invest in real estate now.

They start to as soon as they realize that I invest and they were like, oh, I want to learn.

And so I, I help them out and coach them.

And this is another reason why I have Master Passive Income is so I can meet so many other investors like you.

Meet you well, help you, number one.

That'd be great if I could help you.

But if you're listening as you're like, hey man, I invest better than Dustin, like, shoot, I need to be hanging out with you.

And so I'm all about how do we win?

How do we all win in our real estate investing?

And I just got back from Tanzania on our African safari.

I brought 17 real estate investors on a adventure mastermind.

Like it was so amazing, this adventure mastermind.

For 10 days we were all together doing just so many amazing things.

Seeing black rhinos, seeing giraffes, elephants, leopards, cheetahs, lions.

Like, we saw so many amazing things.

But that's not the big thing about the African safari that we went on.

What I loved was as I was talking to everybody after each day, I just got back last night, like literally just got back.

So it's so fresh in my mind.

I'll start posting things on Instagram about the trip because we didn't have much cell phone signal back then or over there.

So if you want to follow me on Instagram to see all that stuff, go to Instagram, find me the Dustin Heiner.

Follow me on there.

I'm over 200000 followers now, which is super fun.

But as I'm talking to everybody at the end of the day, like, what is your favorite thing about this trip so far?

What is your favorite?

And I'm just asking everybody know it could be the black rhino or that cheetah cub that jumped onto one our jeeps and was like playing with the atana or biting the tire, didn't pop it or anything.

A lion would.

But a cheetah doesn't have the strength or the size or seeing all These elephants fighting and playing and all that sort of stuff.

That's what they were saying.

And then I told them, this is what I told them.

My favorite thing was not all that those are great, but my favorite thing is seeing every single one of you talking to each other, masterminding, brainstorming, even connecting, getting breakthroughs.

You're like, oh, my goodness, that's how you do it.

I'm gonna do it as well.

In the car ride, we are always talking together and growing together.

It was so amazing, the friendships.

We came together as strangers.

We left as best friends, almost a family because of the amazing time that we had.

And honestly, the type of people that come to my events, they're a reflection of everybody else that listens to this podcast.

So you listen to this podcast.

People that come to Rubecon, my conference, it's now income building live people that come to my events, they're just like you.

We're regular, everyday people that want to invest in real estate.

And I want you to come hang out with me and be a part of my personal Mastermind.

So in September 19th through the 22nd in Denver, Colorado, I'm going to be bringing my personal mastermind, Tom Sylvester, Adam Carroll and Michael Kwan.

All four of us are going to be doing our mastermind.

We do this once a year, get together for two or three days, and we mastermind together.

And I was talking, I said, hey, we're going to be in Denver.

How about we invite some investors and we.

And mastermind all of us together.

So my personal, personal mastermind, we're going to be mastermind for the first two days and then we're opening up to other people.

We only have spots.

I think we only have 12 spots total.

We only have a few left.

And we're inviting, if you are an investor and you think and believe that you want to grow, get around the right people, this is the way to do it.

Come hang out with me at my private mastermind in Denver.

The link will be in the description.

Masterpassiveincome.com mastermind it's.

It's much cheaper if you bring two people so that you, let's say you and your business partner or your spouse comes.

I definitely want you to invest in real estate and you need to get into the right room.

I came off African Safari, had such a blast.

I'm doing all over again because I knew how, or know how amazing it is to become a investor with other people that are doing it with you.

And I also told you that I spent $50,000 in February to join another mastermind that I'm a part of.

And I, I spent $50,000 because I knew I did not want to be the smartest person in the room.

I needed to.

Instead of spending my time to work my way into that room, which is what I did for my entire life, I'm realizing I could always make more money.

I could always make more money.

What I want to do right now is use my money to help me save my time.

Buying back my time.

I can't make more time, but I can make more money.

So if I pay a little bit of money now, it's going to exponentially grow me and you know, in life and in business and I'm buying back my time, the one commodity that I will never ever be able to make more of.

And same with you.

So you want to be in the right room.

This is going to catapult you into so much better investing.

And this is event is about you connecting with other people.

Connect with me, my other own personal mastermind.

That's just fantastic.

All these guys are great.

And get you to the next level.

So go to masterpassiveincome.com forward/mastermind.

And every year whenever we do a mastermind, use this same link.

You'll see the next mastermind that we're doing.

And honestly we're almost sold out.

All the people from Africa, I don't say all majority of the people from Africa, they're like I got to get more and they're coming too.

So you want to be here with us.

Don't put it off.

You are only delaying your success to even greater heights in your real estate investing, where you're scaling, where you're financially independent.

And that's what masterminds can do for you is to get you to that next level.

Plus you're going to be with me.

I don't do one on one coaching ever anymore because I just don't have the time anymore.

And so this is a way for you to get with me and be with me for two and a half days of intense amazingness.

I'm going to use that word, amazingness just like in Africa.

Now in today's show I'm bringing on a friend of mine who has been doing subject to basically taking over the property mortgage and the property tenants move out or even stay in there and rent it back to you.

But we take over property subject to the current mortgage.

And this is creative financing.

He's going to show us how he's been doing it for a Long time.

And even a very creative way to make sure that you don't have any problems with title, which, you know, the ownership of the property and the mortgage, the current mortgage that's on there.

A very creative way that most people aren't doing to.

To make sure that your property is not gonna be taken away by the bank or have any problems.

And I'm super pumped to bring on my friend Chris Fontaine, who's gonna show us how we can invest in real estate creatively with subject to.

All right, here we go.

Chris Prefontaine, thank you so much for being on the show.

It's awesome to be here, buddy.

Good to hang out with you again.

And I love how you open, saying, help people leave their W2.

Escape the.

Escape the handcuffs.

Well, it's all about freedom, right?

Right.

I mean, real estate hopefully makes you money.

If you're doing it right, it's going to make you money every single month.

And then you get financial freedom, which then leads into time freedom because you can quit your job, but just freedom in general.

What, like, what are your thoughts about that?

Yeah, yeah.

What?

This guy's name popped in my head as soon as you said that.

This guy Rick, he's not far from me.

He worked for the government 30 freaking 30 years.

He tried wholesaling, flipping, and rightfully so, it became like, oh, shit.

It's like, I gotta do a deal to get paid.

Right.

So it's hard to transition.

Hit 180 employees under him.

So he's with us now, long story short.

And he.

His lifestyle is totally different because he's come on board.

He's got like, I think he's approaching a million dollars in.

In all paydays with us.

And now he coaches and.

And it is lifestyle.

To your point.

That's whose name popped in my head when you said that, because he made decent money, but he's like, okay, I'm in my 60s.

I'm going to get crushed in retirement.

And then he came with us and just crushed his salary.

So lifestyle, that is.

That's terrific.

I love seeing students change their lives and be, like, financially independent, have a different lifestyle.

I have so many students too, just like you, that have become coaches here at Master Passive Income as well.

So it's just great seeing people's lives change.

Now I want to.

I want to ask you, like, since you're a real estate investor just like me, there are a lot of people that, you know on TikTok and Instagram, like, after one or two deals, they start charging hey, we're gonna charge you for coaching and services and everything.

And, and that's where they make their money.

Whereas you and I, we're real estate investors.

I, I've been investing since 2006, just bought property after property.

Eventually I had enough properties not work.

But then I keep buying properties.

Like we just got a 375 unit apartment complex.

We're buying it, so we buy properties.

So I have an idea of what I'm seeing in the market.

Interest rates and prices, all that sort of stuff.

What are you seeing in the real estate market right now, market in general?

That I would.

I will comment on your coaching comment.

I.

Okay, so it's really interesting because people always want to say the market, right?

And you and I know like there's not the market.

If it's that easy, be easy to predict things.

Like I have, we have students in all those markets.

So like Florida, I'm overwhelmingly, I'm hearing is softer.

Okay.

Then there's other markets that are still cranking.

So there's, there's sub markets.

Right.

So I think the point is this.

When you, it's one constant, real estate, it constantly changes.

So when you are in the creative mode, like you and I, because I know we talked about on your show, you are psyched when things change and things are uncertain and things.

Because you just, you're gonna do deals.

It's just a matter of what deals and what pond you're fishing in.

And I think creative real estate does that.

But like right across the board.

When I came out of the crash in 08, I.

I was dead set traditional raise money or go sign on bank loans, even worse.

And, and now, and it was very like, oh, the, the crash is here.

Well, now it's like my wife will say to me all the time, we've been married 39 years, she still says, well, how's that going to affect you?

How's that going to affect you?

And I say the more change, the better for creative real estate.

Because people need a guide.

They go, ah, because the media screaming the wrong thing usually, right?

And then they need the URI to go, here's how you fix it, here's how you massage it.

And you're right with, I definitely agree with you.

And on top of that, like you said the very beginning, there's different markets everywhere, every submarket, different cities are even in right next to each other can be different and better or worse.

And so what are you seeing right now with your students and all your investing and what.

Well, for first Share everybody.

What's the business model like?

I love residential affordance and below, long term, short term, midterm, co living.

That's my bread and butter.

So easy to do.

But what is the business model that you have in what markets do you like right now?

Yeah, I start as far as teaching with the community members.

I start with single.

But what we do, you can buy any asset class.

I bought my commercial building this way multis, doesn't matter.

But the reason I start with singles is I, you know, the shiny object syndrome.

If I have a room of 200 people at an event and I start saying we can do this one and you can do this one and this one.

When they're brand new, they're going to go out.

I got them done.

So I do focus on singles at first with them because I know it's a sure bet and then they can do whatever they want after that.

I am seeing this as far as a trend right now.

It's a really cool list actually, since I talked to you.

So we have this list service now that we've always pulled from, but they have a really cool distress list.

And the distress list kind of precedes any mortgage issues because these are metrics.

Like are they a little late on their auto?

Are they a little late on their credit cards?

Did they make one late?

But then they got the mortgage back.

Like that's trending to, oh, shoot, my mortgage is probably going to be next.

Yeah.

And those numbers are astronomically high right now compared to foreclosures.

Now foreclosures are trending.

Not great either, but that's not great.

In which way?

Like more foreclosures?

Yeah, I mean it's trending that way.

Yeah.

But these distress is so high and I think it's going to drive a lot of those foreclosures.

So we're working that list now.

It's actually fun because you know, you can help so many people.

You just know.

And it's a win, win.

Right.

Well, that's the name of the game, I believe.

And same as you in real estate investing actually, honestly, in life in general.

If you figure out ways to serve other people, help other people get them what they want.

My goodness.

So they are going to thank you up and down for buying a house, let's say 60, 65% of the market value because they're getting out of a bind and you're helping them.

I mean there's so many ways to make it a win, win, win all around for everybody.

You just have to be Creative, like you were saying, gotta be creative in doing that.

Now what markets do you find are right now that are really good?

And I want to pause for just a quick second and say thank you so much for listening to the show.

If you've gotten anything out of the show, I would appreciate it if you went to anywhere that you listen to, say Apple or Spotify or wherever and leave a five star review.

Honestly, I really appreciate you leaving an honest review.

I just love giving all this information out and I want to see you succeed.

Also send this to one person.

Just tell one person, say, hey Doug, Justin wants to help a million people to invest in real estate.

You need to listen to this because it's going to change your life.

Lastly, get my real estate investment course completely for free.

Text the word rental.

R E N T A L rental to 33777 rental to 33777.

I'll literally give you my course showing you everything in the business so that you can become financially independent.

Gosh, they're all over the place, Dustin.

So I wouldn't say there's any bad market.

It's just that like honestly with, with Florida slipping like that, what I'm seeing on a negative side of things for our students is ton of people because that's the nature of Florida leaving.

They just bought six months ago and they have a 7% rate.

Well, that's.

It's a tough deal to do even with what we do.

So now a lot of those sellers are subsidizing those.

So I don't love that.

I love sort of the.

The flat is great.

The flat market.

The market going down is great.

As long as you're not catching people that just bought six months ago, there's no bad market.

What I mean by that is this.

When I said depends where you fish.

Like let me use covet.

So when Covid happened In March of 20, people were panicking and we took probably a record number of contracts, right?

But then the next month as you remember, everybody was selling.

So we no longer fished in the Fizbo pond.

That was stupid.

They were all selling.

So it just a matter what pond you fish in.

So if you're fishing in the distress pond right now, expired listings are going way up.

I like fishing in that pond.

So it doesn't matter what market, it's what pond we're fishing in within the market.

Does that make sense?

Sure does.

So how do you find the distress, like what list do you pull from?

Is there someplace that we can find that as well as the off market, you know, listings, they're the ones that came off the off that I can.

Share a link with you if you want or I can, I can give it to you later.

But the service that pulls that for us, yeah, they also pull our expireds are for rent by owner, our for sale by owner.

And then this, this distress list, they put all these.

I don't know where the metrics go into it, but I know some of what I mentioned, you know, and it's.

It'S working out like you're finding that that's an accurate list.

I love the lead so far.

Yeah, my VA, you know, VA's call for us.

And so I've already gotten some really cool leads.

I can just tell the nature, you know, the quality of when you're talking to people, they don't know, you know, that you're just buying in the area, but you can, you can feel it.

And so it comes out right away.

And some people are private and it comes out further in relationship.

So two questions that I want to ask you.

Number one, when you find you, you have this list, what's the best way to reach out as a phone call?

Is it direct mail?

That's number one.

But number two, how do you treat them when they call you back or they, you get them on the phone, how do you treat them so that you can show them that you're trying to help them out of a bind?

Yeah, it's awesome.

Okay, so the second piece, Let me talk script for us.

That's a cool nugget.

All the calls, all the calls are exactly what you said.

Trying to find out what goal they're trying to accomplish.

The market's not helping them with that.

Is a free and clear person.

It's not stressed.

Or if they're stressed with their problem, it's the same reason you or I or anyone else listening would go to auto body, dentist, attorney, if people go to me.

Well, how do you convince them?

Well, do you have to convince your.

Doctor or your attorney that you need, you know, you go there to solve a problem.

So we have to just be good question questioners.

If you were next door to me and I saw your sign go up, I'd ask the same three questions.

Hey, Dustin, I saw your sign go up.

Where are you going?

Well, I'm going to Florida.

Oh, cool.

When you have to be there by two months.

Got a job.

Reload.

Oh, wow.

Okay.

What if it.

So what if it doesn't sell?

Those are three questions because what if it doesn't sell?

You just get.

Now you get their story.

I don't care.

I'm going to stay.

No motivation.

Oh, no, it's gotta sell.

I gotta be in.

Oh, okay.

I can help, you know, so.

So that's.

That's.

That's how we script it every time.

That's a.

That's a fantastic series of questions.

But that last question is brilliant.

What if it doesn't sell?

Because you could tell their mentality or their mindset of what they need out of the property.

If they need a lot of money, they need to get out.

Getting divorced, whatever it might.

Because we do call critiques.

And I'll say to the student, why didn't you go further?

Well, no, they said they need all the money.

No kidding.

They want all the money.

Everybody wants all the money.

99.

You have to ask that question to tell you if it's worth following back up.

And I'm sorry, I get off.

What was your first question before that question?

Because I said I'd do it.

What's the best way?

When you have a list of buyers or sorry, sellers that you could potentially reach out to, what's the best way?

Maybe the number one direct mail or phone call.

Like, what's the best way to reach out to them?

Okay, so a little context why I'm going to answer this way.

When I came out of the crash, as you know, my story, I had no money and no credit, okay?

So I couldn't go, oh, let me hire some callers.

I had a call.

Then obviously I put in virtual assistants.

So all of our students, almost all of them that can afford it because it's not that expensive, they use virtual assistants to call for us.

So someone's calling my distress list, and then I'm getting just the lead sheet off of that.

So.

So these are people that said, either yes, please have them call me, or at least I.

All right, I'm open.

Have Dustin call me.

I want to talk to them.

That's fun.

That's.

That's the number one.

Because.

Because it's predictable.

I can give you.

Now, it's been 12 years with the.

With the coaching.

I can give you metrics, like, to the T.

If you go do this, a B will happen.

Right.

Second, though, I do like scattering very small.

I'm talking three to 500 pieces, not tens of thousands of dollars.

Postcard mailings, just to give variety to the lead flow.

So I'm never, like, stuck.

Like, oh, they shut this calling down.

I can't do anything.

Or they shut milling down.

I can't I want to make sure I have variety.

So I do.

Sprin, sprinkle those in.

Got it.

Now, I like the idea of the VA calling and just getting like a warm feel of what's going on in this.

And then, hey, can I have you talk with the man?

Do they say something like, let me talk.

Have you talk with my boss who will make the ultimate decision on how, how best we can help you out in the situation.

How does that work out?

Yeah.

And these VAs, though, see, people go to me, I'll be doing a strategy call with someone interested in our community.

They'll go, oh, I know, I, I know that you just hire these cheap VAs.

4 or 5 bucks.

Now, I said, no, like that's for flipping and wholesaling.

It works.

Mass scale, it works.

But with us, creative is a little different.

Like they gotta be trained.

So there's a team that's trained somewhere in the country, some out, but they know creative.

So the questions are different.

We're not trying to get it for 60 or 70 cents.

We don't have to.

We, I mean, if we do great, right.

They're stressed.

But to your point earlier, but all our deals aren't that.

So we're not trying to go in for that right away.

And so explain, explain to, to me in the audience, what do you mean by creative?

Yeah, purchasing.

So three ways for us, owner financing, specifically with free and clear sellers.

Because I can get principal only payments monthly.

That's zero interest.

Second, subject to is super cool right now because I'm seeing mortgages from a few years ago that are 2, 3, 4, 5% when rates aren't that right now we're buying them like monthly in the community.

So subject to existing mortgages.

And then lease purchase would be the third one because you don't own it, but you control it for 10 bucks.

I mean, it's magical, but you're going to get whacked on taxes and other accounting issues.

But those are the three ways we buy.

When I say creative, so I said in my book, is real estate on your terms?

I said on terms for years now.

The cool thing is everybody wants to talk about creative financing.

So that's all it is.

That's creative financing.

Well, because you and I have been in this.

I started back in 2000.

Well, investing personally back in 2006.

Started watching that and no one talked about then.

Yeah, yeah, definitely.

And I started buying real estate back then, but then also started coaching people like 2014, 2015, you know, and.

But like it's fun, funny and interesting.

Seeing people coming on social media now, putting lots of money in ads like, you know, show it, say, basically saying things that maybe they're really good at, maybe they're not, hopefully they're good at and helping their people, which I'm just going to benefit.

The doubt that they're doing a really good job with their, with their coaching.

But you and I have been doing this for years and years.

Very similar.

Yeah, so you brought that up twice.

I have to comment on it now.

You're going to get yourself in trouble, I promise you, if you're not dealing with someone like Dustin or myself and there's others, I'm not so naive to say it's me and you that have been through a few cycles, trust me, because we, we are going through them again and again and again.

And I will tell you in 08 and there's one other time, my whole career, the 34th year this year where I didn't have a mentor and all I had to do if I had one is go, hey, Dustin, what, what would you do now?

And I would have not had my head in the sand for four years, which is what I did.

I was just in a wall stage.

So please, please, please, whether it's me and Dustin, ever talked to you ever again in your lifetime, Find someone else that's been through at least two economic cycles and frankly, maybe a life event or two, because stuff happens to all of us and you need to lean on someone and go, what would you do next?

It's perspective that as obviously as you get older you get better perspective, but you just get experience perspective.

You can see all the things plus what's great about what we've done.

I've coached thousands of people.

I know you have too.

Like we've seen every single scenario, every single property type.

Like we've seen everything.

And so we've gone through it ourselves or we take it, somebody through it.

And so we know this is, these are your options and then this is the outcome of each one of these options if you go this route.

Because it's all the same in the end.

It's very simple.

Real estate investing is very, very simple.

It's not rocket science.

Anybody can do it.

Okay, so I got another question for you.

So with subject to.

That's, that's definitely.

A lot of people are talking about it.

Lots of, you know, people are spending lots of money on Instagram to show ads talking about subject to.

Now people somebody might be listening has never heard of subject to and they might be thinking, why would somebody sign over their home with a low interest rate and maybe not a huge, you know, balance.

Maybe it's.

It's pretty good.

Why would they ever do something like that?

I'll give you two real deals because the best way answering right.

Two.

That came to mind right when you said it.

No particular to one is ours.

One's a students.

That guy Rick can't do ours.

First house and resort area down by Cape Cod.

I'm in Rhode Island.

This is a mass.

Nice neighborhood.

Divorced couple, one on the deed, one on the mortgage.

Not amicable.

Fighting, living in different states.

We had it.

I only take credit.

Zach, who you're going to meet tomorrow.

Zach did this deal.

It's one of his earlier deals.

And they no matter what, wanted out.

Why?

Okay, we dug a little deeper.

They were $4,100, not too bad.

They got us in time.

4,100 in arrears.

So pissed off at each other.

Borrow on credit cards because they watched too many HDTV shows, fix up the house.

And the stipulation was because they weren't getting along.

The wife wanted out.

The husband said, yeah, but I got 12 grand in credit cards because of this house.

So we bought the house for the exact mortgage balance and 12 grand of credit card debt.

We paid installments quarterly because we weren't going to give them that much cash up front.

And we caught them up 4,100 bucks.

Now they did that to relieve all that stress.

And then just to give you a side of the story, the person put in the house an attorney, went through law school and trashed a credit.

Needed time to get rebuilt.

So it's always a win win.

Rick's was a little different.

Not a stressful situation.

He's done two like this where you and I probably think sub to stress.

Like they need help.

Right.

Because why else would they.

Rick's done two properties.

I think they're between 500amillion.

They both had very loan, very low loan to value and very low rates.

They just wanted out.

They had like two and three homes.

So he bought their homes for the sub.

For the balance of the mortgage and then the balance of the equity.

He gave him a second mortgage, no interest, no payments for four years.

Wow, great deals.

And they were happy to like, thank you Rick.

They trusted him.

I'm moving on.

And Rick's crushing.

Like those deals are each 100 grand.

So those are wins.

Like you know, those are, those are, those are terrific wins.

Now in a subject to or the creative financing, it Seems like a roadblock for a lot of people is like the contracts or the forms that we got to sign and make sure we record a deed and all that sort of stuff.

Is that going to be difficult for somebody to go through?

No.

It's funny, I just had Duan Ben Twyford.

I don't know if you've had on your show.

Yes, I have.

Okay.

So Duan was talking about this and here's this.

Just today we swap shows.

He said, look, get a good attorney.

That's done thousands of them.

Our person sales agreement internally is pre written for sub to to protect your butt.

Okay, so that's fine.

But after you get that signed, you hand it to an attorney who knows what they're doing and they pay for the deal.

So you and I don't get into legal stuff for them.

Right.

That's all you got to do.

It's not difficult.

You're not going to go do all that.

Your attorney's going to go do all that.

Simple.

And then do you record documents at the county recorder's office?

Yeah, they'll record documents.

So there's a certain way of papering this deal.

Right.

For the subtitle clause and the guy in St.

Germaine ACT and all that.

So you want attorney knows how to do that, but they'll do all the recording.

Yep, got it.

Now a lot of people, every time when I ever tell anybody, yeah, you can absolutely put your property in an llc, like your own personal llc.

Or you could take over payments.

Like what happens to the due on sale clause.

Like walk us through that problem.

Yeah, the guy in St.

Germain ACT and I'm going to give you a case study that just happened with one of our attorneys.

Allowed it in 82 I think it came about.

It's not new.

They allow property to be put in trust without triggering the due on sale clause.

State planning, other, other planning reasons.

Okay.

So provided you make the payment, I'm assuming you do the right thing as an investor more and ethically and you make the payment.

Assuming you do that, there's no reason for them to trigger due on sale because of the guy in St Germain ACT.

However, in my 33 and a quarter years last year, our attorney in Florida, he only practices in Florida.

He spoke at our event.

He, one of his investor clients was challenged and they went to calls doing sale on a sub 2.

He beat him because he papered the deal properly according to the trust that's supposed to be set up for the guy in Saint Germain.

And that is a major Case study now for investors all across the country.

And he talks about it and goes around teaching it.

So.

And this just happened.

So it's a fresh case.

And he crushed the bank.

And, and because he did it properly.

So.

So the seller has it in their name.

Has the mortgage in their name.

Yeah.

You put it into a trust.

Do you have the seller in the trust?

The cell is built into the trust for protection.

Is exactly correct.

Because look, if you do the wrong thing and you go to Tahiti.

Right.

Or you stop paying that you gotta, you can't leave them naked.

And so it's papered properly.

And, and I'll tell you, I've gone one step further, Dustin.

I've had two people sellers.

I said, look, call, call Charles.

The guy's name is Charles.

Call him up.

He's my attorney.

If you're not comfortable to talking to him, don't do it.

Both of them call me back in the 10 minute conversations.

Got it.

Understand it better now.

We'll do it.

Because he explains to them how they're protected and why it's okay.

That is, that's terrific.

I, out of all my years investing known so many investors, coached so many investors.

I have never heard of anybody actually getting that called in.

Like, hey, I put into an llc and then yeah, as long as you're paying your mortgage, like that's all the bank really cares about is making sure that the mortgage payment's paid and then they're not going to be worried about it.

Now do you tell the bank that hey, we're taking this over and is subject to.

No, there's no reason to like if a seller says it's come up in the community, oh, let me check at the bank.

No, no, you don't have to check with the bank.

This is within your right to put it in a trust and to do what we're doing.

That is awesome.

So I've heard other people not do or they're doing the subject too, but they're not doing the way you are.

And they even call up the bank and let them know this is what's going on, we're taking over payments, put it in my name, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

And they say a lot of times banks do it.

They say, okay, yeah, as long as you're making payments.

You know, we appear to be on title because so in a sense you could say we do because from insurance reasons and you have to put this on your insurance certificate.

We appear to be as far as the I meets a more a management company because the bills coming to us now, just like you were in a major company, if you and I lived in Florida and we had a home in Rye, would go, hey, my management company, mail the bill to them.

Right.

So it's very similar to that if you do it right.

Wow, that's awesome.

Any other creative ways other than subject to like any other ways that people say, you know, I want to get a deal and I don't have a ton of money, which is most people's situation.

So any other creative ways to do it?

Yeah, and I'll give you a story again because I think it's important to back this stuff up.

So the lease purchase, although does not carry as many accounting benefits, you get to control property.

And now lease purchase agreements are listed with $10 deposit.

Literally 10 bucks.

So I had a gentleman, Brian in Chicago, he was an elevator salesman, never been in real estate.

Just was pissed off.

He lost some money on his own personal house.

He came into our community his first eight deals.

Now I told him, you will be better off buying him sub 2 for accounting reasons.

But safety wise, he's like, no, no, because you don't get title in the lease purchase.

You just control it.

But for eight deals, $10 a piece, he created three paydays in our system worth 838 grand.

Now that's over time.

That's not today.

Right.

That's between two and five years paid out.

But that's a lot of money in two.

That's a lot of money.

And then he goes, I get it, I get the sub 2 thing now.

And he started changing his tune.

But that's, that's a new person can go, all right, 10 bucks.

I'm not taking title.

There's no transfer tax, blah, blah, blah, simple.

It seems like the biggest hurdle is going to be finding these deals.

Yeah.

If you said to me, what's easier, selling them or buying.

It's buying them.

A third of the people in my metrics, a third of the people that are basically talk to will be somewhat open to a phone call.

They're not all going to do it, but they're going to be someone open to a phone call.

And so you have enough people to talk to.

It's just a matter of you getting comfortable and confident and clear.

Sellers want what clarity and confidence.

The opposite's true, though.

If you're brand new, you don't have like our coaches will call for them.

Right.

But if you're brand new and you don't have any of that behind you and they sense like, you're queasy, you're not comfortable, you're.

You're unclear.

They're gonna run, they're gonna hang up, or they're not gonna cut you back and be like, why are they ghosting me?

Because you're not comfortable and confident and clear.

That's all.

And you're.

You're 100.

Right?

Like, sellers or anybody can kind of.

Well, they can get a sense of anybody.

Maybe I'm getting snowballed here.

Like, this person doesn't know what they're talking about.

Now, the person on the phone might have great intentions.

The buyer, great intentions.

They're going to take care of, like, very ethical.

And morally, they're going to take care of everything.

If they can't convey that on the phone and if they also cannot help the seller to realize that they're trying to help them in whatever situation they are, they're there to help.

If you can't convey that, it's going to be really hard to do this.

Yeah, I'll tell you how we get through that.

How we get through that, Dustin, is we do.

I don't know if I said this to you when, when we had the other show swap.

We do that by call critiques.

So we have a slack community and there's a whole channel for each level and it's called scripts and dialogues.

And they'll post their live calls.

It's harder at first.

I'm gonna do this.

But once they do it, they understand that we're gonna listen and type as we listen, and they're going to go, oh, I didn't think of that.

Next call, they're going to put that into play and so on and so forth.

And that's the fastest way to shorten your learning curve and boost your conference through the roof.

And then, of course, our coaches will also call.

Like even the lowest level program, we have our coaches get on the phone Monday and Tuesday nights.

If you bring a lead, they're calling it for you.

Oh, that's so cool.

With you on Zoom, is there any.

You have.

You have the leads that you come that come in already.

Is there any other ways that you've found.

How do I contact these or, you know, find new potential sellers?

Yeah, it's actually a good example.

You're gonna meet him tomorrow.

So I tell you he runs our companies.

Busy is an understatement.

But he loves doing deals with my daughter Kayla.

So what he does is he doesn't have time to get on the phone, even if the VA hands and Leads.

So he has a community of mostly wholesalers and a couple flippers, but mostly wholesalers because you and I know a wholesaler is going to bypass a lot of leads that won't take 60, 70 cents on the dollars.

Just the nature of the beast.

So they'll call him for an entry fee, he has to pay them.

But for an entry fee he'll get that deal sub to owner for all kinds of deals.

So he brings in some private money.

This small deposit is like 5, 10 grand to pay the wholesaler.

But he'll do that, he'll get his leads that way and it is efficient as long as you don't mind raising some little bit of money here and there.

Got it.

Now let's say you do get a property on a subject to.

You're.

You're making the payments.

Everything's.

You're at the trust set up, you got everything set up.

Right.

At what point is it like the rest of the balance of the mortgage and then once the mortgage is paid off or you refinance, like what's the exit strategy?

Or keep it perpetually Good, Good question.

Because both is the answer.

So I have a house I just sold in January.

That was my first lease purchase from August of 13.

Okay.

So when I get, when I got into creative focus, what's usually the exit?

Usually the exit for us is we're going to install a rent home buyer who's not.

I have my credit messed up for 40 years and I want to rent home.

No, a buyer who truly needs time.

They're in corporate America, they start their own business.

The bank says good credit, good cash.

Okay, you need two years of seasoning, you know that's a good buyer.

Or you look at their credit and you see, oh, death, divorce.

Okay, legitimate hiccup.

Let's get you fixed up and you can buy us in two years.

That's a normal exit to get the buyer to the finish line within two to five years.

And they're the ones that are.

You get taken over, subject to.

So yeah, so you take over the property, subject to.

And then you get them move this new person, new buyer in there and then they buy it from you.

Correct.

They'll do a monthly payment on a rental own until they get their financing or their credit in order.

And then two, three, four, five years they'll get their end loan and cash the whole thing out.

However with a sub 2.

Because I don't have a clock ticking.

Unlike if I do a term, I will at the three or four month, three or Four year point and say, hey Dustin, good news, you've been on time for two years.

You've increased your deposit.

With me, I can own or finance you now.

Now I'm a bank for 20 years or whatever it is, you know, so you can create another whole profit center there.

So then once the original seller, their mortgage is paid off and let's say you did seller financing and eventually the mortgage gets paid off, then it just keeps it in the trust.

What about the seller's name that's already in the trust still.

They just, there's a mechanism where they just going to take be taken off as either trustee or co beneficiary.

Got it.

Okay.

So it's, it's in before you like that's in the docs, right?

When you create that has to be satisfied.

Yep, got it.

Man, this is great, Chris.

And the idea that there are so many properties out there with low interest rates because what we came out of and then now interest rates are pretty high.

7, 8%.

Like I bought a house now for 8% interest rate.

I'm like shoot, this is a lot of money.

I can figure out how to get a lower interest rate.

So look at.

Even if the listeners go all right, this is cool, how about I learn how to do creative real estate if for no other reason to have the skill set to buy my own home at a 3% rate, my family probably would be pretty happy with me that go do that.

Why not do that once you learn it?

It's not like you and I have to be in their life for 20 years.

They can.

It's a skill set we can't take from them.

So go learn it and then do what you want with it.

Fast or slow, man, I love it.

Chris, so much great information.

I really appreciate you coming on.

And you have your own podcast, the Smart Real Estate Coach podcast as well.

But how can other people reach you?

How can they connect with you?

I because our relationship, I want to give everybody a book.

Like a physical book.

So.

And that's not.

Oh, free book.

And then you got to pay 8 bucks in shipping.

It's free.

Like it'll go out of this office.

You might get a couple hint.

Just go to wicked smartbooks.com forward/ passiveincome.

I love it.

And so books with an S, correct?

Yeah, wicked smartbooks.

Thanks for clarifying.com forward/ passiveincome.

Yep.

That's so nice of you, Chris.

I'm going to put that in the show notes everybody.

You got to get that book.

And he's Chris has been doing this forever, you guys.

You need to listen to what he's saying.

You need to check out everything he's doing.

But, Chris, thank you so much for being on the show.

It's so glad that we have, you know, so much in common, real estate and podcasting, everything.

So it's so great having you on, man.

Always good to hang out.

Thanks, bud.

And that is it for today.

Go ahead and get my free real estate investing course, Texas word rental, the 33777.

R E N T A L to 33777.

You can also join my real estate Wealth Builders Group coaching.

Get all my courses.

All right, guys, we'll see you in the next show.

See ya.