Hi Ellie. Welcome to What Your Next podcast.

Hi Laura. Thanks so much for having me here.

So happy to have you here. Tell us a little bit about yourself.

So I live in southwestern Ontario across the border from Michigan. So about the same weather as they have there not too far north. And I started writing books seriously in, in 2011, although I dreamed about it from the time I was about 14 years old. And then my first book came out in 2017. It's called Frost Blood. So that's. Cross Blood Trilogy came out in 20 20 18 and now I have a new series called the Thirst Wood Series that started last year with the Forest King's daughter and now the Curse Queen's daughter this year. So that's.

So talk to us about your journey because you've been writing fantasy, romance, what is considered romantic, which at the time it was probably fantasy romances or Y fantasy. Talk to about your journey because the genre has shifted quite a bit over the past five years. When you started, when probably I we're contemporary in reading that time, we're like reading these books. They're like big fantasy and then making them into the YA space. Yeah. Talk to us about your journey from that.

So I can't claim that I knew a ton about the genre stuff. When I started out, I kind of learned. As I went along but I had the good fortune of writing frost flood, which used elemental magic, just happenstance. When the Red Queen had sold, but not, it wasn't out yet. So I wasn't even aware of it when I wrote the book, but you know how ya can go in trends and so if something is big, they like to buy more of that for a while. And so I think that's probably, that helped obviously my book to sell. At the time it was labeled, I think as accessible fantasy because it's not, kind of really extensive world building and six points of view, and it was just one point of view first person, and trying to be sort of, just giving you what you need to know to keep moving along the story so that it's, moving quickly, hopefully as a plot. And that's also as a reader, kind of what I like. As well I, I'm an impatient reader, so I like when things get going quickly.

Same.

But even still I'm a wordy writer, so my editor really helped with that. She cut a lot but in one edit, she had actually cut a lot during one line edit that it's oh yeah, I don't need all those, three ways of saying the same thing.

Yeah.

So it was accessible fantasy, I think is, and with romance, right? Or romantic fantasy. And actually the first time I heard romantic was when the German publisher, 'cause then frost split also sold to a German publisher. They called it romantic. So I don't know when that started, but it was before I had ever heard it widely. And then I thought, well, that's a neat word, but I didn't realize it was gonna catch on. But I did hear it a while before it actually did really catch on. So it was applied to actually my first series by a foreign publisher, but not here. And then, yeah, so the landscape did change. I had a gap, obviously like seven years, I think in between. When Night Blood came out and when the Force King's daughter came out, part of that was I just couldn't come up with the next great idea. Like I wrote a couple books that didn't sell 'cause that happens to people. Right. Or one idea that sort of was a spinoff that you know, didn't sell. And then another one that I still like to go back to actually. And then in 2020 I just started reading fairy tales just for comfort. And that's when I started to get ideas for this. This blood thirsty forest. And my dad had also said, why don't you write a book about a forest? 'cause he loved trees and forests and everything. So that's when the idea started percolating. So I probably didn't even know, when I was first started writing that romantic was gonna be big and then it sold in 2021. I think by then I knew, but it wasn't that I set out with a plan of, trying to. Get on to any particular trend. It is just as usual me kind of writing whatever my brain comes up with and like hoping somebody wants it. And I actually thought it was a little bit too weird. I didn't know if my. An agent would even like it. And she really did. And I was surprised and happy. And then I was surprised again when it sold to my same publisher that published Frost Blood, which is Little Brown. So yeah, so then it's just a matter of, well then it's more about reader expectations, right? When, if you call it, and as probably I'm sure from talking to so many people, it's just. You don't, the author doesn't really determine how things are marketed. So maybe whether it's romantic or not is, not for me to say I think of it as that, but maybe readers are the best judges of that.

yeah, I feel like it's it's sort of shifted 'cause I wrote Fantasy and Ya Fantasy actually the Red Queen a guitar in the 20. After dystopian, 'cause it was dystopian. And then when we went to fantasy, like it really felt like the shock. And then I noticed the market shifted like. Once romances became no longer taboo because for a long time romances was a taboo. People didn't talk about romances. People just like my grandma read that or so-and-so read that or smut and I don't wanna read that. And then RO 2020 romances became kind of like the forefront. It was like people were reading, Romans were consuming Romans. They were talking about Romans, they were doing all this content and then they were finding these fantasy that had romantic plot and they were like, Hey, this is romantic. This is like actually like I like. Because I actually didn't care about the world building, but I care about the romantic relationships like, or I care about the fly, I care about the specific things that were like driving the store forward.

Yeah.

so when I was like looking for books, if I wanted to read the genre, I was like, well, I need the love story or some sort. I think in some ways now the market has exploded, that everything gets romantic. You're like, well, is it romantic? Is it a fantasy romance? And like, how do you make the definition? Because a lot of it's a marketing term is we're just trying to sell you the bug,

yeah. And that's the tough thing about when the. Trend gets more crowded is like trying to stand out and trying to get eyes on your book when there are so many different ones competing. And the other shift, of course is there was a sort of a trend for young adult. Romantic fantasy. And now there's a lot of adult fantasy, adult romantic fantasy, which I love, which I'm very excited about. And actually that's what I'd like to write next is adult romantic fantasy or romantic rather than young adult, but, which seems like that's a, where a lot of people are going. But I'm happy about it, I'm excited about it.

Yeah, I think we're all growing it. It's a weird thing 'cause I feel bad for Gen Z 'cause we had ya we had, we were fed and happy we ya in our twenties and thirties and then, now in our forties they're like, okay, we don't wanna do ya. We just want 'em to be adults now. And I've seen a lot of ya authors that I. Read, I grew up reading, It's like we're, it's a right of passage. Whether they're re they do fantasy, they do other genres. They may do romcoms, they may do thrillers, or we're trying to explore other things. 'cause I think with y there's constrained about the coming of. There's the happy for now, not happy for ever after. There's like the specific, there's parental figures, there's different constraints that you have with ya that you don't have as an adult. Like you don't need to deal with parents, you don't need to deal with they can make adult decisions, like they can choose wherever they want. They can choose to get divorced, or freak up or choose a different thing. They have different problems. They don't have the same problems that. Why we will have like a coming of age story which I think it's like it gets your freedom to figure out,

That's true. That's very perceptive. And that's interesting because I have always been writing some sort of coming of age. My themes are very much about figuring out who you are and accepting yourself. So, gee, what am I, what themes am I gonna write about if I write adult re Now I have to think,

dunno, because guess what we're still trying to figure out We're I consider myself a teenage mom in a, and I don't have children, but I'm a mom to my,

yeah.

in an adult body. I'm like, in my forties, I'm middle age.

I feel the same. I mean, who among us really has it figured out? There's.

So let's talk about the Curse Queen, the Curse Queen's daughter which is the second book in the Thirst, the Blood Thirsty series. So the third spot, sorry.

It's okay. I described it as a blood thirsty forest, so I put that in your brain, but anyway, it is a blood thirsty forest, but the series is Thirst Wood, which was one of my titles, not my original title. The funny thing is, my original title for the first book was Daughter of the Forest. I kept changing it. It became Daughter of the So King, and then it became Thirst Wood. And then it became First King's daughter. Anyway.

Yeah. So let's actually talk about, did you like both books? Let's talk about the first book. 'cause they can, they're companion novel. They like, you can read them both at standalone, but you get the most

that's right.

So let's follow the book one first, and then we'll talk about book two.

Okay, sounds good. I keep diverging onto that one, but yes, they, that is important to, to note that they can be read independently or out of order. But yeah, there is some there would be some spoilers I guess, if you care about that. For the first book, if you're read the second one first. However, it's totally fine to do that if the tropes in the second book seem, more interesting. 'Cause it's got the sort of Hades and Persephone and meets 12 dancing princesses. Those are things I love. So if someone sees that and was like, well that's the one I wanna read, then it's totally fine. Read that one, but but yeah, so, like I had said, reading fairytales was what brought me to the ideas in the book and sort of the basic premise. Well, I was reading just books. There's one book called Demons and Spirits of the Land by Claude Lato, I hope I'm saying his name correctly. A French scholar who researches folklore. And he talked about it's a lot of the rituals that humans used to do to clear the land of the perceived threats of these land spirits, or, the, whatever, beings lived there in wild places before humans inhabited them. And there were, he talks about all these rituals that people actually did to clear the land and, make it safe and habitable. So I was thinking to myself like, if these, basically fa creatures, these land spirits or whatever you wanna call them. We're being driven out by all these humans and their rituals and, couldn't leave live in harmony. What would happen to them if they could no longer live in their home? So, the premise is just that they have moved into this blood thirsty forest as protection from the humans. So a lot of different Faye, different types of, I call them land folk, but 'cause that's what's in the book. But they kind of are, Faye and Sylvans are like Dryads. And then there's the Draco who live underground. So there's different ones who've been sort of forced into proximity who weren't in proximity before. And so they have conflict. And so that's where the basic conflict comes from. And in the first book DKU Boy and Sylvan, the daughter of the Sylvan King, actually Princess. Unbeknownst to each other. They both are kind of sneaking out at night and curious about the forest when they're not supposed to be out. And they meet and become friends. And he's ru gives Cassia a ring, which he thinks is just a trinket. And he's been giving her gifts every time he sees her. And it actually turns out to be something really important that that he should never have found. And it actually has this power. Of light that can hurt his own people. And once it's in her hands, her father who's a war-like figure, the silver king is a very warlike figure. He forces her to learn to use it in this war against the ku. So, so yeah, it's def it's sort of friends to enemies to, to love. Yeah.

not supposed to be together. Just like Romy and Juliet. They're not,

Yeah. It's just a bad idea,

they're gonna war. They're at war.

Literally his gift, we, leads to a war because the queen, the drag queen demands it back. And of course the Sylvan King is not gonna give back this powerful weapon. So that leads to 10 years of war. And that's where the beginning of the book, so that's just introduced in the prologue. And then the chapter one is after they've grown up a little bit and they've been at war for a long time,

so that's the first book. And then the second book, we have a different couple of characters who have dresses, dance, and again, they're not supposed to be together,

That's very true. So, right. The second book is about Thea. The another sister older than Cassia actually, and she's very different from Cassia. Cassia is kind of a gentler character and doesn't wanna be in this war and doesn't wanna hurt anyone. Thea doesn't mind hurting anyone. She's really warlike and very confident and believes in herself and wants to be first Huntsman, which is. Sort of the top title among their people in their army. And so she wants to prove herself. But she has these two problems. One is that her mother disappeared several years before and everyone's been told that her mother went into her tree to rest. 'cause sylvans are like dreads. They have birth tree. Where they go to rest and rejuvenate if they're sick. But she knows that's a lie. She knows that she has to carry this secret that she knows that's not what happened to her mother. She doesn't know what happened to her mother, but she knows that's not true. And then also just on her 19th name day. These dresses start appearing out of nowhere in her bed chamber, on her hearth, and they continue to appear. And it turns out they're an invitation to this dance in this other realm. So I don't wanna give too much away, but it turns out the person sending this invitation has information about her mother. So she kind of has to realize that she has to go into this other realm. And the problem for her is that, the power in this other realm is these shadows and they can't be killed by a sword, which is what she's proficient with a sword. She's good at battle, but that doesn't help her in this new environment. So it's a little fish out of water and very frustrating for her.

Yes, she has to deal with demons and shadows. Who else can you ask for? It's oh my gosh, I cannot fight it with my sword. Actually have to think about another being, that it's unknown to her. And again, coming of age,

that's right. That's true. Yes. Learning that her simple way of dealing with problems or the way she's always been taught to deal with problems just doesn't work and she needs other skills and then she begins to question things that she thought she knew about her people and her family too. So, yep. Loss of coming of age.

Ali, let's about some books, let's about the books that\ you read cross genre. You read from fantasy to romance to nonfiction to old genres, right?

Yeah, I do usually go in sort of stages of I'll read one genre, a whole bunch of it, like a few years ago. Like a whole ton of historical romance. So lately I have been reading more young adult fantasy. So, and it's also because then you get asked to blurb a book, so you tend to read books for blurbing as well. But yeah, so mostly young adult fantasy. But I'm still so behind, I don't know about you, but like

I am so behind, I have so many, like it's to a point where I'm like, when I need to quit my job, I need to quit podcasting. And my job,

Just read. Yeah, maybe there'd be hope if that's all we did.

yes, because.

Oh, I believe it. I don't know how you do it all. 'cause it's hard enough and I'm a slow reader as well, so that makes it even so I can't skim, if I try to skim, I am just not absorbing what's going on. So yeah.

No, and you read paper, right?

I like to read. I do prefer paper. That's still my favorite, but I do read eBooks and I listen to audiobooks as well,

I actually just rediscovered paper after 10 years of doing eBooks. I was like, oh, this is great. There was something to be said and not having to have to tell me how long I have left over the book or tell me the percentage of it and just holding this stuff and going analog and I was like, this is great. Rediscover paper.

I think that's why I like it because I think my attention span has been really damaged by my smartphone addiction.

Yes, my phone addiction, like it's terrible. I can do audiobook 'cause I like audiobooks. I can listen to in the car, I can listen 'em to different places.

Mm-hmm.

on Libby. Actually, this is my favorite soothing thing. I go on Libby on the library app and I scroll while listen to an audiobook. And I see all the books that I wanna read that I would never get to read because there's too many.

yep.

but paper has been mind blowing. I was like, wait, I can just sit and read a book and not have to think about notifications and stuff to do.

Yep, exactly. That book just becomes your world and you can just

Yes. It feels like rediscover reading again and I'm like, oh, this is great.

Yeah. That's a good way to say it.

Yeah. All right. So let's talk some Booker windows. You have a couple ones you wanna recommend to us?

so I just finished reading until the Clock Strikes Midnight by Alicia Dow and I haven't read any of her books before and I have to admit, I actually have it here 'cause I just finished it. Should I show it? It has such a pretty cover, so I'm gonna admit to being shallow and that

I'm a cover buyer. Yes. This is so.

And just the look of it, the fairytale look, and with the news being so heavy lately. I was like, yeah, I'm gonna read this book that looks like maybe it won't destroy me.

No ITR vibe.

Stresses 'cause the main character, darling, her name is Darling, she's a fairy and she wants to be on this Mortal Outcome Council. So there's these celestial beings who try to sort of manipulate the mortal world or help people or whatever. And she wants to be on this, but usually fairies are not guardians, so she's kind of already doesn't fit in. So in order to prove herself, she's given an assignment to immortal. But they also assign a misfortune who's another type of I don't know exactly if I should say celestial, but being with powers as well. But most misfortunes have a different belief. So darling believes that everyone deserves a happily ever after. And misfortunes think that striving for happily ever after can lead you to your doom and to unhappiness and to a miserable ever after. So they think it's much safer if you go for an ordinary ever after. So this misfortune, his name is Calamity or Caleb for short. Like I said, I gotta show the cover again 'cause they're so, and they end up sort of being in this fake engagement in order to hide their identity from the mortal that they're trying to help. So there's also the forced proximity and sharing a room and stuff like that. And they're just so different, right? But there's an immediate chemistry, but they're both trying to help this mortal and they both think they're doing what's best, but coming at it from different. Values, right? Thinking she should go for love and should be happy and thinking, no, that's too dangerous. Love is just the root of unhappiness for people. They should just, not strive so high. And so, yeah. So I don't wanna give anything else away, but there are dresses, there's a ball. And it's, yeah it's really a fun read.

Oh my gosh. I. am adding, you're adding more books to my, even though I love, I don't believe in Happily

Okay. Caleb agrees with you, like he's on the same page,

Yes.

Yeah it's just, it's a break. It's a nice break from heavy stuff, but it also deals with some, some issues as well. Like me character darling, she has an illness I forget what she calls it in the book, but it causes her ups and downs and she has to take medication for it. And that's kind of openly discussed in the book. And it, it challenges her and it is hard for her, but it never stops her from trying her best and, believing in like happily ever after and all that stuff.

Oh, this is So, good.

Yeah. It's a very hopeful read for sure.

So Ellie, tell us where you're gonna find online.

I have a website, ellyblake.com and I have a lot of buy links in there if you're looking to buy any of my books. I'm mostly on Instagram, so you can find me there most regularly. And I'm also on threads in Blue Sky and Facebook. But yeah, anything else? Is pretty sporadic for me. I should shouldn't share because I'm not on there enough. Even like Pinterest, I, people will message me and then I'll see it like a year later or something. So it's probably safest to interact with me on Instagram and which

Yep, I understand. So thank you, Ali, for being the shower.

Oh, thank you so much for having me. It was really fun chatting with you.

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