Most of you who listen to this podcast know that I am

passionate about paratransit.

I'm Paul Comfort and on this episode of Transit Unplugged we're going to take you

to the cutting edge of how paratransit service is adapting in the United States.

When the Americans with Disabilities Act was passed in 1990, I was already

involved in providing paratransit in a small county where I lived, and then the

new rules came in place which specified how the service was to be provided.

A lot of transit agencies did it directly with their own companies,

vehicles, their own agency vehicles.

Then many of them, most of them now, contract that out, and now there's even

a third iteration of how the service is being provided, and that's through TNCs.

Companies like Uber and Lyft, are supplementing also what taxicab

providers have done in the past through rider's choice programs.

we recently had on some folks talking about paratransit and how they're

using those type of companies.

And today we're going to talk to the CEO of one of the adaptive TNCs, one of

the leading ones, and that is UZURV Ned Freeman is the new CEO, having recently

taken over the reins from John Donlon.

He's going to unpack how it works.

How do these adaptive TNCs actually work?

How do they provide the service?

I think it'll be very interesting for you who are considering what

the next iteration of service might be for your agency or you've seen

it operate in another agency and you're wondering how it works.

Ned will explain it all, on this episode of Transit Unplugged.

Enjoy.

This is Transit Unplugged.

I'm Paul Comfort.

Great to be with you on another edition of the world's leading

transit executive podcast.

Today, I'm excited to have with us my friend Ned Freeman, who is CEO

of the company UZURV, talking to me today from Richmond, Virginia.

Ned, thanks for joining us..

Hey, Paul.

Thank you.

Thanks for having us on.

So today, Ned and I, we're going to dive into the role of paratransit in

America and, how it helps people, with disabilities really achieve mobility

that they could not have otherwise.

And then some of the latest trends over the last decade.

And I'm here to talk about the work that we've done over the past decade

that have really helped transit agencies fulfill not only their legal mandate

but the moral and even if you might say spiritual mandate of the ADA, which is

to help people, to really make sure that people with disabilities have that full

access to all of life's opportunities, which was, I know, Senator Bob Dole's

goal back in 1990 and all the folks that were involved in passing the

Americans with Disabilities Act here.

And Ned, you know, my background, most people, listeners to the podcast

know of I've been listening for a while, but I'm passionate about

what we in America call paratransit.

What they in Australia and England and other places call on demand transit.

And I know you're passionate about that too, aren't you?

I am.

Absolutely.

Listen, mobility independence is for everyone, not just the bus.

We could get out to a curb or get to a vehicle on our own.

everybody.

And it's one in four people every single day.

You know that as well as I do.

One in four people every single day here in the United States.

They just can't get where they need to go on their own.

They just want to go work.

They want to go play.

They want to go see their friends, see a movie.

And the goal here is to make that normal so that it just works.

Paratransit is an opportunity for public transit agencies and

for all of us to really change the way, mobility independence.

And assisted transportation works for people who need help getting

where they don't want to go.

I was just talking to Veronica Vanterpool, last week, actually, for the podcast,

and, uh, she's the administrator of the FTA, the Federal Trans Administration.

We were talking about how they have updated and upgraded almost 100

stations across America over the last four years, to be accessible.

And she said, you know, Paul, it's not just for people that are in a wheelchair.

It could be you if you break your leg in a skiing accident, and you need to

get somewhere, et cetera, et cetera, and I think that's something important to

remember that, you know, anything could happen to any of us, and, you know, I

think about my mom and dad when they were getting older and, you know, This is why

I'm so passionate about it, Ned, and I'm so happy to have you on board today to

talk about how you're providing, really, an extra level of service, even beyond

what's required under the ADA, this curb to curb service that was required under

ADA, with seven, one to seven days in advance notice, for those of you around

the world, that, that's what the ADA requires, the Americans with Disabilities

Act And so, this service also says that a person has to make a trip, reservation

one to seven days in advance, meaning they can't a lot of times get same day service,

which is something that Ned's company is helping us achieve better service for.

Ned, how is UZURV working to begin with the end in mind?

To put the passenger first.

And then tell me something about your company and its role

in the paratransit industry.

Sure.

So, how do we put the end in mind first?

You know, the outcome here, as I said, before, Paul, the outcome here

is finding a way that independent mobility just feels normal for everyone.

And so my mother, who's about to turn 80, I'm looking forward to a trip with her

and my sister going off to celebrate that.

my immediate family, I've got folks with both visible and invisible disabilities.

So, for people who need assistance with mobility, you could have a disability,

you could be an older adult, where it, you just need help getting to the

vehicle or to the public transit station to take advantage of this system.

And as you know, within three quarter miles of any fixed route

system, paratransit is there.

And so, as a public agency, what, what you're trying to do is, set up

the opportunity for an equal level of service, equivalent level of service

for the riders in your community.

What UZURV does, is work with public transit agencies as a non dedicated

service provider in paratransit.

So what does that mean?

our Adaptive Transportation Network Company, so an Adaptive Transportation

Network Company is a TNC model, but our technology really governs and, makes sure

that the service provision can meet all of the federal, FTA included, state, and

and local requirements for compliance.

So, you can operate a TNC model that is FTA, drug and alcohol, pre

service and random testing compliant.

You can use that as a tool in your toolbox as a public transit agency to complement

your fixed assets, your paratransit fleet, your drivers, to help make your

system more efficient where it's tough.

You know, paratransit's hard.

It really is.

It's not easy.

There are a lot of things that change on any given day.

One weather event, one road closed, and things kind of get out of whack.

So, what you need is a nimble and flexible tool that can be a part of that system

on a daily basis that can help you adapt.

And shift to the needs of the system on any given day.

And that means a lot of people get where they need to go to their medical

appointments, to the movies, if they want to go see their friends.

You know, a lot of times it's talked about as a cost, public transit, paratransit.

They're expensive.

The budgets are huge.

And we're all facing this operating fiscal cliff coming up soon as

a nation and as an industry.

And that it's true.

You have to spend a significant amount of money to operate the service.

But the value that is created in our communities, the people who are

getting where they need to go, the jobs, the opportunity to get to the

medical appointments, to be free.

You know, there's tremendous value in public transit and what the industry

offers, and, you know, we're proud to be a part of it, You know, what we really

do is let agencies provide really high quality paratransit service at a cost

that is about 45 percent of the typical operating cost per trip per mile.

you know, we've been able to sort of see that.

We're in about 15 states now, about 20 different markets, have a number of,

different programs that we operate.

And, consistently, through federal reporting and data, you see a lot of

cost savings, you see 98 percent on time performance every single day, across

millions of trips, and it's, it's really been rewarding to be a part of it.

That's great, Ned.

I know when I was at WMATA, we didn't have companies like your company at that

time when I was running paratransit there.

And so we had to get taxi companies to have their drivers drug tested, you

know, background checked, and then they would opt into a program where then we

could use them as overflow, basically.

So is that how it works, Ned?

Are you guys in most Markets, companies like yours, basically helping do the

overflow service for paratransit, the longer trips, the late night trips,

or are you integrated in everywhere?

Or is it different in every market, I guess?

Is it okay to start a comment with a cliche?

Yeah, sure.

As you know, with, and I probably heard it from you first on the podcast,

when you've come across one public transit agency, you've come across,

across one public transit agency.

They are all different and there are good reasons for that.

Every community is different.

Every set of needs, every sort of governing structure.

And so what, what you find is that, you know, the, we work both directly

with public transit agencies, as a, as a contractor for them.

We also work a lot with the national transit management companies as a

subcontractor to the prime who are operating the paratransit systems.

we work on every major technology platform or operating system.

Very interesting.

It's so unique.

model, and, and set of parameters.

And so we have agencies where we are as much as 80 percent of the ambulatory,

so the non wheelchair accessible vehicle, paratransit on a daily basis.

they emphasize using their fixed assets to make sure that the wheelchair

accessible vehicle, transportation in that community is exceptionally well served.

And we have places where we are, you know, a smaller percentage, usually, you know,

maybe sometimes 10, 15 percent of service.

It's interesting.

So, the model itself, TNC, for those who aren't familiar with the terminology,

means Transport Networking Company, and it's kind of a, overall, the

nomenclature we use to talk about all these companies that are working

similar, where you basically hire people who are driving their own car, right?

And then what happens?

So how does all that work?

It kind of, if you don't mind, unpack that a little bit for me.

How does all that work?

Let's say I wanted to be, you know, I live near Baltimore.

Maybe I'm a school bus driver and I drive mornings and afternoons and I want to

drive during the three or four hours in the middle of the day to make some money.

How does all that work, Ned?

You bet.

So a transportation network company is a technology platform that lets

independent contractors perform service and, on the platform.

And so our public transit agencies contract with UZURV to place their trips,

their rides, for their riders needs.

For their eligible riders on the UZURV platform and UZURV's platform,

then it's a marketplace business.

Does that make sense?

You've got rides on one side and you've got providers on the other.

And so the, the providers who join user are people who've learned about this

opportunity to earn good money, doing good, people who live in Baltimore,

for example, and, learn, hey, I have this opportunity where I can help

people with disabilities or older adults get where they need to go.

UZURV gets out there in the market and lets people know that we're available.

A driver downloads our application.

They go through an onboarding process, at which time they kind of prove that

they are legal to drive, that they are insured, that they have the necessary

requirements and understanding of how to assist people with disabilities.

It's an extensive onboarding process that is really unique to UZURV to be honest.

every TNC has onboarding and background checks.

What we've done is build a set of background and compliance, oversight

and technology on the platform to make sure that every single person

who arrives to provide service as a contractor on the platform knows what

to do, how to do it, and how to serve people, how to ask the right question.

So you provide training to all them?

You know, Paul, that's, it's a, it's an interesting question.

Our technology platform makes sure that the drivers who are on the

platform, have the training that they need to do the service correctly.

And it is an extensive set of requirements that meet all of those federal, local,

state, the contractual requirements.

I mean, we all know how important it is to make sure, you know how

to do the right things for every single rider on the platform.

Every rider has a unique set of needs.

Every rider has a unique set of preferences.

How do you make sure people are treated, fairly, well, and, taken

care of appropriately on the platform?

And that, and that's what, that's what our onboarding process does.

It makes sure that every single contractor on the platform is able

to do that effectively and well.

And all this is, FTA compliant?

You know, do they have lots of rules about all this?

Absolutely.

Yes, we've been a part of multiple audits with our agency partners and

the transit management companies.

We have passed with, strong, exceptional results throughout the

process and, we, you know, it, we've worked closely with, the FTA and

some of their contractors over time.

Yeah, those requirements were written many years ago.

I mean, you're aware there's a new conversation kind of trying to clarify.

for the industry, the role that TNCs play in how the FTA drug and

alcohol testing requirements apply.

it's really important.

You know, you, you can have lower cost, high quality service in a TMC model

without sacrificing safety and compliance.

You really can.

Paul.

Yeah, you know, it, it's, the funny thing is if you're an agency or a

transit management operating company, and you had UZURV in your service mix

as a non dedicated service provider, and you're operating your fixed assets

and your fleet, and you're doing all the things you do as best, as well

as you can, and you're doing a great job in your community, what kind of

trips are you sending to UZURV, Paul?

Are you sending us the easy ones?

Are you sending us the challenging ones around the edge?

And I think that's, what's really important despite the fact that the

selection bias is the, the, the types of trips and the systemic issues and

the peak hours and all of that come to UZURV we've been able to deliver

98 percent on time performance in a 15 minute window, 15 minutes.

We pulled ourselves to an extremely high standard.

Quality first.

When I think about the rider experience and measuring that in your community,

you know, we, we use net promoter score.

We use a different set of customer satisfaction metrics.

We actually just did a study with your friends at TransPro and had them conduct

an independent survey across eight different of our clients and partners.

Assessing the rider satisfaction of, paratransit and UZURV and came out with

an exceptional rider satisfaction score.

I looked at that study.

Yeah, I love Mark Ash, by the way, does great work.

But yeah, yeah, your numbers were awesome, man.

The other thing I like about, this model of having contractors and then

this TNC model assist them is, you know, coming out of the pandemic, I

remember a couple of years ago, and hopefully that's the last time I ever

say that in an interview, because we're trying to get away from saying that.

But I remember having a conversation with another buddy of mine who

has a similar company of yours.

His name is Jeff Maltz.

He has a company called Silveride.

It's not the same thing, but similar.

And he said, Paul, the difference is, you know, everybody was

having trouble getting drivers.

You know, he said, there is a different type of person that doesn't want to go

and do an eight hour shift in a uniform, come in and drive somebody else's

vehicle, drive to the yard, get in a vehicle, go out eight hours and come back.

Versus Aunt Susan, who wants to work for three hours when her child is in

daycare in the morning or in preschool.

She wants to go out, like I mentioned earlier, in her car, station wagon,

whatever, Volvo, and go out and make a little money and help people.

It's something that makes her feel good.

So, I like that.

It attracts almost the user base of your drivers, contractors It's

kind of a different group of people maybe than would be attracted to a

full eight hour day that some people just can't do or don't want to do.

It's definitely, one of the pieces, people like independence and people like control.

And so, When you have the opportunity to do something that's really rewarding,

both, in a community service, in an emotional context, but also

pays well, it's nice to have that.

And independence and flexibility is one of the things that our providers

on the platform, our drivers, tell us is really important to them.

you know, we, we're in this unique position where, because our technology

and our, operating model can be highly efficient and are highly efficient in

comparison to traditional operating metrics, there's value that we can create

For our transit agency partners, our transit management partners, there's also

value that we are creating for our riders.

The experience, the time on board, the reliability of service, the timeliness

of that service, and also for our providers, the drivers on the platform.

It is really important to us that every single person In this sort of

community of what's involved on the user platform is getting value out of it.

And there are very few businesses where somebody doesn't have to try

to squeeze something to get ahead.

And we don't.

The efficiency and the quality of the model allows us to make sure our

drivers are taken care of, the riders are getting a great experience, and

the agencies are saving money and getting better performance metrics.

It's a great, it's a great model.

Yeah.

Number one, oh, I'm sorry, but let me just tell you one more.

Yeah,

sure.

The number one complaint from user of drivers is that I

wish I could do more of this.

You know, we don't always have as many trips as someone

might want in a given market.

So it's always that constant balance of supply and demand to make sure we're

keeping our performance metrics and trying to, and we got a lot of work to

do to continue to grow and build on that.

Yeah, it's really important to us that everybody receives

the value in the system.

That's amazing.

I, you know, Ron Brooks, you can't really talk about paratransit in

America without bringing Ron Brooks into it one of the leading, advocates,

good friend of both of ours.

and, he wrote a chapter, actually chapter 11 in my recent book, New Future of

Public Transportation, where he talks about, you know, Kind of how paratransit

got started in America, but also where it's going, and gives a view of, you

know, moving to more on demand trips from these pre scheduled and, the kind of

things you and I have been talking about.

And I really see, over the decades, so I've been involved in this now, this is

my fourth decade involved in paratransit and in fixed route transit, I've

seen an evolution Of how this worked.

When paratransit first, I got into it before 1990.

I started 1987 and we didn't have ADA, we made up our own rules.

We bought our own vehicles.

We, but our job when I started was to take people to senior centers

and doctors and the elderly folks and people with disabilities.

And then we had this, these rule-based thing come in where everybody

bought certain types of vehicles and it was under a certain model.

And then we had.

The rise of contractors, and I work for most of the major contractors, at the

time there were companies like Laidlaw, and Yellow Transportation, and then, and

MV, and then they all got consolidated.

The market changed, but contractors came out and really specialized in this.

They're the contractors that they contract with subcontractors like

UZURV or agencies do it directly.

And so this to me is the next flexible iteration of service.

And there's other models too, right?

We know that Uber and Lyft don't have direct ADA, but they're doing

rider's choice programs, which is kind of a different iteration of this.

So, there's lots of still, there's lots of, exploration in the market, and I think

with the new Trump Administration coming in, we'll see what the next iteration will

be, because you know, I believe there's going to be big changes foisted on the

industry, you know, the, the pocketbook's always there, right, and so they're going

to say, here's how we want things to go, and it may be slightly different than

we've had, so there'll be, the ability to adapt, is, is key, I think, for

this industry, but I love the fact that we all have the end customer in mind.

That's absolutely right.

Look, operating service is challenging.

Operating service is expensive.

And when you can find a tool that you can add to the toolbox,

there's no panacea for any of this.

It's actually just really difficult to move a lot of people around the community.

that's why we have an industry.

It's, it is really important to add the tools to your toolbox that allow

you to have that layer of flexibility that you were talking about.

And look, there's a, there's a place in the world for all different

types of businesses and services.

And so what we care about.

is that when it comes to people with disabilities and older adults who

have specific needs, who have specific preferences for how they get around, that

we make sure they're taken care of and you have the right people getting to and fro.

You know, you talk about the rider choice programs, you talk about

the different modes of service.

I think they're great.

You know, I really do.

What I do think is incredibly important is that for the people

who need assistance, you know, the people for whom these regulations were

originally crafted to make sure they had the same access as everyone else.

And had the same amount of flexibility and operating advantages that you can

have with some of these more flexible models, such as our adaptive TNC model.

That's a great segue really to the last segment of the podcast, Ned,

is let's take a look at the future.

what you see coming from your perspective, what do you believe the

industry can do to improve, paratransit?

You started off with the term, I believe you said in Australia, Australia,

they call it on demand transit.

That's right.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That's what it should be.

I think in the same way that I can get in a vehicle, or you can hop on the bus,

or I can get to a, whatever, in that same way, the access to me being able to have

the independent mobility and the agency for myself, regardless of disability,

regardless of age, regardless of need for assistance, That I have that agency,

that I can just get where I need to go.

There is so much unlocked value in our communities, job, workforce.

Medical benefits, healthcare, just emotional benefits for people being able

to get out and get where they need to go.

And I hope, I hope I'm not beating that drum too much, but what I see

is bringing into the mix of the fixed route, these, you know, I love all of the

improvements that we've had in, building out more accessible fixed route service.

Yes.

Right.

really kind of.

Developing seamless transitions for everyone throughout the network.

It's, it's, it's really important, to have all the tools and to

recognize all the people's needs.

In that process and just, you know, build that toolbox out.

There's not one answer for any given community.

Absolutely.

Do you see any other things on the horizon in the future when it comes to

providing paratransit, you know, how transit agencies can adjust their approach

to improving transit, paratransit?

I, you know, I think you continue to look at your technology stack

and the way that you're integrated.

you know, I, I think that there, there are some great systems out

there and, you know, they're all very unique in how they're applied.

you know, you want your smart people on your staff able to

do the most important things.

And so, continuing to build on the technology stacks, really kind of

think about the tools in the toolbox that make it easier to manage

the things that have been hard.

You know, it's, it's, continuing to, you know, you mentioned

Ron Brooks and Kristen Joyner.

I know they were on the podcast.

I enjoyed that, by the way.

It was great job.

yeah, they have a new book out.

We should, we should promote it.

a new book about, about all this.

Yeah.

All aboard.

Yes.

All aboard.

And, you know, it promotes itself because it, it, one of the things that

I think we're, and Eileen Collins, another one of your guests is a, is

a really great advocate for this.

Listening in the community in different and new ways and making sure you're

hearing the voices in a powerful way and really incorporating that feedback.

when people can influence effectively the direction of

things, it really makes a difference

. Absolutely.

You know, I'm friends with John Donlon, the founder of UZURV, who recently

turned the reins over to you and is taking the role of president there.

Wonderful man.

He actually came to, I met him when he came to my first book signing for the

book, The Future of Public Transportation, which was, in March of 20 with whatever

year it was when all this kicked in.

but, I love the, kind of his history and his background.

I'd like to hear a little bit about yours, Ned.

How did you get into this business?

I mean, you're a very tactical, hands on, you've kind of built this company.

You're the guy that was operating the day to day behind the scenes.

So tell me about your background and what skill sets you brought to the table and

what made you interested in doing this?

Well, Paul, I am a, graduated from college with a liberal arts

degree and no practical skills.

So, managed to find my way to becoming a writer originally, a copywriter,

and I helped build a company, that, that, kind of rebuilt how college and

university student recruitment was done.

And it was this great journey of seeing a company, go from being a small,

unique, high quality product into this great, large, wonderful thing that

became a, sort of a national presence.

spent some time, in strategy roles and operations, marketing there.

I did my tour of duty in Fortune 100 financial services, learning a

lot about brand strategy and how a really big enterprise is well managed.

And then I got that itch to go back and start building companies again.

So I live in Richmond, Virginia, which by the way, I think I mentioned,

I don't know if I mentioned, we've been without water for four days,

which has been an interesting adventure here in the, in the network.

Now that's why the dark behind me here, cause buildings, but, we, so, as I

kind of wrapping up that time in, brand and fortune 100, I wanted to find.

something to build again.

And I met John.

And, you know, John's one of these, wonderful, caring human beings who

found this company, UZURV, and was a part of really learning about

all these needs in paratransit and applying what our technology platform

could do, to, to, to what's possible.

And we've just continued to learn what's really unique about UZURV in this case.

and I'll come back to, to sort of the, the, the course here.

We have been operating service and building the technology as we go to do it.

So everything we've built from a technology standpoint really

comes from real world, hard knocks experience of day to day.

How do you manage these things well and safely?

And that's the difference in UZURV And what's made us really

good at what we do and why our performance metrics are so high.

So that, that journey here, I came here to help John launch.

we'd been, I think in Richmond was our, our, our home base was our first contract.

We were in Nashville.

We were in Jacksonville, Florida, but it was time to launch nationally.

And I began that journey with him from a marketing standpoint.

A couple of years in became the COO.

built out the driver recruiting had, quite a pandemic period as we all did.

And, you know, we just, we found our way and we've continued to

build, we have a great team, you know, and the, the, the team and

the culture is what really matters.

And we're going to keep doing what we do.

Absolutely.

talking about your team, I'm, I'm, I know several of them.

Your IT director is such a sharp guy.

PhilBear, Phil has built this platform for the ground up.

With our Richmond, Virginia based engineering team, small team really

punches above their weight, but he has built it from the ground up from the

get go, also a founder of the company.

to provide the, the compliance to provide what you need to do paratransit

well, that's what it was designed for.

It's not another system being applied to paratransit.

This is a technology platform, an adaptive TNC platform that is built

specifically for paratransit and for assisting people with disabilities.

It's great.

I mean, the expertise with integrations.

The efficiency, the reliability of the platform.

I look, I've been a part of a lot of different companies that were growing.

I've seen a lot of bubblegum and duct tape over my time.

Never worked with a more professional, thoughtful, strategic, and caring group

of people in our engineering team.

And that goes across the board from our, from our sales people who are actually,

yeah, they're in sales and business development, but you know, our, our EVP

of business development, John Duncan, he actually really cares about seeing these

agencies truly get where they want to go.

It's great.

I mean, it's just, every single person here has their own sort of

unique story about their person, their person in their lives who's

struggled to get where they need to go.

And it's very personal for all of us.

You know, there is no reason that it has to be difficult

to get where you want to go.

There's no reason why if you have a service animal and you're

trying to get where you need to go, you get service denials.

That doesn't have to happen.

And, we want to see it

changed.

That's great.

Well, Ned, thank you so much for spending a few minutes with us today

on the podcast to talk about this next phase of evolution of the, of

how paratransit is offered in the U.

S.

market and is there any final thoughts or any closing thoughts

you want to leave us with?

No,

Paul, you're

the best.

You know, keep this voice going.

I really appreciate hearing from all the different leaders in paratransit.

Thank you, Ned.

Thank you, Paul.

Thank you for listening to this week's episode of Transit Unplugged with our

special guest, UZURV CEO, Ned Freeman.

Coming up next week, we have the third of five shows that come from

Paul's recent visit to Australia.

In this episode, Paul was joined by special co host Kelly Chapman for

some interviews with just a few of the amazing women leading the way and making

a difference in transit in Australia.

. Transit Unplugged is brought to you by Modaxo.

At Modaxo, we're passionate about moving the world's people.

And at Transit Unplugged, we're passionate about telling those stories.

So until next week, ride safe and ride happy.