From classics to curiosity and where melodies meet me.

Welcome.

Welcome back to another episode of Music Explored.

I am one of your hosts, as usual.

D.

I'm here with my partner in crime, Anthony.

How you doing today, my friend?

Guilty.

That's me.

I'm good, man.

It's a blessing to be alive.

Great to be back on the podcast and.

Yeah, just getting through the busy holiday season, feeling good about things and feeling really optimistic about the new year, man.

Just, it's, it's good.

Yeah.

And what better way to end the year, right?

I mean, I know, I know you're going to intro him, but I'm excited to get to talking to our guest today.

Yeah, yeah.

This is very exciting.

And now we've got people like, who is it?

Well, here you go.

I'm going to read this one.

It's a little, this is an interesting one.

I'm going to do a combination of reading and freestyling, so I'll get the important stuff in before I mess anything up potentially.

But yeah, Bill, Bill Dolan we have with us today.

He is our guest and Bill has on tv, video and an event director.

He's the author of a marvelous, like a fantastic book, the Seven Disciplines of Relationship Marketing.

I gotta say I'm.

Stop right there.

Pause.

Blew my mind reading this while listening to this book.

I, I'll talk to you some more about it.

But we really, we could do a whole podcast alone on the content of this book.

It's.

Yeah, yeah, I'll go on about it.

So I'm going to come back to that.

Stick a pin.

Also a keynote speaker in leadership and something that's going to be very interesting to talk to you about leadership and then near death experiences.

Yeah, I think that speaks for itself.

And then what's also cool is you've directed projects with names that everybody knows.

I'm only going to drop a few of them because the list will go on.

But on the film side, I know there's been like Arnold Schwarzenegger, Alec Baldwin, Bill Clinton on the film side.

Very interesting.

Let's ask about that.

Also, you've done a lot in music and more, but you've worked with, well, some notable Christian bands as well as Glenn, Gwen Stefani, and then on the, I guess the branding marketing side just to drop a few in there like Nike and Intel.

So I mean, and I'm sure a lot more in between.

But you've, you've achieved some major things.

You've worked at the highest level of film, music, marketing.

So it's a pleasure My long intro.

Just to say, Bill, it's a pleasure to have you here, and we're looking forward to this chat today so much.

Well, it's great to be here, Anthony.

Great to be here, Dee.

Great to actually get to connect with you guys, because we've talked about doing this for a while and.

Yeah, yeah, we're actually doing it.

Today's the day.

I'm here for you.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

I appreciate you.

And I always.

This is funny.

I always like to find.

Because we are the Music Explored podcast, and obviously we're all connected to music in some way or the other.

And a lot of times for our guests, it's just been like, you know, music enthusiasts, if not necessarily connected to the industry.

But I did find something here, and I'm very excited to say this.

I don't know if you still play, but I know that growing up, you played piano.

You're Clint, you're trained classically.

I found that connection.

So you are one of our musician family.

So welcome on that note as well.

So I actually.

And I mentioned playing piano.

That's correct.

Right.

First of all.

That's correct.

That's correct.

I had nuns beat me in the fingers.

Oh, were you one of those ruler guys?

I am.

I am one of those kids.

Yes.

Wow.

Nice.

I didn't do my fingers right.

I was like, yeah, let's do some jazz action.

No, that doesn't happen.

That's a sin.

Yeah.

Jeez.

And I guess that's going back to your childhood.

Which actually brings me to my.

My first question.

And this is on the film side, but I know that film is.

Film and music are both very.

They both have storytelling, like, interweaves either way.

Right.

But, yeah, I assume, because you've, you know, you've worked at a high level on both sides of this, assuming it goes back to childhood.

Now, what sparked, like, your.

I know you have a love for storytelling.

I don't know if it started on the film or music side, but, like, what sparked that?

Maybe we could start there.

Well, it's interesting.

It's interesting that.

That it'd be great to say, well, I had this dream, and this is kind of how it unfolded.

It actually was a dark dream is what it was.

Is that when I was growing up, you know, I did.

I played music, I played piano.

And of course, you know, girls love guitar players, so I learned how to play guitar, too.

But, you know, but the thing that really drove me into this whole idea of storytelling was really my retreat.

My dad was very ill when I was growing up, in fact.

He was.

He was in so much pain.

He was verbally abusive.

He was physically abusive.

And I was just trying to, like, sometimes hide.

And I would hide in my room where I had a tv.

And I used to love classic films, so I watched every monster movie, science fiction movie.

I mean, you named it.

I was watching all these films, not realizing I was being mentored in storytelling.

So what was really my escape eventually grew to be my love.

But I didn't know it at the time, so I'm immersed in this.

And of course, growing up playing music, I developed a larger appreciation for classical, for rock, for jazz, just all these different types.

And realizing that great films, you're right, Anthony.

They're about telling stories, and great music is about telling stories.

And why those stories connect so much is because they aren't just a front cortex experience.

It isn't just a here's what happened here and here's what happened here.

No, it's.

This is what we felt here.

And let me tell you what it feels like, and let me take you on that journey.

Let me help you feel that way, and let me actually help you form a relationship with the characters that make you care.

And we're wired for relationship.

So that idea of relationship and story is so organically connected to the human experience.

I didn't know it then, but that was my training, and that's how I grew up.

And that's my love now.

Wow, that's beautiful.

TV was.

Many are, I guess, our first loves.

TV was your first mentor, and it paid off for you in ways that probably hasn't for many that spent a lot of time in front of the television.

So that's pretty cool.

Makes me wonder, though.

So did you have, I guess, what was your first project that you got into on, like, on the film side?

Were you still, like, as it was a childhood thing or.

Well, yes, it's interesting.

I think all of us.

All of us find our ways to tell stories.

Either way, it's a story we told to get out of trouble.

That's true.

That's true.

You know, or a story sometimes we secretly tell ourselves about ourselves.

But for me, I can tell you a defining moment for me.

And it's not that glamorous, but it was an awakening for me.

And it wasn't really.

It was in high school because even though I was being mentored and being surrounded by story and the arts, my mom was a nurse because, remember, my dad being sick and my mom being a nurse, there was a fascination for Me about the medical field, maybe being a doctor, because there was a part that said, I'd like to do something that's valuable and meaningful and important.

I mean, guys that walk around in white jackets with stethoscopes, we all, you know, think are pretty cool.

And I thought that that was the route I wanted to.

Wanted to go.

And by the time I got to high school, and I was kind of rebellious in high school, I went to biology classes, and I was not.

I did not have the aptitude for it.

You know, I had an aptitude for the girl that sat in front of me.

You know, I mean, I had a crush on her, but in terms of the class, I didn't get it.

But I would start taking journalism classes.

And my journalism instructor said, hey, Bill, you know, every year, and this is approaching the senior year, all the guys that take the pictures for the almanac, it's like this big book.

At the end of the year, they do, like a senior slideshow.

And what if you'd be willing to produce that?

You know, you're in the news, editor of the paper.

Could you do that?

I said, sure, sure.

I'd be happy to do that.

Well, I started sifting through the pictures.

And then there was a university student from one of the local universities, and he was.

He was a major in multimedia.

Multimedia.

Who knows what multimedia was?

But he introduced me to this technology where you could take pictures and sync them to music, you know, make it dissolve and kind of.

It's like video editing, except it was using multiple slide projectors and images.

So technologically, it was.

It was fascinating.

And I realized how cool the process was.

And all those story skills that I learned as a child watching classic movies, I was able to apply to the story of my class.

And I got to use great classic music and all those different things.

And the process was fun.

It was just like.

Just fed me.

Even now, as I tell you, I mean, it's been years, and I still get chills because it was a revelation of the process and a recognition that, unlike biology and medicine, I seem to have an aptitude for it.

It's so important when you talk about purpose and meaning, find that aptitude.

But the key was that this was the big moment.

Big moment was the day that we showed it in the auditorium for all the kids.

And so we're in the auditorium, lights go dark.

There's about 1500 kids in this high school, and the music hits, and the first slide happens.

And I will say the first slide was intended to be humorous and Boom.

The place broke out in laughter.

And I'm standing on the side watching.

And then it got to a part where I was, like, telling a little bit of the story, and I could tell people were kind of leaning into it and watching.

And then there was a part that it was kind of tender and thoughtful.

You guys.

It blew me away because I'm looking at these people in the audience.

Yeah.

And tears are welling up in their eyes.

Wow.

And tears start running down my cheeks.

Wow.

I realized in that moment that in a sea and you know, when you go to school, it's like a sea of humanity.

You might have a couple good friends and you have a handful of acquaintances, and then there's just a sea of humanity.

You don't know who these people are.

Yeah, true.

Right?

That's true.

But in that moment, I had an intimate relationship with 1500 people.

Right?

Yeah.

Who at one time were just faces, but now there were people.

I had a chance to touch their heart.

Holy smokes.

Powerful.

It changed me.

I feel it right now.

Yeah.

And that's the power of the arts.

That's the power of storytelling.

It's the power of music.

Is that, wow.

There's joy in the process, and there's joy in the creativity.

There's joy in the journey and the discover.

There's something intensely powerful in the connection we can make with another human being.

Amen.

And that's what I felt, and that's the joy I see in some of the greatest artists I work with is, yeah.

There's an industry, there's a business, there's a lot of things going around, but at the heart of it is an artist that has a story to tell and a life they can change.

Exactly.

Yeah.

Wow.

You nailed it.

Does that get any easier for you?

Because there's a vulnerability there to when you're creating that you're not sure.

Just because you love it doesn't necessarily mean everyone's gonna love it.

And in that moment, you knew you got validation right away from everyone in the auditorium that your creative work or your art was.

Was received well.

Do you get nervous at all debuting or showing anybody your creative work now these days, after years and years of doing it?

Yes and no.

I think everybody wants to be liked.

No one wants to have that green and say, well, hi, how are you?

And they go, well, great.

You suck.

No one wants that engagement.

And so we all want to be approved.

We all desperately want to be loved and to love.

So that's part of the human experience.

But as an artist, you have to grow in courage.

It doesn't mean that you still aren't fearful.

It doesn't mean that you're still not vulnerable.

In fact, I don't think you can be the purest of artists unless you are vulnerable.

I wholeheartedly agree.

So you've gotta be there.

But to be able to come out of that shell and say, I'm going to share something that's intimate.

I'm going to share something that's a part of my story that I think could connect.

And I understand I might share something that you might not like, but I'm going to be courageous enough because I believe that what I have to share has value to someone.

And so I'm going to be faithful to the process, to show up.

Faithful to the process.

Wow.

Yeah.

That's huge.

Wow.

Is that one of the.

Was that one of your takeaways at that point?

I'm just trying to picture this.

I'm still on this auditorium full of students, and I'm picturing you in that moment, like, seeing the reaction, feeling their reaction.

You mentioned laughter and tears.

So you've taken them on, like, a whole ride of emotions, and you're feeling them with.

You're feeling the same emotions with them.

Yeah.

What did you take away from that moment?

Were you hooked?

Or was it something where you went back to doing other things?

Like, is that the moment that drew you into where you.

The direction that you took?

Well, definitely, I was hooked.

And a lot of times we have profound experiences that still lack definition.

True.

And I think that's an important part about our life experience, is that we feel things and we experience things, but we might not define what happened there, what really happened there.

That's a lot of life.

I'm still doing that.

And I think that's okay to.

Again, that courage thing, to walk down that road of discovery knowing that as much as we want control, as much as we want to know where we're going and know what we're doing, and we praise those people that are so decisive, and they say, oh, I know where I'm going.

Oh, that's a bunch of bs.

There's some people know what they're doing, and there's some things of which I am a master of my craft in certain areas.

And I tell my team, you asked me about this.

Look, I've been doing this for decades.

I'm really good at this, and I can answer those questions, but there's a whole bunch of stuff I don't know.

And we're gonna have to endure the process of discovery as we do it.

Even like doing the show.

I mean, congratulations for having the guts and the conviction to say, we're gonna do this show, we're gonna bring on guests, and we're gonna discover what it takes to make a good show and what it takes to bring on good guests.

And how do we promote this and how do we market this?

And da, da.

Yeah.

I'm gonna guess that you didn't have doctorate degrees in social media broadcast show.

Production from Guess what gave it away, man.

Guess what?

You're earning it now.

Oh, wow.

And you're earning it because you're courageous enough to show up, faithful in the process, and fail forward.

So did you say courageous or crazy enough?

I wasn't sure.

Right.

Yeah, no, that's true.

Thank you for that.

And look along with that.

And again, I go back to that auditorium.

I didn't have definition at that time.

It unfolded to me.

But as much as I say courage is a big piece of it, the crazy thing about artists is sometimes before we have courage, we have passion.

And that passion can compel us to do crazy things that our logical mind would say, don't do that.

You're going to get hurt.

You're going to look stupid, you're going to be rejected, you're gonna be.

That's.

Yeah.

But, man, if you can combine courage and passion, watch out.

Yeah.

Wow.

Because it means you'll show up and it means you'll get better, and it means you'll grow.

And also you'll find your audience.

Yeah.

You know?

Yeah, you'll find your audience, and it's what you're doing.

And again, I applaud you for what you're doing.

Yeah.

Thank you very much.

We appreciate the kind words, especially from someone as established as yourself.

So from the moment you realized that you loved what you were doing in that auditorium, how do you go about then pursuing a career as a creative director?

What was that decision like?

And do you remember any defining moment where you're like, this is the role I need to be in?

I wish there was and there wasn't.

You know, a lot of people are talking about Wicked right now.

It's a movie that's really hot because based upon the wizard of Oz, I'll tell you, you know, a lot of my journey has been like, the wizard of Oz.

You know, somewhere I know there's an emerald City.

Okay.

And I know there's a path to get there.

And, oh, it's, gee, it's a yellow brick road.

But, like, A lot of emerald cities and yellow bricks roads.

We know there's a general path, but we get to these intersections and they demand, want a decision.

And it's always great if you have a mentor now, hopefully it's a little bit better than a scarecrow or tin man or.

But the bottom line is that great mentorship helps us with intersections.

There's going to be a lot of them between that.

I think this is the road.

And that was the same thing for me.

I came away from that experience loving the process, loving the way of impacting, but I didn't have definition.

So what did I take from that?

And this is the dangerous leap that some of us make.

It automatically means I'm supposed to be a television reporter.

Got it?

Okay.

Why?

Because I put context.

I was the news editor of the paper.

I was on the speech team and.

And I loved this process.

Yeah, I was supposed to be a television reporter.

So I then enrolled in a junior college to study television production.

Wow.

And so I go there thinking I'm going to learn how I'm going to be a better writer and I'm going to get that.

Yeah.

But then what happened was I started taking the classes where you have to direct things, studio direction and things like that.

Was I a good writer?

Yeah, I was an okay writer.

Was I an okay producer?

Yeah, I was an okay producer.

Was I a technical genius?

Because a lot of television stuff at technical.

Not really.

Not at all.

I mean, there's some people that geek out about it.

I was not that guy.

But I was doing a broadcast and I decided I wanted to do everything.

I want to do music videos, I want to do news shows, I want to do documentaries.

I want everything I could take, I was doing.

And my professor was watching me one day and we're doing a live show and something fell through because a story didn't happen.

And I began to call Cameron, say, okay, now camera two, take two.

Ready camera one, take one.

They were going to do watch on camera three.

Raise camera take three.

And I did.

And I called the show and it was very instinctive.

It sounds glamorous, but it's one step above playing Mario Brothers like a video game.

And this is also a defining moment for me.

But it came with definition.

The other one was pure feeling.

This was definition because the head of our department had been in television for years and he semi retired to come back and teach us kids how to do tv.

And he pulled me and he says, bill, I just want you to know that I've watched you in the class.

And I would say that you are one of the most gifted directors we've ever had in the program.

Huge.

That's huge.

So there's really importance of what he said.

One, he let me know I had a gift, but then he gave me definition.

He said, you are a director.

Right.

I never thought of myself as a director.

Crazy, but he says, you gifted director.

And that gave me that boost to say, what could I be as a director?

Right.

Okay.

And so I continued trying to hone my skills, directing everything I could.

But I gotta tell you, a lot of people think, oh, and you launched this exciting career on television.

You were so decisive.

I was on a.

On a podcast, actually, earlier this week.

And it's a great show with a guy named Jordan Mendoza, and it's called blazing your trail, which kind of gives you that idea.

I'm sitting there with a blowtorch going, boom.

I'm kicking butt and taking names.

You know, me doing it, whatever.

That's not how it happened, okay?

Remember, there's.

There's a young kid that's passionate, right?

And I just got a boost of courage because my instructor gave me some confidence and clarity I'd never had at that level.

And a buddy calls me who's in my class, and he had gotten an internship at the ABC affiliate in our region.

He says, hey, Bill, he goes, Thursday nights are taping a show.

And they said I could bring friends in.

Would you like to come?

I said, are you serious?

Because even though I thought television cool, I had never actually been in a television studio, a real job.

I've been college studios, you know.

But, you know, when I grow up, I want to be a student.

Now, this was real.

And so I thought about it, said, yeah, I'll be there.

And then.

And it was about two days before it.

And I will tell you, the more I thought about it, the more terrified I got.

Because, you know, you've seen like, movies or things like that where someone walks in and says, oh, you'll never work in this town again.

And I thought, I'm gonna walk there and they're going to see me and they're going to go, what are you?

Who are you?

You're not good enough.

You're not smart enough, you're not cool enough.

You're not.

Blah, blah, blah.

I could go down the list.

Some of those things were things that were implied to me by my father as a little kid, by people.

And the trouble is that some of those things that we hear as a child might have happened once and they can create scars, but the danger is, is that they become an echo chamber with our own voice.

Now, you're not good enough.

You're not smart enough.

You're not talented enough.

You're not connected enough.

You go down the list of every lie you've ever heard, and we repeat it to ourselves over and over again.

And here I was, on the verge of having the opportunity of my life.

Right?

Yeah.

And the echo chamber emerged, Right?

So I went to my mom.

Yeah.

I said, mom, I got a situation where I'm going to this TV station and I'm trying to think, what should I say?

What should I do?

Whatever.

Ever.

And she gave me the best worst advice ever.

Okay, what was that?

She said, billy, just be yourself.

I knew it.

That's the motherly advice.

Yeah, Mom.

Oh, gosh.

But then I had a revelation.

Now, have you guys ever heard of Famous Amos cookies?

Yes.

Famous Amos.

A lot of people don't know.

Famous Amos was a casting director in Hollywood.

I had no idea.

Wow.

Okay.

And his signature is.

He would show up on the set with a bag of cookies.

Oh, wow.

And there we go.

And there we go.

Famous Amos.

Of course, everybody loved Famous.

Famous Amos was a great character.

He was a fun guy, very talented guy.

But he also made pretty good cookies.

And someone eventually told him, you sell those cookies.

And that's how Famous Amos became a popular brand for us.

But I was thinking, wait a minute.

I make good chocolate chip cookies.

I could do that.

So an hour before I left for the TV station, I had made a batch of hot chocolate chip cookies.

Wow.

Okay.

And then I had this kind of Famous Amos moment.

And I wrote on the bag, bill's famous chocolate chip cookies.

Okay.

Yeah.

Put that on the bag.

And I made it like a stick figure.

Very rudimentary, very rude.

Clearly, I did not have design skills, but I had heart skills.

So I think I'm gonna go to the station, I'm gonna give people hot chocolate chip cookies.

And I get to the.

To the TV station.

And to my horror, it wasn't just me.

It was two other guys from my class that.

That my friend Don had invited.

The one guy he invited, he was a veteran.

He was there going to school on the GI Bill, older than me, crazy confident.

He walks in, he sees a producer, and he's like, hey, great to meet you.

Love your TV station, Love your show, blah, blah, blah.

And I'm like, I can't be Mike.

I'm not him.

There's no way.

And I'm having Mike envy.

And Now I'm.

All the echoes are coming back.

And then the producer turns to Jeff to my left.

Now, Jeff was like the class nerd, and he knew everything about technology.

And he immediately goes, you know, here's my best Jeff voice.

Excuse me.

It sounds horrible, but it's done in love.

He goes, oh, I see you have the XY3300 switcher there, and you have the 4700 monitor system.

So 7.

I know plenty of those.

I know plenty of Jeffs.

Yeah.

Oh, that is funny.

Yeah, yeah.

And the music.

There's a lot of technology, you know.

Dang.

And I'm thinking, I can't be Jeff.

So I am now just shrunk between these two pillars of confidence and technological wizardry.

And the producer looks at me, and all I could get out of my mouth was, hi, I'm Bill.

Would you like a cookie?

Not the way you had rehearsed it in your mind.

All I said, as nervous as could be.

But the bag, you could smell the cookies.

They were wafting out.

And he reached and he pulled out a cookie, and the chocolate chips were still melty.

He takes the bite.

He goes, oh, these are great.

So he calls over the technical director says, hey, there's this kid from college.

You brought some cookies.

Would you like one?

He goes, yeah.

So I walk over the technical director, and he reaches in the bag and he reads the bag.

He goes, well, thank you, Bill.

And he goes to the audio director and says, hey, would you like.

Yeah.

And they go, thank you, Bill.

And he calls down to the studio, the magical world where all this stuff happens, where all these people, engineers and producers and the host, the talent, people I've been watching on television for years, are now in their makeup on, getting ready.

And he calls down on the microphone, by the way, that's the vog, the voice of God.

Hey, we got this kid up here.

He's got hot chocolate chip cookies.

Anybody want some hot chocolate chip cookies?

Cookies?

Yeah.

Bring them down.

I go down and I walk into the studio, and I see these heroes, these celebrities.

First time I've seen a celebrity in my life.

And I walk over with my bag, and they, thank you, Bill.

Wow.

Thank you, Bill.

Thank you, Bill.

And I walked up that night again.

I was like, chill, taking a breath, didn't want to screw up.

And when I was done, I was all out of cookies.

And as I walked out the door, the producer said, hey, Bill, you're coming back next week, right?

I said, yeah.

So I came back for six consecutive weeks.

Wow.

Now, keep in mind, I'm 20 years old.

Right.

Okay.

I'm in the middle school, and after six weeks, the producer comes to me and he says, bill, he says, we have a stack of intern apps at my desk about that thick for people who want to be the summer intern.

He said, but, hey, everybody knows you.

Everybody likes it.

He goes, if you want to be the summer intern of our show, it's yours.

Wow.

I'm making cookies tomorrow.

Tomorrow?

For who?

I became that intern 90 day internship.

And on the 91st day, I was hired.

Wow.

Wow.

To work for that ABC affiliate and within two years became one of the youngest major market directors in the country.

Really?

That Mike and Jeff.

Yeah.

Be yourself.

Yeah, be yourself.

So as a beautiful story, did you continue to bring the cookies or was it just one week?

Do you use that in all introductions now?

All through my internship, I did.

And then occasionally.

Now, here's the thing that's funny is that that story, at its heart, really, it's a story about being you yourself.

Yeah, exactly.

And bringing value, using your life as a gift.

And sometimes your gift is a.

It could be a smile, it could be an encouraging word.

It could be a cookie.

Right.

And you have to decide what that is.

But coming into that.

And again, I realized that later, but with my clients, a lot of them were saying, where are we going to get these cookies?

So I started baking cookies for my clients.

And this Christmas, again, some of my clients got jars of cookies.

And I ended up.

They shared with their employees.

And I made a website called Bills Famous cookies dot com.

And all it is is I just tell that story.

Yeah.

That's awesome.

Wow.

And that ties it all together because, I mean, you didn't mention on here, but, like, from.

From your book.

I think you made a mention in the book of.

Yeah, I think I did.

With your mom.

So now I'm thinking of the story within the story.

And then you have the story of what's in your head, which I never thought of it that way.

We all have things that we've heard as a child and these things that echo.

So that's like an inner story.

I still will say that it was you that showed up.

And obviously it wasn't the cookies that got you the opportunity, but they did open up the door.

I think actually the cookies may have helped defeat the inner story that you were playing in your head.

So then they could see you and you could be more comfortable being yourself.

So that's.

I mean, moms always say, be yourself.

You know, like, come on, that's.

The last thing I want to be right now.

That's what got me asking you this question.

But at the end of the day, it's you that Sean did shine through and, you know, the rest is history.

It's really cool.

Thanks for sharing that part of your story with us.

And now.

And the cookies still are a part of your life.

Yeah.

That's amazing.

Cool.

I can't wait to try one.

Yeah.

Oh, man, I wanna.

I know we don't have a ton of time and there are some other things I think I'll be bold enough to say that we'll have to have you back because there is a lot that I want to go through with you.

So I don't want to start on something that we can't finish today.

I do want to mention the book once again, and I do not want to mention the title.

Up the seven Disciplines of Relationship Marketing.

I've read a lot of marketing books and a lot of business books, and this one, let me just say it's different, your approach to marketing.

There's like a.

There's like.

Like a theory that I think that you've created in here.

Just you've tied some things together that don't usually go together in this way.

And that's just because I think you called it Jesus marketing, actually.

Was that the term?

Well, a lot of people have called it that, I think, because at the root of it, it goes back to a death experience that I had that definitely changed my life.

In fact, I say a lot that I wish everybody could die and then come back.

Okay.

Because it would change how you live.

I can't even imagine.

I can't imagine.

And keep in mind, a lot of us have death experiences.

Sometimes it's the death of a relationship, the death of our finances, sometimes the death of a dream.

Yeah.

Wow.

Yes.

In some cases a physical death.

And I actually have physical death where my heart stopped.

And the thing that.

Among many lessons that comes from that is I went back to my childhood years and said, you know, who are the heroes of my faith or growing up?

And when I started to think about, wait a minute, how do I put this together?

I've had this profound after death experience, this encounter face to face with God.

I've come back now, but yet I've grown up in this media and marketing.

What does this mean?

You know, it's kind of like the ingredients of a salad no one's ever made before.

And you have to say, is this really something?

And the book came about in part because I Realized that one of the greatest things that every human being has is this deep desire to love and be loved.

And we find different ways one to love, and we find different ways to receive and to desire love.

But the only way you can have that is in relationship.

Yes, in your relationship, to have that.

And it seems pretty obvious, but I think we forget that, especially when we apply it to business, because we look at, I hit the, you know, the sales mark, or I look at the bottom line or, you know, what's that checkbox.

But behind every one of those things is a life.

That said, I value this relationship and I'm willing to invest in it because of what I believe in you and what I believe the outcome will be with me.

What will I experience, what transformation will I experience?

And if I'm going to get an outcome or a transformation, which, by the way, applies to every artist, is that every artist, when someone buys your record or goes to your concert or listens to your music, there's an outcome or transformation that someone believes they will experience through that.

And it may be subtle and it may be profound, but it is one of the profound gifts that artists and entrepreneurs can give to other people.

And so if you come back to that and now move that past a transaction to really think about transformation, and that transformation happens in relationship.

Yeah.

What does that look like?

And of course, one of the greatest heroes of relationship, a certain person named Jesus.

In fact, not just a hero of transformational relationships, but I'd have to say that, and I say this respectfully.

Some people see it as sacrilegious, so forgive me.

Some people might go, that's horrible.

You can't do that.

But look at Jesus, the author of the.

If not one of the greatest revolutions in the history of mankind.

I mean, he created, not just he did his market, like, hey, you should read the gospel.

He created a movement that has continued, continued on for hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of years.

And there's a few people that you can say this life represented a movement.

And so what I did to create this book was I actually went back and I reverse engineered what I saw in the life of Christ.

And I looked at all those steps that he took.

I tried to separate myself from any kind of spiritual connotation yet.

But just say, what are the physics of this?

And the physics of it produced what I call seven disciplines that when you do them, they're like gears in a watch or gears in a fine engine that a lot of cases like marketing and media, we get a gear and we think oh, this is it.

You know, get a gear and.

Oh, this is it.

Power is the interconnection and working of the gears.

It's the harmony of them coming together that produces energy and power and velocity that could never be experienced without this powerful combination.

And that's what the seven disciplines does.

I went, oh, my gosh.

Gosh, it's mind blowing.

So that's really.

I can't say I wrote it.

I didn't invent it.

It was really a discovery of reverse engineering, the greatest communicator in the face of the earth.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It's brilliant.

That's.

It's brilliant.

You have to read it, I guess.

Yeah, we'll.

We'll drop some links of where you could find the book and all that stuff.

It's definitely a highly recommended read by us on this podcast, at least.

Yeah.

And one of the things I like from it too is you mentioned not the golden rule, but the Platinum rule.

And I really like this for business, for relationship in general, because the golden rule is do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

The Platinum Rule.

And I don't want to mess it up because I'm sitting here with the man himself that wrote it.

Is paraphrase, just to be safe is basically, you're not going to worry about what you're going to get back for it.

You're going to do unto others what they would like done onto them.

Right, Exactly.

Regardless of the return.

Right.

It's not, it's not a give and take in this point.

You have something in you to give, and that's what I'm giving you.

Understanding that the rest will come back by whatever means.

So, yeah, that's.

I mean, there's so many takeaways from that book.

Definitely, like I said, highly recommended.

Read that book, find it.

And.

And you go into a little bit more detail too, because that fact, I think is really weird to hear someone say, you hear, you know, your own voice.

I heard your voice say when I died.

It's like, that's not, that's.

That's a whole mental trip just to hear someone talk about their death.

Right.

Okay.

I know we don't have a lot of time to go into that sounds.

Like the next show.

That's why I'm like, how do I not continue on a whole paths where I'm like, sorry, about time.

We got to keep talking.

This was our intro to Bill Dolan and then part two.

We'll thank experience.

Yeah, I know he's a busy guy, but if he could come back.

That would be tremendous, because I literally have questions about that, only specifically that.

But before I get you out here, just because this is the intro to us actually, in our audience, actually getting to meet you.

And for someone that doesn't know any or much about being a creative director, I'm just curious, what are some of the essential qualities you believe for someone to be a successful creative director?

Well, I would say, actually, you touched on it earlier, Dee.

It's vulnerability.

That first part is vulnerability.

Because to truly be creative in a way that connects with other lives means that you need to be empathetic.

You need to feel.

When I'm doing marketing pieces for corporations and organizations, I mean, we have our classic question.

I always ask a leader if I'm working with a CEO, and they say, bill, we want to engage you to do a project.

Help us tell our brand story better.

Help us do a sales kickoff for our team and help bring the brand to life there.

I can do that.

But I really want to know, for those people, that's your audience that you feel called to serve, what do you want them to know?

What do you want them to feel, and what do you want them to do?

If you can define those three things, the no part really has to do with what I call the front left cortex.

What will you take away and say, here's my list, my checklist.

Know this, but the feeling part is really addressing the limbic system.

It's one of the great mysteries of the human mind where so much contains.

And some psychologists would say that actually the limbic and the feeling system makes up 90% of our brain function that we feel intensely and always without definition.

It's only with definition that it comes to the front cortex.

And you can say, oh, that was pain, or that was hurt, or that was desire, or that was hunger.

You know, we feel those things.

Of course, if you want to see what a pure limbic system is, look at a baby.

You know, is it there?

They know they need to eat, they need to go to the bathroom.

They need.

But they want to be held, they want to be loved.

And so all they can do is coo and cry.

It's kind of what a lot of humans are doing most of the time, just in their own little special way.

But when you get that definition, a great creative director is able to think both very empathetically but also strategically, because my creative usually has an outcome, right?

Yes, it really does.

There's a season where I am cooing and crying as an artist, but There is a powerful transformation when I become a creative director because now I'm making sounds and experiences that have a strategic objective.

And by the way, there are creative directors who are doing things that are hurting people.

Just being a creative director doesn't make you a good person.

You still have to say, am I operating within a purpose and a value system?

Right.

That's true.

That you have to ask that question, am I doing this for you or am I doing this for me?

Yeah.

And there's a lot of creative that is brilliantly done, that is designed for the well being of the company, the corporation or that creative director because of what they want out of it.

Right.

And what they want you to do for them, like pay me, you know.

But then there's the creative director.

And I believe this is a place I pray all of us ascend to, is the recognition.

And we'll talk about this in our next time because we will get together again.

I love it.

Beautiful.

And I'll say this, and it's probably a good place to pause on for what I would call great creative direction.

And it's this.

That today when you woke up and you were conscious of taking a breath, I just want to emphasize you didn't do anything really to earn that breath.

You're right.

You didn't buy it, you did it.

I can't say even earned it or deserved it.

Right.

That that breath was a gift.

And.

I believe a gift from the divine.

And more than just a gift to say, I want you to have life today, but I want you to use this life I gave you today because you have a purpose, you have meaning, you have value.

And that value is realized in the value that you can bring to other lives.

Absolutely.

Wow, that's beautiful.

We get to do that.

Most people get to do that every day in some form.

Yeah.

But I know this program and people in your audience about creatives and we'll tell you the depth of a creative gift to be able to that timer, I'll say, oh, you're going to want me to stop here?

We had set a timer.

The gift that a creative can give can not only touch the depths of the human heart in a way that nothing else can, but through the power of media, that gift that you create can impact millions.

Yes.

There's an ethical value system that I see in great creative directors because it's no longer about validating me, it's about what I can give to this world and what kind of powerful impact can make on this world.

And when a creative director Grasps that we're no longer just doing creative work.

We're world changers.

That's deep.

What a way to start the year.

I mean, this is our first episode of 25, and the whole thing has been amazing.

But that chunk right there is definitely something that we could all take and say, this is something I'm going to start each day remembering that breath wasn't earned.

It's not promised.

There's no guarantee on it even be grateful for them.

What more do we have than to be grateful?

We're grateful for you, Bill.

We thank you so much for your time.

Appreciate you guys so much.

Much thanks for having me.

I want you to shout out Spirit Media, your company, if you could maybe just quickly let people know where to find you.

Also, I am curious if you could let us know what type of.

Because you mentioned you work with corporations.

What type of companies would be fitting to reach out to you and just stuff like that so people can get in touch?

Well, sure, I appreciate that.

I mean, our.

Our agency is spiritmedia.com and that's where you can reach me.

And that's where a lot of our work, we produce a lot of brand stories for companies.

People need to tell their story well.

They need to tell them efficiently and in an engaging way.

And that's really our gift.

And so when people want to tell their story through video and short stories or maybe even explainer videos, we do that exceptionally well.

The other thing is because of my entertainment background, you mentioned Gwen Stefani.

I've worked with the Black Eyed Peas.

I've worked with Maroon 5.

I produce a lot of shows on a large scale.

So we're really good at understanding the tools and experiences that we can help brands really come to life.

And so we also do events for companies, whether they're product launches, sales events, sales gatherings, even corporate launches.

And a lot of the folks that like to work with us are especially those B2B firms that are doing things at a high level.

And they recognize that the value of having a great brand experience, both internally and externally, is intensely valuable.

And they also realize the cost of doing a mediocre job is going to undermine their value, undermine their belief, undermine the performance of their team.

So when they come to us, they say, in fact, I gotta give credit to a friend of mine.

I used to work with a guy from Warner Brothers, and he was a lighting director for our shows.

And he always taught me early on, he said, let people walk into the living embodiment of their brand.

And when you think about some of the greatest artists and the greatest performers.

They have learned how to let people walk into not just an arena, not just a stage, but to walk into the living embodiment of that brand where they feel to their soul.

And a great brand experience, like a great entertainment show tattoos your psyche in a way that you will never forget.

And that's what we help companies do.

Wow.

That's beautiful.

That's amazing.

Again, thank you so much for your time.

Thank you for sharing that.

Yeah, you are.

You're a gift man.

You're a blessing.

You've been a blessing to chat with and I'm a true blessing to, I'm sure everyone who's going to listen to this and everything else that you've put out there.

So, yeah, thanks again.

We'll definitely keep in touch and follow your journey and look out for some more cool, interesting, mind blowing and thought provoking products and projects from you.

We'll do a part two in the near future.

Thank you so much.

God bless you.

Appreciate you so much.

Until next time, everybody stay safe.

Happy New Year.

Yes.

Amen.

Anthony.

I love you, buddy.

Talk to you guys.