**** Producer's Note: The following is a general transcript of LCC Connect's weekly radio program. Contents include but may not be limited to podcasts, program imaging, announcements, and PSAs. More detailed and accurate transcripts of the podcast episodes featured in this broadcast can be found at LCCconnect.com or by following the links provided in the show notes of this episode. ****

When we started LCC Connect in 2022, our aim was to create a podcast network that connects our college with the community and our community with the college. Since then, we've expanded to offer more than 30 podcasts, all of which are hosted by members of Lansing Community College or folks within our Mid Michigan community. This is Dalia. I'm the general manager for LCC Connect, and today I'm delighted to be joined by someone whose impact spans across campus and now across our podcast network, Dr. Cynthia Rooker. She serves as LCC's director of auxiliary Services. She is also the college's Institutional representative for the Michigan ACE Women's Network, and she's an adjunct instructor of Business Management and Leadership in the School of Business. As if that wasn't enough, she's now adding yet another hat to her collection as the host of the brand new LCC Connect podcast code called Leading the Women in Higher Education. It's a series that highlights the stories, insights, and leadership journeys of women shaping the future of academia. Starting January 13th, you can listen to it@lccconnect.com or wherever you get your podcasts. Now let's take a look behind the curtain to find out what's happening behind the connection. So you got back from Florida, what was it? Monday.

When did I get back?

Monday.

Tuesday, maybe Tuesday.

Tuesday.

Well, Tuesday's the. I saw you, right?

Tuesday, yeah.

So you got back from Florida on Tuesday?

Monday. Monday afternoon. And then I came in on Tuesday.

Gotcha. So why were you down there again?

Our daughter graduated with her doctorate in nurse research.

That is absolutely awesome.

It is. I mean, she's been in Tampa seven years, something like that, and she's just done amazing. When she graduated from U of M Nursing school, she was doing amazing things there. I mean, incredible. But when she graduated, she was like, mom, I'm going to Florida. I am not going to take this cold anymore. And I'm in a career that I can go anywhere. So, yeah, she's in Tampa, Florida. I think her then friend who's now her husband, had a little encouragement behind that, but at that time, she was seeing somebody else. Now they've been married, it'll be three years, going on four years.

Very cool. Well, I'm assuming that you'll share this episode with her and that she'll listen at some point. So I'll say congratulations to you.

Yeah.

How did you feel when you. You actually got to go to the ceremony, Right?

Oh, yeah.

So how'd you feel?

I was just goosebumps. It was just incredible to See her, you know, it was a great accomplishment. She's just done so much, like I mentioned, but that's just such a milestone, you know, I mean, her perseverance, her commitment, the support that she received from her facult people that she works with as well. I mean, it takes a whole community and she's just, she's just blossomed. She's just grown since she's been there too. She's an amazing daughter anyway, and she's just really networked. She's really used her networking skills to the highest level. She just continues to reach out. I mean, education, professionally, personally. She's just done very, very well for herself. So very, very proud of her. And yeah, it's a milestone to celebrate that. It's not an easy task at all. So when she was going across and they hooded her, I'm just like, oh my God. That's just. That's just huge because I can remember that. And just like it's a long journey in so many different ways, but she's doing great things.

Absolutely awesome. And congratulations again.

Thank you.

This is one of those things too, that you and I have talked before or we've known each other for quite a while, and then all of a sudden I hear somebody refer to you as Dr. Rooker. So when did you obtain your doctorate?

That was 2019. Because my mom wasn't here. She had passed that time that year. Yeah. So thanks. So, yeah, 2019. Yeah. So it's been a while.

So was there a moment where you kind of felt connected to your daughter because you both shared this kind of same experience?

Ye. It was not something that she said, oh, this is what I always wanted to do. And I mean the same for me. She has seen me as she was growing up. She has seen me get through my bachelor's, my master's. Yeah. She literally saw all the times that I would have class at night and you know, dad's taking care of her and her brother. And I think it was my master's program. It was always the same night on a Monday night every week.

And.

And for whatever reason big time wrestling was on or something, she's like, and I gotta watch this with the guys, whatever. And so this goes way back. Cause she was mid-90s.

So can you put a name with any of the big time wrestlers that'll give us some perspective. Was Hogan still in the game at that time?

Probably.

I mean, it wasn't like Iron Chic territory.

Right.

Or Bobo Brazil. Right, Right.

Well, now you're really going back.

Yeah. Oh, yeah.

Well, cool.

Congratulations once. That's awesome. And actually, congratulations to you because I don't think I ever had a chance to say it. Just like I said, all of a sudden we're in a meeting, and one day somebody refers to you, Dr. Rooker, and I'm like, I had no idea.

When was this? What happened? No, thank you.

And you do a lot of stuff here at the college, and feel free to correct me if I get any of these titles wrong. Director of auxiliary services, M.I. aCE representative. And you're also an adjunct faculty member, is that correct?

Yes.

So how do these different roles connect in your mind? How do they all kind of come together and seem to have a similarity?

Yeah, they're all threaded. It all starts, obviously with students. Students are number one. And every role that I do here at the college, my leadership roles, adjunct faculty, obviously, but it's all connected with students and helping students, working with students and advocate in any way that I can. But y. That's always with students and then serving the college community in any role that I can within lcc. And so within Auxiliary services, I always say it's kind of the back of the house where, you know, with food service and so forth. So helping with students and the different models that we have right now, obviously with the grab and go that we have and before, when we had table to serve, where we would serve them, we had, you know, a contracted company. And then Covid. And so then we went to a different model. And so this model right now seems to work. And we also have food trucks coming in every semester. At least a couple, two or three different food trucks for students. The threat of that is servant leadership. Students. I go back to communication and serving the community as best.

We'll say you go back to communication because that was a question we talked about off mic. But yeah, you said that if you had a superpower, communication would be your superpower.

Yeah. Yeah. It's always a challenge Sometimes. Not always, but it can be a challenge on, you know, if I communicate something, it might be a different. You might get a different perspective from it. So that's where like, wow. If you could make sure that this communication is clear as can be exactly.

What it is that I want it to mean.

Yes, yes, that would be great.

Although sometimes I think we're best guarding the thoughts that are going through our heads. So there is that. It's been, what, 39 years? Is that what you said? 39 years? Something like that?

Something like that?

Or did you want me. Do you want me to Go ahead.

And edit that part out.

You've been with the college for a.

Long time, since the first president.

Yeah.

Since Cannon.

Is there some defining leadership moments that have shaped you over the years? You look back and you go, wow, that really has helped me to become who I am.

I'd have to say some of the mentors that I've had through the years and some of the leaders that have helped guide me through the years, even some bosses where I know I'm not going to be that kind of a boss, that kind of thing, you know, what you're not going to be and what you will, and then to take some other leadership traits from other leaders that definitely I want to continue. So I think mentorship and some of the. The good leaders that I've had throughout my career that I've watched and kind of tapped into. So that has helped me, I think, through the years being here.

Yeah, I guess I could see that. We were talking a little bit about some of the leaders off mic, and I think the current administration's doing a great job, and I know that in some ways that's connected to the Michigan ACE as far as how you got involved. Is that correct?

Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. And, I mean, Dr. Selena Samuel, she's definitely one of the leaders that has helped me to get more involved with Michigan ace. And I attribute a lot to her leadership, her vision. She's been phenomenal in all of this, and it's just been a real honor to work with her, putting on the conference and then some of the Michigan ACE events that we have on campus. And she's just great to work with because she's got this, you know, vision of what she wants it to be like. And sometimes it'll be like, okay, let's come to reality. Let's really talk about this. Is this something we can do? Or, you know, and we'll put pieces together here and there, but she's just been. She's just been great. She's phenomenal to work with. I holistically love working with her. She's just great. So cool.

And I love the fact that you've actually kind of, in some ways, created a podcast based on the concept. We will get to that in just a moment. But of course, Michigan Ace focuses on elevating women as leaders. Right, right. So what exactly drew you to the work that the organization does? Like, what made you look at it and go, you know, I really like what this organization's about, and I do.

I really like how they encourage women, they support women, and Help them and guide them to, if they want to pursue something different within their careers, meet them basically where they're at, right? So as far as with this podcast, it came to my mind basically because I listen to podcasts every day on my way in and on my way home, and I learn from them. I connect with some of those people that I'm listening to. I mean, some of the stories are just heart wrenching. And then the courage that a lot of people have to tell their story where millions of people are listening to some of these podcasts, right? And so when we were talking about, you know, like something in reference to Michigan Ace and women in leadership roles, how can we, what else can we do for them? Was like, well, let's tell their stories. Let's get their voices heard, you know, amplify and tell their story of where they're at, what's going on in education. So that's where it really came from, was, gee, I, I think we need to tell some of these stories. And let's talk about this. People love podcasts, right? They've been around for a while, but I'm definitely a fan of podcasts.

Well, you managed to unpack probably the next two to three questions that I really kind of wanted to ask, which is perfectly fine. You kind of gave us an idea of what the inspiration behind it was as well as what the heart of the show is. And I've had the chance to kind of sit in on these conversations so far. And you've been talking with university presidents, faculty, staff, a lot of people that are considered leaders of their areas. So what kind of stories and insights are you really kind of hoping to uncover with this?

Yeah, I really hope to uncover some of the people's stories of how they started some of their challenges so that it resonates with others, people that are listening so they can feel like, oh, that could be me. That's what I'm thinking, or that's what I've thought or whatever, where they can feel that from the conversation of, oh, yeah, I've thought about this and perhaps maybe I could connect with that person or that organization and see if there's somebody that I can connect with, network with to see if that's somewhere I can go within the organization. The networking with the Michigan AC is incredible. One of my interviewees mentioned something about making their net work for them. And so that is very true. And it has happened with many people that I've talked with and work with within Michigan ac, which is great.

Well, and you mentioned earlier that you were kind of hoping to get the stories of those people out there and you kind of grazed over a little bit earlier. So I'm going to go back to that. In some manner. We were talking about how there have been various leaders over the years that have inspired you to become who you are. So I suppose this would be the moment where if you had to pick one of those people, who would you highlight at this moment, be it male or female, whoever it is that you have found to be an inspiration to be a leader that you've personally known.

That isn't a secret. When I tell people. Dr. Glenn Cerny, he was here at LCC before he became president. He's president of Schoolcraft Community College right now. And years back when he worked here at lcc, he also taught, I believe it was a management type class. When I was in the Northwood program, I took his class, it was evening class and I learned so much from him. In addition to that, I also worked with him on one of the committees. So I'm taking a class from him and I'm working with him during the day. So we were able to get to know each other through work and then also through the coursework. And he encouraged me to apply for the mail services supervisor at the time. And I remember saying to him, I don't know anything about postage or usps, but the cost of a post, you know, a stamp. And he said, no, you know, management. He said, no, I want you to apply for that position. So I did, and I would not have done that. And that encouraged me and I got that position and it went from there. And then there were others along the way because after I got my master's then there was another colleague that encouraged me to apply for an online instructor, which I thought, I don't know that I could do that either. And then we talked about it and it was taking the coursework for online teaching. And then I just fell in love with it and online teaching as well as face to face and. And it became something that I really loved. So every semester I've been teaching for over 20 years as well and working full time and part time. So I get my student fix as well as, you know, it's awesome.

It's almost like you kind of fell into the right place. I think there's probably a better word for that, but I mean, it just seems like you're. You found your path without actually having to look, I guess.

Well, I have to tell you, one of the amazing things about community colleges, especially Lansing Community college, I have to say, is the diversity, the flexibility and stuff is. I don't know that I could do what I'm doing right now in another institution, maybe, perhaps. But I mean, this. Working here has given me many opportunities to grow in so many different ways. And so I think community colleges are definitely places where people can find themselves to succeed.

And as you and I had discussed before you even started recording the podcast, and we still haven't even mentioned the name of the podcast, so we should do that.

We should take a moment.

Leading the way. Women in Higher Education. That's the name of the podcast. But as we had began, you were kind of like, yeah, this is really outside of my comfort zone, but that's part of the way we grow, right?

Absolutely.

So a platform like this, a podcast, why is it so important in higher education these days?

You know, we're coming into challenging times. I think right now it's not new to community colleges at all, but it is challenging times. And I think that we look at different policies and cultures that support, you know, women holistically, not just professionally, but also personally. I think this podcast, I think the timing is perfect for something like this, you know, not just within Michigan ace, but also women in higher education throughout the state of Michigan. So looking at this podcast and really wanting to take it and enhance it for women leaders throughout the state of Michigan, if not more so, I think this is great.

Very cool. And as a host yourself, what are you hoping listeners walk away with after each episode?

Wow. I hope that they walk away with a sense of belonging and support and know that we're here to listen to them. And definitely I would hope that women would reach out to me to say, you know, I heard your podcast. I think so. And so would be great. Or I would like to come on and have a conversation about, you know, this, that, or whatever. If I get something like that, I think that would definitely tell us that. Wow. Okay, we've reached.

We're doing something.

Yeah, we're doing something meaningful, impactful to people out there. That's important. That's important for people to have that sense of belonging and support.

You know, I gotta tell you, I was honored to be asked to. I announced at the Michigan ace. It was a pleasure to do it. And I gotta tell you, I have never seen such a supporting group of women in my life. They are very much, very much there for each other. They are open to conversations and questions, and it's just great to see. So I guess my question is if anybody ever wanted to get into doing podcasting and doing what you're doing. What would you tell them? That being the host of a podcast is like doing this for the first time ever.

Being the host, it's fun. I think it's fun. I think it's educational. It's been a great learning opportunity for me. It's outside of my comfort zone, as you mentioned earlier, and I think it's definitely. Has been a growing experience, and I definitely would recommend it to anybody to, you know, to give it a shot, give it a try, do something. For me, it was definitely doing something different. Something. When I recommended or had the idea of doing a podcast, it wasn't that I was gonna do it. It was, hey, this is a way to get our voices heard. And then it was, well, great. Cindy, why don't you take that and do it? You know, I'm in the area that I'm not familiar with. Right. I've not been involved with studios or recordings or anything like that.

And that's something I don't know. I suppose it's probably relevant at any job at all, but definitely at a community college, because careful what you suggest, because you might be the one in charge of that.

Exactly.

I gave you advice here and there. I explained some stuff, but I really didn't give you a lot of insight as far as how to prepare for an interview, necessarily. I will offer advice to people who ask, but you didn't really ask. So how do you prepare for an interview? Do you usually do a lot of heavy research or do you focus more on the conversation itself?

So I'll do some research on the person and see where they're at and what experiences that they've had. And I will also definitely look at, you know, going over what type of questions, what do we want to know? Not getting too in depth, but perhaps conversation could go a little bit deeper and then some reflection on, you know, our conversation. How do I think this conversation may go? And it's. And always wanting it to be educational, informative, light, spirited, and, you know, just good interaction between two, three, four people. I think we had. I think we had one where we had three people, didn't we?

We had at least two. Yeah, it was you and two.

Two other people. Yep, yep. So. So, yeah. Yeah.

Very cool. Is there an upcoming guest or episode that you're really excited about?

There's a few without, you know, giving it away, but I'm hoping to have, like, one of the presidents in reference to just giving some insight and telling their story and just some of the challenges that they encounter, sharing that and their experiences and how they've gotten through some of their challenges and trials, tribulations, letting people know that they too can get through a lot of this, you know, get through challenges as well. And they're just like anybody else, right? They're just as they. You know the old saying, they put their pants on the same way, right? Yeah, we assume so.

We assume.

I remember. I don't know if you remember Olga Holden. She was with Small Business Development Center. I worked with her for part time. We were sitting in a meeting, I'll never forget. And she brings up her foot and she takes off her shoe and she had a hole in her nylon or something and pulls it out. And I was just sitting there and I just looked. I was. I was just. Just amazed of what she was doing. I was surprised or whatever, and I was mid-20s or something. And she looked and she said, what? I'm just like you. I put my pants on the same way you do or whatever. My hoes are just the same as yours. And I just thought, I'll never forget that. She's a great lady.

I probably would have had the same reaction you did.

It was like, wait, what is she doing? It was funny.

We're getting low on time here, but I do want to ask you a couple of quick hitters. First of all, I want to know what does leading the way mean to you personally?

So that means, like paving the path for others, not just walking it alone, but taking someone else along with you as you are leading the way and you're lifting, you're climbing, whatever, but you're sharing your knowledge, you're sharing your experiences, whether those are good or bad experiences, but also creating opportunities for those that come along with you. And knowing that people are looking at you as a mentor, they're taking a look at you and kind of watching every move and so being an inspiration for others as well.

What challenges do you think still need more visibility or more action?

I'd say for equity to be the norm and barriers are the exception. A place where women can lead boldly without questioning whether they belong. Because we absolutely do need to be at the table, as they say, and lead by example.

Gotcha.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So when you look at the next generation of women leaders, including your daughter, what do you hope higher education looks like for them?

I hope that they feel that they are part of the future, that they make a difference, that their challenges have helped others along the way. Like with what my daughter is doing, she's in education as well as research. And so a lot of what she's doing is going to help others. And she mentions that a lot when we're in conversations that she wants for sustainability. She wants to make sure that these others, that she's coaching them, that she's helping them along the way. And so that's where her and I talk about communication a lot. Make sure that you're communicating that so that they understand what it is, what's the goal, what's the focus? And they'll go ahead, you lead the way, and they'll be there alongside of you, or they'll continue to watch and see where you're taking them. So be careful with that as well. So make sure that you're leading them in the direction of the vision, the vision that you want for the future.

A common theme, I'll just mention this offhand that I heard a lot at Michigan ACE Conference when I was there was the notion of encouraging women to speak up and let their higher ups, their leaders, know that they were interested in advancing.

Exactly. Because if they don't know what we don't know, we can't help with. Right. And within my staff, I talk to them about encouraging them all the time, too. If you're looking at, you know, enhancing your education, going to the next level, looking at other positions, become a manager or whatever, make sure that it's known otherwise.

Communicate.

Yes, communicate. The key, that key. Otherwise we don't. We don't know. For people that aren't any level.

Well, certainly, I have to say that is one of the things that I've been guilty of myself over the years of not saying, hey, I'm really interested in this role. Just assuming that based on my merits alone, somebody's gonna notice me and just offer me something. Well, you can't do that. You have to let them know that you are interested in moving on.

And then when you let them know, then they're gonna keep it in their mind and go, oh, yeah, I remembered. Hey, we're looking for. You're looking for somebody. It's Italian. I remember he mentioned in a conversation it could be just in passing, having coffee, whatever. It doesn't have to be a formal evening. Formal, right, right.

Definitely.

Exactly.

Dr. Cynthia Rooker, thanks so much for coming in and joining me on behind the Connection. Leading the Way, Women in Higher Education is the name of the podcast, and you can listen to the very first episode starting Tuesday. She doesn't even know at this point. I haven't even told her folks. Tuesday, January 13, 2pm It'll be available at lccconnect.com or wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks so much for coming in and talk to me.

Thanks so much for having me.

I'm not gonna let you go quite yet, though, because we do have the rando question of the day.

Oh, no.

That's right. I can't tell you what it is because I don't know. Are you ready? But this is how we end the show. You ready? Okay, here we go. What's something you wish you'd figured out sooner? Wow. I think this is a very fitting question for the conversations we're having today. So what is something that you wish you'd figured out sooner? And I'm gonna add a little bit onto that.

In life, what's something you wish you'd figure out sooner? Oh, boy. How? What did I want to figure out a lot sooner?

Still trying to figure it out. Yeah.

Still trying to figure. Figure it out. All out. Right. Life itself. Oh, my gosh, it's so complicated. But geez, I would go to the.

Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. I don't know if you're familiar with that.

Oh, no.

Oh, yeah. You gotta be a geek or a nerd in order to know anything about that. 42 is the answer.

42.

So there you go. You just learned something new on the podcast today. 42 is the answer to life.

I love it. 40. 32. Okay, Where's the peck of pickled peppers Peter Piper picked?

There you go. I don't have the applause button yet. You get to keep that. You get to take that home.

That's.

That's your prize for the day.

Oh, this is great. I love.

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Hello everyone and welcome to Now Spinning, the official podcast of the Lansing Community College Vinyl Record Club. We meet twice a month to listen to vinyl and talk about music. Stay tuned to learn about how you can get in touch with us and attend our meetings. Hello everybody and welcome back to a very special episode of Now Spinning. I'm very excited to introduce our guests for today.

We have Ashley Turcotte and Jesse Force.

And of course I'm still Simon Medina. And also we have.

Hi, I'm Leo Ackerman.

Hello, Leo Ackerman.

Hello.

Hi.

And what club are you guys from?

We are from the Lansing Community College Art Club. So you know, we're, you know, semi relate, you know, we hang out in the same building, you know, but we talk sometimes. Yeah, we have some crossover members, you know, but I've gone to a couple Vinyl Record Club meetings, you know, and I always have a good time. I know Leo here, we're co workers actually. So.

Nice.

Yeah, yeah, I just, you know, I was like, let me on the pod, let me on the pod.

And here we are today, art and music. I mean music is art, but like visual art and music, there's a big overlap there. I think that's why we brought everybody here today as we want to talk a little bit about album covers. And specifically, what do you think makes a good album cover? When you look at an album, you see its cover. What makes you want to intrigue, makes you want to pick it up and listen to it.

So the first thing that comes to mind, right, because it is the first thing you see with an album, right. It is like that album cover. It tells a story in a way, Right. It kind of sets the tone when I listen to music even, Right. I associate it with colors, and it's usually just the color that is on the album cover. You know, it is like when I am listening to, let's say, you know, in the Court of the Crimson King, I am thinking of the color red and blue and all those sorts of stuff. I don't have synesthesia or whatever it is. It's just what I think about. Right.

Association. It is.

Yeah, it's the association. It is like, it's that starting point. And it's also just like, you know, they often tell a story in some way, right? I know, like, you know, classical album covers, maybe it just has the artist on the front. But I think as time has gone on, we've gotten, you know, more artistic album covers that are. They add to the narrative of the album.

I feel like, in a way, we've kind of fallen away from the importance of the album cover. Because back in the day with the days of vinyl, where you would have to pick them out and look at them, that's where vinyl, like, the covers meant the most, I would argue. But nowadays, most people are on Spotify or something, or they're just in, like, a playlist rotation. They might not even know the album cover, unfortunately. So I wonder how much, like, I haven't even looked at most modern pop music or anything, how much they really put into their album artwork in a way, and that's something they really care about anymore.

The thing about the album covers today is that I think, like, with physical media, though, with, you know, vinyl is becoming, like, a much bigger thing than it was in years past. I think that we're kind of seeing a resurgence in the more creative album covers. Like, I mean, I think it was like, the 90s is when it started kind of going a little bit downhill because vinyl stopped being so popular. So it was just little tiny CDs or cassette. So you had to shrink. Shrink it down to that size. So that, like, the deep level of detail kind of dropped off a little bit. But, I mean, not to say that lack of detail makes an album cover bad. I was gonna mention some of the album covers I think are the most interesting, at least for me, are the ones that can say a lot with a little. And one album, I think that has kind of exemplified this for me. There's two, actually that I want to talk about. The first would be the Beatles White album, and the other one would be Weezer Blue album or any other of their self titled color albums. To start with the White Album, I mean, you think about the context which it came out, which was in the super psychedelic era. Super very detailed, intricate album covers, like big vibrant colors, that kind of thing.

But compare it to sergeant Pepper, which I believe, yeah, was the prior album, you know.

Yeah. And like, they basically decided to take it in just a complete opposite direction.

Minimalism.

Minimalism is just a white. Just a white album, if you will, with just the name of the band on it and like a number if it's an original copy, which I have. Not to brag or anything, but I think that's something just very interesting in that. Just the statement and taking away pretty much all of the art from it. It's just kind of saying something in itself.

Mm, most definitely.

And then one more thing. Just my last thing I wanted to mention was just the. The Weezer album covers. Just because think about how, like, ubiquitous that is. Like, you see that shade, what do you think of? You know, you think of Weezer, you see four people standing next to each other and if your brain is messed up enough, you're like, Weezer. It's like the pattern recognition thing. They've done something horrifying with that. I can't get away from it. It's scary.

I literally dated someone that ran a Weezer the Blue Album meme account where they would just post variations of that cover with different characters and things like that. And they had 10,000 followers on Twitter. I think that speaks for itself, for the iconic nature of that album cover.

Yeah, that also plays into something that's really interesting. Is for me, what makes an album cover, like really good or really interesting is imagery that is one evocative, something that brings out emotion within you, like, you know, the color association or just an atmosphere that it brings before you even listen to the music. And two, marketability and how easy it is to picture it. Like you said, it's not like more detail makes an album cover worse, but the easier you can picture an image, to me in your head is what makes an album cover iconic. Like Blue by Joni Mitchell. We're on. We're on a blue kick right now, I guess.

Great friend of the show, Joni Mitchell.

This. This. This room is Joni Mitchell blue, I think. But, yeah, I think what makes the COVID so striking. One, because the color blue, we can go into. We could go into color theory and everything associated with. With that. But also it's just the image of her in a dimly lit room staring at the ground is. It's an iconic image. It's saying a lot with just her facial expression and the color blue and nothing else.

Yeah, most definitely. That's actually kind of a series of album covers. I was thinking of when I thought about, like, oh, innovative. Like, very important album covers to me were the Brian Eno ambient series, where they all have this map, like, over the head, like, look to him. It's very reminiscent of the actual sound of the album. It's very ambient landscape, very expansive, but very minimalistic. I think that's something that really is important for album artwork, is that it represents the music. Well, yes, because if it doesn't, like. And I also think it helps that the music. The album being good album, because, like, if it's like an album you just kind of think is okay, you're probably not gonna think about the album cover. Like, Joni Mitchell's Blue is great because Joni Mitchell's a great singer, songwriter. That album's awesome. And just also was amplified by how good the album cover is. But if it means album was just mid, nobody would care. Yeah, it's unfortunate.

True.

I think there's something to be said also, like, sometimes an album cover, it can enhance the music, and in some cases, it kind of, like, kind of drags it down. One album, I think that, like, the COVID is not great, but the music's really good. Would be like Pet Sounds by the Beach Boys. It's very, like. I think it's a nice cover, but, like, it's. It's a little generic. It's a picture of the artist. And then, like, it just has the name of the album and all of the songs right on the front. I think, like, for the time, it was, like, normal, but, like a lot of those older 60s album covers, it's just straight up, just like a picture of the artist. And, hey, you should buy this. Look at this album. Buy this right now.

Yeah.

Instead of trying to do something more artistic with it that would reflect the music.

I do think it is also held up to more scrutiny given how legendary Pet Sounds is.

Right.

Like, we're not gonna hold a Patsy Cline record to the same standard. I do love Patsy Cline, but, like, Patsy Cline is like. Like, her compilations are what make her, like, a huge artist.

Right.

And there are, like, other artists from the 60s. I'm forgetting names right now, but Kinks or something. Yeah, like the Kinks, where they will have, like, the titles of the track on the COVID Because it was just made to be like, yeah, here are the songs that you're gonna be listening to. Here's what you're gonna be hearing. And it was standard for the time. And I think Pet Sounds, because it's so legendary and so influential, it's kind of held to a different standard, where people expect it to have, like, more interesting artwork than it does.

Right.

I mean, the Beatles arguably didn't really have interesting artwork until maybe Help.

Yeah, I'd say Hard Day's Night is an interesting cover, but I know what you mean. It took a little bit.

I feel like it's almost like the Prague art rock era is when they really started kind of pushing for album artwork. Like, yes. Pink Floyd. Yeah, those kind of things. That's when the album artwork was done by illustrators. And they, like, really sought out to get somebody to make the album that fit their vibe.

Right.

Yeah. And that kind of carried over to the 70s.

It is also, like, when you actually start to see. I mean. Yeah, like you said, like, illustrators and stuff. You think about, like, let's. Like, like Velvet Underground. Right. You have an Andy Warhol cover.

Right, Right.

It's. Oh, my God, I forgot Sticky Fingers. I don't remember the band. The jeans, Andy Warhol. You know, it's like, yeah, you were having a famous artist from that time who was coming in and doing the album cover. You know, it's the, you know, part of, like, the marketing and things like that. Like, Keith Haring also did, I think, a couple album covers during that time. Dolly did, too, actually. Surprisingly, I learned recently.

What album covers did Dolly do?

That's the thing I don't like there. I think it seems like pretty amazing albums. I wish I remembered the name.

Geiger did work for Celtic Frost, or Celtic Frost, rather. He was actually the guy from Celtic Frost. The singer was his assistant. Oh, and he became assistant because he's like, hey, our music's really inspired by you. He's like, I'll do some album work for you, because I like it.

I did not know that. I do want to ask you, too, about this. I mean, I feel like we were talking about earlier a lot of the time in early with early records, it was just like a photo of the band and the songs you were gonna be listening to. I think the rise in like actual illustration and like artistic direction in album covers is. I don't know, I want you guys to speak your thoughts on that and whatnot. I'm having a hard time, I think.

Here, Jesse, I'll pass that to you. Because you know what?

You.

You here, here.

This might be a good transition. You've actually made album art before, so you have perspective on this in a way. Like, I'm actually. I'm more of a fine artist than like kind of graphic design, you know? And I think a lot of album artists that work, this is all the same.

Those are just labels they put in a box.

Yeah.

Okay. Well, I mean, when I did album artwork, it was just because I just knew some people made music or I just met them at a bar and they're like, I'm like, oh, I'm an artist. Like, oh, can I hire you? I'm like, yeah, that was seriously it. I showed him an image, he was like, okay, bet. And they're just like, okay, I'll give you $200. I'm like, aight, fine.

Good deal.

Yeah.

I don't know when I made them. I'm just like, okay, I have to. They're for punk bands. So I'm like, well, it's not gonna look. I'm not gonna try to make it look like a pristine, pleasant looking thing. I'm not gonna make it look like Abbey Road.

Yeah.

So I'm like, okay. Messy imagery kind of in your face. Garish colors and everything. This is a great topic for a podcast where I can show off.

Yeah.

And like, I wanted to make sure it fit the vibe. I'm not sure if I did a great job of like, you know, you could see it far a distance. That's one thing I think is also very important for Al Marquez because that's something you actually learn in art is how well you can see something from a distance across the room. And like, that's usually about values rather than like detail. It's like how much like brights and darks you have in something. And like, I think that's also very important from like, Joey Mitchell's Blue, you could see across the room because even though it's a very simplistic minimalist cover, it's very there. But when I made it, I just made it. I asked them how they like it. They're like, change this. I'm like, okay, it wasn't that extravagant because I wasn't hired because of my work. It was just more like a proximity. But I definitely think the rise of probably more expressive and I think hippie movement, the D word, drugs, has a big factor. Can we say that?

Don't do them. Don't do drugs.

Don't do drugs. Thank you.

But, like, so those. I think that also had a big factor where they had the visuals, man, like, really meant, like, I also thought of Miles Davis Bitches Brew album covers, which are, like, beautifully painted and everything like that.

Yeah, I love that album.

Yeah, that's a great one. Yeah. And, like, I think that was just, like, a big turning point where people were like, okay, we should really make sure it's a visual thing. And also, people are, like, getting the covers and putting them on their wall at this point. And a lot of people could just get vinyl records just to put on their wall because they like the vinyl record, the COVID so much.

Actually, I want to ask. So did you listen to the music before you actually did the art for these albums, or did you, like. I mean, like, what was your literally, like, process here? It might be totally different from how it's actually done in the industry. Right. But still, I want to hear about the thought process.

I'm pretty sure in the industry, like, album artwork is, like, last thing. It's different because, like, I just worked with, like, GTG Records, local record label in Lansing. You're welcome, Tommy. Tommy Plural runs it. He did the music, the audio for the sound design for both of these. So that's why I bring him up.

Nice. But.

And it's just like, yeah, the album, the recordings were sent to me. I believe it's been a while. These were, like, a handful of years ago, but I also had seen them perform, so I understood their vibe and aesthetics. I wouldn't be able to just go blindly, I don't think, unless they said, just be blind, do what you want. Then I would just probably make something kind of abstract where I'm like, well, maybe this will fit in any kind of thing. I don't know. I mean, could you take an album cover like Abbey Road or sergeant Pepper and give it to Dead Kennedys?

Would that fit in an ironic sense? Maybe.

But that's another thing. I was almost thinking, in some artists, they don't care about the art at all. Most punk albums don't really care much about illustrative or aesthetic style. Maybe some Offspring albums in the 90s, but most of them are just like, here's the name of the band On a white or blackout background or some colors thrown in there. Maybe the logo. The Misfits. Like, nobody thinks about the album covers for the Misfits. They say about the music because they didn't care about that. They care about the music. Some people really care about the visuals they have for it. And some people, I don't think do. If you look at this one, like this one, very minimalist. He's like, I just want you to draw a little cartoon version of me and put it on the COVID And this one, they kind of let me go what they want. But they did want it bright and vibrant.

Right.

They had loftier ideas to do physical releases, but they didn't sell enough. It's okay. They're doing okay.

Well, they're getting plugged on the podcast, so, you know, this is their big opportunity.

What's the name of the artist? Sorry.

Yeah, I guess we could have said that. So this little one was done by. For Blaine and his keyboard, which is a local artist. I don't think he's really active anymore. I think he might just do occasional shows. Just a dude on his keyboard playing, like happy hardcore kind of music. Vaguely pop adjacent, kind of Andrew W.K.

Ish.

And then the other one was named Dez D E Z. They no longer go by that name anymore. Pretty much right after this, they're like, we're changing our style. I think their music is probably similar, but they go by Ladder Match now.

Okay, cool.

Yeah, they're big wrestling nerds.

Oh, no. I'm bringing it all back.

Something I thought was interesting that you just brought up was you talking about how a lot of punk bands don't really care about the COVID that much. I just think it's interesting how much going on in the COVID can tell you about, like, the instrumentation of it. Really something that pops into mind. Like you said, the Miles Davis record, very extravagant cover. A lot of stuff going on because it's a very lush record with very complex instrumentation. Meanwhile, what was his name again? Blaine and his Keyboard. Blaine and his Keyboard record. Very scrappy, very diy. And I think it kind of tells the listener without saying it out loud. Like, hey, the more stuff that goes on on this album cover, the more that's gonna be going on. Like, Auditor, like, with the audio, I guess.

One I actually was thinking of, you know Pink Moon by Nick Drake, of course. Yes. Yeah. Like, that's one I really love. Because it's like, in a way, it doesn't feel like it should fit. Cause it's like psychedelic and it's. And Nick Dre. It's just him and his Kousa guitar thing, but it kind of has this, like, odd, like, whimsical melancholy to it that does fit his aesthetic and his lyricism.

Right.

So, you know, it can be kind of. It can kind of ebb and flow and, like, change up.

Yeah, yeah. As far as that goes, like, the COVID matching, just, like, the energy and the vibe of the record. One thing I wanted to bring up that just popped in my mind would be Blackstar by David Bowie. I mean, he's always had really great album covers. I think every single one of his there's always. It really illustrates the music very well.

What? Every single one?

Okay, well, okay, hold on now. Well, I don't know. I don't know about some of them, but that one especially, I think maybe ironically. I think that's the only cover of his where he's not on the COVID I think so. Yeah. And I think just the way that he manages to take the COVID and tie it into the music itself, and it's all about this kind of the concept surrounding his own death. I think that's really just a fascinating use of the art there. It's so minimalist. It's just like a black star on a white background. But it says a lot. Once you listen to the music of it, it all comes back together as a complete unit.

Also, you mentioned that it is the only cover of his. At least as far as I know, the only cover of his without him on it. Yeah, it does tie into the record thematically, because all that's left is the music. It's no longer about him, it's about what he's left. I just think that's incredibly interesting.

That's heavy, man.

Shout Out. David Bowie, friend of the show I.

Was actually gonna think about an artmarwork of an artist I adore and albums I adore that have pretty bad album artwork. And that is the discography of Leonard Cohen. Yeah, I love Leonard Cohen with all my heart. But his album artworks make it look like you're just gonna listen to, like, Tom Jones.

Yeah.

Which I think. Well, to be fair, later on, he's a little lounge singer. Fits. But it's just like him just sitting there. Typically in a bad photo. One's literally a webcam photo he just took. Improvised, like. There we go.

Records.

The one with a Thousand Kisses Deep. I forget which one that one is. It's the one that's the blue. And, yeah, it looks weird because it's literally. He was Sitting next to the singer, he's like, look over. He's like, huh? And he just took a picture on his webcam. Cause it kind of shows his thing. He's like, okay, here's my face. Yeah. So it's not good, but I know what I'm getting. So he's not wrong.

It's functional.

It's functional.

It works.

Yeah. If we are just talking about album covers we really like right now, I am curious. Yeah.

I want to get all of your.

Guys favorites are actually, if you can pick maybe like one or a couple.

Right.

Put me on the spot.

I was thinking about this a lot beforehand. Right. And I think I really. I have to give it. Even though this isn't one of my favorite albums, it's a great album, but Low End Theory from A Tribe Called Quest.

Yes.

I think all of their early album covers are like probably just some of my favorites. I think they're absolutely beautiful. Right. But that one specifically, where it is like just like this human figure with like, you know, like the classic, like African colors. Right? It's green, red, black, you know, and just like forming this figure just through lines, not through like shading, any of that sort of stuff. Right. Is it like, you know, an art person? You know, I'm like looking at that, I'm like, this is so cool. It's inspired some of my own art. And you know, I think it also just. It has that message behind it too, you know, it is like, you know, this is like, this is African music. This is music from the black community, you know, and like early stage of hip hop. So if I had to pick one, that is probably my favorite, that's a.

Very, very good pick.

Very out of left field. Very good.

There's no pressure. No pressure, Simon.

Okay. The one that popped to my mind that I think is just a really stupidly hilarious album cover that I think about all the time. Is the album Bad out of Hell by Meatloaf? I think it is the most perfect encapsulation to the music I've ever seen in an album cover. Because it's a dude like rocketing out of like a castle on the back on a motorcycle. And there's like a dragon or something. It's.

It's a giant bat.

Giant bat. Sorry, bat. That's why they call it that. Giant bat. It is such an over the top, obscene album cover.

You know, a mountain.

Dramatic.

You know what?

I'm looking at this right now. This is beautiful.

No?

Yeah.

You know what Meelaf describes music as is Adult Disney.

I can believe that 100%.

Yeah.

Like, that is. It's very, like, adult oriented, like Disney Disney whimsy in a way.

Oh, Lord. Okay, I have two. Primarily homogenic by Bjork.

Okay, Awesome.

I love, love that cover. She looks so freaky.

That one with the neck.

Yeah, yeah. She has the neck rings on and her hair is done huge.

It's the strange kimono.

She's wearing all black contacts. It sounds like it's from the future. She looks like she's from some weird alternate future. Something's going on there. My second favorite, because I feel like I have to mention, is lift your skinny fists like antennas to heaven by Godspeed, you black emperor. Bit of a mouthful, but the COVID is so simple. I believe it is. Yeah. It's two hands with some, like, red shock waves around them. And it's on like a cardboard cover.

Yeah.

The texture of it is beautiful.

It's like you talk about Godspeed, like album covers all day. How, like, beautifully. They're like, just simplified in a way.

It's perfect. It's perfect.

I have too many to think of. There's a lot of things I really love, a lot of album covers I really love. I think the one that pops in my head that is saying, like, no, this is your favorite is the who's Quadrophenia. Because it's just a simple vodka photo of. I don't think it's Pete Townsend. It's just a guy who looks like Pete Townsend sitting on.

That's so. Sitting on Pete Townsend. Approximately.

Well, they all look like mods. That's the point. They're going for the mod, like, game. Yeah. So it's a guy sitting on a motorcycle, kind of downtrodden with, like, just covered in paraphernalia of the time. Cause it's a time capsule album about how them growing up, you know, it's like. It's very obvious. Quadraphine is probably their best album too.

Oh, yeah.

That one I really love. I don't know if they're like. I don't know. I really also love Take Care, Take Care, Take Care by Explosions in the Sky.

Yes.

Just a very beautifully rendered brick wall with a door just covered in vines. It's very, in a way, simple, but very like, you know, very particular. But it's just. It just fits the sound very well.

Fits with the post rock tradition, honestly, where it's most effortless, very elegant and simple. To the point. Beautiful.

Yes. Very much so.

I have one more little question. How do you feel about formatting affecting album artwork. Because the formatting of a record does actually, in my opinion, has a huge effect on the music. 1. Not only with, like, albums being broken into sides or like, whatever, you can just do it straight through with CDs and streaming. But also, like, the shapes of the packaging have a huge effect on it. And like, with digital artwork, there doesn't exist anymore.

Yeah.

How do you.

How do you feel about like, album artwork across like, different, like, styles of packaging? Be it cassette, eight track, wax cylinder.

You know, I mean.

Well, it's kind of funny, right, because even across all of these different formats, right. We still have the image of the album cover. It's just like a square, you know? Right. And that's what comes up on every streaming thing. So I feel like I've never actually like, gone that deep into thinking about these different formats and stuff, right. But immediately made me think about, right, you know, loathe to bring him up, but Kanye west, you know, and like Yeezus, right, Specifically. Right. Like, that is an album cover that would not exist in a different time period, you know, because it is so tied to just the physical format.

It's a crystal case with a CD in it.

Yeah. It's just like there is none, you know, and this is something we talked about a little bit, right, Is like, you know, nowadays, like, because albums are digital, right? You can. The album art can change, you know, it can, you know, doesn't have to.

Stick to the strict dimensions of a square.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Actually, a funny example of this I think about, right, is Charli XCX changing all of her albums recently just to be fit into the new, like, brat aesthetic, you know, it's like, you know, like, the album art can change over time, you know, it can become a different thing. Even, like within, like, the same release, you know.

One thing that comes to mind to me immediately is there's this record Hex Dealer by the band Lip Critic. They're like a crazy synth punk outfit. They know that, like, the album cover game has changed. So on their record, it's just like a crudely photoshopped face bouncing around like the DVD logo did on old screens. And I think that's a really creative way to kind of get around how album covers just don't. Album covers and packaging aren't as important. They've changed it.

I was actually kind of thinking, like, I'll be quick about it. But, like, I found a lot of people find music just on YouTube and that's one place that album covers really matter. Somebody's like, man, I clicked on this video because the album was. The COVID was so cool.

Yeah.

And if you think about like the dimensions, you could do much more of that, like, theoretically. What if they did, like, essentially moving album covers? Animations. Like, you see all those, like, you know, lo fi girl, like things where they have like looped animations. What if in the future, artists make that more of a priority?

Yeah, Spotify.

Add that.

Yeah, pay us, but add it, please.

Yeah, like, that could be even bigger thing.

When does the art club meet? Do you have like a fixed schedule?

We meet every Monday 4 to 6 in 1235B in the Gannon Building. Every Monday 4 to 6.

Fascinating.

Go to art club.

Go to art club.

Yes, please.

Have open draw right afterwards.

I don't think we've started that this semester, unfortunately. But even if you're not an artist, it's a good time. You have a pretty active community. Come to our club.

Well, I think that does about wrap it up. If you're interested in coming into any of our meetings, you can check out the link that's gonna be included with the show to our website. You're gonna find the schedule for all of our meetings for the next year, all of our meeting themes, and any other information you'd ever need about the club. All of our other old podcast links will be included on the website as well. If you're just generally a music fan or if you've just been collecting records for a long time, anybody's welcome to come to the record club. It's a very welcoming group of people. Any level of experience with vinyl, or if you just don't even own any and you just want to listen to good music, come on down. It's a great place. Thanks everybody for your time and we hope to see you next time. Bye now.

Bye.

Bye.

Love you so much.

Love you. Good night. Bye bye. Love you. Bye.

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