1 00:00:00,001 --> 00:00:05,140 On this episode of the dudes and dads podcast we're talking with our friends at Grace College 2 00:00:05,140 --> 00:00:27,080 So welcome back it has been it feels like forever since we really it's been a hot minute Andy been a hot minute 3 00:00:27,560 --> 00:00:31,060 And yet strangely enough we've been teleported back to the same table. Yeah 4 00:00:31,060 --> 00:00:37,880 Previously with the same people to be fully honest. We are recording back-to-back, which we don't normally do how will we get through this? 5 00:00:37,880 --> 00:00:39,880 It's like a mirror. It's like a podcast 6 00:00:39,880 --> 00:00:44,400 Absolutely Andy well hey glad to have each and every one of you here for the dudes dead pop 7 00:00:44,400 --> 00:00:49,420 Pop quiz and jumping the hunt already the dudes and dad's podcast. We do we do we end 8 00:00:49,420 --> 00:00:52,120 Thanks for joining us 9 00:00:52,120 --> 00:00:58,000 We're looking forward to the conversation at what we have lovingly entitled the grace college sessions 10 00:00:58,000 --> 00:01:05,280 Yeah, yeah, I feel like it needs its own theme music. Yeah, and so and maybe it will get here 11 00:01:05,280 --> 00:01:07,440 We go the grace college sessions 12 00:01:07,440 --> 00:01:14,900 Yeah, that's that's that's where it's gonna go in where I'm excited to hear all the opera all the options that we've made available for 13 00:01:14,900 --> 00:01:16,900 People to insert music right after that 14 00:01:18,200 --> 00:01:24,520 But no what a thrill it is to be down here at what I what I haven't actually shared and well our guests will know 15 00:01:24,520 --> 00:01:25,320 this 16 00:01:25,320 --> 00:01:33,000 My wife is an alum an alumnus alumnus alum. It's not an alum not an alumna. What is there a female version? 17 00:01:33,000 --> 00:01:35,960 What is the female version is there a female is it a gendered? 18 00:01:35,960 --> 00:01:40,720 No one no no one at this table knows your wife went here long story short. She graduated from grace college 19 00:01:40,720 --> 00:01:43,220 now 20 00:01:43,220 --> 00:01:48,500 Gosh, let's see here. That would be 19 years ago. So it's been a it's been a spell 21 00:01:48,500 --> 00:01:52,740 I was as we were driving over here. I was like all like very much like oh 22 00:01:52,740 --> 00:01:54,940 I know how to get exactly where we're going and 23 00:01:54,940 --> 00:02:00,100 Apparently enough time had passed by that. I did not exactly know how we were on the wrong side of campus 24 00:02:00,100 --> 00:02:02,100 But nevertheless, we've we've made it here 25 00:02:02,100 --> 00:02:08,700 To this recording session and recording the recording a podcast here number one 26 00:02:09,700 --> 00:02:14,460 Because we well we were invited by our good friend Scott Allen to come and do here's an instructor here 27 00:02:14,460 --> 00:02:20,840 We're so grateful for that number two his students are taking they're in a recording class here at Grace College 28 00:02:20,840 --> 00:02:27,100 They are taking this content Andy this very content and doing a project and doing a project 29 00:02:27,100 --> 00:02:29,620 submit it for their their recording class and 30 00:02:29,620 --> 00:02:33,380 It's the level of pressure I feel 31 00:02:33,380 --> 00:02:38,140 I've never sat behind a glass window. They're in the studio behind looking over there 32 00:02:38,140 --> 00:02:45,400 They're looking over like typical like typical producers on the other side of the glass looking very nonchalant very comfortable 33 00:02:45,400 --> 00:02:50,700 Well, we are in here sweating away that you know the talent as they call us 34 00:02:50,700 --> 00:02:56,020 But nevertheless, we're thrilled to be here at Grace College. It's really great opportunity for us to record 35 00:02:56,020 --> 00:03:00,340 They're gonna they're gonna get some they're all gonna get a's from this project obviously 36 00:03:00,340 --> 00:03:04,620 But we also get to talk to friends about about the college experience 37 00:03:05,260 --> 00:03:09,860 Thinking about where if you've got a young person who's thinking about college in the future 38 00:03:09,860 --> 00:03:16,060 How how do you discern that how do you make that decisions and specifically on this episode? What is Grace College all about? 39 00:03:16,060 --> 00:03:17,780 That's the that's the real question Andy 40 00:03:17,780 --> 00:03:22,980 But first this episode is sponsored by everance federal credit union helping individuals and organizations 41 00:03:22,980 --> 00:03:31,360 Integrate their faith and values with their banking needs learn more at everance comm slash banking credit union prior products are federally insured by 42 00:03:31,360 --> 00:03:33,460 NCUA 43 00:03:33,500 --> 00:03:40,220 Just for a small we'll call it a corporate sponsorship note Andy everance is also a 44 00:03:40,220 --> 00:03:45,060 Advising partner here at Grace College ding ding ding winner winner chicken dinner 45 00:03:45,060 --> 00:03:51,020 So thank you everance for your support and for helping our friends here at Grace College with whatever 46 00:03:51,020 --> 00:03:57,740 Financial wizardry that you do here. So awesome. Okay, here we are. We're back in action 47 00:03:57,740 --> 00:04:00,540 We've got our we've got our guests with us again. We will 48 00:04:00,540 --> 00:04:03,220 introduce them a 49 00:04:03,260 --> 00:04:10,420 Semi appropriately with us. We have dr. Wally Brath, who is the head of worship arts here at Grace College and then dr 50 00:04:10,420 --> 00:04:15,820 Kevin Roberts who serves as we're gonna find out this time what in the world a provost is you said that last time and it? 51 00:04:15,820 --> 00:04:17,820 Never came out. So we're gonna find out 52 00:04:17,820 --> 00:04:23,300 Right now on the spot tell us what does a provost do because you're also professor here you teach classes 53 00:04:23,300 --> 00:04:29,700 You do all the the normal professor stuff, but then the distinction of Provost what what's going on? 54 00:04:30,220 --> 00:04:37,700 So that means everything related to academics so that might be library all the all the different schools that we have 55 00:04:37,700 --> 00:04:40,940 all reports to me and 56 00:04:40,940 --> 00:04:47,660 Registrar everything that you think that touches academics. Are you so you're like an academic CEO? I 57 00:04:47,660 --> 00:04:52,080 Wouldn't go that far but something along that line. I'm just gonna say it right now 58 00:04:52,080 --> 00:04:55,860 Kevin is the academic CEO here at Grace College and 59 00:04:55,860 --> 00:04:58,460 It may not be on his business card 60 00:04:58,460 --> 00:05:05,320 But I think it's I think it's time it is so I've just made a completely unofficial and non-binding a proclamation about that 61 00:05:05,320 --> 00:05:12,180 but thank you for explaining so it's a it's a big a very big umbrella of responsibility of leadership here and 62 00:05:12,180 --> 00:05:17,740 And we get to talk with you since their thing when Scott set up this recording session 63 00:05:17,740 --> 00:05:21,900 He could have gotten any any person on staff here, but he said no 64 00:05:21,900 --> 00:05:29,560 I'm getting a provost and that's how I knew that this was going to be an episode unlike any other 65 00:05:29,560 --> 00:05:34,040 Not to not to shoot too high. Okay, so friends. Thank you 66 00:05:34,040 --> 00:05:39,140 So glad to have you guys back with us here for session two of the grace college 67 00:05:39,140 --> 00:05:43,380 If you've not heard the first session go back and listen to that our guests kind of introduce themselves 68 00:05:43,380 --> 00:05:50,860 And they talked about all the things that they do. Yeah, they've got they have families. They're into interesting stuff. There's family bands 69 00:05:50,860 --> 00:05:52,860 there's travel there's 70 00:05:52,860 --> 00:05:55,900 prescription drugs and 71 00:05:55,900 --> 00:06:01,920 And the talking out of prescription drugs in the same family. It's a it's a real 72 00:06:01,920 --> 00:06:05,060 Yeah, wow, you should listen how? 73 00:06:05,060 --> 00:06:09,380 How awesome I just took all that out of context just to create some tension 74 00:06:09,380 --> 00:06:15,700 That's what we like to do the drama of it. So friends and while else I'll start with you. First of all you as 75 00:06:17,180 --> 00:06:22,520 Here in the worship arts program and overseeing this and and leading and I and I will say I mean 76 00:06:22,520 --> 00:06:25,580 We're sitting in this recording studio right now 77 00:06:25,580 --> 00:06:34,140 For for a College of Grace colleges size, you know, this is a smaller Christian College, holy Toledo 78 00:06:34,140 --> 00:06:42,100 What a resource here like that's pretty amazing. So I'm sure you're thrilled to have to have those resources 79 00:06:42,100 --> 00:06:45,740 What brought you here to Grace College? What was your journey here? Yeah 80 00:06:45,740 --> 00:06:49,900 Well, I was a worship pastor for 25 or so years 81 00:06:49,900 --> 00:06:53,140 and during that time always 82 00:06:53,140 --> 00:06:55,460 looking to kind of raise up 83 00:06:55,460 --> 00:06:58,940 you know the next generation of worship leaders and 84 00:06:58,940 --> 00:07:03,280 There was an opportunity when we were in Minneapolis 85 00:07:03,280 --> 00:07:05,340 to teach 86 00:07:05,340 --> 00:07:10,580 as an adjunct at Crown College and so did that for a few years and then 87 00:07:12,380 --> 00:07:17,160 They they were looking for somebody to lead their worship arts program. So did that for a number of years? 88 00:07:17,160 --> 00:07:24,500 And then Grace College. I had a high school friend that that lives in the area. He said hey Grace is thinking about 89 00:07:24,500 --> 00:07:28,720 Starting a worship arts program you would be perfect for that 90 00:07:28,720 --> 00:07:33,080 and I would really wasn't interested in the beginning just because 91 00:07:33,080 --> 00:07:36,180 We were happy in Minneapolis 92 00:07:36,180 --> 00:07:41,340 And as people in Minneapolis are I mean, you know, I mean my goodness 93 00:07:41,900 --> 00:07:47,680 Despite the frigid air. It's one of the most active states and active cities in the United States if I understand correctly 94 00:07:47,680 --> 00:07:53,780 Yeah, so people even in 14-degree weather they seem happy. That's true. Yeah, my brother lives there his family's there 95 00:07:53,780 --> 00:07:56,780 So, you know, we were we were doing doing okay 96 00:07:56,780 --> 00:08:02,140 So my friends like just just let me give them your your name and number just talk to them. And so 97 00:08:02,140 --> 00:08:05,260 2016 January had a conversation 98 00:08:05,260 --> 00:08:09,720 about about what they wanted to do here and you know through 99 00:08:10,500 --> 00:08:15,840 Doing some church planting in Minneapolis and just kind of the entrepreneurial sort of aspect of ministry really 100 00:08:15,840 --> 00:08:21,780 found that I enjoyed that that kind of you know, starting different things and developing things and 101 00:08:21,780 --> 00:08:28,860 So yeah, I got to come here in 2016 and basically build build the program for the dream 102 00:08:28,860 --> 00:08:32,020 Oh, it was amazing what I mean just a huge opportunity 103 00:08:32,020 --> 00:08:36,780 So kind of taking, you know my years of experience in the local church 104 00:08:37,500 --> 00:08:44,220 My time at Crown College, you know with that program and and just trying to take the best of all that and try to build 105 00:08:44,220 --> 00:08:51,100 Build the program. So would you have ever I don't hear you saying that you would have ever imagined that you would be a college professor 106 00:08:51,100 --> 00:08:56,780 Is that was that something that ever was on your radar prior to this experience? 107 00:08:56,780 --> 00:09:00,880 No, I mean, you know, I did some adjunct work in in in the Twin Cities 108 00:09:00,880 --> 00:09:04,980 I'm a pianist. So I even did some some like, you know 109 00:09:05,500 --> 00:09:12,180 Teaching in the music side of things kind of throughout the years. But yeah, I mean probably when I was you know 110 00:09:12,180 --> 00:09:17,900 Younger, I wouldn't have thought I would have been a college professor, but you never know you never know kids 111 00:09:17,900 --> 00:09:22,340 You never you never know Kevin. What about you your your story of coming to grace? 112 00:09:22,340 --> 00:09:30,220 Yeah, I was working and doing a lot of clinical work and counseling and so that was really what I was busy doing 113 00:09:30,340 --> 00:09:36,540 And I started teaching just part-time and I fell in love with it loved working with the students 114 00:09:36,540 --> 00:09:44,000 So I started teaching when they asked me to accept the role in a in the graduate counseling program 115 00:09:44,000 --> 00:09:49,100 So and now I've been here. It's my 21st year Wow 116 00:09:49,100 --> 00:09:51,100 and you're 117 00:09:51,100 --> 00:09:56,340 Provosting - I mean, let's not not to beat a dead horse. But wow, what a 118 00:09:56,340 --> 00:09:58,980 What a what a course 119 00:09:59,900 --> 00:10:05,420 I mean, when you guys and I sort of joke about this but you know, I 120 00:10:05,420 --> 00:10:08,660 don't I think sometimes we have this sense of like oh like 121 00:10:08,660 --> 00:10:13,080 What a professor is or the background that they come for or you know, I don't know 122 00:10:13,080 --> 00:10:17,900 I don't know if you have any any Blazers with with patches on the the elbows. That's 123 00:10:17,900 --> 00:10:24,240 No, no patches on elbows by the way here tonight just to be to be clear, but it all patch free 124 00:10:25,100 --> 00:10:31,100 But I think we have this idea of you know, the college professors this sort of removed academic, you know 125 00:10:31,100 --> 00:10:33,260 ivory tower sort of person 126 00:10:33,260 --> 00:10:39,340 But I hear you guys saying really is that your your background comes really out of as a practitioner as someone really doing 127 00:10:39,340 --> 00:10:41,640 the work first 128 00:10:41,640 --> 00:10:43,540 and 129 00:10:43,540 --> 00:10:48,080 Then moving into this place of kind of how you can share those experiences within an academic setting 130 00:10:48,080 --> 00:10:52,200 training future leaders future practitioners all of that 131 00:10:53,780 --> 00:10:58,540 Would you have done it any other way does does it feel does it feel like that course 132 00:10:58,540 --> 00:11:02,320 I mean, it's the course that you took does does it feel like that course is just the most 133 00:11:02,320 --> 00:11:07,460 Natural for for both of you on Wally. Yeah. I mean, I think when I was younger 134 00:11:07,460 --> 00:11:12,120 You know, I was feeling called to full-time ministry in the local church 135 00:11:12,120 --> 00:11:16,380 So, I mean, I think this the course that God had has me on was just 136 00:11:16,380 --> 00:11:21,060 You know just trying to be faithful to to kind of follow that call. So 137 00:11:22,100 --> 00:11:25,780 And that's what I would I would tell students as well, you know, just I think you just have to be 138 00:11:25,780 --> 00:11:32,180 Open to how how the Lord is is really calling you some, you know, honestly some students will come, you know 139 00:11:32,180 --> 00:11:35,180 and and they think initially they're interested in worship arts and then and 140 00:11:35,180 --> 00:11:37,980 We you know, we have a little bit of movement in terms of you know 141 00:11:37,980 --> 00:11:40,900 I need to change my major and we even have a thing, you know 142 00:11:40,900 --> 00:11:46,220 After their first year we do like an interview with the students just to make sure it's a good fit 143 00:11:46,220 --> 00:11:48,760 You know, like is this a good, you know path for you? 144 00:11:50,180 --> 00:11:52,900 And if not, we send them to youth ministry or something 145 00:11:52,900 --> 00:11:57,780 No, I was just kidding. That's a ministry joke folks. And though it's a stereotype 146 00:11:57,780 --> 00:12:00,900 relatively accurate so 147 00:12:00,900 --> 00:12:06,240 Kevin how about you? I would say I wouldn't change the path 148 00:12:06,240 --> 00:12:06,580 Yeah 149 00:12:06,580 --> 00:12:11,360 I think working in the field was really and I probably had a biased 150 00:12:11,360 --> 00:12:17,620 When I was Dean in behavioral sciences to trying to hire folks who had a lot of experiences 151 00:12:19,380 --> 00:12:21,500 There's nothing wrong with just being a researcher 152 00:12:21,500 --> 00:12:27,540 But you know, we're trying to train students to go out there and impact the king for the kingdom 153 00:12:27,540 --> 00:12:34,500 Yeah, and having people with that practical hands-on knowledge. It just it speaks to the students. I think at a different level 154 00:12:34,500 --> 00:12:39,820 Then just a textbook. Yeah. Well and you have you have that life experience 155 00:12:39,820 --> 00:12:46,820 You know what it actually is like to do what you're doing in that field as opposed to just having a textbook 156 00:12:46,820 --> 00:12:53,700 Tell you it. So yeah, that's speaks volumes. It does you know, you're teaching a class and you know 157 00:12:53,700 --> 00:12:58,900 I'm teaching a class on addictions in the fall and you know, I'm like look you don't read these four chapters, you know 158 00:12:58,900 --> 00:13:00,900 There's nothing in there. That's actually useful 159 00:13:00,900 --> 00:13:02,340 and 160 00:13:02,340 --> 00:13:09,460 Yeah, it's not then and the rest of this content. Yeah, it's great. I mean the textbooks fine overall, but let's be honest 161 00:13:09,460 --> 00:13:14,300 What's what's what do they need to do this job? Well, yeah, that's really that's really really helpful 162 00:13:14,300 --> 00:13:18,460 and and again, I the student gains the clarity of 163 00:13:18,460 --> 00:13:22,580 Because for any student especially at the undergraduate level 164 00:13:22,580 --> 00:13:25,560 There's kind of you're getting this education and all the stuff 165 00:13:25,560 --> 00:13:30,580 You don't know like the the world is kind of hopefully opening up before you and you're like wow 166 00:13:30,580 --> 00:13:34,500 There's a so much to be known and understood in here within this this discipline 167 00:13:34,500 --> 00:13:39,220 and yet so when you can have someone that can kind of like 168 00:13:39,420 --> 00:13:45,140 Narrow the road down for you a little bit and kind of say okay here here the places that you really 169 00:13:45,140 --> 00:13:49,220 Really should be spending your time. Well, here's where the real focus should be 170 00:13:49,220 --> 00:13:53,640 Because I just I remember just as a student sometimes 171 00:13:53,640 --> 00:13:58,860 It's like me and some professor would blow my mind with kind of the whole area of study in a particular area and it's like I 172 00:13:58,860 --> 00:14:02,360 Could go down that rabbit hole and not touch any of the rest of this stuff 173 00:14:02,360 --> 00:14:06,380 How am I gonna navigate all of this and then you know your brain kind of gets turning so? 174 00:14:06,720 --> 00:14:12,720 Again to have to have someone with some professional experience who's been out there in the real world doing the thing and knows 175 00:14:12,720 --> 00:14:16,600 Hey, these are the these are the places that you should really be spending your time. I that's 176 00:14:16,600 --> 00:14:20,760 That is a huge gift. I would I would say 177 00:14:20,760 --> 00:14:23,880 So in all of that 178 00:14:23,880 --> 00:14:28,700 What do you guys enjoy most about your jobs? Like what do you love here at grace? 179 00:14:28,700 --> 00:14:33,200 Like what is what's the thing that gets you up in the morning to come and do this? I 180 00:14:35,820 --> 00:14:41,460 Mean I love just the energy of being with the students and just being able to 181 00:14:41,460 --> 00:14:44,660 interact with them 182 00:14:44,660 --> 00:14:50,940 Honestly, I think when you teach a discipline you're you're kind of a lifelong learner as well. So I really appreciate that 183 00:14:50,940 --> 00:14:53,500 I feel like I'm always kind of learning something 184 00:14:53,500 --> 00:14:58,180 In in the context of a classroom or just you know discussions 185 00:14:58,180 --> 00:15:04,700 Also just there's there's kind of a practical aspect to worship ours 186 00:15:04,700 --> 00:15:08,860 we were just we actually just released another single so we have a 187 00:15:08,860 --> 00:15:13,380 students that love to write worship songs and write songs and 188 00:15:13,380 --> 00:15:17,600 So just kind of that hands-on, you know that that really 189 00:15:17,600 --> 00:15:23,540 Because at heart I'm still kind of that worship pastor. Yeah, you know and and so being able to 190 00:15:23,540 --> 00:15:29,340 Kind of do some of that practical hands-on things with students is really it's just really great. Yeah 191 00:15:30,260 --> 00:15:35,300 Yeah, I honestly would say the students for me as well. I only get to teach two courses a year 192 00:15:35,300 --> 00:15:40,540 But I have to tell you I get to the spring semester. I'm not teaching I'm looking at budget reports 193 00:15:40,540 --> 00:15:50,220 And I'm right next to our so energizing right next to our CFO and I'm miserable right looking at those things and 194 00:15:50,220 --> 00:15:54,220 marginal revenue analysis reports do not excite me and 195 00:15:54,220 --> 00:15:57,380 But 196 00:15:57,380 --> 00:16:03,480 The students, I mean, I honestly live for the two courses that I I do 197 00:16:03,480 --> 00:16:09,880 Well, and it sounds like you both are doing things and teaching things that you love to do previous before teaching 198 00:16:09,880 --> 00:16:11,500 And so it's cool to see 199 00:16:11,500 --> 00:16:17,700 How you're able to impact the students and essentially like sending people out to do what you love to do, right? 200 00:16:17,700 --> 00:16:23,380 While in leading worship parts here. I mean, what would you say? What are the grace College? 201 00:16:23,860 --> 00:16:29,900 Distinctives for your worship arts program. Like what? What do you feel? You know a student that goes through the program here 202 00:16:29,900 --> 00:16:34,420 Really walks out with the kind of the practical tools, but also kind of the formational tools 203 00:16:34,420 --> 00:16:39,240 Like what are what's the what's the thing that if you're talking to if you're talking to parents? 204 00:16:39,240 --> 00:16:44,520 Which we are right now talking to parents about with a young person that might be considering this like what's 205 00:16:44,520 --> 00:16:47,020 What's the real thing that you say man? 206 00:16:47,020 --> 00:16:52,520 We stand on these things because we really think we do a good job of them. We're really focused on them 207 00:16:52,520 --> 00:16:56,500 Yeah, I mean I think just in general I think we we do a good job with 208 00:16:56,500 --> 00:17:03,780 The the the theology part of worship and then also that kind of bringing together with the practical things so students 209 00:17:03,780 --> 00:17:09,880 You know, they have to have to study a specific instrument. So voice piano guitar percussion 210 00:17:09,880 --> 00:17:18,180 They they take lessons on that instrument they're in ensembles they do four semesters of music theory 211 00:17:18,180 --> 00:17:21,700 Those kinds of things so kind of learning the language of music 212 00:17:22,660 --> 00:17:23,920 But then on the other side 213 00:17:23,920 --> 00:17:28,680 there's the theology of worship where they do biblical theology of worship and history of Christian worship and 214 00:17:28,680 --> 00:17:31,260 Take courses in Old Testament New Testament 215 00:17:31,260 --> 00:17:36,720 But I think you know as a kind of a you know, good evangelical, you know 216 00:17:36,720 --> 00:17:41,880 We we love to really you know, the Word of God is kind of central I think to to our 217 00:17:41,880 --> 00:17:47,900 History and and honestly is you know as I visit churches and I was just visiting a church 218 00:17:47,900 --> 00:17:51,120 not too long ago where 219 00:17:51,360 --> 00:17:54,840 It wasn't until maybe like 40 minutes into the service, you know 220 00:17:54,840 --> 00:17:58,560 It's like an hour service like halfway into the sermon where there was any 221 00:17:58,560 --> 00:18:05,680 Scripture being read in the service at all. And so I'm thinking to myself, you know, we you know as evangelicals 222 00:18:05,680 --> 00:18:08,480 We we say that we're you know, we're we stand on the Word of God 223 00:18:08,480 --> 00:18:14,380 We're you know Bible saturated and yet in our practice of worship. There's very little 224 00:18:14,380 --> 00:18:19,600 Bible being read and even during the sermon you get little snippets of it 225 00:18:19,680 --> 00:18:21,640 But you never necessarily get you know 226 00:18:21,640 --> 00:18:27,640 Sometimes you don't get it read in its full context before the sermon like that's kind of a little bit more of a historical practice 227 00:18:27,640 --> 00:18:34,960 so I think about the two places in the New Testament where Paul talks about musical worship both in Colossians and Ephesians and 228 00:18:34,960 --> 00:18:39,620 He says in Colossians 3 16 let the Word of Christ dwell in you richly 229 00:18:39,620 --> 00:18:47,260 And he says teaching and admonishing one another with Psalms hymns and spiritual songs with thankfulness in your hearts to God. And so 230 00:18:48,000 --> 00:18:51,280 You know when was the last time you sang a psalm, you know in church, right? 231 00:18:51,280 --> 00:18:57,560 But but that's I mean that's like a and and and our music it teaches and even it admonishes us, you know 232 00:18:57,560 --> 00:19:01,060 So and how do we how do we get the Word of Christ to dwell in us richly? 233 00:19:01,060 --> 00:19:05,540 Well, we've got it. We've got to be exposed to it, right and it's not just in your own personal quiet time 234 00:19:05,540 --> 00:19:09,520 You know at home, but we need we need it in worship in public worship 235 00:19:09,520 --> 00:19:11,960 We need to hear the Word of God written 236 00:19:11,960 --> 00:19:19,420 So historically there would be a lectionary where would there be a systematic way to read the Word of God in public worship? 237 00:19:19,420 --> 00:19:20,920 Yeah, we just don't do that anymore 238 00:19:20,920 --> 00:19:27,340 Yeah, and so we so in our classes we tried to I try to this is not the only way obviously to plan a worship 239 00:19:27,340 --> 00:19:29,400 Service, but we try to use the Word of God 240 00:19:29,400 --> 00:19:35,440 To structure the liturgy. Yeah, and actually use the Word of God as the basis 241 00:19:35,440 --> 00:19:39,880 so instead of just saying well, I'm just gonna pick these songs and kind of have five songs a sermon and 242 00:19:40,520 --> 00:19:43,080 And and then you know benediction or whatever 243 00:19:43,080 --> 00:19:48,380 We we use the Word of God to structure the service and so the the Word of you know 244 00:19:48,380 --> 00:19:51,180 God reveals himself through his word and then we respond to him 245 00:19:51,180 --> 00:19:57,440 In worship and so yeah, I think that's a distinctive. I love it. I think of 246 00:19:57,440 --> 00:20:03,040 Years ago reading NT Wright who said talked about evangelicals being absolutely in love with spontaneity 247 00:20:03,040 --> 00:20:07,280 The the the idol of the idol of spontaneity and if it if it's not spontaneous 248 00:20:07,360 --> 00:20:12,940 How can it be spirit-led and you know these these sort of things and I don't know if it's just me getting older 249 00:20:12,940 --> 00:20:15,180 But and just more crotchety 250 00:20:15,180 --> 00:20:21,540 I don't know but it's like when there is a structure of something cuz I by the way, I think every church has a liturgy 251 00:20:21,540 --> 00:20:25,120 Either either it's a no liturgy 252 00:20:25,120 --> 00:20:29,260 So it's by what they don't do that they that they form this or by or by some other intention 253 00:20:29,260 --> 00:20:33,480 But most of us can walk into many of our evangelical churches and we like, okay. I know the gig right? 254 00:20:33,480 --> 00:20:37,040 I know there's gonna be opening song. There's gonna be announcement. There's gonna be that 255 00:20:37,040 --> 00:20:40,800 Whatever, you know, that's kind of how we how we go about it. There is structure there 256 00:20:40,800 --> 00:20:46,240 And I really just hear you saying like here in particular how the level of intention to that though 257 00:20:46,240 --> 00:20:52,980 Like just taking a moment and saying this is this is a formational opportunity and if we steward it well 258 00:20:52,980 --> 00:20:56,680 Looking looking to the word first 259 00:20:56,680 --> 00:21:03,540 You know, we we serve people well in that way. I I I'm sure I could really get you going 260 00:21:03,540 --> 00:21:05,540 I mean cuz what I hear you saying is that? 261 00:21:06,200 --> 00:21:08,200 Worship is not for entertainment 262 00:21:08,200 --> 00:21:11,560 as the also as a side note and 263 00:21:11,560 --> 00:21:18,160 You know, I think man, I just another pastor friend of mine. I just had this conversation their day of 264 00:21:18,160 --> 00:21:20,880 long long ago 265 00:21:20,880 --> 00:21:24,040 When I was at a conference and listen to a pastor talk about 266 00:21:24,040 --> 00:21:27,120 about preachers 267 00:21:27,120 --> 00:21:30,280 Wandering through the deep dark woods of it seems to me 268 00:21:30,280 --> 00:21:33,600 and and to this point of 269 00:21:35,080 --> 00:21:40,200 I'm gonna do it a spiritual TED talk and we're gonna we're gonna throw a scripture in there 270 00:21:40,200 --> 00:21:45,340 We're gonna baptize the service with you know with that. It's kind of our little get out of jail free card 271 00:21:45,340 --> 00:21:51,540 But really what it is. It's it's a display of the that person's personality or if they're their particular whatever 272 00:21:51,540 --> 00:21:57,240 versus what I hear you saying is really ushering people welcoming people into much more a 273 00:21:57,240 --> 00:22:00,680 deeper and more historical and more biblical 274 00:22:00,680 --> 00:22:04,040 experience with with God and and and 275 00:22:04,380 --> 00:22:07,220 Really the basis of kind of the educational experience here 276 00:22:07,220 --> 00:22:12,360 Just like that being of a high degree of importance and I that's I think that's really really amazing 277 00:22:12,360 --> 00:22:19,400 So Kevin is you so you're you're teaching all of our future Christian 278 00:22:19,400 --> 00:22:22,520 Well, what counselors? 279 00:22:22,520 --> 00:22:25,560 possibly psychologists possibly 280 00:22:25,560 --> 00:22:28,600 Psychiatrists, I don't know if what they're 281 00:22:28,600 --> 00:22:33,960 You know, they're they're caring for people for them for the mind for the for the soul as well 282 00:22:34,800 --> 00:22:41,660 What what do you feel like grace obviously just so anyone knows Grace College has a very very long 283 00:22:41,660 --> 00:22:44,580 history of Christian counseling they are 284 00:22:44,580 --> 00:22:47,240 They had some pretty important 285 00:22:47,240 --> 00:22:49,740 important individuals here that really I 286 00:22:49,740 --> 00:22:54,620 For I don't want to say it too strongly but kind of forerunners in the Christian counseling world 287 00:22:54,620 --> 00:22:57,980 I think it's fair to say I know many of my 288 00:22:58,620 --> 00:23:05,740 Books that are on my shelf have probably grace college when on a lake in them somewhere or a professor or people that you know 289 00:23:05,740 --> 00:23:07,740 Helped influence that what? 290 00:23:07,740 --> 00:23:09,840 What does? 291 00:23:09,840 --> 00:23:13,940 Christian counseling or in that area like what does that really look like? 292 00:23:13,940 --> 00:23:21,320 Why is what is Christian counseling and the training and all of that and the and this is you know for there's undergraduate? 293 00:23:21,320 --> 00:23:26,400 Trainings that go into that too and we often times we think about graduate but there's there's both 294 00:23:27,480 --> 00:23:31,980 What does that even look like because I think that's always what I'm really curious in talking about of like, okay 295 00:23:31,980 --> 00:23:35,620 for the person that just goes to a State University and gets this training to become a 296 00:23:35,620 --> 00:23:40,880 Counselor versus a student that's coming here to grace college. What are the distinctives? What are the differences? 297 00:23:40,880 --> 00:23:47,020 Yeah, I would say the first first one is is yeah, we do have a undergrad and we have our grad counseling as well 298 00:23:47,020 --> 00:23:55,180 but we you have to start with your biblical foundation and in psychology and I use that very 299 00:23:55,680 --> 00:23:58,580 purposefully because once you have a biblical foundation 300 00:23:58,580 --> 00:24:03,380 You have to look at each theory and each approach to psychology 301 00:24:03,380 --> 00:24:09,040 Very critically, right, you know, if you look at an existentialist, for example 302 00:24:09,040 --> 00:24:12,180 There's they're asking good questions about meaning and purpose 303 00:24:12,180 --> 00:24:19,780 but and I think those can be very useful in the context of defining because we have meaning and purpose as believers and 304 00:24:20,160 --> 00:24:26,380 First Corinthians 10 31 gives us that purpose, but it doesn't say, you know 305 00:24:26,380 --> 00:24:30,840 We're driven by these fears and we're driven by these things and there's many of it 306 00:24:30,840 --> 00:24:37,180 You have to discount and that's what you have to keep in mind that that foundation has to be there 307 00:24:37,180 --> 00:24:43,840 because any theory you hold up against does it line up with what we say in Scripture and so 308 00:24:44,500 --> 00:24:50,600 There are elements that you can take from different people, but you have to run it through that filter 309 00:24:50,600 --> 00:24:52,960 and you have to have it you have to have really 310 00:24:52,960 --> 00:24:58,400 Deep conversations about what that looks like. We have our students taking biblical psychology 311 00:24:58,400 --> 00:25:06,380 Write more of an anthropology it gets into a lot of of these heavy issues and and they're tough 312 00:25:06,380 --> 00:25:10,680 I mean they really make you question. What are my own longings? What are my own drives? 313 00:25:10,680 --> 00:25:13,380 What are those that are? 314 00:25:14,160 --> 00:25:16,940 You know really bearing as 315 00:25:16,940 --> 00:25:19,880 image bearers of God right and so 316 00:25:19,880 --> 00:25:26,740 There's a there's a boy. There's a long way you can go with this discussion, but it's very it's a very important discussion 317 00:25:26,740 --> 00:25:33,180 Yeah, I I know maybe and I'm sure we've encountered all of encountered them, you know within some of our Christian circles 318 00:25:33,180 --> 00:25:35,300 a real 319 00:25:35,300 --> 00:25:39,740 Concern or allergy to talking about about psychology, right? 320 00:25:39,740 --> 00:25:44,800 like there there's you know, that's that's in the world of the secular right and and 321 00:25:44,800 --> 00:25:52,700 And I think that draws me kind of the next question of just talking about the integration of Christian faith into any of the disciplines 322 00:25:52,700 --> 00:25:54,980 You know here here at grace in particular 323 00:25:54,980 --> 00:26:00,780 What just I guess at the baseline what is kind of the standard sort of biblical? 324 00:26:00,780 --> 00:26:06,920 Theological training that just any student here at grace would would receive what does that look like for them? 325 00:26:07,720 --> 00:26:15,360 Well, we actually have our core and the number of Bible courses that each students gonna have to take right and so we've got four 326 00:26:15,360 --> 00:26:17,480 Courses that are kind of built into that core 327 00:26:17,480 --> 00:26:22,640 I would say also as far as our faculty are concerned one of the things 328 00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:27,520 so this my I'm in the middle of my third year doing this role and 329 00:26:27,520 --> 00:26:35,580 One of those things was that each of our schools would go through the process of really integrating faith 330 00:26:36,900 --> 00:26:38,800 Into 331 00:26:38,800 --> 00:26:45,160 Just more of a training or kind of a refresher that we do and how we're integrating in every class 332 00:26:45,160 --> 00:26:45,560 Yeah 333 00:26:45,560 --> 00:26:46,020 and 334 00:26:46,020 --> 00:26:52,740 so right now I have two separate schools that are going through that and I've had four that have already been through the process and 335 00:26:52,740 --> 00:26:58,360 We have someone who comes alongside them and helps them walk their walk through that process 336 00:26:58,360 --> 00:27:06,140 Because we want to be purposeful about what we're doing in every class. Yeah. Yeah, and I mean against a stewardship obviously 337 00:27:06,140 --> 00:27:13,620 Parents are sending their young people here with a I would assume with a you know an expectation that 338 00:27:13,620 --> 00:27:17,100 that's that that's encountered and 339 00:27:17,100 --> 00:27:20,980 and yet I think you probably both would agree that if 340 00:27:20,980 --> 00:27:23,260 for 341 00:27:23,260 --> 00:27:28,780 For the young person who is struggling in faith, you know, but it's considering Christian College 342 00:27:28,780 --> 00:27:35,420 My story is one, you know toward the end of my high school career. I was planning on going into broadcast journalism 343 00:27:35,420 --> 00:27:37,420 I was applying to Indiana University 344 00:27:37,420 --> 00:27:42,140 at the time I had all A's but one C in Spanish - and 345 00:27:42,140 --> 00:27:48,780 I you wrote me back and said hey reapply next semester at the end of your senior at the end of your senior year and 346 00:27:48,780 --> 00:27:54,020 The other Christian College that I was headed off to it already accepted me and I said by God's good grace 347 00:27:54,020 --> 00:27:56,800 I said, I guess that's the you know, that's the direction I'm going 348 00:27:56,800 --> 00:28:01,260 but I I think I think for the young person who is 349 00:28:02,780 --> 00:28:08,100 Has questions about faith is struggling maybe it's not had the greatest discipleship experience 350 00:28:08,100 --> 00:28:14,060 Is grace a place for them? How does how does how does that fit for them Wally? 351 00:28:14,060 --> 00:28:17,880 I guess you know, what are your thoughts? Yeah, I think so. I mean 352 00:28:17,880 --> 00:28:22,360 You know, they I think through through the chapel experience 353 00:28:22,360 --> 00:28:28,900 so students will have they they go to three chapels a week and they're they're also part of growth groups and and 354 00:28:29,860 --> 00:28:36,420 Even though Chapel does not replace the local church. We really encourage students to get involved in local churches as well 355 00:28:36,420 --> 00:28:39,980 I think I mean I think through all these different things and the courses 356 00:28:39,980 --> 00:28:42,620 that Kevin 357 00:28:42,620 --> 00:28:46,160 Spoke about I think it's a good place for somebody to you know 358 00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:51,780 For God to get get a hold of somebody's heart and really begin to do a work in it. So yeah. Yeah. Yeah 359 00:28:51,780 --> 00:28:57,140 Yeah, never never again. Will you have this kind of community? 360 00:28:57,820 --> 00:29:03,060 Experience and exposure. It's true. I think that's maybe one of the hardest things after Christian College 361 00:29:03,060 --> 00:29:09,580 I would say is I had this just really robust built in, you know, I'm learning all of these things 362 00:29:09,580 --> 00:29:13,000 I'm having really making deep personal connections 363 00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:19,140 Maybe for some of you finding finding your future spouse maybe on top of that, you know 364 00:29:19,140 --> 00:29:23,820 Whoever whoever that might be. No, no, she said okay questionable 365 00:29:25,820 --> 00:29:30,620 Our producers along the window someone's getting called out as we as we speak but I 366 00:29:30,620 --> 00:29:38,760 Mean what an opportunity what an experience and and I I just think of even some of my lifelong friends some of my deepest relationships 367 00:29:38,760 --> 00:29:44,000 I thought they'd be like oh in my younger years. I'd be making those but really I mean college college was the place 368 00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:45,740 There's a few people that will 369 00:29:45,740 --> 00:29:49,000 You know be friends forever out of that. I think that's that's really important 370 00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:53,660 What 371 00:29:54,660 --> 00:29:56,780 What are you guys seeing in terms of 372 00:29:56,780 --> 00:30:00,740 in terms of the students that are that are coming here and 373 00:30:00,740 --> 00:30:03,020 You know 374 00:30:03,020 --> 00:30:04,660 They're having these 375 00:30:04,660 --> 00:30:10,540 Really great experiences or these great resources and just kind of their own faith development and their own their own discipleship 376 00:30:10,540 --> 00:30:16,400 What what are college students struggling with right now? Is it the same thing? They've always struggled with 377 00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:18,740 Is it just that the season of life that they're in? 378 00:30:18,740 --> 00:30:25,980 This is kind of the the laboratory in which they they do the struggling or would you guys identify certain things that are? 379 00:30:25,980 --> 00:30:28,460 Are of particular challenge right now 380 00:30:28,460 --> 00:30:36,820 And maybe maybe how grace collectively or in your classes how you've just tried to be sensitive to that and in student development 381 00:30:36,820 --> 00:30:43,680 Yeah, I would say one of the things that you you see and if you look at the CDC flow data that looks at like 382 00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:45,180 mental health for 383 00:30:45,180 --> 00:30:48,160 our students 18 to 29 year olds 384 00:30:48,680 --> 00:30:51,320 you know if you go back to December of 385 00:30:51,320 --> 00:30:58,480 2019 before kovat, you know, we were seeing you know a combination of depression anxiety at 10 11 percent 386 00:30:58,480 --> 00:31:04,240 You know, it shot up to around 48 percent and has stabilized back down into the 30s 387 00:31:04,240 --> 00:31:08,760 Yeah, so depression anxieties. I mean obviously one of the things that 388 00:31:08,760 --> 00:31:14,440 I think we have a generation that are just struggling more and 389 00:31:15,080 --> 00:31:20,280 You have that's one of the things I think you have to ask yourself now is you know 390 00:31:20,280 --> 00:31:24,200 It when you go off to school and you're just thinking about just intellectual development 391 00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:26,600 it's about the whole person development and 392 00:31:26,600 --> 00:31:33,300 And that means you're gonna have to deal with some stuff that maybe's been a real challenge that you know 393 00:31:33,300 --> 00:31:37,200 we had a group of students who were staying home and 394 00:31:37,200 --> 00:31:44,800 Social isolation is the biggest predictor of poor mental health. Yeah, right and that that did a lot of damage 395 00:31:44,920 --> 00:31:48,660 and we're we're and in the college we're 396 00:31:48,660 --> 00:31:56,040 trying to help unpack some of that and we talk about those things in Chapel and we we talk about those things on the hall and 397 00:31:56,040 --> 00:31:59,600 As we try to serve our students, yeah 398 00:31:59,600 --> 00:32:06,800 What what would you say is just in terms of student life here kind of the home the hallmarks of? 399 00:32:06,800 --> 00:32:13,600 I think you've talked kind of it. There's a small kind of a small group component to but just the hallmarks of Grace College 400 00:32:14,080 --> 00:32:20,280 Student student life like the things that are kind of trying to fill the cup of community experience and relationships 401 00:32:20,280 --> 00:32:25,360 What would you identify here is like the some of the strong kind of a high the high notes and all of that? 402 00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:30,200 Let's say Chapel is definitely, you know, it's required, you know, so 403 00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:35,920 All of chapel every single one of us three times a week 404 00:32:35,920 --> 00:32:42,920 We get up early where make sure the first there absolutely but a lot of my students are involved in leadership in Chapel and and which 405 00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:45,600 So I kind of that they they obviously if you're in leadership 406 00:32:45,600 --> 00:32:53,160 It's a different experience. I think I think Chapel is a real important part of the campus life here. I think just the 407 00:32:53,160 --> 00:32:58,400 where we are just geographically miss it just a beautiful place to be and I 408 00:32:58,400 --> 00:33:02,240 Kind of refer to it as the the Shire, you know, it's kind of the Shire 409 00:33:02,240 --> 00:33:06,800 I said got the lake and it's just you know, some hiking and it's just you know, and I think 410 00:33:06,800 --> 00:33:11,720 You know for some students maybe you know, depending on what their home life is like 411 00:33:11,720 --> 00:33:13,720 I mean, I think in fact I had a student 412 00:33:13,720 --> 00:33:16,440 She's like our Christmas break was way too long 413 00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:23,160 I was so ready to come back because her situation was just not not great and she's like I just miss yeah 414 00:33:23,160 --> 00:33:28,720 The the people here, you know, and I think I mean I hear that quite a bit, you know, that's awesome 415 00:33:28,720 --> 00:33:35,120 Yeah, I would say the other thing is our student affairs is very committed to a sense of belonging 416 00:33:35,120 --> 00:33:38,540 And and I think that's important today, you know 417 00:33:38,540 --> 00:33:44,140 We don't used to be we put up these townhouses and those were the quickest ones to fill and now it's our dorms again 418 00:33:44,140 --> 00:33:51,580 It's like the community living and I think that's a little bit of a response to that social isolation piece 419 00:33:51,580 --> 00:33:59,060 Right. So I think that sense of belonging is something that our student affairs talks a lot about and trying to help people find 420 00:33:59,060 --> 00:34:00,620 their place 421 00:34:00,620 --> 00:34:04,960 Yeah, that's it's just good to know again. I 422 00:34:06,100 --> 00:34:10,800 Know from for myself and I'm sure this is still the case for for many college students 423 00:34:10,800 --> 00:34:13,800 like there are so many resources out there and really 424 00:34:13,800 --> 00:34:21,880 the tendency is to underutilize to underutilize them as opposed to kind of diving headfirst and and for any I 425 00:34:21,880 --> 00:34:23,880 mean, I'm I'm 426 00:34:23,880 --> 00:34:28,860 Assuming you would approve of me saying that, you know here here at grace. I'm sure 427 00:34:28,860 --> 00:34:35,800 Really asking questions for potential students people are looking to come here asking the questions about really 428 00:34:35,920 --> 00:34:39,200 understanding all those resources that are available and really getting I mean 429 00:34:39,200 --> 00:34:43,320 It's a really great way to get the full picture of what the college what any college experience can be about 430 00:34:43,320 --> 00:34:48,480 I know for me I thought when like I was doing my initial walkthroughs 431 00:34:48,480 --> 00:34:53,760 whatever it's like I'll never use this stuff or I'll never make use and then and then at some point if you get smart and 432 00:34:53,760 --> 00:34:57,360 You wake up. You're like you're like, oh I I probably could use 433 00:34:57,360 --> 00:35:03,440 The writing the writing assistance lab maybe or or the clinic down the hall or you know 434 00:35:03,440 --> 00:35:06,000 like those things are here for for us and for me and so 435 00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:10,720 Obviously you guys do a really great job of that here just in providing those services 436 00:35:10,720 --> 00:35:17,680 And so that would be you know for anybody who is check out. Yeah, what's the check out those check out those those things? 437 00:35:17,680 --> 00:35:19,760 Okay, Andy 438 00:35:19,760 --> 00:35:24,600 Pop quiz pop quiz. All right, here it is time questions again two questions again and 439 00:35:24,600 --> 00:35:28,740 I'll go first. You're gonna go first this time if you have 440 00:35:29,380 --> 00:35:35,120 Somebody like a assistant helping you and walking you around every day with you. What would you have them do? 441 00:35:35,120 --> 00:35:38,820 Like one one task, what would you have them do? 442 00:35:38,820 --> 00:35:42,180 answer emails 443 00:35:42,180 --> 00:35:44,940 Kevin really 444 00:35:44,940 --> 00:35:46,940 Yeah, I would say writing 445 00:35:46,940 --> 00:35:49,460 handbooks 446 00:35:49,460 --> 00:35:57,220 Are you responsible for handbook writing in some ways? Yes. Yikes things they didn't warn you about 447 00:35:58,660 --> 00:36:00,660 For the for the job 448 00:36:00,660 --> 00:36:06,120 Gosh my question is is going to be 449 00:36:06,120 --> 00:36:08,200 Oh 450 00:36:08,200 --> 00:36:11,840 I know of all the places that you have visited 451 00:36:11,840 --> 00:36:14,360 vacationed visited in 452 00:36:14,360 --> 00:36:19,880 In the world where I was initially gonna say the US we're just gonna give a global we're gonna give a glow because I'm maybe some 453 00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:24,060 Of you who maybe you guys have done some global travel of all the places that you have been the world 454 00:36:24,060 --> 00:36:26,080 What what's the favorite spot? 455 00:36:26,080 --> 00:36:28,080 Minneapolis 456 00:36:28,080 --> 00:36:40,380 So this past May we took students to Budapest we did a music tour there and so we have we actually have a sister 457 00:36:40,380 --> 00:36:48,100 University there called koroli gaspar. So koroli gaspar was the he was the reformer in Hungary 458 00:36:48,100 --> 00:36:51,360 okay, kind of after Luther a little bit and 459 00:36:52,280 --> 00:36:58,500 It's the largest reforms Christian Reformed University in Hungary about 6,000 students 460 00:36:58,500 --> 00:37:05,360 So we have an exchange we have professors that go teach there and students that kind of come back and forth 461 00:37:05,360 --> 00:37:09,920 But we took a group of worship art students over there 462 00:37:09,920 --> 00:37:14,420 We did some concerts and and it's kind of my new my new favorite place 463 00:37:14,420 --> 00:37:14,740 You know 464 00:37:14,740 --> 00:37:21,300 You have the the Buddha side the Peche side and and the river separating the two and it's just gorgeous kind of that old 465 00:37:21,780 --> 00:37:23,780 Eastern European 466 00:37:23,780 --> 00:37:28,060 Yeah, beautiful people 467 00:37:28,060 --> 00:37:35,200 Wonderful. Yeah. Yeah, we have a go encounter which requires our you know students to have some kind of cross-cultural experience and so 468 00:37:35,200 --> 00:37:38,220 Many of our faculty have been all over. Yeah, so 469 00:37:38,220 --> 00:37:44,160 I've been in Greece three times and I have to say standing in Philippi. Oh 470 00:37:44,160 --> 00:37:47,060 Where there's still uncovering 471 00:37:47,060 --> 00:37:49,380 Areas of it right in there 472 00:37:49,460 --> 00:37:55,860 But when you're standing in Philippi and you walk down a set of stairs and they're like, I here was Paul's prison cell. Yeah 473 00:37:55,860 --> 00:38:01,860 So here's the doors that opened and you know, it's just a different level of experience 474 00:38:01,860 --> 00:38:04,700 then when you're standing in Corinth and 475 00:38:04,700 --> 00:38:11,780 You know those experiences with students are just unbelievable amazing. Amazing. Okay 476 00:38:11,780 --> 00:38:14,440 Well gentlemen, you've successfully passed again again 477 00:38:15,180 --> 00:38:21,860 You know which which you know when taking a quiz as a professor it feels like there's a there's a higher standard there and you guys 478 00:38:21,860 --> 00:38:24,140 Have hit it out of the park. So congratulations. Well done 479 00:38:24,140 --> 00:38:28,540 As always I just want to say thank you 480 00:38:28,540 --> 00:38:32,780 To both of you for just coming on and joining us and being part of this experience 481 00:38:32,780 --> 00:38:34,860 I I'm I just love the fact we were able to 482 00:38:34,860 --> 00:38:41,900 Share this time. I love the fact that we've given this grade a content as well to these students 483 00:38:42,060 --> 00:38:45,520 They they get they're gonna probably do some sort of remix on this 484 00:38:45,520 --> 00:38:49,780 Add a lot. I hear adding a lot of echo really goes a long way 485 00:38:49,780 --> 00:38:53,240 You should see them staring back at me like this guy. Okay 486 00:38:53,240 --> 00:38:57,520 But but yeah to all of you. Thanks for joining us here at the dudes and dads 487 00:38:57,520 --> 00:39:04,100 Podcast we're so grateful to have you each and every week. You can head over to dudes and dads comm 488 00:39:04,100 --> 00:39:07,380 for all the goodies the merch past 489 00:39:08,620 --> 00:39:15,780 Episodes future episodes even well, we'll put the future episodes on the hill. It's like a it's like a time machine on a website 490 00:39:15,780 --> 00:39:20,740 AI Andy, it's crazy. What's what's out there now? It's possible 491 00:39:20,740 --> 00:39:26,640 Wow, or you can head over to dudes and dads podcast at gmail.com. You can send us an email 492 00:39:26,640 --> 00:39:31,660 We'd love to have your ideas for future show. We do love ideas for future shows 493 00:39:31,660 --> 00:39:35,720 Sometimes people are like hey, I have someone that you should interview because they have a great story 494 00:39:36,580 --> 00:39:40,500 We would love that and we don't know about those people unless you tell us 495 00:39:40,500 --> 00:39:46,040 So get after it dudes and dads podcast community get after it. The job is yours 496 00:39:46,040 --> 00:39:48,380 Help us out 497 00:39:48,380 --> 00:39:53,800 Okay. Well, hey guys, we look forward to seeing you next time and until then we wish you grace and peace