Stars on Sports Intro: It's time for Stars on Sports! A podcast-radio show dedicated to sharing stories about our athletic program at Lansing Community College. LCC athletics has a strong tradition. 24 national championship wins! Over 170 All-Americans! 19 MCCAA All Sports trophies! Stars on Sports will introduce you to individuals that have contributed to our program success and give you the backstory on what it takes to develop it. We'll also dive into and break down the topics and issues facing athletic departments across the nation and right here at LCC. This is Stars on Sports!

Hello and welcome to another episode of Spirit Stars on Sports. I am joined today by our assistant athletic director, Steven Cutter and our producer, Jereny. And today, Steven, we're going to be talking about great coaches and you know, in previous podcasts we've talked a lot about coaching and we've talked about Ted Lasso and you know, I don't know what order these will come out in, but you know, I thought there was some good conversation this and as you and I have talked before this podcast, you know, this could be numerous podcasts, but at the time of this recording, there's a lot going on in the sports world and just really intrigues me to analyze coaches in other levels and other sports. And you know, I've never done a Mount Rushmore of coaching. For me, John Wooden is the one that I always think of that I will always look at and we'll talk more.

Pardon? I've been to Mount Rushmore.

I have not. That is one place I would like to go. Journey. You've been to Mount Rushmore.

Never been to Mount Worship.

I would like to go, but is there anything else around it to make

it a trip or I think while drugs near there and I think going there once is, is, you know, perfect.

Okay, I would like to be there. That's amazing. You know, the car of that in stone. And I'm a big person on presidential history, which is a whole track here.

I love that you want to talk about, you know, coaches and all the things going on in the sports world. I almost feel like you should change the name of the podcast from Stars on Sports to Modern Wisdom at this point.

Well, again, I hope this podcast is a combination of that. You know, obviously we want to talk about LCC sports, but you know, part of our job as stars representing stars is sports issues. So that has seemed to be where our podcast has gone and you know, it gives us a good half hour each week to talk about issues going on in our sports and hopefully we can tie them into what's going on in LCC sports because a lot of good things are going on there, but again, just learning and discussing and helping me be better at what I do by discussing the issues that are going on in sports right now. And one of those is, again, as we talked about Ted Lasso, a previous podcast, and the characteristics that he brought to coaching soccer, one of the statements that hit me was, great coaches can coach any sport. And I believe that, you know, and so I really thought a lot about that over the. Since we've had that last recording. So. And I think, you know, I thought you agreed with that a little bit. And I do.

I just, like, I. I don't know if there's a ton of examples at the higher levels. I think that it's pretty. You can see it at the high school level a lot, but you don't see it as much at the college level. And then certainly at the. Once you get out of the amateur levels and you're at the professional level, you just really don't see that a whole lot.

And you don't. I mean, you know, as we know as the higher level you get, the more focused and pinpoint laser you are on. On that particular, I want to say job, but it is a lot of hours and it's hard to coach a secondary sport at the level.

Did you see that at the high school level where you had really good coaches that coached multiple sports?

I hadn't thought of that until you brought it up, but I did. I mean, I can think of a couple examples of coaches that they had a main sport, but they would coach another sport in a second season and they were successful. I mean, I know one gentleman that coached three sports and, you know, they were pretty good in all three sports, and he was helping the school out by, you know, because they couldn't find a coach in tennis or something. And. But he was a good coach and he got them better than they were. They might not have been in an elite level, but the main sport he coached, they. They usually were. And again, there might be some counter there of was he as good in one sport as, you know, by coaching three. But, yeah, I think that's a very good level to determine what we're talking about today, because I have seen high school coaches that if they were good in one district I was in, you know, we had a successful coach that won state championships and we hired him in another sport once he, you know, quit that sport. And he was pretty successful. Not as successful. He didn't win state Championships. But you know, he was, you know, they were, they contended at the highest level. So yeah, I think there's proof at the high school level. But obviously we hit the harder at our level or even higher because it's a year round job that, you know, you're second season is your out of out of season. So and we've talked this morning how important those are to being successful.

Yeah, everybody gets 24 hours in a day, so you can only give 100% and you know, so you got to choose what you're going to do. And I think if you're doing multiple sports, it's going to take away, you know, each one of them is going to take away. That doesn't mean that you can't be successful. You hit, hit on state championships. And that isn't necessarily in our view, and I know you believe this too, that you got to win a state championship to be a successful coach or a national championship to be a successful coach. And I think that's important to put that out there because I know we both believe that success looks different than just the trophies.

Yeah, definitely. Again, retention of student athletes, you know, seeing kids or young adults smile or having fun out there are clues of if, if you're doing a good job. And you know, one of my favorite things about John Wooden was I don't think he won a national championship until like 16 years into his career. So was he bad coach for 16 years? I mean he was, they won conference championship, but then once he won a national championship, I mean he won 10 of like the next 12 or something and had really good talent, you know,

which may just show that he got really good at, you know, stacking those bricks. And he himself got better as a coach as things went along. And then you started seeing some of those fruits of that labor. So that certainly could have been the case.

And I think that's true of all coaches, you know, and you got to set standards and you got to adapt. And you know, I look at, you know, Bill Belichick per se and you know, he was the Cleveland Browns coach in the early 90s and didn't have that success that he did at the Patriots. But I think he learned a lot from being a Cleveland Browns coach. I think Nick Saban learned a lot from being at Michigan State what not to do and often somewhat, I mean, as a coach you do need to learn from failure and what not to do. And the best ones do, they change, you know, they get better at it. So, you know, and to your point about John Wooden, I mean, he was a teacher. He was pretty even tempered, you know, think that I, you know, like to look for in coaches. You know, coaches are teachers. So, you know, that's one that's probably always drawn him to me. I mean, there have been other successful coaches maybe with different attributes. You have any in mind that you think of right away when you think of great coaches?

I think there's a lot of great coaches that make up, you know, whether it's the amateur level or the professional level. You know, I go back to coaches like Nick Saban that have had a lot of success, and they are kind of. Nick's been copied in a lot of ways. And I think when you're getting copied, the stuff that you're doing is getting copied everywhere. He kind of was the one that started building the program and started saying, this is our process, this is what we're gonna focus on. And then that's been copied around the country. And so that's a good thing. It's also different, though, because. And we're in a different times. Somebody like John Wooden who lost for 10 years or wasn't really very good, not everybody knew that he wasn't very good. But today In a Power 5 basketball program, everybody's going to know that that's a struggling program. And I think the patience is a lot different today at all levels than what it used to be.

But I think it's important, and that's very interesting. Two things. Imitation is the best form of flattery. And in our business, there's a lot of imitation going on and stealing from coaches. But. But patience is another thing. And too many people, you're so close to success and you quit. We see a lot of student athletes that one more day they might have made it, but a lot of people quit before they're successful. And that's the same in my business. Athletic administrators maybe giving up on somebody that might be really close. And we talked about.

You see people that have success and quit too. Jim Harbaugh, right?

Yeah. I mean, going for other 6 higher level success. But. But as we've talked about too, on this podcast, sometimes success people handle success different ways.

Absolutely.

You know, some become satisfied and you want to, you know, go out on top, and others, you'll want to get that next one. You know, one of my favorite quotes from Tom Brady was, what? What's your favorite ring? And he always said, the next one. You know, he had that drive to win another one where we know it's very difficult to. To maintain that Drive once you are successful. And we've seen that with a lot of successful teams. But now you got me rattled picking up Jim Harbaugh.

I got a question. So one thing I like about different coaches is what's the unique thing that you see coaches do that separates them from other people? Like, I know Greg Popovich. He makes all his team have a family dinner. So is this something that a coach that you see do, something that's unique, that separates them? But yeah, I can speak on it. It's usually something centered around trust and relationships.

Yeah. And. And I think it's different for each coach. I mean, like, that's why I struggle with identifying the greatest coaches, because I take certain things from coaches like Bobby Knight. Some people consider the one a great coach. I would struggle just because of maybe some of the. The negative he brought at the end, but he was. He did know basketball and could keep Jackson. Know Nick Saban, you know, some. Again, you mentioned him as a great coach, but, you know, he's so focused on working hard that, you know, doing your job, taking care of staff and such. The demand, there was a turnover there at one time. So I try and pull different things from different coaches, but I agree, trust is a big thing. I believe attention to details is a big thing in successful coaches. You know, I always get asked, what are you looking for when you hire a coach? And at the high school level, I've shared with you, I want communication and organization. Those are two things that parents would be happy with if they. They know what's going on and they can count on a schedule that they can follow because they got other family members that have to deal with it as you get at a higher. I mean, communication is important in coaching at all levels. You know, I. One of my first bosses taught me that communication is at the root of all problems and it solves all problems. Ok. And so good communicators. I look for good communicators when I hire coaches, but in the end, it's passion. You gotta be you and you gotta love what you do because just like any job, it's not easy. I mean, it can be a grind, it can be ups and downs. You know, it's fun when everything is. When you're winning. But that's not every day. And that's not every day you win the day. So, you know, just being your best, even when you can't. So I've always tried to identify if they're passionate about a sport. And I would think their greatest coaches are passionate and they are true to who they are. So what works for Nick Saban won't necessarily work for Jim Harbaugh, which won't work for Gregg Popovich. But there are, I'm sure there are studies out there that identify certain characteristics, and they'd probably be different than me. They'd probably be different than Ted Lasso. Lasso. But I think they're the core group there that you could identify to be successful. But in the end, I mean, it's doing those things at a high level. And once you get to a high level, it's the little things that start separating you. It's those details. It's, you know, it's the standard, the resources, you know, we've talked about before, your expectation, your resources need to match your expectation. There's some great coaches that just don't have the resources to be successful. And, you know, and being a good fit, you know, I've been fortunate being job that I felt it was a good fit for me, that allowed me to be better at what I'm doing instead of fighting the current. So there's just so many. I mean, we talk about. There's just so many factors to be successful and then even, you know, being successful consistently, you know, like as we talk about this at this podcast, the Lions made it to an NFC championship, which is great, first time since 91. But can they consistently make it there like the Chiefs have or the Patriots have? And those are what separates, you know, the good from the great teams and how you do it. And getting their experience matters. You know, having the experience of getting there now and how do you use that experience to get you ready for the next time? Because it's not easy in sport, you know, it's not always the best team that wins. It's the team that's playing the best at the end of the season that wins. So some of the best teams in history did not win championship. Some of the best quarterbacks, some of the best pitchers, you know, or hitter did not win championships. And there's a number of factors. And some of the best coaches did not win championship. That's why, again, we don't measure it just on championships. One, but it is part of the picture, guys, I went on a rant there for a while. Someone sub in, but yeah, so I don't have a Mount Rushmore. I like learning from all coaches, good and bad coaches inspire me. The work they do, the impact they have on other people's lives, the quality they provide for people. So, you know, that's what inspires me trying to learn from each one. But you know, looking back, you know, I can, you know, there's a lot of debate out there about the greatest coaches.

Yeah, I think with everything there's going to be a lot of opinions from others as far as my determinations of what makes really good leaders is leadership. And if you can get people to kind of pull on the rope for each other and in the same direction, that's what makes, if you look at all the teams and coaches that have had success, that's, that's what it looks like. They're able to get people to do things that they wouldn't ordinarily do. And, and you look at those teams and that's, that's what they do. That's what makes some of the professional teams, that's what makes amateur teams and the really good coaches, they're, those faces are changing on a yearly basis. At our level they're changing, you know, half the roster a lot of times is leaving on a yearly basis. At the four year level it's a little bit different and at the professional level it's probably closer to what we experience where there's a lot of turnover every, every year, you know, and things change. But just because the face has changed doesn't mean that your processes change. And if you, you can get the people to buy in to a similar standards and goals, you can do some really incredible stuff.

And I think that's what a championship team is and what the greatest coaches that they become player led. And you know, I've really, I just read a great book, the Captain's Class, which is about the greatest leaders in dynasties over the past hundreds of years. And it was about not the popular captain, but that captain on a team that the team would just go through a brick wall for. I mean they just, you know, the captain just led by example, they worked hard, they weren't always the best player. And you know, back to your point of leadership. You know, some of my favorite moments in watching games is watching huddles and watching, you know, when teams come off the field and watching the, the players lead those. And I've, you know, a couple games in Gannon recently, I've watched where a coach is called a timeout and they don't even go in the huddle and they have the players talking about what is going on out on the court. And I just think about how powerful that is because I think it means a lot if another player is, is communicating to you what you need to do and also that they know and have learned of what they should be looking for and deal with.

Assuming that trust is, is there. Because certainly I've seen situations where players have tried to lead and they don't have the trust of the team and that doesn't necessarily work. So I still believe that it comes back to leadership is something that you learn how to do. It's a muscle that you build. It's not something that you're naturally born with, it's something that you learn. And that trust is something that's very similar to building. It takes time to build that trust. And, and the best teams have the trust amongst each other and, and that's just what it looks like. And the, the teams that struggle are, are a little more common. Those teams have less trust and they have less belief in each other.

Yeah. And the teams I watched, it felt like the trust was there. I would agree it takes a lot to build trust and only one moment to break break it. That, you know, damages you for a long time, but I think you can read the mannerisms like if they're arguing or people aren't listening. But in these cases, I mean you could tell that, I mean these, these student athletes were, you know, leading and you know, providing the, the message. It was, it was inspiring. It was incredible. So, so that's what, you know, stuck out with me. And I thought, well, that's, you know, a well led team if they had the student athletes being able to deliver the message for the coach. And you're right, it doesn't work for everybody. But I do think it works for the greatest coaches. And trust and leadership are both attributes that help with this. And I don't think we do enough of, you know, leadership training, you know, spending time on teaching leadership, you know, whether we, you know, you do it or not, you could probably always do it more. Talking about the 24 hours in a day, it is important at least spend some of that day on teaching leadership, bringing in speakers or researching and giving a presentation, but

I think it's super important if you can do that because leadership starts with yourself and if you can't lead yourself, you're not going to be able to lead anybody else. You might not be able to lead your teammates, your co workers or the student athletes. So you have to start building that leadership muscle and you start with yourself. And once you're able to get better and better and better and keep stacking those bricks, then you can start leading others. And that's, that's what I mean by you're not born with it. You are continually working on it, trying to get better.

Agree. You can't take care of others until you take care of yourself. And you know, again, we expect everyone to take care of themselves. But leaders are they have the responsibility of taking care of the others and we take for granted, you know, because I don't know if they're the natural born leader out there or not. That'd be a whole nother podcast, but interesting. But it is important that we just assume that either the best player is a natural leader or the coach's kid or just certain demographics we look at where you can teach anyone to be a leader. And having leaders on your team is very important to your success. And I think a great attribute of some of the most successful coaches is they understand the importance of of leadership. But as we wrap up, I didn't even get the chance to talk about Dan Campbell today. As you know, he is very intriguing to me. So that will be a whole nother podcast where, you know, belief in yourself, being true to you are using analytics. So we'll talk about that another time because I think that's very intriguing. And again, it just shows that all coaches are different. Be the best of yourself and be true to yourself and they'll help you lead to success. Thanks for listening and Go Stars.

Leadership Lessons from Ted Lasso