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Well, hello and welcome to the e commerce
podcast with me, your host Matt Edmundson.

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Besides me is the beautiful, talented
Sadaf Beynon again, the show's producer,

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here in our little mini series in August.

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I'm calling it a little mini series,
Sadaf, because I can't think of a better

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name to call it, if I'm honest with you.

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It sounds more grandiose maybe
than what it actually is.

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Uh, but we're yeah, we're here in august
doing something a little bit different

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on e commerce podcast uh, we're chatting
about some of the Workshops that we've had

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on e commerce cohort and the lessons that
we have learned as a result of them If

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you're new to the e commerce podcast then
e commerce cohort is basically the The

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thing that sponsors the e commerce podcast
wants for better at the thing the thing

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that sponsors I need a better Better intro
than that Um, but yeah e commerce cohort

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is part of what we do here It's like a
monthly mastermind group with coaching

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and and all kinds of good stuff in it.

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And so that's what we Have every month
we have an expert workshop and throughout

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August, we thought we'd do some shorter,
smaller episodes where we just pick off

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some of the lessons that we've learned
in cohorts, talk about those, gives you

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an insight into what cohort is, helps
you understand it a little bit more,

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um, and also gets to profile some of the
lessons that we've learned ourselves.

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In cohort, which is great and I just love
talking about Ecom and also it means the

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episodes a little bit shorter Which is
good during August as we're all probably

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doing other things in August on where we
all sort of take August a little Bit more

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of a chill seat some of you listening to
this because I know people listen to this

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around the world We're going no Matt.

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We don't we work really hard in August.

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Can you stop with this?

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We're taking August off nonsense
I'm sorry That's you, but I,

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for one, I'm taking August off.

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So it's, um, it's good to be doing these.

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So yes, let's carry on.

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Sadaf, how are we doing by the way?

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Uh, cause we've not
actually talked that much.

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We've just got on the call
and said, right, let's start.

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We just hit the record button.

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Uh, and you got up late this morning.

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That's as much as I know.

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Just a little bit late.

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And, um.

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I've got my, I've got my coffee.

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So I've got my caffeine
fix and we're good to go.

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Awesome.

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Awesome.

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In case you've not heard any of the
other August episodes, by the way, Sadaf,

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who is the show's producer, normally
works here in Liverpool, but is in.

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Canada at the moment visiting family and
so you're working from Canada, hence the

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reason we look like we're miles apart.

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We're not in the studio and um,
you're drinking coffee first thing

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in the morning and I've just,
actually if I, if I, I show you this,

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I've just finished some ice cream.

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That was, that was on my desk.

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You're keeping that quiet?

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Yeah, well, you know.

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I don't like to brag.

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So yes, I had a bit of the
old ice cream going on there.

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So, um, so yes.

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So cohorts, let's talk about
a workshop from Cohort.

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Which one should we talk
about today, Miss Producer?

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So, um, so today we are going to
dive into the world of marketing

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personas, um, which we had a
workshop that was done by Neil Hoyt.

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And, um,

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well, technically the
workshop was inspired by Neil.

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Sorry, inspired.

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Yeah, I have to get, we have
to get it right because it's

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going in the public sphere.

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Uh, it was a workshop inspired by Neil.

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This was a workshop that, um, Neil
delivered at Subsummit and I was in

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the audience taking lots of notes.

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He was talking about marketing personas
and I thought this is fascinating and

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I took lots of notes and spent a lot of
time thinking about how it works for our

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e commerce business, reapplied them and
that was a workshop that we delivered.

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So, uh, big thanks, big shout
out to Neil, who is coming on

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the e commerce podcast actually.

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Uh, he's coming on the show.

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You're sorting that out, aren't you?

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I sure am.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, yeah.

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So he's uh, he's coming on,
which is gonna be great.

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So Neil, if you don't know, is
the chief measurement strategist.

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I think that's his title from Google.

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Mm-hmm.

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. So he's all things data, basically.

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He's a really clever
dude, really nice guy.

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Give a really engaging
talk as well as sub summit.

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I bet.

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Yeah.

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Top I

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top.

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So, um, Matt, maybe you can talk
about what could possibly go wrong.

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If the marketing persona
isn't constructed well

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This is interesting because what neil
talked about the show you see when

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we comes to marketing and we talk
about personas everybody Instantly

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thinks about my customer persona.

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Don't know they're like right
we have eileen and eileen's

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in her mid 30s and she has 2.

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4 kids, drives around in a Volvo
and lives in a semi detached house.

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And she reads Country House Magazine
and she does this and she, and we

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start to build up this profile of our
customers and we call them customer

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personas, helps us with the marketing.

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Awesome.

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What Neil talked about, which I thought
was really fascinating was not the

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personas of your end customer, but
the persona of your marketing team.

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So the, the marketeers in your
marketing team, which I appreciate

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for many business is the same person
who runs the business and owns it.

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Um, but if you're like me and you're, you
know, you're, you're privileged enough to

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have a marketing team, then the marketing
team can fall into or marketing team

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members can fall into one of, uh, I think
it was five personas that he talked about.

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Um, and I was, I have to be honest
with you, when he was talking about

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them, I was, I was properly engaged
because I, I saw myself in every

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single persona, uh, that he went
through and I thought, Oh, that's me.

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Oh, that's me.

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Oh, that's me.

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I need to be aware of that.

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And so yes, he, um.

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He talked about these sort
of five different personas,

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uh, and I just loved it.

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And the first persona was the one
that just absolutely tickled me.

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And this is, the analogy that Neil
used, which I thought was a great

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analogy, was This guy is The guy that
goes into a bar on a Friday night, no

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one knows him, no one's ever seen him.

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No one even cares about
him in a lot of ways.

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Just goes into the bar on a
Friday night and literally goes

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around every single lady in that
bar and says, will you marry me?

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Will you marry me?

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Will you marry me?

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And for that guy, it's,
it's not about courtship.

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It's about.

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Um, getting the whole complete
transaction done in one easy go.

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And so many times as marketers we do that.

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We market to people in such a way that
we're literally asking them to marry us.

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It's like we've gone from zero to a
hundred miles an hour, uh, instantly.

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And I thought it was a great analogy.

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Um, and you know, the obvious thing there
is actually, do we just need to step back

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a little bit, engage in a little bit of
courtship, uh, as they say, and start to

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woo potential customers rather than just
going in and saying, Hey, listen, buy.

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buy.

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buy.

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Uh, and so yeah, it kind of
went on from there really.

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So that's, I'm not going to lie.

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Uh, so yeah, really, really
interesting conversation around that.

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Cool.

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So, um, I guess, uh, what we're saying
is that, that if our personas aren't

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aligned properly, marketing personas.

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aren't aligned, aligned properly,
then that's going to also misdirect

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the, the direction of the business.

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Is that right?

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Is that what we're

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saying?

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Yeah.

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In essence, what he was saying
is there are these ways that

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we can screw up marketing.

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And he used this concept of personas,
um, like the guy who's in the bar.

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Um, he used another one that Uh, you know,
another persona that always had the belief

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that they could make everything right.

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Um, that we could win, given enough
time and enough energy, we could win

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everybody, which is not true in marketing.

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But one of the things that we find
very hard to do in marketing is to,

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um, ignore some people on our email
list for the benefit of others.

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In other words, we give everybody equal
time, um, rather than prioritizing time.

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Towards those more valuable
customers and giving them more time,

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giving them more attention, giving
them more reason to buy from us.

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Uh, and that kind of action, that kind
of behavior, which he described as

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these sort of these five personas, but
it's behaviors, it's things that we do

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as marketeers, which sabotage sabotage
is a better way to say that, isn't it?

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Sabotage, uh, marketing efforts.

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So, yeah, he, in essence, yes,
it's that sort of thing that we do.

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That stops us performing.

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Well, in our marketing, um, and
he, he used data from Google.

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Obviously they, they have a lot
of data at Google and it's like,

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these are the, the, the key things
that we see people fall in foul of.

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Um, and that was really,
really interesting.

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Um, and so, yeah, that, that one, like
I said about, you know, the person

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that believes that they can market to
everybody, given enough time and energy,

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they can win everybody, which is not true.

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Um, but it is a belief that
we have, that is a mistaken.

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belief, if that makes sense.

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Yeah, it does.

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Thanks for that.

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Um, I think he also introduced
us to the concept of attribution.

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Could you talk about that too?

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This was hysterical.

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This was when, uh, you know, you,
there's a conversation, Oliver raised

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it in his workshop, you know, we
talked about Oliver and last week.

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Talking about metrics, right?

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And so how do you measure
stuff in e commerce?

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And attribution is one of those things.

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It's one of those big things that people
are really struggling to get right.

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Like how do we, you know, there's always
a discrepancy between For example,

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if you do advertising with the Meta
platform, whenever you go into Meta,

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it will tell you that it's generated
this many sales, but you look on Google

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and Google tells you, no, no, no, no,
they've generated that many sales.

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And then you look at your own platform
and your own platform says, no, no,

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no, no, both of those are wrong.

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This is how many sales
have been generated.

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And you're like, well, which one's right?

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Like how do we attribute
a sale to a source?

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Because if we want to
understand how well our.

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Google ads are doing or how well
our meta ads are doing, then if we

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can correctly assign sales to those
sources, we can then effectively

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measure our return on investment.

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This is becoming harder and harder
to do, um, and something that

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Oliver touched on actually in the
workshop in terms of attribution.

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But Neil also touched on this,
uh, and this was a hysterical one.

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He gave an example, um, of a
lady who bought a pair of shoes.

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Which, on the surface,
sounds very trivial.

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Sounds very basic.

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Surely this lady just saw an ad, went
on to the shop, bought the shoes.

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No, no, no, no.

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So, I think there was like two hundred...

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I can't remember the exact number,
so I'm going to get it wrong.

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But in essence, there was like
260 different interactions this

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woman had with that company.

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From their emails, their social media,
their website, their paid media, going

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around all these different channels.

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216 over a period, I think of it as
like, yeah, over a period of like one

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to two weeks before she bought anything.

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Um.

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And it's hysterical, right?

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Two hundred and for a pair of shoes!

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I've no I and I I I still struggle with
this, but maybe that's what I do, I

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don't and maybe I just don't realize it.

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Um, ironically, I sent a pair of
shoes back this morning, and I

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went on the website to have a look
at some more shoes to replace the

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ones I sent back, and again...

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There was, I've purchased from them
before, I've been on their website.

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They're now showing me those
shoes, obviously on social media,

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because I've been on their website.

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I haven't yet purchased.

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They've got emails.

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Where do they attribute that sale?

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So even me, it's maybe not going to do
216 different, uh, you know, interactions.

232
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Maybe I'm just doing 30.

233
00:12:21,235 --> 00:12:22,865
I don't know, but it's a lot.

234
00:12:23,775 --> 00:12:27,905
And so Neil's question
was, how do you attribute?

235
00:12:29,670 --> 00:12:34,950
How do you take a complex journey
of 260 odd interactions and

236
00:12:34,950 --> 00:12:36,040
interacting with everything?

237
00:12:36,060 --> 00:12:40,390
At what point was the
buying decision made?

238
00:12:40,400 --> 00:12:44,330
So how do we attribute the point
where that lady bought the shoes?

239
00:12:44,330 --> 00:12:46,230
And the answer is you really.

240
00:12:46,730 --> 00:12:53,750
really cannot And so you just can't you
just don't because it's all it's all

241
00:12:53,750 --> 00:12:58,760
connected it's all one big Ecosystem
that's all sort of working together.

242
00:12:59,680 --> 00:13:01,130
And again Oliver touched on this.

243
00:13:01,130 --> 00:13:04,550
There are certain things you can
measure and you should measure Um,

244
00:13:04,600 --> 00:13:07,960
and you should obviously try and
attribute as well as you can, but you

245
00:13:07,960 --> 00:13:10,810
need to understand attributions not
perfect and you need to look at your

246
00:13:10,810 --> 00:13:13,510
business as a whole, um, in effect.

247
00:13:13,520 --> 00:13:17,790
And so Neil was just basically talking
about people that, that spend hours

248
00:13:17,790 --> 00:13:22,340
trying to credit sales to a one
specific source where possible so

249
00:13:22,340 --> 00:13:23,760
they can measure return on investment.

250
00:13:24,430 --> 00:13:27,110
And that's just getting harder
and harder and harder to do.

251
00:13:29,410 --> 00:13:33,860
So it can, um, help us
understand our marketing efforts.

252
00:13:35,140 --> 00:13:38,600
But it doesn't necessarily
Lay it all out for us.

253
00:13:38,930 --> 00:13:41,700
It kind of points us in the right
direction Is that what attribution

254
00:13:41,700 --> 00:13:43,080
does then for a marketer?

255
00:13:43,670 --> 00:13:48,420
Yeah, like I say you can attribute stuff
You can you can say right from Facebook.

256
00:13:48,590 --> 00:13:49,640
We've got had this many sales.

257
00:13:49,640 --> 00:13:50,650
I'm from Instagram.

258
00:13:50,660 --> 00:13:52,770
We've had this many sales It's not
going to be tightly accurate and

259
00:13:52,780 --> 00:13:56,455
we can as long as we apply the same
measurement techniques every Month,

260
00:13:56,495 --> 00:13:57,965
we're getting at least some relative.

261
00:13:58,615 --> 00:14:03,305
What Neil was saying and what I think
is quite right is you cannot attribute

262
00:14:03,385 --> 00:14:09,565
Everything you just can't and so it's not
it's not a perfect system And so yes, it's

263
00:14:09,595 --> 00:14:12,285
good to look at your ROI from Facebook.

264
00:14:12,305 --> 00:14:16,475
Yes, it's good to look at your ROI from
Instagram or Pinterest or Google shopping

265
00:14:16,475 --> 00:14:17,775
or wherever you do your paid media.

266
00:14:18,515 --> 00:14:24,465
Um, but you need to look at your
ROI as a company, as a whole, and

267
00:14:24,685 --> 00:14:29,885
bring all this together and, and not
be so anally retentive about trying

268
00:14:29,885 --> 00:14:32,785
to get attribution bang on perfect.

269
00:14:32,975 --> 00:14:36,725
Um, and, and crediting the
right accounts with the right

270
00:14:36,725 --> 00:14:37,765
numbers, if that makes sense.

271
00:14:38,435 --> 00:14:40,185
Yeah, yeah, that does make sense.

272
00:14:42,075 --> 00:14:49,575
So marketing personas are, are, um,
quite critical then to the, to a

273
00:14:49,575 --> 00:14:53,065
successful marketing strategy as well
is what we're, what we're saying.

274
00:14:53,725 --> 00:14:54,755
Yes, we are.

275
00:14:54,985 --> 00:14:57,195
And that's exactly what
Neil Hoyne was saying.

276
00:14:57,195 --> 00:15:00,185
I'm just going through his
notes here, um, that we've got.

277
00:15:00,425 --> 00:15:03,845
Um, but yeah, he talked about.

278
00:15:06,195 --> 00:15:08,605
People who are great listeners
but poor conversationalists.

279
00:15:08,615 --> 00:15:11,085
They capture a lot of data but
don't know what to do with it.

280
00:15:11,915 --> 00:15:14,475
Um, which he says is deeply
frustrating for customers.

281
00:15:14,475 --> 00:15:17,915
You've been on websites, I've been on
websites where, um, they've asked you

282
00:15:17,915 --> 00:15:20,915
for some information and then again
at some point in the future they ask

283
00:15:20,915 --> 00:15:23,935
you for that same information or that
information in a slightly different way.

284
00:15:23,935 --> 00:15:26,295
You're like, well I've just given
that to you, why do you not know this?

285
00:15:27,185 --> 00:15:29,495
Um, so he talked a lot about that.

286
00:15:30,075 --> 00:15:36,285
Um, he talked about the rational
thinkers, which I thought was funny.

287
00:15:36,815 --> 00:15:41,885
That belief that consumers are rational
when clearly they are very irrational.

288
00:15:42,515 --> 00:15:45,705
Um, and it was the perfectionist
persona, the one that wanted to attribute

289
00:15:45,715 --> 00:15:50,175
everything, um, and have perfect data,
but we don't live in a world where

290
00:15:50,175 --> 00:15:51,815
you can actually have perfect data.

291
00:15:53,345 --> 00:15:54,995
And so that was, so
yeah, just going through.

292
00:15:56,000 --> 00:15:59,970
Um, some of his notes here,
but he has got a book, Neil.

293
00:16:00,300 --> 00:16:04,530
Uh, so the bar persona, this, these
were the personas, that's right.

294
00:16:04,530 --> 00:16:08,060
So the bar persona, we talked about the
hopeless customer, romantic persona.

295
00:16:10,380 --> 00:16:14,060
Their optimism is that they can
turn anyone into a perfect customer

296
00:16:14,310 --> 00:16:18,260
with just enough time, just enough
effort, and just enough budget.

297
00:16:18,730 --> 00:16:20,240
And they treat everybody the same.

298
00:16:20,695 --> 00:16:22,565
Uh, which is just crazy.

299
00:16:22,765 --> 00:16:24,655
Um, so yeah, all kinds of stuff like that.

300
00:16:24,935 --> 00:16:33,015
But let me find you the, his book, um,
because I've ordered it, it's arrived

301
00:16:33,015 --> 00:16:34,825
and I'm looking forward to reading it.

302
00:16:35,545 --> 00:16:39,275
Um, and the book is converted
the data driven way to win

303
00:16:39,275 --> 00:16:41,155
customers hearts by Neil Hoyne.

304
00:16:41,710 --> 00:16:47,410
Uh, from Google, the chief measurement
strategist at Google, and his book's

305
00:16:47,410 --> 00:16:48,890
got some great reviews, actually.

306
00:16:49,510 --> 00:16:52,080
Um, so I'm looking
forward to reading that.

307
00:16:52,330 --> 00:16:53,470
Uh, but that was a great one.

308
00:16:53,560 --> 00:16:58,660
That really was a great one on, um, uh,
on cohort is the word I'm looking for.

309
00:17:00,060 --> 00:17:00,300
Yeah.

310
00:17:00,410 --> 00:17:01,400
Sounds really informative.

311
00:17:01,450 --> 00:17:06,420
Is there anything else, Matt, that
stuck out to you from his talk?

312
00:17:08,200 --> 00:17:14,360
Uh, one of the interesting
things about Neil was the talk.

313
00:17:14,370 --> 00:17:17,440
As far as I understand, this
was all hearsay and conjecture.

314
00:17:17,440 --> 00:17:19,120
I've not actually asked
Neil about this yet.

315
00:17:19,170 --> 00:17:20,680
And I don't think Neil
would tell me the answer.

316
00:17:21,350 --> 00:17:24,080
But there was this rumor going
around at Subsummit that one of the

317
00:17:24,080 --> 00:17:26,510
keynote speakers couldn't make it.

318
00:17:27,010 --> 00:17:31,000
Uh, and as Neil was going on
stage, the organizer's like, could

319
00:17:31,000 --> 00:17:32,250
you talk a little bit longer?

320
00:17:32,685 --> 00:17:37,015
And he pulled it, he pulled it out of
the bag, no questions asked, no problem.

321
00:17:37,015 --> 00:17:39,885
No one knew any different and
everybody thought you've just

322
00:17:39,885 --> 00:17:41,405
done a really engaging talk.

323
00:17:41,405 --> 00:17:43,875
So he's a very good communicator,
a very good speaker.

324
00:17:44,555 --> 00:17:50,825
Um, it's, uh, it's, it's really
fascinating how, how well he

325
00:17:50,835 --> 00:17:52,275
actually did that, you know.

326
00:17:52,815 --> 00:17:57,145
Um, but yeah, great guy, really
great stuff that came through.

327
00:17:57,355 --> 00:17:59,675
And, um, yeah, we, like I said,
we went through it a lot more in

328
00:17:59,675 --> 00:18:01,215
detail in cohort, but I think.

329
00:18:01,505 --> 00:18:01,825
Yeah.

330
00:18:02,540 --> 00:18:08,410
When you listen to his notes and
read his book, um, and then go, um,

331
00:18:08,450 --> 00:18:11,280
you, the question is, am I doing
this in my e commerce business?

332
00:18:11,280 --> 00:18:12,560
Am I doing this in our marketing?

333
00:18:12,560 --> 00:18:16,790
So for me, they were the questions
that we asked, what of these

334
00:18:16,790 --> 00:18:18,280
are we doing in our business?

335
00:18:18,860 --> 00:18:21,950
Are we like the bar persona guy?

336
00:18:21,980 --> 00:18:25,810
Are we like asking everybody to marry
us on our first date kind of thing?

337
00:18:26,450 --> 00:18:31,450
And Sometimes we were, we were quite
aggressive in some of our email campaigns.

338
00:18:32,670 --> 00:18:35,010
Um, and they've changed recently.

339
00:18:35,010 --> 00:18:36,590
Our email campaigns have changed.

340
00:18:36,600 --> 00:18:38,710
There's a lot more
content, a lot more wooing.

341
00:18:39,370 --> 00:18:41,150
And I was talking to Shel
about this this morning.

342
00:18:41,150 --> 00:18:43,270
Our email is killing it at the moment.

343
00:18:43,320 --> 00:18:44,070
Better than it ever has.

344
00:18:44,970 --> 00:18:48,840
Um, and so, so one thing sort of
knocks on and leads it to another.

345
00:18:48,840 --> 00:18:50,150
So we've been around for years.

346
00:18:50,180 --> 00:18:52,000
Don't get me wrong, it's
not like we're new to this.

347
00:18:52,430 --> 00:18:55,440
Um, but it's just great that you,
you do something like this workshop

348
00:18:55,440 --> 00:18:58,490
and you hear from someone like
Neil and you kind of go, Hey, Yeah,

349
00:18:58,490 --> 00:18:59,950
actually I need to think this through.

350
00:19:00,860 --> 00:19:02,430
What are the implications of that?

351
00:19:02,530 --> 00:19:03,030
And...

352
00:19:03,775 --> 00:19:10,035
Um, do we treat every customer the
same or do we treat a higher value

353
00:19:10,035 --> 00:19:11,745
customer slightly differently?

354
00:19:12,095 --> 00:19:14,995
Are we wooing them in better
and more efficient ways?

355
00:19:14,995 --> 00:19:19,165
And I think we were probably more on
the side of the scale, which said,

356
00:19:19,165 --> 00:19:20,595
we're treating everybody equally.

357
00:19:20,785 --> 00:19:22,775
We're just sending everybody
the same email newsletter.

358
00:19:22,805 --> 00:19:24,415
We're giving everybody the same offers.

359
00:19:25,275 --> 00:19:26,065
So what would happen?

360
00:19:26,065 --> 00:19:28,525
We didn't do that totally,
but what would happen if we.

361
00:19:28,955 --> 00:19:33,125
If we focused maybe more time, more
budget, more effort just on these

362
00:19:33,125 --> 00:19:35,615
customers over here and again.

363
00:19:35,980 --> 00:19:36,790
It's pain for us.

364
00:19:36,800 --> 00:19:38,560
So it's, yeah, yeah.

365
00:19:38,560 --> 00:19:39,410
It's totally worth doing.

366
00:19:39,670 --> 00:19:42,040
So we learned a lot actually
from that, that workshop.

367
00:19:42,040 --> 00:19:42,990
I really enjoyed that one.

368
00:19:42,990 --> 00:19:43,830
It was very good for us.

369
00:19:44,220 --> 00:19:48,410
Like I say, just listening to his
critique of marketeers, just from a

370
00:19:48,410 --> 00:19:53,010
data point of view, um, you know, using
data to sort of figure it out and then

371
00:19:53,010 --> 00:19:55,620
just, uh, looking at your own business
and examine it and thinking about

372
00:19:55,710 --> 00:19:57,185
what that means was very, very good.

373
00:19:57,325 --> 00:19:58,005
Very helpful.

374
00:19:58,185 --> 00:19:58,765
It was a great workshop.

375
00:19:58,785 --> 00:19:59,055
Yeah,

376
00:19:59,935 --> 00:20:00,455
that's cool.

377
00:20:00,795 --> 00:20:02,575
Looking forward to having
him on our podcast.

378
00:20:03,315 --> 00:20:04,855
Yeah, he's a legend actually.

379
00:20:05,155 --> 00:20:05,855
Yeah, really good.

380
00:20:05,855 --> 00:20:06,825
I'm looking forward to it.

381
00:20:06,825 --> 00:20:09,755
So we've connected, we've been
emailing back and forth and I know

382
00:20:09,755 --> 00:20:12,175
you've been talking with his guys
about getting him on the show.

383
00:20:12,995 --> 00:20:14,995
Um, and so yeah, looking
forward to doing that.

384
00:20:15,155 --> 00:20:16,345
Do we have a date yet?

385
00:20:17,055 --> 00:20:17,825
We do not have a

386
00:20:17,825 --> 00:20:18,325
date yet.

387
00:20:18,875 --> 00:20:23,625
Uh, I can tell you we're going to
record sometime soon though, maybe

388
00:20:23,625 --> 00:20:24,935
September, October time we're recording.

389
00:20:25,115 --> 00:20:26,205
September, September,

390
00:20:26,205 --> 00:20:26,595
October.

391
00:20:26,615 --> 00:20:26,905
Yeah.

392
00:20:28,305 --> 00:20:28,555
Yeah.

393
00:20:28,555 --> 00:20:29,905
Looking forward to it.

394
00:20:32,985 --> 00:20:33,375
All right.

395
00:20:33,395 --> 00:20:36,095
So I think we can end it there.

396
00:20:36,885 --> 00:20:38,065
That's bite size.

397
00:20:39,705 --> 00:20:40,225
End it there.

398
00:20:40,225 --> 00:20:41,105
That's bite size.

399
00:20:41,875 --> 00:20:42,105
Yeah.

400
00:20:42,175 --> 00:20:42,615
Is that what you said?

401
00:20:42,935 --> 00:20:44,725
That's it.

402
00:20:45,915 --> 00:20:46,485
Moving on.

403
00:20:47,275 --> 00:20:47,665
We're moving.

404
00:20:48,025 --> 00:20:52,878
Well, the show's producer said
that's it ladies and gentlemen.

405
00:20:52,878 --> 00:20:53,625
So I'll tell you what I'm going to do.

406
00:20:53,625 --> 00:20:55,245
You can tell we talked this one through.

407
00:20:56,035 --> 00:20:57,225
I'm going to play this.

408
00:20:57,720 --> 00:21:01,520
Uh, music and just say thank
you so much for joining us this

409
00:21:01,520 --> 00:21:03,100
week on the e commerce podcast.

410
00:21:03,470 --> 00:21:06,690
I hope you're enjoying your August
wherever you are in the world and enjoying

411
00:21:06,820 --> 00:21:09,080
hopefully some sunshine and some rest.

412
00:21:09,570 --> 00:21:10,290
That's it from me.

413
00:21:10,290 --> 00:21:11,350
That's it from Sadaf.

414
00:21:11,660 --> 00:21:13,780
We will see you next week.

415
00:21:14,430 --> 00:21:14,880
Bye for now.