Simon Weston: And then we just heard, “It's air raid warning, green. It's red. Its red. Get down, get down.” So, I got down into a crouch, I was just about to lay on the floor and then the bomb came through the side. And I saw the bomb come through the side.

Andy Coulson: Hello, and welcome to another episode of Crisis What Crisis, the podcast that provides those valuable lessons to help you live a more resilient life. If this is your first time with us, please do hit subscribe wherever you're watching or listening, and please do leave us a review, it really does help make sure that these are hope useful conversations are shared as widely as possible.

Hello, and welcome to another episode of Crisis What Crisis – the podcast that provides the lessons to help you live a more resilient life.

If this is your first time with us, please do hit subscribe wherever you are watching or listening, and please do leave us a review. It really helps make sure that these, I hope, useful conversations are shared as widely as possible.

I am so excited by today’s guest … someone who has been such an inspirational figure for my entire adult life … and who I know has impacted many millions with his story of courage but whose approach to resilience …. to avoiding bitterness … was there long before it became the more fashionable subject of discussion and debate that it is today.

Simon Weston: What people have got to do is just learn to like themselves. Not love themselves, not fawn all over each other, but look in the mirror and say, “Yes, your contribution to life has been worthwhile. Look what you've done, look at the difference you've made.” And if you haven't made a difference, there’s time.

Andy Coulson: Falklands veteran Simon Weston CBE is also an ambassador for that truest of truths … that there is nothing more useless than a self-appointed victim.

A pioneer in personal resilience, and a man for whom opportunity from crisis is less a motivational mantra … but more a way of life.

On June 8th, 1982, while serving with the Welsh Guards in the Falklands War, Simon was aboard the ship Sir Galahad when it was bombed by Argentine forces.

Simon Weston: All hell broke loose, and chaos reigned.

I tried to help a friend of mine but unfortunately, he died in my hands. And I realised- he kept slipping through my hands and my hands were melting. But I just tried to help him. It's instinct. Please don't think that it's heroics, it's just instinct

Andy Coulson: The attack killed 48 of his fellow servicemen and left Simon with severe burns to 46% of his body. He was not expected to survive.

What followed was years of reconstructive surgery—more than 90 operations—alongside an even greater challenge: rebuilding his sense of identity and purpose after such profound trauma.

But rather than allowing that trauma to define him, Simon has used his experience to help others.

Simon Weston: I learned a long time, what made me so important? What made me so important I wasn't going to get injured? But then after I got injured, what made me so important that I wasn't going to have depression or post-traumatic stress disorder, or I wasn't going to become a near alcoholic, or I wouldn't almost commit suicide and become so depressed that I almost did that, and I wouldn't drink as much as I did? What made me so important I wasn't going to have normal reactions to what had happened? Which I did. I did. It's just what happened. And it was in part my weakness to do these things, but in part my strength to overcome them in the end.

Andy Coulson: His recovery and journey to find new meaning in life have been chronicled in several groundbreaking BBC documentaries, making him a household name and one of Britain’s most respected voices on overcoming adversity as a campaigner, speaker and author.

Beyond that, he has dedicated his life to working with charities, including his role as the honorary president of DEBRA supporting those living with the rare genetic skin condition EB.

Simon’s brilliant work has earned him a CBE and bluntly, given the impact he’s had and continues to have, he deserves much more.

It must be time for Lord Weston to take his seat in the House of Lords. The campaign starts here …

Simon Weston, welcome to Crisis What Crisis

Simon Weston: I feel very flattered, what a build-up.

Andy Coulson: In preparing for today, I listened to your Desert Island Discs interview with Sue Lawley back in 1996. Fascinating for a whole bunch of reasons. And Sue Lawley and Desert Island Discs, without doubt my favourite piece of broadcasting. But what was interesting to me is that the language that Sue used when she was talking to you was pretty direct. Not unsympathetic, but pretty direct.

And the way that you described what had happened to you and your approach to your recovery was also pretty direct. No frills. Certainly not using the language that has now become so fashionable that I referenced in that intro.

I'm keen to ask you, do you think that we've got this conversation on resilience? And I'm asking someone who is the very embodiment of it, in the right place? Do you think maybe we're having the right conversation about resilience, about grit?

Simon Weston: I'm not here to tell people they've got it right or wrong, I am able to say that I think that the messaging that people are putting out there is incorrect.

People need to understand that if you think of yourself as a victim and you campaign as a victim, then you will always remain a victim. You have a look at people who call themselves survivors, how much more they achieve, how much more they do. And I just get quietly perturbed about people who are always banging the drum for sympathy.

Why are you looking for sympathy all the time? Is it not better that you go out there and seek respect and have people look at what you do and like or revere even for some people. I've seen people that I revere, and I think, “Wow, look at what they've done. Incredible, despite what's happened to them.” And as you said in the intro, I never wanted to be defined by what happened to me, I wanted to be defined by what I did about it, and I continue to do that.

I was asked recently what is the one thing that I'm most proud of, and there isn't one thing that I'm most proud of. I mean, maybe I'll reflect on my life later on when I finally decide to hang up my travelling shoes, and I’ll look and see what it is. But at this moment in time, I just think that you've got to keep moving on and trying to change yourself and change things.

But I just think that people are too scared to face the realities of what life is. Life is hard, life is uncompromising, and we've got to stop expecting every single person on the planet to compromise for your individual tastes, foibles, upsets, quirks.

It seems like everybody wants everybody to come along and put a stick in plaster on their emotion. Where does that come from? When I was injured, I got told the truth. Not about what was happening to me and my injuries. Yes, that was told to me, but I also got told about my attitude. I also got told about where I was letting myself down. I got reminded that I had a duty to myself and to others, and show the respect, stop feeling so sorry for myself, because it's an inevitability when you're in hospital. You're a young man, young woman, whatever you are, and you're in a world of pain and a world of uncertainty, but then you start to feel a little sorry for yourself.

Andy Coulson: Do you remember the first time you were you were forced to confront that? The first time that conversation took place.

Simon Weston: The first time I confronted it was with myself. They had given me so many heavy painkillers, and I can easily see how you can become addicted to painkillers. And there was this wonderful nurse, and she came into the burns ward, which was the high dependency burns ward, there was only three or four beds in there. And it's where they put people in individual rooms, and if you died, you could be smuggled out and nobody would know. Because they expected me to die for at least three months when I came back.

Anyway, I was in there, and this wonderful woman came in, and she was a wonderful person. And I start- well, I heard somebody saying some awful things, and I mean, very flowery language, very offensive, directed at one person, at her. And I thought, “Oh, my goodness, who would dare say something like this?” I looked around the room, there was only me there. And these heavy medications they put me on absolutely turned me into somebody I didn't want to be.

And I hated myself for taking- so I stopped taking painkillers, even though I was in extreme pain.

Andy Coulson: This is how long after you've been injured?

Simon Weston: Well, it kept me down in the Falklands for three and a half weeks, where I went from being an 18 stone prop forward to just under 8 stone. And they operated to save my eyesight. So, I was in a world of confusion and, you know, irritation. And I'm not great when I'm irritated.

Anyway, by the time this happened, probably two and a half months, three months. Because when they got me back home and then I went into immediate surgery, I had had one operation to save my eyesight, and then I was having an operation-

At first, when I arrived back home, once they'd settled me down from the journey, it was almost two a week for a bit. And then after ten weeks, I'd had twelve operations. So it was in that period, I couldn't tell you exactly when it happened. But all I remember is I was so embarrassed, even though I was full of medication, and it was still coming- I humiliated myself. And it was out of my control in many ways because of the medication. But I just thought, “I can't do this. I can't be something I'm not. I can't be who I'm not.” And that was the start of the journey.

Don't get me wrong. The feeling sorry for yourself and all of those other things, once they took me out of the high dependency ward and put me back into general population, there was a huge amount of development still to go. But that was dealing with people. At the time I was there, I was on my own. So, I was only looking at what I needed, I was being very selfish. But I'll never forget that.

And I think I've embarrassed myself many, many times in life, as we all do. But that was right up there with the most embarrassing thing I've ever done, even though it was out of my control. So, I swore I would never take anything like that again if I could help it. There's always going to be times when you don't have a choice. But at that point in time- and I've never really taken any heavy medication ever since. Not for any injury.

Andy Coulson: That’s another demonstration of your innate resilience which, you know, is really what I want to talk about today.

Do you mind if we go back? Let's just talk a little about your younger self, pre-Army, pre-guards, pre-Falklands. Just tell me a bit about Simon Weston as a younger man and what led to the Army.

Simon Weston: Well, the younger man was somebody that made very poor decisions. My parents had split up and I never really ever saw my father again, thank God. But anyway, he left and then I started making poor choices, like I was blaming something or somebody and there was nobody to blame, mum and dad fell out, they didn't-

Andy Coulson: How old were you when he left?

Simon Weston: 11 or 12, 11 maybe.

Andy Coulson: Right, so a presence in your life but not a positive one.

Simon Weston: No, my stepfather was the man who really made a man out of me. That and the Army.

But what happened was that I was kind of starting to mix with the wrong crowd. And then when I got to 14, I thought I was being clever and I started hanging around with men, young men. They were 26, 27, 28, but they were men, nonetheless. And they were involved in all sorts of vehicle theft, and I became very adept at opening and starting cars. I couldn't drive them, so I never got done for driving and taking away. But I did get done for opening and starting cars. It was a skill back then and I learned it very quickly. Using manicuring scissors, oddly enough. But anyway, nothing I'm proud of, because I embarrassed my mother.

And after I had to go to court, I just wanted to make my mother proud again, I wanted to redeem myself.

Andy Coulson: You’re what age at this stage?

Simon Weston: 15. Went to court just after my 16th birthday, finished my probation. And back then the military wouldn't take you, normally. But some people pulled a few strings to let me in at that point in time rather than waiting. Because there's always a cooling off period when you've committed a crime, so, “Come back in a year or two's time and if you kept your nose clean, we'll give you a go.” But they took me straight in.

So, at the age of- I signed up when I was 15, when I was 16, I was in the Army. And obviously the judiciary looked at that as well, that I was making positive steps to redeem myself. And that was it, off I went. Joined the Welsh Guards, or went to the Guards Depot in Pirbright, as it was then.

Andy Coulson: And you were all in on this decision. This was something that you were as enthusiastic about as those who were concerned about you heading off in the wrong direction. You were excited, committed.

Simon Weston: Yes. Excited, committed? Excited, nervous, committed? Well, we were going to see about that. But once I got there and I met a load of other boys from all walks of life; Scottish, Irish, Liverpool, Cockneys, Cornish, Geordies, they were all in there. And I just found that I absolutely loved it.

And it was hard. God, it was a hard- it was extreme regime. You know, we got knocked about. But at the end of the day, we had 120, 130 of us start and only 26, 27 finished.

Andy Coulson: So, when I'm thinking about the sort of resilience muscle that's being built pre-Falklands, what happened with mum and dad it sounds like that was a difficult early part of your life. And then what happens with the law, the impact of that on you. And then these early days in the Army as you say, tough. A 16-year-old lad thrown into that kind of environment, that is sink or swim stuff.

When you think about the resilience post-Falklands that you've demonstrated, do you sort of look back on those early years and think, “Actually, it's not just about what happened to me and my ability to react to it in a certain way, but actually I had a little bit of resilience training”?

Simon Weston: There are always redemptive moments in everybody's life, if you're willing to look for them and see them. And I had lots of signposts along the way.

Recently, I've taken to telling people that whatever happens in my life, the right people come into my life at the right time. And I don't know why that happens, but the right people come into my life. And whether it's my personality, whether people see something they can try and extort out of me, I don't know what it is. But anyway, the right people come into my life at the right time.

Andy Coulson: You say that because occasionally you've been let down?

Simon Weston: Oh heck, yes. But everybody has. Anybody in the public eye has been let down at different times and has been misled by different people. That would be foolish to say it's never happened to- and lots of people have had it.

Andy Coulson: You keep the door open.

Simon Weston: But if you close the door, you close the door to opportunity. And one of the skills of life is to identify opportunity. You know, what you do with that opportunity once you've identified it, that becomes a more difficult task again. Because we're not always qualified or capable of being able to exploit that opportunity for the right purposes. So, you know, there's lots of things to learn.

When I joined the Guards Depot, I was surrounded by a lot of guys. And I didn't realise that I was joining the Army with a guy who was later going to play a part in saving my life; a guy called Jimmy Salmon, James Osborne Salmon from West Wales, from a beautiful little village called St David's. And he was to play a part in saving my life. I'd known Jimmy from the age of 15, 16, and then just short on my 21st birthday, he was 21 by then, he played a big part in saving my life.

Andy Coulson: I want to hear that. I want to hear how and why.

When you get the word that you're off to the Falklands, how long had you been in the Army by that stage?

Simon Weston: Well, 16 through to 21, five years.

Andy Coulson: Right. So how did you feel when that message came through and you were on your way?

Simon Weston: Well, I've been to Northern Ireland, so being in a deadly situation wasn't new to any of us who had been to Northern Ireland. But the conflict was going to be totally different. This was going to be all-out war.

Even though it was never declared war, it was called a conflict but never a war. So, it has different rules, there are different connotations. It's stupid how words alter how people kill each other. It's like Mr. Putin calls it a special operation. So, it's not a war, but it is to those people on the front line, it's the biggest war they'll be involved in. As the Falklands was for me.

But I've got to be honest, when we were going down on the QE2, they wouldn't have put the Paras or the Marines on the QE2, they didn't think they could rough that. So, you know, for people who know what the QE2 stood for, really, it was absolute luxury. I'd never been on a cruise ship before in my life. So, we were going to war, it completely didn't set the right tone, it really didn't.

Andy Coulson: Your memories of those days before the attack, are they still pretty vivid in your mind?

Simon Weston: Yes. I remember the laughter, the skullduggery. They were soldiers and they were young men. And like I said, a lot of them weren't from what people might call the right side of the tracks. So, if it was put down it would be picked up, and it might not be with the same person who put it down. So, they were buggers of boys.

But if you're going to go to war, you want people like that. You don't want people who are risk averse, you have to have people who've got that about them. And everybody needs to have that element of not being scared to find danger.

So, when we went it was a lot of hilarity, a lot of fun. We went down to the Falklands, and I shared a room with two guys, Jim Weaver and Gary Williams. And Jim died. He was one tough character, Jim. And Gary Williams, he came back uninjured and then went to Otterburn, rolled a Land Rover and broke his neck.

Andy Coulson: Oh, my goodness.

Simon Weston: So, it was like our room was destined to have all of these things happen. And out of all of the things that have happened, I probably feel like I'm the lucky one.

Simon, can you take us back? I know this is a story that you've told many times obviously, June 8th, 1982, the attack on the Sir Galahad. What do you remember about that day?

Simon Weston: I remember the incident and I remember my reactions and I remember the explosions. I don't remember the sound.

Andy Coulson: Right.

Simon Weston: They say you never hear the sound of the shot that kills you, and in my case if I had had died I wouldn't have heard it. Because I can tell you now I didn't- I don't know how deaf I was, because-

Andy Coulson: There’s no soundtrack in your head to it?

Simon Weston: There is a soundtrack, but not of the bomb or mechanics, it's more of people. And that's the sound I never want to hear again.

Andy Coulson: Yes. So tell us please Simon, if you don't mind, what happened.

Simon Weston:

We were put on board HMS Fearless because they didn't provide us with any vehicles to take our mortar equipment forward. They did for everybody else, but not for the Welsh guards. So, the little tractor that we were given kept getting bogged down in the mud. The snow cats came past, said they'd be back for us, but they never did.

So, the commanding officer, he took us back around and got us put on board Fearless. Now Fearless was the flagship, so she was headquarters for the whole conflict. That took us around to a place called Lively Island. That's where we disembarked half the regiment onto two landing craft, because they didn't send enough landing craft for us. So that then meant that our commanding officer had to make a decision, and he went against all decisions that you’re taught at Sandhurst, which you don't split your regiment, but he did.

Andy Coulson: So that's kind of door number one that's opened into the wrong room, if you like.

Simon Weston: Yes. Your bargaining chips become less with powers that be, I suppose. But anyway, we got taken back around to San Carlos water, got on put on board Galahad, and she'd been bombed a couple of days before, they were just extracting a 500lb bomb out the side of the ship and they had to weld up the side.

So, we got on and then they decided to put loads of other regiments on with us, or people from different regiments, field ambulance crew, nine squadron power engineer. There was all sorts of different people being loaded up with what was left of the Welsh guard. So, we had about 500 people on board, which is more than should have been there.

And then we set sail late, we set sail after midnight. So, we didn't get around till just as dawn was breaking. And when we arrived, there was nobody waiting for us. And we didn't go to Bluff Cove. Bluff Cove is where the Marines say we went but you know, always question what you read in history, because history is not always made by those people that live it, it’s always made by those people who write about it; Journalists and Royal Marines. Which baffled the hell out of us, because none of us knew Royal Marines could write. And if there are any Marines listening, I'll speak slowly.

Andy Coulson: I've got a feeling that's a joke you've told a few times.

Andy Coulson: I tell you. And I'll speak slower if they're having trouble keeping up.

But anyway, we were there and there was no landing craft for us. And then they sent a Mexeflote which is like a big pontoon which was covered in ammunition, they sent a landing craft called Foxtrot Four which again was filled with ammunition, and both of those got hit during the attack and they've not found nuts or bolts of those. You know, if they'd have put us all on those, 500 people would be dead.

Simon Weston: we arrived and it was a beautiful sunny day, much like the day we've got today, a bit windy, a couple of little puffy clouds, but it was cold. But it was beautiful sunshine, the best day of the conflict.

They opened the top deck so the sun came down into us, but there was no wind in there. So everybody was enjoying taking their jackets off and drying out a bit. And then everybody was having hot tea, fresh bread, because the kitchens were working, so everybody was in good spirits. Everybody was doing a bit of bartering and swapping things, kit and whatever else was going on. Playing cards, in my case, poker dice, which I won. But then again, they were my poker dice, so I was bound to win.

But yes, that's what was going on. We were all ready and prepared to get off, but we just had to kill time. So everybody was in good spirits.

And then we got told to load our Bergens, our large packs, onto a pallet. It was going to get winched out because they'd opened the top deck, because they had cranes up there and that's how they got heavy equipment- if they couldn't drive it off the tailgate they used to lift it onto the shore. Well, they were going to drop the vehicles onto other vehicles. Or they were taking these pallets this time and putting them onto other vehicles.

Anyway, I was one of the last to put my Bergen on, and I was just going to run up to my mate and drag him off these boxes of blood. And then we just heard, “It's air raid warning, green. It's red. It's red. Get down, get down.” So I got down into a crouch, I was just about to lay on the floor and then the bomb came through the side. And I saw the bomb come through the side, and it crashed through where some of my friends were and sleeping and whatever on the boxes of blood. And then it crashed through where I’d left my kit and where my friends were playing cards. And if I'd have stayed there playing cards and poker dice, I'd have died. It crashed in, and the bomb ignited all the fuel in the engine room, which blew out over us. Created a huge fireball, which then went right to the back of the ship and then came barrelling down again. So we got hit twice, because I was right opposite where the bomb hit. And then it went into the open tank deck area and went out. So it was able to go out. And then yes, all hell broke loose and chaos reigned.

And Carlos Cachón led the attack over. He had his own issues getting across to us. The canopies were all covered in sea spray and salt, they were flying 10,15 meters off the water so they couldn't be picked up by radar, they opened up on two aircraft on the west side of East Falkland. They only got two rounds off, the cannons were jammed because of the salt.

They flew around the island, so they couldn't defend themselves in the dogfight. They flew around the island looking for us, couldn't find us. A young officer broke formation at the back, popped up, looked over the hill, he broke against Carlos's orders. Anyway, he said, “There they are.”

Andy Coulson: As I understand it, this is their last run. I mean, they didn't have the fuel to stick around for very much longer.

Simon Weston: Yes. And Carlos said, “Pick your target. I'm taking this one.” And he picked the Galahad. So the other three hit Foxtrot Four hit the Sir Tristum and hit the Mexeflote. But yes, I asked Carlos last year or the year before, I asked him when I was down in Argentina and Buenos Aires, we were in the Air Force barracks, which is absolutely in total disrepair now. But we went into their museum, and they have a memorial room for all the guys that were killed. And just a curious question I said to him, “How long before you decided to turn back? Because you obviously had to refuel getting there. You were limited fuel when you got there. So how long before you made the decision or you were going to turn back?” He said, “About 20 seconds.” 20 seconds. So the difference between me sitting here talking to you now, and you never having heard my name was 20 seconds.

I tried to help a friend of mine but unfortunately he died in my hands. And I realised- he kept slipping through my hands and my hands were melting. But I just tried to help him. It's instinct. Please don't think that it's heroics, it's just instinct. I realised that he had died, and I just got a small waft of air for a second and I realised that was where the fresh air was. So I ran out of the fire, and there was bodies lying everywhere. Not dead, just they'd done the sensible thing and laid down.

I ran across a couple of bodies and people weren't so pleasant about my name. You know, questioned my mother's fidelity and my parentage, that was the language they were using, it was very industrial. And Jimmy Salmon was there and he helped me out of the fire. He helped me up the stairs. He got me up, he got me injected, he made sure I was safe, he made sure I got into the helicopter. Jimmy played a huge part in saving my life. Other people could have, but it was Jimmy.

Andy Coulson: At what point did you have any sense at all of the extent of your injuries?

Simon Weston: Oh, not really until I got back home. I kind of didn't pay much attention to how badly injured I was, I just accepted that I was injured. Just accepted it, and I accepted the fact that so many of my friends had died. I knew Yorkie had died because I asked for him when I was first brought around, because they knocked me out when I was going into shock and then when I came around again I was blind. The trauma to my head was so great-

Andy Coulson: This is once you're off the ship, or this is before you're airlifted.

Simon Weston: In the red and green life machine. And I was being questioned by an officer, but I couldn't see anything. And I just asked, “Who's off?” I said, “Have you done the ORBAT? Do you know who's off? Is Yorkie Walker off, Andrew Walker?” And they said, “We can't see his name on the survivor list.” And I just went, “He's dead.” I knew he had died because of where he was. But there was just- there’s always the chance. There's always the chance that somebody could survive. He was my best mate on board. And that was hard to bear at the time.

But then they took me to the hospital ship. And like I say, as I said earlier on, it took a while for them to help me regain my eyesight. They were taking me off the helicopter, trying to get me through a doorway on a big old Army stretcher. And don't forget, I was 18 stone. So I was heavy, and these Royal Marine bandsmen were they were trying to get me through. I've made friends with a lot of these bandsmen, but they're trying to get- and they couldn't get the stretcher through the door so they tilted it slightly and it still wouldn't go, so they tilted it again and tipped me straight on the floor. Just to prove I was a proper infantry soldier and a prop forward, I got back on the stretcher and they did it to me again. And then after that, a bit of industrial language I said-

Andy Coulson: You must have been in extraordinary pain.

Simon Weston: I suppose. I suppose, you know, it'd be foolish to say no, or to try and be heroic about it. But no, it was just what it was, you know, I was having to deal with it. Don't forget, I was extremely fit, and I was strong, and I hadn't had muscle wastage. The injuries hadn't had time to really bite at this point. So for me to walk to where I needed to go was not an issue. I still had the strength in my legs. but I couldn't see where I was going was the problem. So they had to lead me, catch me by my forearms, because that was the only part they could actually hold that wasn't burnt. So they took me to where I had to go then.

Andy Coulson: So you're dealing with the immediate impact, the physical impact of your injuries. The psychological piece, I suppose it's not until much later that you begin to get an appreciation for exactly what's happened to you. But you're also dealing with the immediate shock of grief. And the immediate, just physical shock of being in an extraordinary, terrifying, traumatic attack. I mean, that's a hell of a lot to have loaded on.

When you think about the sort of internal commentary, hard perhaps from this distance now, that was in your mind, we talk a lot about this with people who have been through different traumas. Breaking it down into just what's immediately in front of you. Is that what you were doing at that stage? Just literally, you talk about walking there, still able to walk, you know? One step at a time.

Simon Weston: There’s a thing in the military, head down arse up . Get your head down and get on with it, drive on. Whatever you're going to do, get on with it. I couldn't change what had happened to my friends so I had to become very selfish and focus on my own survival.

Andy Coulson: Instinct, then.

Simon Weston: If you're fortunate enough to go into that instinctive mode then yes, it was quite instinctive. But I'm now going to make myself sound very weird now I'm not a deeply religious man. My father and grandfather died within five days of each other, two great men, so religion and all went out the walk with me.

But I was lying on the hospital bed and I was just regaining my eyesight and I was fitted with a catheter, they had to cut down in my ankle because if I went into renal failure and my veins collapsed and everything- So I'm lying there and I'm thinking, “Do I really want to carry on with this?” And then all of a sudden this shadow appeared at the end of my bed. It was a big man and he had like a zoot suit on. I couldn't see his face or his features but he had like a big zoot suit on. I was telling my grandmother this and I described- and it was my mother's real father, biological father who died in a motorbike accident before she was born.

I was describing to my grandmother exactly him. He leant on the end of my bed, I still see this image now and I've told this to psychologists and psychiatrists, so I know I'm not- you're not in any danger from me. It nodded at me, it just nodded, and I knew from that moment on that I wasn't going to die from what had happened to me. I knew that I would get better. I had no idea the journey I was going to be on but I knew I was going to get better. I knew I was going to survive it.

So I went to sleep and I had the most restful sleep at that moment, which was probably- that and eating were the most important things.

Andy Coulson: Extraordinary.

Simon Weston: And I wasn't eating at the time so you know, the weight loss and not eating and everything else all compounded on itself, the body fighting to keep me alive. But they gave me this red gloop, like a bottle. It’s only small like a pop bottle, like those little ones you can buy in the shop, and it was filled with this red liquid. I was to find out later on it was like several thousand calories in this gloop. And I loved it then. I’ve tried it since, oh my God, disgusting.

Andy Coulson: You talked about the sort of door opening that and that caused you to be on the on the Galahad. That 20 second window between you not sitting here today and you sitting here. How have you managed that in your mind? How have you dealt with the kind of fate aspect of all this which can so easily tip into the kind of, “Why me?” pot, which is obviously a dangerous place to find yourself?

Simon Weston: I've got an incredible mother. And she said to me a long time ago while I was in a hospital bed, she said, “Simon, you've got to understand, life is about fate and destiny. Fate is what happens. Destiny is in your own hands.” And she was right.

You know, Mum is a real prophet at times. But she also told me a few home truths, and you know, even after being injured, she didn't spare the give me a whack around the chops. And she was right. She was very correct to do what she did. A lot of people go, “Oh, you got smacked? You were injured? Oh, my lord.” Listen, sometimes you've got to hammer home a point. And sometimes you need blunt force and trauma. And my mother was both.

Andy Coulson: And your mum never let you get anywhere near, “Why me?”

Simon Weston: No. Our mum, she always wanted me just to be the best. When I came home, we had an extension built on the side of the house where I put a small gymnasium and I'm forever grateful for the people who were involved in all of that. But then the council who were so good to us, Caerphilly Borough Council was so, so good to my family. I remember them saying, “Right, we'll put all the aids and adaptations in the house,” and my mother said no. She said, “I don't want to find out what he can't do. I want to find out what he can do.” And she left the house completely normal.

There were tiny little clasps and hatch clasps and door openers that I had to negotiate and navigate. And I did, and I have done all my life. And that's the whole point. You have to see what you can do, not sit back and say, “Oh, I can't do that.”

Andy Coulson: Astonishing, what a woman.

Simon Weston: If you accept defeat before you even start, it's like people who say, “I'm going to run a marathon.” And then they go, “I'm not sure I can finish it.” I pretty much guarantee you probably won't, because you've already defeated yourself by your attitude. You know, you've got to be able to face up.

Andy Coulson: What an insight, when her instincts I am sure, I'm sure there's a hell of a battle going on inside her head, right? Because she's your mother and she wants to help and she wants to support. All those instincts would have been there, and yet she's able to realise that's not what you need right now. What you need right now actually is the room and the space to learn for yourself how to cope with this.

Simon Weston: Tough love.

Andy Coulson: Yes, astonishing. Simon, your mum came to visit you in hospital. She didn't realise just how injured you were, in fact she'd been told that your injuries were nowhere near as severe as they actually were.

Simon Weston: People coming to the door telling her I'd only had 3%, 10%, 15%. She had no idea I was as badly injured as I was. And it was when I was coming back through Brize Norton and we went to RAF Lyneham where there was a hospital. She was there with my grandmother, because she'd been told to get on the bus, get off the bus, get on the bus, get off the bus. Which means she was told to come to the airport, go home, come-

Because what happened was the aircraft I was on it crashed in Montevideo in Uruguay, so they had to get a replacement aircraft. The engine exploded and fell all over the runway just as we were about to take off . So you know, thank God it did. Because once we were up it would have been an even bigger problem if we'd been up.

But anyway Mum and Gran were there, and my mother said to my grandmother she said, “Oh mum, look at this poor boy,” and that's when I cried out, “Hey mum, it's me. At least I'm alive.” And that was when her legs went from under her.

Whenever I tell that story it catches me, it catches me. And without a doubt as you get older you get more emotional, but I've got my own children and my own grandchildren, and you don't know the love that my mother had until you have your own. And they had to take her away because her legs went from under her, but I was in that mode of still being selfish and self-preservation, waiting for people to do things for me, to take care of me, to tell me what was happening but that was that was tough, that was tough.

Andy Coulson: Which makes her attitude towards your recovery that you described earlier all the more remarkable, as well.

Simon Weston: Mum was a nurse, she was a nurse. She was a trained psychiatric nurse, then she went to become a general nurse, which is a strange way of going around it. But she did the psychiatric, then she did the general. And the problem with all that is she knew a lot, but sometimes knowing too much, you know? And that's the problem, because she knew she couldn't do anything to help me apart from be there.

But she was great, my mother. She is great, she's still with us, and I love her dearly.

Andy Coulson: You credit your friend earlier as being someone who saved your life. You feel the same way about your mum?

Simon Weston: Without a doubt. She played a part in shaping my life. Carlos saved my sanity, my mother saved my life after Jimmy saved it in the immediate first aid sense. Without mum I would be nothing.

And then I was lucky enough to meet my wife after it all. So it kind of- like I say, the right people come into your life at the right time and without Lucy, I would be nothing. We're still together 38 years on. We're 35 years married this year, 38 years in total, three years courtship. And we've got three children, three and a half grandchildren. By the time this probably goes out we'll have four.

Andy Coulson: Super.

Andy Coulson: And the advice for others is just keep that window open, right? Just keep your eyes and your ears open for those moments, those people.

Simon Weston: Don't be embarrassed by having self-pity. So many people go, “Pick yourself up by your bootstraps,” if they could do that, they would do it. You know, “Snap out of it.” If they could snap out of it, they would snap out of it. Nobody wants to be in a mental disrepair. But the reality is, sometimes it just takes longer for others. But they have a genuine reason, if you've been badly injured or you've had terrible traumatic experiences. But hearing somebody's hurty words, uncomfortable it might be, but seriously, get over yourself.

Don’t take on the royal, “I'm offended on everybody else's behalf.” Don't take on, “Oh my goodness, I read about this and it sounded like me.” You know, I hate people saying, “Snap out of it,” but sometimes, get over yourself.

I learned a long time, what made me so important? What made me so important I wasn't going to get injured? But then after I got injured, what made me so important that I wasn't going to have depression or post-traumatic stress disorder, or I wasn't going to become a near alcoholic, or I wouldn't almost commit suicide and become so depressed that I almost did that, and I wouldn't drink as much as I did? What made me so important I wasn't going to have normal reactions to what had happened? Which I did. I did.

And I'm not embarrassed to say these things, it's just what happened. And it was in part my weakness to do these things, but in part my strength to overcome them in the end.

Andy Coulson: Can we talk about the PTSD Simon, because I know it took a it took a stronghold for a long period of time How did it manifest itself?

Simon Weston: It's really weird. People thought that I was fine because I was in the public eye. I was on TV and everybody saw this guy surviving and doing incredibly well. And inside, I was absolutely crumbling. It was like the walls of Jericho, somebody had blown the bugle and my walls just came tumbling down. And this was every day and every night, and every day it got harder and harder.

Everybody has a trigger with PTSD, and PTSD is an umbrella term. We all sort of suffer from different strands or half strands of it as it all comes down from the umbrella. That's the way I kind of like to describe it. But what was my reoccurring drag me back to the day that I wouldn't wish on anybody, was at 2 or 3 o'clock in the morning, I'd have this black jet, this Skyhawk jet fly over, tear over the top of me with this black hooded figure with flaming red demonic eyes. And every night I was getting burnt, and I was rolling around the bedroom floor and there's nothing my wife could do about it. How she tolerated it, I'll never know.

Andy Coulson: And this is how long after?

Simon Weston: Probably six years. So, for three- or four-years Lucy had to deal with it. And then Carlos said he would meet me.

Andy Coulson: Carlos is the pilot of the plane, just to make clear, he's the pilot of the plane that dropped the bomb.

Simon Weston: He was Captain Carlos Cachón, or Squadron Leader or whatever he was at the time. But anyway he was their top gun, he was their best pilot. I'm very proud to say, I mean otherwise I got bombed by a lesser man.

But anyway Carlos agreed to meet me. I got Malcolm Brinkworth who made all my documentaries, a great guy Malcolm, and Malcolm contacted him and explained to him my mental anguish and my problems. He said, “Would you meet Simon?” and Carlos said in a heartbeat, he said, “Of course I'll meet him.” But he qualified it as well, he said, “I'll tell you the reason why. Because I played a part in his problems, hopefully I can play a part in his solution.” And that's real genuine moral courage.

Andy Coulson: Astonishing.

Simon Weston: And Carlos, if you ever met him- in physical stature he’s quite a small man. In personality and in courage and in moral fibre he's a giant.

Andy Coulson: Did you have doubts about meeting him?

Simon Weston: Of course, yes. Oh god, that was one of the hardest times of my life.

Andy Coulson: There was still a lot of anger, I’d imagine.

Simon Weston: Not so much anger, it was just I didn't know how I would react. Like a lot of other young men at the time, I still had the potential to be quite reactionary. I didn't know whether I'd like him, whether he would be arrogant whether he'd be afraid, whether I would punch him in the mouth. I had no idea but you know, he took the game away from me, he came across the room caught me by my upper arms and he kissed me on both cheeks.

Andy Coulson: So you had these two things going on at the same time. You were leaning, properly leaning into your story. The documentaries are sort of groundbreaking stuff, the access that you gave people. They’re still available now. Watch them if you haven't, because they're astonishing television.

So you sort of opened yourself up in a most remarkable way. But at the same time, you had this parallel process going on that you've described so powerfully with your PTSD.

As you now reflect on it, is it the opening up that saved you? Is there anything about the sort of process that you took or the approach that you took that you think, “Actually, that probably didn't help at the time”?

Simon Weston: Drinking is an absolute no-no. Anybody who tries to hide in a bottle, you're kidding yourself because you'll never beat alcohol. Alcohol will always win. And I have no doubt at all it's the same with any other substance, not that I ever went to anything like that. But I drank too much, which yes numbed the pain, but it didn't help me to deal with anything.

So, you know, you go through all this. And I still enjoy your drink don't get me wrong, but I don't drink to the levels I was drinking then. I could drink more in a day than you could drink in a month, which was- and it's not a brag that's just the level of selfishness I’d got to.

Andy Coulson: But it was also a coping mechanism.

Simon Weston: It was, but I was very selfish about it as well. And I had to deal with it. But Carlos helped me immensely. In the lead up to meeting Carlos I started drinking quite a bit because of the stress of it, and I didn't realise it until afterwards.

Andy Coulson: What did that trip, what did that meeting with Carlos teach you about forgiveness? What's the lesson there?

Simon Weston: There was nothing to forgive. I never felt that Carlos needed my forgiveness. I never felt that he had done anything that deserved forgiving for. I know I've upset a lot of families by having my attitude and meeting Carlos, there’s a lot of Welsh guard families who hate me for that. I can't alter that; I can't do anything.

But what people need to understand is I was saving Simon Weston. Nobody else was going to save me. They weren't going to save me, their lost loved ones couldn't save me, but I had to save me because I was dying inside. I'd already made one failed attempt to commit suicide, I didn't want to go down that road again.

Life is so worth living no matter what's going on with all the idiots that are in charge, all the complete and utter balloons that are in charge around the world. And let’s be honest-

Andy Coulson: It is the age of the balloon.

Simon Weston: Oh the balloon, good gracious, have we ever had more balloons? What they've got is the pretty colours on the outside and totally vacuous on the inside. But the balloons are just there. But you know, people have got to try and find the positives. People who are in a real depression or having struggles with life, and I'm not on about the ones who were having the hurty word conversation with themselves, “Oh somebody said something, oh the stress,” oh bless you.

What I'm on about is you can't stand yourself. What people have got to do is just learn to like themselves. Not love themselves, not fawn all over each other, but look in the mirror and say, “Yes, your contribution to life has been worthwhile. Look what you've done, look at the difference you've made.” And if you haven't made a difference, there’s time. You still have time to make a difference, whoever you make a difference for, as long as it's a positive contribution.

This is what I had to tell myself when they discharged me from the Army. When I was told that my career was over, that there was no chance of me ever going back- I knew it was coming, but when people tell you it's like a kick in the guts. But I sat on the end of my bed and I didn't know what I was going to do. I had no idea. All I knew was that as long as I made a positive contribution to life- and I didn't know what that was going to be, by the way. I had no plan, I've never really had a plan. But I sat there and I just thought. “I don't know whether I'm going to get it right or wrong, but when I meet my maker, whoever my maker is, I'll find out whether I got it right or wrong.” Because that's the only thing I could think, was make a positive contribution to life.

Well, now my work life was changing very dramatically, they said, “You're over, you’re not going to get paid by the British Military anymore so you better find something else to do.” But who wanted somebody who was classified as being 100% disabled, who was disfigured? You’re hardly likely to get a job on the checkout at a supermarket, are you? Or the welcome mat for some big organisation. People are not going to employ you. They don't employ disabled people anyway to do these front-of-house things. So, you know, I was going to have to find my own way.

I was fortunate that the decision-making process was taken out of my hands when I went to New Zealand, and I met a guy called Paul Aginski and he and I came up with something and we started- we set up our own charity. We worked with 85,000 young people, less than 5% ever offended again and it worked. Sadly, it went down with one of the credit crunches that was created by some people in the world in the banking industry.

But at the end of the day, it allowed me to realise that I could fulfil dreams of my own and I could help others fulfil some of theirs. But I could look in the mirror and like Simon Weston.

Andy Coulson: Simon, a follow on from what you've just said. With young men in particular struggling with identity and purpose, we're talking as this new Netflix show Adolescence is bringing the whole issue back into the spotlight again. Young men in particular, incel culture, etc. What would you say to those young men who feel a bit lost, disconnected, angry at the world?

Simon Weston: Each and every person is their own individual self. Social media gets blamed for an awful lot, and it's a great tool but it's also somewhere that people retreat to far too often, and they read all the nonsense that's on there and take on board all the stupidity in YouTube and all these things. People make these little TikToks and all the rest of it, and a lot of it is just absolute nonsense. People really need to try and find their own identity, but you're not going to do that by looking at a tablet or a telephone or being caught up in that technological world because you're living outside of what you can control.

But at the end of the day, you've got to find your relevance. You've got to find where you belong, where you fit. And it's hard for young men, between the ages of 13, right up to 25 in lots of cases, you've got a lot of people that get lost. In the way that the world has gone, and I know men have been responsible for an awful lot of wrongs that have happened to women and other boys and children and whatever else.

But at the end of the day, young men are getting emasculated today because the narrative from the politicians is young men are evil, and we've got to put a stop to this. And then you've got schools, they're sort of ripping the legs out from young boys, being young boys, being daft. They don't mean most of the things they do. We just have to be able to corral them in a different way.

But I just think that we've got to we've got to help young men, young boys, growing young men, to be young men, but be the best they can be. Get them to like who they are rather than be the rebellion.

I've just done a thing in a book for a chap and it is about searching for the joy in life. Not always wanting to be continuously happy, because to be continuously happy is a fallacy, it's an impossibility. But look for the joy, the joyous moments. When your granddaughter smiles at you for the first time, or says your grandparent name for the first time. Those little moments of excitement, and it's like a little spike on the top of the hill, you know? And that's what I look for. I don't look for continual happiness, because that's just a fallacy. Normality is mundane. The mundanity of life is a flat line. And we all walk along that flat line; what we want to avoid is the dips. That's the one, we want to minimise the dips as much as we can.

Andy Coulson: And that's what gives you meaning.

Simon Weston: You just find it in your life and it's for everybody.

Andy Coulson: Yes. Simon, we're going to need another episode to talk about everything that you've done in terms of the way that you've put your story to work over the years for so many people in so many ways. We've touched on it, but one in particular, DEBRA, which is an important charity for you.

Just explain why you got involved in DEBRA and how your story adds so much value for those families that find themselves in the orbit of this terrible condition.

Simon Weston: I spoke about relevance just now. When I was approached about becoming the Honorary President of DEBRA, it makes it sound really grand with all the Presidents in the world who are arguing and shouting. But you know, I got asked and Michael Portillo was just leaving because he had a career to pursue and he couldn't give any time to the charity. He was traveling the world doing his train journeys and what have you, and it provided me with an opportunity to take part. I was approached, and I'd done something for them about 20 or 30 years ago.

Andy Coulson: Just explain what DEBRA does, what it focuses on.

Simon Weston: It's a support charity largely. In the early days it provided teaching for nurses because the NHS didn't. It provided all types of medical support, but it's hugely expensive because it's medical.

But it was a small organisation, which has grown but it's still what you would class as a small organisation which punches well above its weight. And what it deals with is a terrible skin condition called epidermolysis bullosa. It's a missing gene in the body that stops the skin laminating together and it's the worst form of eczema, psoriasis, dermatitis. If you can think of those things which are like blistering and itchy skin conditions, this is where the skin blisters and falls off. And what it, does it stays open for a lot of them and it is open to infection and it can be very life-limiting from experience and longevity.

Some never get their first birthday. Lots of them don't get past their 35th birthday, which is improving with the research that we've been doing, but we need as much support as we can. But when I was approached to take part I had to make the decision, am I relevant to it? Do I have any role? I've spent, if you combined all the time in hospital, around about six or seven years in hospital, and I've had 97, 98 operations, and I understood what it was like to recover the skin, the itch, the pain, the lack of skin on your body for over six years. I understood some of their trials and tribulations, so I felt relevant to the charity.

Andy Coulson: And after 90-odd operations that you've had, you understood the risk of infection as well, which is paramount.

Simon Weston: Well, most of my operations were because they had to replace the skin grafts because of infection, and I still get flare ups of infection now but it's nowhere near what these incredible people have to live with. And the families, you know, it's not just the sufferer of EB, it's the whole family.

Andy Coulson: It's the wider impact.

Simon Weston: Yes. DEBRA takes care of all of that, it helps support all of these people; family days, holidays, information, education. Somebody said a long time ago that knowledge is king, knowledge is power. And the more knowledge we have, the more we're able to help people to understand what their family are going through. I'm so proud.

I've got to know a young family in South Wales who have got a little boy and he's only just- he's almost two. I was there about six or seven months ago when the family raised a phenomenal sum of money for this little boy, how the family have dealt with it. But this little boy has got the worst form of EB, and he's the smiliest, happiest little boy, and it breaks your heart. But when you see the whole family rally to him, you kind of just fall in love with the whole thing, the whole people. They've done everything and they will continue to do everything as long as they possibly can.

And they were devoid of real information until DEBRA came along, and DEBRA were able to wrap them up in the family blanket of what we do and give them the information and the support and give them the right signposts. Because a lot of the time people, when they get desperate, they don't have the right signage where to go, you know? We've all been stuck in some foreign country and not known where to go because you can't speak the language. The language of medicine is a very tricky one.

So, this young family, especially the mum, I'm just in such admiration of her because of the stoicism. She does what she should because she's a mum and she just loves that little boy to absolute pieces.

Andy Coulson: Rather like your mum.

Simon Weston: Yes. I see so many parallels. But for me there was always a light at the end of my tunnel, there was always a light because I was always going to get better, and after that shadow I knew, I wasn't going to die from what happened to me. Maybe other things, but you know, that's life. But for this little boy, I'm just so impressed by the whole scenario.

Andy Coulson: You talk about signposts there, Simon. Dare I say, I think you're one of one of our greatest signposts. I mentioned it in the intro, I think you've loomed large as a kind of inspiration in so many people's lives for a very, very long time. And just thank you for everything that you do.

Simon Weston: Well, thank you. I feel a bit flattered by that. I've just been fortunate.

Andy Coulson: Well, you've been unfortunate, and you turned that into just such a massive, positive, and over such a long time.

Simon Weston: What was it somebody once said? It’s the phoenix from the flame? I don't think I'll ever be as glamorous as a phoenix, but I'll take it.

Andy Coulson: It's been such a pleasure to meet you and to spend some time with you, so thank you for it.

Simon Weston: Cheers Andy, it's been a pleasure.