Hey, I'm Bruce Weinstein, and this is the podcast Cooking with Bruce and Mark.

And I'm Mark Skarbrough, and together with Bruce, we have written 36

and are writing the 37th cookbook over a course of almost 25 years.

We've published all those books with New York publishers, and we've

developed on our own almost 23 It's hard to even fathom it well, except

my waistline may tell you something.

Anyway, this is our food and cooking podcast about our

passion, food and cooking.

We've got a one minute cooking tip about tablescapes of all the crazy things.

We want to talk about how we like and dislike certain foods and the reasons

why, which are changing even as we speak.

Believe it or not, research is coming out.

And we want to tell you what's making us happy in food this week.

So let's get started.

Our one minute cooking tip.

Did you know you can rent your entire tablescape for a dinner party?

Uh, stop.

Okay, I'm going to stop you and say I can't believe you

used the word tablescape.

That is so gross.

Isn't that like that Sandra Lee semi homemade lady?

Well, but tablescapes, I mean, it's your plates, your silverware, your napkins.

I know what it is.

Of Well, maybe not everybody listening does and napkins, runners,

flowers, candlesticks, all of that makes up your tablescape.

And what happened to just set the table?

Well, what if you like to change things up?

You want to do something different.

You only have one set of dishes.

You don't have time to shop.

Only one set of dishes.

You're not gay.

Okay.

Do go on.

Let's say you don't even have the creativity to make a table gorgeous.

Not everyone is as talented as you are, Mark.

Um, it's true.

I do all the tables.

I do all of the decoration of the table and setting the

table for the dinner parties.

But Bruce is right.

You can, in fact, rent tablescapes and in fact, they show up and you just put

the dirty dishes in boxes or cartons.

And mail them back.

And they just disappear.

Take 'em back.

Literally mail them back.

So there were services that let you pick online the exact design you like.

Like what?

Service Table and teaspoon.com.

There's one called Hesia, H-E-S-T-I-A harlow.com.

Just Google.

Tablescape rental, and you'll find a whole bunch of them.

You pick the style you want.

They pile everything into boxes and ship them to you.

What kills me is you put everything dirty back in the box.

I know, doesn't it stink?

Not only that, doesn't that attract like rodents in the mail and all that?

Well, it's not my problem.

It's going back.

I guess that's it.

So now it's not NIMBY, NIMBY.

The whole world is NIMBY.

It's not cheap.

But it's cheap and I'm buying new dishes while laughing now.

Okay.

Yeah, right.

Um, if you buy new dishes for dinner party, you are definitely gay.

Definitely part of our tribe, but

these are great because you can get everything.

You can get all the place settings, the silverware, the napkins, the runners,

the candlesticks, the candle holders.

It's.

Kind of crazy.

Well, it's like, I guess,

a wedding rental

kind

of thing.

It is.

But most of them have a minimum of four people, so you can get four

settings and one runner and candles.

Wow.

Well, what do you know?

All right.

So, Rent Your Tablescapes.

Ugh, that word.

Rent Your Tablescapes next time from places like TableAndTeaspoon.

com.

We are not underwritten nor sponsored by any of these companies.

Uh, various websites and producers.

Before we get to the next segment of our podcast, which is all about

likes and dislikes of food, let me say that we do have a newsletter.

It comes out, I don't know, twice a month, uh, maybe even once a month.

It depends right now we're in book production, so there's no

newsletter forthcoming right at the moment, but you can get on our

mailing list on our website, Bruce.

And mark.

com or cooking with bruise and mark.

com.

You'll find it right there on the opening page.

If you drop your name and email there, it goes straight into a locked box.

It always sounds like Al Gore on the server.

I don't even let our mail.

Uh, mail list provider capture your email.

It cannot be sold and you can unsubscribe at any moment.

All right, on to the next segment of the podcast, that is

the likes and dislikes of food.

Research in this segment I felt vindicated my whole life.

I have not liked certain things.

And everyone always said, Oh, you're so picky and blah, blah, blah, blah.

But did you know that we are actually programmed to some extent

to like and dislike certain foods?

Okay, so we are, but let me back up and say that there was a time not

so long ago, in fact, in our food career, when all the research seemed

to be indicating that babies pick up environmental cues from their parents

about what to like and dislike.

And this still holds.

It's not that this has been contradicted.

It still does hold.

And you know, here's the thing.

Um, if you are feeding a baby, your baby, let's say, Oh, I hope

you're not feeding other babies.

Well, okay.

Well, anyway.

And so you've got spoon and let's say you have pureed brussel

sprouts, you know, out of the jar.

And I see, and you have that look on your face cause you

think, oh, this is disgusting.

The baby doesn't know it's disgusting or not.

And so what the baby does and what babies are great at doing is reading

cues, particularly on their mothers and somewhat on their father's faces.

And so the baby, Baby sees the fear.

It picks up the cues of that kind of thing, and the baby backs away from it.

And ultimately, these lead to likes and dislikes.

Once upon a time, this was the only way people thought

about food likes and dislikes.

But genetic research has changed so much

in the last 10 years.

It has.

At the University of Colorado School of Medicine, there is a whole study

going on to try and find genetic predispositions to certain foods.

They look at the human genome and they study people and see what

they like and don't like them.

What did the geneticist, her credit, her name is Joanne Cole.

There you go.

And so what her team has found is that some of the genes that have the strongest

effect on diet are taste receptors, especially bitter tasting things.

So you are built.

to taste things the way your parents were built to taste things.

Well, and I think the bitter thing is really crucial because of course, so many

toxic and poisonous substances are bitter.

But if you have a really, uh, pronounced bitter receptor or rejector

in your genetic code, for example, you're not going to like broccoli and

you're not going to like cauliflower.

Now let me say that Every one of these studies indicates that you

can learn to like these things.

So although you're predisposed, you can learn eventually to like these

things with behavioral training.

I'm still

vindicated.

Okay.

But the initial.

The fifth here is, let's say, cruciferous vegetables like cauliflower and broccoli.

Those are particularly bitter and they, uh, ring up certain genetic encoding

in you to want to stay away from it.

For example, I love broccoli and I love cauliflower and I even

loved broccoli as a little kid.

So clearly the genetic marker is not as pronounced on me as it is on some others.

Right.

Right.

And the team also found a very specific.

Olfactory gene connected to the smell of cheese alone.

Another one for the smell of fruit.

Another one just specific to tea.

Hey, wait,

I just have to think about this for a minute.

So they found a special olfactory gene connected to the smell of cheese.

And humans have not been making cheese for that long.

I mean, okay, let's say, I don't, I don't, I didn't do any

research on this, so I don't know.

But let's say it's been 4, 000 years.

Let's push it all the way back to Homer and the Odyssey.

And let's say people were making cheese then, but that's not a long

time for a gene to develop in sequence.

So that's wild that that gene would be there.

Maybe the people that had that associated with cheese,

maybe the people that had that gene all along are the ones that

developed cheese because they were actually looking for that smell.

And there's another one I found really interesting, a genetic variant that

explains your ability beta ionine.

It is a compound found in tobacco, and grapes, and spearmint, and tea, and wine.

And wine, too.

It is.

And having this gene variant may dictate whether you end up smoking,

or whether you end up drinking tea.

And, and, uh, let's just say I, I drink a cup of tea almost every

afternoon, a cup of hot tea.

I drink a cup of hot tea even in the day.

dead middle of summer, almost every afternoon.

And clearly I'm kind of genetically programmed to like it because

I didn't grow up with tea.

I mean, I did grow up with tea, but it was incredibly weak Lipton tea that my mother,

oh gosh, can I tell you this story?

So my mother would take the tea bags and she would put that in the tea.

And then, you know, she'd use one teabag for like two or three cups.

And then she would take the teabag and set it on a little saucer at the

side of the sink and let it dry out.

And the reason we did that is she was saving it for the missionaries.

Can you believe this?

And we would pack up all these dried up old tea bags and mail them off in

care packages to the missionaries.

And I always thought as a kid, I didn't have a calling as a missionary

because I didn't like weak tea.

So it must mean that I'm not meant to be.

to be called out.

They're working in the world.

Give them some fresh tea.

But so many things about smell are genetic.

There is a genetic component to smelling things.

We know that, like for instance, you know, when you eat

asparagus and your peace stinks.

Well, the funny thing is, I mean, when I eat asparagus, my

peace state, I eat asparagus.

My father died.

A long time ago, 40 years ago, so I decided to ask my mom, last

time we saw her, did dad's pee stink when he ate asparagus?

I mean, it seemed like a normal question to me.

Of course, that seems

totally normal.

Totally within the bounds of, of communication with your mother.

Do go on.

And she had no idea what I was talking about.

And I said, well, you know, like when you eat asparagus, doesn't your pee stink?

And she goes, I don't know what you're talking about.

So I always believed that some people's pee stank after

asparagus, and some didn't.

Turns out, Everybody's pee stinks after eating asparagus.

Right, right, right, right, right.

It's just that not everyone can smell it.

It's the genetic

marker.

You have to have the genetic marker to be able to smell it.

We just, we're shooting our next cookbook, our 37th cookbook right now,

and we just, I know this is so weird, we have the weirdest conversations,

but we just had this conversation with the And he was the same way.

He was like, what are you talking about?

Uh, I don't think so.

I don't, I've never noticed any other asparagus.

And we both said, Oh, you're lacking the genetic marker

that allows you to smell it.

It's a very odd thing.

In fact, I find it so offensive that I have actually said, I don't

want to eat any more asparagus.

And I still do, but I find it such an offensive smell that I

actually want to stay away from it.

So these have also shown that there may be biological processes.

underlying the liking for highly palatable foods.

And let me just say, we know this.

We know that you are genetically predisposed to want sugar.

It has to do with wanting your mother's milk and wanting the lactose in milk.

And so we know you're genetically predisposed toward the sweet.

But in fact, there may be more to it just that

MRI scans have found a correlation between the part of the brain

involved with pleasure processing and the genetic variation linked to

highly delicious palatable foods.

Right.

And they know this because low calorie and strong tasting foods correlated

with areas of the brain associated not with pleasure, but with taste.

Decision making.

Oh, so you gotta make the decision, oh, do I want to eat this bad tasting thing?

Oh, well, you know, if, do I, do I say this on a podcast, I guess?

Um, I'm a very decisive person and a very opinionated person.

You probably know that from this podcast, a very opinionated person.

And I also really like strong tasting foods, so maybe that's

connected genetically in some way.

I really despise, uh, kind of one.

Vapid foods without any taste.

That's why you don't like

Pinot Noir very much.

Uh, no, I, sorry wine industry, but I don't like Pinot Noir.

I like really heavy, big red wines.

I love a pois and stinky cheeses.

I love organ meat, of course.

All sorts from livers to spleens to long.

Yes, I've had longs and love longs.

So I clearly I'm connected to these things.

And Italian study to go on, got a genetic link connected to the flavor

of salt and the enjoyment of salt.

And in fact, researchers discovered a specific gene that encourages some people

to consume more salt than I must have

that gene.

Well, I must have it too.

Because I'm one of those people that will salt my food before

I even, before I even taste it.

Yeah, I know.

We're recording this, um, and we just went through, uh, uh, Passover Seder.

And the meal was delicious.

Did I salt everything on my plate before I even tasted it?

Yes, I did.

And that really tasted good.

really upset our host.

His wife does the same thing and that really upsets him too.

He's like, taste your food first.

No, I can't help it.

I just want more salt on everything.

We, we are in this photoshoot that, uh, I've mentioned already a couple times.

And part of what happened in this photoshoot is that we put out some, uh,

what were those, pita chips or something?

They were just bad.

box to store brand pita chips, and they were so salty and they weren't very

good tasting, but I couldn't stop eating them on set because they were so salty.

They were salty.

I would just

drive, driven right up

to it.

And the wheat thins were so sweet.

We opened a box of wheat thins to use in a shot.

Which I haven't had in a million years.

Those things taste like, Mark kept saying.

They tasted like lifesavers.

I

did.

You might as well have a lifesaver if you're going to eat a wheat then.

They were so sweet.

Well, first

ingredient was flour, second ingredient was sugar.

Yeah,

and I am much more attracted to salt than I am to sugar, so I

think that this is all part of it.

I made some, uh, vegan chocolate chip cookies a couple weeks ago, and they were

from Phil Cory's book, A New Way to Bake.

We had Phil Cory on the podcast, and these, uh, chocolate

chip cookies are so good.

are made with Maldon salt, sprinkled over the top of them.

They're vegan cookies and they're made with Maldon salt.

They were a little, and I know the salt just knocked me out.

So I

love salty things.

I love salty granola.

I love salty cookie.

I love salty

granola.

So in the end, we're influenced from early on by our parents, but there

is a genetic component to this and.

If both your parents hated artichokes, there's a good chance you will too, and it

may be because they themselves projected that dislike of artichokes onto you.

It may also because, be because they have genetic markers that preclude

them from liking cruciferous and bitter vegetables, and they have now

passed that genetic marker onto you.

There are other reasons.

actual, in fact, studies, as we've indicated here, that say that

taste is partly, uh, genetic.

But we should also say that every researcher is very quick

to say that in most cases, dislikes can be learned together.

To be overcome, which is really interesting.

And I just just say before we end this, uh, this was my case with cilantro.

I hated cilantro for years when I met Bruce 27 years ago.

I absolutely despised cilantro.

I know the Texas boy.

How could you hate cilantro since it's on like everything

Tex Mex and I didn't like it.

And over the years I've come to like it.

I still wouldn't eat it.

a cilantro sauce.

I still think I would steer clear of like, I've seen recipes for cilantro

pesto, where it's just all cilantro.

And I think to myself, Oh, God, I'd rather glass than eat that.

But, but I like cilantro in things.

And I like cilantro added to things now.

So that clearly has been a way that I've taught myself to like something.

And when Mark and I first met, I did not eat fish of any kind.

In fact, what was your dictum?

My identity was I will not eat anything that lived in water.

You did.

Period.

It didn't matter.

No frogs.

That means frogs are out.

Turtles are out.

Fresh water, salt water, it didn't matter.

Wouldn't eat goldfish.

I wouldn't eat guppies.

I probably wouldn't eat goldfish either.

But go on.

And I wouldn't eat tuna.

I wouldn't eat anything.

And now I love fish, and I have learned to like it.

Remember when we went to that restaurant in New York City, that Japanese

restaurant, and we were served the bowl with the little fish in it?

And you had to drink the fish.

And it was a live fish.

Swimming around in this bowl, and it was salt ish water, wasn't it?

It's terribly salty water, but it's salt ish water.

And this little fish was swimming around in it.

And the deal was you just picked up the bowl and downed it with

the fish I couldn't do it.

Yeah, and it was live and swimming around.

I wouldn't do

that.

It

was so weird.

It felt so

weird

and Yeah.

And kind of crazy, but see, all of that is within my wheelhouse, but cilantro

has always been without my wheelhouse.

And I'm also, again, attracted to really strong tastes.

Like, for example, if I never, oh gosh, the wine industry is going to hate us.

No, we're never going to be sponsored by the wine industry.

But if I never drank a glass of white wine.

wine for the rest of my life.

I would miss it.

I would.

I would miss red wine.

I would miss a good white burgundy.

Yeah, I would.

I would miss champagne.

Well, champagne, I don't care.

I know champagne is white wine, but I don't count that in the category.

Champagne is its own thing and I love champagne, but most white wine

I am completely indifferent to.

But red wine, that to me is fabulous because again, I'm

driven toward much bigger tastes.

So there is probably a genetic factor involved before we get to the final

segment of this podcast would be great if you could rate this podcast,

give it five stars, dare I ask.

And if you could write a review, even just great podcast, that would be terrific.

We are unsupported and have chosen to stay that way over the years, So

the way you could help us and support us is simply by rating and even

writing a review of this podcast.

That would help a great deal.

Okay, off to segment three, the traditional end of our podcast, what's

making us happy in food this week.

And I'm going to start, I never start.

I always let you go first.

I'm going to say that we had friends for dinner a couple of weeks ago and

Bruce had been teaching a knitting workshop in Needham, Massachusetts.

So he was kind of, uh, overwhelmed by that weekend.

Knitting Workshop.

Bruce does knit, in case you don't know, and has published knitting books, in

case you don't know, and, uh, he was doing this, so I made dinner, and, uh,

one of our friends came from New York City, and she brought this box of these

spectacular vegan chocolates, and they were made with, uh, marzipan, marzipan

centers.

But the marzipan was so creamy that they acted like chocolate.

Chocolate creams and they were flavored like chocolate.

Some were

just plain almond, some were chocolate coconut, some were coffee,

some were raspberry, they were

delicious.

And they were beautiful in the box.

Like the ones that were raspberry were in a diagonal across the box and there

was this little sprinkling of raspberry powder on a diagonal line across the box.

They were beautiful and they just tasted really good.

Yes.

Did I know that they were not creams?

Yes.

Yes.

But they were vegan and that made it just so incredible on so many levels.

What's making me happy is kasha varnishkis.

Oh, I don't get them very often.

If you don't know what that is, kasha is toasted buckwheat.

And to make kasha varnishkis, which is a good Jewish food, you

fry onions and chicken fat or schmaltz till they're golden brown.

You add the kasha.

You mix it up.

You add bowtie pasta and you bake it up.

So the top of them are crunchy and a little dried out and the

bottom are soft and greasy.

Oh, Kasha Varnishkas.

They're a good thing.

I think that Kasha Varnishkas are one of those things.

I love them, but I think they are connected to a childhood memory.

I mean, people do have great memories of food from childhood and connect.

to it, and I think that's one of those things that is probably for most people

a childhood memory because I don't think most people like toasted buckwheat,

but I do because I like big taste.

And if you don't know, toasted buckwheat is a big flavor.

It is.

I

remember in Seinfeld when they talked about George Costanza's father and

then he had this aroma that was like a potpourri of dandruff and kasha.

There you go.

Very nice.

And your mother does not like kasha.

My mother loves

Buckwheat, but she doesn't like when you toast it and turn it into kasha.

Yeah, because it is

a big, bitter, strong, herbaceous flavor.

She

claims there was a bad childhood memory

about kasha.

Yeah, see, and so this again, this speaks to genetic, environmental memories,

the stuff from your hippocampus.

What you like and don't like is a complicated soup of

problems inside of your biology.

It is.

That's our podcast for this week.

Thanks for being along on this journey with us.

We certainly appreciate your spending time with us.

And every week we tell you what's making us happy in food.

So tell us what's making you happy in food this week at our Facebook

group, cooking with some Mark.

And if they're really great things that are making you happy, we're

going to talk about them here on cooking with Bruce and Mark.