But at the same token, the police force that actually the, the state troopers are the ones who had jurisdiction. Now they're 22 miles away and we call at like one oh six and they don't get dispatched till one 11. They should have already been here in that time period. And then they come in 22 miles away. So only one officer came, and then even 10 minutes after that, the other one come about 1 31. So. We were holding the guy down from 105 till they get outside at 131. By the time they got in here, it was even more time.

We'll discuss race and how it plays a factor and how we didn't even talk about this topic because we were afraid.

A Black Executive Perspective.

Welcome to a Black Executive Perspective podcast, a safe space where we discuss all matters related to race, especially race in corporate America. I'm your host, Tony Tidbit.

And I'm your co host, Chris P. Reed.

Thanks, Chris. Glad you're here, my brother. So, first, I want to give a shout out to the University of New Haven, a radio station that's allowing us to use their podcast studio, station WNHU. 88. 7 on the Richter dial. Let's give them some fabulous love for hosting a Black Executive Perspective podcast. So thank you, 88. 7.

Also, I'd like to shout out CodeM Magazine, our partner, whose mission is saving the Black family by first saving the Black man. Check them out at CodeMMagazine. com. That's two Ms. CodeMMagazine. com.

Exactly. Check them out. And so today. We're going to explore the chilling incident at Jesus Dwelling Place Church in North Braddock, Pennsylvania, where a gunman, believe it or not, failed attempt to shoot the pastor during service was averted by a quick thinking church member. Despite the gun malfunctioning and the immediate intervention by the church members, The delayed police response and absence of an ambulance spotlights urgent questions about emergency services in the community. Joining us today, Rev. Glenn Germany, will discuss the details of this near tragic day, the commendable bravery displayed by their church members, and what it means for public safety and divine intervention. Stay tuned. Pastor Glenn Germany, welcome to a Black Executive Perspective, my brother.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Tony. I appreciate you and Chris having me on your show today.

Buddy, number one, thank God that you're here. Okay, because I can imagine we're going to dive into it, but we're just blessed that you're here. You're looking good. And you know, you're going to share exactly what happened. So look, are you ready to talk about it, my brother? Yeah.

Yes, I am. I'm ready. All right.

Let's talk about it.

So I know that, you know, Tony said near tragic, but I consider it to be a tragic day because of the residue of what happened. But before that day, give me a little information about your church, Jesus's Dwelling Place Church and about the people and the principal foundings that you guys, uh, embark upon.

Yes. Um, Jesus dwell in place. We're actually a no denomination church, and we clarify no denomination, you know, because even today, non denomination has become a denomination. And so we want to clarify that, you know, if someone believe in the Lord Jesus as their Lord and Savior, you know, they're our brother and sister in the faith, all the rest of the doctrine will work out as we study the Bible together. But, you know, we're in the midst of a, uh, Mint below poor community. You know, I don't like considering them that way, but the truth is the truth. You know, a lot of people come to our churches on fixed incomes of that nature, you know, but all the more so we need to power a GOD here. But our, you know, our church doors are always open to everyone and anyone, you know, we're not a respecter of persons at all. And we're just in a community that needs us and we're just trying to do a good work.

That is awesome, my friend. And so tell us about the spirit in the church, right? You know, non denominant. What'd you say? Say that again. No denomination, right? Which I love, right? It's just, it's spirit filled, God fearing, you know, whoever believes in Jesus Christ shows up and has a chance to worship and fellowship. So tell us a little bit about the people who show up and their love for their community, their church, and more importantly, God.

Yes, we have all ages showing up, you know, and it's really a marvel of just, you know, the people who we get from the community coming out. And, you know, we do work in the community. So, you know, people do know we here, we do book bag giveaway, we do health fairs, we do, um, domestic violence. We're trying to work on a mental health piece as well. You know, and we're getting a good aspect of people coming out and joining us. We're a small congregation, but with the limited resources that we have, we do a great work.

How long has your church been in this community, Pastor?

We've been in the community for 14 years. We actually received the church from a Methodist church that was here before us.

So, Pastor Glenn, tell us what a regular service looks like. What do you guys, what does everybody do when they do come to church? Talk to us a little bit about the service.

Yes, um, our service doors was open a lot more before COVID. COVID really slowed us down a lot as it did a lot of churches. But, you know, we still try to have our church doors open three times a week. We have three services that we actually offer to the community. And our service, you know, our service is kind of different than other services. I want it that way. I like it that way. And what I mean by that is that it's just not a monologue where we don't just come in and it's like a business where we just get people in, rush them out, get them in, rush them out. You know, it's more so, no, let us really relate to the people. Let us hear their needs, you know, doing our service. We open up with praise and worship. After praise and worship, we have a testimony time to let people say how God has blessed them and what's going on in their lives. After that, you know, we pray for the children that's sick and shedding. And then I bring the message. Now, the interesting thing about when I bring the message is that you're allowed to stop me when I'm preaching. Now, I know that's not heard of in other churches, you know, don't stop the pastor once he's in his message. But I believe that church is the highest aspect of education. I believe that it is a place where you should come to and learn like a education institution where you have the right if you don't under, I mean, it's just amazing to me and I'll slow down a little bit. But what I mean by that is that you I'm supposed to be one who is a watchman for the people, an overseer. I'm supposed to be explaining to you things that you need for life. Now, if I'm up here preaching, and you get lost, and you can't stop me, and you can't say, I'm sorry, can you explain that to me? Can you go back over that? Can you, you know, can you go in more detail? You know, it's like, you're gonna leave here. And you didn't get what I was supposed to be giving you. I mean, that just blows my mind of how, you know, churches don't really care. Rather than that, the people here, you know, it's like, go get the tape. Now ask me a question. Let me explain it. Let me go back over it because it's vital for your life. I'm up here teaching you things that you need. And so, At our church, you're allowed to stop me in the midst of a sermon and ask me, can you repeat that? Can you go back over that? Can you explain that to me in more detail? Because it's really about you getting the word and you learning the word.

Let me say this. So as a teacher, preacher, pastor, prophet, you know, it seems like you have an all inviting, all encompassing, all inclusive type of church. And I know that maybe that may be what led to, you know, or what, uh, people might accuse as a contribution. To this incident because you had a stranger, so to speak, come in your miss. But it seems like that's what you wanna bring people in. You wanna bring people to the Lord. So you're always gonna continue to welcome that type of, uh, open armed invite, uh, invitation to folks to come in and hear what you have to say and engage with you.

Yes, if this is a place, a house of healing, and people are supposed to come in and get healed, you don't see no hospitals, you know, wondering who's coming in, stopping, because it's a place of healing. And so this is also a place of healing. Although we have to be safe, don't, don't get me wrong, and I want my parishioners to feel safe, but at the same token, it has to be Welcoming an open door policy,

and I can imagine you've had a lot of people that you didn't know who may have just moved to the community or, you know, felt the spirit that they they're not a church goer and they all of a sudden says, you know what? I want to go in church and fellowship and learn more about God Jesus Christ. So this wasn't unusual to have somebody that you didn't know coming to your church. Is that correct?

No, it's not unusual. And for, you know, uh, we actually do live music here and we're a small church, but we have been in music, me and my brother for over 30, 40 years. We've been in music for that long, you know, and so. We have a sound system that's really amazing and we make sure it's crisp and we play live instruments, you know, bass player, drum, keyboard, you know, with singers. So, therefore, people do hear our music in the community and sometimes people just look in just to listen to the live music and then go back out. So, it's not unusual for us to have people peep in and leave out at all.

Got it, got it. So, speaking of that, tell us about the day. When this person that walked in, um, like any other day, right? Somebody you didn't know. So talk to us, tell us where you were in, in, uh, from a service standpoint and then what happened?

Well, it was really a blessing. And, you know, um, let me say it like this at the time when I first recognized him, cause I was running late for church. All right. It was doing praise and worship. He came in, he went out, he came in, he went out. All right, and that was doing praise and worship, and it wasn't alarming because some people don't like praise and worship, and they only like to wait for the word, and so at that point, it wasn't alarming to me, and then my brother had told me a night before that he had spoke to some young man, and he told me he was going to be, that the young man was going to be there, so I was expecting someone of his age to be there, you know, and then when I started to bring the word, and I stood up to bring the word, he was in the back, and as I Prayed in so I could, uh, before I start preaching, he moved up to the front of the church. It wasn't alarming because the simple fact that, you know, even when I looked at him, he gave me a smile, you know, so nothing was really alarming at all, you know, or made me uncomfortable. It was just a regular service. But the blessed part about it, I'll say is that we actually stayed in praise and worship that day. for 45 minutes longer than what we really used to stay in. At the time that I stood up to give the message, service was supposed to be over.

Wow. Wow. You know, let's, we have a clip from that timeframe, right? So you guys are having praise and worship. Um, and it's funny you said it was, it was a little longer session this time, right? 45 minutes. out of character. Uh, guys having a good time. You must, the spirit must be filling everybody for you to keep praise and worship going on that long, right? We don't need a word right now. Let's just, let's just glorify God. Let's sing. Let's have a good time. Your brother said, Hey, some new person is going to come tomorrow. So you expect it, a young person, not a big deal. You know, if you had that before person sitting, At the back of the pew, then slowly start moving up. So you're thinking, you know, the spirit is moving, right? The praise and worship is working right? People, you know, come in with their arms folded and the next thing you know, they started hearing the, the, the, the praises of God. And the next thing you know, they start becoming loose, right? So I would imagine that's what you were thinking. So let's play the clip in terms of what happened at that moment.

And Godly chose

Jesus, Jesus. Oh! Give me a chance! OK OK OK I'm pleading! I'm pleading! I'm pleading! I'm pleading!

So Pastor Glenn Explain to, because obviously we have the video, but this is just the audio portion, explain to everybody what, what was that? Well, I heard Jesus. So Jesus never stopped being said, which is, which is great. Right. But tell us what was happening at that timeframe. So the audience knows.

Yes. At that time, like I said, I had just prayed in. He was in the back of the church. I had prayed in and he moved up to the front. He was on my left corner, you know, and I looked over there cause I like to read the audience. I like to, you know, see where they are and see, you know, their comfortable level. And so when I looked at him, he smiled at me and then I started to look at the rest of the congregation. And as he, as he, he got up and I seen him stand up. And I'm thinking that he's going, my brother is in the video. You will see my brother is to the right of me because I have a reader reading while I'm preaching. And so I'm thinking that he's going to, you know, the service was longer than it was supposed to be. I'm thinking he's going to tell my brother, Hey, I wanted to stay, but I have to go, you know, cause you know, y'all was pretty long today. And so I'm thinking that he's going to actually tell my brother, you know, go over there and speak with my brother. But once he got to the middle of the pulpit, you know, where I preach from. You know, I, you know, I took my eyes off him once he stood up the next time I seen him on it and really see him as much as I just see the barrel of the gun staring at me. And so at that point, you know, I tell everybody they'd be like, ask me this question, like, what were you thinking? I'd be wanting to say, What do you think? I was thinking. I mean, really, you know, a gun, you're staring at a gun. It's get out the way right out the way. Ain't no superman. Ain't no trying to talk nobody down. I'm moving out his way. I'm trying to get cover, you know, and then I'll take my chances from there, you know, and so At that point, I didn't hear no gunfire, and so now, uh, I look back to see, you know, what's going on, and I see my deacon have him, so now I'm like, oh, go help. And at that point, I went and helped, we wrestled the gun from him, and then I went from one point of trying to protect the congregation from him, to now I'm trying to protect him from the congregation.

Let me ask you this cause that's, that's very interesting. And people talk about how time slows down. And so for you, I've seen the video and I know, you know, it's a matter of 15, 16 seconds. Like it was boom, boom, boom. It was, it was so much action in my perspective. But from your perspective, now that you've got a chance to, I don't know if you've seen the video. And, you know, if you okay, when you look back at it, did it seem that immediate or did it seem slow motion in real time? Because your motion from diving got the way to jumping back into the fray was amazing to me. I was like, man, this dude was just jumping to the left and now he's helping his brother, you know, or his, uh, his, uh, deacon. Subdue this guy. And like you said, trying to protect the congregation from him. How did that elapse in your mind? Was it slow motion? Was it faster than you know, next thing you know, you blinked and it was over. How

did that work for you? Yeah, be honest with you. It wasn't no thinking. It was like just natural reactions at that point, to be honest with you. I had no time to really consider what was going on. Think, do I want to help? Not want to help. It was just natural reactions. And, you know, I tell people all the time and it's nothing that, you know, I'm proud of, but I had a past before. You understand what I'm saying? In my past, it I've been to altercation such as that plenty of times. Okay. So it was just training setting. I mean, you know, you've been there before and at that point it's like, we gonna fight for life. I, I don't know how many bullets he have in a gun. I don't know what his intentions is, but we gonna get that gun off. He, that's for sure. You jumped into fight Air buddy.

I gotta say he jumped in the fight. Air flight, Tony. You know what I mean? You got to fight to

say, I mean, when you said you had done stuff before, I'm like, well, you Superman, because you dove, I mean, instantaneously. Right. So, so, but let's back up a little bit because, uh, and Chris spoke to it about Deacon Clarence McAllister, right? Talk a little bit about him because he dove over, I believe a pew or, or something that was up there. He dove. over that on top of him and subdued him, uh, which then you were able to come and help. So talk a little bit about Deacon McAllister,

you know, him and his wife. And I got to put his wife in any time I talk about him. I got to add her in there. They are really pillars to our church. She is really. I mean, she's the motor that moves the engine, you know, and him, he is a wonderful, wonderful person. And the crazy thing about it is that, you know, uh, a week ago before this incident happened, I'm saying a week before the incident, I spoke with my wife after service along with my brother, who is the senior pastor of the church. I spoke to them. I said, look, yeah, yeah. They've been here with us. They've been faithful to us. They've been committed. They always give they give themselves anything you need done at the church. They are the ones I was like, we got to figure out some way of honoring them, you know, and so for it to be him, the one who actually jumped over the rail and came and that's just who he is. There was one time, long story short, my car broke down, I'm downtown, coming off the, um, like the little freeway, but I'm in the middle of traffic, I call him, this guy comes down, change my tire in the middle of the street, put me on a new tire, fix the flat, get me on my way, and be like, just go pastor, get out of here, you know, didn't want nothing, didn't ask for nothing, just get out of here pastor, you know, but that's the type of person he is. Always helping people and for him to do that. It didn't amaze me at all because that's just the type of person he is He he'll give his life for you. I mean, he don't you know He just is a given person and you know He'd give up himself and he even showed he'll give his life if I have to be

it's good to have good people Now, what's the sister name so we can make sure we get her in the in the byline Mary McCallister, Mary McCallister, his name is Clarence

McCallister, her name is Mary, and she is a beautiful, wonderful sister.

God bless them both. God bless them both. And so, when that's going on, and he jumped to action, I mean, obviously, I would love to know his mind state too, and I'm sure you guys have spoken, but he jumped to action, he comes over the altar, you know, with the guy. Immediately you went from, like I said, uh, flight to fight and you go back into the fight with him. What's going on in your mind? Because it's a lot of things that I've seen interviews where you said you were speaking to the guy and things like that. So, the interaction at that point in time, what's the words? What's the things that we may not have picked up on the audio? What's going on after you realize, okay. Now the gun is not an immediate danger anymore to me. What's the next steps in your mind?

I'm just going to back up to the altercation a little bit. If the gun was immediate danger to me all the way until I got to the gun, angle that I take the gun was still pointing at me. And so I was like, Whoa, let me take an angle that he can't still shoot me. So my angle, you know, first day I was mic'd up and you'll see me fix my mic, kind of, kind of loosen me up, you know what I'm saying? Then I'm like coming at an angle to where I'm out of harm's way. But the thing that amazed me the most, little words were spoken between me and him. But the whole time we were communicating while we were getting the gun from him. And that was the most amazing part to me of the communication that me and him had while we were getting the gun from the gentleman. You know, it was like, you know, even you'll hear us at the end, even be more vocally. But while we were, you know, it was like, I see you got his hands. I got his hands now. Release his hands. And then he went for the gun because he knew I got his hands now, but we were in communication the whole time. And that part was the only thing that really like slowed down. And it's like, wow, we were really communicating with each other, getting this out of this guy's hands.

Right. What, what was the gunman? Did he say anything? Was he saying stop? Or I'm sorry. Or, you know, what was his communication?

Yes. And like brother Clarence didn't see The gunman, because he's the cameraman, he didn't see the gunman until the gun until in through the camera. That's when he seen the gunman when it was pointing at me. Once we got him down. Now, you know, if you see the guy kind of quit once once we had him and got him down, it was like no struggle. But the communication is I had at least 12 or 15, like, well, really, it was like 20 minutes to almost totally of that I had to yeah. While I was holding him down, you know, waiting for the police to get here and me and him had a conversation and he was just as normal talking to me like me and you're talking right now, you know, it wasn't nothing hostile, you know, it was like, I asked him, wow, what made you do something like that? What was happening? What's going on? You know, and he just, you know, he told me his name, where he from, where he lived at before, how long he'd been in Pittsburgh, you know, I mean, we're, we're talking, you know, and he tells me he's sorry, you know, and he said, I don't know why I did it. I don't know. He just said, you know, something told me come in here and kill the pastor. And I followed out what it told me, you know, and he told me this twice, but at the time, you know, The one that get me the most is when I had a chance to talk to him when he was in the car and I walked up to him and he spoke to me like, you know, like man was buddies. You know how you playing one on one basketball with your buddy and you say something like, Oh man, you got out today. But he told me like this. He said, yo, bro, you ducked the taco today. And I'm like, duck taco. But what he was saying was, yo, bro, I was shooting at your head and you ducked that thing. But it was just this calm, calm as man was speaking.

Let me ask you this because you obviously serious about this preaching thing because you was straight and preacher boat at this point in time. Was there ever any anger or any frustration, aggravation or rage that kicked in that this man was just about to take your life because it seemed like you didn't even step into that mindset behind the pulpit. Like, how did you avoid all of that type of? I can't believe this dude tried to come at me, especially with your past. Like you said, okay. You seem to be straight preacher guy the whole time. How did you keep that type of poise?

I mean, it's, you know, a lot of times it's what you put in you, you know, the thing is I tell people all the time, you know, it just wasn't an event that just happened. God's been prepping me prepping my church prepping us all for this incident. We were in the book of Peter and we were learning about when various trials come your way, you know, not taking them personal understanding the truth of, you know, they're there to build you up, you know, and I didn't do it because I knew I was on videotape or anything like that. I just was like. I understand, you know, when I looked at him and I seen like, I can't be mad at this guy, you know what I'm saying? When I see he's not all here, you know, it's one thing is somebody planned it out, plotted, thought about it, you know, he just did it off the spur of the moment. He was dealing with something in his mind. I didn't know all this at the time, but when I looked at him, I was like, But man, I hear you. I love you. I'm not angry with you. I'm not upset with you. I forgive you. You know, I just wanted to let him know, you know, that I really care about him. That somebody care about him, you know, but no, it just ain't in me no more, I guess, to be honest with you. And I just thank God for that, that, you know, the love of God is just in me, but he's just an instant. I tell everybody y'all just seen that on tape, but you are who you are, you know, and anybody who knows me, they know me as such. You know, you will not get, you can ask a thousand people about me, you're going to get the same report for all thousand people.

That's what's up. And I know you, I know you're going to go to the, to the aftermath of this, Tony, but, but my question is, when did you realize that it was on tape? Like, I'm sure during the moment, you're not even thinking about that dang tape. You're not thinking about it being recorded. When did it hit your mind that, oh my gosh, this is all like, people are witnessing it. There's a record of this situation. When did that hit you?

Well, the tape hit me when I seen my people getting angry. I seen them getting angry. So the first time I get the recorder off, because I don't know what they're going to do. And now I got to protect him. And at the same token, make sure that, you know, they stay. And I didn't want none of their actions to be caught on tape of them doing anything contrary. I was comfortable. I just didn't want my people to be caught on tape out of character. Bless you.

You know, I got to say this. I want to try it. Cause you said something a few minutes ago that we're going to dive into, but I just got to say this right at the end of the day, you know, people come to church. They learn about the word of God. They learn about, you know, turning the other cheek. They learn about dealing with adversity. They learn about all the things. That God wants us to do when we face adversity, when things don't go our way, right? And here was a prime example. You guys are in the middle of praise and worship, you're having a good time, and then all of a sudden this incident happens. And then, based on that, you saw Not only yourself, but your, your flock jump to action and actually, uh, epitomize at that moment what you've been teaching them for the longest, right? So how do you, just tell us real quickly, how did, does that make you feel proud? How does that make you feel about your congregation?

I was really proud of him. You know, some of them was praying for him, you know, at that point. And that's where you even hear Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, you know, and in a small clip that we're going to show even later, you know, I had told them one, one to come and pray, I'm like, you're going to pray, move over there and pray. But let me finish talking to him. I don't want nothing to be disturbed, but I told them in the next service, I was proud of them and they passed the test.

That is awesome. My friend. Now talking about passing the test, you said something a minute ago and we just got finished talking about how. Out of the blue, the situation happened, you guys wasn't expected, rose to the occasion, you know, Deacon McAllister, you know, hero, him and his wife, you, Sudhu, the congregation, it could have been, it could have, to your point, went a whole other way, but everybody held their cool. They did what they need to do, but you said it took 20 minutes for the police to show up. That doesn't make, so talk to us a little bit about that.

Yeah, that part, you know, that was like, wow, you know, but it was a lot of stuff going on that day. Let me just say this here, all glory be unto God, because the simple fact that The way everything was and for that incident to happen, everything turned out the way it did, I thank God. It was un excusable for that to occur. They were in the mission, our police, now this is afterwards where I get the chance to investigate why. They were in the mission, uh, or in the middle of transitioning to a unified police operation here in our area because there's a bunch of small bureaus here together and they decided to make one police force to cover them all. But that Sunday. That police force wasn't formed yet. It was supposed to be starting the next week. Now, how you leave something unintended for a whole day like that in an area like this blows my mind, but that was a choice that they decided to make. And so the police officers who they call now, another thing I would say is that we called an active shooter. All right. And so that part really has me upset as well, that we called an active shooter. I don't care about what jurisdiction I don't care about, you know, Um, anything because people's life is on the line. At that point, I believe the nearest police station. I understand that they have to be careful because they could be sued to. But when you're talking about active shooter, there's a police state of Pittsburgh City limits is only two minutes away from my church. They could have came a lot faster than a Turtle Creek police that came. And when they got here, only one officer came. So he got here. in like, you know, 15 minutes after him. Now I need to say the call had to go through. So I'm holding them all weather calling and we got time stamps of, you know, at the time when my wife, who was the last person to call, who even called two minutes after they call to the time the police got here. You, we, it was 15 minutes easily, but I still had to hold him prior minutes before they can even get the call through, you know, we did things wrong herself, which comes with awareness, learning that in situations like that, only one person called too many calls, they get overloaded with calls. One person called explain the situation. It will help save a little bit of time. But at the same token, the police force that actually did the state troopers are the ones who had jurisdiction. Now they're 22 miles away and we call at like 1:06 and they don't get dispatched to 1:11. They should have already been here in that time period. And then they come in 22 miles away. So only one officer came and then even 10 minutes after that, the other one come about 1:31. So we were holding the guy down from 1:05 till they get outside at 1:31. By the time they got in here, it was even more time.

So. So when you say the other one came, you mean the other fire department? Ambulance, SWAT. The other one came, the other one,

the police officer,

the other, there, there may be total officers that came to the scene with maybe four officers. Now, once the one got here and we got him in the car, maybe he call and say everything is, you know, uh, different, but I don't know. But, you know, the sad part is we call an active shooter. Didn't know. Amlan's come. No fire. Um, truck come. Nothing. One officer came and me and that one officer and we got footage of it that they didn't see. It was on a video. You know, someone filmed on a video phone. One officer came, me and that one officer. We got Walk the guy out to the officer's car ten minutes later. That's why I have time to talk to him. Is that that's when the other police officers get here. Now only like three more officers came.

Let's back up. Let me say this

though, Tony. Let me say this. Go ahead. I'm sorry. I'm so sorry. Buddy,

this is Woo!

So first of all, first of all, Pastor Glenn, I want to give you some grace in the fact that you said maybe we didn't do everything right. You're not supposed to be learning, educated on all of the protocols in an emergency. Like dang, you did so much right. Don't put that on you, bro. Don't put that on your heart. You did what you needed to. You called the authorities. The authorities are supposed to be authoritative at that point in time and come and save you. You had already did all the saving you needed to do that day. They need to come in, you know, with the cavalry and save you or at least secure the scene and the situation. It is a tragedy. When we talk about tragedy, that seems to unfortunately be the greatest tragedy in all of this. Is that you didn't get no support from the people that are there to protect the server serving protect you guys and that's the confusion. That's the frustration. It's interesting that there is more emotion for you from a negative perspective in that. Then it wasn't a man that tried to kill you, kill you,

buddy. I mean, think about it for a second. And again, maybe it's me. I never, you know, you learn as a kid, call 9 1 1, the instructions wasn't, well, don't call if somebody else calls, okay? At the end of the day, people call 9 1 1 about situ they get multiple calls, which they should get, right? About a circ a situation. So it has nothing to do with, oh, maybe we should, uh, we called too much. No, it's an active shooter. You're supposed to call, multiple people supposed to call. That's not that. I'll be honest with you, to Chris's point, that has nothing, you guys have no accountability on that. That is the police force, that's the 9 1 1 operator, that's, that's them, okay? Number two, 20 minutes, and, and, and look, definitely want to praise God. We want to, you know, praise you guys for what you did to defuse the situation. But this could have turned out, I mean, think about it, what if he got some shots off, somebody could have died and only one officer comes in an active shooting. So did you think about, and again, we can always, you know, uh, uh, uh, play Monday morning quarterback, but did you think about what could have happened and by the police not showing up?

Yes, I actually, you know, that runs through my mind a lot. And I actually, you know, there are things, you know, I'm still challenging the day and I know I can't, I'm not allowed to do this, you know, because I don't want to get arrested for it. But I told myself one day I just want to call the police on a sunday and call active shooter and see if they really made adjustments. You know what I'm saying? Because this area need police presence and you know, I know and I hear y'all telling me that y'all making adjustments and I hear y'all saying It was unexcusable. But what true evidence do I have that y'all made adjustments? And the only test is to really just say, okay, let's just call Actors Shooter and see what happens this time and see if they really made adjustments. But I know I can't do that, but truly that is in my heart.

Let me ask you this though, and maybe you know this or maybe you don't. Talk a little bit about the community. What's the response time for the police in any situation? Do you know that at all?

They said that they would like the response time to be four minutes in any other part of the city. It would have been four minutes, you know, and like I'm saying, when you call active shooter, the city limits of Pittsburgh is not that far from us. It's just that when you deal with the other, you know, other communities, they have police presence. We don't have police presence here. At all in our, in our neighborhood, it needs to be when you're dealing with a neighborhood and it's not, don't get me wrong. It's not like a all out war neighborhood, but still you need police presence in the central of it. So then at any given time they can disperse in wherever part of the area they have to be. But we, you know, we just don't have that.

Let me ask you a question real quick. Um, is this the first instance of a place like yours, a place of worship? That has become under attack. And so they just didn't have a protocol in place. They didn't know how to respond. I mean, they just didn't have the wherewithal to do it. Um, or, oh, it's not. Oh, oh, okay. Wow.

So tell us about that. Tell us about that. They're

inexcusable.

We're 10 minutes from the tree of life. Okay. I don't know if you heard of the tree of life incident that. We're 10 minutes from the Jewish synagogue, where 11 people died. We're 10 minutes from there. So they should have a protocol in place. That happened a couple years ago. 10 people, 11 people died. They even coming out and actually, you know, comforting us as well. But we're 10 minutes from there. So they had no excuse for not having a protocol in place, none, especially as big as the, uh, Tree of Life situation went.

So, so how is, based on all the things that have happened, um, from the shooter, you guys wrestling to the ground, the congregation, obviously praying over him, loving him, the lack of, um, emergency services. From a mental standpoint, how, how are you and your church members doing?

We're pulling through, you know, it's a process. And a lot of times, you know, as pastors, we take things lightly. And I thank God that he removed some of my defenses. And what I mean by that is that, God can empower me and let me overcome everything, give me wisdom, understanding, open my understanding, and it just empowers you to be a more than a conqueror, but some of the time he lets down my defenses so I can really understand the comfort that others need and I can understand, you know, trauma. People deal with it differently. And even myself, I'm learning every day of how it's, you know, yeah. The effects that I'm getting like, I'm like wanting to go like, okay, you know, I've been here before, done this before. And so I should be okay. It's just crazy. You know, in my younger age, it wouldn't affect me the way it does now that it affects me. I'm, I'm actually really suffering myself, you know, from this incident and small ways. And every day I'm seeing it. more ways that it's affected me. The first way it hit me was the initial event didn't hit me at all. I was comfortable, but then I had to take my daughter who was here with me, who's 14. She's seen it. And this is where, this is, this is, this is where it always. Get me at and I always go into tears because

it's okay. My brother,

I'm dealing with it in a, in a, in a secondary aspect, just watching my daughter have to process it. That was the part that, you know, I couldn't take. And then my older daughter, she called me and to watch her break down every time I think about every time I think about and watching them break down. It just, I have no power over. It breaks me every single time. Every interview, every conversation about it.

Let me, let me say this pastor because. I think the toughest part is something that you and your people need healing and, and, and support and assistance on is that you guys are forced. Cause you said the next Sunday, you was back up there. Y'all going back to the scene of the crime. I mean, think about how much mental anguish it is to go back to the scene of the crime, to fulfill the task that the Lord has for you. It wasn't a situation where you could just. Go somewhere else and start up another church and forget all that. You got to go back and somewhat relive that every Sunday, every three, I'm sorry, three times a week. What'd you say? Three times a week and keep the mission. On task, right? Keep the mission of building the kingdom on task. How difficult is that for you? Mentally? I know you got family, your daughter, your brother, your wife, you got loved ones that you actually wanted to support beyond yourself and make sure they were safe. Like, that was, you said that earlier, your mindset was to make sure everybody was safe, but you're returning to that scene of the crime. There has to be some residue. That's established there. Do y'all have the opportunity or the, or the ability to talk to somebody or, or have the, uh, ability to reach out and make sure that y'all can get the support like, like the, uh, the synagogue received, you know, where people are pouring in to make sure that y'all still good and y'all can continue this mission in the way in which you wanted it to go.

Our resources is totally different and I hate to say it like this, you know, their resources, the professionals that came with them, I know that people die, but still you're dealing with trauma, you know, and to all respect to their situation, you know, I watch how I speak about it because 11 people did die and they didn't have the outcome that we had. And I thank God for that, you know, but they're professional people who stepped in. It's totally different than what was offered to us. We get the generic resources, the, you know, and no offense to the people who trying to help and I thank them for trying to help, you know, but at the same token, you need a higher level of professionalism coming in here, trying to help, not just the neighborhood church down the street. I mean, we got as much as wisdom and counseling in any church. So, you know, you just got to go to a higher level of professional, like the hospitals stepped in for them. You know what I'm saying? And different. When they had their situation, and I'm, I'm not looking for anything as far as, you know, do for us the way y'all did them, they, in one week, they got over $3 million in support for them and what they were going through, and one week, we didn't even get $1100 support, you know, they got professionals coming in, you know, I just started speaking with the justice, uh, uh, U. S. Department of Justice. They're actually now taking notice because, uh, two nights ago, a young lady get, uh, killed behind the church. And so these things is now bringing attention to this community and now they're stepping in and now I'm challenging them. But no, the resources that we got here compared to other people who have, I mean, other communities and other synagogues and churches, our resources is limited and we're getting a limited edition by far.

Have all the members been comfortable enough? To make their way back. Um, it's got to be difficult from a traumatic perspective. I know I'm married and if I told my wife, hey, we're gonna go to the church that the man tried to come and shoot the spot up. We would have to have a conversation, some fasting, some prayer and some other stuff before we. So how does that work? How is that working for you? Because obviously you're always trying to build and grow and expand the word and witness. How much more difficult is it in your situation with your limited resources?

Um, you know, we're being, I think the greatest aspect of counseling is coming from right here with us, you know, being here with us, you know, we're talking, you know, we know our congregation, we're like family. We're not just hirelings. We know our people. We spend time with our people. We go places with our people. You know, we talk on the phone all week. I talked to every one of my people. So, you know, That's the greatest aspect of healing going on and comfort level. I let them know that I'm doing things now so we can have security. Because even my wife told me, you know, when someone walked in the church, she looked back because I explained to her, like, Right now I had to take time off my job because, you know, just doing my family, dealing with the church, dealing with interviews and everything, I'm not working at this point. And so I still have to supplement my income by going out at times in Uber at nighttime. And so the thing that is, you know, I don't get paid from the church. I don't get a payment at all from the church, you know? So the thing that, um, I was saying, and it's, you know, it's affected me and I understood what my wife was saying was because like a young man got in my car. And he was sitting in the back seat and he opened up a Gatorade and it went pop. And at that minute, you know, I'm like looking back, then, um, the whole ride, I'm like looking at him saying, I wonder if he just gets in the car, no reason, just try something. I never thought that way before, but now that's my thinking. You, you understand what I'm saying? And so I see how it's still every day, something new is occurring that I'm like, this is the effect of what happened. And so. you know, but it allows me to be relatable to my people. And so now I'm really understanding, opening them, seeing what things they need. You know, most of them have came back and, you know, most of them is at the point where they just like, you know, God brought him here because this is a safe haven for him. God knew that we would keep him and God knew that he can get help. Nothing happened. And we're really trusting in God, you know, by the same token, I know it has to be some Residue because I got residue and I'm about as strong as anyone you're gonna find and I'm not boasting But I'm just being honest, but if I got residue they got residue

Pastor tell the audience specifically what You know What donations, what resources specifically that you need for your church and your church members.

And how do we activate that? Like what, what, yeah, absolutely. Give him the pathways to make sure that we can support you as a, as a African American community, as a world community, as a Christian community, how do we go about supporting you, encouraging you and making sure your guys, your people get the assistance that they need and the conversations that they need to have.

Well, I thank y'all for what you're doing now, because this is an outlet for conversations, and that's why, at this point, I haven't turned down an interview, because of the simple fact that this is something that people need to hear, you know? And my church is built around my theology. And my, my life is my theology. I live what I preach. I practice what I preach in every aspect of it is, you know, that's just how it is. And the reason why I'm saying that is because I'm reaching out to people because like in my church, I believe that God has gifted. Everyone with their individual gift and that gift have to be given over to the kingdom. You know what I'm saying? We all don't have every gift and my gift is teaching people the word of God. My gift is helping people counsel. I don't have the gift of understanding, you know, like they asked me. Okay. What can we do as far as, you know, how, you know, can you give a vulnerability assessment? Well, I'm not in security. You need to have somebody who is skilled in security, come, walk the building. You know what grants are available. You know what things are open. I don't know what grants are available. I'm focusing on pastor and teaching, open up the word of God. You know what I'm saying? So my cry, and I'm asking people, people who are gifted. in writing, um, grants, people who are gifted in understanding what things are available. I'm asking them, help me. You know, I, I, I, I'm limited. I'm not uneducated. I'm well educated. I'm street smart. And so, you know, I comprehend very well. And if you told me to do it, I can do it, but with everything else I'm juggling, it's not going to get done properly. When there's people who do this every day, who understand every aspect of this, help us. Just come and say, Hey, I want to help. I can do that vulnerability assessment that you need. I can make sure you get the grants you need. We just wrote one for our church. You know what I'm saying? I know what type of resources y'all need because I helped them through the same. I need that type of people coming on a board using their gift to help us. My gift is to counsel the people, make sure that they keep coming. You know what I'm saying? Keep them learning the word of God. That's my gift. And I try to stay in my lane. You know, if I have to do something else, then I, you know, I'm more than willing. But something's going to be missed, missing, because I'm not doing this every day. But for people who do things every day, you know, we need extra funding for sure. We need more resources for sure, you know, and that always helps. But at the same token, anyone who understands this situation, my cry to you is help us. You know, this is something that you deal with every day. Help us.

For those who have that anointment, Pastor, how do they reach you?

You can reach us right through our website. Um, it's jesusdwellingplacechurch. org. You can reach us right on, uh, you can look us up, Google us, and you'll see our church address and our church phone number, which is, you'll get strict, uh, connected right to me, uh, 412 304 4338. You know, you can, uh, look on my Facebook page. There's many ways if someone wanted to reach out to help us, they can help us. You know, I think the people who have been helping us, but the people have been helping us are people from like my community who are on fixed incomes. I'm getting $5 in the mail, $10 in the mail, and I'm grateful for it. Trust me. And. Our church is not, uh, we're not one of them churches where we beg for money and do something. I mean, I'll just explain this really quick. At our church, we don't even hand around an offering plate. We keep a box in the back of our church. You're looking, the box is right to my right hand corner. It stays on the side of the church. You give, you do it before church, you do it after church. But we're not stopping service for giving. Our focus is teaching people the Word of God. We go on different trips with our church. We do activities. Everything that we do is funded 100 percent by the church. We take our, we went down Alabama, Virginia, uh, New York, uh, everywhere we go, Philadelphia, we pay for the stay at the people stay. We feed the people. All you got to do is come everything. If our people ever have need, we don't check and see how much you gave. If you have need. Let us know. We'll take care of it. That's the type of church we are. We're not churches. We're begging. God's been meeting our needs, helping us all the time. And I'm grateful. So a lot of times I just be like, God, I know you, you'll handle it. But some of the time, if you don't speak about it, nobody will know about it. And so it has to be spoken about. And so my ask, my cry is that people who understand the situation, you know, Who can know different things that we need that I'm not able to see at this moment. Please get involved.

One of the pillars of Christianity is charity. And so my question to you is, of all this, obviously the tragedy of you guys not being adhered to by Uh, the responders or the authorities to make sure that you were secure is very tough. The magnificence of God protecting you and putting the cloak over you to make sure you stayed alive to tell this story and bring light to some of these things is a wonderful deal. But what would be one final thought that you would want to leave with our listeners or one thing that you'd like to say or resonate above all with this conversation we've been able to have with you today?

The greatest thing I would want to say to our, to people who are listening, and to be honest, you know, a lot of times focus on the incident, a lot of times focus on the need, but the greatest aspect is like, there's no sin beyond God's redemption, you know, I want people to understand, it don't matter what someone done, we need to learn to forgive one another, you know, give them the, um, give them the opportunity, give them the opportunity to know the Lord, you know, And the greatest aspect is, once again, I tell people all the time, what they see on video was not a miracle, and I'm not saying it wasn't a miracle, it was, it can be argued that, you know, scientifically, the gun jammed, and people can, you know, say, well, it gun jammed off an RA, I'm not going to argue that, you don't want to say it's a miracle, okay, I'm okay with it, but to be honest with you, the greatest miracle that I ever saw, and no one can argue, I know my past. And God was able to take someone like me with a past that I had and actually save me. And if he can save me and have me here standing in my sound mind, talking about how good he is, he can do the same for anyone. So my message to anyone is I don't care where you are, who you are, I don't care what you've been through. There is no sin that is greater than God's grace. And God is willing and waiting for you to repent and come home.

Amen, my brother. Amen. Pastor Glenn, number one, my friend. Um, I want to thank you for appearing on a Black Executive Perspective podcast, your love for your fellow human being, your love for God is just instrumental. It's, it's, it's just pouring out. I can imagine what you've been teaching your, your, your, your members and the love that they have for their fellow human being. And I'm going to ask our audience, because I learned this a long time ago. How does God bless people? Through people. So I'm asking everyone who's listening and watching this episode of a Black Executive Perspective podcast. And we're going to have their website and their number up and please, from the bottom of your heart, give, right? As pastor stated, they don't, they know what they know. And at the end of the day, based on the humanity, That they have shared and showed in a very hostile situation, which could have went a long way, a different way, but the love that they continue to show, not just the outside community of their police force and, and emergency services, but to the gunmen that tried to kill them. They showed love and patience and they turned the other cheek. So I'm asking you and the Black Executive Perspective podcast is going to make a donation to Jesus Dwelling Church. I'm asking you to also make a donation and bless these people as they have blessed the world. Pastor Glenn, we want to thank you for coming to a Black Executive Perspective. We're going to have you come back because we want to hear how things are going. You're welcome. Um, and more importantly, when I'm in the Pittsburgh area, trust me, my brother, I'm gonna come and check out your church, right? I love it. And especially with the part where the pastor, you can stop the pastor and you hold on now. I love that part, right? But all, all, all jokes aside, my friend, um, thank you for coming on. This is a tragic event, but to your point, God's love. His wisdom always surpasses any incident that we may have. So thank you again for joining us.

I appreciate it. Thank you, Chris. And thank you, Tony, for having me. It's truly a blessing. And we do plan on, well, I do plan on being instrumental in the young man's life. I actually spoke with the police officer, you know, and I let them know my background. I have an understanding and they told me it's okay for me to contact him. So I will be contacting him, going to visit him and be instrumental in his rehabilitation. Thank you.

That is beautiful, my brother. That is beautiful. So thank you. So I think it's now time for

Tony's Tidbit.

It's time for Tony's Tidbit. And the tidbit, as always, epitomizes what we talked about today. Divine intervention does not always come in the form of miracles. Sometimes it is seen in the courage of everyday heroes among us. And this, uh, tidbit epitomizes the church of Jesus dwelling because everybody there rose to the occasion and they rose to the occasion because of how Pastor Glenn has helped them open their eyes and learn more about the Lord. So we want to thank you.

It's also time in our weekly segment for Need to Know with Nsenga. Nsenga, what do you feel like we need to know this week?

Hello and welcome to Need to Know with Nsenga. Thank you for joining me today. I'm Dr. Nsenga Burton. I am a scholar. An activist, uh, and someone who knows a little bit, an ex, an expert in intersectionality. That's the intersection of race, class, gender, sexuality as it relates to media industries. Today I wanna talk about Congresswoman Jasmine Crockett and the iconic, beautiful, and lovely and very talented, uh, and accomplished Kelly Rowland. Um, of course. One third of Destiny's Child, solo artist, a mom, wife, all the things, and this angry black woman stereotype that black women have to face, especially black executive. This is something I've faced in my own career. When you are a dynamic black woman who is in complete control of herself and is competent in your job and usually has performance that exceeds that of others, you are often dubbed as the angry black woman. I've experienced this myself in the workplace. I've been told to make myself smaller so that other people, particularly men, um, aren't afraid of me. Other women aren't afraid of me. I've said something to a staff member, Um, you know, a support staff member, I'll say it and they won't hear it or if they push back, but if, you know, someone with a testicle says it, then they will jump to it right away. So it's not just men who malign, um, or dismiss, um, Um, or who require women to be less than. And so I want to talk about this in the context of what happened with Congresswoman Jasmine Crockett and, uh, Kelly Rowland, who of course is an icon, um, of many, in many ways, but you know, one third of Destiny's Child, one of the bestselling bands, groups of all time. So if you've been living under a rock this week, um, a Congresswoman, Jasmine Crockett, she's Congresswoman from Texas, uh, got into it. And I just say, got into it, uh, is, uh, Marjorie Taylor Greene who is a Congresswoman from Georgia where I live. Marjorie Taylor Greene does what Marjorie Taylor Greene is allowed to do. Attacked her personally, uh, attacked Jasmine Crockett personally about her appearance, um, talking about her eyelashes. And then Jasmine. Crockett went in on her. The response has been, Oh my gosh, look at these two women debasing themselves, look at these two women, you know, and with people equating what one did to the other. So Marjorie Taylor Greene literally attacked this woman. The expectation though, and this is the expectation of black executive women is for Jasmine Crockett to ignore, dismiss, and, Or just take whatever Marjorie Taylor Greene and her cronies give her without standing up for herself. That is actually a requirement. Whether HR admits it or not. A requirement for dynamic black women. In executive spaces, the same Kelly Rowland was spoken to in a way that she thought was unprofessional and inappropriate, uh, as she was attending the red carpet at the con film festival. When I tell you, my colleagues in the media have been trying desperately to paint this woman as a difficult person because she actually stood up for herself to a subordinate, a support staff member. Is just spot on for what we talk about when we talk about the angry black woman stereotype. So it's like, as long as you're doing it with a smile, being a dynamic black woman, you're willing to, um, dismiss people's microaggressions, macroaggressions, any type of aggressive behavior against you at any level, it doesn't have to be a boss. It can be a support staff, someone who reports to you at any level, then you are labeled an angry black woman. I'd like to remind people that Jasmine Crockett Is a Congresswoman, a Congress person who is actually in Congress. Congress is a workplace, so she should be afforded. The same level of professionalism that everyone else has afforded in Congress. Now, you know, if you watch Congress, we are in a downward spiral. Uh, there's no real decorum anymore. Um, you know, the people who are in Congress, many who have been elected, um, I just do not conduct themselves with any type of professionalism. Um, they seem to have no knowledge of how Congress works. And I do believe that Marjorie Taylor Greene is one of these people. Um, they have no interest in learning how the process works and, and I live in Georgia, by the way, so I can say this, they appear to have no interest in how Congress works so that they can get with the people of Georgia who have elected them, um, to office. And so, you know, when you are incompetent, when you are out of your league, uh, when you are not prepared for meetings and such, um, the same thing that happens in workplaces to the rest of us is what happens in Congress. You have a colleague who wants to deflect from them being unprepared or not really, you know, present intellectually present, um, or just not really willing to, uh, learn the norms of the office or how things work. And so they lash out in different ways and they elevate behaviors based on stereotypes about others, i. e. black women. So instead of people saying, Oh my gosh, Marjorie Taylor Greene insulted that woman in the workplace. Something should be done about this because it is a pattern of behavior for Marjorie Taylor Greene. It becomes Jasmine Crockett should have taken the high road. So my question is, how long are black women, especially dynamic black women, expected to take the high road? And when you don't take the high road, why do we have to be punished when we are standing up for ourselves, defending ourselves, or just giving the same energy that was given to us? Why does it, why is the onus on us to be the bigger person? And I know this sounds like middle school, but if you look at Congress today, It looks like middle school. All right. So yeah, we want to be Michelle Obama. When they go low, we go high, but in real life, we know that that doesn't always work. And the assumption that Jasmine Crockett has not tried to go high as it relates to Marjorie Greene Taylor and her cronies is also rooted. Uh, in this, uh, racist and sexist, I would say misogy misogynoir ideology about black women executives. And I say the same thing with Kelly Rowland. Um, the, the idea that she's difficult when she has had, I mean, 30 year career that has said everything but the opposite, has said the opposite of, uh, her being difficult is asinine. So to try to. Make it so that as she rises as an individual, um, in her acclaim, even though we all know she's highly acclaimed, right, if, if you follow her career, you know, she's highly acclaimed, um, and this. What appears to be this clear intention to make her out to be this angry black woman is really telling more about us as a society than it is about her. And I'd also like to remind people that celebrities are in the workplace when they're on the red carpet. They're not there just having fun so that you can go and do like, who's the best dress, who's the worst dress, who had the best that, and that that's for you. They are at work. They are showing up because they have been obligated to show up, right? It's all part of an industry. It's all part of a system. So she is at work. She's in the workplace and she's Kelly Rowland. They all need to stop pretending that she's like just some woman rolling up on the red carpet. If you're on the Canne red carpet, you are a significant figure in entertainment, period. If you are significant figure in entertainment, period. You should be treated a certain way. And the baseline is professionalism. So no, you know, I don't know what transpired where she had to tell him, don't talk to me that way. He touched her a couple of times. If you saw the video, um, I don't even know why that's appropriate. You know, all the touching. Um, if you touch people, sometimes it sets them off, they're triggered. They've had other experiences or what have you. That is professionalism one on one. Do not touch another person in the office, you know, in kindness or in hate, just don't touch them. Right. Um, so when we think about these things, Congress, when we think about the red carpet, they are workplaces. These are where black executive professional people in general, uh, women specifically in this instance. Uh, exist and so they should be treated with the same respect and decorum as everyone else. And when those lines are crossed, they should not be expected to not stand up for themselves, which is what people want us to do. Right. And when you do stand up for yourself, you are labeled difficult. Oh, we need to have a change in leadership. You know, even though this person is getting all the things done that we need them to get done, which is why they've been invited to be on the con, the Canne red carpet, or which is why they're been elected to Congress. Um, we still need you to make yourself smaller so that other people feel okay about themselves. We still need you to take the, uh, the higher road so that we can ignore all the misogyny, all the white supremacy, all the patriarchy that is being thrown at you, um, in these particular spaces that are hostile to us. And my last point is this, in a world where we're literally erasing black people in general, brown people too, black and brown people, um, immigrant people, um, from history books for the comfort of white people. Because that's really the reason that was given, right? It wasn't for any other reason other than the comfort, right? Oh my God, my students, my kids are uncomfortable. People are uncomfortable talking about this. When are we going to start thinking about Black women's comfortability? When do we get to be comfortable? In the workplace question. Have a great day.

Thank you. Nsenga. That was a great word and it's going to go a long way. We truly appreciate it.

Absolutely. That was some great information. Nsenga. Thanks a lot. So I hope everyone has enjoyed our episode today, 20 minutes too late, a church crisis and the delayed police response. So I think it's now time for our call to action and our call to action to L E S S, and we want everyone to incorporate this call to action. L stands for learn. We want everyone to learn about different people, different races. This way you can enlighten yourself and become more emboldened to meeting new individuals and accepting new circumstances.

And the E, it stands for empathy to understand the diverse perspective and make sure things are not only non denominational, but no denominational as it relates to the perspective that people can provide.

Exactly. And then S stands for share. Now you want to share what you've learned to your friends and family so they can become enlightened as well.

And then the S stands for stop. The second S is for stop. Cause we want to actively stop the work of discrimination and foster inclusivity. We want to make sure that we check those who are being exclusive and who are being discriminatory in their ways. And at the dinner table, at the, at the, uh, opportunities at the water cooler, make sure if you see something, you say something that correct these people because we learn from each other.

And by doing this, when we all can go ahead and move forward, this call to action. Guess what? We're going to make a more fair, more understanding world, and we're going to be able to see the change that we want to see. So everyone, incorporate less, make more. L. E. S. S. So more importantly, we want to thank you for joining another episode of a Black Executive Perspective podcast. Uh, again, 20 minutes too late, a church crisis and a delayed police response.

Make sure we're talking before we get out of here, make sure that you guys go to the website and sign up for our newsletter. Make sure you leave us a review and subscribe and provide comments. If there's anything you want us to speak about or you have on your mind that we should be addressing, make sure you leave that with us and we'll take a look at it. And hopefully it's something that we get back to you on a future episode.

Yes. And follow a black executive perspective. You can listen to our episodes on any podcast platform that you utilize, and you can follow a black executive perspective on all our social channels from LinkedIn, X, YouTube, Instagram, and TikTok at @ablackexec. For our fabulous guests, Pastor Glenn Germany, We want to thank him for joining for my man, Chris P. Reed, give him a shout out, Chris,

man, appreciate all the people, all of the love. And this is just a, the epitome of what, um, good people are about what this man has talked about today. And I think it'll fill a lot of our viewers with the spirit and hopefully move them. To be charitable and to be understanding and to be patient and to accept the grace that they have before them.

Absolutely. And then for our producer, Noel Miller, who is working behind the glass to make this all possible. I'm Tony Tidbit. We talked about it. We love you and we're out.

A Black Executive Perspective.