**** Producer's Note: The following is a general transcript of LCC Connect's weekly radio program. Contents include but may not be limited to podcasts, program imaging, announcements, and PSAs. More detailed and accurate transcripts of the podcast episodes featured in this broadcast can be found at LCCconnect.com or by following the links provided in the show notes of this episode. ****

Welcome to a psycho delicious conversation on mental health issues and trends from two local mental health professionals in the greater Lansing area. I'm Michael Stratton, lmsw.

And I'm Morgan Bowen, dnp, pmhnp. And we're here to provide you with a deep dive into the human experience of consciousness and beyond. Our aim is to be educational and entertaining. So just kick back and open your ears and your minds.

And I'm Mike Stratton.

And I'm Morgan Bowen.

I'm Dadalian.

Hi, Dadalion.

Dadalion is our producer and we've been talking about media. Media, wow. And mental health.

Did you guys rehearse that?

Was I not ready for that?

We don't rehearse at all. Which makes us so spontaneous and sparkling.

Our whole life is a, is a rehearsal. Yeah, that's right.

We are talking about media. It was my, my topic this week. We talked about just kind of a general conversation of media and mental health in our lives in the previous episode. So check it out. It's very interesting. On this episode we're going to talk about diagnosis and treatment with psychiatric and psychologic things related to media and mental health.

Yeah.

Have you. Michael, Mike does most of the narrating and you're so good at it. So I think you should just do it from now on. But I'm trying to step up here. Sorry I didn't give you much. That was a breathy. That was a breathy Michael voice. Yeah. Interested what personality? We're gonna. We're gonna.

Mike is my nightmare interview. So what did you think about that?

I thought it was good.

Okay.

Thank you. It was nice.

Fine.

I had a fourth grade teacher, Mrs. Crittenden. I thought about her this week and she was very big about using adjectives. And she said, you cannot in my classroom use the word nice. You have to think of a different word other than nice. If you could take out a word in the modern lexicon, the modern use of human language among the young folks, what would it be like? Yeah, I know. Like that. That rings in your head while you're editing.

You know, is it good?

I say both of those. Everybody does, you know.

Everybody does.

Bra. I cannot stand Bruh anymore. I have a 10 year old and a 6 year old niece and all these bruh. I'm like, dude, I like it just

because it cracks me out.

So my, my grandson, my, my 7 year old grandson calls me Bra.

It's the new. I'm like, dude, don't call me Brahm.

All right, back to the Topic.

Well, back to the topic today. So tell me about your practice and your practice working with folks and discussion about media. Is that a topic that you use or is that a topic you explore?

Well, people talk about how anxious they are about what's going on right now. And one of the things we'll talk

about is almost always, I would say,

yeah, yeah, you know, how much time do you spend on media? Have you ever really looked at that? What's that like? Do you want to try and experiment and just try to be mindful about it and actually write down how much time am I doom scrolling or how much time am I spending on the news? How much time do you feel like is enough time for you? That kind of thing?

Any trends or associations that you see?

Well, yeah, yeah. Depression and anxiety spike. There seems to be an inverse relationship to that. So the more you watch, the more anxious you are.

And there's a perseverative aspect to a lot of depression and certainly anxiety, that rumination, that obsessive thinking about something. And in the modern day and age, and that has been a thing with mental health issues for a long time, forever probably. But in the modern world, there's so much an opportunity to get into a topic that is distressing or triggering for you and just go to town on the Internet or, and find a thousand different sources and spend literally all of your day looking at something that is probably not doing much for your mental health.

One thing that's weird about the algorithms too is they study what you spend time looking at and what you scroll past. And so they know you, they know you better than you know yourself. You know, it's like, why is this, why does this keep showing up? I'm like, well, it's because, because it's doing something to you that's making you go back to it and again and again and again.

Well, there's this idea of the dopamine rush. So in any repetitive reward seeking behavior, dopamine is the chemical that's reinforced in your brain that gives you a positive burst of joy, of a feeling of euphoria. So folks who use substances, that's the underlying brain chemical process that drives the cravings, the desire to go back. And the thought is that that is the same thing that happens in like a TikTok trance where you're just scrolling, seeing something and it's funny and you get this jolt of interest and positive feeling, but then it passes very quickly and you go to the next one and you get the same thing. And so that reinforcement draws you back. And if you watch young people or old people or older people, the interest in the phone, just looking at the phone, where's the phone? Where is my phone at? What's happening with my phone? It's subconscious, it's unconscious, that just association and mental obsession. Do you see that in your family or.

Yeah, absolutely. Well, two things got triggered for me. One is when I was getting a lot of referrals from high schools and colleges and that kind of thing, especially college kids would go to college and I'd get a referral like, oh, no, he's flunking out. And when he'd come in, he's spending all day in his dorm room on just playing video games, you know, just doing that. Some people were doing it professionally, were actually, you know, gaining points of some kind on the behalf of another user and getting paid for it, which was an interesting kind of concept. But a lot of people were flunking. I don't, I don't want to say a lot of people, but it was a thing, it was a thing that I saw more than once, very often accompanied by somebody who had a lot of social anxiety, like didn't have a lot of friends or had 10,000 friends. You know, I have 10,000 friends. They're all online. I don't know any of where they live. You know, that kind of sign. So that, that is definitely one of the things that if you kind of trend towards being obsessive, have those kind of OCD qualities, it's a real pitfall you can jump into. And these games are so exquisitely designed.

I'm a video gamer and I love them. I, I, I grew up in the Nintendo generation, so Super Mario Brothers. I had the original Nintendo that we bought at service merchandise and yeah, date yourself twice there. Yeah, Okamos and the Meridian Mall. But kids are like service merchandise. That was the dopamine rush of that day when it would come down the conveyor belt and you're like, oh, my gosh, yeah, it's coming. Is that. It is. You know, you get so excited. But so video games have come a, you know, such a long way from analog, you know, eight bit to expansive worlds where people literally get invested into the world and it becomes their world. They go to conventions, they dress up, they. The imagination, how the imagination, how the lived experience melds with this more fantastical, imaginative space. And a lot of people create these kind of in between realities for themselves.

What was your favorite game?

What was my favorite game? I loved Mario. Super Mario Brothers 2 is one of My favorite games of all time. So that was a fun game.

Grand Theft Auto San Andreas.

This always cracks me up that you play that game. Yeah, yeah.

He doesn't seem like a Grand Theft Theft Auto. It's the other side. Yeah, it's the other side of it. Do you.

Do you beat up the hookers in the game?

No. No.

Well, there's a whole online rabbit hole of people that do it, so.

Yeah, I know that. No, the most fun thing for me was to get to the five stars. So everyone in the world is chasing me around and it's a riot. It's just, you know, just have to run and run and drive as fast as you can. That's so much fun. Anyway, that was the.

Well, it's.

But you have to do a lot of crimes to get to the park stars.

Mike managed to pull it off funny. So what kind of, you know, thinking of. There's no diagnosis of video. Actually video game addiction is kind of an evolving diagnosis. It's in the DSM repository Diagnostic instrument Statistical Manual for review. It's in that stage where they're developing it and likely will become a diagnosis

but and combination probably of OCD and social anxiety. I would think for the most part

and a lot of times my clients. So I have a lot of clients who are video gamers or they live in a very much online. So this is another term parasocial world. So parasocial relationships. These are online relationships or maybe gaming relationships where the person gets a social outlet from doing communal gaming. Gaming and often repeated groups or people that they may live in totally other countries, maybe completely different generations. They know maybe very little about the person, but they feel that they have a connection with them through their gaming experience. And Discord Channels is another big one too for socialization. So these very virtual online relationships that are incredibly meaningful.

What's Discord channel?

Discord is a server. It's a. An app or a software program that allows for private channels basically. So you know, you can have five people in them and everybody can message and you can message among each other or individually. And there's a chaperone. They call it something else. They call it a moderator who runs the channel. And so it's. It's. It's a kind of a. The modern version of AOL chat rooms. Michael, as you may remember. So. But there's a million of these signal, you know, now people know signal. It's a private messaging group. So. But the idea of just having these. They're not face to face. They may never Meet this person, you know, in, in real life. But that kind of is secondary. A lot of times they just don't really think that that's super important. So, you know, the creation of these spaces provides an avenue for, you know, I work with a lot of trans folks, so fairly marginalized communities where they're scared to leave their house or don't have the opportunity or feel safe doing that, finding other people who are also in the community and interested in the same thing. So it's a very supportive, valuable thing. But just people living, you know, their lives very much online in a very different way. I think about my trans clients as well, because the current thing, I mean all the social policies and political targeting and cultural targeting of trans folks is pretty, I mean, it's intense. I don't think anybody could disagree with that. And so there's the digesting of the media, of the, of the news. It can be just a suck the person in.

Definitely a target. Yeah. Right now. Yeah.

When I meet with somebody, a lot of times they're seeking services because they're anxious and they're depressed. And maybe not chronically, this is, maybe they've been depressed in their life previously, college adolescent whatnot, but now they're depressed again. Maybe a second episode, maybe a first episode in the modern, you know, post Covid world is on fire. Everything is, you know, very different. And so part of the initial discussion is very frequently, what, what are you, what, what are you paying attention to? Like what, what, what is in your life? What is your day to day messaging like? Is there a value on these larger cultural topics that are very triggering? Or is it on the people around you, Your child, your partner, your close friends, the people who are in your community? Why is it, or is it a thing that we're not necessarily avoiding, but we're kind of not seeing the value in what that could be versus seeing the negative of all the other things that are going on?

Yes.

And in my own life, I've been trying to navigate this, this is why we're talking about it. So give me some sage wisdom, Michael.

Well, you know, the. He's just going to be a bad interviewer. Now the advantage of, I mean, some of the good uses of social media or of any media, even digital work, one thing is it can be a distraction from people who are doing a lot of doom scrolling and they want to do screen time.

Tell me about doom scrolling.

Yeah, let's say, define, define doom scrolling. Oh, people that are deliberately looking for things that like. Tell me about the. You Know how bad is the climate? And going down that rabbit hole or.

And then reading article after article or news snapshot or.

And then their analytics are adding on to it and saying, oh yeah, you

want to be proven right. You're right.

Yeah. Or people that are specifically looking for. I want to see video of children that are hurt or have been killed in Gaza. I've seen people that have done that. Yeah. Very dark place. And they live with that and they become hopeless. And it's not that it's not there, it's really there. But the more they dwell in that space, the more that kind of darkness starts to really consume them. And that feeling of being helpless also starts to consume them.

One of the value of therapy as well as talking with a mental health professional and sorry to cut you off,

but I was going to say.

Morgan, well, listen, you wanted me to talk, but I. You are. But that's such an important point. When, when somebody is, you know, in a doom scrolling space and they want, they come into the session and they want to tell you about. But all the, you know, the children in Gaza or whatever the topic may be. And we as clinicians try to say this. I'm not debating you about, you know, all the terrible things that are happening. They are for sure happening. I'm not trying to talk you out of that. I'm trying to shift the framework here and talk about your relationship with that. Not about the content, but about what's happening with you sometimes.

I can get that and understand it. Yeah.

It's your turn to talk now. Okay.

Yes. Dance monkey. You're supposed to answer.

Yes.

This used to be a thing. Well, sometimes you can talk about a movie that's meaningful in a way that like, have you ever seen such and such a movie which really kind of captures the dynamics of what you're talking about. So that's a way to refer people. You can refer people to a book, but you can also refer people to a film that you're aware of. And there was somebody that came out with like a book about therapeutic movies, you know, different things to relate to people, like with depression. I mean, what would you recommend people see? For instance, it's like, oh my gosh, I don't know. All. I watched a lot of Pixar movies when I was going through my thing.

Oh, that, yeah. What's that? Emotions.

It was. Yeah, yeah, stuff like that. What is that one? It's. We'll figure that out before is in it. Yeah, but, but anyway, I watched a lot of Pixar Because I figured anything little kid movies type things, really gonna pick me up most the time anyway. And it did. It was really helpful. Go ahead, you guys can talk. Well, if you look at Amy Poehler, we'll find out. Pixar movie.

Are you saying, like, if you are depressed, like a movie?

Inside out.

Inside out.

Inside out.

Excellent. So I've got a niece who's a clinician. She bought 75 copies of that film and she gave a copy to each one of her clients. Really saying this is such a great way to understand the brain and understand your emotions and to see how your emotions are really valuable and how you need all of these emotions. These are not things to run away from, but to integrate so that you.

I thought it was great. I watched it with my niece and nephew, 10 and 6. They were younger at the time, but they loved it and really latched onto the idea of different emotions and different. Were able to name things and it was really good. I just thought it was a really good exposure to emotional intelligence for children.

It was great.

And for all of us.

I haven't seen the second. Second part yet.

Anxiety. I think anxiety comes in.

Did it. I haven't seen that one then. No, just the first one. It's. Yeah. Well. And also. Is it. Did you see the second one?

I think so.

It's puberty. She goes into puberty.

So I don't want to revisit now.

So they're going all over the place. They're bouncing all over.

Never, ever, ever would I want to go back to middle school.

All right, back to media. Back to media.

Yeah.

What media did you have in, like, there was very little. When I was in high school, there was very little media.

I read all the time. There was no. I mean, we got. My parents wouldn't even have cable. We got two channels because I lived in the country. Fox 47 and channel 10.

Yeah, same. I read all the time. So you guys actually have people come into your office and saying. I mean, basically they're just obsessed with what's going on in the news. See, this doesn't comprehend.

Yeah, this doesn't.

That. That won't be the presenting problem. The presenting problem would be depression. I'm depressed, I'm anxious. I'm making any headway in my life, I'm a failure. And then as you start to talk about what their day looks like and what do they do and what do they do for fun and how are they spending time as they tell you more of their story, then you start to see, like, oh, wow. It sounds like you really do a lot of that. Or people that are. Especially kids used to do this. Kids used to come in with their phone set at the phone there and be texting during the session. And I say, oh, wow, what would

it be like if you didn't text for a while? Do you get upset? Do you get irritated with that?

No, I don't. Well, for one thing, it doesn't happen anymore. And I just. I take it as information, you know?

Yeah, yeah.

It's like, tell me about the relationship you have with that person you're texting. It seems like that's an important relationship, you know, so it's a. It's another way to enter into their world.

Yeah.

And engage them. Yeah.

Well, what are some things that you recommend for if you feel like somebody, social media or media consumption is contributing to the issue? What, what would you.

What I said before, you know, in terms of, like, why don't you. You want to try an experiment to track it and see how much time you're actually using it and the next time they come in to say, does that seem excessive to you? Does that seem about right in an ideal world? How much time would you be spending? Do you want to try an experiment this week of. Of. Let's see if you can limit it to that or. You also said that you wanted to listen to music more than to watch the news. You want to try to do that? What are you going to listen to this week? Just a number of things like that. Other activities that you want to do. Finding replacement activities is important.

Posing that question, what is a healthy relationship with media look like to you? We would say that to the client, but what does it look like to you?

To me, to keep informed but not swallowed up by. So to be informed enough that I have an idea of what the headlines are. To have a sense of historical context. I mean, really.

Heather Cox Richardson, you're really influenced by. I am too. I mean, I really like her and I found her during the pandemic. All of a sudden it just seemed that I can't remember who turned me on to her, but I was very grateful. Probably me. Well, it could very well could have been you, so. And I appreciate the academic. I went. I've been in college more times than I can count. Love college, would love to get a PhD, but I can't afford it. And so I appreciate her perspective. I value it. I think she's well informed. I think she's well argued. I think she has a perspective and I appreciate it because it vibes with mine.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I. And identifying, you know, anything that feels really in particularly toxic. We didn't even get into this, but I've seen a number of people who had porn addictions. Yeah, that was kind of a big thing for a while. Not so much anymore. I think it's just porn is so ever present for so many people that they don't see it as well.

It's a huge component of this, I mean, at least in the trajectory of, you know, our as humans relationship with information and access to information and you know, sexual impulse. Desire, gratification is such a dopamine rush. I mean that is a mainline to dopamine. So historically, evolutionarily that's programmed into us. So it's very easy to fall into. Well, I would say for men and women, but you know, more commonly associated

with men, more more often with men. Some women would present with. I feel like my husband's having an affair when he looks at pornography. You know, they take like that. Other women are like, show me what you're watching, I want to watch it with you. Let's, you know, let's have fun together. Yeah, it's, it's really different and based on different people's values.

And in my case with TikTok, you know, during the pandemic, like I mentioned in the previous episode, I mean I was watching hours, hours a day. I couldn't wait. That was like,

Nothing's wrong with that.

I mean, well, it can be whatever,

whatever gets you through the night.

Wow, Michael, he keeps taking us down the dark path. I know. Michael is.

My wife says this all the time.

Well, TikTok, you know, this idea, I'm really interested in this idea of brain rot. Like these things that really take our, our brains down, our, our digestion or our relationship with really not nourishing information. I mean, whether it be porn, I mean you can, I mean in the gay community, porn addiction is a huge problem. The sexualization, the imagery, I mean, you know, that's a, that's a big deal.

There's a huge correlation with young people with the amount of media they're consuming, specifically, you know, digital media and depression and anxiety.

Yeah, absolutely.

And so it's like, it's not good. It's really not good for young people. So to have limited things that they're able to have access to I think is probably a good idea.

Yeah.

Going back to the doom scrolling and all that. Do you feel like most of the people that come in with the depression and you kind of link it to well, this is part of your issue. Do you think? Are they generally aware of that? You know, it's.

But they don't do anything about it. They haven't done anything about it.

Yeah, yeah. It's a number of things. So it's the amount of media they're consuming, it's being inactive. It's one thing I'll recommend to people that come in with depression is to say I'll talk to them like how much do you move? Are you working out at all? Would you be open to taking a walk three times a week? Go for a 20 minute walk to start with. Just try that. Just walk around your block or something. And it's amazing how many people don't do even that. But when you start to move your body, when you start to focus on other things, you do start to feel better. So depression pulls you into places that are dark and that becomes what your brain tends to be.

People feel compelled. They feel like they don't have a choice. I know this is bad for me, speaking particularly about media, but I can't stop doing it. I'm compelled.

A Psycho Delicious Conversation is meant for educational and entertainment purposes only. It is no substitute for therapy and should not be treated as such. If you feel a need for real therapy, you should should consult your local provider, Google Therapy, or therapists in your area. Check with community mental Health or a suicide hotline if you are feeling suicidal.

Mike and Morgan welcome your questions, feedback or dilemmas. Feel free to send us an email at a psychodelicious conversationmail.com that is a psychodelicious P S Y C H O D E L I C I o u s conversationmail.com the views expressed on

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Hello everyone and welcome to Now Spinning, the official podcast of the Lansing Community College Vinyl Record Club. We meet twice a month to listen to vinyl and talk about music. Stay tuned to learn about how you can get in Touch with us and attend our meetings. Hello, everybody. Welcome back to Now Spinning. With me today, I have Leo Ackerman, Jacob Zokvic, and today we're gonna be talking about albums that we've recently discovered.

By the way, who are you?

I'm Simon Medina, by the way. Two episodes in a row. I'm losing it. I'm losing my edge, man. Okay, anyway, albums. So, Leo, do you have an album for us today?

Oh, you bet I do.

Oh, no, I'm gay.

All right, so I've been doing a bit of listening this year. You know, I try to keep up with the Zeitgeist. The new Mac Miller is very good. The new FKA Twigs is very good. But what has stuck out to me the most is this new band, relatively new band called Yahweh Nail Gun, and this record called 45 pounds. They're a new York band with members Zach, Sam, Jack and Sagiv. This album is nuts. Like,

so we all listened to everybody's picks for this before the show, and, yeah, I was like, okay, yeah, all right.

It's frightening.

It's scary, which is awesome.

I mean, that's clearly the vibe they were going for.

Yeah, the album is, like 21 minutes long, maybe. And even then, after my first listen, I had to lie down because it was just such an assault on the senses. Like, it feels like you're being smothered when you're listening to it. It's an onslaught. You can't really tell where the guitar ends and the synths begin on that album. They kind of morph into this, like, acidic sludge almost.

Well, and specifically related to that concept is it does that without ever becoming just Wall of Noise. It's. It's similar, but it's. Everything is still distinct enough to. To never let you just fully chill out. You know what I mean? And that. And that's. You know, a lot of people do the Wall of Noise concept, and it all just becomes so much that it just becomes one sound. And this is like, they did it really well, that you like it's an onslaught without just being too much. You know what I mean?

Right.

I think what really helps with that is, first off, the production. I think if they were to just go, like, full wall of noise and have every instrument layered over and over again, super clean, it would. I think it would become very grating. But I think what they opted for instead, based on what I'm hearing, is like a live recording. It sounds like they're not as focused on capturing each instrument individually. They're more focused on the sound in the room and how loud it is and how oppressive it is. Except for the drums. The drums are very clean.

Yeah, well.

And that's. You said, like, you don't know how much they went for perfection, but I didn't hear any mistakes either. You know what I mean? It's not super perfectionist, super clean, but it's not like they just phoned it in either.

They're a very tight band. Very, very tight band. Especially the drummer.

They probably rehearse just all the time, the drummer.

Okay. So a big part of what makes this record sound unique to me is the drummer uses what's called rototoms. And I think they were invented in the 1980s to project more in bands. Unfortunately, they don't really sound like normal toms. They're in sort of this uncanny valley between, like, a melodic instrument and just like a big thwack of a traditional tom. So it almost sounds synthetic, but it is being played live. And that, alongside the sort of, like, slushy guitars and synths, is just a very strange texture. It's smooth until the vocals come in. And the vocals sound like this dude has either been swallowing bees or been strangled. There's just a lot of really interesting, like, textural interplay going on. And I think that is another thing that makes the record interesting is it's very much about texture and very much about the sensation of the sound on your ears rather than the compositions. They settle into these, like, locked grooves. Similar to, like, a band like this Heat or even a Swans, but with, like, a dancer, like, rhythm section. Like I was saying earlier, an onslaught, an attack on the listener, demanding, hey, you're gonna listen to this. This is gonna be intense. We don't care if you like it or not.

Yeah. And it's not for everyone, you know, I would recommend everybody go check it out because it is very interesting. I won't fault you if you don't listen to the whole thing, though.

Yeah, it's a lot. And I. It's. It's so much. It's so.

And especially if you like high concept things, you're gonna think this is pretty cool because it's. It doesn't get boring. It's short, which helps. But, yeah, it's. It's out there.

Not much else like it out there, especially. I'll say that is. I've never. I mean, me personally, I've never heard anything that comes near this. This album in terms of the sound that it's got going on, in terms

of the sound in terms of the intensity.

Yeah, the. Just the emotion behind it. You can tell there's a lot going on there.

Like, there are so few bands right now that I can think are genuinely pushing, like, the boundaries of rock forward.

Yeah.

I can think of, like, maybe three others off the top of my head. And even then, they don't really come close to this in terms of what they're trying to do. I don't know. I. I could gush about them forever. I could gush about their eps, because I went back and listened to those after the fact, and they stand up on their own. They're completely different sounding. Like, of course, the rhythm section's the same. The guitars in the synth are also there, but their mastery of, like, texture is unmatched to me.

And it's. I find it interesting you mentioned the drums, and that's. I. I find with a lot of bands that go for a more high concept or less defined sort of sound. The immediate example I can think of is My Bloody Valentine, which one of my favorite bands of all time. Probably my favorite band of all time. Not really the same sound, and they're not really going for the same thing, but it's a similar idea in that, like, what on earth is going on? And the one constant that, like, reminds you that you're still listening to a rock song because there's just a sick drum beat in the background going the whole time. And you're like, I would have no idea what's going on if somebody wasn't there going, like, all right, it's four.

Four.

Okay. You can figure this out. You know, that's a really cool thing to. To recognize just how important rhythm is, especially with something like this. You're gonna need that to be able to communicate your concepts. You know what I mean? If people don't have a sense of time, you're not going to feel the same when a big change happens in a song or between songs. You know what I mean?

That.

That sense of time is huge. And they did it really, really well. And like you said, it must be an amazing drummer.

The. All of the rhythm across this thing is out of this world. Like, the songs, a lot of them are in odd time signatures, but you don't really notice it on first listen. Like, the first one I can think of is I Believe it's Animal Death Already Breathing. That song is I believe in 5 4. I could be mistaken, could be the wrong song, but it grooves like it's in four. Four. Just. It's masterful. I Love it to death. It sounds almost like Bill Bruford from King Crimson. Drums, especially in the tone and how resonant everything is and how it cuts through the mix. I'm gonna cut myself off here. I'm gonna cut myself off here. I gotta let other people talk. Please listen to £45 by Yahweh Nailgun.

Yeah, that's a lot. Interesting album.

We should point out now also, this is the only album from the year 2025 that we're gonna. Men.

Yeah, yeah, I think.

And that's like that pushing that sound. But go check it out. Because new music is very important to get into.

I don't know if we've ever talked about anything else that was actually released this year. So that's exciting.

Not yet.

It's very interesting. But of course, the one I'm talking about is from, let's say, 1982. 1982, I think. 1982, 1981. Either one of those years. Something completely different. And that is the album Toure by Dexie's Midnight Runners and Kevin Rowland. And this is an album that. Now I know it existed because just. Cause like, you know the song Come On Eileen, it's the biggest song off that album.

Everybody's heard that song.

Everybody's heard that song.

It's played on the radio all the time. And it's a great song. I still like it. You've heard it plenty.

Yeah, definitely.

I had never heard another song off this album until today when you told me to go listen to it.

Yeah, I mean, I came across like a YouTube video talking about the album, and I listened to it and I was. I listened to the YouTube video, and it seemed very, very interesting thing going on. I listened to the album and it's fantastic. I really. I really enjoyed it. It's also very interesting circumstances by which this band kind of came about. It's sort of a combination of Celtic folk music and an existing kind of soul revival that was going on in Northern England in the late 70s, early 80s, which was fueled by a lot of obscure American soul artists who are zero popularity here in America. Nobody's heard of them, but for some reason, they really blew up in Northern England. And that kind of developed alongside, like, the punk scene and the ska scene at the same time. So this band's earlier work, definitely there's a lot more influence from, like, ska and punk. But this album, they kind of take those elements and they combine it with the Celtic folk music, and they really make something unique with it, I think.

Can I clarify? Second Second Wave Ska.

Second Wave ska.

It sounds a bit like madness. Doesn't really sound like the ska Delight.

No, this.

Yeah, it's. It's very cool to hear that kind of influence which would eventually make its way over here and become Third Wave Sky.

Oh, boy. Yeah. This album, I think there, it's. They kind of dial that back kind of compared to the first one just because they focus a lot more on like the. The violin more than the horns on this because the whole Celtic music thing. But I think that it's really like a beautiful combination of that with, like I said, like the Celtic music, like, they lean heavily into that. And one thing I noticed, just to start, just like the thing that stands out most to me when I listen to this album is just the vocals are just really fantastic. Full of energy, like optimism.

Full of emotion.

Yeah, emotion, exactly. That kind of thing.

His name is Kevin Rowland.

Kevin Rowland. Yeah, Rowland. I'm not sure.

Who's to say. I don't know. I listened to this record also today for the first time and the first thing that really stuck out to me was Kevin Rowland's vocals. Excellent performance, like on every song. Never phones it in. He's always giving it his all. And the rest of the band too. I mean, the instrumentation is. It's just delightful.

Absolutely.

I do love the violin and that's like, you know, my next best reference for like a modern take on Celtic music is like Enya, you know, who obviously has great violin bits in a lot of her songs. Very different style, but you can hear it. You can totally hear that similarity. And it's very cool to, you know, to get a cultural sort of sense to it while still making a new and modern sound.

Yeah, definitely.

They nailed it.

Oh yeah. Just like. It's just such a. Like a strange combination to think about. It's like, was it a second wave ska, like soul music and then Celtic folk? It's just an interesting, interesting blend, I think.

I don't.

I don't.

I. So I don't know how ska these guys are or not.

There's a little bit of. If you listen to their first album, you'll definitely hear.

I'll definitely have to check it out. But yeah, it's like I said, the. The reference point of like madness. I can kind of hear it. But yeah, it's. It's such an arrangement, you know, it's. It's bordering on like Beatles esque, you know what I mean?

Definitely with.

With all the strings and horns and things.

Oh yeah, yeah, 100%. You said there was a specific song in here that you wanted to mention also that you thought was good.

Jackie Wilson said, yes, I heard this song and I went, wait a minute, I know this song. It does not sound just like the original, but it is similar enough that I picked it out right away. But they did do some cool things with it. So. The version of Jackie Wilson Said that I'm most familiar with is by Van Morrison. I assume he wrote the song, but I don't actually know.

Yeah, he did, he did.

But I listened to a ton of Van Morrison when I was like, really young.

Actually.

It's one of my parents favorite artists. Even though it's actually a bit before their time even. But yeah, it's. It's cool when a group can do a cover and it still feels very much like the original, but it's still totally their own. And this is one where I'm like, okay, you guys nailed it. It's not that different, but it's. It's plenty different enough. And I do like it.

I agree with that. It's a great cover, this album. I just like it a lot. It's very. I must say, it's very uplifting. Like musically, like it's something like you put it on if you're not like, you know, having a bad day. You listen to that, it'll make it better. I think. Definitely.

There's a couple of sadder songs.

Yeah, but of course. But like, you know, it's just like, generally it's just like kind of the. It feels a little bit like, you know, like optimism in the face of adversity. I kind of like that a little bit. Just like kind of that it's got that going on well.

And that's like. If there's a reason Come On Eileen is so famous, it's because of exactly that. That is just such a happy bop.

Absolutely.

It's great.

Especially in the context of the record. Like, I mean, I. Come On Eileen is a great song. It's hard to contest it. It's a classic for a reason. It's on radio all the time. I know popular doesn't equal good, but sometimes the masses are right. And in the context of this record, it shines even more. I think it comes after the song.

Old.

Yeah, yeah.

And I really like old. But Come On Eileen, after that it's like, oh my God, it hits like a truck. It's awesome. It's like, I don't know, like you were saying, it's just. It's great to put on, like, if you're having a bad day, or if you're just, you know, feeling kind of glum, it's. It's a little treat.

You know, we keep talking about the violins. Yeah. Song Come On Eileen just starts with that sick, like, violin riff and violin famously a sad sounding instrument. It's just that thing sings. But it is totally capable of being a happy, fun instrument too. And this is a great example of

that where you're just like, yeah, definitely.

And I think that's highlighted by the genre blend that's going on. Because I think if you were to just do like one of these on their own, the violin in each of these might feel off. But because it comes at such a specific point in time where new wave and punk and like second wave ska and Celtic music are blending, everything just comes together naturally. And I think that's really unique about this record and I think it's awesome.

Very great. No, yeah, that's about my thoughts on it as well. Great album. Check it out. You won't be disappointed even if you've just heard the hit off of it. The rest of it definitely stands up to it, I think.

And what is it called again?

2 ri a. But it's like 2 ri a a y. It's a great record. Just look up Come On Eileen and then click on the album it's from.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It's a good start.

Great. Love that album. Great album. So what did you want to talk about? What album do you have today?

So I would like to talk about the artist Efric Simone. The problem is I'm not entirely sure what this album is called, so I did some research before this. Afric Simone is a artist from Mozambique, very popular in the 70s and 80s, very famously made it past the iron curtain, did a ton of shows and had great album sales in places like Romania, Moscow. He did a bunch of apparently huge shows and stuff like that, and shows in America and shows in Europe and stuff too. And, you know, I. As far as like a genre or something, I would call it like African influenced kind of disco soul sometimes, but specifically the album. So I found this because of a song that was underneath, like, YouTube video that I was watching and I was like, that sounds sick. I gotta figure out what that is. And after some Shazaming later, I was kicked back to this. So if you look up Afric Simone on Spotify, you'll get an album called Afric Simone. As far as I can tell, that is not an album that exists, what I believe they have. So I did Some looking, and I found on Discogs, the new hits and remix album. And that's pretty obvious what's happening. So if you go and listen to the stuff from the 70s, a lot of the songs have more traditional instrumentation. But this particular album sounds like a 90s disco track. And if you've not caught it before, I love that stuff, you know what I mean? Give me McCoy, give me Sophie B. Hawkins. Give me all of it, you know what I mean? All ends of that spectrum, too. Unlimited. I know it's corny, but I love it. And this is like that distilled sort of corniness, but with so much extra flavor that it's just incredible and cool that an artist was able to just take cultural things like we were talking about before and make them new and continue to do stuff, you know what I mean? By the 90s, a lot of people enter the third decade of their career and they can slow down or just give up. And he kept kicking. He's still kicking. So I was reading on the Wikipedia page, apparently a shaman from, I believe, Brazil blessed him and told him he was going to live to be 100 years old. He's 85 right now. So I'm expecting a new Efric Simone record sometimes in the next 10 years, at least. I'm hoping for it. But, yeah, it's an interesting. It's an interesting one, especially because, like, again, I just found it by accident, and it's immediately so obscure, and doing research on it does not return a whole lot. And I don't really know where to go to find this. You know what I mean? Like, if I just run down to the record lounge, I don't think I'm gonna find this Eric Simone record anywhere. I would be happy with any of them, to be clear. I'll take the ones from 1975. Those are really great, too. Go listen to all of his stuff. It is very cool and not, like most of things you're gonna hear. Most of the lyrics are in, like, Swahili and stuff like that, where, you know, we've talked about African music here before, you know, like, we've talked about shroudy jazz. One of my favorite jazz albums of all time that is still very modern sounding. But this, like, it really feels like this is a. This is a person that's. That's taking a very modern take and making it work in a fun way and not just in a experimental or academic way. Every one of these songs, I just want to dance so weirdly. Like, I hate to be the weird Guy here. But the place that I've listened to this album the most, in the shower. I hate the self care routines. I'm sure so many of you do too. And I need a pick me up when I'm in there scrubbing and stuff. And yeah, FX mode. It's like so great. And I wish I could go to a club and dance to something like this because it is just so fun and you know, it's. They're all bangers, you know what I mean? If I could highlight a couple songs in particular. Paloma Mama. I don't. I'm doing my best impression. I don't know. I don't speak Swahili. I don't even know if that's. Some of the songs are in French. I don't know what this one is, but that one is epic. And specifically the version that's on this album, the start of it sounds like he's about to drop a rap track and you're like, what is going on? And actually when I was again looking on Wikipedia, they were claiming somebody, somebody had posted on the page claimed that Efric Simone invented beatboxing. Which I'm like, I could. I don't know. You know what I mean? At best, maybe a couple people invented beatboxing, but he definitely did things very, very similar to what we would consider like American style beatboxing.

Yeah, definitely.

And that's really cool. And you get the start of songs like Ramaya and Hafanana. I don't know, I might not have had enough Nas on the end of that, but. Yeah, where it starts and you're just like, you what? You know what I mean? But it never really becomes goofy either. It's so sincere and it's so fun and it never feels like you're listening to something ridiculous. And I love that. I love that commitment to like, like, let's just have some fun. Another great song. Hakuna Matata predates the Lion King.

Those frauds. Those frauds.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, that's, you know, they. They had to get some Swahili into Lion King somewhere, you know. But I. Hakuna Matata is. You know, I was a kid in the 90s, I watched Lion King Plenty. And I. And I do take some, some just a little bit of my philosophy does incorporate some Hakuna matata into it. And this is one where as soon as I heard it, I went, is he saying. Oh, no, he's definitely saying that. And it's just really cool to like have one other cultural reference point for this phrase and to realize, like, oh, no, it is. It is a thing. And people do take this really seriously and. Great song. You know, I really like that one. There's another song on there that Hakuna Matata is part of the pre chorus. It's not in the song title. I don't remember the name of the song. I'm sorry. But yeah, it's a really good one. Highly recommend you go listen to it. It's on Spotify, it's on YouTube. Music and stuff. Again, it seems to just be called Afric Simone on those platforms. I don't know what's going on. I don't know who owns the rights to this album, but they're being a little fast and loose with the rules. So if you got any information, if you know where I can get this, let me know. I want it.

The only thing I gotta really say about this, I mean, I agree with everything you said. You really summed it up.

Yes, thank you.

The one thing I have to add is like, the synth sounds are out there, but they never. But you're right. They never become goofy like an Ramaya. There's this sound that almost sounds like the Roadrunner taking off noise like the.

But yes, I was gonna mention that. Yes, it works, though.

But it works. It's so sincere and it's just delightful. I didn't even think about it being like a shower jam, but it would be delightful in the shower.

Yeah, well, yeah, again, it's just one of those things that. It often becomes dance music for me in the shower. I don't know what it is. I don't dance. I don't sing in the shower. You know, obviously I'm gonna go ahead and recommend you don't dance in the Sour shower, because that sounds like a major slip hazard. But I'm not your dad. Do what you want. But, yeah, it's. It's incredible instrumentation. And I don't know who did the remixes. I don't know who's behind any of that synth sound. I don't even know if. If Eric Simone was involved. I hope he was, but obviously he wrote the songs to begin with, so a lot of it still comes through. But it sounds epic. So I think we're just about gonna wrap this up.

Yeah, that's about it for today. That was very interesting stuff from both of you. Very different albums, but they're all good in their own way. I would urge everybody to check all of these out at least once and tell me if it's good or not. Please, I want to know if I gave a good recommendation or not.

Come to the record club and tell us.

Come to the record club and tell us. Yes. Yeah, actually, you should do that.

Bring weird music, strange music.

Absolutely. We meet twice a month. You can check out our schedule and as well as past podcast episodes, playlists, themes, anything you'd ever need will all be on our website, which will be linked with the show. We are welcoming to anybody at all, really. Even if you've never touched a record before, you never even bought one, never

even thought about it, never heard music, Please come.

Yes, I'd like to meet someone who's never heard music before. Just to introduce him to some really, really weird stuff, to see what happens. But that's the place for it. All you have to do to come in is just be willing to expand your horizons musically and, you know, share your own music with other people. It's a really great place, really wonderful group of people. We would be happy to have you if you come in.

Yeah.

But that does sum it up for today, I think. Thanks for tuning in. We'll see you all next time. Bye bye.

Bye bye.

Love you.

Hakuna Matata.

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