00:00:00 Sana: Let's be honest. Leadership gets romanticized. There's vision, there's strategy, big critical decisions. But then, you know, listeners, the real test of leadership usually looks smaller. Let me describe you. It looks like the email you didn't reply to because you didn't know what to say. The team tension, you keep hoping it will just sort out itself. The meeting where you smiled but then it kind of fell for you. Like, you know, tight and heavy. The moment you realize you're are not tired from work, but you are tired from holding yourself together. Today, on this episode of the Healing Horizons podcast, we are talking about what shows up and when leadership gets hard. The unexamined patterns, the old stories, the identity stuff we carry into rooms and call professionalism. And we are going with someone who works with leaders at the real edge of responsibility. When it's messy, when it's human, and when it matters.

00:01:20 Sana: So welcome back, listeners to Healing Horizons, which is a space where we explore the inner work behind the outer life. Because oddly, healing isn't only personal, it becomes a culture. And I'm your host and my guest today are with Amina, a leadership development specialist, Facilitator and founder who helps founders and senior leaders lead from the inside out. Now, let me tell you listeners, I created the High Potential Talent Summit, which is an annual leadership development event for senior leaders navigating modern leadership realities. And in twenty twenty three, she was awarded an MBE for services to further education in the creative industries. Before this chapter, Ruth founded and led Diva Apprenticeship Apprenticeships, growing it from a desk under her stairs in a nationally recognized organization partnering with brands like Hear Me Out, Universal Music, the BBC, Sony Music, CNN and Viacom CBS. And she's known for practical, calm, thoughtful facilitation style and for creating spaces where leaders slow down. They have clarity. They think clearly and navigate complex decisions with integrity. So listeners, let's begin and welcome to Healing Horizons. And I'm really, really honored to have you here with us.

00:02:58 Arit Eminue: Thank you for having me. I'm really looking forward to this conversation.

00:03:03 Sana: Totally, totally. And, you know, um, I mean, this is such a huge dilemma for, for, for anyone who is in the leadership position. I mean, especially for someone who, you know, sometimes there are opportunities or there are, there are occurrences and events where someone has to get into that leadership position without any any training, without any support on that. I mean, you know, they have to figure it out. Then many may think that it's a test. They may look at it from a perspective of that, you know, this is a test. This is an exam for you. You have to figure it out and you have to pass it with flying colors. But then there are people, there are, you know, mentors, guides, colleagues, peers who would definitely look at this empathetically and help them. So I'm very happy that you are bringing up this conversation.

00:04:00 Arit Eminue: Yeah, I Yeah, I agree. I think leadership starts long before we assume that positional power within or that or that proverbial seat in an organization, it starts with yourself long before it kind of reaches the the boardroom if you want. And I think in my experience, when people, you know, often hear the word, um, burnout or just feeling overwhelmed, we usually look at external factors like, you know, maybe it's our workload, you've got too many meetings, there's just too many pressures. You've got too many responsibilities and you feel overstretched and overwhelmed. And of course, all of that can be true. Um, and in my experience, both personally and working with leaders, it's not always just about volume. Sometimes it's about identity. It's about who's showing up when leadership feels hard. And that in how we react in those moments is largely informed by some of the patterns that we formed long before we ever had a team or we ever had, um, a title or a business. And those can be patterns that have helped us to survive and we haven't questioned them since then. Um, but I think in my work with leaders, it's leadership is one of the things that has a way, I guess, of revealing what we haven't healed. And that's what really Underpins grace, grit, and gratitude, which is both a leadership framework and, um, just a way of looking at how leadership informs how you show up in the workforce. So it's about separating the practical aspects of leadership, the nuts and bolts of the technical job aspects of it to actually what's, what's going on internally and physiologically that's having an impact on, on how we show up. So for example, I grew up in the northeast of England. Mhm. Um, born to Nigerian immigrant parents. Um, on paper, there was a lot of stability. My mom worked for the National Health Service in the United Kingdom, and my father worked in finance. We had a nanny. There was structure, but that wasn't the full story. Where I grew up in the northeast, there weren't really welcoming if you look like me. So racism wasn't abstract. It was a very daily occurrence that I felt so it was environmental. It was very much in the air. And so when you grow up feeling othered and when rejection becomes familiar, you don't consciously sit down and say, I'm going to develop a coping strategy. You just you just adapt. Right? And for me, that adoption became fierce independence. It became emotional toughness, it became defensiveness. And it became a belief that if I didn't rely on anyone, I wouldn't be disappointed. Um, and I guess what I didn't realize at that time was that those, um, patterns, if you want, were forming something quite powerful, which is grit and grit is more than resilience to me. It's like you're in an engine. What keeps you moving when there's no one clapping for you? There's no safety net and no guarantee it will work. And when you're in a leadership position, especially if you're a founder, it's what fuels you in your earlier years to set up your business. You know, you've often got no roadmap, especially if you don't have inherited wealth. And for me, I had no connections in the creative industry. It was all just vision and drive. So that grit worked because it helped me build partnerships with major organizations in film, TV and music. It helped me raise funding. It led to awards that led to recognition. So from the outside, people would say that I was confident. But on the inside, it was more of a survival energy channeled into productivity. And so I think when I, you know, especially when I'm coaching leaders, is to really start to think about what are the things that are really fueling you and are they actually serving you in the role where you are? Whatever has what, what the fuel that took you to get to where you are. Is it going to be, is it what you need to take you further? Either, because grit is like a brilliant. It's brilliant in the startup phase. When you're building something that doesn't exist. But when you move from building something to leading people, grit alone isn't enough. It can actually start to cause damage. And I learned that as my organization began to grow, so I was still leading from that fierce independence. I used to say I'm fiercely independent. Yeah. Um, but those same behaviors were now shaping my team. So I didn't delegate properly because I believed, you know, I could do things myself. I didn't really share my plans enough because I was afraid of failure. I held too much in my own head. And when things went wrong, I reacted quite quickly and sometimes defensively, and not because I was malicious, but because I was wired for threat. And so, you know, are we all have what is called our reticular activating system. It's the Ras. It's like our brain's natural filtering mechanism and like an internal algorithm, if you like. So it quietly influences what we prioritize, how we react, which risks are going to feel too much in which decisions might feel safer than they actually are. And we're wired like that just because our brain can't process everything at once. And so our Raas decides what gets our attention and what, you know, can quietly fade into the background. So in simple terms, our brain is constantly asking, what do I need to pay attention to in order to stay safe here? And it draws on your lived experience. Yeah. How you've been treated, what's worked, what's backfired. And it can collide with external markers like authority, power, money, reputation. So you learn. You know, this is what the world looks like for someone like me. And I think part of, you know, I'm packing. What's going on beneath is recognizing what some of those patterns are. Um, when you were in that, in your kind of your early, early years, because, and there's usually you find markers. So for me, the tipping point came when I hired someone during a stressful time. They just weren't the right fit. Um, and at the end of probation, I, I ended the contract respectfully and I added a little bit, you know, additional couple of months salary, but, um, the chat didn't take it very well. He sent an old staff email, not just expressing his frustration, but also outlining feedback about me. So things people had said privately and it was deeply uncomfortable and I felt very exposed. Um, but after the embarrassment subsided, something else started to surface. So what he had written down is what I already knew but hadn't really confronted him, so I wasn't regulating myself well under pressure. I was holding too much control. I was unintentionally creating tension. But for me, this was a time when I could really start to do something about it. And I think this is where the grace aspect steps in. You know, it's about power under control. It's about the ability to pause when you react. It's also about the ability to show compassion to yourself as a leader and recognize you don't know everything and you're not supposed to know everything. Hence the reason why you you have a team. So, you know, it's starting to look at that emotional regulation.

00:12:05 Sana: HMM. It's it's quite, quite, um, I'm really first of all, appreciate um, you Arab because and I don't even remember how many times I have repeated this on so many conversations that I do through all of the podcasts here, especially with leaders and, and founders and entrepreneurs that, you know, for being vulnerable. And I'm not painting any kind of negative picture here, listeners. And I believe that vulnerability is not weakness, but there is much in vulnerability. The way that you are sharing your journey here, and it's not about the work or the leadership or the style, but then how there is a there is a story behind that. There is an origin behind that. And if I can let me see if I can, you know, put words to my thoughts because a lot, lot of thoughts, you know, they are flooding my mind right now. But we can begin with something which I've observed, um, that, um, Especially multicultural, you know, leaders who are malikj. They have, uh, they are exposed to different cultures. Um, unfortunately, either through their, their upbringing and origin or maybe, uh, they are, uh, you know, working with multiple teams in different countries, even they are also, you know, uh, moving to different countries they're worked in, they're physically or maybe virtually, they have a different lens to look at, you know, especially these aspects when it comes to people. There's a very different kind of, you know, approach in there. It's more empathetic. It's more inclusive because they do understand that if I have gone through struggles in whichever capacity I've gone through this person, they are going or they might have gone through that same. So let me approach The empathetic lens here, not just a singular, you know, direct approach in there.

00:14:23 Arit Eminue: Yeah, I agree. And I think sometimes people, you know, can misconstrue vulnerability as being something that's soft and like, it's weak and it's, oh, I don't want to be like that. But to me, and it can be really culturally specific, right? Because, you know, in some cultures, it's to be embraced. It's, you know, this is so important, but in others, it's just we just don't do that. But to me, it's, it's just if you're going to reframe it in, in so that you can lean into it, then just look at it as acknowledging where you've come from. It doesn't mean in showing compassion to yourself for that. It doesn't mean that you're, you're, um, there's anything wrong in that or it's a sign of weakness. In fact, I think it allows you to take more personal responsibility and start to create a future in a way that works for you. So that's the way that I look at it. And I also think if it really is stuck in your past pain from becoming someone else's present problem. You know, because it's not your team's responsibility to do that. And, and I think when you then shift inward when conflict arises or when whatever is actually being triggered for you there, you can, you can then take a pause and start to think, well, actually, you know, I have an opportunity to make a different choice in this moment, you know, because some of the beliefs that shape how we lead. I often look at them like newsletters that we subscribe to over time. So some we actively chose, some we were opted into without realizing, and some we signed up for simply because at the time they helped us to survive. So that might be for me. It was often I need to work twice as hard, or if I make a mistake, I'm going to be in trouble or if I. It's quicker if I just do it myself. You know, sometimes these messages can land in the inbox of our thinking, and we don't even question them. And but they're not facts. They're just familiar. And the problem is that we can often mistake familiarity for truth, especially when we're under pressure. And so in and we know that, you know, that, uh, Russ operates a little bit like if you see, if you decide that I'm going to buy a yellow car, all of a sudden you start to see yellow cars everywhere. And that's do you know what I mean? And that's the same with the belief once it feels familiar. Our reticular activation system will just bring to mind evidence that supports it. And accuracy is totally irrelevant. It's just looking for information that fits the story our nervous system already knows. And so Self-leadership begins when you start to notice what you've subscribed to. And that's where vulnerability comes in. It's actually saying, actually, you know, when this belief arrives, it doesn't necessarily mean you have to open it. It just means you have to pause. And by pausing, I mean, if you are like my go to question, for example, when I find myself sliding into fight or flight mode, or the thought of having a hard conversation is, are you responding to the person in the room or to a memory every time you weren't heard, respected, or supported? And more often than not, it's the latter. Yeah. And that's the moment when you can start to really question and subscribing from beliefs that are no longer serving you, because our body often keeps the score longer than our mind does. So that first step to noticing what's going on for you physiologically. So what's going on for you in your body, not just cognitively, which is in your mind is really important. And there's a really, you know, practical ways we can do that. And that just often means, you know, taking a few deep breaths or breathing in for four and then exhaling for six seconds and doing that until your nervous system feels settled. And often the one question you need to ask yourself is when you do feel settled or say to yourself, is I am safe here? Yeah, because it can often be about safety and that can be linked to, to, you know, past patterns. And I say that as in a simple statement to say is because often when we're triggered, we can be in high pressured environments. You can walk into a room or walk onto a stage or whatever it is you're doing, and you don't have time to sit down and go, oh, which belief is working here? So just that simple. Inhale. Inhale for four. Exhale for six. Do it a couple of times. You'll notice that your shoulders will start to drop. Your jaw will will will unclench. And your first word is I am safe. And then you have a choice as to how you're going to react or respond rather in that moment rather than react. But it's not a weakness to to acknowledge, you know, your history if you want. You know, that's what it is. It's your history.

00:19:25 Sana: Exactly. I, I definitely second that. And, um, one thing one also thought that came to my mind is, you know, uh, when you were, um, saying that how, um, kind of just to, to distance yourself, you numbed yourself, you know, like that resilience, that grit, that feeling of, you know, having that control because you were not delegating at that time, because you thought, I'm delegating, I'm giving away a chunk of my power. Oh, personal. It was not anything related to that specific person or, or team member who was handling. But it was kind of within you. Only that that was your that was your, your brain's way of keeping you safe at that time. So sometimes, you know, the resilience, that word is so thrown around in different meanings that it, it completely loses its essence, that it doesn't have to mean that you keep going on and on and on without being aware or acknowledging that, you know, there is a disconnect in there. Something is not aligning with what exactly I want. Or maybe, you know, you don't even know who you exactly are and why you are here, what you are. And these three questions are so huge. So, I mean, I was on another conversation with the guest, you know, we were talking about these three questions. And, um, I kind of was thinking after that, um, episode that if somebody asks me who I am, I take time to answer that.

00:21:06 Arit Eminue: You didn't have time to answer that?

00:21:09 Sana: No, no, I take a lot of time. Somebody asked me because I'm yet to figure out it completely.

00:21:16 Arit Eminue: Yeah, but I think sometimes who you are, I mean, it's it's quite a big question, you know, and who you are. Can I guess it's who you are at your core, you know, like, because that generally is how you're anchored. So who you are, like looking at the things that you value beyond your, you know, are the immediate things like our family and friends, there will be other things that you value. So for me, my faith is very important to me. That's a strong anchor. Um, yeah, I think who you are is such a it's such a big question. But like for me, I always look at what's anchoring me. So my faith is very, so my faith, it's very important to me, um, wanting to have a sense of purpose to my life has always been very fortunate. It's been very important to me. And so being able to be of service feeds into who, who I am. Um, so I always say to people, look at the things that you really value and what would you do if you were to wake up tomorrow and you had all the money in the world, you were fully resourced. How would your life look differently? Because I think when you start to look at it like that, you then the core of who you are starts to come through. Um, so it's less about the material or the relationships because some people say, oh, I'm a mom. I'm this and that. But before you were a mom, you were somebody else. Before you were somebody's husband or somebody's wife or partner. You were somebody else. So that's not that's part of, you know, a role that you play, but it's not the sum total of who you are. Um, but to go to your, your, your, your comment around resilience, because I think people think about resilience is resilience alone isn't enough. Resilience can everywhere in terms of, you know, survival capacity that I talked about earlier, you know, enduring racism takes resilience. Adapting to rejection takes resilience, uh, navigating instability, building a business from scratch takes resilience. Um, but the, it's more you want what I'm, what I'm trying to, I guess, trying to get people to think about resilience in a different way is it can be adaptive. So the ability to withstand adversity without Necessarily collapsing. You know, it can it can sometimes feel like like. A bit like grit. But in leadership, you know, resilience can be emotional regulation as well. It can also be a way of, of, um, encouraging people to, to get things done, not just in that, in that fight or flight way, but resilience without self-awareness is what damages culture. MM. You know, if you and it can damage, it can feel like control. So you want. Yeah. So it's, it has to be integrated with self-awareness and regulation for it to balance itself out. And all because the things that I talked about, you know, earlier about, you know, having some grit to really go out there and into and into engage people to pitch, to sell. All of that takes resilience and it takes grit. And those things are good. We need leaders who can do that. It's when they're off balance that they become a problem. When it falls into overperforming. It becomes a problem when it's heading towards burnout, it becomes a problem. So it's about making sure you bring back that balance, which comes from self-awareness.

00:25:01 Sana: Absolutely, absolutely. Um, I think, uh, this is, uh, the beginning to such a beautiful journey of, um, you know, revealing, revealing the book of your life for all of our listeners here on the weekend, we began our journey with Healing Horizons. But as a host, I would love to have you on all of our other shows because it's not just about, um, leadership or about work, but it's about us being human. Um, so, uh, I'm very happy that you gave, uh. I think the breathing breathing is such a beautiful step to begin with, especially box breathing or, you know, uh, forging inhales and six exhales. I think it's a very, very, it's easy. It's, it's easy. But then, you know, and that is kind of the paradox in there that we all are breathing, but we are not breathing consciously. Ah, I appreciate that you shared that to begin with. So now if our listeners, they would like to further explore into this and they would like to reach out to you, what would be the easiest way?

00:26:13 Arit Eminue: The best way is to you can find me on LinkedIn, on the LinkedIn platform. Um, or you can find me on my website, which is just my name dot com. Um, and yeah, connect with me then I'd love to hear how you have received what Sandra and I have discussed on the podcast.

00:26:37 Sana: So to all the listeners, yes, all the links and details will be mentioned in the show notes. So find them attached along with this episode on whichever platform you are tuning into your Healing Horizons podcast today. And, um, thank you so much. Um, because, uh, if I can summarize the core of here today, what we just talked about, I think it doesn't just make leadership sound better, but it makes it sound truer because I think the hardest part of leadership isn't the workload. It is the moment you realize that I am leading with my unhealed parts, too. Oh, and I think that's the brave thing. It is is isn't pretending you don't have them, but it's examining them. You know, so that they don't they don't quietly run you or run the room. So thank you so much.

00:27:30 Arit Eminue: You're welcome. And thank you for making it so much easier.

00:27:36 Sana: And to all the listeners out there. If something in this episode hit you, if you recognize yourself in a pattern or you felt a quiet, that's me, take that seriously, but gently, not as a reason to judge yourself as a reason to get curious. And if you want more conversations like this, honest, practical, and human, follow healing horizons. Following the show means you'll catch future episodes on identity boundaries, healing, leadership, burnout, and the real inner life behind performance. And I'd be very happy that you'll be a part of a community that chooses tech over pretending. Until next time, this is your host signing off. Keep tuning and take care. Thank you.