E033 - Overcoming the Fear of Leaving a Toxic Relationship, Rebuilding Self-Esteem & Learning to Be With Your Inner Child (client story)

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Speaker: [00:00:00] A lot of women I know that are struggling with these same choices, do I get divorced? I'm scared, and the bullied, ugh, I have to start all over again. I didn't have to start over again. I just had to be free. Again,

Speaker 2: welcome to Heartbreak to Wholeness, the podcast helping you heal from the mind fuck of narcissistic relationships, and move towards the secure, peaceful woman you want to become.

We will explore all of the tools that you need to get through your grief, to move past those all the alone forever fears, and rebuild your confidence so you can move forward in healthy relationships as your full self, never to get sucked into the narcissistic spell. Again, I am your host b Brie Wolta Relationship Clarity Coach and EFT Certified practitioner.

Let's dive in. Welcome to this episode. This is a very special episode for you where I am interviewing one of my former clients, Laura Herman. Laura's story really offers a lot of hope and inspiration for anybody [00:01:00] who is feeling really intense fear around leaving their partner. Battling this belief that if they leave, if they get a divorce or if they're single again, that they are there, therefore a failure.

We talk about the difference between loneliness and being alone and how sometimes we can feel the most alone inside unhealthy relationships. And she shares how she transcended her fear of divorce and the inner child work that we were able to do together, which allowed her to finally love herself first.

Now be able to experience a healthy relationship. It's so cool as her coach to see her really believing to her core that she deserves to be treated well, which has shifted her picker to healthy men as opposed to men that she could fix or save, and has allowed her to show up in her now healthy relationship as the healthiest version of herself for her partner.

It's so, [00:02:00] so good, and I'm so proud of her. It is such a pleasure to have her on the podcast. And remember to stick around to the end of the episode where we will pull an Oracle card that will offer you a specific message that you can take with you to use in your healing. Welcome, Laura, to the podcast.

It's so nice to have you here. Thank you. So, it's such a treat for me to be able to have former clients on the podcast. What really resonated for me about your story is the success that you're having in a now healthy relationship after the work that we did to help you move through the not so healthy relationship.

Speaker: Not so healthy. What an understatement, but yes, thank you. Yeah.

Speaker 2: Yeah. So give the listeners kind of a good understanding of what, what brought you to me in the first place? Where were you in your relationship?

Speaker: I think we have to go a little deeper than that. So, um, I will just tell everybody that I have 18 years in recovery [00:03:00] from alcohol and certain substances, and so I always grew up a little bit with some kind of un.

Healed trauma and different things. And when I got sober, there was a lot of work around staying sober and kind of putting your next step forward, but not a lot of work on why I got to the where I was. And so, um, you know, I did the AA thing, I did lots of therapy and I realized though that there were pieces inside of me that were still missing.

And there was a lot of insecurity inside of me, a lot of sort of people pleasing, needing to prove certain things to my family. And my. Close friends and, and everybody, you name it. And what I often found or always found was that I was constantly picking relationships where I didn't really need to show up in a vulnerable way, even though I wanted to desperately, I felt as though I wasn't worth my vulnerability.

I, it wasn't worth, um, [00:04:00] anything to anybody, and that it was something that I sort of felt bad for having. So in a weird way, I'd put myself in these positions where I was always the helper. I was always choosing men. Maybe because I saw that they needed help, maybe because I realized they weren't fully healthy yet, and it would sort of allow me to take care of that or help them.

But yet I also found myself frustrated with that because of course, I wanted to share my life with someone. I wanted to share my vulnerabilities. But there was no space for that because of the people I chose. So it almost wasn't their fault. It was as if I was coming into it thinking, oh, we're gonna change them and then they're gonna be able to help me because they're gonna be full.

But of course it doesn't work that way. And I will also let you, and if you just, now I've been married twice. Um, my first marriage was before I got sober. And then once I did get sober, I sort of realized very quickly we were not meant to be. Then, you know, after years of going through recovery, I think I was about five [00:05:00] or six years sober when I met my ex-husband.

Um, I sort of thought I had it all figured out. And so when I met him, there was a lot of really great stuff. He was fun, we enjoyed each other, but when it started getting into the real stuff, the family stuff, he had a ton of trauma and a ton of kind of honestly like behavioral health issues and his own substance use disorder, which was.

Alleviated later in our relationship, or not alleviated, but um, actually pushed forward in our later relationship to be a real problem that I tried to look the other way on. I just kind of assumed like, oh, it'll get better. Unbeknownst to me at the time, things don't get better, they get worse. And having a partner does not heal a person.

It's inside work. And so that's kind of my background. So when I came to see you. I had gotten to the point in my marriage where I realized I could not do it anymore. I was now living with somebody that was an extremely far [00:06:00] down alcoholic. Somebody that started drinking day, drinking at, you know, 10 o'clock in the morning, really didn't have a lot of push to live a good life.

So in other words, like everything was victimization. It was often then shown with anger, intimate, deep intimacy issues, um, you know, just to be fully. Honest, we did not have any intimate relationship for six out of, and it became very clear even on our wedding night that this was gonna be an issue. And I don't wanna bad mouth him, but it just continued to get worse.

And the more that I offered help and tried to provide, I'm an action person, so I'm always like, Hey, why don't you try this? Let's do this. Why don't you see a career coach or see a therapist? It was just getting worse and there was more anger towards me. Which was kind of ironic 'cause I was working in behavioral health at the time, and so I would be all day, you know, working, saving lives, getting people into treatment, and the person that was closest to me in my own house was literally drinking [00:07:00] at himself and at me and at his family and all of the other stuff.

So I called you when it got to the point where I realized I really needed to make a change, but I had a lot of fear and I think at the time I was 51. And I didn't wanna start over again. I was afraid that I had failed once again. I was afraid that I could not start over again and that I was gonna be stuck in this situation for the rest of my life.

And all the work that I was doing for myself was making me realize this more, but then I was stuck in this situation that was just bringing me down. So that's when I called you. Yeah,

Speaker 2: yeah. Yeah. Thank you for sharing. I know there's a lot of, lot of components and layers that. Create the outcome of being with the person who's ultimately dysfunctional or or an unhealthy relationship.

Yeah, and one of the things that I remember on one of our first, first calls was you really just wanted to find resolve, and I think that was the word that you used, where it's like, resolve [00:08:00] on the next step and wanted to feel confident in, if I'm gonna leave or if I'm gonna, you know, divorce, then I wanna feel a hundred percent confident that that's the right choice.

Coupled with. A fear of being alone because you had also been coupled Right. In marriage or with a person for the majority of your adult life. Yep. And I remember us talking about the, the difference of being alone versus lonely. Yep.

Speaker: So it's interesting because I am, what many people now call an introvert extrovert.

So I actually love being alone, but I was putting a lot of onus onto having a relationship to sort of. Not be lonely, but what I found was in working with you is that it was an inside thing. So I could be with all my friends and for, you know, a few hours feel great, but then when I started thinking about my stuff again and my insecurities, I would start feeling [00:09:00] lonely again.

Yet when I was on the best of times for myself, I could be alone and feel great. So it was, it was as if. The more that I was in a bad relationship, the more lonely I became, even though I was not physically alone. And why I came to you really was to get to that next step and, and what happened with you was that I started actually finding myself, and that was, I think, the testament to you and your work that you do that I want to put forward to people.

I did not come to you expecting that my whole life would change. I came to you expecting that I would have some resolve in what I was supposed to do in my marriage. I got that resolve with you, but I got so much more with that. I got confidence in myself, inner child, healing a connection to myself like I've never had before.

A feeling of finally being like honestly comfortable in my own skin. Being able to [00:10:00] look every night with gratitude at every single day and realize that even on on the bad days, I mean, I've had some bad days. I had a flood in my house. My dog ran away for three days. It hurt. It was awful. It was traumatic, but I was okay because I knew that like this shall pass as much as the good times pass.

Right. And when I look back on sort of my own anxieties and different things prior to coming to you, it all came back to the same step, which was like sort of this inner child not feeling good anymore. And, and you and I went back with my inner child and we looked at sort of when I started feeling a certain way and when I started feeling insecure.

You, you, I still have this ugly picture of myself. I think it's ugly, but it's all beautiful of me. In seventh grade, which was like my worst physical year with this ugly sweater with triangles all over it and learning how to just embrace that, that wonderful little girl and, and realizing that it's gonna be [00:11:00] okay.

And so I was able to manifest in everything in relationships. So I was able to end my marriage and I did so in a healthy way where we had. There were moments, of course, 'cause I was dealing with a slightly unhealthy person. There were moments of conflict and different things like that, but I was able to set my boundaries and be kind, not react too strongly.

And so it went much smoother than anyone could have expected. And so now I'm very happily divorced for many, many months now and have settled into my new life. And it was, there was a scary time where. A lot of women I know that are struggling with these same choices, do I get divorced? I'm scared. There's always that I'm scared.

And then I realized like what we're really scared about is the perception of people looking at us and saying, oh, you must be a problem if this happened. But it's not that. It's that we made choices based on who we were at the time, and now we've grown out of them, and that's [00:12:00] okay. And the bullied, Ugh, I have to start all over again.

I didn't have to start over again. I just had to be free again. And like that freedom brought me even more opportunities and like just more grounding and, and feeling confident about things. And you know, I'd mentioned you helped me in so many ways. We did this exercise one day and I started realizing that the relationships I was creating with men was the same thing I was doing in my career.

So while I was successful, I wasn't strong enough to go all the way with it. And now I own my business and I just actually. Became accepted, a CEO position at a company, and I'll be able to do both for a long time and do what I love and my passion. So it's like,

Speaker 2: it's everywhere, all of it. You unlocked this freedom in so many different aspects of your life.

Yeah. And I love how you, how you speak of it as a freedom and not a having to start over. It's like you, you freed yourself from the thing that you had been using to [00:13:00] confirm beliefs or live in a specific narrative. Then you have this beautiful opportunity to, to write the new next part of the story without all of the, the energy holding you to the past one.

Speaker: Yep. Yeah. I also realized that you're never too old to do that. So like I said, I was saying like, oh my gosh, I'm 50 years old. I can't believe this is happening again. Like I went through the, the feelings because we cycle and, and my cycle was like, I'm doing this again. I did this again. I'm a failure. And then I realized that like, that's okay.

Some of us, it takes us a little longer. It also takes us longer to ask for the help that we need. So, you know, some people are where I am now at 20. God bless them. I think it's amazing. But I also think that every single lesson that I went through has brought me to where I am today. So I don't regret any of it.

Speaker 2: I love that you are open about your age and, and the number of marriages you've had. There's so much shame around that, like you just spoke of where, when I first started this [00:14:00] business, I assumed I'd be working with 20 and 30 year olds, just kind of because of my age. But my clientele is 40, 50, 60, and I have some 30 year olds.

But it is the, the women in the 40, 50, 60 year span that's kind of like, I can't keep doing this shit and why am I continuing to do this shit? I'm miserable and I've been doing it for my whole life, and like something's gotta give. Yeah. So to have the courage to do that is, is incredible.

Speaker: And I, and I think you just hit it right there.

It's like I keep doing the same thing. I need help. You get to a point in your own life where things are pretty good, except for Right, there's this one thing, and then you start realizing that when you really look at it, and again, through what you brought me through this, where I saw it, there's, there's a, a symptom there.

It's the same thing. You're, you're doing the same thing in all of these different aspects of your life. Whether it be friendships, career, family, couplings, you know, whatever it may be, it [00:15:00] all stems from that same stuff, and it came from me, was like, I was just always trying to prove that I could be all these things, but yet.

Who decided for me that that meant being married or who decided for me that meant working for someone else, or who decided for me that I had to be what I thought my family expected from me. And again, I put a lot of this on myself, and that was the other piece of it. It's like. You know, yes. I came in a certain culture.

You know, I'm a nice Jewish girl from New York. Everybody around me was marrying doctors and lawyers and having two kids. I never wanted children. I never wanted to marry a doctor, a lawyer. I wanted to. Now I realize I just wanted to marry someone that was supportive of who I am and allows me to be who I am, doesn't matter where they came from.

I'm in a relationship now with a wonderful man with completely different background to the point where like, I love it. He doesn't even. Smoked pot. He's never smoked pot. Which for somebody that's in recovery, it's [00:16:00] like, no. Um, he doesn't like to drink. He's had, we've been together for about four or five months and he's had two drinks because he just, yeah.

And I'm like, what? You know, like this is, I always grew up thinking like I had to be with people that really got my background and like that's where the connection would be. And I remember even with my ex-husband, 'cause he came up very similarly as I did, I was like, oh, we have that in common. That's a nice way to start and, and there is of course that's a nice thing, but not if it's then surrounded by unhealthy.

Speaker 3: Yeah.

Speaker: Yeah. So instead I want someone that grew up in the Midwest, amazing ethics and core and everything else. And it's the best thing for me because that's who I always really was. You know, even though I grew up on the East coast and everything else. I always worked really hard for what I wanted. I always wanted to make my own way, and so to have somebody that has a drive like that and to be able to look at life the right way versus kind of a [00:17:00] spoiled silver spoon thing, that's what I wanted.

Yeah. So really, it's really cool.

Speaker 2: Yeah. And do you remember your, your shift point that you had when you were, you finally realized that you did deserve. Someone to treat you well when you deserve someone that you didn't have to fix or run after or try to get sober, but that could just be there for you in a, in a more 50 50 kind of partnership way.

Speaker: Yeah, I, I, I think it was that same day it was that journaling that we did, and I can't, there's one day where we had like, I think it was three or four columns, and I'm trying to remember exactly what it was, but that's when I had that moment where I was like. Who am I trying to prove something to?

Speaker 3: Yeah.

Speaker: With all of my choices, it's always about having a male approval that that's what it was. And I remember thinking to myself and, and of course in Dad, I love you. It has nothing to do with you. But it was always about like, will [00:18:00] my dad be proud of me? Well, so, so I had this like need to fulfill that a man sees value in me in order for me to feel valuable and.

There was a click in working with you. It was that in the tapping too. And I remember there was one day I was like bawling and I was tapping and doing all sorts of like really deep work and we were, it was inner child work and it was me tapping and, and my gosh, she would ask me a question that just made me cry so much and I was in a funky place with a divorce and everything else and it just hit me one day that like there's only one person that I have to really make sure is happy and is loved and that's.

Little Laura, you know, and then once she started feeling more loved, it's as if there was like a blossoming inside of me.

Speaker 3: Yeah.

Speaker: And literally I walk around and people say to me like, you glow.

Speaker 3: Yeah.

Speaker: Like I was on a, I was on an airplane a couple weeks ago and there was a, a [00:19:00] flight attendant that was sitting across from me and people were coming on and we were like making a joke and she was like.

There's just something about you. You're just one of those people. I wish you were like all of our customers that came on here. You literally, you just glow. And I was like, my God, that is like the nice thing. And I've been hearing that a lot from people. And it's because you literally helped me blossom.

Not about my looks. It's about like there's an inner energy and the strength about me now that, that people see and, and I have confidence and when I'm talking to people, it just seems to exude and I think. That's where things really started changing for me when we got into that inner child work and we looked through kind of what all my crisis points were at the time and realizing all I needed to do is fix this and love her.

I mean, that's the big part, right? Giving her the love that she didn't get or she didn't, she may have got it, but she didn't hear.

Speaker 3: Yeah.

Speaker: Um, and making sure that she heard it every day from me.

Speaker 2: That compassion [00:20:00] really shifts our ability to be with our inner child or be with any of our parts that are hurting.

If we're judging them, we can't be compassionate with them. Exactly. You being able to look at that picture and be like, what a adorable little girl this is. Even though like not your ideal of what you wanted to look like at that stage, like that's such a heart opening experience. It is

Speaker: and like, and it's interesting that I.

Hopped into that picture because I didn't even know I had it. It was one of those pictures where I was like, oh gosh, throw those out. You know? Yeah. And then I found it while you and I were doing work, and it's like right when I was hitting puberty and my hair started getting curly and I didn't know what to do with it yet.

And my like, I just didn't know what to do with myself. And that's when all of my stuff started really happening. Like before that I always thought of myself as really smart. I had lots of things I loved to do. I had friends, I was creative. Then that little girl started morphing into a teenager and I lost it all.

Speaker 3: Yeah. [00:21:00] And

Speaker: I never got it back again until, until you, I mean, like it's really a miracle. It is.

Speaker 2: Yeah. If you go back to your, like, the reclaiming of the light, the, the visual that I get when I think about that is like when we reconnect with our inner child and can give that compassion, it's like we're giving ourselves this renewable energy from within.

Instead of reaching and needing it from men or needing it from a job or needing it from somewhere else, it's just like, it just flows within our cell and we're not, we're not leaking everywhere. And that's, that is a phenomenon that I experienced too when I got out of my toxic relationship where people are like, welcome back, like your lights back on.

And I'm like, how long was it off?

Speaker: You

Speaker 2: know,

Speaker: we get

Speaker 2: there eventually.

Speaker: Emotions when we're in those unhealthy relationships that we don't know how to quite get out of. And like I said, scared, you know, there's fear, there's next steps. There's all of that stuff. And I'm such an action [00:22:00] step, like planner too.

But there's something to be said for, we don't realize our light was turned off. Like I would go through life thinking I was doing okay, you know? Like I had lots of friends, people wanted to be around me. But that was only when I was out of the house. Like I didn't let anyone in the house. So it was never about him being a part of that life.

It was when I was alone. Yeah, yeah. So of course I was okay. But then when people started saying to me, wow, you're like different. Like, wow, you look great. You know? I was like so funny. 'cause it's literally just an inside job.

Speaker 2: Yeah. And when we're in the relationship, it's more like a dimmer switch. It like slowly starts to fade.

It's not a, it's not a jarring on and off. When we come out of it, it is that jarring turning back on. 'cause it's like, oh, there's no one here to suck this away from me and there's no one that I can give it away to. Which is the sort of the one of the beautiful things of being able to reclaim that power back for yourself.

Speaker: Absolutely.

Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah,

Speaker: [00:23:00] yeah.

Speaker 2: With all the fear that you were feeling and feeling like you were gonna be a failure, feeling the fear that you didn't know what the right decision was to make. What made you actually start doing the work? Like what made you say yes even despite all of the fear?

Speaker: Yeah, I, I think, well, you, you put me through a relationship detox, so, and it was, it was actually great timing for me 'cause I had gotten my ex into treatment so he, he physically wasn't here.

And I think when we started working together, he was here and then I got him into treatment and then I was able to start making these steps. And I think for me it was just the progress that I was seeing. 'cause again, I'm, I'm sort of a scientist inside, like I need to see that the experiment is working a little bit to be able to forward.

And so for me, I saw that each little step that I was taking, and not that it's a little step to get your ex-husband into treatment. Somebody who's treatment resistant to. A painful degree, but [00:24:00] you, you gave me the ability to say like, Hey, if you don't do this, I remember, 'cause I was up in Aspen and I had, he had called me drunk from Maine and I was doing a CA adult children of alcoholics at the same time, which is also kind of trauma work.

And I said, I have to do this now. I didn't plan on doing it. I was gonna wait until he got home and sit him down and say, look, you have to get into treatment. He had this night where he called me really drunk and just started pushing my buttons and this thing came over me and I was like, it's now. And it wasn't like a reactive thing, it was more just like all of a sudden the floodgate kind of opened for me and they were like, it's now.

And so I remember calling him the next day and saying, listen, I am not gonna do this anymore. You cannot come home until you figure out what's going. And of course I got the immediate reaction of the fu and dah dah. And then, fine, I'll go. I'm to a hotel. So he came back from Maine and he went to a [00:25:00] hotel 'cause I didn't want him in the house.

And I knew that I was leaving in a couple of days to go on this, this work trip. So I said to him, here's the deal. When I leave, you can come back to the house. You can either pack up your stuff and go. Or let me know and I'll come home, pack up my stuff. And I'd already found an out, you know, I'd already called my friend in California and said, can I stay in your your house for a little while?

I said, but I'm not gonna do this anymore. And especially when you're just sitting here and not taking any kind of help. Within like 24 hours of him coming back to Denver and being in a hotel, he called and said, okay, well I'll look at places. And I just stuck with my boundaries and it was scary because then I was in.

Colorado and Aspen, and I was, but I was with a bunch of people in recovery and the work for these programs that I was getting him into. And so they were a really nice support blanket as well. But that was when I started realizing that like, I think I can do this. And then there were setbacks, like when he came back from treatment, he had to come back and we had, I, I had worked [00:26:00] with his therapist and, and he'd realized for him that I wasn't just gonna let him back into my life.

I said, no, you still, we can't be together yet. You need to go and like get more help. And if that means you come back and take over the house and the Dons, which I did not want 'cause I wanted to be here, I said I support that. I said, or you can move to Maine and be there for a while. 'cause you just built this big, beautiful, multimillion dollar house in Maine.

I said, the choice is yours. I said, or the third choice is you travel around and find yourself. I said, but whatever it is, I'm not gonna be physically with you. And that was really hard because he victimized a lot.

Speaker 3: Yeah.

Speaker: And so I had to really set the boundaries with you on that. It's gonna be okay if he blames me and hates me, it's gonna be okay.

Because I had to be sure of myself and and feel like I was doing the right thing for me. And so, luckily he chose Maine, which was perfect, but he had to come home for like a day or two and pack up his stuff. [00:27:00] And he was really. It was uncomfortable to say the least. Um, and then I had to then file for divorce because he wouldn't get more help.

Speaker 2: Yeah. You being able to first identify what, what wasn't working and that it was at this like point of no return, right? That you had this thing came over you and was like, it's now. And from that point, it almost gives you the strength to be able to set the boundary because you know there's no more.

There's no more like wavering with yourself of, can I stay, can I deal with this longer? It's a hard line that you draw for yourself. It's like, we're only moving forward and what do I need to do to, to get resource to find the support in order to move forward.

Speaker: Yeah. And, and I was that also accountable, not just to myself, but to you, to my friends, because I have, you know, my, my best friend Jen call every single day We spoke.

I, I made the decision. Now, of course, if I'd been like, well, you know, [00:28:00] you guys wouldn't have broken up with me, but I, I felt like I'd come so far at that point that to then back down didn't make any sense because my heart already knew what the right decision was.

Speaker 2: Yeah. Despite the fear, I think that's such an important point for the women listening, that you can know what is right to do what you need to do, and you can be afraid of shit while you're doing it.

Speaker: Yeah, it was all very scary. I mean, it was, it was not for the weak of heart, let's just say that, because it was, it was a marriage, it was a life. I mean, I had a full life wrapped with this person. We were together for almost 10 years.

Speaker 3: We

Speaker: have dogs together. We have a house that we bought together. We have all of these different things, and I had to put down what my boundaries were gonna be and stick with them.

And I think that was the thing too. It's about setting boundaries and. Moving with them. Even when it's scary. And when it is scary, doing the tapping, talking to [00:29:00] Bre, talking to your friends and saying, I'm scared. It's okay to be scared. Life is scary. I mean, we do not live in a perfect ideal world anymore.

Maybe in the fifties it was ideal, imper, but every day is a little scary. So it's about trying to find the place where you can feel comfortable saying, yeah, I'm scared.

Speaker 2: Yeah.

Speaker: And, and walk through it.

Speaker 2: Sharing that out loud, right? I reference this a lot from the recovery community, but our secrets keep us sick.

And the more that we are living two lives like you, were okay with your friends and then not telling your friends kind of about what was happening at home. The more we're doing that, the farther we're splitting ourselves and the more isolated and more shame that we're feeling because of that, and it just compounds, it like spirals us into this deep dark hole by ourself.

Speaker: It makes you a bit of an imposter. So like for six years my friends were like, how's day? Oh, he's great. Everything's great. But all I was doing was hiding that, that we had no [00:30:00] intimacy whatsoever. And when I say intimacy, I don't even mean just sex. I mean all of it. Being able to have the hard conversations and meeting each other in the middle.

Um, holding hands, cuddling on the couch, uh, spooning in bed, talking, you know, all of those things to mirror intimacy. We didn't have any of that anymore. We had dogs between us when we slept. And it was very, I mean, if you look at it, it was a big metaphor. Like we did that on purpose. We have two, I have now two dogs.

One of them is 108 pounds, and one of them is depending on her weight that day, 85 to 95 pounds. And they would lie between us sleeping and. We didn't talk, you know, I mean, we would sometimes argue because I would ask for intimacy and, and he wasn't able to provide it and would then blame me, you know? So then also became sort of like an abusive thing where I'm not saying I was abused because I sort of let myself continue in this, but once I realized like, Hey, this is really not in chat anymore.[00:31:00]

Um, yeah, the, yeah, I had to put together, I had to put down the fear. I had to tell my close friends what was really going on. I had to tell you, I had to tell people close to me and just say, Hey, fess up. The reality is not everything's okay.

Speaker 2: Yeah. I remember having that same experience where you're in bed with your person, the ex, right.

And it's like, you're a million miles apart.

Speaker: I know

Speaker 2: that. Right? The comes in between the pillows in between, whatever's in between, but it's like I, I remember distinctly never feeling more alone than I did in that moment.

Speaker: That's it. That's where loneliness feels the hardest. Exactly. It's like when you are next to somebody that you have come to and thought that you were spending your days with and you feel complete loneliness.

That is true. Loneliness like, like being alone and being able to do and, and like I've been picking up my charcoals again and doing all this other stuff that I sort of like put to the side that's not lonely. I'm [00:32:00] alone when I'm doing it, but it just feels amazing.

Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm glad we're naming this because that's the number one.

If not number one, the top five reasons that women stay in relationships is that fear that they're gonna be alone forever. And it's like, look at how alone you are right now, though. But externally, people see you're coupled. People see you're married. Right? It's a kind of about the image and about the opinions, but if you get really honest with yourself, it's like how alone do you feel right now?

Right.

Speaker: And that is. The worst. Worst. And I, I sat in that for years. I just sat in it for years and it was like, there was just no turning it around, and I just let it happen because I was too afraid to do something because of all the fear. It's like, it's fear. Fear of the fear. It's like, it's like 16 layers of fear on top of it.

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 2: Yeah. Coming to the, the conclusion to leave, to set your boundaries, to ask for help, to start to be honest with people. It takes a [00:33:00] lot of fucking courage because there is so much fear and so much of your beliefs coming at you, so much of society's beliefs coming at you. It's, it really does take a lot of bravery and any woman who's confronted that, I have so much admiration for because it, it takes so much to get to that place.

Speaker: Yes.

Speaker 2: Yeah.

Speaker: Yeah, and I think what's really important too is that there's very big polarizing thoughts. It's either like. I'm stuck in this really bad marriage, or I need to be alone for the rest of my life and prove that I'm an independent woman. And, and I've also gone through that a lot, but I am an independent woman.

Speaker 3: Yeah. Gonna be brand still.

Speaker: Still love happiness and love and intimacy when it's healthy.

Speaker 3: Yeah.

Speaker: With right person, which doesn't mean it's all sunshine and roses. Like we all go through lums. We all have hard days. You know, our, our trauma from the past triggers sometimes, but it's about being able to. Be with somebody that you can talk about it with and say, [00:34:00] Hey, this is why that happened.

Let's work on this. Let's make this thing that we get closer around.

Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.

Speaker: And I think that's the really important thing. Or you can choose to never remain. That's fine too. Like, again, it doesn't, it doesn't matter. It just, it doesn't have to be this like grand slam epiphany of like, I'm better because I'm now a woman.

Hear me roar. And I'm never gonna let a man. Do this or that to me again. Well, there's also something you said for strength and vulnerability, right? And being able to be with somebody in the right way and be able to show up and be kind and loving and, and have that also help you blossom.

Speaker 3: Yes.

Speaker: Yes. Because all in it for the right reason and you're getting back what you deserve.

Speaker 2: Yeah. And really to have a healthy relationship, there has to be interdependence. With interdependence, you also have to have your own independence. Right? Totally. 'cause we can't a mesh anymore. We can't just become what the other person or acquiesce to everything, have to have our [00:35:00] own sense of self and our own, our own being that we're protecting.

How, how was that shift for you from going from the unhealthy dynamic into this new dynamic with your current partner? Um,

Speaker: I mean, I had a few. You know, trial and error and, and, and, but, but interestingly, all, all healthy enough, you know, so like, in other words, after the ex and I were like, you know, we've been separated for a while, and then so I started dating and then the divorce was finalized.

So I started seeing people, you know, fairly soon because to me, I hadn't been with him in so long and I was really craving that intimacy. Yeah. I had not had it for a very long time, and it was something that is very important to me, as I've said at numerous times. So I went into some relationships and some of them, um, just weren't totally right.

So like I was in a great relationship with somebody. Uh, when I say great, it was fun. There were a, there was a lot of positives to it, but then what happened [00:36:00] was I discovered that his background was making him become an avoidant in life. And while I'm still friendly with him and we have a great friendship relationship.

It couldn't be for me in a real relationship. And it was hard because like everything else was really great, you know? But I realized every time I needed something, his reaction was to sort of dismiss and run away.

Speaker 3: Yeah.

Speaker: And what I realized with my work is I need more than that. So instead of like stew it in and sitting in it, I had the hard conversation.

We had the hard conversation. I was like, look, I think we trigger each other. So as much as we can be friends and we get along and we really like each other, we can't be in a relationship together. And luckily this person is mature enough that he was like, yep, I agree. Let's do this. And we became friends.

There were other stops and starts, you know, I'm on online dating, so I had a few people that ended up being a little, um, and some that were maybe like not the right person, you know? So it all happened. And then I met Ed, who [00:37:00] is the person that I'm with now. And it was really refreshing. All of a sudden I was able to explain who I am, what I'm showing up as.

Um, the other thing is, is I'm a pretty successful woman and that's hard for a lot of men, and I think it scares a lot of men, and I think they compare themselves to me a lot. And so I often feel like what happens with that is that while I'm in a, what seemingly healthy relationship, sometimes because I'm so healthy, it becomes a problem.

And so. What I found was that I needed somebody that had a lot of his own interests. 'cause that was a other thing that was lacking with my ex, some that we can share. So like Ed loves baseball, he played baseball, he coaches baseball, he manages baseball teams. Well, I like baseball too. I may not know every stat, but I really enjoy going to a game and just the whole feeling of like being at a baseball game and there's just something very wholesome and very nice about it.

And so we can share that. He also has this hobby with trains and things. Well, that's not really [00:38:00] something that I understand. I'm, I'm learning about it. It doesn't mean I'm ever going to have it as a hobby, but I respect it and it's something that means a lot to him, and I think it's really cool that he has that.

Speaker 3: Yeah.

Speaker: I have a thing with true crime and psychology and serial killers and all of that, like after the jokes of, geez, am I gonna be murdered one day? He, you know, he respects the fact that I have a group of friends and we're really into that and the psychology behind it. And so he is gonna see this crazy new serial killer movie with me tomorrow night because.

Do that with me. And it's like, so it's, it's like we don't have to love everything exactly the same, but as long as we're compassionate about it and also love the fact that the other person loves it. Mm-hmm. That's healthy. Yes. Yes. We don't have to be together 24 7 doing everything. Like if he wants to go to a train show, great.

I'm gonna go to Crime Con with my friends, or I'll go with him and we'll do other things too. Yeah. So, so that's, I guess where I find the healthy part. Is being able to do that and [00:39:00] he's got his own life and his own dreams and his own aspirations, and we can do things together that we really enjoy. So we have a lot of fun

Speaker 2: together too.

Yeah, a lot.

Speaker 3: Yeah.

Speaker 2: And you had mentioned earlier that you guys can also communicate, right? Yeah. You can talk about whatever is in the space, the elephant in the room, what's going well, what's not going well, and that that ability to be able to share yourself.

Speaker: Yeah, and we don't have a lot of conflict.

Sometimes it's about sort of our attachment stuff, and one of us will need more at the time, which is normal. But what we always end with is no matter what, I still love you more than anything, we're gonna figure this out and like whatever we're just talking about, don't get me wrong, I love you. So going through a thing right now where he doesn't really.

Well, I can't say this on a podcast, but he doesn't love doing career wise. He wants maybe a change, whatever else. And instead of it being about us, I'm like, just tell me you love me 'cause I need that, right? And he's like, I love you more [00:40:00] than anything. He's like, this is not about us at all. Just like you for being there and, and just know I love you.

I'm just going through a hard time and that's all I need. And I'm like, great. Okay. Good. Glad we got back. You know, you're not avoiding me. You're just in a place right now, and I'm here for you when you're ready and I can love you the way that I can love you. Right? So like life happens, right? We go through things and that's okay too.

As long as you remember that it's not you versus each other, it's you in together.

Speaker 2: Exactly.

Speaker: For dependence, right? Because it's like, I would love to just be like, wow. I mean, let him do his thing, but that's an attachment disorder. It's about, yep. Being here and saying, when you're ready to talk, I'm here, and I know it's not about me, so it's okay.

Yeah,

Speaker 2: yeah. It takes a level of self-confidence and a level of vulnerability. It's so vulnerable to be in a relationship with somebody because it's not just about you. There's so many things that you can control when you're single, and there are specific [00:41:00] things that will get triggered in attachment because you are attached in a relationship.

There's another level of healing that happens when you're coupled with a healthy person and you can talk about the things and share what's happening and process, because we won't get triggered like that. Otherwise, we have to be in that specific dynamic.

Speaker: I think it's also really important to speak out about what you need.

So again, I said, Tim, I just need to hear that you love me. Yeah. You can be in a place and have to focus on things. Just just tell me you love me. And, and, and then he knows that that's important to me and says, I'm love you more than anything.

Speaker 3: Yeah.

Speaker: Yeah. And just go through nothing to do with you.

Speaker 2: Like, that's, that's it.

That gets me through. Did any part of you feel needy for needing that from him? Worse, yeah.

Speaker: Initially. But then I was, that we both ask about what we need from each other and, and needing something like that, without it being, you have to [00:42:00] constantly feed me with this, but just saying, Hey, just today. 'cause we usually say it, but let me know you love me.

Yeah. Yeah. I think that's okay. So, yeah, so, so yes and no. I, I think the old mate still has a little work to do on that, but like the new, new me just said it and got a great response instead.

Speaker 2: The old us who's used to being there for everybody else, thinks that any need is too needy. So it doesn't matter if you're asking for a need to be loved or you're asking for them to unload the dishwasher, it's like, oh my God, I'm being needy, Freddy.

So believing yourself first and foremost, that no, I, I deserve this. And for this commun for this relationship to work, there has to be the communication about it. 'cause he is not a mind reader. That's, that's a healthy dynamic and a relationship. And I coach my clients as they are coming up against this fear, and it's like, what's the alternative if you don't tell him that you need this from him?

What are you gonna do? What [00:43:00] pattern are you gonna go into? What belief is gonna be fed by that? Yeah. And I even had it, you

Speaker: know, there were a couple of hours too, where it was like, well, maybe it is about me, da da. You can't help it. We're, I'm Overthinker. I'm a highly sensitive person. I will always blame myself first.

We're always, it's about me because we're selfish too, right? Me, me, me, me, me, me. Must be me. I did something wrong. Then I just put out there, I'm like, can you just gimme an and I love you. You know, and, and I got the, the perfect response because you know, he gets me.

Speaker 3: Yeah.

Speaker: And he, that's important. It just wasn't the first thing on his mind because he got going on right now and that's okay.

Speaker 2: Yeah. There are still moments in, I've been with my partner for two and a half years and there are still moments when I'll go to him and be like. Because of my past history of with the men that I've been with, I just need this from you. And I know that this is like, may feel strange to you, but this is what I need.

And he is like, no, that's not strange at all. I just didn't know that's what you needed. What Like [00:44:00] Exactly. Yeah. Okay,

Speaker: great. Is that he does it for me too. Yeah. He'll say, I just don't feel connected today because I'm having a hard day. So that to that means, hey, gimme a little extra love today.

Speaker 3: Yeah,

Speaker: I mean, how much you love me, you know?

And you know, after four or five months you start getting each other a little bit. Obviously we have a lifetime of figuring things out. But you do start figuring out what really is important to a person. And then sometimes life gets busy and you may not remember it or you're dealing with something else, so that that's your priority.

But if the other person could just say, Hey, like, I don't feel super connected right now.

Speaker 3: Yeah.

Speaker: Can you give me something that I need?

Speaker 3: Yeah.

Speaker 2: Of course I can. And healthy partners want to do what they can. They want to be curious about the other person and what they need and what they're experiencing. And because you're in partnership, you both signed on to support each other.

Like that's, that's part of the the gig. [00:45:00] So learning to do that in a healthy way and being with someone who can reciprocate is key.

Speaker: And then also learning how to best support a person. 'cause each person needs a different kind of support.

Speaker 3: Yeah.

Speaker: Some people need to be left alone. Some people need love and affection.

Some people are like me. I need to figure out what I can do to get out of it. I'm always about action. So I put that on people. Mm-hmm. And that's not fair because not everybody's ready for that. So I've had to learn too, and I did that this more. I was like, well, what can we do? Da, da, da. And I was like, you know what?

Nevermind.

Speaker 3: Yep.

Speaker: I'm just gonna love you. Until you're feeling like you're loving yourself again and we're gonna leave it there. I cure myself doing it, and it's always my go-to is to go into action just like how I called you. I was like, that's it. I'm ready. Let's do this. I get to that point, and now that I'm feeling even better about myself, I find I do that in all things, but I can't do to another person.

Speaker 2: Yeah.

Speaker: That person has find their time to do what they need to do.

Speaker 2: Yeah. Getting in the habit of when your partner comes to you [00:46:00] with something, asking them, are you looking for a solution or are you looking to be heard?

Speaker: Exactly.

Speaker 2: Because I can do either one, but I just wanna know which one you're looking for.

Are you just looking for a hug? Yeah. And like, I need to

Speaker: shut up.

Speaker 2: Yeah.

Speaker: Yeah. Because I don't shut up. Well, when it comes to that stuff, 'cause I always, I mean, it's in what, what I do for a living, right? It's like, how can I help? What can we do? Let's get you into treatment. Let's do this. Let's set up a treatment plan, and I have to let that go when it comes to humans and interactions.

Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. And meet them where they are. At some point that action might come in of benefit or use to them when they're ready, but they might not be ready on Laura's readiness scale. Right. Yeah. Is there anything else, any words of wisdom you would give someone, either who's hasn't started the work yet or who is trying to start a healthy relationship after an unhealthy one?

Speaker: I would say let go of the fear on both sides. Asking for help is scary.

Speaker 3: Yeah.

Speaker: So [00:47:00] is moving forward, so, so both sides are scary. The only thing that we know for sure is what already happened. And if we stay, stay in that and we stew in that and we keep just like, ruminating about it and and hoping for change, nothing's gonna happen.

I think the best thing to do is truly maybe put together a list on what it is that you feel you need. And step into, like, again, and I know not everyone's ready for action all the time, but if, if you're listening to this and if you are talking to Bre or you're thinking about saying Bre, then you're ready.

Or at least you think you're ready. So I would say just always remember that on the other side of fear. Is resolve and, and like finding peace and happiness. And I've seen it throughout my life. Again, I'm an old lady, right? 53 years old. Gone through hurry, I've gone through two marriages, I've gone through very severe illnesses and had to get tons of surgeries and [00:48:00] all sorts of things.

And it's interesting 'cause afterwards I always look back and I'm like, it wasn't that bad. Yeah. It just getting through it and being able to take one step in front of the other one. Being really mindful about how you can have boundaries, who you can have as a support system, what work you can do, and then trying to let go of that fear and trying to let go of those insecurities and showing up as the person that you wanna become and and practicing that.

And then you'd be that person.

Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm a firm believer that when we are ready, like that old saying, when we're ready, the teacher appears right, or the support appears, or the. Way forward appears, but you have to be willing to first acknowledge that where you are is not where you wanna be. And then start to open yourself to, okay, what are the podcasts that are coming through my feed right now?

Who are my friends talking about that I need to follow on Instagram? Or whatever it should. Just being aware of how you can [00:49:00] find the right people to help support you through where, where you are.

Speaker: Absolutely. And they're out there. That's the beauty of it. They're out there. Like, the fact that I was able to be brought to you by our, our mutual friend, you know?

I mean, I knew you from a past life. I wouldn't have even thought about it. And she said, oh, you should really talk to Brie. I was like, really? Okay. And then you really, I mean, just everything, it just changed my life and I'm deeply grateful for it. Mm-hmm. Because I feel more connected to myself than I ever have.

Yeah. And

Speaker 2: it's wonderful. It's really not about the guy. I mean, that's the nice perk to be in the relationship that's healthy. But the ultimate goal for me is to help women become the, the woman that they can be alone with and be happy with.

Speaker: That's it. And I think that's when you also, if you're looking for a relationship, that's when you find the right one because all of a sudden you're showing up the way that you wanna be treated.

Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah. So you're gonna, from the place of, of the [00:50:00] self resource, right? You have that. That Energizer Bunny battery that's just going within you always. Yep. Exactly.

Speaker: Exactly. Yeah. So yeah, I think that that's the advice I would give is to just really take steps forward and if it feels scary, let your support system know it feels scary and let them carry you a little bit.

Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah. Uh, Laura, I could talk to you all day long, but for sake of your time and the listeners' time. I always end these by pulling an Oracle card. Oh, like in our sessions. So if you would help me choose on behalf of the listeners, go ahead and close your eyes. Just tune into the deck, just focusing on what's the, what's the highest and best message that could come through for anybody listening today.

And let me know when the shuffle complete

thought body vision.

So if you're not watching [00:51:00] the video, it looks like an electric eel on the card. Let me find the, the message here. Body Vision calls you to be fully present in the moment to experience life with all five of your senses. Imagine the information you could collect if in every interaction you had you consciously sensed into your vision.

Again, hearing eyesight and even the taste of a moment. Your full body is always working for you to enrich the experiences of your life. Body vision is a vibe meant to encourage you to slow down, get present, and soak up the riches of the moment. Body vision is the antenna that tunes you into the unspoken, the unseen, the unheard UNM smelled and un tasted live presently in your whole self.

You're receiving this message because you have gone unconscious in some area of your life, and body vision is like the finger poking you to wake up. Get your senses online. Tune in, tune in, tune in. There you go. There you go. We're coming [00:52:00] unconscious. They heard that and I was gonna make, take a next step.

So that's the way to do it. I love that. Hmm. Well thank you so much for sharing your story. Thank you for your time. It's, it's such a pleasure to have you on the podcast.

Speaker: Always a pleasure, Bre. Thank you.

Speaker 2: If you resonated with this episode, know that you are so not alone. Most every woman that I talk to, either in my free calls or the clients that I work with, are experiencing some amount of fear.

And like Laura said, it can be layers of fear upon fear, upon fear. So know that if you're feeling that, if you're experiencing that, and if you're stuck in that, I'm gonna be a failure if I leave, you are not the only one who is having that narrative and struggling with that situation. I hope that hearing Laura move through that fear and seeing how she was able to meet herself.

Really by meeting her inner child and learning how to choose herself, to choose that little girl and to comfort her in ways that she didn't get in childhood has really [00:53:00] helped her have this compassion for herself that allowed her to heal and heal to the capacity of being able to now hold a healthy relationship to show up healthfully for herself and to another person.

Being able to witness her move from the place of struggling and thinking about that she wanted a, a divorce, and how she was gonna move through that, and being with her through those steps of navigating each piece of fear as it came up. Navigating each boundary as it came up was such an amazing experience for me as a coach.

And being able to interview my clients is one of my favorite things. So I really, really hope that Laura's story can resonate with you. If you also wanna be where Laura is, the coaching is available for you too. So in this show notes, I'm going to put a link to the interest form, which is really the first step to a free session where we can explore where you're at and I can, and see how I can support you.[00:54:00]

It is my pleasure to be able to hold clients through this really confusing and challenging and painful time, and I am in this space because of moving through that for myself. So know that that passion comes from a very, very deep place. And when I say I see you, see you, I understand I've been there and I wanna help you through it as well.

Remember that new, new episodes are dropping every Friday, so until next week, I will sign off for now and I will see you then.