Speaker A

Welcome.

Speaker A

If you're familiar with Jurgen Berkessel's the Intersect newsletter, you know, this is where we explore the ideas he curates.

Speaker A

And if you're new, well, welcome aboard.

Speaker B

That's right.

Speaker B

We take Jurgen's curation of art and technology intersections and talk through his commentary.

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Today we're looking at issue known 51 from April 30, 2025.

Speaker A

Jurgen dives into how tech shapes art and how art pushes tech forward.

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We'll be focusing pretty closely on his specific thoughts from the newsletter.

Speaker B

Yeah, his perspective is really the core of our convers.

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Today we'll touch on AI and design artists using AI, architecture and climate, even technology that evokes nature.

Speaker A

Okay, let's jump in.

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First up, Jurgen reacted to an Elliot Vredenberg piece in Fast Company.

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It's about taste mattering more now with AI.

Speaker B

Right.

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The idea is AI handles the making, so designers focus more on meaning.

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Jurgen highlighted the quote.

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When production is automated, the designer's role becomes less about making and more about meaning.

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And Jurgen's take was interesting.

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He felt this shift.

Speaker A

Well, maybe it was overdue.

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He mentioned spending so much time on tiny details that maybe weren't always noticed.

Speaker B

Yeah.

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So focusing on the why of design, the impact that resonated with him.

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But it does raise a big question, he pointed out, which is?

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Well, if you're just prompting an AI, how do you actually teach vision?

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How do you cultivate that deeper creativity?

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It's less about software skills than perhaps.

Speaker A

Hmm, good point.

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It shifts the focus in education, Maybe more critical thinking, empathy, less, you know, just pushing pixels.

Speaker B

Exactly.

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Your value might become more about strategy, the concept, the feeling you create.

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Less about the pure technical execution itself.

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Okay, next, Jurgen looked at an artist, David Sal, using AI.

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This was in the art newspaper.

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Yeah, this was quite specific.

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Sal trained an AI model on his own paintings to generate backgrounds in his style.

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Then he actually paints over them.

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So it's not just automation for him.

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Jurgen saw it as Sal using AI to, like, reflect on his own style, to evolve it precisely.

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Like a conversation with the machine about his own work.

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Jurgen pulled a quote from Sal.

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You have to imagine this is something that doesn't actually know anything.

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Why even bother to teach us something?

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It's a machine.

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However, once trained, it's useful.

Speaker A

Useful.

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But Yurga added a layer to that, didn't he?

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He did.

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He posed this.

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What happens when a machine helps an artist sort of rediscover their own hands, their own voice?

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It's not just a tool, then.

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It's a catalyst.

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Interesting.

Speaker A

Okay.

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Moving from a single artist to a huge tech company.

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Microsoft's chief designer, John Friedman was interviewed in the Verge.

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Right.

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Talk about AI's impact there.

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Friedman's view is that it's really changing the designer's job towards curation, towards direction.

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Jurgen had a bit of a chuckle, reacting as a longtime Mac user initially.

Speaker B

Ah, yes.

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But then he acknowledged Friedman's point, especially seeing Microcoft use generative AI in like a Surface ad.

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And Friedman himself said something quite telling.

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He did.

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He said, suddenly the design job is how do you edit?

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Even my job over the past six, eight months has become an editor in chief job of the product, not just the design leader.

Speaker A

So Jurgen picked up on that editor in chief idea.

Speaker B

Yeah.

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His takeaway was about design leadership, maybe becoming less about craft mastery and more about, well, taste.

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About that curatorial judgment.

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He wondered how the design community feels about that shift.

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It really puts the emphasis on guiding the AI effectively, doesn't it?

Speaker B

It seems so.

Speaker B

Okay, let's shift to architecture.

Speaker B

Jurgen looked at an interview with Carlo Ratti, the Venice Architecture Biennale curator in the Financial Times.

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And this was about climate change, but with a specific, maybe stark, perspective.

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Very much so.

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Reddy's argument is basically that it's too late to just focus on mitigation, reducing harm.

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He says we need to focus on adaptation.

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Jurgen quoted him saying, usually when people talk about climate change, they talk about mitigating harm in travel industry construction.

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But now it's too late for that.

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As things become more extreme.

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We need a new approach, a new level of thinking.

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Jurgen agreed with the urgency, definitely.

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But he also raised a pretty significant.

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Point of tension, which was about construction itself.

Speaker B

Exactly.

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He recalled data showing the construction industry is a huge source of carbon emissions.

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So he questioned, if building is part of the problem, can architecture, which means more building, really be the primary solution?

Speaker A

Hmm.

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It complicates that call for a new level of thinking, doesn't it?

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What does that really mean for the field?

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That's the crux of Jurgen's hesitation there.

Speaker B

Okay.

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Another topic's from Milan Design Week, an installation by the firm Big for Roka Design.

Speaker B

Boom covered this, right?

Speaker A

This was an interactive water fountain thing showcasing Roka's smart water platform.

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Roka Connect.

Speaker B

Yeah, a closed loop system visualizing water conservation.

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Jurgen's first thought, product placement.

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A sophisticated kind, perhaps, but still, he.

Speaker A

Drew a historical parallel, didn't he?

Speaker B

He did.

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Interestingly, he compared it to Renaissance patronage, rich families funding art, maybe with their own goals in mind.

Speaker A

So his concern, or maybe hope, was about the artists involved.

Speaker B

Yes.

Speaker B

He hoped they were properly paid and genuinely collaborated, rather than just being, you know, co opted for promotion.

Speaker B

It raises questions about that line between art and advertising when tech companies commission work like this.

Speaker A

Makes sense.

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Also from Milan, Design Week and Design Boom, Jurgen looked at A.A.

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murakami's work.

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Ah, yes, the ephemeral tech.

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They use robotics, fluid dynamics, things like that to create installations that feel like natural processes, fog bubbles.

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And Jurgen was really struck by the language they use.

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He was particularly using ephemeral for technology, which we often think of as permanent, and the phrase invoking nature rather than, say, simulating it.

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He wondered if that was like a cultural thing in how it was described.

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More suggestive, less literal, possibly leaving more to the imagination.

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Murakami themselves said something like, we're creating environments that feel natural, but they are entirely artificial.

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It's about the feeling of nature, not copying it.

Speaker A

Interesting distinction.

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Okay, one last quick one Jurgen touched on.

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This was more scientific.

Speaker B

All right.

Speaker B

Reports in Life Science and Science Advances about scientists at UC Berkeley.

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They use lasers to temporarily let people see a new color.

Speaker A

A new color.

Speaker A

Wow.

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They called it olo.

Speaker B

Yep.

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Jurgen saw the scientific value.

Speaker B

Of course, understanding vision may be helping with retinal issues down the line, but.

Speaker A

For art, he wasn't convinced.

Speaker B

Not really for practical application, no.

Speaker B

His skepticism was about the method needing lasers.

Speaker B

Having the subject stay completely still, it just didn't seem feasible as a tool for artists to actually use in their creative process.

Speaker A

Right.

Speaker A

Practicality matters there.

Speaker A

So that's a run through of some key points Jurgen explored in issue 51.

Speaker B

It really covers a lot of ground, showing how intertwined art and tech are becoming, from AI tools to architectural challenges to, well, even perceiving color.

Speaker A

We hope this discussion around Jurgen's commentary gives you a good sense of what the Intersect offers.

Speaker B

Definitely.

Speaker B

And if you want to read his full thoughts, see the original articles he linked to and really dig deeper.

Speaker A

You should head over to the Intersect Art.

Speaker A

That's T H E I N T E R S E C t dot A R T.

Speaker A

You can sign up for the newsletter there and keep up with Yurine's curation.

Speaker B

It's a great way to stay informed on this constantly evolving relationship between creativity and technology.