Gift biz unwrapped episode 83.
We don't want people to be great at marketing.
We don't want people to be amazing at marketing.
We don't care about that.
We just want them to be remarkable because that's when people
start talking about it.
Yeah. Hi,
this is John Lee,
Dumas of entrepreneur on fire,
and you're listening to the gift of biz unwrapped,
and now it's time to light it.
Welcome to gift bears on wrapped your source for industry specific
insights and advice to develop and grow your business.
And now here's your host,
Sue Mona height.
Hi there.
I'm Sue and welcome to the gift biz unwrapped podcast.
Whether you own a brick and mortar shop sell online or
are just getting started,
you'll discover new insight to gain traction and to grow your
business. And today I am so thrilled to have joining us,
Andrew and Pete,
Andrew and Pete run an award-winning content marketing company called Andrew
and Pete,
where they help small businesses create share-worthy content that builds brands.
People love based in the UK.
They are also authors of the book,
the hippocampus,
which teaches small businesses in a step-by-step way,
how to stand out and be remembered in their industry.
They are a regular contributor to social media examiner and have
been featured on the entrepreneur on fire podcast.
And I have just found out they are also going to
be speaking at social media marketing world 2017.
So they are totally hyped with that new news.
And I'm thrilled to have you right after you got that
announcement. Welcome to the show,
Andrew and Pete What's.
We're having a super,
super, super excited hyped up As well.
You should be.
That is a huge accomplishment.
I am so,
so excited for you guys.
Thank you.
This is actually where I met you.
Social media marketing world 2016.
It's really cool to hear this because when we were speaking,
I don't know if you remember,
but this was one of your goals.
You know,
you were out as an attendee,
but one of your goals was to get onstage and now
you guys will be there.
Yeah, it's crazy.
Awesome. Power of attraction.
All right.
Well, as we get started,
our listeners know,
I like to learn something about you and a little bit
of a different way.
And that is by having you describe a motivational candle.
So you guys are going to have to merge it together.
I'm thinking,
but with you guys who knows what your answer's gonna be,
but if you were to describe and help us envision your
motivational candle,
what color would it be and what would be the quote
on the candle?
So I think this is the best podcast question we've ever
been out.
I got to start with a bang.
We've got to come to leach actually.
Yeah. Let me take handles.
Sorry. Yeah,
we don't share everything.
All right.
So condo is very much on brand.
And so my kind of is bright orange,
and this is a quote that I heard very early on
in our business just before it started.
And it's always kind of stuck with me.
It's by someone called Pearl S book.
And the quote is the young don't know enough to be
prudent. And so they attempt the impossible and achieve it generation
after generation.
And that's always sat well with me because I feel like,
especially when we were just starting out,
when we were super young getting into it,
that's what it always felt like we would do it.
It always felt like we were trying to attempt the impossible,
but we were kind of smashing every goal we set for
ourselves because we were always big believers.
You weren't setting a ceiling.
So who's to say that it's impossible.
It's I'm curious condo.
And then my kind of,
I think I would have like the biggest wackiest condo ever.
Why does this not surprise me,
Pete? Well,
you can go to those places and you feel like mold
your hand or something like that will be your car or
light peace sign.
Know mine would be like a vibrant,
hot red or pink or something like that.
My quote would be,
and I don't know who said this quote,
so I'm going to go with it.
It's shorter than mine.
Three words,
three words,
creativity trumps budget.
So that's really,
really powerful for us and everyone that we work with the
idea, because when we went with a lot of startups or
smaller businesses or one man bands,
or, you know,
people who are actually 10 and the hobby into,
you know,
the main source of income,
they probably don't have a lot of budget.
Probably don't have a lot of money,
but you don't need to so long as they can get
creative. And an idea is much more valuable than throwing a
lot of money at some ads or something like that.
So we left that part.
Yeah. I would say that that would really resonate with a
lot of our listeners here because they are happiest and crafters
and we spend thousands of dollars on our craft,
the equipment and the product and all of that.
And then by the time you want to turn it into
a business,
it's like,
Oh my gosh,
marketing dollars.
And you're like all the costs that come with a business.
So I love this quote,
Pete, because it talks about the fact that there is the
opportunity out there,
and this is not a barrier.
The budget is not a barrier.
So you guys landed those perfect.
Just as I expected,
I really feel like we need to create these candles.
Now. There you go.
Okay. So just to ground,
everybody here,
talk a little bit about how you guys came together and
formed your business.
Yeah. So we first met at university eyes,
met across a crowded room,
And Then we both kind of bonded as good friends in
between the second and third year of university.
We started our own business together.
He invested,
it was good.
It made us some money,
but it wasn't like amazing.
It wasn't like gonna give us well domination,
ponds or anything like that,
but it did teach us how to fail and get over
it and that kind of safe environment,
which was nice To see that you guys could work together.
Yeah, Exactly.
So when it came to the end of uni,
I'm ju hot and going out with his girlfriend a long
time, about five or six years,
but yeah,
so he wanted to move to new castle to live with
her. Now we went to university on the other side of
the country,
right. So we had that decision of,
do we move to the other side of the country together
and continue the business?
Or do we split parts at that point?
Or what do we do?
So I decided to just go and fall onto her.
I'd say,
that's a good thing based on what we know about you
guys. So we meet to Newcastle and we didn't know anybody
and we didn't have a proper business.
We didn't have any customers.
We didn't have any income.
We didn't have any business contacts.
We didn't have any network in defense that we would go
to. We didn't have,
we didn't have any money because we'd just come out of
university. And it was in one of the worst financial crisis
is of our time.
So it wasn't looking too good.
So how did we overcome that?
Well, creativity Trump's budget,
right? And we attempted the impossible.
So it's kind of both of my quotes coming together.
That's how our story works and why those quotes stick with
us. So we went out,
we caught us out there as much as possible.
We went network.
We started off Twitter account and Facebook page and things like
this. And you know,
what we realized was how the hell do we compete against
all these other companies that have 10 years of experience?
You have fancy websites,
flyers, they've got followers,
testimonials, how the hell do we compete against that?
The Ansel was again with creativity,
but the way we phrased it was w we like to
be remarkable.
So we like to spend out like to differentiate ourselves.
But the word remarkable is really powerful because remarkable means with
making a remark about,
so we don't tell our customers clients,
right. If we'll get in them through some piece of marketing
and we don't want them to be good at it,
we don't want people to be great at marketing.
We don't want people to be amazing at marketing.
We don't care about that.
We just want them to be remarkable because that's when people
start talking about you and put your hands up at the
gain business from word of mouth.
Yeah. Everybody.
Right. But nobody proactively goes about getting more business by wait
a month.
They don't really encourage it as much as they should.
So we're a lot about that.
I love story,
because I think a lot of people,
once again,
can put themselves in your shoes,
you have a hobby,
and now they're thinking,
okay, well,
you know,
maybe this could be a money-making business.
All my friends tell me my product is so great,
but how would I do that?
How would I break in?
So here you're showing both with the two candles and then
what you guys did.
I mean,
you are living example,
right? Moving across the country.
And now soon to be on the stages,
speaking, et cetera,
you made a name for yourself.
And I want to underline this gift.
Biz listeners,
remarkable. Think about this word in a different way.
Okay. What Peter was talking about is worth making a remark
about the remark.
And so how do you do that?
How do you decide you guys?
What is going to be remarkable about you?
How do you find that?
Okay. So the various different ways to do this.
And with some businesses,
it's a lot easier for others.
A lot of people may feel like they're in maybe a
bit of a boring industry.
How do I stand out in this?
But we love working with boring industries because you don't have
to do that much,
do something a little bit different and you will stand out
just naturally.
Yeah. Right?
So one of the things that we always go through our
clients with is looking at what we call the norms of
our industry or the boring parts of our industry.
So the things that are always the same,
no matter what company you look up.
So is it business cars?
Is it packaging?
Is it shop signage?
Is it your uniforms that you're wearing?
Right. All these things that can be just the same across
your industries.
If we can make those more remarkable,
if we can make those more of a talking point,
that's when we can really break through.
So there's two kind of main ways to stand out.
The first is to be better.
And the second is to be different in marketable,
as we say,
and great example of this is a Tyler.
I public Tyler,
my team,
you go somewhere,
right? And at one point in your life,
you live in say,
right, you look into the best Tyler you've ever been to
in your life.
I even know where it is,
but go ahead.
Okay. But you don't come out of that Taylor and then
start telling everyone about it.
Yeah. You don't walk into that title again and start taking
pictures. You don't those people in there.
Yeah. There's,
there's a truth,
But you just looked really weird.
Right. It's just like,
Hey Andrew,
did you check out this title in this restaurant?
It's so good.
But you know,
that's better,
right? That's a better title than another title.
Okay. But if someone said to you,
is that toilet nice?
You would say,
yes, it's great.
In fact,
the best one I've ever been to.
Right? So if you are better in your industry or you're
better at something,
I'll have a better product,
people will about it.
Once it's brought up in a situation,
however, it's not prompted you,
don't go out and talk about it.
Willy nilly,
without being prompted,
which is what remarkable is.
That's what being different is about.
So if you walk into a tailor a sentence,
a guy's right,
it's equal,
you walk up to the Urano and just above the toilet
is a full life-size photo of a woman looking down and
looking really impressed her height.
Now, as a guy you're working to these totes and you're
like, wow,
this is so funny,
amazing feeling,
quite the ego missed.
And then you walk out and you go,
Oh my God,
Andrew. I mean,
you're thinking there's,
Tyler's, there's like this photo of a woman.
And it's like the rhinos looking down at you or in
that situation.
And you might even take a photo.
Yeah. Post it to any social networks songs.
There's no people at the urinals at the time.
And all of a sudden you're talking about it.
You're posting that on social media.
Now, people listening to this podcast and I presume you're not
going to be selling public toilets,
whatever you are selling,
try and make it better or remarkable.
Yeah. So you might make the best gifts in the world.
You might be the best at what you do.
You might make the best jewelry jewelry in the world,
but that's only going to come up in conversation.
If someone is saying to somebody else,
I would really love to buy a necklace from a girlfriend.
Do you know of any other places,
what you need to start doing is looking at how to
actually make your business worth,
making a remark about What I'm hearing from you guys is
it doesn't necessarily relate to the product because someone can copy
any functions or any pieces let's say your materials or something
that you're using to create whatever your product is.
So it is the product because your product has to be
at a certain level,
obviously. But the remarkable part comes with the story that gets
created around that product.
Would that be right?
Yeah, exactly.
Exactly. For example,
there is a shorts company called chip is,
I don't know if you've heard of showbiz.
So they say they make the world's best shorts.
How do you spell that?
C H U B B I E S they do fantastic
content marketing.
Right? So the website and the branding and everything,
the email marketing,
that's all kind of spot on the products,
just look amazing.
They're not hard to sell them really,
really well,
but to get people talking about the business,
to make it a remarkable business,
their content isn't necessarily about the shorts.
So what they are basically talking about is how people in
nine to five jobs can have amazing weekends,
right? And their content is based all around this it's all
around. I can't remember what the slogan is.
Folk braid slogan.
It's kind of like living for the weekend,
but better,
better than living for the weekend.
And so they are showing crazy things to do this weekend.
They are showing people doing crazy stuff at the office.
They're all wearing the shorts while they're doing it.
But it's remarkable content that's so shower.
They, So share-worthy because people take pictures,
they probably want to post them up everywhere,
you know,
with they're tagging.
Right? Yeah,
yeah, yeah.
Yeah. So I'm glad we're expanding into content marketing now because
that's really where I want to do a deep dive with
you guys,
so awesome.
You have your product and then you want to find a
way to make it remarkable so that people are talking about
it, initiating the conversation versus responding.
If someone's asking for a source,
you build some type of story around it,
it could apply to,
it could be something part of the product that's unique,
or it could be a story.
Right. And then is that single story?
What you're always using?
Or can you have multiple stories or what do you say
about that?
Okay. So when it comes to content marketer,
you have to decide whether you have a content rich business
or a content poor business.
And let's just define those two rich business is where you
have a lot to say,
and people actually want to know about your product.
So marketing,
for example,
people want to know how to market the business.
So we've got an easy in some senses because what quite
content rich,
there's a lot of content where we can be creating to
kind of draw people to our business,
to our brand.
People want to know about marketing.
And there might be some gift industries that are the same
knitting I know is a big example of content.
Rich. People love to know how to knit new things,
how to get new patterns.
Pete tells me he's always Googled,
but it might not be,
if you're doing gifts for say,
I don't know,
cufflinks, you may be,
that's quite content pure because people aren't necessarily wanting to know
how the cufflinks are made.
You don't really care.
Right? And most people don't care about your business either.
So it's constant pause.
There's not much to write about that.
Yeah. There's only so many times you can talk about cufflinks
and how to wear cufflinks.
Yeah. And different styles of cufflinks and how cufflinks are made
pretty fast.
So there's two challenges that come up there for content,
rich businesses.
Like MarkTen like,
Nitten, we have to find a new spin on the content.
We have to find a way to kind of twist it.
That makes it unique to us for content pure industries.
You have to find stuff that people actually want to know
about. Right.
And a lot of that comes through solving people's problems.
People might not be in the market right now to buy
some new cufflinks,
but they are interested in making the most of the wardrobe
that they've already got.
They might be interested and passionate fans for that center.
Yes. Fashion trends for that summer.
So when we can solve people's problems,
not necessarily talk about the product,
but talk about people's problems.
That's how we draw people in,
because that's what we want to be doing.
We want to be drawing people into our brand because if
you go into the street now and ask the first hundred
people that you see,
if the want to buy your stuff,
then probably 99% of them are going to say,
no, you might get lucky with the 1%.
But rather than glues that 99%,
we have to keep them attracted to us.
So when they are ready to buy,
they'll at least consider us.
Where does the concept of the promise of a lifestyle come
in? Does that overlay both or is that more in the
content? Pure one.
Yeah. Explain.
I'm just,
I'm thinking like the image of let's take a Mercedes-Benz for
example, the idea that if you own that car,
you have a certain type of lifestyle.
So all the marketing is around good-looking men and women around
that car.
They're going on,
plush, vacations,
driving in the car,
you know?
So the car then owner ownership of the car,
but subtly equates to a lifestyle That's probably in more of
the content,
pure things,
cars, cars,
big products,
people aren't going to buy those or mass many times in
their lives.
So they do have to kind of associate the brand with
something else.
Yeah. People buy something to tell the world what they're all
about. So if they,
they would buy it because that means I have this lifestyle
and not,
and everyone knows that.
Yeah. You're buying the recognition for yourself.
It's that vintage.
Yeah. Taking it back to chippers.
People are buying tubers because they think they're cool because the
one I live,
I also have an awesome weekend.
Yeah. So if you can,
okay. That's driving it into a lifestyle of feel like if
you own this product,
then you're a step closer to whatever that feeling is or
that experiences.
Yeah, exactly.
So for sample,
when it comes to your content,
the recipe for your perfect content is something that's aligned to
your brand values.
Okay. And so it maximizes you and what you're all about
so that people get to know you trust you and like
yeah. It links in with their problems.
So it draws them in and it's also aspirational.
Okay. So chubby is,
is the best jacuzzis in the world.
For example,
10 things you can do on a $10 budget this weekend
to live like a rock star.
So it's all about how to live this awesome lifestyle in
your Chubbies,
right? Because if you're wearing TVs,
you have only really where to me is when it's hot
and when you're doing something fun or you going out,
right. That's two Brits talking here.
So yeah.
That Lincoln into that aspirational message.
Right. And then they make it share where the,
so one of the reasons people share is because it makes
them look good to share it.
So with that,
if you're creating content,
like the world's best freezes,
if you share,
it kind of makes you look cool in their eyes.
Right. Because it's like,
Hey, I know where the best places to coach a Cruzan
is. Right.
It's all that.
Self-image not.
What does that say about you?
What says that,
unlike the extreme kind of guy that likes to live in
amazing weekend fun.
Yeah. It's really get into those nitty-gritty like emotions and the
image and things like that.
Aspirational message people really want.
So what we really want people to do that are listening
is to stop thinking about creating content just around the product.
Yes. Because that's only going to get you so far.
We need to be thinking a bit broader.
How do we draw people in without just talking about features
and benefits is what kind of marketers have been plugged for
years now?
What's the features,
what's the benefits.
That's what we have to talk about,
but try to think more about the problems that you solve
it. Yes.
Yeah. And so let me summarize here.
I think you were really talking about in terms of content
marketing, four points align with your brand values.
So that is what your company stands for.
What's important.
And what represents your brand,
Jen, linked to problems that your customers have use that for
content, make it aspirational that ties in a little bit of
the lifestyle that we're talking about and then make sure to
position it so that it's share-worthy so people,
they are looked back upon as a valuable informant because they've
shared content that you've created.
Yes. Yeah.
It's that social currency.
It makes him look good.
Yeah. Like for example,
this is a secret bar.
Okay. It's not so secret anymore,
which is totally wrong.
But this a secret bar in New York and it's called,
please don't tell.
And the only way to get to it is to go
into this restaurant.
I mean,
it's just a standard restaurant.
You wouldn't blink an eye at it,
just a normal restaurant you go in and it's like a
novelty telephone box in the corner.
Again, you wouldn't really think anymore about it.
But if you go into that telephone box and dial zero,
you have to go inside the secret bar right now.
How cool is that?
That's remarkable.
If I was in that bar,
I would be taking so many selfies.
Right. I'm in a secret bar,
right? Because it makes you look good.
We want people to take that same principle and apply it
to their content.
So we want people to make others look good with the
content, make your target audience look good by giving them something
that they can share.
Okay. So I am thinking that a lot of our listeners
are saying,
okay, I'm super creative already with my product,
but I have absolutely no idea how I would do this
with my product.
Yes. And let's go further.
Let's say,
okay, I'm going to say that my product is because your
first thing you need to do is you need to define
if you're content rich or content poor.
Can you give our listeners a couple of ideas of how
they could start thinking and gravitating to what would be that
thing that is shareable and aspirational?
How do they get to those thoughts?
So there is a cool strategy that we use.
We usually do it on a whiteboard.
So I'm not sure if this is going to come off
well on a podcast,
but we'll give it a go.
So it's called problem maps by another British marketer called,
who is an awesome marketer as well.
If you want to check him out.
So he wrote a book called stickier marketing that kind of
debated whether the features and benefits were still relevant.
So what you do is you kind of throw a grid
and it's four by four,
and then you create four headline problems that your product solves.
What's a good example here.
Yeah. Well,
let's do a gift.
Let's do a candles candles,
right? Okay.
So what problems do candles solve?
What problems to,
of solve.
Okay. So they,
my home doesn't smell very good.
Yeah. That's a problem.
My home doesn't look very good without candles.
That's a problem.
I want to relax at night.
I want to find some cheaper alternatives to decorate my home
Or decorating for a special party or something Special party.
And I can't find a cost efficient way of creating and
that the guy that I went to relax at night.
Yeah. So that's kind of like four main headline problems that
you've got there that you can start creating content about.
And that's where people usually stop.
But then what this tool does is it takes each of
those four headline problems and it asks you to think of
three more result in problems from that.
Okay. So my home doesn't look very good.
What is the result and problem from that?
Okay. So my friends don't want to come over.
Yeah. I don't want to host that because my house,
I'm not confident about my house looking at,
or thinking on the spot here.
It's not exciting and comfortable to come home because I just
don't like,
it's not a comfortable atmosphere.
Yeah, exactly.
I don't.
And I don't like coming back home cause it doesn't feel
like a home.
It just feels like a house.
We usually,
once we've got like a group of people together and we've
got a whiteboard and we're going for it,
you can really come up with loads of ideas if you
kind of push yourself.
Yeah. So we usually go for three resulting problems each,
but then we push them and they come up with more.
And by the end of it,
all these problems that their product solves.
And then we start looking at what's crossing over.
So you can,
you can have result in problems that fall into different categories.
Then we apply those to the brand values.
So what kind of makes sense to talk about,
and then all of a sudden you've got actual content that
is more enticing than just here's my condo compared to five
ways to make your home look affordable on a hundred dollars
budget. Not only that it's not a Brown the product anymore,
but I think so often now there's a big topic that
comes about and everybody's writing on the same topic.
And I think when you get niched into some of these
industries, like candles,
everyone's writing about the same thing too,
even if it's not just the product.
So this is a way to get down to some really
creative stand out and dare I say remarkable types of topics.
Yeah. Because once you apply the problem maps to a strong
brand and a strong aspiration,
that's when things really stopped flying.
So problem ups will take you so far,
but say if this candle company had a great brand,
I'd say if it was,
I don't know,
a cheeky candle company.
Yeah. You could sit and start talking about funny ways to
decorate your home,
this Halloween.
Yeah. People that did the S and we'll talk him through
it and they,
yeah, well,
this isn't going to produce much,
but actually like once they've gone through it,
I'll let them away because they'll come up with so many
more mature,
cooler ideas and I'll say it it's incredible.
Well, and I think also it really excites you with your
business. One of the things with our listeners is they might've
been in business for a while and they've gotten stuck.
You know,
they've been doing the same thing.
They're not seeing an increase in sales.
It's just kind of the same old,
same old holidays,
come and go.
And they're repeating the same types of things.
This idea for content marketing and brand new content and content
marketing just doesn't mean emails or social media posts.
It could be window display themes.
Like it could go permeate throughout the whole business.
Right. So it's a way to reignite.
And re-energize a brand that's kind of gotten into kind of
just petering along if you will.
Exactly. Yeah.
We have sent it.
Love how you phrase that because we're all about having fun
in your business.
And I will be in town.
Couldn't get that one.
If you're not having fun,
if you're not being yourself,
then things start to become a whole lot harder.
One of the biggest issues we see these days is people
pretending to be someone that they're not,
or someone who they think they should be.
Now, I'm going to use this professional bullying color.
And I'm going to use all this jargon and try and
make myself sound really good and corporate and sound like I
have a big team.
Me, I'm going to use words like we and us when
really it's just,
I and me,
as soon as you start doing that,
it becomes fake and it's not real.
And people don't quite Trish.
You don't,
they don't quite see you.
It's not real enough for them.
They may not be saying that they don't believe you,
but there's just,
there's not the connection.
It's not coming together Exactly.
By being more real and just being more you,
which is why the brand is so important,
then all of a sudden you start to get people that
really like you and trust you.
Who cares if people don't like you,
we were actually really proud if someone like comments on one
of our videos and says,
I hate you guys.
No, one's really ever done that.
But I was just going to ask,
do you think so,
But there's this lady called Sue,
But you know,
the thing is not everyone is gonna like and resonate with
you. And if people do,
then you're probably pretty bland and right down the center.
I mean,
you're talking about being remarkable,
being different.
And by doing that,
you're probably going to only capture some segment of an audience,
but they're going to love you.
Like the people that I with you will love you.
And that's what you want.
They're going to buy from you.
They're going to support you.
They're going to share your stuff,
all of that.
And we don't need millions of followers to be successful.
We need people who are committed and loyal.
Yeah. Like we,
you want to run this divisive.
You want a modern light Brown.
Do you want people to love you or hate you?
Because either way there'll be talking about you.
I'd rather have 50 people that love me and we're by
and share everything we do than have a hundred people that
you know,
on the fence about us.
Absolutely. Yeah.
Yeah. It's,
it's so important to have a brand and to be a
little bit more Eddy with your business and with your content.
How many barring blogs have you read?
Well, that's true.
And I don't even know if we want to go there,
but I'm just going to bring this up and maybe we
can talk to us really quick about it.
Most people,
the typical thing is you'll do a blog and then let's
say your blog is fabulous though.
Okay. Let's say your blog is fabulous,
but you're needing to attract more people.
So you're going to get people over to an email list.
And then you're going to email the content of your blog,
right? Or video in your case,
what are your tricks as just the final?
We're going to round this out with a couple of points,
but how do you get people to open your emails if
they don't know you already?
Because once people open emails,
they're going to open every single one because you guys are
entertaining, informative,
super fun.
And your videos are pretty quick.
And for gift biz listeners who don't know him,
I want you guys to go see what I mean?
Just go to Andrew and pete.com,
sign up for their newsletter.
You've got to be seen these.
They are awesome.
And speak to everything you guys are already talking about.
But back it up,
if someone is just starting out with this blogging and then
doing emails,
how do you get people to open those emails?
Okay. So I think we've got a few points on here.
I think maybe we've got plenty.
So what I would definitely say is indoctrinations here is,
is a must.
So when you are assigning people up to your email list,
you need to be sending a series of emails straight away,
right off the bat,
just so people can get to know you.
It could just be kind of three in a series,
that'd be three German a week.
So people know what to expect from you.
So they can find out a little bit about your brand.
You could introduce yourself personally to them.
If emails are coming up,
people specifically that that's much more open than when it's coming
off the company,
they're easy to ignore because it's kind of faceless.
You don't feel as bad ignoring them.
But if you can introduce,
you personally put a face to the email that really helps
with open rates.
Yeah. I would also by saying this two types of content
that you can put out that,
and this is where we see them.
Most people go wrong.
So you have your primary content and then you have your
second grade content.
So the primary content is completely no sales.
Okay. It's completely educate,
entertain, or provide value.
You want to make people feel happier or smarter.
Once they've consumed it,
read their listened to it,
whatever. So that is the aspirational content that's entertaining or useful
or whatever makes them happier or smarter.
There's absolutely no sales message in the app,
whatever. Okay.
That's there to draw people in and build up your brand
equity, make them like you and trust you.
So that's your primary rich content there that could be a
blog or a video or whatever.
And then you've got your secondary conversion content that is all
the sales content.
Basically. That is what happens if they want to take it
a little bit further.
They want to know if I order this,
when will it arrive?
How good is your service?
How good are you at making these products?
What's the behind the scenes.
I want to see some testimonials.
I want to know this on an,
on about your business.
That's all very selfish content.
And conversion-based.
So when we send out a weekly emails,
it's literally just watch this video.
I'll make you happier or smarter.
We don't use those words,
you know,
and then that's it.
We don't sell in that,
but we do try and inspire a secondary action.
Cause the moment you sell,
then that loses the trust.
And Hey,
so last time I opened Hunter and Pete's email,
it was really good.
And a lent some thin,
or it was really funny.
So next time you send an email,
I'm going to open it again.
Whereas if I was to open Andrew and Pete Tema,
they would tick Lummi in with some sales spiel.
That sounds like they're going to provide me with some value,
but bang and hit me with a sale.
All of a sudden they've wasted my time.
I wasn't in the market to buy right now.
I've not asked for that sale.
I don't really know who you are yet.
You haven't proved yourself to me yet.
So just send primary content and build that prime equity.
And then some point when you're ready,
when you feel like you've built up enough value and credibility
and trust with people,
then send a sales email,
right? We actually get less people unsubscribing on our sales emails
than we do to our actual content,
which is ridiculous.
But that's only because that's only because we've sent them like
20 weeks worth of content that has been pure volume.
They love it.
They share it.
They like it.
They comment on it.
They tell us they really like it.
So that one day when we go,
you know what,
guys, we have this product,
do you want it?
All of a sudden,
they're like,
you know what,
guys, I respect that.
Now you can sell me something.
Now I know all about you.
I'm actually among Penn to that now.
And I Trisha.
So yes,
I will buy it.
Can I just one final point on email marketing as well?
I feel like this is super important specifically for the gift
industry is that segmentation is key with email.
So if people don't know you,
if they've just subscribed,
you don't want to hit them with sales stuff straight away.
If they're already a customer,
if they used to buy them from you,
we can maybe increase that a little bit more than we
would everybody else.
And if we can do that in clever ways,
for example,
I was buying flowers for my mother the other day,
cause it was a birthday and I live in a different
city. So I was buying them online through a website called
into floor.
I don't know if you have that in the States you
can basically,
or the flowers do anywhere in the UK through,
into flora.
One of the tick boxes,
right at the end was,
would you like to be reminded of this via email next
year? And I was like,
yes, I would.
That's good.
So if we can build that into our email as well,
like more clever ways of giving,
cause that's useful and salesy at the same time.
Perfect. Because we're talking about emails and I liked that.
You're talking about build the relationship first and then you have
the right to talk about other things that they can get
by paying your money.
Right. And then also segmenting based on the relationship level that
you have with each customer.
So beautiful.
Perfect. All right.
And again,
I just want to make the comment.
You need to go over and watch them.
Cause all of this will come full circle.
When you see one of their emails,
that includes a video.
I think there are YouTube videos.
Pretty sure you'll you'll understand this even more.
When you see some of the stuff they do plus your
content is fabulous.
So I'm saying it twice because I really want people to
do it.
Any final things just to close the loop on all that
we've been talking about to this point.
Are we good?
I would say maybe final point Be brave,
go for it,
enjoy it.
And don't be kind of one of these stagnant businesses that
just copies everybody else.
Take a risk and make it fun.
Just like you said,
Andrew and Pete,
I want to move now into the reflection section.
This is a look at you.
As your candles are burning to see a little bit more
of what's made you successful.
What is one natural trait that you have that you think
you're calling upon all the time that is leading you to
your successes?
This is a great question.
I think for both of us,
it's probably why we became friends as well.
Was that we're both super persistent.
So we hate giving up.
We don't particularly like lose it.
We hate the feeling that we haven't tried our best and
we constantly kind of pushing ourselves forward if things don't work.
Yeah, it's good in and we hate that feeling,
but we're always going to keep on trying TRIBE try and
we're always going to get ourselves back up and pray again.
Go for the next thing stubborn,
I think is probably another way.
There you go.
And you know,
for anybody to think that a hundred percent of the things
that they try are going to be absolutely perfection out of
the gate has another thing coming because it just,
it's not reality,
no matter what you've got to try and with that comes
some things aren't just going to work and you got to
try it a different way.
So that's perfect With,
with, with that as well.
Could we add like an unnatural thing as well and an
unnatural trait that let's not,
not maybe unnatural,
but it took some work somewhere and it was something that
I think every one of your listeners would kind of benefit
from. It's a quote that we have another quote,
another quote for you and the Crow is schedule for success.
So don't just wait for success.
The Hopkins schedule it in.
So in the last year we've achieved more than we have
in the last five years because we have been so much
more focused,
productive, and more organized.
So he wants something to happen.
Schedule it in your diary.
So many people don't do this and they wonder why nothing
happens. Why they're not moving forward in business.
The talk has,
you know,
they will,
Oh, I'm going to do that.
I'm going to do this.
I'm going to,
when, when is it going to happen?
Tell me.
Yeah. Like we literally have every single day scheduled scheduled in
our diary three months in advance.
So we know what we're going to do.
We say,
okay, what do we want to get achieved in this next
three months?
How many days is this going to take us?
On what days are we going to attribute to doing this
goal? Never write down a to-do list action without putting it
in a set and time slot of when you're going to
do it.
It's just otherwise it just doesn't get done.
Yeah. It keeps it so easy just to let it get
put off to the next day,
to the next day.
Do you guys sit down on a quarterly basis and put
this together?
How does that work?
Like at the end of the year,
we've just done it recently.
We've planned out what we want to achieve in the first
we've kind of done the first job,
but it's more like the first six months we think having
long-term goals is kind of good to keep you grounded,
but things change so much.
So what we've learned is when maybe what,
six months in advance,
but three months in advance,
fully scheduled in each day.
And then every three months we'll repeat the process.
We'll give busy listeners.
You can do that.
If you're a company of one as well,
it doesn't.
Yeah, you don't,
you don't have to just do it.
If you have a partner or something like that,
it's a great,
that's a great thing.
And, and new year's is coming around.
So it's a great resolution to practice practice now and then
set it fully in place for next year.
If need be Like unnatural trait.
That's the one that's attributed.
I think a lot to our success in slash yet Love
that you brought that up.
That's perfect.
What tool do you guys use regularly besides your scheduler then
to help you create balance in your life or make sure
that you're successful.
Okay. We have a tool for everything that we do.
We're all about being more scalable.
I think the tool that we couldn't live without is Google
drive. We're like super fanboys of Google drive.
We use it every single day.
It keeps us both on track.
We actually pride other schedule in bits of software and decided,
you know what?
Let's just do this on a sheet in Google drive because
it's there and we can use it.
We can go on our iPads or I found out IMAX,
we can do it on the go and we can physically
see to the right on it.
So it's all in real time.
Whenever we get a bit of inspiration,
it can go Google drive podcast prep.
We're looking at Google drive right now while we're talking to
you. Perfect.
So this podcast,
the most fun one highlight of the day.
Okay. And now I want to ask you about what book
you've read lately,
but I,
before I do that,
I, because I'm not going to let you say yours,
but I will say yours,
the hippocampus I just finished and it goes a little bit
deeper dive in some of the things that we've been talking
about today,
you guys have actually shared even more different angle versus the
book, but a great grounding point.
So I want all of you to consider the hippocampus.
And I am going to put that one in the show
notes, for sure.
And besides yours,
what other book have you read lately that you think our
listeners could find value in?
We really like this book called contagious.
How to build word of mouth in a digital age,
by a guy called Joe.
I don't know how to pronounce his second name,
but I think it's basher.
P E R G E R.
And he talks about piece of research.
He did,
which basically describes the six reasons why people share anything or
why they talk about anything.
It ties in so much with what we do.
So that's why we live at summit,
Right? It's right in line with everything we've been talking about.
Yeah, exactly.
The six reasons people shat,
our social currency,
just talking about your product,
make you look good.
Can you find your inner remarkability triggers?
It's about by doing this,
does it trigger something else?
It goes into talking about emotion,
public practical value and stories.
It's really great.
So I highly recommend that Curiosity.
So we'll have to check that out and give biz listeners
just as you're listening to this podcast.
I know you like audible.
The hippocampus is on audible cause that's how I listened to
it. And I think contagious is too.
So if you haven't already,
you can jump over to gift biz,
book.com and get a free book on me.
That's gift biz,
book.com. All right,
Andrew and Pete,
it is time for me to invite you to dare to
dream. I'd like to present you with a virtual gift.
It's a magical box containing unlimited possibilities for your future.
This is your dream or your goal of almost unreachable height
that you would wish to obtain.
Please accept this gift and open it in our presence.
What is inside your box?
I think I hear a knock on the door.
Go open.
Yeah. We love this question.
I think you've got a really good book-ended questions here.
Yeah. So we started building a community of what we're calling,
not small businesses because we don't really like that term small
business. I think it's a tiny bit demeaning.
We're calling them atomic businesses.
So they are small,
but mighty because we really all businesses have so much power
in this day and age,
especially when you're looking at digital and social trends.
So much power to do so many great things.
So we really want to start a revolution of businesses who
are small,
but mighty.
We really want this to catch on business.
And entrepreneurship has always kind of been our passion and definitely
that's all we want to do.
We want to work with other people who are super passionate
about their business and help them do more fun stuff.
Yeah. Maybe I play Katy Perry into the buttocks.
All right.
You guys,
I, I'm not even gonna say that's a tall order.
You just never know,
but I think you're so right.
When you talk about small businesses,
I love that you talk about atomic too,
because so many people think the size of the smaller businesses
puts them at a disadvantage.
I would suggest it puts them at a huge advantage because
they're very nimble.
They can change.
They don't have to go through this hierarchy.
They can make adjustments and make plans really quickly.
In my past,
I used to work with a lot of bigger businesses and
it took forever or never happened because someone at the top
who was really somewhat disconnected,
didn't understand what the value would be.
So huge opportunities.
And I love,
I love that you're rebranding.
And I love the fact that you've identified that small is
not necessarily the connotation.
Yeah. Was that tonic?
Yeah. You just need,
like, you need some big sound effect every time you say
a time,
I guess Snapchat filter.
Oh, there you go.
For sure.
All right.
So give biz listeners,
you know,
there's going to be a show notes page.
I will have all of Andrew and Pete social media there,
the website,
all of that.
But for people who are maybe out and about right now,
not going to access the social media page,
where would you direct them?
You guys,
if they wanted to learn more about you.
So our website is Andrew and pete.com.
So that's a super easy one to remember.
It's the same with all of our social profiles,
basically. It's just Andrew and Pete.
Yeah. So it's facebook.com/andrew
and Pete twitter.com/andrew
and Pete Snapchat is Andrew and I we're two favorite social
platforms at the moment where we'll probably hang up most is
Twitter on Snapchat.
So say hello there.
I'm going to say hello.
Buck Sounds perfect.
All right.
You guys,
you did not disappoint me by any means.
I mean,
this has been a truly remarkable podcast.
I would say lots of great information,
really actionable things as well.
Thank you so much for joining me from across the pond.
I think it's later afternoon for you guys right now.
So maybe even early evening,
I'm not sure How far over here.
So That's not too bad,
not too bad.
So again,
I really,
really appreciate it.
And may your candles always price?
It's been a blast.
Where are you in your business building journey,
whether you're just starting out or already running a business and
you want to know your setup for success.
Find out by taking the gift biz quiz,
access the quiz from your computer at bit dot L Y
slash gift biz quiz or from your phone like texting gift
biz quiz to four four,
two, two,
two. Thanks for listening and be sure to join us for
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