Hello, and welcome back to another episode of the Genius Podcast.

My name is Karen Doyle, your host and founder of The Genius Project.

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Now on this week's episode of the Genius Podcast, I am joined by Jess Skippers.

Jess is a very beautiful woman from Melbourne here in Australia, and

we're going to be talking around this topic of how to have meaningful

friendships and connections.

Well, Jess, welcome to the Genius Podcast.

It's so wonderful to have you joining us today.

All the way from Melbourne, I think only two weeks ago.

Was it two weeks ago?

We were together in Melbourne.

Yes.

Two or three.

Yes.

Two weeks ago.

Two.

Two, I think.

I don't know.

Anyway, welcome to the Genius Podcast.

We can share a little bit about that trip in a moment.

It's so good to have you with us.

Thank you.

It's lovely to be here Finally.

It took us a few times, but we are here.

I know like third time lucky we had Indeed internet out one time

and then I lost my voice and yeah.

Anyway, we're here and it's good, and today we're gonna be talking

about this topic of friendship and not just friendship, but meaningful

connection and meaningful friendship and and sisterhood because it's such

an important part of all of our lives.

Like we are created in for relationships.

So we really.

Crave and we are designed for relationship.

But you know, as you know, some women don't have that blessing in their

life and we're just gonna talk around.

This topic today, but you and I both had a beautiful experience two weeks ago in

Melbourne of catching up with each other.

We did.

It was so much fun.

It was wonderful and a wonderful surprise for you and for us too.

I know.

He was, uh, I'll tell you what, Jonathan, he's just amazing.

Karen.

Um, he's a good husband.

He's, he's, we just, we, we got a, um, we got emails and you know, we, um,

Tried to sort it all out and you know, we all, you know, we all love you so much.

So we all wanted to make sure that we could be there and, and it was wonderful.

It was a wonderful couple of hours.

It's never long enough because I feel like just as much as we started to get into

some good conversation we had to leave.

But it's okay.

We, God bless us with that couple of hours.

Nice thing.

And it was lovely to, um, Fill the viewers in.

It was my Jonathan, my 22nd wedding anniversary, and Jonathan surprised

me with a trip to Melbourne and at lunch he organized for yourself

and Alyssa, Roxanne, Andre Nichols.

To surprise me in the hotel and he sent us off to lunch together.

It was such a beautiful gift.

It was.

It was so, I was so surprised.

I had absolutely no idea.

So I didn't even know where we were going until I was sitting on the plane that

morning and it was just, my gosh, it was so nice just to get away with him.

But then the experience of connecting with you women.

Just filled my cup so much.

It was good.

It's really special.

Yeah.

And as for us as well, you know, we don't get a chance to obviously

see you in person very much.

So it was lovely to actually do that.

Yeah.

It was really special.

So let's give the viewers a little bit of background into, I guess, your story and

how you and I came to meet each other.

Yeah.

Would you fill us in on that?

Yeah, sure.

So, um, I grew up, uh, a practicing Catholic.

Um, I, we would attend every weekend with my family and I was seven years

old when I was plucked outta the congregation, um, by beautiful sister

Helen, and asked to join the choir.

Um, and up until maybe two years ago, three years ago, I was actually still

part of that choir in my old parish.

So, wow.

A good, good 30 years.

Um, But yeah, you know, I went to World Youth Day in 2005 in Cologne and

that really, um, catapulted my faith.

I came back with just this eagerness and this absolute joy

in my heart and this consolation.

Um, and I, I just basically saw joy everywhere.

Um, which was, which was lovely.

And I was holding onto that for quite a few years.

Uh, and then I met my husband, well my now husband Phil.

Um, and you know, I guess I kind of moved away a little bit.

I was still attending.

Uh, we got married and then I actually moved.

Obviously out of home, um, into, for, to, to a different suburb.

I was still attending church Weekly, but then that kind of dropped off

quite a lot once, um, Our first child was born Leah, uh, eight years ago.

Um, obviously first time mom, so that's challenging just

to even get out of the door.

Um, so let alone even go in a mass, you know, and you're just concerned

about a crying baby and not knowing how to deal with it, you know, amongst

all the other anxieties that you have about being a first time mom.

And then, uh, you know, Julia came along and then that was, that was a struggle.

Julia was, um, quite a, a hard, we had a first.

First six months were quite challenging.

She had some tummy issues and she wasn't feeding well and lots of sleepless nights

and saw backs and things like that.

But I just remember quite a significant moment.

I was feeding her overnight some stage, and I just remember looking,

um, looking at her and just thinking, I love you, but I don't have that feeling.

That feeling is missing.

Um, And it kind of came to me that it was I needed to get back to music ministry.

Um, in a parish, not necessarily the one that I came from, but in a parish.

And so I kind of met a bit of a resolution.

Um, I'm like, right, I'm gonna go down to my local, um, check it out.

And I did.

And I had a wonderful youth choir, sorry, not youth,

because I'm way past that stage.

It was a young adults choir.

Young, the youth choir.

Young, young adult.

I think I was, I think I was still a little bit too old for, but

they let me in graciously anyway.

Um, And then I started there and I, I just knew I had that spark back.

I knew that this is what God was calling me to do and to use my

gifts and talents or his glory and that was the way to do it.

So that kind of got me back, um, going to church, you know, somewhat weekly.

Um, and then they had a, um, Like a, like a mentoring masterclass.

Um, and I walked in and one of my beautiful friends, Alyssa, was

sitting in the, on the table and I had seen her face in a publication

a couple of weeks before that.

So I knew her face, but I couldn't exactly pinpoint exactly where from.

And then after the session she looked at me and she's like,

did you go to this school?

And I said, yes.

And she's like, oh my goodness.

So did I.

And then we just started talking.

Um, wow.

And this was probably late 2019.

Uh, so then, you know, we got home and we added each other on

Facebook and we started all of that and we, we started talking.

And the good, the wonderful thing was that after my experience of World Youth

Day in 2005 in Cologne, I went back to my old high school at an assembly

and I spoke about my experience.

Um, and she was sitting, she was a student at the time and she was sitting

there and she heard my speech and she told me that my speech is what made her

want to go to Sydney World Youth Day.

Wow.

And, you know, many years.

That's amazing.

And then all those years later reconnected.

Yeah, absolutely.

And you know, and you never know if you're actually gonna touch

anyone when you're, you know, my words are actually going to, yeah.

Filter into anyone's heart or, you know, open up anyone's heart.

But obviously it didn't, obviously I didn't find out until many, many

years later, uh, when, when we reconnected, which was really special.

Um, and then beginning of 2020, um, no one can forget that when Covid, um,

came and disrupted all of our lives.

And, um, and then through that I met, um, through Alyssa.

I met, um, the beautiful Roxanne and we started chatting, you know, about.

All the craziness and trying to get, you know, make sense of

what was happening and all the lockdowns, one of many in Melbourne.

Um, yeah.

And yeah, look, we've kind of been inseparable ever since.

So it's a deal.

We are, we do we, we come in three.

We tell that to everybody.

You want one of us to go have all of us, which is great because

it's just, oh my goodness.

The chemistry between the three of you is something to behold and experience,

which Yvonne and I got to do.

When we hosted the Real Women's Series in Canberra, the three of you flew

up and each of you were guests on that program, which was beautiful.

So it was lovely to have that time in the studio.

With each one of you, but I thoroughly enjoyed last week just being around a

table sharing life, and I just got an insight into how much fun it would be

to live in Melbourne with you three.

It is great.

We do, we do love each other's company obviously.

Um, but we have a great time when we are together.

You do.

But even more than that, what you've done for one another is to, I guess,

deepen and draw one another into deeper relationship with Christ.

And that has been one of the beautiful fruits of your friendship, that each

of you or three of you have deepened in your faith, in your faith walk, and

also in your support of each other.

And I guess also discovering a deeper sense of your own

personal mission and purpose.

Indeed.

Yep.

Absolutely.

Um, I can pretty much give you a timeline of, you know, when I met these beautiful

women and the fruits of that friendship.

Um, you know, obviously met Alyssa and then met Roxanne.

Um, but then it was, I'd never picked up a rosary before I'd met

Alyssa, you know, so there was that.

I started praying the rosary, um, And then, you know, we would talk every day.

So all the struggles and things that we were having during covid

and during lockdowns and during homeschooling and, you know, working

from home, which was so e everything was just disrupted in our worlds.

And we, we would speak every day, um, and we would just kind of guide each

other through it and say, you know, we are praying for you and everything.

But then, you know, so I started praying the rosary and then I would

obviously, Start changing myself, I would have Christ at the center of my

day, um, the center of my life more.

And I guess covid in a way was a bit of a blessing because I had time, I had

extra time, and I'd always wanted to, I guess, delve deeper into my faith.

You know, it, uh, a primary school, secondary school, faith.

Um, formation probably wasn't very good.

You know, it was very basic.

You know, what you learn at, um, you know, in preparing for your sacrament.

And then in high school, look, let's face it, high school.

I think my class was either a bludge or we did meditation or something in B, c,

E, and it wasn't even anything remotely.

To do with religion?

No.

And there's actually not, is there like, it's more, it's more

and more students are leaving Catholic schools without the faith.

I think it's because we're not catechizing, we're not diving deep

into this formation of what it means to flourish as a human person.

Exactly.

Yeah.

So I wanted that like my heart, like I was, I was thirsting for it.

I was thirsting for scripture.

Um, God put it on my heart that it's like, I want you to learn more.

So I did, you know, I found an old.

Catechism.

Tiny little one that I think was in a World Youth Day pack actually, that

I opened up for the first time and I started reading and highlighting.

I'm like, oh wow, I had no idea about any of this stuff.

And you know, you start jumping on the internet and you start reading books

and start reading, you know, um, stories about the saints and their lives.

So, previous to this time, I haven't done any of that, you know, so to have.

That, that, that distinct starting point.

Um, you know, when I met Alyssa and Roxanne and then, you know, to now,

that was a kind of the pivotal moment really, you know, and, you know, and

then obviously you can't, um, the, the, the fruits that this actually.

Does for the rest of the people around you.

You know, my husband has come back to the faith.

Praise God.

You know, and we are going to mass weekly as a family.

And my, I'm, you know, I'm teaching my girls who are eight and, uh, Leah's

eight and Julia's five, almost six.

I'm teaching them about the faith.

And you know, I had a parent-teacher interview with

Leah's, uh, teacher yesterday.

And one of the things that she actually said to me, she said her,

her faith, she said her knowledge.

Of the faith and the saints and, you know, even particularly Holy Week that

just passed, she's like, it was, she even had to look up something myself

because I wasn't sure that she told me, you know, oh, this is something.

She's like, oh, I'm not sure.

That's, you know, I didn't know that.

So when sometimes you think that you're not doing anything right, to

have these little bits of consolation and little bits, um, you know, of

people telling you, you know, you are on the right track and you're doing

this, but again, let's bring it back.

None of this would've happened if I had, if I don't, if I didn't

have those two beautiful women.

In my life, you know, and God.

Obviously can foresee everything and nothing is a coincidence.

It's God places and does things in our lives on purpose.

And I think he knew that we were gonna need each other, we're

gonna have to rely on each other.

Um, during Covid, because it was, it was two years in Melbourne.

We, we went through it in for two years, I think.

What, six lockdowns or seven lockdowns.

Well, you had the longest lockdowns in the whole world.

Yeah.

It was really, really tough.

So as much of a blessing, it was in that sense that I got to deepen my faith.

It was also blessings.

I got to meet these beautiful women.

That's probably one of the, um, one of the most wonderful things I

think God has done, um, in my life.

Yeah.

And I'm sure they'd say the same is to bring us, praise God.

Bring us three together.

Yeah, indeed.

Yeah.

It's been such a beautiful fruit too.

And just your commitment to one another has been very,

very beautiful to It is, yeah.

And I don't think I can say that I've ever had this friendship feels different.

Yes.

And it is different.

And I think when you have Christ at the center of a friendship, Um, it, it, it,

it just automatically is different, you know, because you come at things and

your struggles and the struggles that you bring, you know, to our conversations,

their advice that they give me is about our faith, you know, suffering.

You know, bef, bef before I had my faith suffering was just,

oh gosh, you know, poor me.

Why is this happening to me?

But when you add the Catholic aspect to it as well, you have a different

view of suffering and they're there to remind you of that, you know, and

to help you with those struggles and.

The friendships that I've had previously, or even your other friendships that I have

now, you know, I still have, I'm still friends with, you know, high school girls

and stuff, but it's just not the same.

And my husband even says, he goes, your, that friendship is different.

Even he notices yes.

That that friendship is different.

So let's talk about that for, uh, for a moment because, I mean, let's go back for

just a minute before we dive into that.

There are so many women, and I do think that there is this real

epidemic of loneliness in the world today, and I think there are so many

women, I know this through sisterhood who, like you said, they've never

actually had these deep, meaningful connections and friendships with people.

I've been incredibly blessed in my life.

I have to say though, going through high school, I didn't.

I had my cousin.

Mm-hmm.

But it wasn't until I came into this faith community as a young adult in

college where we set up a youth group.

That I really started to develop and form those deep connections,

and I'm still friends with a lot of those people today actually.

And yeah, you're right, there is a standout quality.

And I think when you have connections with other female friends, there's something

that emerges out of friendship and it's this deeper concept of sisterhood.

It almost feels like this is a sibling relationship where you really have each

other's back in a more intimate way.

Mm-hmm.

And you're fighting for each other, whether it's in prayer

or just to support that person.

And I think that's sort of the relationship that

Gods really calling us too.

And we spoke about this on the Real Women's Series, but

Aristotle talks about these three different kinds of friendships.

There's the friendship of utility, so someone that serves a

purpose in your life for a time.

And then he goes right up until the virtuous friendship, the friendship of

the good and that kind of friendship is the friendship that if you're on the

receiving end of that, it's the other person just wanting your good for no other

reason than they want to see you flourish.

They're not in that relationship to get something out of it, and I

think that's where that beautiful.

Bond of sisterhood emerges where we, we enter into that friendship of the

good, the virtuous friendship where we really seek to place another before

ourselves and, and seek their good.

Absolutely.

And that's a hundred percent how it is with us as well.

You know, um, we.

There's no, you know, our friendship isn't surrounded about, you know,

with gossip or anything like that.

And it's just, you know, when we catch up, it's just, it is for each other.

It's because we love each other's company.

It's because we know that God put us together and, you know, we,

whether we don't really know what he's planning for us as a group yet,

um, we see little, little bits and pieces that, you know, maybe God's

calling us to something and, you know, we work through that together and.

Yeah, it's just, we know we, we make an effort.

You know, we've all got, we've all got very busy schedules, you know,

Alyssa, uh, with her job at F Fi G industry, and then also, you know,

with her, um, her band and her gig.

So it's very hard to, you know, to find time there.

And then, you know, I work four days a week and Roxanne works part-time as well.

And then we have kids and we have extracurricular activities and,

and everything to do as well, but, We, we are scheduling time.

It's, it's once a, once a fortnight, once every three weeks.

And if it goes beyond that, we're, we're texting each other and we're like, we

need to catch up because, you know, um, our glasses is, is swindling and we need,

and we need and we feel rejuvenated.

And that's a, like you, you feel your heart is full and your cup

is full when we see each other.

Um, because it's, yeah, it.

It's, it's a wonderful thing and it's very hard to put into words actually what the

feeling is after we do see each other.

But, um, it's, it's definitely something beautiful.

But I think that in our friendships, in meaningful connections, what we're

actually encountering, the thing that does feel our heart, I think, is that we're

encountering something of the image in the presence of God, that we are created

in relationship, poor relationship.

And so it's a foretaste, I guess, of that connection that

we also yearn for with the Lord.

Indeed that edification that happens.

So just tell me, there's some people who obviously through, whether it's

where they live, their lo physical location, or whether or not they've got

certain wounds in their heart where they haven't experienced this deep sort of

friendship that we are talking about, what's some advice that you might give

to someone who is in that position who perhaps hasn't experienced it, but

has this deep yearning like you did?

Before you met these girls, what are some of the things that

women in this position could do?

Well, I know for me, um, I just prayed a lot.

I just prayed that God would open a door, any a door.

Um, and, and I think for me that was that, you know, yearning to go back

into church and music ministry and ultimately that's where I met Alyssa.

And then obviously everything else spoke on from that.

So number one, pray for it.

And I guess just kind of keep your heart open, um, to what

the Holy Spirit is kind of.

Wanting to share with you and you know, where, um, he wants to lead you.

And also the sisterhood, um, conference, which you've just,

which has just passed as well.

And unfortunately we couldn't make it.

But Alyssa was there.

Um, you know, try and connect with people that way as well.

And also, I think your local parish.

I think you can meet.

I've met wonderful.

Many wonderful.

Women and families there as well.

Um, so yeah, and I will just, you know, pre groups.

Uh, there's also, I think there's something running in Melbourne at the

moment, some talks, you know, through, uh, some convents that they're the nuns

of certain convents that are putting on, you know, specifically for women.

Great place to find like-minded women who love God, who love the, you know,

and, you know, want to imitate our lady.

And, um, just want to just, just want to deepen their faith.

And I think that's, I think that's quite important.

I think you want to make sure that if you are yearning for that friendship

to think about what do you actually want in a friendship as well, you know?

And obviously if, um, Christ at the center of you, then I think you obviously

want people who are like-minded as well.

I think they're great opportu.

They provide great opportunities, I think for you to meet other people.

Yeah, absolutely.

And sisterhood is a great movement for that reason because we have

the national conference, but we also do the regional retreats.

And then one of the beautiful fruits is these local connect groups.

So women, no matter where they are, they just need one other woman.

Or they can contact the sisterhood movement and we can

place them in a connect group.

Where they can just meet with women.

And I know in my own life, sometimes the women that you've put in a

group with aren't the women that you would naturally go and pick.

Mm-hmm.

But it's amazing how God just knows who we need and what we

need at a particular season.

And for myself, there's been seasons where I've been placed in groups with women who,

you know, you might not naturally be drawn to, but who have become such solid friends

and, and we shared some really beautiful.

Experiences and, and being supportive of one another.

Mm-hmm.

So that's another one.

I really encourage women.

We'll have a link in the show notes to the sisterhood groups because I think

that is, it's a genuine challenge.

And I think in a post covid world, I noticed, and I heard this at Sisterhood,

that women are really struggling.

To connect and to get back into that swing of making time for friendship or even

like knowing where to go to meet people.

So it's so important.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

And I think we touched on this in um, Shalom as well, and I'd just like to

draw in those three points that are needed for any meaningful friendship.

Do you remember you've mentioned those.

Was it the three P's?

Yes.

It's the ones, I think I've got them written down here.

Thumb parent.

They were really great.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Actually, so the three things that you need for meaningful connection are Yeah.

Proximity, presence, and persistence.

Yeah.

So, you know, we're, um, praise God.

We're blessed that we all live within about 20 minutes of each other.

So that helps, uh, you know, um, and when we are together, we, we are

present with each other, you know, and we are there for each other.

We're not, it's not that, it's not that friendship where, I don't know,

you, you catch up once every couple of months and then you go back and then

you separate and you go back to your own lives and you never hear that person

again until, oh, actually I haven't, you know, until you text them in a couple of

months to, you know, want to catch up.

This is, we are present in our lives.

Fully, uh, fully, and we, they're apart from my husband, um, they're

the first people that I wanna share any type of news with.

If I'm struggling with something, I will speak to them and ask their

advice and guidance, you know, whether it be motherhood or, you know, send

little, you know, little things in your marriage kind of thing.

Um, they're the people that I wanna share my joys with, you know, and, and when

I do, they're, they're just so happy.

There's, there's no jealousy.

They are fully 100% happy for me and I for them as well when they share wonderful

news, um, you know, and, and persistence.

Look, we're I.

Definitely that's needed as well.

But that just comes so easy for us.

Uh, we just want to spend time with each other, so we put that very high

up on our list to make sure that we actually do, um, put in the time

to, to, to see each other, you know?

And yeah, just cuz it just, I don't know, it's just, it's just wonderful when we do.

Yes.

It's, it's so important.

And I think being aware of that, cuz you can live in close proximity to people,

but you can get so busy with your life that you don't see each other very often.

Mm-hmm.

And so I think you touched on this earlier, it's just about that

intentionality, like carving out intentional time for friendship

and you know, in our masterclass we talk about, I guess the

different areas of women's lives.

That, um, we, we looked at this area of connection and, and female friendship,

relationship, just how important it is.

We do enter a season as women where life does become busy.

You add a couple of children or a career and it starts to snowball.

And in that busyness, we can fall into the temptation of letting

go of some of the things that don't seem that important mm-hmm.

But actually have deep spiritual significance for us.

And I think friendship is definitely one of those arenas, those areas of

our life that we need to be really intentional about carving out.

One other point that I'd like to make is sometimes if we really

crave that sort of friendship and we can't find it, often say to people,

what kind of friend would you like?

And then go and be that kind of friend to others and sort of looking at cultivating,

I guess, the skills of friendship.

Like how do you actually do friendship?

What are those little things that build meaningful connection?

And I'd be interested to hear from you, your thoughts and what are some of the

skills that you think are really important for those deep, meaningful connections.

Oh goodness.

Um, that's a bit of a tough one.

I don't, I don't think I've ever, I've ever actually thought, thought about that.

You touched on it a couple of times that I picked up on it.

One was around gossip.

Yes.

Like one of the skills is learning just to sometimes keep things in check

and to hold someone else's confidence.

Yeah.

I think that's a very important skill.

Yeah, indeed.

And you know, I've definitely had friendships where, um, the

entire time we've been, you know, we've caught up is just surround,

you know, surrounding gossip.

That's pretty much the entirety of it.

And there comes a point, I think, in your life where you're like, oh, oh,

they're there and they're on their phone.

They're constantly, you know, checking their phone.

I'm sitting right there.

Or, you know, you actually, I, I run a phone call and I can hear

that they're distracted because I can hear, you know, the keyboard.

Um, someone's typing on the key.

I'm, I hate that.

Yeah, I hate that.

And I'm just like, if you're gonna, if you're gonna call me and you

wanna speak to me, then perhaps maybe gi give me that time, you know?

Um, And I, I don't like this, actually, this actually happened.

I don't, I, I've always felt that, um, it was like one of those diaries

diary things or, you know, once a week or once a fortnight, call Jess just

to check in and see how she's going.

But I, I don't think there's any, if there was any depth to it either.

It was just very shallow.

How you going?

How's this?

How's the work?

Yeah.

Great.

Okay.

Speak to you later.

Bye.

And I, I got to a point, I think also where I was, it got a little bit.

Frustrating and annoying because, you know, I could hear that that person wasn't

actually paying attention and I don't think very cared very much about what I

was going through or what I wanted to say because they were distracted typing on

a keyboard or, you know, if I was face to face with them, they were touching

their phone or checking their phone or, you know, scrolling through something.

And I just would sit there and I would think, well, why are we here

then if you don't wanna actually spend time with me and talk to me?

Yeah.

So definitely that.

Um, you know, uh, anything else?

I can't really think of anything that off the top of my head.

I think one thing that you girls are really good at is this meaningful

conversation, and it's sort of going below that surface level of, like you were

saying, that superficial level of what's happening, how's the weather doing this?

They're like, how are you really going?

Like, how's your faith?

How are you growing in your faith this week?

Or What book have you read?

Or what revelation has God given you this week?

Yeah.

To help you grow and I think some of those questions, Like,

yes, we all yearn to be seen.

No one loved for who we are.

Mm-hmm.

But I think that we can actually become bearers of Christ's image in

how we go out to others in friendship.

Cuz it's very much that two-way street.

So yeah.

I think one of the skills that women can grow in is learning

to ask meaningful questions that lead to meaningful connection.

Absolutely.

I think for us, what was, um, I don't think we had, we were kind

of just thrown into this situation in a way, you know, Covid was rife.

Um, no one knew what was going on.

There was definitely lots of conversation about that.

Um, but then it's, our friendship started, uh, very, you know, in a, in

a very, very bad time, I suppose, for the world and for what was happening.

Um, so we very quickly, I think just didn't.

We weren't never, I think on that shallow level, I think, um, very

quickly we were diving straight into, uh, some of these very, the deep,

straight away because we, our lives were just completely turned upside down.

And so, yeah.

Um, and I, it, it's con it stayed with us.

You know, we, we, it's one of those friendships where, you know, when

you just meet someone and you just know, it just feels like you've

been friends for your whole life.

Yes, we've only known each other for what a good three years.

Uh, and we, you know, we, when we go to maths together and you know, we,

we know our, you know, our priests are our friends and they're like, you've

only known each other for three years.

They cannot believe, you know, because we've probably had a life,

we've fit a lifetime of friendship and packed it into three years.

We know the ins and outs of our o of each other, you know, and like I said

previously, we, they're the first people that I want to, that I wanna speak to,

and, you know, and the gifts that they.

And the way that they speak and the, and the way that they live

out their faith is so inspiring.

Roxanne has this amazing trust in the Lord and that helps me, you know,

she's, uh, you know, sold homes and.

Didn't know, couldn't find a rental.

And she's like, it's okay.

God's got it.

I trust in him.

And I just sit here going, freaking, man, I would be freaking out right now.

She's like, no, I'm all good.

God's gonna provide, there's nothing that he can't do.

And I'm like, wow, that that deep trust just it.

It was there.

And of course God provided and they found something, you know?

And then even when they had to buy their home, the same thing, you know, they were.

No, this isn't for us.

This isn't for us, but I know God's got the right one for

us and we're just gonna wait.

And I'm just like, wow.

Like, just, just beautiful.

And that obviously feeds into my life as well.

Yeah.

You know, um, and then it's an edification.

Absolutely.

I think that's a very important element.

Yeah, of course.

And Alyssa's the same.

You know, she, she has our dream job.

We've always tell her that she works for, for, for, you know, for Catholic ministry.

Which is doing wonderful things.

And she gets to travel and she gets to do all that stuff as well.

But to see her bring that faith side into her, you know, this, her secular

world, which is, you know, her band, um, you know, as well, and it, it's,

we've all been transformed and changed.

By each other.

They would probably say that I sometimes perhaps say things that they wouldn't

think of, you know, or maybe some mothering advice or something else.

But we're always there and we're always bouncing things off each other.

Um, you know, and again, it's, I'm gonna bring it back to it's the fact that it's

for our ultimate good, um, everything is.

You know, and it's what God.

And we always remember that God has placed us together for a reason.

And um, right now this is, that reason is to just support each other and then

whatever comes in the future, so be it.

But for now, we are just there for each other and supporting

each other and helping each other along, along this journey.

Yeah.

It's so good, Jess.

So lovely.

And look, one thing that I really loved about your friendship, and

you've mentioned this with Alyssa, just praying the rosary, that you'd

never prayed the rosary before.

Sort of becoming friends Yep.

With these women.

But the fruits of that in your life, in Roxanne's life mm-hmm.

Um, have been incredible.

Like both of your husbands came back to their faith.

It is through you women.

Yep.

Praying the rosary and being committed.

And so you've transformed not only your marriage, your

family, your home through that.

So that's just so powerful.

That's been a huge witness to me actually.

Yeah.

It's, it's, um, it's fair and fasting.

Yeah.

It's been lovely to watch.

I didn't even know what a novena was.

You know, I, I knew my basic prayers and, you know, that was it.

But, um, yeah, deep, my prayer life definitely, um, got deeper

and better as well, you know?

Um, and yeah, it's just wonderful.

God's timing is different to our timing.

You know, Phil and I have been married for 11 years.

And I could never get him, couldn't get him to Matt's, uh, but through, um,

seeing me deepen my faith and, you know, teaching our girls and obviously stir

something in him and just, and I think that he had to come to that himself and I

think Dennis as well, Roxanne's husband, you know, um, it's wonderful because I

guess, I suppose through our witness and through the deepening of our fact, we've

been able to bring our husbands and even.

You know, I've even, you know, perhaps brought other people, um,

back to their faith as well, which is, which is quite beautiful.

Yeah.

And a big, and obviously ultimately grace.

Grace from God.

Yes.

Yeah.

So good.

But Jess, I guess there's so many people out there who have not experienced or

have been wounded in relationships.

What's your advice, I guess, to them, some thoughts around how they

can, some encouragement, I guess.

Yeah, well, you know, life is tough and, you know, we all have our ups and downs.

Um, and sometimes our hearts can be hardened when that happens, you know?

Um, it's very easy, I think, to just pull a, put a wall up and not let anyone in.

Um, you know, but I think in particular, through, through Christ, that's

where our, our healing comes from, that Ben has these beautiful women.

Surrounding you and around you.

Um, I think that's when you know those, you can chip away at the wall bit by bit,

you know, and, and break it down and, you know, uh, it, look, it takes a lot,

I suppose, to trust people again and, you know, whatever people have been through.

But I definitely know that having, um, strong faith-filled women in my life.

Has helped with that.

Yeah, it does.

And that's probably something, yeah.

Yeah.

It does soften us, doesn't it?

It does.

It does.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And I think one of those keys is also vulnerability, that when we are hurt, we

can make vows with ourselves that we'll never trust again, like you mentioned, or.

Never sort of share deeply again, but Brene Brown has this beautiful quote

where she says, vulnerability is the last thing I want you to see in me, but

it's the first thing I look for in you.

Mm-hmm.

And when we actually, when we start to share more deeply, we give other

people permission to do the same.

And it's really through that vulnerability that we enter into those deeper

relationships without vulnerability.

We stay on that very superficial level.

Absolutely I can, I can tell you that, um, there's been through,

through the last couple of years that we've known each other.

I'm gonna say Covid again because ultimately we were in Covid for two of the

three years that we've known each other.

So that's where a lot of the things, a lot of the struggles obviously

happened, but my faith was, was building and, um, and getting deeper.

And you know, obviously the minute that that happens, enemy's always

there to try and just come in there and, and distract you or.

Or put a barrier, you know, and there was, there was, I was, it was really tough for

me because I had had to work from home.

So I had no interaction with, you know, physical interaction with anybody.

Um, my husband, praise be God was able to continue working because

he was in the building industry.

Uh, so he would still get up in the morning and he would still go to work and

he, his routine didn't change very much.

But mine did, you know?

And then I had to, now I was thrown into the depths of homeschooling

and now, you know, I had to try and work and homeschool my child.

And I was very blessed that I had help.

I was still able to, you know, bring the younger one to my in-laws

or my mum, um, during the day.

Uh, so I got a little bit there, but, you know, the, the deeper I got the

enemy was definitely throwing some big curve balls, um, my way and, you

know, and I struggled a lot with.

The, with the scrolling and kind of getting my head into a lot of the, I

dunno, the crazy stuff that was going out there about Covid and things like that.

So that was really tough and that was putting a big wedge between

myself and my husband as well.

He would, you know, I would, he would come home and I would just, oh, I read

about this and I saw this and this and that, and he would, he would kind of get

a little bit annoyed because I suppose that's all he was hearing at work.

So to come home where he wanted a break, but then I hadn't

spoken to anybody that day.

He's the first person that I saw walk in the door.

Yeah.

So I didn't have that interaction.

That's right.

So the poor thing, I was kind of coming at him and that was a big

struggle for us, uh, because, um, I.

I think I was looking for, I was looking for connection in the wrong places.

I was looking for connection on Instagram or Facebook and whatever

was kind of falling out at me.

And obviously because of those algorithms, all I saw were those

things that I was kind of looking, so there was no break from it.

And, you know, the, the girls kind of helped.

We all obviously had our really big things that we were all going through,

I think, during that time, you know, and they, if it wasn't for them, you

know, I, I could tell you that I'm, I'm pointing at my coffee table in the front

room right now because, I remember a moment where I just grabbed my rosary

beads and fell on on my needs and did a whole rosary crying because, you know, I

was going through something really tough back then and I wasn't expecting this to

happen either course, but, but, um, you know, God through that, God definitely.

Um, and again, through the suffering, um, God just brings about, he'll

never use anything for bad.

He'll use something always for the good and he'll always

bring good out of something.

And I really do believe that, you know, those incidents, um, Is basically

what has strengthened my faith and I think, uh, strengthened my marriage

as well, um, and my friendships.

And there's no, I, I can tell you now that there's probably nothing

that the world can throw at me that I know that I can't get through with.

The help of our Lord and the grace of our lady and my beautiful friends

know that I've got their support.

Just before Easter, I had a really challenging time.

I'm, I'm heavily involved in my, in my local parish and I love it and.

I was prepping for all the gie and holy wheat, and it was really stressful.

I had Julia who was sick, um, with the throat infection on antibiotics,

and then I was sick as well.

Um, but I was spending so much time there, getting things ready and I

just, I, the girls were, you know, calling me and asking me, are you okay?

What can we do?

I'm like, Thank you so much, but you know, it's nothing that you can do.

I have to do this.

And they would call me and I'd I, I remember distinctly, I spoke to Alyssa.

I'm like, I don't know why the Lord is like, what God knew I had so much to do.

Why did he make me sick?

Why did he make Julius sick and why is he packing just all this extra stuff on

me right now when he knows I'm just so busy and I've just got so much to do.

And she turned around and she said, because he wants you to trust him.

And I'm like, Hmm.

Yes.

Good point.

Good point.

Thank you.

But I, I would, I would not have gotten that response from anybody

else, any other friendship.

I would've said, well, why don't you just turn around and

tell 'em that you can't do it?

Yeah.

That you, you know, you quit.

But she's like, no.

And I'm like, okay, good call.

And Roxanne was the same.

Um, I was, she called me, she's like, how are you?

And I just, you know, vomited it out a whole Oh, really?

Of what was going on.

Yes.

I'm like, this is going on and this is going on.

And she just, and she said, okay.

She said, have you brought God into it?

And I said, No, I haven't.

And so no other friend would've called me and said that to me.

Yes.

You know?

Um, and I was doing both.

There's boldness there, isn't there?

There is.

You have that, that closeness.

Yes.

You know, and it's, and and it, it just made, they just made it sound so simple.

I'm like, yes.

I, I've forgotten.

I'd forgotten why I was doing this.

Um, and, you know, sorry.

That's okay.

Yeah.

Can you just, can you just go back my silly phone?

I had turned it off, but it just, um, that's okay.

Can you just say no one else?

You wouldn't have got that response from anyone else.

Yeah, I mean, no other friendship.

Uh, lemme start that again.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So I would not have gotten that response from other friend.

They would've all told me to give up and just tell 'em that you can't do it.

But they were right there with me, even though they couldn't

actually do the work for me.

But I know that they were praying for me and we got through it and it was all fine.

Uh, but to have that solidness, um, and the fact that every single piece of advice

that they give me is Christ related.

Yes.

It's always pointing you back to trust faith.

Absolutely faith related.

And you know, as Catholics, we're supposed to live at our faith, not be

the closet Catholics, but you know, our Catholic comes out, Catholicism

comes out on a Sunday when we go to mass and then it gets put away again.

You know, we live it.

And um, and, and that's what I love about it.

And just one more point I wanna make is that I am so

emboldened now with my own faith.

Seeing these, you know, seeing Alyssa get up and talk, you know, at AT conferences

and at the sisterhood conference as well.

Um, You know, and, and Roxanne, we went to dinner last week and she was

evangelizing to the waitress and we just sat there and it was the best thing ever.

You know, what other dinner can you go to with some friends and they're

gonna just grab a random person and just start talking about Jesus to them.

You know?

That's so cool that I'm not, I'm not a, I wanna say that I was

ashamed to talk about my faith.

I was, and it was something that was very personal to me.

Um, and I suppose, I didn't really advertise it very much,

but after meeting these women, I actually don't care anymore.

And I will try as much as I can to bring Christ into any conversation.

Um, probably still have to learn about a time and place.

Um, but I'll, I, sometimes I can go in, guns are blazing just

to, you know, talk about Jesus.

I'm just, I just, I just know that, um, to have him in your life helps you

with, All the struggles that you have, he's the only one that can help you.

Amen.

So true.

Yep.

Amen.

Well, it's so beautiful to um, to have this time with you, Jess, this week.

And I really, I wish I could rewind the clock two weeks ago cuz right

now, two weeks ago we were getting ready to so have lunch together.

We were actually, yes.

So I just wanna really encourage women that if they are struggling

with friendship, if they are really.

Experiencing those pangs of loneliness to get in touch with the

sisterhood movement or local parish or see what retreats are happening.

Because I think it's where it's when you connect in a, I guess, that

church setting that you instantly go to that deeper level, and

that's what we're all craving and.

Such, such a gift, so it's so beautiful.

I'm so blessed to know you and, and the girls down in

Melbourne, and thank you so much.

Oh, that's okay, Karen.

I'll just, we can't wait to see you again in person.

Oh, it's so nice.

It's always edifying.

It is, it is.

Thank you for having me On today, ladies, if you are interested in

finding out more about the sisterhood movement, can I invite you to visit

our website, www.sisterhood.org.au.

The Sisterhood Movement is a national Catholic women's movement here in

Australia, and our heart is really to provide a point of connection for

women so that they can enter into these deeper bonds of sisterhood

with other women of all ages and stages in life, and to grow in their

faith and their personal vocation.

If you are interested in finding about a connect group in your area, you can come

and send us an email@infosisterhood.org.au and we'll get back to you about

whether or not there's a group in your area or we do have starter packs

to support you in starting a group.

Until next week, ladies, have a beautiful week and God bless you.