All right, what's going on, everybody?

We are happy to be here.

After two weeks of no episodes, it's kind of crazy.

We had a little snafu with last week's episode, so we pulled it down out of request.

Bummer.

Yeah, it was.

We were talking about morning in the holiday season, and some of our listeners were struggling with that at this specific time, and they asked us to release it after the beginning of the year, so.

So we went ahead and pulled it down just out of respect for that and, you know, the people who are trying to still process things.

But we will be airing it in January, and we love you guys and thank you for all the support.

But today we are gonna talk about anxiety.

Hot topic.

So, yeah, and the goal is to.

It's kind of goes along with the Advent, you know, thing going on right now where, you know, peace is this week, although it's coming out next week.

So it won't be peace next week, but you guys can.

Whatever.

So I wanted to take anxiety to peace and discuss, like, maybe some personal anxieties and how we cope with them and that resolve of, like, how do we structure some sort of peace in the midst of this chaotic, everyday, anxious filled, you know, world?

So that's kind of the goal for today's episode.

I'm Derek.

We've got Shaliza returning, and we've got Shaelin, our first time on here.

Hopefully there will be some massive conflict between the two of us.

It would be wonderful.

Although if it's the two of you, I'll let it go because I'm not jumping in between that one.

I want to cut that episode too, so.

Yeah, right.

You want to just introduce yourselves a little bit, just maybe?

Sure.

I mean, I know you have a.

Little bit, but, yeah, everybody's kind of seeing all my stuff.

So what do you do at the church?

How about that?

What do I do?

You were on like a month ago.

So what are some things that you do at the church?

Okay.

One of my big passions is the Operation Christmas child ministry.

That is actually one of the things that hooked me in here.

I came in while the season was wrapping up a couple of years back, and.

And it worked out where Lizzie had been running it, but she just had too many hats going on, and so it kind of fell by the wayside.

So I was like, sure, I'll pick it up and run with it.

And it has been an incredible blessing.

I love it.

Ministry here has been so incredibly supportive.

They let me get away with all sorts of stuff.

Shenanigans all over the place.

So I have been really blessed.

Good luck on.

But no, that's my big thing.

And then I do stream tech alternating with Casey every other weekend.

So people are always coming up to me like, oh, I didn't know you were here.

And I'm like, that's cause I'm in a little room around the corner, come say hi.

Always hiding.

Although I hear that there's gonna be signs up that nobody's allowed to come say hi anymore.

Yeah, no, during service.

No more.

No, it's mainly for people who are trying to train on the soundboard.

So just being able to focus on the sound that's happening without people having conversations in the background.

Cutting down distraction.

But see, we were set up as a green room broadcast so as a place for the band to come in.

They're gonna be okay with it.

I don't know.

I don't know how it's gonna play out.

But yeah, I've heard that it's not gonna be as big a deal when he's like preaching.

It's mainly just during the music when we're actively working on the soundboard fair.

It probably causes some people anxiety for lots of voices to be in there.

I mean, I get it, but some people I know get annoyed with a lot of people in there.

Yeah.

So.

I just crank up the headphones, man.

But teach their own.

Okay.

Crank up the speakers.

Oh, yeah, just drown them out.

The most passive aggressive route possible.

No, no, just be aggressive.

Be aggressive.

It's a cheerleading.

Well then I would just forcefully remove them from the room.

That would be being aggressive.

Well, now you're laying hands.

And we've got a safety team for that.

Yeah, yeah, There you go.

Now they've installed cameras.

Exactly.

Can't get away with anything now.

Nope, nope.

I don't know.

We got a snowman covering the window right now.

People can't see what we're doing it.

Now we got a snowman over the camera.

Unless they're in the office, then they can see everything that's going on in there.

Is the camera still?

Oh, yeah, I forget about that.

Yeah, we're being watched at times.

All right, Shaelyn, what about you?

All right.

Yeah, as you've heard, I'm Shaelyn.

So I'm one of the teen group.

I'm 18 now, so senior year.

Very interesting.

Time to be alive.

My main job is, well, it's either being in the back online sound.

So I mess with the soundboard.

I make sure it sounds okay.

I'm not fully trained on it, but I have been doing it for a while, so I generally just go by ear.

Not technically a professional is what I'm saying.

But I can make it work.

I can turn it on and I can make them sound decent.

If it ever doesn't sound decent and something's going horribly wrong, that means Derek's on the soundboard.

And do not blame me.

My second job, I'd say, is just probably true.

Actually throw them under the bus.

Oh, yeah.

Huh.

My second job, I'd say, is just following my mom around and whatever she's doing.

Operation Christmas Child and, oh, now we're doing Honduras stuff.

And I gotta fold boxes and handyman, essentially.

So that's kind of all I do.

You're my fuzzy little sidekick.

That's terrible.

Yeah.

Right on.

So, yeah, so we're gonna talk about anxiety today.

I know some of you out there deal with it.

Probably more than want to admit to it.

So welcome to the Truth response.

All right, and we're back.

And yes, perfect.

Father God, we just thank you for being here, being with us, because you say that whenever, two or more gathered in your name, you are there.

And, Lord, we thank you.

We thank you for your presence and for the peace that you bring into our lives.

We know sometimes we get distracted and we stop focusing on you, and that's where we start falling.

Lord, help us to remember that you are the prince of peace.

Father, pray for today's discussion and blessings on all who are listening.

In Jesus name, amen.

I love how.

Just kind of cool looking around, how we have different stages and ages in life here, sitting here discussing it.

Yeah.

You know, because it's like, you're 18, you're 36.

Seven.

Turned 37.

Happy birthday.

That's right.

And I'm 55, you know, so it's like different walks of life.

So maybe that'll be kind of cool.

Yeah.

Or maybe it won't.

Perspectives of different generations on anxiety.

Yeah.

Yeah.

All right, so what.

What's the.

What's a thing that is something that causes you anxiety in life?

Anybody can answer this, but what's something that causes you anxiety?

I mean, I think a big thing, just representing my generational aspect right now, would be the school system.

Right now, I'm homeschooled personally, so I don't have to deal with the very intense anxiety of public school.

But I hear plenty of stories of people having to deal with that.

The stress of, you know, the work assignments, getting a lot of homework, having to do that on top of all the other classes you're doing, and generally the stressful environment of the people around you, maybe not getting along with your teachers or fellow classmates, there's drugs, there's like all these horrible things going on.

People are getting stabbed in the bathroom, Stuff like that, where it's like just.

It's like, made to be stressful for you practically.

And while I can't relate to the public school aspect, I can relate to that same aspect of.

We are kind of the generation.

Based on what I've heard of, people think that we aren't learning because of these environments that we are in.

And so we kind of have to put up a front of, no, we are learning and we have to prove our worth of.

We are learning to read, we are intelligent, we are getting education.

People don't take you seriously.

Yeah, I mean, I've had plenty of times where people are like, oh, yeah, you don't know multiplication.

And I'm like, no, I do.

I really do.

I promise you, I know multiplication.

It just was a lot more stressful to learn multiplication.

So I'd say that's a big thing.

Okay.

I think fear of the unknown, uncertainty, when we are focusing on all the things that we don't know, we don't have answers to, that's.

That's pretty scary.

That causes a lot of anxiety.

You know, what, what's going to happen next year?

You know, especially after coming out of, you know, coronavirus, you know, when we were all shut down, different places, different people's experiences and isolation, the statistics on that, what people dealt with and the anxiety levels that people reached and epidemic issues with that.

And I think we're still.

People are still dealing with that.

You hear things about, like, Corona babies, ones that spent the first year of their life isolated, so they're, you know, even.

They're having issues adjusting to people suddenly or, you know, just things that none of us really understood would happen, that were faced with for the first time.

Sure.

Yeah.

I think for me, one of my biggest is somewhere actually in between the two of you.

It's.

It's the struggle of, like, Having a complex, like, problem and not knowing, like, how to navigate it.

Right.

So it's like that fear of, okay, what if I don't succeed in this?

What if I don't solve this problem?

What if, you know, and.

And usually you can see what would happen if you do.

Right?

Like, you know, the.

You get past it or whatever.

But then the.

Am I smart enough to solve this problem?

And, you know, and that's one of the things that.

Actually, it's almost debilitating for me at times, especially with having my own business.

You know, it's like I get stuck and then start shutting down.

And recently came across a podcast that talked about the.

The idea of the.

What do they call it?

Not a get over it, but, like, I'll figure it out.

That's what it is.

I'll figure it out mentality where, like, you got to take that.

That complex problem and realize that that complex problem is just a bunch of simple problems, and you got to break it down into its more simple form.

And I haven't been able to apply that yet because I just.

I mean, I literally just saw the podcast, but it was.

That was a little bit of a stress reliever just thinking about it that way.

But, man, that's one of my biggest.

Is just.

It's debilitating.

And then that leads into all kinds of thought processes, right?

Like, where it's like, well, if I don't figure this out, well, my family is going to continue to suffer for it, you know, or, you know, when do I give up on the business thing, you know, and when do I just go get a job?

You know, But God told me to be here, so how long, you know, goes down that whole rabbit trail.

And so that's my biggest one right.

Now is that that was kind of.

Okay.

That brings me to kind of a cool book here.

If y' all aren't familiar with Louis Giglio.

He's a pastor of a huge church up in Atlanta.

Great speaker.

All of his videos are awesome.

So he put out a book, and I actually bought this for Shaelyn, and she didn't read it, So I read it, and I'm like, wow, this is something I need to.

And it's called Putting an X through Anxiety, which is kind of a cringy title, but he has a lot of really good information.

He speaks to the season in his life where he was pretty much crippled by anxiety.

He was housebound, but it was kind of interesting.

Some of the stuff he talks about, he actually.

That scripture that most of us know.

Let me see if I can pull it up.

Okay.

First, Peter five.

Seven, cast all your anxiety on him because he cares for you.

And he mentions that if you go back to the Greek translation, anxiety in this verse means to divide or to pull apart.

So our anxiety is pulling us and going into pieces, you know, or thought.

It kind of made me think that, you know, we can't focus.

We're too jumbled.

And that was kind of interesting way of thinking about it.

I love it when they throw in Greek and Aramaic and we get back and really see the meat of it.

But that was kind of cool about that.

Yeah.

I'm really thankful for.

This is like one good thing that's come from the Internet.

I'm really thankful for the fact that we can just type it in, you know, like what's the Greek here?

The meaning of the word anxiety in this passage, you know?

Right.

Like we can actually just type that in, you know, and, and it comes up and I mean there's argument of reliability of course, you know, but that's everything on the Internet, you know.

But for the most part, everything that I've ever come across with that has been solid and legit.

I mean it took a year of Greek in college, which was a nightmare by the way, a very hard language and Hebrew is even harder.

So there's that.

But then I don't remember hardly any of it.

Just, just so that is there.

We don't use it well, we know zero.

So we won't be testing you.

But it's not all Greek to me.

I can say that anyways, anyway.

Yeah, but that's something that I love that we have the ability to actually go back to the original context and understand what we had translated into English, what the full context of it was meaning in their day.

And the fact that.

And he brings it up a couple of times is there's so many verses in the Bible talking about anxiety and stress and fear and.

And so this is not a new thing.

This is not a recent Modern Society issue.

It was just unreal in Abraham's day as it is today.

So what is it when anxiety hits?

What does that usually look like for you guys?

How do you express that?

I mean my experience is a little different because I have like a non diagnosed actual anxiety disorder.

So it's a bit more intense than like your usual kind of thing.

I go through actual like physical pain, which I don't know if it's like a universal thing.

Obviously I can't really cross reference with how other people are feeling.

Sure.

But.

So mine gets a bit more intense, but I'd say there are plenty of fat that other people can relate to.

Even if you just get anxious occasionally.

I mean a big thing with anxiety is that if it gets bad enough, it turns into an actual fight or flight response.

So now that again is more severe response to things.

But it's little things like we're out of milk and I need it for a specific recipe and you get so anxious that you build yourself up into your brain convincing itself that it's actually in danger.

And that could be so harmful because you are just living in this constant state of I am in danger because the milk's gone.

And that doesn't invalidate the problem and doesn't invalidate the fact that you're anxious about it.

But unless you're willing to, like, you know, actually work through that, that's how it's going to affect you eventually.

It just keeps building on itself.

Yeah, that's good.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I think it depends on what the anxiety is.

You know, if it is something.

I was in different situations, like somebody is in front of me acting in a certain way that makes me not feel safe.

That's a different level of anxiety than, oh, shoot, you know, I've got a flat tire in the middle of the night, you know, or how am I going to pay the electric bill?

Or, you know, different situations, different things.

But I think a lot of it is, it has been.

My general response is to react and not necessarily coherently.

You know, it's a panic sort of thing.

Take action.

Yeah.

And I am trying to learn.

I'm going to put in a plug for Celebrate Recovery right now.

Yes, yes.

There's this incredible mug and I don't know if you can read it.

It says celebrate Recovery and it has part of the serenity prayer on the back made by yours truly over there.

Really awesome looking strider design.

Yes, very cool.

But I am in a Celebrate Recovery program and what that is is a Christian 12 step program.

And the major tenants of that.

First of all, first thing, step one is acknowledging that I can't.

I can't control anything.

I'm not in control.

It's just the way it is.

I can't control what other people do.

I can't control whether the sun's going to rise.

I can't control that.

And step two is recognizing who can.

And that of course, is God.

And then step three is saying, okay, I am going to release my anxiety, my striving to control things, and I'm going to give it to him.

So the first three steps is basically the first three steps of dealing with anxiety applies to alcoholism, anger, gambling, you name it.

It's the same process for dealing with it.

It's realizing that I'm not in control, realizing who's in control and surrendering that control.

And he doesn't reference it that way, doesn't say those exact words.

But pretty much that is his realization, working through it.

It's surrendering.

Yeah.

So that's so hard.

Oh, gosh.

Isn't it?

That's so hard.

Yeah.

That's why I've struggled a lot with resources like that, because while I recognize the value in it, I think it's an amazing thing.

I have an issue with it being oversimplified, and I'm not saying that's necessarily doing that, but I think it is.

It is simplifying it enough to.

Where any audience can understand it.

It's.

Anybody can walk through the doors of cr, look at that, and understand, okay, these are the steps I need to take.

I think, for me, I've always had an issue with stuff like that, just because it's too simplified.

I mean, the human mind is so complex and every little thing is so, like, intricate and nuanced that it's so hard to, like, get yourself into the spot where you can say, oh, it's just 1, 2, 3.

And so that's always been a bit of an issue for me.

I find that interesting, and I wonder if that is generational, because I know that, like, Gen X.

You're Gen X, aren't you?

I don't know.

Something like that.

Yeah.

Will and I go back and forth on that.

You're Gen X. I don't think you're as old as my parents, are you?

Yeah, I'm same age as your mom.

You're Gen X, then.

Yeah.

I didn't realize you were.

You're as old as my mom.

Not that that's old.

I'm not saying that.

Right.

No.

But then, like, Then there's, like, two sets of millennials.

There's the elder millennials and then there's the younger millennials.

And somewhere in that divide there, there became a.

The.

The major separation that I see is there's the figure it out, we'll get through it, suck it up attitude of the.

The elder millennials and above.

Right.

It got weaker as it went along, you know, but.

And then you've got the, like, so nuanced niche.

Every single individual is so, like.

There's so many things like what you were describing, you know, like that idea that.

That there's just so much comp.

Complexity to each individual that you can't take something that is simple and apply it.

And I think that there is some sort of a breakdown on both sides with that.

Is that.

Sure.

I get that.

Each of us, you know, we all come from different places, and we're all a conglomeration of the things that we have done in response to Things that have been done around us, you know, our whole life.

But at the same time, like, as complex as that is, there is some suck it up and deal with it that we have to apply.

That is a very simple.

I mean, a bottle.

It is a simple thing that.

To it that is that, that, you know, you got to get over it.

Like, you can't just break down, you know, you've gotta, you've gotta move through it.

But there's somewhere in between is where that all falls together.

You know what I mean?

Like, there it is very complex and yet it is very simple.

Not pointing at you, but just those two things, you know?

And so like old school, I almost, I almost wonder where that.

That lands.

And I know that there's some.

There's, there's gonna be difference for everybody.

Right?

Everybody's a little different.

And we shouldn't, we shouldn't judge others for how they deal with things.

At the same time, like, I think that it's okay to be like, all right, you've, you've, you've, you've done your circling enough.

Now it's time to just move on, you know?

But then to others, it's like, okay, you gotta actually flesh some of this out.

Like, there's, there's more to this than what you're.

Well, that's why there's 12 steps, and these were just the first three.

So, you know, it is, It's a process, but you have to start somewhere.

Right?

And that was one of starting.

Like, you gotta just start.

Right?

A lot of people get stuck before the start.

Exactly.

Yeah.

You just wallow in your misery and not just.

But it's where we are used to being.

And sometimes we don't realize that there is a better option.

This is the way it is.

This is the way it's always been.

This is the way it always will be.

We get stuck in that mindset and, you know, that's one of the things.

If we're going to move on or heal or get better, we do have to start looking at what the problem is.

He talks about in his book.

One of the things that a lot of people get stuck with is believing that anxiety is the problem and it isn't.

It's the symptom of other problems like anger.

And she and I were talking about this earlier, and that was her point.

Yeah, it's a feeling.

But we have to understand where's that feeling coming from.

If we're going to be able to deal with the anxiety, we've got to figure out what's causing the anxiety?

And we like to say in recovery, the issue is never the issue.

It's never the thing up front and obvious that you generally will blame it on.

Generally there's something back there in the back that's actually causing what's going on.

Yeah.

Something interesting that learned in sociology in college was this idea of fear cycles and the fact that most people get into arguments because I've said something that's triggered a fear in you.

Yes.

And then that has caused you to then say something that's going to trigger a fear in me.

And until we break that fear cycle, it's just gonna keep.

Because you're living in that old situation.

Right.

Or even just a false fear, a false anxiety.

I mean, it may not even be caused by a situation.

It could be caused by a worry of a situation.

Is it false if you're truly experiencing it, though?

Well, for myself, I think so.

I mean, using myself as an example, like one of the things that.

How I express anxiety sometimes is getting angry and raising my voice.

And that's not the source of it.

The source is the worry.

I'm worried about something.

And so you're afraid something someone says triggers something that.

Yes, but see, my biggest fear is being alone.

Okay?

That's my biggest fear.

I've never been left alone.

Like, I've never experienced that.

But it comes from somewhere.

But.

But that's what I'm saying is, like, it's not necessarily a valid thing because.

Just because you don't know why you have that feeling doesn't make it invalid.

It's just you haven't figured it out yet.

So.

Okay, so maybe validity is the wrong word for it.

You know, maybe that's.

That's not the right thing.

I would say it.

I would say it's an illogical fear because of the fact that I am caring enough and charismatic enough that I'm gonna have people always.

It may not be the same people.

I may say things that run people out of my life.

I may have say, you know, whatever.

I may do things that run people, but I'm at least caring enough for people and loving enough towards people and charismatic enough that I'm always gonna have people.

So you're trying to rationalize away your feelings, but that feeling is still there, and it's coming from something.

Okay, so what?

That's a good question.

You've got to figure that one out.

I've got to figure that out.

That's what I'm saying.

You surrender it to God.

Okay, well, I can give it up.

And you can spend some time.

Well, you're not.

You're not giving it up per se, is what you're surrendering is like, God, I can't figure this out.

You're going to have to reveal this to me.

This is something that is causing a problem in my life, and I need you to show me what it is.

What's what, how to address this.

I think that's where one of the biggest issues with anxiety comes from, is that again, rolling back to that fight or flight response of it's less about the feeling itself and more how you react to it.

So everybody's going to be feeling it, but when it becomes an issue, it's when you take action upon that.

It's when you react and make stupid decisions.

Stupid decisions.

You do those impulse buys.

I mean, that's where, like impulse buying comes from, is it's a mix between anxiety and greed.

It's that idea of both.

I want that, and so I think it will help me to have it.

And also that I am scared to be without it because I believe that it will give me something that I'm looking for.

So it's that anxiousness that drives us to make impulse decisions, and it drives us to become outwardly angry at people around us that don't deserve it.

And that's really where it becomes, like, destructive.

Yeah, that's good.

Of course, you also have to, like, you have to balance that with not internalizing it as well, because as we've talked about before, like a big issue with previous generations is that they internalize it too much.

And if you don't acknowledge that the anxiety is still an issue and you.

Just stuff it down and ignore it.

Down, you just don't deal with it, then sometimes just, you know, moving forward, just ignoring it can be even more destructive because you're destroying yourself rather than the people around you.

Yeah, yeah.

There's always a cost.

Mm, yeah, that's true.

That's true.

And sometimes it's yourself just digging deeper into that hole.

Well, and physical issues, mental issues, anxiety.

Is one of those things that definitely, like you were talking, like, it can manifest in physical.

And it does.

If it's not tripped, you know, it's not taken care of, if it's not dealt with.

But it will.

I mean, it's not a.

It's not a matter of if, but when.

Because, I mean, that's.

Heart attacks are caused by it.

You know, there's all kinds of things, you know.

Yeah.

I mean, that's a big Part of our family history is it's the, I mean, talk about generational trauma.

It's that rather than like cancer getting passed down or some other kind of disease that you have genetically passed down, it's a habit.

It's that habit that's a reaction to the anxiety and it's those things.

Like, so, I mean, we have a big history of women marrying horrible men and then getting so stressed out about it that they get themselves into these horrible, like, physical situations.

I mean, everything from Ms. To arthritis to hair loss to like just the worst thing, shingles to the worst thing you can imagine just because of that intense, stressful environment that gets passed down.

Choices that we've made in our lives that lead to these situations.

And yet it's a cycle.

It's a cycle and knowing, stopping and realizing that the arthritis isn't the problem.

It was the stress, it was what caused the stress that triggered the arthritis or whatever, you know, the thing was.

But it's the ailments that are coming out of, you know, the cost to your physical body, you know, from being so anxious and stressful.

Which reminds me of another big difference of the anxiety situation between generations.

Medication.

My generation is very responsive to medication.

And it was also a big issue, especially in the 2000s, where medication things were being very massively over prescribed because suddenly people were having these massive issues.

It was being acknowledged now, but rather than actually deal with it, they were using medication to cover it up and they were over prescribing things, which made the situation even worse.

And while I do believe in the power of medication, I do believe that some people need it in order to stay alive.

I also think that if you take it in access, if it is your first choice, like it is for many of the people in my generation, it's.

The easy way, take a pill yourself.

From actually fixing it.

You are trying to medicate the symptom when you haven't dealt with the actual disease.

Yeah, interesting.

Interesting situation I got myself into, not, not too awful long ago, probably about a year, year and a half ago, I was trying to figure out like, okay, I have done diets before, you know, I have, you know, done all kinds of different things.

And it's a struggle for me to, to lose weight even while doing the diets, you know, and so my doctor had prescribed me Wellbutrin, which is used to help people to like, curb some of the cravings of different things like cigarettes and that sort of thing.

But it's also an anti, like anxiety med.

Right.

The problem Is.

Is for the first, like two weeks or so.

It ramps up your anxiety because it gives you that.

That energy that you.

You're lacking to deal with problems.

But it doesn't balance off until.

With the other side of the medication.

That balances things until about two weeks in.

Wow.

Which is crazy.

And my doctor was even like, she was like, look, if you are suicidal, like, I will not prescribe this to you.

It's one of the leading causes of teen suicide.

And, like, is prescribing this medication.

So I'm not gonna give it to you if you're suicidal or whatever.

But I had never experienced anxiety to the extent that I did until I got on that.

And for the.

I mean, like, just waiting for pizza to show up for lunch here at the church one day, like, I. I felt like I was gonna have a heart attack.

Like, I was so anxious over this stupid pizza.

And it was.

It was dumb.

It wasn't even time for the pizza to be there.

And I was super, you know, just over the top anxious about it and just.

I couldn't.

I don't know, it was a mess.

And so I didn't stay on it very long.

I didn't help.

So I was like, we're gonna pull this medication.

I don't need this in my life.

But the side effects of a lot of the medications too, you gotta be careful with.

And so all this over diagnosis of things just drives me nuts a lot of times.

And I know that's an unpopular opinion.

Hot take.

What do you mean?

Like, labeling.

Like, oh, my gosh.

Like, everyone's on the spectrum these days.

Oh, yeah, everybody's on the spectrum.

You know, if everyone's on the spectrum, nobody's on the spectrum.

That's like the whole thing.

Like, it, it kills me, and I think it hinders people from getting the help that they need, the ones that actually need it.

You know, I think that's.

That's part of my problem with the younger generation is, is not so much that all the complexities, but the fact that, like, they've got to be a part of all of the.

I've got to be diagnosed with something, you know, like, I have to have this issue or that issue.

It's like, yo, you're just a normal human being.

Like, you gotta step up and just deal with it to some degree, you know, like now.

And I say that and I know it's, it's, it's.

It's one of those hot takes that people don't like to hear or don't agree with all the time, but I think that with the extent in which it's gone to.

It has hindered people from being able to.

To effectively get the help that they need, the people that actually need the help with it.

And that's not to say that, you know, I wouldn't judge one person or the other person for saying they are, but just the vast swath of people, it's just.

It feels almost impossible for everybody to have something like, you know what I mean?

Like, it's just.

Just too much, you know?

Yeah, yeah.

It's one of those things where you definitely need a balance.

So while I do agree it's kind of over the top at this point, you know, when you say to somebody who has an issue that everybody has that issue, it then invalidates that issue.

I do think it is destructive in that way.

So hang on, let's stay there for a minute.

Because I struggle with that.

I struggle with the idea that it invalidates it.

I don't understand how it invalidates it trivializes it.

It's like.

But that's on the perspective of the person.

That's that they're assuming that you're.

You're trivially trivializing it at that point or that you're.

That you're minimalizing and invalidating it.

Whereas, like, I don't know how.

How do I express an opinion like that without it doing that?

Because, like, I don't mean to say that, you know, for instance, if I were to say everybody's anxious, you shouldn't, you know, you gotta step up and just deal with it at some point.

Like saying that to you, who's somebody who's got anxiety issues, like you've said, like, I don't want to invalidate your feelings in that.

But at the same time, like, it's true.

Everybody deals with some anxiety.

Right?

Yeah.

I'd say it's one of those situations where, yes, it can be true.

It can be entirely like you are just speaking the truth of what you know is factual.

Sometimes it doesn't need to be said.

Sure.

Because this is one of the situations where you're not just talking some, you know, impersonal political topic.

Right.

You know, you're not talking about some war overseas.

It's not debating.

You're talking about this person's feelings and personal experience.

And when you are talking about that, you have to be careful with what you say because it's not about your personal opinion.

It's about how they're dealing with something.

See?

And I struggle with that.

That.

The idea that somebody's, oh, how does it.

How does it go?

Somebody's perspective on reality, like, their.

Their, like, view of reality is important.

Like, I struggle with that.

Like, I don't think that my view of reality is important.

I don't believe that your view of reality is important.

I believe that reality is important.

So how do I.

How do I bridge that gap?

Because at that rate, like, if.

If it's.

If we're talking about somebody who's personally struggling with something, I don't want to validate something that shouldn't be validated.

Like, I understand that you're dealing with that, but at what point is it.

Do you then usher them into moving on with it?

You know what I mean?

Like, especially if it's something that's not.

That's not your place, though.

But if you're coming from.

You're trying to come from a place of discerning what's ultimately right and wrong here, whether that person is truthfully struggling with something.

But I shouldn't know.

And I'm not saying you personally, I'm not speaking you, Derek.

I mean, just people in general, we don't know what the other person's dealing with.

So how can we ever judge that?

Which I agree.

I struggle with the same thing where everybody's, you know, claiming to have some sort of issue.

And what's frustrating to me is a lot of people use that as an excuse not to try or not to, oh, well, I can't do that because of this.

And it leaves themselves.

They're handicapping themselves.

And that's so frustrating to me that really.

Do you want to live with that limitation?

Is the fear of stepping out and challenging yourself that bad that, you know.

So I guess.

I guess what I'm trying to say is the.

The gap that I want to bridge is instead of just being apathetic, right?

Like, I don't want to just be like, yeah, I don't care, because at some point that's how I feel.

It's like, about other people's issues, other.

People'S feelings about things, right?

Like, no, but seriously, I mean, it's.

I'm just.

I'm just being honest, right?

It's out there at some point.

Like, you're, like, you're talking about.

When they're using it as a crutch, right?

As that excuse.

Like, I just don't.

I don't care enough to validate your feelings on that at that point, you know?

But I don't want to be disrespectful either.

You know what I mean?

Like, I want to care about people.

I feel feelings that other people feel.

Like I have some of that empathy.

Right.

I'm not.

I'm not nearly the empathetic person that I used to be when I was younger.

I am not.

But.

But I still do feel welcome to getting older.

Right.

I definitely feel it.

I remember saying when I was young, I'll never be that guy that says freaking young people.

And I've said it a plethora of times, just the last week, probably, to be honest with you, but.

But yeah, I still feel that though.

Like, I don't want to just dismiss people.

So where is that.

Where's that line?

Where's that medium?

Where's that?

How do you deal with something like that in that situation, you know?

Yeah, I think again, people are so nuanced.

It does depend on the person.

You have to know the person well enough.

Like, obviously you should know the person well enough if you're getting into this type of conversation with them to know, like, their sensitivity level, where they stand already.

There are some people where you are never going to be able to convince them outside of their own personal opinion, and that's okay.

Like, it's those certain things where I think it comes back to our issue of control.

We believe that because something is right and something is wrong, we have to push things towards the right, when in reality, it's just not our place to do that.

And I think that like, like you're saying if somebody's coming to you and asking, what is your true opinion about this, you should never lie.

You should give your true opinion.

But if it is just a situation where they're just trying to, like, get something out to you, I think that is your place to say, like, something along the lines of something more sympathetic.

Because while you shouldn't lie in that situation, you should definitely take into account that right now.

What is the overall truth?

And what is like these massive, like, life questions of is this true, is this false?

You know, these massive things doesn't matter.

It's just right now their personal experience, what they're going through, that maybe you might not be able to convince them otherwise.

So I think it's just.

It's picking your battles, man.

I think it comes down to that of, you don't have to say anything.

Again, if they're asking for your advice, yes, you should give your honest opinion, but you don't have to say everything.

I think that is really just all I can say is that it's Just.

I think it comes down to speaking with love.

Sure.

Because that's what we're called to do ultimately.

And, you know, while we're told to love everyone, we're not told to like everyone.

That's so true.

So, you know, I mean, realistically, there's gonna people out there that don't like me, and then there's gonna be people I don't like.

Yeah, yeah, that's okay.

And coming back to the idea of that we're talking about with people trying to, like, label everything and, you know, everybody has this issue.

I feel like while I do think that has become way over saturated, I also think that where it comes from, the intention behind it is good.

I think that the reason behind it is in order to try and validate people, to try and normalize things.

Because that's always what I've heard is people who are trying to make it so, you know, these things.

Oh, it's an everyday thing.

Everybody's going through it.

It's the attempt to normalize it to make them not feel like they are less normal.

Like they are less than to take away the shame.

Yes.

Behind that.

Well, I think that we've gotten away from an idea of like, everybody deals with it.

And here's a way that you can try.

Like, I think that if you're gonna say everybody deals with it, I mean, that's not necessarily trivializing it.

If you're like, I'm here with you.

Like, I also go through this.

Right.

I think that that was one of the biggest things for some of.

Some of my addiction was somebody saying, hey, you're not alone.

Right.

Like, exactly.

Everybody deals with this to some degree.

Right.

You know, and it's like.

And so you can too.

Like, so there is the.

The validation and very much it's.

It's how you say things, Right?

Absolutely.

I choose not to say things the nice way.

Most of the time I try to be kind, but that doesn't always work either.

But it is how you say things.

So I get the wording, and all of that is important.

I get the not saying some things because it's not necessary is important.

But how long do you let somebody sit in something that is just absolute garbage?

You know what I mean?

Like, you know, it's garbage.

You're getting seriously hypothetical.

Give us a situation.

Oh, I don't know.

Okay, here's one.

How long do you let somebody who believes they are a male, who is a female, believe they're a male?

Okay.

I mean, that's.

That's an extreme.

But that's.

That's.

That's the one that's common right now, right?

That is an extreme.

I'd say that specifically is so nuanced that it's more of one of those things where it's like, I don't think you would be able to convince that person.

That's one of the things that since it has, it's really not that big of a deal.

But since it's become such a big deal, right.

From the media, if you go out and you make small statements, somebody will assume a bigger statement from you.

And that's when.

So, like, okay, we're getting details.

Let's do details.

Yeah, let's say a man goes out, he wears a dress or a skirt.

Sure.

No matter.

The clothes do not matter.

Like, what he's wearing does not matter.

It doesn't affect anything.

But you look at him and you automatically assume he is a liberal.

You assume his political ideals and political opinions just because of the cloth he's wearing on his body.

So people making small statements or even not making a statement at all can be interpreted as another, like, very large political statement just because it's been such a giant exasperated thing by the media.

So I think in this situation where if you are talking to a trans person and you have to, like, you have it in your head that you have to convince them otherwise, I don't think that that can be taken lightly.

I think that has to be one of the things.

I'm not talking about telling them that they can't believe that.

I'm just not willing to validate it.

Right?

Like, I'll call you whatever name you want to go by, right.

For instance, that's fine because that's arbitrary, right?

Like, if you are John and you want to go by Jill, cool, But I'm not gonna call you she if you're a he.

Like, I'm not gonna do that.

And because I refused, why would you be?

Okay, so their name.

You'll use a masculine or feminine name for a different person, but you won't use masculine names.

Names are arbitrary because they.

They're.

Those are picked.

That is something that's made of.

It's not a scientific thing.

Right.

But sex is.

You know, pronouns, pronouns, pronouns are important.

Like the whole.

They, them, that's plural, and it's very rarely used for a singular person.

There is only one nuanced reason you would use that is if you didn't know that the male person, they dropped it off.

It's the only time you use A plural for a singular in pronouns.

So that's the things that, like, I'm not going to validate that I'm not okay with just going along with that sort of thing.

But I also don't want to be unkind to someone.

Of course.

So where does that.

I mean, you asked for specific.

Yeah.

Where does that nuance go?

I think that's where you have to consider your intentionality, where you really have to consider, again, is this something that you have such a big opinion about and you feel is absolutely false and absolutely wrong?

Because it's been so exasperated by the media and it's such a big thing.

Like, you go onto social media and it's a massive topic and it's so in your face versus, like, if you just walk around town, oh, I know a lot of people, it's in your face.

But I'm saying, like, I do.

I run into plenty of people.

Yeah, but it's one of those things where it's like, is it such a big deal just because of the media now?

I wouldn't go out of my way.

Right.

Like, I get what you're saying.

I get what you're saying.

I wouldn't go out of my way.

Somebody I don't know, walk up to them, be like, what are you doing?

You're an idiot.

Like that.

That's not where I would go.

Yeah, but if somebody's coming to me, especially for me as being an elder, right.

I'm supposed to be here for people if they want to talk through things, I have to also set the standard for what our church is going to do.

Right.

Okay.

I'm going to say this is my personal opinion that it really comes down to, what's your motivation for speaking?

Okay, that's good.

That's really good.

I really think it comes down to.

Do you think motivation comes off in tone and the way you say things?

I'd say, absolutely.

Yeah, I would, definitely.

But I think you can't control how another person's going to receive what you're saying.

You can't.

Because like you said, we could have these past stories, you know, that come up in our heads and that person's filtering everything you say from something that happened 20 years ago.

So you have no control over that.

All you can control is, are you speaking in love?

Yeah, exactly.

It's that intentionality.

It's that, am I so passionate about this topic because I'm seeing it on social media?

Am I so passionate about this topic because I have a bias against it?

And so that's reflecting on how I treat this topic person and that's why I feel the need to correct them.

Or is are you doing it out of love?

So I'd say a situation where you're actively trying to like, help somebody in that you're saying that trash state that they're in, I'd say that's more akin to they're in a situation where they're addicted to something or they're in a situation where they have a really horrible partner that they're with, or in their situation where it's like, it's less about the politics and the opinions of the situation and more so they are actively hurting themselves.

Like, no, like any kind of.

Oh, well, you know, this could hurt you in the long run.

This, you know, is the wrong thing to do.

Just you are hurting yourself, like physically, mentally, in a really horrible state.

And I think that's when it really comes into you being responsible to try and convince them otherwise.

And again, it comes down to that.

You can't guarantee you will be able to.

You can add your friendly advice if they ask, but at the same time, if you try to force that upon them, it will never get anywhere.

And that's where you have to tiptoe more.

Because while again, you shouldn't lie, you shouldn't falsify yourself, you shouldn't just play to their needs, you should go into it with a heart that is trying to empathize with them, that is trying to.

Somebody who have done that to themselves must be in so much pain.

And I mean, you've got to come to them from Jesus point of view.

Sure, yeah.

I mean, if somebody's having an issue and somebody comes up to you and starts like trying to attack you, or at least it feels that way.

Verbally.

Verbally, yes.

Then you're not gonna respond.

You're gonna respond in that fight or flight manner.

How do you catch that, though?

I mean, because that deals directly with anxiety, right?

Like, yeah, it becomes an anxious moment.

Right.

How do you.

How do you actively stop that in the process?

What are some things that you can do to stop that?

Just bringing it back to anxiety and leaning more into that.

How do we have peace in the moment that we normally would have anxiety?

You know, what are some things that people can.

Could do or try?

I mean, I know nothing, nothing as universal, works for everybody.

But what are some things that we could do?

I'd say in a general sense, my personal opinion would be if you are in a conversation with somebody where you're trying to Convince them otherwise.

It's getting really kind of heated.

You're both anxious.

You're both reacting to each other because of that fear.

Like you were saying, I think that being able to step back and acknowledge your personal bias on the situation, I think is really important because that anxiety and fear is also coupled with anger.

And when you're reacting in a fear state, you know, you have to acknowledge that fight is a very, like, prominent reaction.

It's that anger.

It's that reaching out and going, no, you're wrong, and I have to prove that you're wrong, you know, or else there's no justice.

And you have to be able to step back and acknowledge, I have my own personal bias on this situation.

And that's okay.

Like, what I am feeling is okay.

Like, I have my own bias.

We have to acknowledge that and realize they have their own personal bias, too.

And even if those don't link up, that's okay.

Like, we don't have to absolutely agree.

We just have to acknowledge that we have our biases and there may be stuff that we're not seeing and stuff that we're not understanding because of that bias.

That's just human nature.

Yeah.

Yeah, that's good.

That's really good.

I think intentionality is something that is an important step in that.

In fact, like, you're talking about in the midst of it, I would say even more so, like, being intentional about that before going into that conversation, setting yourself up for success versus, you know, just going into a situation, you know, that intentionality, and this is something that we've talked about a lot on here, is intentionality is important because totally removes as much possible chaos as you can.

You're still going to have chaos, right?

You're still gonna.

You're still gonna have.

Because your people are unexpected, and you're gonna have feelings that crop up out of nowhere that are just gonna happen, right?

Like, those things are gonna.

Are gonna be there.

But the more intentionality you have in prepping yourself for those situations, that's why I say, you know, if you pray beforehand, right, you're not going to react, right?

You're going to act because you're going to be ready, you know, you have to ready yourself.

You got to put on the armor of God daily.

You've got to.

You've got to get into your word.

You've got to be with people, you know, you've got to.

You got to have that community in order to react less and act in a situation more.

And I think perspective is this is Another child of God that God loves just as much as you.

Even if you don't agree with what they're saying or doing, God doesn't love you more than him.

Right.

So, you know, that's an important thing to remember.

Yeah.

Humility.

You have to check your ego.

You have to think, am I coming from a place of God?

Am I trying to play God in this situation by telling them what is right from wrong?

Or am I coming from a equal playing field as a fellow sinner?

Realize again, going into that, they will notice if you're coming from up here or whether you're coming from here.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

For the long term, longtime Christians, those who have been Christians for a long time.

I'm in that category at this point.

I've been a Christian for 32 years now.

I will tell you, if you think that you don't have times of feeling more of a Christian than others, check yourself.

I know that I have to check myself on a regular basis.

You mean pride, like when we're experiencing this self righteousness.

That, that I have to constantly be checking myself.

That doesn't come up all the time.

But if I'm not on top of it, I mean, one of the last things somebody wants to hear is how long you have an experience of something.

Like, I've been doing this for 20 years.

Nobody wants to hear that.

Right?

Nobody wants to hear that.

But at the same time, like, you don't have to say that to say that.

So check yourself before you say something.

That's stupid.

Right.

Motivation.

But on the reverse side of that, those of you who are newer Christians don't think that you are less of a Christian because you haven't been a Christian longer.

That's something that I hear a lot, a whole lot.

And that is like, well, I don't know.

I haven't been doing this as long as you.

Okay.

The disciples were told to go not long after knowing Jesus in pairs and just go, do the thing, you know?

And they're like, wait a second, like, how does this work?

And he's like, I've told you, I've shown you.

Go.

You know, like it.

Once you, once you become a Christian, you're now a Christian.

Welcome to the club.

Like, we are all broken people, all learning it.

None of us are in the same place.

You can't compare each other to each other.

One of the biggest things that I've heard recently is like, you know, don't Compare my chapter 36 to your chapter 14.

Like it's.

That doesn't work, you know, you don't know where you're at because we're all individual and we have different backgrounds and length of time.

Being a Christian because it's not about us.

What we're able to do is all through Jesus.

So it doesn't matter how long we've been doing it.

It's how in touch we are with Jesus and how much we're surrendered and allowing him to work through us.

And it's by his power not however many years we've been a member of such and such church.

And I mean, that comes back to the centriole discussion of how much the church is affected by tradition.

This is the thing.

Way that things are this way that things will always be.

This is.

We are going to be completely dogmatic about it and you cannot change it.

And that's just not how God works.

God isn't in a straight line.

You know, we can't make him conform to our ideas of what he should be and how he should affect other people around us.

That just not how he works.

Well, and in Corinthians it talks about the same Spirit that lives in me, lives in you, lives in her.

Like it's the same spirit.

So as far as, you know, anything that God does, He can do it in and through any of us.

Right, right.

He's no matter how much of a sinner we are.

Yeah.

I mean, no matter how much of a non Christian you are.

Exactly.

God, Spirit can move in somebody and work through somebody who's not a Christian.

It's.

It's documented in the Old Testament.

Right, right.

Where the Spirit didn't just reside in you back then, it came upon you and left.

Right.

Like it, it's recorded there that even, even there, like the Spirit has used people who aren't a part of, you know, the believing crowd to, to do things.

And so absolutely.

As when you accept Christ into your life, you have the same spirit as somebody who's had Christ in their life for 80 years.

You know, it's.

It's the same.

It's that same power that is working in and through you, working on you.

You know, that's.

We don't.

We're not perfect until after death.

Right.

That just doesn't happen.

And so, so yeah, it's really, that's really good.

The, the.

That no matter how much time you've been walking with the Lord, you are absolutely able to be used and absolutely able to speak into other people and to love on other people because that's the ultimate goal.

Right.

Like You've brought it up a million times so far, and I love it is that it's got to be in love.

It's got to be in love.

It's got to be in love.

And so you could be a Christian for a day and just love on.

People, you know, and this scrolls at back because we've gotten way off track of anxiety, kind of, which is great.

And I'm loving the conversation streams and everything.

I love hearing some of the stuff you're saying.

I'm like, cool.

I love to talk.

Yeah, well, but we don't talk like this most of the time.

So this is kind of cool to.

Hear big philosophical conversation at breakfast.

But, you know, it's God's doing things in us and through us.

And.

When we're not in tune with him, that's when we start seeing things like this for normal.

You know, I'm not talking about clinical, I'm not talking about, you know, but just seasons where we're feeling anxious or we're feeling angry or a lot of times it's because we're not focused on God anymore and we're not working by his strength or trying to do stuff by our own strength.

I know that's my case frequently when I am trying to control everything and I think things need to be done in a certain way and God just needs to get on board with my plan already, then everything will be fine.

And that's where a lot of my issues come from.

And it's.

I have to stop and step back and, you know, when I'm full of anxiety, I can't love on other people.

I'm so wrapped up in myself.

I'm not treating myself correctly, I'm not treating God correctly and I'm not treating the people around me correctly.

Not in a loving way that God calls us to be.

I think that's why it's really important to live in community.

Yes, I think that it's really important to be with.

And I know I push it a lot, but discipleship groups are so important of men, if you're, you know, with men and women with women in these discipleship groups because, let's be honest, like we don't face the same kinds of issues and processes.

It's just not a thing.

Like we don't.

Any recovery group will tell you that separate men from men, women from women.

Because otherwise you start talking about personal issues and it becomes a meat market is what we call it.

And you really can't.

A man can't be fully honest about what he's talking about if half the room's women and they're, you know, and maybe sometimes his issue is women bias.

The women in the room won't understand from his perspective either.

They can't, and vice versa.

Right?

Exactly 100%.

And so it's really important to live in that community because those are the people that will grow to a point where when you're in that point of anxiety, they're like, yo, what's up?

Have you been in your word?

Right?

Are you pulling away?

What's going on?

We call that accountability partners.

We have in the recovery group, you have your community group, your small group, which men with men, women with women.

Then you've got your accountability partners, which is a step little closer.

Those are people who know your issue.

And you can call at 2 in the morning and saying, I'm having a panic attack.

Walk me through this.

Talk to me.

Remind me that, you know, I can do this.

Keep me from, you know, talk me through this until I can have enough strength to resist the bottle or whatever my issue is at that moment.

And then you have a sponsor, which is a person that you become very close to who you meet with regularly.

And, I mean, it would.

It's almost like counseling, but it's not, because it's just somebody who is downstream of me a little bit in my issue.

Right.

The same playing field.

Right, right.

But they've just been dealing with it a little bit longer than I have.

And my sponsor has been dealing with my issues, which are shame, fear, codependency, abuse.

She's been dealing with those for 15 years.

I have about four and a half.

So she's got a end of the tunnel light at the end of the tunnel perspective sometimes that I can't even begin to have.

But we talk about that a lot, how that's kind of missing that kind of raw accountability and honesty in the church with each other.

Because a lot of times we feel like we're supposed to be putting on this happy face because if I were a really good Christian, I wouldn't have these problems, I wouldn't have these struggles.

I wouldn't be tempted.

If I really love Jesus, I wouldn't be anxious.

I wouldn't be.

Right.

And there's a shame, all of the things, right.

Like, I wouldn't be.

But we fall.

We're in a fallen world we live in.

And it's not to trivialize it, but we all deal with this stuff.

We really do.

But it's different stuff for different people.

And different causes are Complex and nuanced and broken.

Every one of us is broken in some way.

Amen.

And that's something that.

There are several groups here that are discipleship groups that we kind of wrap all of those things into one.

And we.

We don't necessarily have, like a sponsor necessarily in that.

But no, because the accountability partners.

Right.

The accountability partner part is everybody in that small group, Right.

So there's like a group of five or six of you, and you.

Four to six of you.

Is the good range that you're all holding each other accountable on a regular basis.

You're meeting and you can never.

Is it.

Well, hardly ever is it that you just trust people off the bat either.

Right.

When you start in that group, if you guys haven't gotten in one once again, amen.

Get a hold of us and we will help you get into one.

Or you can start one on your own.

You can start one on your own.

It's like a book club.

Exactly.

If you don't have to read a book.

I'm gonna be starting one here in the beginning of the year.

What is it?

Just a men's discipleship group.

Very cool.

Together and grow together.

We need more.

On a regular basis.

We need more.

But I've only got one other person in the group so far.

So if one of you guys out there that goes to our church wants.

To join up in.

Join up.

Yeah, Let me know.

But if you're not in one, get in one and know that it's not.

It's not gonna be just off the bat.

You're gonna trust everybody.

Right.

That's why you can't just add people along the way.

Like, you all have to be to a point where you can.

You can be ready to add somebody into that group because that also needs to happen.

Like, see, and that's.

That's a hard thing.

And we've talked about that.

Lizzie and I have talked about that.

When you have an established group, you have an established relationship with each other, but at the same time, there are people out there hurting that need.

Need the support that they can get from your group.

So there's a balance.

Until you are in a place where you can help somebody.

Right?

Like, you can't.

You can't.

But it doesn't take that much to be in a place to help somebody.

But you've gotta.

You've gotta be started.

Right?

Like, you've gotta be started.

Right, Right, right.

But say you are started.

You know, you've got a group that's a year old and has.

Has A talent they meet every week.

They are in each other's lives.

They.

I'm gonna use an example because my group, my.

And it's more than that because we're called.

It's complicated because it's for women who are not married.

And in the church, that kind of leaves us, you know, we're not widowed.

Some of us are single.

Some of us have never been married.

Some of us have just gotten out of marriage.

Some of us are.

We're all in different stages besides just the stereotypical, you know, double income house with kids.

And that puts us in a kind of a weird oddball place in a lot of ways.

And we're dealing with things that only somebody else who's maybe going through a really hard time as a single mom would understand.

And we've built this relationship.

And so you've learned to trust each other in ways that it's hard for a new person to come in and feel a part of.

But at the same time, they need that support and we need to support the other people, other women that are in that place.

That's why at a certain point, I think that.

And I think that a lot of it's got to be based on God calling you to do it.

I definitely think that is important part of it.

But at some point you should split and maybe half of you goes and starts a group here, and half of you starts to group here, you invite more people in.

That's the way that several of us have tried to start discipleship here at the churches, is that you guys go for a while and that could be three years, you know, that's totally between you and God, you know, and your group.

And.

But the goal is to eventually break off and make more groups, you know, that way that it just builds.

But even Jesus had his 12 and 3 and 1 for three years, you know, so, like, there were other people that you influence.

Sure.

But then you've got your, your 12, the, the closer people to you.

You've got your inner three that, like, are your, your diehards.

And then there's the one that you go to most of the time, like, which would almost be that sponsor.

That's the.

Yeah, exactly.

Sponsor accountability.

That person that's like, if I'm gonna call somebody, this is gonna be the first person I call.

I have these other people too, but this is gonna be the, you know, that whole John out of Jesus's crew, you know, he's like, I'm the one that Jesus loved, you know, whatever.

But.

But yeah, so get in that group, that group will.

Discipleship group or whatever a group of, you know, can do life with.

That will help with anxiety so much.

It will.

Because you can be honest and real.

Yes.

So many different things it leads to.

And you have a support group of people that aren't going to judge you.

They're not going to judge you, but they are going to be able to.

They're going to be able to hold you accountable in the way that you need it at some point.

But I can show up and say, I am miserable, I'm alone, I'm lonely, I'm scared.

I think I'm going to spend the rest of my life alone.

And the other women around you will understand and go, that's okay.

Because, you know, it's a season, it's a season you're in.

Maybe it'll be permanent, maybe it won't, but God will still be with you and will still be with you.

Right.

The last part is, the part that I think is one of the more important parts is like, once you get to that point of like, we're not going anywhere.

Right.

No matter what you should.

We're not going anywhere.

Yes.

Because we need you as much as you need us.

And that doesn't mean you're always going to want it.

Sometimes there's times that it's like, yeah, I do not want the accountability that you have to offer.

Right.

But what you need is that person to say, I know, I know you don't.

I don't want to hear what you have to say.

I'm gonna continue to say it because I know that's what you need.

Right.

And, and that is a different level too, of than what we were talking earlier.

Like, that's a, that's a whole nother level of relationship that you have with someone that it's like, okay, no, it's no longer what, validating my feelings or it's no longer, you know, about being kind as much as it's going above and beyond and saying, no, we are in life together enough that this is what you need.

Right.

And we have done life long enough together and are close enough together that I have the right to speak into that.

And I'm going to speak into that.

But see what's led to that point to have that right.

That's not an automatic.

That is a slowly earned situation, which is very unique.

And that's why there's such a big issue with like street preachers or massive political religious speakers who are just speaking out onto a crowd and they don't have that right to have that personal, like, relationship with each individual person of I'm going to sit here with you and I'm going to like, make sure you take accountability for what you're doing.

Like, but I'm also going to be able to be, like, personable with you.

Like, there are those people in your group that you can go to for these topics that you can talk to.

So I'm not sure I understand.

So you were talking about the person that's speaking out not having the right.

You meaning in a judgmental way.

I'd say it's basically like a.

Like we were talking about where you are bringing your problems to these people who you trust and you have a relationship with them and you have that place where you can talk to them versus, like we were saying, you're trying to come up to a stranger or somebody you sort of know, but you don't have that relationship with, and you're trying to convince them of something that's not nearly gonna have the same effect as having that right.

That trust between you two where they're actually going to listen.

It definitely, like, it's a lot trickier to navigate that versus having already built the trust and that relationship.

And I think that.

I think honestly, like, trying to do any kind of evangelism without having some sort of building of trust and relationship before or after, people have argue on the whole, what is evangelism all day long.

Right.

Just proselytizing, telling people about Jesus is.

Is not necessarily that.

That full effect.

I think that one of the most effective things is just, hey, you want to go get a burger?

Yes.

Relationship starting building that and, and building that up.

And eventually, hopefully they.

They are willing to let you in, you know.

Yeah.

And if not, you'll find that out too.

But like, you'll.

You'll never know until you start trying to build that relationship.

And, and so I know that we're.

We're getting off on that and you know, it's.

We're probably way over time, but that.

That's an.

I think that's an important part of finding that.

That piece though.

I think that's an important part is.

Is having the community around you.

Oh yeah.

And building that and, you know, relationships.

And it's.

I understand the anxiety that it can cause to even start that.

But for those listening, different.

For those listening, like, let us alleviate that anxiety for you.

Like, I email us, text me, call me, whatever, you know, like, get ahold of us, Facebook, whatever.

Whatever way that is, leave a message you know, a way to get a hold of you, whatever that looks like, and let us help take that anxiety off of your shoulders of trying to figure out, how do I get into a group?

Because I know for my wife, that's one of those things that's really stressful, is I have to have to reach out to new people.

That's really, really a lot for her.

And so.

And God has blessed her with the ability to press on through that.

But I know for her, that's high.

Anxiety is.

Interacting with other adults is anxiety enough, you know, so.

And everybody who knows her knows that it's not a big deal for me to share that.

But, like, for those of you who are in that same boat, let us know.

We'll.

We'll.

We'll help you get to that point to where it's not.

It's not a worry.

It's not.

And the only thing that you got to do is show up.

Like, we will work on it to that point.

So I want to take that off of your plate.

If we can also leave some prayer requests, man, like, what are you dealing with?

What's your struggle right now?

You don't have to be detailed, but let us pray for you.

We want to.

We want to pray for you.

We want to be here for you.

If you see us in the hallway, you know, come say hey.

Come, come.

You know, tell us.

Tell us what you need prayer for.

We're totally here to visit our tiny.

Little room in the back.

Yeah.

Go stop off at the broadcast room and slide a note under the door what you need prayer requests for.

Because apparently it's not.

Or just come in in the meantime.

Yeah.

Or do that.

So, okay, so to wrap it up, last thoughts, you know, like, what's something that.

If they get nothing else out of today, what do you want to leave people with?

We'll start with Shaylin.

I'd say the main thing that's sticking my head right now is don't try and seek out things that you know will get a reaction from you, because I know that sounds a bit off topic, but it's that I feel like people these days, especially in my generation, are often adrenaline seeking, which leads to anxiety.

So it's those things.

It's.

Looking at the news is a major one across generations.

You're looking at.

You should stay informed.

But looking at these politics, you know, freaks you out and, you know, gives you mass amounts of anxiety and you know that you're feeding into that.

But you have to have that introspection to be Able to know that these things are affecting you and to avoid them, you have to have that discipline in your life.

Because if you're not willing to get rid of the things that are giving you anxiety, these unhealthy things that are giving you anxiety, then you can't better yourself.

And you have to acknowledge that and have that maturity.

That's solid.

My mother in law, she's that way with politics.

I mean, that's.

She's not alone in that, but she's that way.

She's like, I don't want to talk about politics.

She doesn't, she doesn't watch the news when it comes to politics.

She doesn't want to talk politics.

She's like, she'll shut down the conversation and it's to avoid that anxiety.

That's unnecessary and careful.

Yeah, exactly.

That is solid advice.

That's really, really good.

Yeah.

Setting boundaries.

It's basically to label.

What she was talking about was knowing what will cause you problems and knowing where that line is and knowing not to cross it.

Don't create a support group with evil, horrible things.

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

No, I think that was really spot on.

Definitely.

And you know, again, I think a lot of our anxiety really does come from fear and sitting down and figuring out where my fear is coming from, what's causing this?

What's the root of this?

You know, you can't address it if you don't know what it is.

And reaching out, you know, because sometimes it's stuff you can't find out yourself.

You need somebody else to go, oh, you know, have you considered having other people around you, a support group to know that you're not alone, to the shame, the isolation, it just magnifies your anxiety.

Yeah.

Venting is one thing, and I know that it has its place, but seeking change is also important.

And those are the two different ways that people usually interact when they're talking about problems.

Right.

Is that I just need to get it off my chest and I want things to change.

Two different alleys.

And it's okay to vent and get things off your chest, but at some point, if it's the same thing, you've got to have the conversation of, how do I change this?

And.

And please don't do it alone.

Amen.

Please do not do this alone.

A.

That's not biblical.

Right.

Doing it alone is not a biblical approach.

Nowhere in scripture does it support doing it alone.

But also, like, please don't do it alone.

You need people to be in your life to help you through it.

And.

And not just need, but like it is.

So it.

It relieves a lot of anxiety to not have to do it alone.

Yeah.

I mean, when you're trying to deal with things on your own, it is so much harder.

Well, in the devil knows.

Oh, yeah.

The enemy knows where your weaknesses are, and he thrives on that isolation.

And you just start spinning.

That's the truth of the matter.

You're not actually alone, right.

You got a lot of company, right?

Yeah.

The spiritual realm is real, man.

The spiritual realm is real.

And it's a battle.

Yeah, yeah.

It's.

It's constantly around us.

And if we're trying to do it on our own, we've lost half our weapons.

Yeah, yeah.

Nobody's got your back, right?

I mean, God's got your back, don't.

Get me wrong, but he intended for.

You to have more.

Yeah.

He built us to help each other carry each other's loads.

Right.

And that's.

That's what.

What we're called to do is carry each other's burdens.

And so.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Don't do it alone.

That's mine.

That's.

Just don't.

Don't do it alone.

If you need anything, let us know.

Holler at us.

Thank y' all for being here today.

Yeah, of course.

Like I said, love to talk.

It was a lot of fun.

It was.

It was.

Hopefully you thought it was more fun than what you came into it thinking.

Yeah, I hate social media.

Not a big fan.

Yeah.

Don't like being in the public eye, but I love a conversation, so I had a good time.

So that means you'll come back?

Possibly.

It depends on what the topics are.

It's anything that interested to me.

Well, we didn't even stick to this one, so, you know.

Hey, Thesis.

Coming up, I got some great topics for you.

All right, well, maybe we'll hit those.

We do need to make our list for this next year, so hit me up.

We did.

We did.

I think it all applied, though.

I think that we rabbit trailed a lot.

But I think that in the grand scheme of things, the people who are dealing with anxiety are dealing with a lot of that other stuff.

And they're little things that.

To navigate, you know, this major thing that is anxiety, you know, And I.

Want to put a plug in real quick again for Celebrate Recovery.

If you go online, it's Celebrate Recovery you can find.

Right.

Yeah, you can find groups.

They're all over the place.

And you just put in your address and it will give you all the groups around you, so.

And the book.

And the book.

Yes.

Putting an ex through Anxiety.

Louie Giglio.

Really good book.

I'm gonna plug my stuff too, because I can.

Yes.

I got a new song out and it is the.

The band name is Breath and Bone.

Could be under Breath and Bone music and it's called Holy Fire.

So check it out.

I would love it if you did.

I'm up to 12 cents.

Yay.

I've made 12 cents.

There you go, man.

I'm a professional musician.

Make it in in the big wigs.

Or songwriter, I should say.

I'm a professional songwriter.

There you go.

Yeah.

So check it out.

It's fun.

You can check out the other one too.

But the new one's out.

Got a couple more coming.

My daughter wrote one, so.

Very cool.

Very cool.

I helped her polish the lyrics so it didn't sound like a 9 year old, but it, it, it definitely was all from her brain and it was so.

It was.

It was really good.

It.

It was deep.

Awesome than I expected it to be.

So it was good.

So that'll be coming out probably next because, you know, it's my daughter, she's important.

So that'll be right at the beginning of the year sometime.

So be watching for that and as always, God bless.

Hey, thanks for joining us.

Make sure to subscribe and give us a like on itunes and Spotify so that you will never miss a show.

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Because we are all about the truth.

Thanks for joining us us this week and God bless.