Janice Porter: Welcome, everyone to relationships rule. My special guest this week is no other than the very amazing speaker, author. Oh, my goodness, I'm in awe of him. It is Bob Berg. No, seriously, Bob berg is the co author of the international bestseller, The Go Giver, which I have here in case anybody ever sees this, the Go Giver, and a much sought after speakers at sales leadership conference. And he's committed to inspiring the entrepreneurial spirit, entrepreneurial spirit in all, which I love. And I know that Bob has a community that go give her community as well that that people that that he teaches his methods to. And I have to say, Bob, first of all, welcome to the show.
Bob Burg: Thank you for having me, it's
Janice Porter: an honor, you're welcome. And what I noticed when I first went through your website and looked at the community, it is a bunch of very happy looking smiling people. Oh, happy to be there. And, and I think that that speaks a lot to the, the, to what you what you spread around the world, the joy that you spread, I want to start with just a little story in that you and I were supposed to meet a little while ago, and for whatever reason, it had to be changed. And you had asked me if I would mind changing it, or we had to shorten it. And I said, look, let's not do that. Let's just do it another time. And that was fine. So here we are today. Sorry, my phone is beeping it shouldn't be and and you posted something on your LinkedIn to thank me for making that change. And I was like flabbergasted. And I didn't. It's funny, so many things went through my mind i i wanted to share it with everybody, but I didn't want to share it because I didn't want it to seem like I was, you know promoting something that that was really just you your kindness and your you how you practice what you preach. And so I was very honored when you did that and showed that, you know, it's it's better to give than not so. So let's let's just talk about for a moment, because I know that what your your book, The Go Giver has been translated into over 30 languages. I think it was published in 2007 or 2008.
Bob Burg: Yeah, So officially, it was the very, very like December 27 of 2007. But it hit the bookstores in 2008. So we give it that extra year for sure.
Janice Porter: So that I know we'll have read that book. But there's a lot of people out there that are new entrepreneurs and business owners that are in what how can you just this is a parable. And story speaks to some values around how you should conduct yourself all the time, not just in business. But can you just give us a summary of the five laws that you talked about in the books?
Bob Burg: For sure. And it was co authored with John David Mann, the lead writer storyteller, he's a brilliant, brilliant writer.
Janice Porter: And he was on my podcast, too.
Bob Burg: Yeah, it was with them on
Janice Porter: the go giver in marriage,
Bob Burg: which they wrote, yeah, half a year ago, which I thought they did a wonderful job with. And they're, they're a fantastic couple themselves. So yeah, so it's a it's a parable about a guy named Joe, who's sort of an up and comer or you an aggressive, ambitious, nice, nice guy, but at his priorities a little little backwards, and that he was very much what we call a go taker was all about him and how it was going to be about him. And, and what he did is he learned a very valuable basic lesson, which is sort of a premise of the story, which is that shifting your focus, and this is really the key, shifting your focus from getting to giving. And when we say giving in this context, we simply mean constantly and consistently providing immense value to others. Understanding that doing so is not only a more fulfilling way of conducting business, it's actually the most financially profitable way as well and not for any kind of way out there. Woowoo magical mystical reasons not at all. It's actually very logical. It's very rational when you think about it, because when you're that person who can take your focus off of yourself, and make it about serving others discovering what they need, what they want, what they desire. People feel good about you really they feel great about you. They want to get to know you, they like you, they trust you. They want to be in relationship with you. They want to do business with you, if and when it's appropriate to do so and they definitely want to tell others about you. They want to beat you or personal walking? Ambassador. So you know, that's the premise. And as you said, there are five principles or laws what, however you want to say it that go with that the laws of value compensation influence authenticity and receptivity. So it's very harmonious and that it's not just a few of these, it's utilizing all five of those together in conjunction.
Janice Porter: Perfect. It's funny because I do training, and I teach people how to reach out and talk to people on LinkedIn to become, you know, to build new relationships with people on LinkedIn. And when I'm teaching the messaging strategies that go along with that, I find it really interesting how many people today aren't it's, it doesn't come naturally to them to think of the other person first, they think they have to talk about themselves. Now, do you find that? That it's, it's because they're fearful or, or, or, you know, unsure of themselves that it's easier to talk? How do you? How do you turn them into that go giver? Because I think that people have to see it before they can actually do it. If they're not, if it's not a natural thing?
Bob Burg: Well, I think what what, what is natural is for people to think that they have to talk about themselves in their own business, in order for the other person to desire to want to do business with them. Okay. And it has to be about how great their product is, or their service, how knowledgeable they are, how old the company is that they've been working with, or you know, all the different things that really the other person doesn't care about, you know, one of the things that I say, whenever when I speak at sales conferences, I often begin by saying, nobody's going to buy from you, because you have a quota to meet, right, they're not going to buy from you because you need the money. Or because you're a nice person, you know, just because of those reasons they're gonna buy from you, because they believe that ultimately, they will be better off by doing so than by not doing so, which means much more than being than being concerned with you and what you do, it's really about how you can help them and that value. And that's human nature as well. And to live in truth and understand that that's how it is, you know, you make a great point, when you say that, you know, when people talk about relationship marketing, they often focus on the marketing instead of the relationship. Well, the reason why focus on the relationship that needs that that needs to be the focus is because that comes first that comes first, you know, once they know like and trust you now they're open to you know, what it is that you can do for them.
Janice Porter: Right. You know, I was talking to a prospect the other day, a really nice woman who I've met an online networking event. And I knew she needed my help, because I saw what she had, you know that online about herself. And yet, I didn't want to, you know, push anything on her. So I was finding out about her. And as I'm doing that, she's asking me questions about her LinkedIn profile. And I gave her about three or four things that she could tweak or do differently, that would make a huge difference. And then towards the end of the conversation, she said, You have given me so much value already. I really need to work with you. Right. And it was like, perfect. Right. But yeah, but but I think that it's not that so much is the key point that you make is Don't think about anything else. But the giving at that point, because the rest will then come. Yeah, I mean, I
Bob Burg: think the focus is the big the big thing. If you can understand that it you know that it isn't about you. It's about them. Yes, you're you're facing in the right direction.
Janice Porter: I love that. So do you when you're when you're out speaking today in 21st century, in the last well, just since save just pre COVID or during cover, you're probably doing a lot online as well. Have you found things to be different than back in the early days when you were first when the book was first released? In terms of the people that the questions that were asked them to the questions that are asked now have you is it different? Are people different? I think different focuses
Bob Burg: principally based now are always though, changes depending upon the situation. You know what I'm saying? That's what we say, you know, Universal laws and principles are timeless. I remember Jim Rohn, the great business philosopher used to say Beware the person who comes to you offering new fundamentals. Great. Oh, he was he was just fantastic. You know, he was he was the kind of guy you could listen to him say the same thing every single time and find something new out of it every
Janice Porter: I used to listen to his his CD in my car every day.
Bob Burg: Oh, I loved it. Yeah, yeah. Okay, no, go ahead. No, so I think like anything else? Strategies, uh, techniques, tactics, those kinds of things. I think they changed depending upon, you know, what things we have now going on to work with? We want to make sure that we utilize those strategies, tactics, and what have you, in alignment with proven universal laws and principles?
Janice Porter: Right, right. I know in the story, it's so it's so funny, I read it again, right, because I was going to be interviewing you and, and it was so interesting, because for Joe, Joe Schmo, I call him at first because I know what he's due for. And he, and he's always surprised by how the lesson comes to him, which is so beautiful than in, in the parable, but it's when the light goes on that you go, Oh, my goodness, why didn't I see that the first time, right? Why was I doing it the wrong way? Sure. So there's a there's a part in the book that talks about money. And so why asking if something will make money isn't a bad question. It's just a bad first question. And I love that, and then wonder if you could speak to that.
Bob Burg: Sure. And this is where Joe and Pindar were having a conversation where Pindar where they were talking about Rachel's coffee, how delicious it was, and Pinto was saying about serving it, or sharing it with the world or something. And Joe said, oh, yeah, you can market this on an industrial scale, you could make a killing. And, you know, Pindar kind of said, you know, it's it's the thought, but let's look at sort of how we're approaching things where I'm talking about sharing it or sharing its value with the world and you're talking about making a killing adjusted. So are you saying that may will asking Will it make money is a bad question? And vendor said, No, asking if something will make money? Is a great question. It's just a bad. First question. So So why is that? So? Because again, it always goes back to where your focus is, if your focus is on will something make money, you're kind of putting the cart before the horse. Because nobody's room as we were talking about earlier, nobody's gonna buy it from you, because you think it will make money. Okay, it's will it served? The first question Pindar said is asked, will it serve? Or we can even say, will it? Is there a marketplace? for it? Will people want it? Now this market, by the way, might be something we have to create? And then it's up to us to decide? Is it worth the time, the effort the the investment would have you to do so? Or it might be is it just isn't a market that's already there. But your product is not the first or second one there? So can you create a market? Those are all, you know, those are logistical questions. But it still has to start with that. Because, you know, if, if, if you can produce it at a lower price than what you would sell it for? Well, you could say it will make money. But if nobody buys it, well, you know, that doesn't exactly work. Now, on the other hand, still, we have to also ask, Will it make money, because you can have a product or service that everybody loves and buys and enjoys? But if it's not profitable, well, now you You've simply got a very expensive hobby. And while hobbies are good, that's not what we're talking about in terms of the go giver in the story. You know, it's not it's not good business. So both are important, you know, will it make money again, as Pindar said, import? Great question. Just a bad first question. Be careful not to lead with that put first things first. You know, as John David Mann and I say in this in this in the follow up book, go givers some more money is simply an echo of value. It's the thunder if you will, to values lightning, which means the value must come first. That's where the focus must be. It's like as you say, focusing on the relationship rather than the marketing doesn't mean the marketing is not important. The marketing is very important. But the relationship comes first, the marketing second, the value comes first. The money is a result is a reflection of the value you've
Janice Porter: provided. Great, great answer. Thank you. Do you think do you ever have people say You see happened to me today. When I when I was talking to somebody about the the initial conversation starters and questions and things to ask him, you know, if it's a cold outreach on LinkedIn, let's say or, or even even if it's in person at a networking event people doesn't matter if it's b2b or b2c, in your, in your opinion that you should start by building rapport. I mean, I know the answer to this question, but I just I have to ask it because people sometimes as this gentleman did with me today, he thinks that there's a difference if I'm reaching out to somebody who's in part of a big corporation, that I can speak about my product or my service. Now, first, before I even know them, because it's a business thing. Whereas if it's with a solopreneur, or an entrepreneur or small business owner, you need to do that report. I don't agree with him. But I want to hear what what your take I
Bob Burg: know, you and I are in agreement. You know, we say b2b business to business, b2c business to consumer. Person to person. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Right. And so, so sure, that person's a human being that you're that you connecting with. And, you know, somebody can say, oh, but this is business. That's still personal.
Janice Porter: It's still people. Thank you. Thank you for that. So there is a question that that was on some of the material that was sent to me, for you. And it says, one thing to absolutely avoid doing when seeking out a mentor? Do you mentor people first of all? Well,
Bob Burg: I generally don't. For any, any long period of time now I'm not It's not retired, right?
Janice Porter: You're sort of retired?
Bob Burg: Yeah. So it's a it's a little bit, it's a little bit difficult to do that for, you know, for for too long of time, I can try to be there to help someone if they need it. And then, you know, when it gets to a certain point, kind of refer them to other resources, or people or so forth, but
Janice Porter: but I am curious about what's the one thing to absolutely avoid?
Bob Burg: Yeah. So I, a lot of times, people will approach someone who they'd like to mentor them with, and which is great, but it's someone they don't necessarily know at all, personally, or in any way or have any relationship with which again, is okay. Yeah. But they, when they ask, they'll, they'll simply say something like, Hey, will you be my mentor. And the challenge with that is, is is, and let's look at it a little bit in depth is that if you're asking this person to be your mentor, there's probably a lot of other people who are asking them to be your mentor, or their mentor, they have limited amount of time and so forth. And so asking, simply asking somebody to be your mentor doesn't distinguish you in any way from anyone else. It also comes off maybe a tiny bit entitled, you know, it's almost like saying to somebody, Hey, will you share 40 years of your life's experience with me, even though you don't know me from a hole in the wall, right, right, and so forth. And so, but that said, you can still ask that that person, but I would go about it maybe a different way. Understanding that first, you know, a mentor protege relationship is just that it's a relationship. It doesn't happen overnight. But you can say to this person in it, whether it's online, whether it's in person, whether it's on the telephone, the medium doesn't matter, okay? And it's simply something like, Hey, it would be something like, I know, you're very busy. So if this is something you either don't have time to do, or for whatever reason, just would rather not out. Absolutely understand. I'm wondering if I might ask you one or two very specific questions. Now, what you've done with that is, first of all, you've again, you've respected the process, right? You did not come off as entitled as though they owe you anything or that you would spend all their time without even knowing right. You also gave them the out or backdoor, you let them know right up front. If this is something you either don't have time or for whatever reason would rather not to you know and the what I call the Berg's law of the outdoor backdoor simply says the bigger the outdoor backdoor you give someone to take, the less they'll feel the need to take because they feel you know, they have autonomy they're not trying to back them into a corner making them feel guilty or making it right and and they also know that you are the type who obviously is going to respect them and their time so they don't quit right? So they feel as though they can, but here's what you also did, is rather than to Just ask them to pick their brain which says to them, here's another time waster. Okay? Yeah, getting asked you one or two very specific questions. So now they say, okay, this person knows what it is they need they have an agenda in this case agenda in a way and so that so they're most likely not always or it doesn't have to be every one but most likely they'll say, oh sure, you know, go ahead what what can I do for you? Now you know, you want to already have researched them thoroughly so you know not to ask something you could have found online right? But you ask them you don't take much of their time you you thank them profusely and ask it you know, is it okay if I follow up down the line to kind of let you know how things are thinking oh, please do please do now. That very day, I would write them a handwritten not an email not a text a handwritten personalized notice that very short very sweet, dear Mr. So and so are dear Mrs. So and so are Hi Joe are Hydra however, it's been established, thank you so much for taking time out of your your busy schedule, your your wisdom was priceless. And I look forward to applying it right away, I'll follow up and, you know, let you know how things are progressing. Again, many, many thanks Best regards, put it in a regular envelope, hands, you know, stamp it with a regular stamp, not a medium machine stamp and a regular stamp, or a commemorative stamp, send it out that day, that's going to be a huge difference maker, I would also, you know, look, again, you can find this probably online, but if not his or her admin will know, their favorite charity, or cause and then make a small doesn't have to be anything big, but just a small donation to their favorite cause in their name. It'll get back to them, and you're not doing it to kiss up or anything. But just to let them know, again, you respect them the process, you appreciate them, you want to find something valuable to them right now, a couple of weeks later, whatever it happens to be you follow up? And you know, update them. Maybe you have another question. And as time goes on, maybe relationship is going to happen now. If not, if not, and there'll be someone else and someone else would have, my suggestion is to kind of follow that, that way of doing it without attachment to, you know, to the result to have to have that person as your one on one Tuesday with Maury. So, you know, and that's how I would, that's how I would suggest
Janice Porter: great advices great advice. So I know that you live in Florida, that to me always makes me think of you know, the retirement community, the golfing the over 55 communities, the water and all of that. So are you taking advantage of of your success and spending a lot more time doing those things or with your family and so on?
Bob Burg: I've got to be the most boring person. Yeah, if anybody ever from the outside was looking into my life, boring. I love it. Okay, so I moved down from from I grew up in Massachusetts, I moved down to Florida about 35 years ago, I just love the weather. The warm weather, I live in a golf course and don't golf, ah, let's see about two or three blocks from the ocean and don't OCE so you know, I you know, I just don't do anything. I'm kind of a hermit, and, and in but I enjoy my life very much. I'm an avid reader and I just
Janice Porter: say looking at the library behind you. I'm reading and that's not a backdrop which I don't think
Bob Burg: it's one one small part of my home life. I tell people my home is comprised of books with some scattered furniture.
Janice Porter: I think you should go on the comedy circuit actually. So, so do you read current business books? Or do you read fiction? Because I'm curious. Who you who you think is today, you know? Someone to, to look for or to follow?
Bob Burg: Oh, wow. There are so many good ones. There are so many good people out there so much will ultimately a book I just read though. And I wish I had read this when it first came out. It came out about I think eight years ago or something. I just read it. It's called selling sunshine 75 tips, tools and tactics for becoming a wildly successful entrepreneur. His name is Tony Hartle.
Janice Porter: I saw that you posted about that, didn't you on go. Yeah.
Bob Burg: What a wonderful, wonderful book and I mean, I think this is something that every entrepreneur should have and and keep right by their side and I'm telling you, that's it so you know, and then you know books like What was the book by Gina Whitman that I loved? Oh, one I'm not mad at myself, because it's one of my all time favorite books. But, you know, again, he wrote that I think about six or seven years ago. And and it was just to me, you know, a book that every single person, it's called a traction, tr AC T IO N, and it's a wonderful system for growing entrepreneurial companies. And, you know, there's just, there's so many fantastic books on sales, on marketing on the personal development, it just, yeah, this there's so much now I will say this for the last 35 years, which is about how long I've been in this business of speaking. I have not read many novels, because there's been so many personal development books, and books and marketing books, philosophy, and, you know, history and things that I just felt I really had. I didn't take time to read a lot of novels. And that's something I regret. And so I've been over the last year or so, been starting to read a whole lot more novels. So I'm still, you know, still reading personal development and saying, you know, I absolutely, but I'm now picking up a lot more novels, and, and reading those. So I gotta tell you knows a great who writes a great novel is John David. Yeah, his books called fear, and I still fear and then cold fear that he co authored with Brandon Webb. I mean, these are, you know, murder mystery type of books that you know, that again, I just hadn't read that these are wonderful. He's got a new one coming out in July. And I told him, I said, I don't even want to read the, the manuscript, I don't want to know anything about it until the book, so that I can I can pre order have it delivered that day it comes out and just just take the day. Fantastic. Yeah. So and that's just that's just pure joy.
Janice Porter: Yeah, yeah. And it requires a different kind of times spent, though, I think, because reading business books and self development books, you can put them down and, you know, whatever. But if you get into a good novel, you want to keep going, you know, and it takes time. So
Bob Burg: I also find myself always highlighting and underlining and taking notes on the personal development ones, I try not to sometimes that I see something that I love, and I've got to you know, write it down or whatever, where you can pick up a novel, and just, you know, you got your cup of coffee and your novel, and that's all you need. They know what what
Janice Porter: are, you know, well, I think they'll, it's funny how you're not, not you, per se, but you in general, people are, for me, I guess I should just speak for me, I'm, I'm attracted to those books that, of course, validate my values and my philosophy around building relationships about having the same values of showing appreciation and listening properly to other people and being able to come from a place of service. And so it's, it's a, it's just a joy to, to speak to people that are on that same level, right, as you and you know, that I didn't. Do you still do your podcast?
Bob Burg: I don't we haven't had that for I either two or three years. I'm not sure. We keep the archives up. Yeah.
Janice Porter: You listen to podcasts.
Bob Burg: A little difficult for me. I just enjoy reading much more than listening.
Janice Porter: Okay. I'm gonna ask you one last question, if I may. And it's not about your book or about anything. It's just one of those things that I like to ask people on occasion, because curiosity is my favorite word. And I'm a very curious person. And I want to know, two part question number one, do you think curiosity is innate, or learned? And second part is what are you most curious about these days? Well,
Bob Burg: I think curiosity is innate, because if you look at a baby, they're curious about everything. So it's got to be innate, I would imagine. I think maybe we start to lose it in certain ways as we as we get older because we think we already know Yeah, that's a set of beliefs in a sense that we that were handed before we're even old enough to think critically and question premises. So we you know, we we have whether it's upbringing and environment, schooling, news, media, television shows, movies, you know, what have you. We have we have certain beliefs. Is that our unconscious that I call it our unconscious operating system? Yeah. So often we lose our curiosity, because we, again, we think we've you know, we know what we know and what we screw and which it isn't necessarily those. So yeah, so So I think it's it is innate, but I think then it has to be redeveloped.
Janice Porter: Okay. Fair enough. I was curious about now.
Bob Burg: My biggest curiosity and what is curiosity? When you think of it, it's a desire to know something, right? Desire to Learn, I guess. I am fascinated with human nature, trying to understand why people do what they do, why they think, what they think, why they act, the way they act, and all different elements. And it's something. Again, I've studied this for years and years. And so there's certain things I, I believe I know. But of course, a belief is a Subjective Truth, it doesn't. So I love reading, you know about about human nature and with the desire to understand more and more about why.
Janice Porter: Well, now that brings now that makes me want to ask one more question. And that is that I noticed a beautiful post that you put on your LinkedIn just recently might have been today. And it made me think, do you go or have you traveled around the world giving speeches?
Bob Burg: Literally, I guess, but not a lot. You know what I mean? Like I've been I've spoken as far as whether it's China. or Europe, you know, I'm whatever, but not a lot. Because I didn't want to I don't really, I never really liked the traveling aspect.
Janice Porter: I just want people were different in different parts of the world, or whether they're the same all around.
Bob Burg: Yeah, so So here's my thought on that, just again, from my own personal experience, and that is different cultures, different types, different, this different all have to be respected, because people are individuals, okay. And, you know, cultures obviously, will have certain elements about them that are predictable in a certain way, okay. But when it comes right down to it, we're just all human beings. We all want love, we want to feel respected. We want to feel it, we want to be autonomous, we want to learn, we want to grow, we want kindness we want in order, I'm saying so. So yes, I was like, you know, respect the cultures, you know, into. And so of course, while understanding that, ultimately, we're all human beings, we're all individuals. And, you know, we all basically are subjected to the same human nature that every other human is.
Janice Porter: Yeah, that's, that's true. Well, this has been delightful. Do you have any parting words for my audience, any words of wisdom for business? Business owners, entrepreneurs out there today, to leave with my audience?
Bob Burg: You know, I think back to almost 40 years ago, after I've been in sales for a little while, and I was in a real sales slump. And a wise older gentleman. He wasn't even in the sales department of the company where I work, I think he was an engineer. And he was he soon retired after that. Nice Guy didn't say one of these people we have all met before, who doesn't say a lot. But whenever he did say something was always profound. Right? So and he took me aside and he said, Berg, if you want to make a lot of money in selling, he said, don't have making money as your target. Your target is serving others. Now. When you hit the target, you'll get a reward. And that reward will come in the form of money and you can do with that money, whatever you choose. But never forget, he said the money is simply the reward for hitting the target. It's not the target itself. Your target is serving others. And you know, that's really Janice, that's when it hit me. That great salesmanship is never about the salesperson. Great salesmanship is never about the product or service. As important as those aren't. That's not what it's about. Great salesmanship is about the other person just as you teach. It's about those people you serve. It's about those people whose whose, whose life you're trying to add value two, or I guess we could say in a sense, ultimately, it's about another person's life being better just because you are part of it. And I think When we can approach sales from that foundational premise, now we're really nine steps ahead of the game in a 10 step game.
Janice Porter: Wow, we're being a go giver. Really? Right. Perfect. Thanks. And thank you so much for your time and for your wisdom and to my audience. Please listen up. Let us know what you thought. Give us a review and a five star rating and we appreciate you and remember to stay connected and be remembered