Well to know how to make your LinkedIn profile client

magnets, or how to turn those silent followers into paying clients today.

We're diving deep into client winning strategies with LinkedIn expert,

Nicole Osborne on this episode of architecture business club.

The weekly podcast for solo and small firm architecture practice owners,

just like you who want to build a profitable future-proof architecture

business that fits around their life.

I'm the host, John Clayton.

And if you want a business in architecture that gives you more freedom, flexibility,

and fulfillment, then go to architecture, business club.com forward slash blueprint.

And download the architecture business blueprint.

It's the step-by-step formula to freedom for architects, architectural

technologists and architectural designers.

And it's absolutely free as a gift from me.

Now let's explore LinkedIn post ideas to win clients.

WUNDERBAR LinkedIn presence that gets the right clients raising their hands.

With 20 plus years in marketing and a signature blend of German

efficiency, she's fun and infectious enthusiasm, Nicole makes your

LinkedIn less of a chore and more

of a Cundan magnet.

And just in case you've got a grade D in high school German like

I did, that means client magnet.

You can connect with Nicole on LinkedIn and I'll leave a link

to her profile in the show notes.

Nicole, welcome to Architecture Business Club.

Oh, John, thank you so much for inviting me.

I'm super excited to be here and to be able to talk to your community.

it's great to have you here,

Nicole.

Thanks

for joining me.

Before we get stuck into the topic, though, I'd

I'd like

you to tell me a little bit about what you get up to in your free time.

Oh, in my free time.

Well, I tend to spend a fair bit on the computer because most of my clients are

outside the UK, so I'm a fair bit on Zoom.

So in my free time, I really like to just get off the screen, of digital, and

I like to keep fit just a little bit.

So I live in the middle of London, of I should say North West London.

So I bought myself a manual scooter, emphasis on manual scooter.

So I actually have to do all the work.

And I love nothing more than every day for half an hour to go outside

and just drive around my local area just to get a bit of exercise in.

London's pavements are so wobbly.

You actually have to be really mindful of not running anyone over or falling off.

That means you get a lot of head space and I love doing it.

So yeah, this is what I really do nearly every day and I absolutely enjoy

it for the exercise but also just to get some space for thinking and ideas.

one of my favorite hobbies, having a scooter.

Sounds like a lot of fun.

My thing is kayaking.

It's not

quite as easy

to get out every day, but, I do try through that the summer to try and get out

every week.

And, uh, that's sort of why.

my happy place, I suppose,

where I

can have some mindfulness away from the computer and my desk.

So we're going to

talk about LinkedIn.

Specifically, we're going to talk about LinkedIn post ideas to win clients.

We're going to dig into that, but first I wanted to start by just asking about

using questions in LinkedIn posts.

sometimes I see people using questions in LinkedIn posts, and I

was wondering what sort of questions tend to perform well on LinkedIn.

Great question, John.

So LinkedIn is very much a social platform.

So it's the world's largest B2B social media platform.

And the reason why I wanted to say this first of all, because it's important

that we engage with our audience, the kind of people that we want to reach.

We want to get noticed by.

and questions are your super tool for giving your audience encouragement

and permission to say something.

Now, the trick with this is we are on social media to learn something new

to connect with new people, but also essentially to make ourselves look good.

So for your community of architects.

it's probably going to be so tempting to ask quite challenging questions

like, Oh, are you looking at your house extension are you facing both struggles?

But the problem with this sort of question is, that essentially the audience member

have to admit that they have a problem.

So I would say, try and pick a question, which is of course related to your pose,

But make it really easy and almost make it a no brainer, John, because what happens

is we on social media, we are time short, and our attention span is literally zero.

it's got to to be something really easy to be able to say.

And also, we want to make ourselves as great, so if it's something positive,

perhaps the questions that, such as, have you seen a building which has

really inspired you, or have you visited a friend's house where you really

love the extension because it brought in a lot of light into the house,

have you admired a situation where?

where the couple made great use of space?

Much easier to say something to that as opposed to admitting something

Oh, my house isn't good enough or We haven't got enough space or i'm

worried about the building regulations.

So you probably can see straight away I'm i'm suggesting a positive spin on

the question which makes the audience Look good, and it's easy for them

to to reply Does that make sense?

That

makes

sense.

I love that.

so use questions where we can give a positive spin on things and don't

overcomplicate the questions because.

we don't have a lot of free headspace

and we don't

have a lot of time.

So if it's something we can engage with, Easily without having to think too hard.

We're more likely to get better engagement on the post.

Would that be correct?

Yes, super well said.

So put yourself into the audience's shoes and always think about what would be easy

for them to answer because the reality is A lot of people are lurkers on LinkedIn.

Now, this is not necessarily a negative thing, but it means that they're silent.

They're not likely to comment.

They're not likely to ask questions because it takes a lot of being

brave, being visible on LinkedIn.

They might not be ready yet.

So if you make it really easy for them to reply or to comment, they're more

likely to do so in turn, which will be great for the LinkedIn algorithm.

Which wants to keep people engaged on the platform, wants your post to do well.

So yes, it kind of fits two boxes.

It makes easy for your audience, easier for you, but also

it's good for the algorithm.

Mm-Hmm,

Brilliant.

You mentioned about lurkers there.

We'll swing back around to that shortly, but before we do I just was

wondering if there was any other best practices around asking questions

on linkedIn, like regarding whether.

to use a short post where it's just literally the question on its own, whether

to try and tie questions in into a longer text post, whether we use graphics with

them, whether we use, there's polls as well that we can use to ask questions,

what are the best practices that you've seen working recently on LinkedIn?

So it continuously evolves, which is why I love working with

LinkedIn or any sort of digital marketing it might really depend on your audience.

So it's worth whenever you are designing content to think straight away.

Okay.

Who am I designing this for?

What likely questions are they going to have?

What would they perceive as value?

How can I really walk in their shoes?

And I would also recommend that you test a variety of content posts.

you already suggested picture images and a post.

Just a text post, a poll, which is another great way, by the way, of getting your

audience to engage because, it doesn't take a lot of time for them to reply.

Videos are also on the rise or even actually going live on LinkedIn.

And this content mix continuously evolves.

And it's also important that you try out different things because

all members in your audience will have different preferences.

So if you only stick to, let's say, text posts or only polls.

That's really quite boring on LinkedIn.

Now, it's not like where everyone will see every post, but you want to create that

mixture to appeal to different people.

So yes, the key really is to think about your audience, try out different formats.

And then the final point I would like to make on this, also think

about what suits you as well.

Ideally, you want to find that sweet spot there.

It's what your audience enjoys, and also what you can learn to enjoy over

time in terms of content creation.

So those would be my tips on that.

Silence.

might be something to work towards if your whole content

strategy relies on doing that, then you're less likely to be able to be

consistent with it if it's something that's a bit too much of a struggle.

So I like that you said about, there's a variety of different ways that we

can do it, to, to ask questions and that we can try out those different

ways and see what resonates with our audience and find the sweet spot.

I love that.

Nicole, something that we have to do generally as business owners, and

this isn't just in architecture is.

in winning clients is handling their objections.

Is this something that we should talk about openly on linkedIn?

or is this something that we, you know, do we save these, This for the

sales calls, or actually, is there some sense in talking about common

customer objections openly on LinkedIn?

Yes.

So if we put ourselves into the shoes of a person who's trying to find their best

local architecture or architectural BRO,

what do we show to these people to help them make a decision?

And surely a substantial part of that is our digital footprint.

That would be Google.

You know, how easily is your practice to be found on Google?

It's LinkedIn.

So you want to think about, okay, so once they find me on those channels and that's

step one, What do they need to know about me as an architect, my team, in order

to help them make a better decision?

Because I would imagine, you know, if I'm an architectural bureau, for

example, specializing in home extensions in London, that's a lot of building

regulations, but it's in a lot of space.

That is a sort of a certain type of expertise.

So it would make sense to focus the content and the appeal of your

LinkedIn profile and your website to that kind of niche audience because

there are different needs compared to someone who might is looking for

like a more commercial property.

So super important to focus on your audience.

Now, when we know which audience we most like to appeal to, and you

and I would call this niching, but essentially it's about having a

focus for your sales and marketing.

We know already what kind of questions we get and you rightly mentioned

sales calls, but it's also putting ourselves again in those shoes.

Maybe they want to learn about our process.

Maybe they want to learn about how do we handle getting,

agreements from the council.

Or maybe it could be even advice for neighbouring disputes, you know, all

these sort of juicy bits which can come our way when we have a building project.

And if you already have expertise in those areas.

Or you know that your audience is likely to be concerned about the time it takes

to come up with the drawings, how good the instructions are for the actual

building company we're going to choose.

If you have an interest in sustainable building and you have an expertise

in that, all of these questions are such valuable content ideas,

because you want to show the audience you want to appeal to.

that you have a track record and that you have expertise and that you

particularly know what challenges, questions and hopes and dreams they have.

So yes, I always see objections as something like a goldmine

for content creation.

So for example, when I work with people on their LinkedIn, you know,

one objection is often, well, I've tried it before, it hasn't worked.

Another objection could be, well, I don't have anything interesting to say . And,

another objection could be, well, you know, we don't want to need into working

with anyone now because I'm aware of that.

I often talk about this in my content, and this is an added benefit actually.

it also means that I'm quite approachable in my content.

I show my audience, I know them.

I listen to them because often we temptation is on LinkedIn because.

Everyone feels we've got to be so serious and formal, and

we have such a formal network.

We pitch our content at too much of an expertise level.

So we're talking at our audience, and we're not opening that dialogue.

But by addressing some of these questions, these real questions you get from people

about the services you provide, you can pitch it at their level and you

can make it really valuable for them.

So absolutely, John, amazing that you brought that up.

Collate those questions and address them in your content.

And, you weave it into a story.

You maybe use it for a hook, and you share some learning points, or you talk

about your experience surrounding that.

So yeah, great mind of content ideas.

That sounds amazing.

Sounds like there would be so many different ideas for content that just

to take a little bit of time and think about some of their common questions

and objections that come up when you are, having those early conversations

with potential customers that gives us so many options for things

that we could post on linked in.

And I could imagine actually that if we do that in that way,

surely that's going to help actually when

it does

come time to get on the phone with

somebody,

that if they've already seen

several

of your linked in posts,

that It's going to make it

an

easier

yes for them because you've probably

like handled

a lot of those objections already through your, your content.

So it should save some time

later when you get on the phone

with them.

Yeah, and you already built that trust, you know, and they're

getting in touch, but they know that you specialize in that area, maybe

in developing plans for tight spaces.

spaces.

So you already have that expert status and they don't feel silly about asking

you any additional questions because the real burning questions they have.

You've already made a good start on addressing them.

So yeah, it works really well.

Brilliant.

So we've

been posting on

LinkedIn.

We've been asking some relevant

questions to

get some engagement with our audience.

We've been

making some posts,

that talk about some of the objections and we've been handling

those for our LinkedIn

posts as well.

So.

Let's say we're getting to the

point where

we've got some people

that are starting to get

interested in

working with

us, and maybe we want to

try

and get them over the line and turn them from, you know,

just

a follower on our LinkedIn or a connection into an

actual

customer.

So one of

the things that I've heard about

is, what

people

call FOMO,

the fear of missing out.

And

I'd be interested to know that how

we can

create some FOMO on

LinkedIn around

our, our offers and our

services.

To, you know, I think again, I'll just caveat that

by saying

genuine FOMO, not like something artificial,

because it

can, some, sometimes people can get the wrong end of things there and

think that it's not

genuine.

I'm, so I'm talking about how can we create some genuine

FOMO

about the scarcity of

what we

offer,

Because

the truth is that as a, small business owner or an architect

that's working on their own or in a

small practice,

there is some, there should be some natural scarcity there anyway.

Like you've only got a finite amount of time

to deliver

these services.

how can we get that across on LinkedIn?

Remember.

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Now, back to the show.

So I think the first thing which is valuable to point out is what

could be considered as leads on LinkedIn.

And I want to break to chat about that because often there is some confusion.

So when, for example, when you know that someone is regularly

commenting on your posts,

there's a level of interest and it would be good to capture those people.

Also when you are creating a poll and someone votes, that's again an

indication of someone potentially being interested in the service you're

offering or struggling with that problem you're talking about in the poll.

And then if someone reaches out to you in the DMs and the direct messages.

And, you know, if they're really making an effort to comment on something you said,

or maybe they've had you on a podcast, or where they've seen one of your local,

uh, pieces and walked by the projects that, Hey, we we noticed your building

board Most can all be considered leads.

So it's, it's, it's, really important just to, to really, okay.

So people who commented, people who voted on polls, people who have

sat or unfound me on on LinkedIn to really spread the net quite wide.

Now in terms of creating fear of missing out, there's a couple of techniques I

would, I would like to mention here.

So first of all, you know, as an architectural firm, you are often

in a really good position of having photos of the completed project.

So I would use these photos and I would talk about the, maybe there was

something challenging about the site, and maybe there was a huge uh, rush to

get things created, or maybe that it really Needed a lot of cooperation with

local neighbours, with the local council offices, Talk about what made the project

so challenging and also give a bit of an insight into how come back Because that

in itself will attract the kind of people who might have faced something similar.

And then you have such a visual service and you have pictures that

works really, really, really well.

Now, the second thing I like to highlight is, offering something

which people could download.

So I remember we had an extension build eight years ago and you know it

was the first time we had an extension build with architectural drawings and

it was quite a conundrum of things we had to solve and know about.

So it would have been amazing at that time to be able to download.

Here, are the top 10 things for how you can find the right architect for you.

And, and John, you and I in our marketing language, we call this a

lead market, so a hand riser, giving people an opportunity to get something

of value and reach and return, give you their email address and the same

actually works on, on, on LinkedIn.

So for my own business, I have a couple of hand risers.

One of them is free content ideas.

And whenever I post about it.

The people who want to download it, those are people who need content ideas.

Now, this is an area I specialize in, so again, I create FOMO by talking about it

and how easy it is to implement them and how we spoke well for my audience and

it creates that, fear of missing out.

Now the final point of what you sort of said, creating that scarcity, I absolutely

agree with you on that, you know, this is not something we should make up.

So for example, in my business, when I work on one on one coaching with people,

I generally only take two new clients every month because it's a lot of work

upfront in terms of getting to know the business owner, getting to know what they

need to do and putting a plan together.

Now, if I've been, I've been linked in, so there's only one slot left,

but actually there are still two slots left, or three slots left.

That's not genuine, and I really think about high levels of transparency,

and that you need to be honest in your marketing, because what does that say

about you as a person, as a business?

So I would really concentrate on the fear of missing out in terms of showing off

some of the successes you've had, and also really celebrating your clients.

So as an architect, you can congratulate that family you are

really brave in their choices, or that family you're really committed to.

I'm making some new choice in terms of sustainability or really making

it work for the local setting.

Congratulate them on that because celebrate their success

because that is your success.

So that's a tactic You will see on my linkedin account a fair bit, I show up

and my clients have had successes and I don't even have to say yes to that.

I played a small part on that, that's the kind of implication.

So that's a lovely way of creating that feel of missing out, absolutely.

That's

brilliant.

Thanks,

Nicole.

Something you mentioned earlier, you

mentioned about lurkers.

Now feels like a good time to talk about that.

So, everyone has lurkers, those people that perhaps

follow our social media accounts or maybe if you

have an email list the people that are on there that

perhaps don't

directly with

us.

So,

I mean, do you have any suggestions

of

how we could turn our LinkedIn lurkers

into, into leads and into

customers?

it's a tough one, because when we work in the marketing industry,

it's sometimes easy to forget how difficult it is actually to be visible

on social media, because It's obviously something we've worked on for years.

So the first tactic goes back to actually recognizing I need to make

this easy for people to speak up.

So when I look at my, schedule, I often like to have something

which drives engagement and that builds that human connection.

So maybe I will talk about A detail in my own personal business, journey,

and I'll share some learnings, a long road sign, a long road post.

And because I don't make it out that I was born perfect, I'm Mrs.

Perfect now.

I would never want to suggest that.

But I'm quite relatable, I would hope.

And I am not afraid of sharing some vulnerability.

So that in itself makes it easier for people to step out of lurking

and sometimes, you know, when I share something, let's say I used to have

speaking gigs and not being able to sleep for six months and I've worked on this,

you know, now it might be down to two or three weeks, but it's still there.

I get people reaching out to me in the DMs saying, Nicole, you know,

that really helped me that you said that, that was really relatable.

And yeah, that's exactly what I'm facing now.

So, so that's one way of making it really easy, to connect with your posts.

The other thing is, is, you know, we are so driven by metrics.

So how many followers do we have?

How many connections?

How many views?

How many engagements?

I always believe what really matters is.

uh, People talk about your LinkedIn presence to you in those discovery calls.

Oh, yes, Nicole, I've heard you talk about that.

Oh, yes, I've seen you on that video.

That to me is a testament that, okay, so they might have not felt brave

enough in that moment to reach out.

And that's fair enough.

A huge percentage on people are not, are not active on social media.

But there's something in that which made me very relatable to

them, very memorable to them.

And, you know, they've continued building that relationship with me.

So it's that.

Realization that yes, people might be lurking, but it doesn't mean

they're not reading your content.

So do continue working on that.

And the stats always change, but generally speaking, I think it's only

like 1 percent of LinkedIn users who are actually posting once a week.

So you can imagine where that's going.

It's for people engaging and commenting, uh, even less than that.

So this is the world we operate in.

Wow.

Only 1%.

That's quite a surprising

figure.

It's quite a surprising.

figure.

Oh, just one, I find attracting on which I sometimes forget to

mention is, I've lately, I'm experimenting with my own newsletter.

So often what I'll do, I'll have a newsletter about my tips,

something specific area, and then I'll encourage people to comment

on a related post on LinkedIn.

And that for me is working really well because suddenly it's not that

barrier having to reply back to the email, but actually then just

viewing my profile on LinkedIn or commenting or casting a vote on a poll.

So that's another way of testing out what might work with your

audience to lurk them out of lurking.

I love that.

I think I'm going to steal that idea and

link my email newsletter to a related LinkedIn posts.

fantastic.

So, Nicole, you must

see

all sorts of

common mistakes that

people make on LinkedIn.

could you perhaps share some of those and talk through how we can avoid them?

Yeah, fantastic question.

So I, as a LinkedIn trainer I specialize in working with agencies, but essentially

it's very similar to an architectural for professional services, right?

So the first mistake I often see is that.

There is no strategy behind how do we show what makes us different

how do we show that in our content?

And what this means is that you might be posting and you might be showing up, but

because there is no point of difference, you are not making the effort to really

show what makes you unique, a unique selling point or your brand values that

you end up blending into a background.

And LinkedIn is a pretty busy space.

So you want to have a unique tone of voice.

You want to have a unique approach to your imagery, because you want

to stand out and make it easy for people to connect with you.

So, so, so that's number one.

And then I talk about it, I often mentioned the orange van strategy

because you know, in England, we have lots of white vans or white transporters

and they all look the same, right?

Then you can't really distinguish one from the other.

So if you are looking for an architect and they're all in these five bands, well,

why would you reach out to a specific one?

So think of an orange band there.

It's completely customised, wrapping on the band.

It shows some beautiful diagrams and pictures of what they've

done, the contact, Details are on there and it's so different.

So you memorize them.

So you might not need an architect straight away, but they're top of mind or

your network are commenting on the post.

So that's the first thing we have a strategy behind standing up.

Then the next thing I do.

I would say is we often are so tempted because we're so worried about what we

post and how others might perceive it.

that we end up posting for our peers.

Now, I love my peers, John, you and I, we are peers.

We comment on each other's posts and that's great, but we've

got to work together, right?

I want my posts to be noticed and relevant by the kind of people either

that I can work with or who have access to the kind of audience I can work with.

all these types of people collaborate with.

So think about as an architect, you're essentially not posting for

other architects because, you know, they will want their own clients.

You're talking to the people on LinkedIn who might be in need

for an architectural service.

So you, you need to talk about different things, which are relevant for those.

It also means you bring it down to their level.

Do you know, I often find with LinkedIn, John, that you and I would be talking

a lot now about the know how, but that really makes a huge difference.

And then people develop their LinkedIn and mindset.

And they become that little bit braver and they are ignited

to let some of their fears go.

So if I was to talk to all my peers, I'll just talk about the know how

because I know these people are brave, you know, they're putting themselves

out there nothing stands in their way.

But for my audience, a lot of things stand in their way and it isn't just

that they don't know how LinkedIn works, it's actually because they're

worried what their peers will say.

Well, we found out there's a lot of impostor syndrome going on.

So this is really about what I meant by not.

Posting for my peers, but actually really talking to my

audience or potential clients.

And then the third thing, the third thing is to just be so worried in the beginning

that you never let yourself learn.

Now, this might sound really hard to do, but you know, As regular content

creators, we both know our first 10 to 100 pieces of something are

not going to be very good, right?

They might get no engagement whatsoever, no one reads them,

no one comments, but that's okay.

The important thing is to get started and to learn by the kind of

feedback you're getting and to really building your LinkedIn muscles.

So it's that kind of need of perfectionism and not wanting to, wanting to let

go of some of these fears, which really stops people in their track.

So I would say that's actually Biggest one is, is that it's got to be perfect and

if it's not perfect, I'm not posting it.

But Then you don't learn and you can't test up the messaging with your audience.

So yeah, hopefully those are three common mistakes.

So we're not standing out thinking about your peers too much and not

really posting for your audience.

And we're not getting started because we're standing on our own way.

Those are three top mistakes I see all the time.

That's

really helpful.

Thanks for sharing that.

what

would be the main thing that you'd like the listeners

to take away

from this conversation?

I would like them to, first of all, have a

look at their profile again.

And see it through the eyes of their potential clients.

you including all of the things which they need to know about you?

Are you showing a bit of personality?

Is your profile optimized?

Do you have content which appeals to them?

So that would be the first thing.

Then the next thing I really like them to do is John, really what you brought

up in the beginning, which is really to think about the kind of questions

they get and their discovery calls.

You know, when they didn't get, when they didn't win a pitch

or proposal, why was that?

It's that content they could be adding to their LinkedIn routine?

And then the final thing I would just like to mention, I would encourage

everyone to consider actually, do I have a LinkedIn routine, which

covers all the different areas?

I know you and I, we talked a lot today about posting and what to post, but, what

about growing your network strategically?

What about being active in the DMs?

All of these are key components of LinkedIn success.

Now, wherever you are, you can always take that next step.

So I just really want people to feel encouraged that they can do it.

And it doesn't have to be perfect.

Nothing ever is perfect when we start, but just enjoy it and let yourself learn.

That's brilliant.

Thanks, Nicole.

Was there anything else that you wanted to add that we haven't

covered in the

conversation?

you know ? That's really amazing.

Now, I feel you've asked me all sorts of perfect questions, so thank you so much.

Yeah, I would just say if someone wants a bit more of a bespoke tip, really feel

free to reach out to me on, LinkedIn.

This is my main social media platform, so yeah, always love to

hear comments and additional questions and anything I can help, with.

thank you.

That's brilliant.

So it's time for me to ask the regular question that

I ask all of the

guests on the show.

I, I've always loved travel and discovering new places.

And I just wondered if you could tell me about one of your favorite

places and what you love about it.

And it doesn't matter if it's near or far.

This is going to be a place which is very close.

I live in London and actually Bournemouth.

Now, when I first came to England, all these years ago, I

actually came over as an au pair.

And before that, I came over as a language student for a month,

and I was very, very young.

And, I remember I did learn a lot of language, and I did hang out on

Bournemouth Beach a lot, and obviously we had the lower gardens, and it's

just a lovely seaside town, right?

So, I just recently went back, years later, and it was just so fabulous just

seeing how Bournemouth has evolved.

And it still has also kept some of these original features.

Obviously, we've got a beautiful pier, we've got the lower gardens,

and it's a really good sort of seaside town, where there's lots

of language students still around.

They've got the most beautiful ice cream, and yeah, anyone looking for a destination

where you can take your kids and, have a bit of fun, be by the seaside, yeah, I

highly recommend the form of, obviously, beautiful beaches as well and coastlines.

So yeah, that's my recent favourite new place.

Oh,

you know what?

I

think I went there when I was

a

toddler or a baby.

I

don't remember any of it, but I remember my parents telling me about a family

holiday there,

which I think I was ill.

I think I was

ill for the whole time while we were there.

But it is somewhere I'd like to go back and visit

again now.

so I shall add it

to my bucket list of destinations to go visit in

the UK.

Nicole,

this has been absolutely fantastic.

Thank

you so much for joining

me on the show and sharing your expertise.

I've really

enjoyed the conversation and I'm sure that everyone in the audience will do too.

Can you just

remind everyone the best place to

connect with you, which

I think I

know where it's going

to be, but I'll let you say it.

Yes, anyone in the audience who would love to reach

out, maybe read some more tips or ask some more questions, please come

and connect with me on LinkedIn.

John is kindly going to put the link to my profile in the show notes and

Nicole Osborne on LinkedIn and I can't wait to hear from your audience.

Thank you, John.

Brilliant.

Thanks again,

Nicole.

Next time I'm joined by Aja.

Schlachter to explore the benefits of outsourcing and how you can get started.

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