00:00:06.169 --> 00:00:14.049

We talk a lot on this podcast about the lack of relationship between alignment and injury.

00:00:17.329 --> 00:00:22.309

And in that regard, we're kind of unique.

00:00:22.509 --> 00:00:25.449

I mean, there's one or two other people out there talking about it.

00:00:25.569 --> 00:00:26.809

Shout out to Adam McAtee.

00:00:29.369 --> 00:00:36.069

But most of the plot is metaverse. And I think you have the major players in the industry.

00:00:37.329 --> 00:00:42.489

Still very much grounded in alignment protocols for safety.

00:00:44.869 --> 00:00:53.029

And one of our favorite instructors here at Breathe Education happens to be

00:00:53.029 --> 00:00:54.169

on the other end of the microphone.

00:00:56.249 --> 00:01:01.469

And I think he's standing on a pile of about three soapboxes.

00:01:03.387 --> 00:01:07.887

Right now. And that's, uh, that's my friend Heath Lander.

00:01:10.887 --> 00:01:16.307

Yeah, that's me. I, um, well, I've, I've brought the topic today and,

00:01:16.467 --> 00:01:18.867

uh, I've slept badly while chewing on it.

00:01:19.047 --> 00:01:23.427

Um, I was driving, I had a long drive yesterday, time to think,

00:01:23.567 --> 00:01:29.927

listen to some podcasts and I was listening to some, some people talk about this idea of, um,

00:01:30.347 --> 00:01:35.107

surplus value and, or negative value and they were they were talking about in

00:01:35.107 --> 00:01:36.647

terms of raising children and that,

00:01:37.267 --> 00:01:40.207

while you're raising a child they're a negative value

00:01:40.207 --> 00:01:42.967

on society you know and by nature you know almost by

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definition they you know when they

00:01:45.747 --> 00:01:49.047

call 9-1-1 or when they get on the tube or when

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they go to school other people are putting value into

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the society that they're drawing down on and this

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the premise of this was that at some point that has to transition

00:01:58.087 --> 00:02:01.567

tip over as you become a functioning

00:02:01.567 --> 00:02:04.667

adult you start to create surplus

00:02:04.667 --> 00:02:08.527

value that puts back into the society and uh

00:02:08.527 --> 00:02:13.507

and i personally align with that and that's what i've seen in you know being

00:02:13.507 --> 00:02:17.087

a parent i think that's a valuable way to think about it and then what struck

00:02:17.087 --> 00:02:26.627

me was i've personally always been very careful to preface any discussion around a comparison between.

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The evidence-based approach that, as you say, ourselves at Breathe and others, some others,

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do the work to implement, which is hard work because the evidence changes and

00:02:39.287 --> 00:02:42.547

it means your education structure has to evolve and change and you've got to

00:02:42.547 --> 00:02:47.027

do a whole lot of work in terms of upskilling and rebuilding programs when you do it.

00:02:48.227 --> 00:02:54.827

We've done that and I've always tiptoed around making a comparison between that

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and education structures that aren't but.

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My epiphany while I was driving is I just, I actually think that what I see people,

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the transformation that we see instructors go through when they come and understand

00:03:12.071 --> 00:03:16.831

evidence-based, an evidence-based approach to Pilates versus a non-evidence-based approach.

00:03:18.931 --> 00:03:21.931

A takes them a really long time and they're

00:03:21.931 --> 00:03:25.091

not it's not because they're not cognitively agile they've

00:03:25.091 --> 00:03:27.811

just been indoctrinated as one is in an

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institution with concepts and beliefs that are then hard to shift especially

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when they're associated with large financial investment and time investment

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and they're coming out of education

00:03:41.451 --> 00:03:45.671

providers that teach them this still teach them this to this day,

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and they're passing them on to their clients.

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And what struck me was, you know, one of the things that makes me feel like

00:03:53.471 --> 00:03:58.811

my life has been a surplus value is that by helping people actually become stronger,

00:03:58.911 --> 00:04:01.311

more flexible, and more skillful so they can live healthier,

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happier, longer lives, which is my little mantra,

00:04:03.711 --> 00:04:08.071

which we've talked about before, and it's not an unreasonable claim based on the evidence,

00:04:08.291 --> 00:04:11.771

is that I'm helping, not just,

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i'm giving an it's an opportunity for me to

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create surplus value and if i make someone healthier happier

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and fit flexible stronger more skillful etc etc they can raise better kids they

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can make more money they can run better businesses they can do their job better

00:04:29.671 --> 00:04:33.711

they can live longer they can be less of a drain on the health services you

00:04:33.711 --> 00:04:37.031

know they all of that is surplus value in the community.

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And then if I then was to flip what I do back to what I was taught,

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which is to tell people that moving to end range is dangerous.

00:04:46.911 --> 00:04:51.951

That moving under load such that your form dissipates is dangerous, then I'm actively...

00:04:53.972 --> 00:05:02.692

I'm actively reducing the value that I could put back into the community via that person.

00:05:03.032 --> 00:05:06.372

And all of a sudden, I just thought, fuck it. This is bullshit.

00:05:06.892 --> 00:05:10.892

We're part of this industry that's growing around the world.

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And most of the injury, like the big players, are still telling people that

00:05:16.812 --> 00:05:20.752

you should move in a particular way under nominal loads.

00:05:21.372 --> 00:05:25.792

And your breath pattern or your muscle firing pattern is more important than

00:05:25.792 --> 00:05:30.092

how much load you're under or the range of motion that you're in or the skill

00:05:30.092 --> 00:05:34.312

that you scale up to bigger movements so that you feel more confident in your daily life.

00:05:34.472 --> 00:05:38.212

And I just thought, fuck it, that's negative value. That's a crime against humanity,

00:05:38.352 --> 00:05:44.012

to be purporting that horse shit to people who are passionate, passionate people,

00:05:44.372 --> 00:05:48.532

instructors, being taught things that are completely out of date you know there's

00:05:48.532 --> 00:05:53.192

just no excuse as far as and i mean i know i'm on the soapboxes there but i

00:05:53.192 --> 00:06:00.292

just can't see that there is any excuse for not updating your teaching structures in 2025.

00:06:03.370 --> 00:06:06.530

And I just feel like I'm sick of saying, oh, look, all movement's good movement

00:06:06.530 --> 00:06:08.250

because yes, all movement's good movement.

00:06:08.410 --> 00:06:13.410

But in terms of creating surplus value in other humans, some movement is measurably

00:06:13.410 --> 00:06:14.390

better than other movement.

00:06:14.550 --> 00:06:18.490

And that's movement that actually makes them stronger, more flexible, more skillful.

00:06:18.730 --> 00:06:23.610

So if you knowingly withhold that information because you don't have the energy

00:06:23.610 --> 00:06:27.270

to change your education structures or you're too calcified in your thinking

00:06:27.270 --> 00:06:29.750

to admit that you were wrong,

00:06:29.750 --> 00:06:32.510

like someone needs to put a firecracker up your ass and tell

00:06:32.510 --> 00:06:35.630

you to move on and let the new generation come through like fuck

00:06:35.630 --> 00:06:38.410

that you know this is other people's health

00:06:38.410 --> 00:06:41.510

that you're fucking with for the sake of what ultimately is

00:06:41.510 --> 00:06:48.930

money and laziness yeah that's what i was thinking i think um i mean i i broadly

00:06:48.930 --> 00:06:55.910

agree i think there's a lot of myths i guess i'm less skeptical or less cynical

00:06:55.910 --> 00:06:59.010

about human motivations there.

00:06:59.010 --> 00:07:01.690

I think it's just, you know, a combination.

00:07:02.030 --> 00:07:05.010

I don't think people are, you know, willfully misleading people.

00:07:05.010 --> 00:07:07.330

I think it's just kind of intellectual laziness.

00:07:08.050 --> 00:07:13.550

Um, you know, if you're balanced body or start Pilates and you've got, you know,

00:07:13.930 --> 00:07:19.190

20,000 copies of Emmanuel in print, it's, it's really hard to just,

00:07:19.390 --> 00:07:23.870

you know, make a quick little edit and go, you know what, actually neutral spy is not that important.

00:07:23.870 --> 00:07:27.990

It turns out, um, you know, you've got like, you know,

00:07:28.570 --> 00:07:31.710

5,000 instructor trainers around the world to, you know,

00:07:32.190 --> 00:07:35.050

turning out X number of tens of thousands of budgets, you know,

00:07:35.130 --> 00:07:39.970

it's like, and you've translated your materials into 17 languages and what,

00:07:40.010 --> 00:07:44.110

you know, it's like, it, it, it's, it's hard to turn a big ship like that.

00:07:46.023 --> 00:07:54.223

Um, and, and the, the, how big and impressive and, and established it is,

00:07:54.563 --> 00:07:58.963

is, is the Achilles, the Achilles heel of that is it's really,

00:07:59.163 --> 00:08:04.103

really hard to, to change direction, you know? Um, yeah.

00:08:04.603 --> 00:08:09.143

And we see it even in universities, which are supposed to, I mean,

00:08:09.183 --> 00:08:13.383

that's where the research literally happens, that the average university course

00:08:13.383 --> 00:08:16.863

is something like eight to 10 years out of date.

00:08:20.063 --> 00:08:23.723

And that is because just the inertia.

00:08:24.023 --> 00:08:28.723

But that's where I get frustrated because we've been saying that on their behalf

00:08:28.723 --> 00:08:32.363

for as long as I've been studying with you, and that's 15 years.

00:08:33.123 --> 00:08:36.163

And i do take your point absolutely who was

00:08:36.163 --> 00:08:38.783

it that said i can't remember who was it that said it's like

00:08:38.783 --> 00:08:42.183

it's very hard to convince a man um of some

00:08:42.183 --> 00:08:46.103

you know of something when he's when he's when his uh when

00:08:46.103 --> 00:08:49.163

his income depends on him not not understanding it you

00:08:49.163 --> 00:08:52.163

know um and so it's very

00:08:52.163 --> 00:08:55.603

hard like if you've got this business and you stop pilates or balanced body

00:08:55.603 --> 00:09:00.983

or bassy or whoever you know that is studio pilates all of them teach these

00:09:00.983 --> 00:09:07.063

kind of alignment protocols you know front and center that you know you've got

00:09:07.063 --> 00:09:11.183

a what you know at a guest 20 million dollar a year business,

00:09:12.143 --> 00:09:19.183

that is based around teaching these things it's like well that's a major disincentive

00:09:19.183 --> 00:09:23.523

to you know to change absolutely yeah.

00:09:26.218 --> 00:09:32.638

Um, but I agree it's a negative value and I think we are, I mean,

00:09:32.758 --> 00:09:39.478

I guess the reason I'm, the reason I, I guess I'm guilty of being,

00:09:39.818 --> 00:09:42.918

you know, kind of soft on crime, uh,

00:09:43.498 --> 00:09:46.038

as well in this.

00:09:46.178 --> 00:09:49.758

And, and the, I, and I do that consciously. I don't give a shit about offending,

00:09:50.118 --> 00:09:57.578

you know, the big Pilates companies, but I do give a shit about offending Pilates,

00:09:57.578 --> 00:10:00.438

our listeners, Pilates instructors. I don't want to.

00:10:00.638 --> 00:10:04.738

Yeah, absolutely. I don't want, I don't want, you know, people listening to

00:10:04.738 --> 00:10:09.658

this podcast to feel that, that we don't respect them or we think they're stupid

00:10:09.658 --> 00:10:11.138

or, you know, anything like that.

00:10:11.198 --> 00:10:17.278

So I guess that's why I'm, you know, I guess I would say.

00:10:20.851 --> 00:10:25.931

Overly diplomatic a lot of the time in, in talking about this.

00:10:26.031 --> 00:10:28.271

And it's kind of like, you know, all movement's good.

00:10:28.451 --> 00:10:30.871

And, and, and it's true. All movement is good.

00:10:31.591 --> 00:10:36.271

Right. Absolutely. That's the, and I don't want to, I don't want to misrepresent

00:10:36.271 --> 00:10:40.311

myself because I don't want to say that I'm saying that, you know,

00:10:40.371 --> 00:10:42.131

there is movement that's bad.

00:10:42.131 --> 00:10:50.391

And it's just that my little passion spike last night was that always saying

00:10:50.391 --> 00:10:53.011

first off, look, let's remember that all movement's good movement.

00:10:53.131 --> 00:10:57.351

It sort of ameliorates having a different position because it's like,

00:10:57.411 --> 00:10:59.091

okay, as long as everyone's moving, we're good.

00:10:59.191 --> 00:11:03.051

And it's like, well, actually within that, once we accept the assumption that

00:11:03.051 --> 00:11:07.771

all movement is better than no movement, then there is movement that is objectively

00:11:07.771 --> 00:11:11.511

more productive for human health and longevity.

00:11:11.511 --> 00:11:16.351

It's saying all movement's good is not the same thing as saying all movement's equally good.

00:11:17.531 --> 00:11:21.511

Equal, right. So yeah, all movement's better than no movement,

00:11:21.631 --> 00:11:24.471

but once you've got people moving, there is movement that's measurably better

00:11:24.471 --> 00:11:28.511

for the outcomes that make human life better or create surplus value.

00:11:28.711 --> 00:11:32.171

And the other part of that that's really frustrating, then we get this whole

00:11:32.171 --> 00:11:34.851

thing about Pilates somehow being better than fitness.

00:11:35.051 --> 00:11:38.031

Like, you know, heaven forbid that we call Pilates fitness training

00:11:38.031 --> 00:11:41.571

or whatever the fuck like if you're moving and you're getting stronger and more

00:11:41.571 --> 00:11:48.211

flexible that's the variable right like not where your movement came from you

00:11:48.211 --> 00:11:51.991

know and we only need to look at joseph and and what he how he taught anyway

00:11:51.991 --> 00:11:56.531

i mean you know where i'm going with that but so.

00:11:57.888 --> 00:12:01.648

All right. So, I mean, there's lots of stuff that we, you know,

00:12:02.168 --> 00:12:06.488

disagree with about in how Pilates is taught.

00:12:06.848 --> 00:12:12.808

And, you know, we've been fortunate enough to be able to just go and create

00:12:12.808 --> 00:12:17.988

our own education company that teaches the way we think it should be taught.

00:12:19.308 --> 00:12:23.848

And we base that the way we think it should be taught on current science as much as possible.

00:12:24.988 --> 00:12:28.568

And we're also lucky enough to be smart. And change our program when there's

00:12:28.568 --> 00:12:32.928

new evidence. Yeah. And you're in the middle of doing that for the umpteenth time right now.

00:12:33.088 --> 00:12:36.168

And, you know, that's basically a permanent job almost.

00:12:36.368 --> 00:12:39.208

Like they say, painting the Sydney Harbour Bridge, you know,

00:12:39.288 --> 00:12:41.828

they go from one end and paint it all the way to the other end and they just

00:12:41.828 --> 00:12:46.048

start at the first end again and go again because it takes that long to paint

00:12:46.048 --> 00:12:48.328

it. By the time you get to the other end, it needs painting again.

00:12:49.008 --> 00:12:51.468

And it's kind of like that with rebuilding our course. You know,

00:12:51.508 --> 00:12:54.168

we rebuild it and as soon as we finish it, we have to start rebuilding it again,

00:12:54.568 --> 00:12:58.388

you know, because the new evidence comes out, you know, new ACSM guidelines

00:12:58.388 --> 00:13:02.008

come out or new modal learning research comes out or new, you know,

00:13:02.968 --> 00:13:05.908

educational design research comes out or whatever it might be.

00:13:06.228 --> 00:13:09.328

And so, or we just, you know, learn, we have more student data,

00:13:09.788 --> 00:13:11.148

what works, what doesn't.

00:13:11.468 --> 00:13:15.128

You know, the market changes, you know, what employers want has changed.

00:13:16.128 --> 00:13:20.248

You know, so, so yeah, it is kind of a Sydney Harbour Bridge thing.

00:13:21.268 --> 00:13:24.128

But i guess uh you know one thing

00:13:24.128 --> 00:13:26.788

that like you say kind of hasn't changed you know

00:13:26.788 --> 00:13:30.648

really in the last i would say 20 years

00:13:30.648 --> 00:13:39.328

now and over that time there has been increasing amounts of literature uh on

00:13:39.328 --> 00:13:49.388

the lack of association between alignment and or cause injury risk and it's just not It's just not,

00:13:49.608 --> 00:13:51.648

I would say that.

00:13:53.856 --> 00:14:01.796

No reasonable, I don't think any reasonable, you know,

00:14:02.456 --> 00:14:08.336

scientist, any person who has read the literature widely could reasonably take

00:14:08.336 --> 00:14:15.836

the position that alignment is a major factor in all-cause injury risk.

00:14:16.776 --> 00:14:19.616

You know, I don't think a reasonable person could take that position.

00:14:21.476 --> 00:14:31.136

Now, there is a lot of, and to be fair to people reading this literature and

00:14:31.136 --> 00:14:35.136

maybe not feeling clear on that, there are a lot of….

00:14:37.436 --> 00:14:41.496

I think there's a lot of motivated reasoning that happens even within the literature

00:14:41.496 --> 00:14:43.956

itself and interpreting of it.

00:14:44.496 --> 00:14:49.216

Like there's, you know, if you look at the literature on biomechanics and injury

00:14:49.216 --> 00:14:53.596

risk, you know, you'll find like, oh yeah, there's a lot of biomechanical literature

00:14:53.596 --> 00:14:56.856

showing that, you know, alignment predicts injury risk, right?

00:14:57.036 --> 00:15:01.096

But then when you look at almost all of that literature, they're looking at,

00:15:01.236 --> 00:15:02.656

they're not actually looking at injury risk.

00:15:03.176 --> 00:15:05.136

They're looking at proxies for injury

00:15:05.136 --> 00:15:10.956

risk, like loading on a joint or EMG activity in a certain alignment.

00:15:11.036 --> 00:15:15.136

So when we squat with our knees inwards, that increases loading on the lateral

00:15:15.136 --> 00:15:16.116

compartment of the knee.

00:15:16.696 --> 00:15:22.536

And therefore, we conclude that doing that is dangerous because that might overload the knee.

00:15:22.656 --> 00:15:30.356

But it's like that prima facie, like on the face of it, But that is a hypothesis

00:15:30.356 --> 00:15:34.496

that by increasing the loading on that compartment of the knee, we increase injuries.

00:15:35.116 --> 00:15:39.036

We have no evidence that that's true. And there's an equal argument,

00:15:39.236 --> 00:15:41.816

a very plausible argument, saying it's not true at all.

00:15:41.896 --> 00:15:48.276

It's like, well, when you do a biceps curl, it increases loading on the elbow joint.

00:15:48.796 --> 00:15:52.676

So should we not avoid biceps curls because that might cause injury?

00:15:52.676 --> 00:15:58.876

It's like exercise is the process of deliberately loading the tissues of the

00:15:58.876 --> 00:16:01.336

body in order to stimulate a strengthening response.

00:16:01.476 --> 00:16:05.356

Like that's what strengthening is, right? So deliberately loading the tissues of the body.

00:16:05.496 --> 00:16:08.816

So saying like doing X, Y, and Z increases loading on this particular tissue,

00:16:08.916 --> 00:16:14.016

it's like, so, you know, it's like, how do we know that's a bad thing, right?

00:16:14.016 --> 00:16:18.876

And so when you look at this literature, there's a lot of that stuff on joint

00:16:18.876 --> 00:16:26.016

loads and EMG, you know, and very, very little looking at like, okay,

00:16:26.256 --> 00:16:27.196

people who squat with their knees

00:16:27.196 --> 00:16:31.976

in, how many of them actually get knee injuries, you know, afterwards?

00:16:32.856 --> 00:16:35.976

And guess what? The answer is… Right. And when they get the knee injury…,

00:16:37.832 --> 00:16:40.172

Because when they get the knee injury, what's the other variable?

00:16:40.192 --> 00:16:42.332

It's how much and how often are they training.

00:16:43.332 --> 00:16:47.092

And what's their nutrition status? How old are they? You know,

00:16:47.112 --> 00:16:49.172

what's their body composition? What's their weight?

00:16:49.592 --> 00:16:53.532

You know, what's their, there's so many, so many things, you know.

00:16:54.692 --> 00:17:01.532

Yeah. And just to what, like taking that and winding it back to what I think

00:17:01.532 --> 00:17:03.372

was a major turning point for me,

00:17:03.532 --> 00:17:08.992

and it was when a course, when you changed a course that, Back then I was still,

00:17:09.052 --> 00:17:14.292

I think I was studying or delivering, I can't remember, but back in the day,

00:17:14.452 --> 00:17:17.032

we were taught all that research.

00:17:17.032 --> 00:17:19.812

I think it was McGill that did the research on the pig spines.

00:17:19.992 --> 00:17:24.072

And then blinding flash of the blatantly fucking obvious, we were assessing

00:17:24.072 --> 00:17:27.892

the risk on dead tissues. And what we forgot to allow for was that when you

00:17:27.892 --> 00:17:29.392

load a human spine, they're not dead.

00:17:29.572 --> 00:17:33.452

And if you give them rest and nutrition appropriately, those tissues actually

00:17:33.452 --> 00:17:37.572

strengthen rather than just slamming them for 50,000 repetitions over a weekend.

00:17:38.132 --> 00:17:42.052

On a machine so that you can test the response to, I mean, you could probably

00:17:42.052 --> 00:17:47.552

talk much more accurately to the actual experiment, but just that idea of when

00:17:47.552 --> 00:17:48.852

I grew up in Pilates land.

00:17:49.692 --> 00:17:53.532

Why we taught neutral was predicated on tests done on dead tissues.

00:17:53.812 --> 00:17:59.192

Yeah. Well, I think that's the problem with pretty much any research in this

00:17:59.192 --> 00:18:07.812

area is almost to all of it actually isn't human trials that evaluate injury incidents, right?

00:18:07.932 --> 00:18:11.112

So what you, you know, like if you want to know, does, you know,

00:18:11.152 --> 00:18:15.152

bending your back or squatting with the knees in or whatever cause more injuries, right?

00:18:15.412 --> 00:18:19.192

Well, what you, you know, the gold standard to act, the way to actually measure

00:18:19.192 --> 00:18:22.812

that is to get a bunch of people, have half of them squat with their knees in,

00:18:22.892 --> 00:18:26.652

half of them not squat with their knees in, follow them for a year so you get to sore knee.

00:18:28.308 --> 00:18:31.988

And just that would be the gold standard, right?

00:18:32.668 --> 00:18:37.528

But it's really, really hard to do that. And so what we end up doing is we have

00:18:37.528 --> 00:18:43.328

people come into the lab for one day, we put AMGs on their knees and we go, okay, let's squat.

00:18:43.448 --> 00:18:46.388

Oh, when you squatted that way, it reduced the activation of tibialis anterior.

00:18:46.588 --> 00:18:48.948

That could cause increased weight on the lateral compartment of the knee.

00:18:49.328 --> 00:18:50.388

Therefore, that increases injury

00:18:50.388 --> 00:18:57.188

risk, right? So there's so many assumptions in between A and Z there.

00:18:57.188 --> 00:19:00.108

Or the other thing we do is we get you know

00:19:00.108 --> 00:19:03.248

we cut you know bits out of pig spines and we

00:19:03.248 --> 00:19:08.548

stick them in a jig and we bend them 86,400 times in 24 hours and then we say

00:19:08.548 --> 00:19:14.688

huh a lot of them got injured right therefore bending is dangerous you know

00:19:14.688 --> 00:19:18.688

but it's like all right well if if if you got a real live human and you got

00:19:18.688 --> 00:19:23.048

them to do 86,400 of anything you know even just.

00:19:24.908 --> 00:19:30.088

Without a break got them to like stand in perfect neutral posture you know with

00:19:30.088 --> 00:19:35.148

a dumbbell in each hand right for 24 hours which is 86,400 seconds,

00:19:36.491 --> 00:19:40.231

You probably get some injuries there, right?

00:19:40.311 --> 00:19:46.411

So just let alone doing 86,400 reps of any exercise in 24 hours.

00:19:46.671 --> 00:19:51.331

So it's like, but if you've got that person to do like 10 reps and then wait

00:19:51.331 --> 00:19:53.791

a couple of minutes and do that again and do that three times and do that three

00:19:53.791 --> 00:19:58.711

times a week and over 10 years do 86,400 reps, they'll probably just get a fuckload

00:19:58.711 --> 00:20:00.931

stronger and they wouldn't get injured, right?

00:20:01.071 --> 00:20:05.311

So it's like a lot of this literature, that's a really great example of it actually

00:20:05.311 --> 00:20:09.371

doesn't measure injury risk in live humans.

00:20:09.611 --> 00:20:13.931

We're measuring proxies. Either we're measuring proxy measures in live humans

00:20:13.931 --> 00:20:17.491

or we're measuring injury in dead pigs.

00:20:18.071 --> 00:20:19.691

Dead tissues. Yeah.

00:20:21.531 --> 00:20:28.971

And it's interesting that, you know, we do have some literature on looking at,

00:20:28.991 --> 00:20:32.511

you know, particular alignment and particular injuries.

00:20:32.511 --> 00:20:36.911

And so one of the things, like in humans, and so one of the areas we have, um,

00:20:38.300 --> 00:20:41.980

Well, two areas we have are foot pronation, ankle pronation,

00:20:42.180 --> 00:20:47.280

and then also knee valgus, you know, knees going in.

00:20:48.720 --> 00:20:52.540

And we see that when we look at foot pronation,

00:20:53.160 --> 00:21:02.200

people who run a lot regularly and who have very pronated feet tend to suffer

00:21:02.200 --> 00:21:07.300

more ankle injuries than people who run the equivalent amount and don't have

00:21:07.300 --> 00:21:08.900

very pronated feet, right?

00:21:09.080 --> 00:21:11.720

So you think, oh, well, pronation causes injury. Yeah,

00:21:12.080 --> 00:21:17.480

pronation can predispose people to ankle injuries, but people who have very

00:21:17.480 --> 00:21:23.400

pronated feet and run a lot have fewer tibial stress injuries than people who

00:21:23.400 --> 00:21:24.700

have non-pronated feet.

00:21:24.820 --> 00:21:28.900

So actually having pronated feet makes it more likely you'll have one particular

00:21:28.900 --> 00:21:31.260

injury and less likely you'll have a different particular injury,

00:21:31.380 --> 00:21:33.960

which kind of makes sense because if you think like, okay, when you pronate,

00:21:34.040 --> 00:21:35.680

it loads up the ankle more and probably offloads,

00:21:36.440 --> 00:21:40.220

the tibia, because the pronated position of the foot is the shock-absorbing

00:21:40.220 --> 00:21:44.320

position of the foot, so there's a softer landing, but it's all going into the ankle.

00:21:44.920 --> 00:21:47.120

So it's like, okay, you're loading the ankle more and the tibia less,

00:21:47.220 --> 00:21:48.460

so therefore the ankle has more injuries.

00:21:49.160 --> 00:21:52.620

Whereas when you are neutral, you have fewer ankle injuries,

00:21:52.640 --> 00:21:53.640

but more tibial injuries.

00:21:55.027 --> 00:21:59.967

Right. So we could frame that exact same research a different way and say people

00:21:59.967 --> 00:22:05.987

who don't pronate have more tibial injuries or people with a neutral foot have more tibial injuries.

00:22:06.467 --> 00:22:10.367

You know, so are we all going to go, oh crap, we should all stop having neutral feet now.

00:22:10.687 --> 00:22:15.227

No, I think what we find is when we look at the overall, what's the incidence

00:22:15.227 --> 00:22:18.667

of ankle injuries versus tibial injuries? Well, the answer is they're about the same.

00:22:18.887 --> 00:22:23.147

And so whether you have pronated feet or non-pronated feet, your total chance

00:22:23.147 --> 00:22:27.567

of getting some kind of injury is about the same, right?

00:22:27.967 --> 00:22:32.727

But just where that injury is likely to be is probably, you know,

00:22:32.807 --> 00:22:34.827

if you're a pronator, it's probably more likely to be in your ankle.

00:22:34.907 --> 00:22:37.687

If you're not a pronator, it's more likely to be in your shin, right?

00:22:38.207 --> 00:22:41.827

And so that's a very, very typical example.

00:22:42.087 --> 00:22:47.727

And we see that a lot in what human intervention studies we do have with alignment

00:22:47.727 --> 00:22:54.827

injury is that particular alignments do increase injury incidence of one particular type of injury,

00:22:54.967 --> 00:22:58.867

but at the same time, there's an equal and opposite decrease in the incidence

00:22:58.867 --> 00:23:00.667

of some other particular type of injury.

00:23:00.727 --> 00:23:03.687

And it all evens out in the wash in almost every case.

00:23:06.327 --> 00:23:11.727

Yeah. And, you know, dear listener, listen to Ralph explain that as many times

00:23:11.727 --> 00:23:13.027

as you need to, But can we just,

00:23:13.647 --> 00:23:16.767

because I would need to, if I hadn't heard him explain it many times before,

00:23:17.087 --> 00:23:23.547

but just for us in Pilates, the Pilates space, let's just bring that back to our reformer class.

00:23:24.227 --> 00:23:28.467

You know, if you've been taught at Pilates school that the way your clients

00:23:28.467 --> 00:23:34.127

lunge on one red spring or one blue spring, whether their knee is in or out

00:23:34.127 --> 00:23:37.247

is a risk to their ankle or their knee, like you just don't.

00:23:37.932 --> 00:23:40.792

Ref catch me if i'm missing something here

00:23:40.792 --> 00:23:44.012

but you're just not applying enough load over enough repetitions

00:23:44.012 --> 00:23:47.752

you just haven't got time or enough load to

00:23:47.752 --> 00:23:50.712

have any of those things be a concern because your clients need to leave in

00:23:50.712 --> 00:23:54.592

the next 45 minutes and go home and rest and then not you're just not those

00:23:54.592 --> 00:23:58.032

injuries are like when you're running too much over a week right the variable

00:23:58.032 --> 00:24:02.112

is how many miles you run per week so if your clients come to you twice a week

00:24:02.112 --> 00:24:04.292

and you do lunges each time you see them,

00:24:04.492 --> 00:24:06.612

do the lunge any fucking way you want.

00:24:06.732 --> 00:24:10.532

You're just not doing enough reps to put yourself in the risk category that

00:24:10.532 --> 00:24:12.992

puts you in the conversation that Raph just talked about.

00:24:13.412 --> 00:24:16.772

I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, Raph, but how many lunges would you need to

00:24:16.772 --> 00:24:21.232

do to put yourself in that conversation? Yeah, so that's a really good point.

00:24:21.612 --> 00:24:24.932

And there's no literature on

00:24:24.932 --> 00:24:29.012

Pilates and the injury risk of people doing Pilates that I've ever read.

00:24:29.012 --> 00:24:33.112

I've looked, but I haven't found any literature looking at, okay.

00:24:34.032 --> 00:24:37.332

In a Pilates class, what is your chance of getting injured? What's the baseline rate?

00:24:37.672 --> 00:24:41.992

We don't know. But we know we have research in yoga, in breakdancing,

00:24:42.672 --> 00:24:47.732

in wrestling, all of which are kind of, sort of similar to Pilates.

00:24:47.952 --> 00:24:53.972

We have lots of literature on gym injuries and weightlifting and powerlifting,

00:24:53.972 --> 00:24:59.512

which you know, in other ways are kind of, sort of, you know, similar to Pilates.

00:25:00.232 --> 00:25:04.952

Um, and what we see is that all of these things are extremely safe.

00:25:05.352 --> 00:25:06.772

All of them are extremely safe.

00:25:08.012 --> 00:25:12.472

And, uh, one of the safest things you can do in fact is strength training,

00:25:12.732 --> 00:25:16.772

whether it's Olympic weightlifting, powerlifting, or just going to lifting weights

00:25:16.772 --> 00:25:19.312

at the gym, you know, hitting the chest press or whatever.

00:25:20.312 --> 00:25:24.132

Uh, I don't have the stats right in front of me, but the number of injuries

00:25:24.132 --> 00:25:27.892

per thousand hours of, you know, training in gym. It's microscopic.

00:25:28.112 --> 00:25:31.192

It's like, you know, three per hundred thousand hours. It's very,

00:25:31.292 --> 00:25:32.332

very, very small, right?

00:25:33.172 --> 00:25:35.772

And the overwhelming majority of….

00:25:37.725 --> 00:25:45.045

Of injuries that occur in, you know, gyms are not people doing exercise incorrectly.

00:25:45.085 --> 00:25:50.105

It's people dropping shit on their own feet and tripping over and falling off

00:25:50.105 --> 00:25:52.185

cardio machines, right?

00:25:52.385 --> 00:25:55.885

So just imagine, you know, some idiot leaves the weights out and you're walking

00:25:55.885 --> 00:26:00.185

across the gym and you trip over it and smash your face into a dumbbell rack or something.

00:26:00.285 --> 00:26:02.585

That's a typical gym injury, right?

00:26:02.745 --> 00:26:06.685

Or some idiot's clowning around on the treadmill, you know, running backwards

00:26:06.685 --> 00:26:10.165

and sideways looking at a girl across the gym, falls off, you know,

00:26:10.385 --> 00:26:12.425

smashes their head on the wall or whatever, right?

00:26:12.585 --> 00:26:17.545

That is a typical gym injury, not someone doing a squat incorrectly and,

00:26:17.585 --> 00:26:19.105

you know, blowing out their knee, right?

00:26:19.345 --> 00:26:23.825

Way, way more common, like 80%. I don't have the stats right in front of me,

00:26:23.905 --> 00:26:25.245

but I have looked at the literature on this.

00:26:25.385 --> 00:26:30.005

And it's somewhere in 70, 80% of injuries are like just idiots doing stupid

00:26:30.005 --> 00:26:31.945

shit, you know, in the gym.

00:26:31.945 --> 00:26:40.325

And we have a lot of literature looking at resistance training volume,

00:26:40.325 --> 00:26:45.005

so basically how many hours per week you spend doing resistance training.

00:26:45.245 --> 00:26:49.285

Now, typically resistance training is measured in these studies as like lifting

00:26:49.285 --> 00:26:51.225

weights or using machines at the gym, right?

00:26:51.365 --> 00:26:55.465

But Pilates is essentially, it's in that category of thing, or it's not that

00:26:55.465 --> 00:26:59.485

exact same thing, but it's the same type of thing using bodyweight resistance

00:26:59.485 --> 00:27:03.325

and spring resistance, but it's still resistance training. if you do it right.

00:27:05.560 --> 00:27:13.680

And there is a very clear and very consistent inverse relationship between the

00:27:13.680 --> 00:27:18.680

number of hours you spend resistance training on a regular basis and your risk of injury, right?

00:27:18.780 --> 00:27:24.140

So the more you resistance train, the less injuries you get, right?

00:27:24.200 --> 00:27:27.500

And so these are studies looking at athletes, so, you know, soccer players,

00:27:27.700 --> 00:27:30.300

rugby players, dancers, you know, whatever it might be.

00:27:30.480 --> 00:27:33.940

Then we look at the dancers, rugby players, and soccer players who,

00:27:33.960 --> 00:27:36.680

you know, go to the gym half an hour a week, an hour a week,

00:27:36.780 --> 00:27:38.120

two hours a week, three hours a week.

00:27:38.200 --> 00:27:41.840

And guess what? The three hour a week people have the fewest injuries and the

00:27:41.840 --> 00:27:45.040

half an hour a week people have more injuries and the people who never go to

00:27:45.040 --> 00:27:46.080

the gym have the most injuries.

00:27:47.140 --> 00:27:51.360

And so, you know, there's a risk in anything. Like if you go for a walk,

00:27:51.420 --> 00:27:52.420

you might die of a heart attack.

00:27:52.760 --> 00:27:57.200

But if you never go for a walk, your chance of dying of a heart attack is way

00:27:57.200 --> 00:28:00.960

higher because your cardiovascular system is way weaker, right?

00:28:01.040 --> 00:28:05.940

And so, yes, if you go to the gym, there's a higher chance, like if you're squatting

00:28:05.940 --> 00:28:09.220

with a heavy barbell on your back, there's a higher chance you're going to hurt

00:28:09.220 --> 00:28:11.840

your back than if you're sitting on the sofa, right?

00:28:12.240 --> 00:28:17.560

But if you never squat, your lifetime chance of doing something in your back

00:28:17.560 --> 00:28:21.040

is way higher because your back is so much weaker.

00:28:21.240 --> 00:28:24.060

And if you'd step off a curb wrong or, you know,

00:28:24.380 --> 00:28:29.440

roll over in bed wrong, you can snap something because you're just made of chalk

00:28:29.440 --> 00:28:33.520

because you've never actually added any load to your system and stimulated that

00:28:33.520 --> 00:28:37.480

strengthening, that protective strengthening that you get from resistance training.

00:28:45.053 --> 00:28:51.493

Actually, you know, you and I have both been looking at this company.

00:28:51.673 --> 00:28:54.233

We're both kind of like called the Moves Method.

00:28:55.393 --> 00:29:00.573

And one of the things that they talk about is that, you know,

00:29:00.713 --> 00:29:06.213

you need to get strong out of alignment, right?

00:29:06.213 --> 00:29:15.673

Because if lunging with your knee in is dangerous, which it's not,

00:29:16.373 --> 00:29:20.193

but if lunging with your knee in was dangerous, well,

00:29:21.053 --> 00:29:25.593

are you truly going to guarantee that you go through the next 50,

00:29:25.693 --> 00:29:29.873

60 years of your life without ever once having your knee in?

00:29:29.933 --> 00:29:31.153

What about when you get up?

00:29:31.273 --> 00:29:34.653

I mean, dear listener, try this right now. I sit in a chair,

00:29:34.933 --> 00:29:38.953

get up out of a chair and rotate to one side at the same time.

00:29:39.053 --> 00:29:42.213

Like just imagine you're getting out from a table in a restaurant where you're

00:29:42.213 --> 00:29:45.793

in a corner or there's people either side of you on chairs and you're at dinner

00:29:45.793 --> 00:29:48.933

or you're on the bus and you have to get up and twist around somebody.

00:29:49.033 --> 00:29:51.613

It's like your knee fucking rotates when you do that.

00:29:52.939 --> 00:29:55.799

And you're going to Velgas, like it's a normal part of everyday movement,

00:29:55.919 --> 00:29:57.799

right? And so just say you're on the bus when you do that.

00:29:57.919 --> 00:30:01.299

And then as you're standing up, the bus jolts. Or just say you're at a restaurant

00:30:01.299 --> 00:30:04.579

and as you're doing that, someone else moves their chair and hits you in the side of the knee.

00:30:04.719 --> 00:30:07.599

Or just like, just say you're, you know, walking in the park and you change

00:30:07.599 --> 00:30:11.699

direction and a dog runs into you. Like shit happens in life, you know?

00:30:12.119 --> 00:30:17.239

And so if you've constantly avoided that position and never strengthened in

00:30:17.239 --> 00:30:18.579

that position, guess what?

00:30:18.899 --> 00:30:22.759

When shit happens, you've got no tolerance for it, right?

00:30:22.939 --> 00:30:27.659

But if you lunge every now and then with your knee going in a little bit,

00:30:27.779 --> 00:30:29.299

well, guess what? You get stronger in that position.

00:30:29.459 --> 00:30:32.799

You're more tolerant to load in that position because strength is specific,

00:30:33.159 --> 00:30:35.999

you know, specific to the joint angle, speed, range of motion,

00:30:36.099 --> 00:30:37.519

et cetera, that you move at.

00:30:37.759 --> 00:30:42.319

So yeah, it gets strong out of alignment. It's actually protective against injury.

00:30:42.479 --> 00:30:46.879

It's the opposite, you know? And that's why you're, you know,

00:30:47.279 --> 00:30:50.679

sweating and mumbling in your sleep, you know, and And, and,

00:30:50.779 --> 00:30:54.559

you know, going like, no, it's not alignment, you know,

00:30:55.379 --> 00:30:58.499

balanced body, you're wrong, um,

00:30:59.499 --> 00:31:06.619

is because like what the, what the message, that messaging is the exact opposite of what's true.

00:31:11.727 --> 00:31:24.447

I remember when I started to explore different kinds of movement and a program I was on said,

00:31:24.807 --> 00:31:28.727

I can't remember what they called it, I call it an inside squat.

00:31:29.687 --> 00:31:33.347

And you can try this, folks. You stand with your feet just a little wider than

00:31:33.347 --> 00:31:37.287

hip distance but not much and turn your toes out a little bit like duck-footed.

00:31:37.287 --> 00:31:40.647

And then as you squat put your knees together and

00:31:40.647 --> 00:31:43.767

squat as deep as you can and at the beginning it's kind

00:31:43.767 --> 00:31:46.487

of weird and awkward and hard and it's

00:31:46.487 --> 00:31:49.147

you're not as well set up to create force as you

00:31:49.147 --> 00:31:53.787

would in a normal squat but with a bit of practice I started to do barbell squats

00:31:53.787 --> 00:31:59.527

with my knees together and my feet apart asked to heal and once I started including

00:31:59.527 --> 00:32:04.027

movement like that with load my knees and I've got creaky knee I used to have

00:32:04.027 --> 00:32:08.067

creaky knees and sometimes they creak still my knees never felt better when I started to load.

00:32:08.882 --> 00:32:12.082

In that wrong squad when we've

00:32:12.082 --> 00:32:14.782

run the diploma there's a whole genre i'd call

00:32:14.782 --> 00:32:17.742

it a sub genre of kind of strongman like if

00:32:17.742 --> 00:32:20.982

you you know i'm i'm into strength and physiology and

00:32:20.982 --> 00:32:23.982

strength training i follow a whole bunch of people on youtube and instagram

00:32:23.982 --> 00:32:26.942

they're just into like weird and wacky you know strength training

00:32:26.942 --> 00:32:29.722

things and um there's this whole

00:32:29.722 --> 00:32:33.022

sub genre of like strongman competitors

00:32:33.022 --> 00:32:36.042

you know strongman people like they pick up like heavy rocks and

00:32:36.042 --> 00:32:39.962

you know throw things over poles and stuff like that that they're

00:32:39.962 --> 00:32:43.262

into doing like really weird lifts so they'll

00:32:43.262 --> 00:32:46.182

do something like a barbell on the ground and they'll

00:32:46.182 --> 00:32:50.462

pick it up off like a really heavy barbell with a fuck ton of weight on it and

00:32:50.462 --> 00:32:55.102

they'll put the barbell on one end and then they'll go sideways under put it

00:32:55.102 --> 00:32:58.802

on their shoulders sideways so they're laterally flexed like 90 degrees to their

00:32:58.802 --> 00:33:02.642

spine with this like 200 kilo barbell and then they'll get it a set and they'll

00:33:02.642 --> 00:33:04.682

stand up and do a squat and then they'll put it down again.

00:33:05.162 --> 00:33:10.702

And there are people that do like deadlifts with the bar behind their back or between their legs.

00:33:11.222 --> 00:33:15.702

Like, you know, there's this kind of weird, crazy shit that people do.

00:33:15.842 --> 00:33:20.042

And strongman, they pick up like massive fucking rocks that are really like

00:33:20.042 --> 00:33:25.862

odd, you know, asymmetrical shapes and you just cannot lift them in anything

00:33:25.862 --> 00:33:28.802

approaching neutral, in any joint.

00:33:28.942 --> 00:33:33.042

Then there's, you know, so there are so many, you know, sports that involve

00:33:33.042 --> 00:33:38.042

people just lifting extreme things, you know, in weird moments.

00:33:38.042 --> 00:33:42.462

And whenever they do that, and the argument is made by our education,

00:33:42.822 --> 00:33:46.682

Pilates education providers that that doesn't apply to your clients,

00:33:46.882 --> 00:33:51.082

is the only difference between those people is Milo and the Bull, right?

00:33:51.102 --> 00:33:54.722

They've just done a little weight and added a little more weight and added a

00:33:54.722 --> 00:33:58.202

little more weight and then all of a sudden they're doing these funky things in crazy alignment.

00:33:58.402 --> 00:34:01.402

It's exactly the same thing as any other kind of strength training.

00:34:02.392 --> 00:34:07.272

Well, you know. Backrowing, like backrowing. Like just think about some Pilates movements.

00:34:07.412 --> 00:34:12.132

Backrowing is a fucked up movement pattern, right? Like internally rotated and

00:34:12.132 --> 00:34:15.172

flexed at the spine and rotating. Why is that okay?

00:34:15.572 --> 00:34:22.152

Like why is that taught and okay when pushups with your elbows in a different position is not okay?

00:34:22.332 --> 00:34:29.752

Like it's, and you just add load over time, all tissues will get stronger in

00:34:29.752 --> 00:34:32.192

that movement. Well, it's, you know, what you said there about,

00:34:32.332 --> 00:34:36.152

like, and I've heard that argument too, it's like, are those strong men, you know, competitors?

00:34:36.732 --> 00:34:39.472

They're, you know, that's different. It's, you know, it doesn't apply to,

00:34:39.472 --> 00:34:41.752

like, you know, Mrs. Jones has got arthritic news. It's like,

00:34:42.092 --> 00:34:44.412

well, is their physiology different?

00:34:44.592 --> 00:34:50.232

I mean, do their cells respond differently to load? No, they've got human physiology, right?

00:34:50.352 --> 00:34:55.192

You know, I mean, if you cut them, they bleed, you know, like, they're humans.

00:34:55.892 --> 00:34:59.612

And so how did they get that strong? Well, they weren't always that strong.

00:34:59.612 --> 00:35:01.692

If you think about that person when they were born –.

00:35:02.608 --> 00:35:05.588

You know, zero days old, they couldn't do those things.

00:35:06.008 --> 00:35:09.948

So how is it that they're now able to do those things? Well, what do you think?

00:35:10.328 --> 00:35:14.328

They trained, you know, imagine little Johnny, you know, goes to the gym for

00:35:14.328 --> 00:35:17.508

the first time when he's 14, you know, does some biceps curls,

00:35:18.048 --> 00:35:20.548

you know, does that for a few years.

00:35:20.668 --> 00:35:24.088

One day, see some strongman competition, see someone picking up a rock,

00:35:24.228 --> 00:35:27.308

goes, oh, I think I'll give that a go, tries it, you know, then he goes down

00:35:27.308 --> 00:35:30.468

the rabbit hole, 20 years later, he's picking up fucking weird shit,

00:35:30.648 --> 00:35:33.608

you know, and weird angles on YouTube and people are going, oh,

00:35:33.688 --> 00:35:35.368

wow, that's amazing, but that doesn't apply to me.

00:35:35.508 --> 00:35:42.088

It's like, no, you just build up a tolerance to load by progressively adding load, right?

00:35:42.228 --> 00:35:46.688

And the difference between your client and the strongman competitors is your

00:35:46.688 --> 00:35:49.388

clients have not been exposed to enough load.

00:35:49.528 --> 00:35:53.548

That's why they're so fucking weak, right? If they can't bear to have their

00:35:53.548 --> 00:35:56.468

knee going two inches in a lunge, a bodyweight lunge, it's like,

00:35:56.588 --> 00:36:01.088

well, that's too little for too long.

00:36:02.108 --> 00:36:03.228

That's the problem there.

00:36:05.399 --> 00:36:09.099

And, and if you haven't looked up train with Joan and you're listening to us

00:36:09.099 --> 00:36:10.279

thinking, oh, it's too late.

00:36:10.459 --> 00:36:13.019

If you're, if you're not already strong by the time you're 40,

00:36:13.259 --> 00:36:15.679

it's too late. That's horse shit, right?

00:36:16.479 --> 00:36:20.779

Train with Joan. What is she? 75? 80? She went from one of the second half of

00:36:20.779 --> 00:36:23.479

her seventies now. I think she started training when she was 70.

00:36:23.659 --> 00:36:28.399

She was like just this completely sedentary, substantially overweight,

00:36:28.679 --> 00:36:30.659

70 year old who'd never exercised in her life.

00:36:30.799 --> 00:36:34.519

And for some reason she just decided to get fit. And now she's a fucking machine, you know?

00:36:35.399 --> 00:36:39.839

Yeah, it's so great. Yeah, yeah. And, you know, that's one of the ones,

00:36:39.979 --> 00:36:44.719

I've worked with lots of clients over 60 who had not exercised or if they had,

00:36:44.799 --> 00:36:47.759

it was before they were 20 and they came for whatever reason.

00:36:47.759 --> 00:36:50.859

And I've never seen anyone go through quite that transformation.

00:36:50.859 --> 00:36:54.599

But, you know, I will cry as soon as we start talking about working with older

00:36:54.599 --> 00:37:00.039

adults, because it's so transformational for them to feel strong and capable

00:37:00.039 --> 00:37:02.939

more so than sometimes they ever have in their life,

00:37:03.139 --> 00:37:05.859

simply by applying graded,

00:37:06.459 --> 00:37:12.179

consistent load and being patient, you know, and not giving them stories about

00:37:12.179 --> 00:37:15.999

their frailty or their inability to do things.

00:37:15.999 --> 00:37:20.899

And there's nothing special about that process. It's just special because it's

00:37:20.899 --> 00:37:26.379

extra transformational when people have lived a life without movement.

00:37:26.579 --> 00:37:29.179

And the one that really, and this is circling back to what makes me angry,

00:37:29.339 --> 00:37:32.659

is when working with clients who've been told to avoid movements because they're

00:37:32.659 --> 00:37:36.579

dangerous and so therefore they reduce their movement and their exposure to

00:37:36.579 --> 00:37:40.059

load and end up afraid to move.

00:37:40.199 --> 00:37:44.059

And the paradox is that actually makes them unsafe. Like as you explained so

00:37:44.059 --> 00:37:47.679

clearly before, If you have avoided movement because you're worried about it,

00:37:47.779 --> 00:37:49.399

you actually are more vulnerable.

00:37:49.959 --> 00:37:54.939

And our opportunity is to help people not be vulnerable, to actually make them

00:37:54.939 --> 00:37:59.499

stronger and more confident to move more freely and better.

00:38:00.835 --> 00:38:04.355

If we tell people that movements are dangerous and that load is dangerous and

00:38:04.355 --> 00:38:08.575

end range of motion is dangerous, and we don't do the work to know how to manage

00:38:08.575 --> 00:38:12.335

load incrementally and motivate people to come back, well,

00:38:12.755 --> 00:38:16.775

that's a negative, we're putting negative shit into those people's lives and

00:38:16.775 --> 00:38:20.535

making their lives measurably worse through, if nothing else,

00:38:20.615 --> 00:38:24.155

just through fear, let alone their physiological effect of not moving.

00:38:24.875 --> 00:38:27.695

Yeah. and the the you know

00:38:27.695 --> 00:38:30.655

that just going back to what you said about older adults there is

00:38:30.655 --> 00:38:33.695

we have a lot of literature on strength training

00:38:33.695 --> 00:38:41.195

uh for with older adults and we older adults are able to put on muscle and strength

00:38:41.195 --> 00:38:47.195

um with resistance training um they they tend to put on we're talking about

00:38:47.195 --> 00:38:53.315

people over 65 typically is what they refer to as older adults uh they tend to have a.

00:38:54.315 --> 00:38:57.435

Attenuated response to like hypertrophy training

00:38:57.435 --> 00:39:00.555

so in other words they put on less muscle for the

00:39:00.555 --> 00:39:03.495

same amount of training as a younger adult

00:39:03.495 --> 00:39:08.355

would but you just do a little bit more training and you can get the same amount

00:39:08.355 --> 00:39:13.595

of muscle you know so there's something like a 25 percent attenuation in the

00:39:13.595 --> 00:39:17.715

in the hypertrophy response so basically if the 20 year old and the 65 year

00:39:17.715 --> 00:39:22.075

old do the same number of sets of the same exercise at the same intensity,

00:39:22.415 --> 00:39:27.735

you know, the 20-year-old will probably have 25% more muscle, right?

00:39:27.895 --> 00:39:34.175

But if the older adult just does like a couple of extra sets, bam, equal, you know?

00:39:34.355 --> 00:39:36.775

And the older adults got plenty of time anyway, because they're retired.

00:39:36.995 --> 00:39:37.775

What else are they going to do?

00:39:38.975 --> 00:39:42.335

Good time for more training. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. All right.

00:39:43.135 --> 00:39:48.575

So don't fear the valgus. Don't fear the spinal flexion. Don't fear the internal rotation.

00:39:49.175 --> 00:39:52.035

Don't fear the end range. Don't fear your knee going in in a lunge.

00:39:52.215 --> 00:39:55.995

And don't listen to bullshit from outdated educators who haven't changed their

00:39:55.995 --> 00:39:59.495

curriculum since the late, early 1990s.

00:40:00.934 --> 00:40:06.014

And, and if any, and, and the other, the thing there that I learned and you

00:40:06.014 --> 00:40:09.594

learned and we weren't taught is how to manage load over time.

00:40:09.814 --> 00:40:12.494

Like thinking, we teach, we call it teaching in layers. Like,

00:40:13.034 --> 00:40:14.594

and you think you teach in layers.

00:40:14.714 --> 00:40:17.934

Well, do you, when are your layers organized around adding load?

00:40:18.294 --> 00:40:22.014

Because that's what, that was the transformation for me in my teaching and my

00:40:22.014 --> 00:40:27.534

business and our education system is organizing what you add based on load and

00:40:27.534 --> 00:40:29.354

people's tolerance within the class.

00:40:29.494 --> 00:40:32.554

Like that's the skill. And that's why we built a

00:40:32.554 --> 00:40:39.254

whole system of Pilates designed to build people's capacity and make them stronger

00:40:39.254 --> 00:40:44.114

and more mobile so that they become more resistant to injury and they don't

00:40:44.114 --> 00:40:48.374

have to worry about their knee going in because they're strong enough to- And

00:40:48.374 --> 00:40:49.694

then they can move any way they want.

00:40:50.254 --> 00:40:52.934

And then you can go off and do neutral all you like, but you could do anything

00:40:52.934 --> 00:40:55.874

you want on either side of it. And they can even get up out of a chair in a

00:40:55.874 --> 00:40:57.754

restaurant without damaging their knee.

00:40:58.794 --> 00:41:00.954

On one leg. All right. Good talk.