Welcome to Mindset, Mood and Movement, a systemic approach to human behavior, performance, and well being. Our psychological, emotional, and physical health are all connected, and my guests and I endeavor to share knowledge, strategies, and tools for you to enrich your life and work. Hello and welcome. I'm joined today by my guest Mark Wingfield, and we're going to be coming some really interesting, but some quite sensitive areas around how do we handle adversity, trauma, tragedy, and threats. And using, what Mark uses is a psychosensory approach called the Havening Technique, which we're going to go into and learn more. A little, care note. We are going to be talking about some sensitive issues around trauma. so please be aware there is some sensitive content. It doesn't go too deep. And, Mark explains things in a way that's very professional and very safe. but hopes to share that. There are ways to overcome difficulties and traumas and some of the bad things that may happen. So I want you to be aware of that. Now, Mark is, as we said, a havening trainer and he's a speaker. He also works with adrenal stress, programs, and really helped people come to their full potential. So I'm really excited to have Mark. share with us today the processes that he works with. And I don't know much about the havening technique myself. So I'm going to sit back a little more on this one and become a learner too, to learn about how this approach might help all of those areas that we've spoken about. Adversity, trauma, tragedy, threats, and perhaps how we can apply that for ourself and how you might learn more to take forward. Welcome Mark. It's good to have you.

Thank you Sal, lovely to be here.

Mark, I'm intrigued because you've already shared to me this lovely approach that you do. It's fascinating. I'd like to go a little deeper, like how did you get to this point in your life so you became a practitioner of havening and what is that?

Well, that's that's a really good question and I'll give you a potted history because it time to unpack that but was, I didn't come to Havening by the normal route. Within the Havening community we have people who are dyed in the wool psychotherapists, very experienced, very capable, Come from all sorts of different backgrounds, using all sorts of different modalities. We have neuroscientists. We have psychologists. We really very experienced people. And then there's me. And I, I came to Havening because I'm curious. And you have to be curious to, to look at Havening. That's all, all you have to ask for because Havening will, will do the But I come from a background where a very experienced trainer. And my business had evolved primarily providing conflict management, I had a particular niche in helping people with aggression and violence, although all that I did. And somebody said to me one day, Oh, ought to get into havening, Sorry? I've been to havering. What on earth is havening? They said, no, no, you don't understand. It's about putting people in a safe haven. I said, well, okay. So how does that apply to me? And I'd mentioned to this on my courses, where the aggression and violence courses, the way that we work is quite intimidating at times, it's designed to be scary. So that people experientially learn how to deal with nasty And be successful. But because it's scary, sometimes, using the methodology we use, some people can't access it. Because they're like, Crikey, what's he going to say to me? What's he going to do? And they've had prior trauma, and they're just not in a place to even be in the same room to see that sort of stuff happen. So, curious, and I thought, well, I'll talk to the guy that's running the training And I'll talk to some people that I know have been involved in And so I first spoke to a lady called Annie. And the reason I did that was because I saw a picture of Annie as a demonstration volunteer in a Havening session. I thought, that's Annie! What's she doing there? So I phoned her up and said, what's this Havening about? She said, Oh, it's brilliant! Absolutely brilliant! tell me, tell me all. Anyway, so she told me more about it, how she got immediate sounds interesting. So I phoned up the guy afterwards who was running the training. And he said, look, be as sceptical as you like. He said, I was. Because it just sounds far too good to be You know, you rub your arms, or stroke your face, or your palms, and it all goes away. He said, there's a lot more to it than that, of course, but it's backed by neuroscience. It was developed by a neuroscientist who became a In fact, he's just retired after 40 years as And he said, you know, if you think it can help you, and I was thinking about a one to one treatment for those people that couldn't access the scary training. He said, if you're interested, you know, come along to the training and make of it what you will. So I came along, fairly sceptical, but intrigued. The words of Annie ringing in my ears, there's something to this, clearly, but what it I sat down, and one of the first things we did was we had a demonstration. And I saw a lady called Patty, who I'm still in contact with she had had an awful situation where, briefly put, her mum had died very on the operating and Patty had said to her mum that morning, Look mum, stop worrying about the operation, you're going to be fine, I'll see you later. never saw her mother again. So she was traumatised by her last words, her last argument with her mum, you know, the memory of that, and I saw her over a period of, I think, it was about half an hour, something like that, maybe 40 minutes maximum, and we saw this transformation in Patty, where she explained what the problem was initially, tears, every time she thought of her mum, over the years, there were always And the trainer took her through, very and I was just watching he's obviously got a focus here, and there were more tears, briefly, but then there was this change, and she seemed a lot calmer, and anyway, was called to a close, the and Patty turned to the audience, and And there were tears streaming down her face. I thought, oh, it still crying. And she could see the incredulity audience's faces. no, no, no, no, these are tears of joy. She said, I can't believe I'm thinking about my mum, and I'm not really, really upset. I'm so unburdened. I can't remember exactly the word she used, but it was kind of, oh, dropped the shackles. And I thought, ooh, okay, so we then had a cup of coffee and I went over to Patti and I said, but this is just amazing. So I was hooked and, so we did the two days training and by the end of it, I was a little bit competent in delivering And that started, that was 2015, no 2014 and I, I certified in science so that's, that was my bizarre way into Havening, and I didn't really use it for, in a great way. In a great way, in a, in very regularly I should say. I used it in a great way, in lots of ways, lots of relief for people. But anyway, it took me a while to get into it, and because I was very busy doing my other stuff. And then lockdown And all my business died Because practically all of it was face to Now the lovely thing about Haveney is you can do it online as well. So I've helped North America, Asia, all over the world. Just through things like Zoom, or Skype, or whatever it happens And I thought, well, maybe I can, pick up the crumbs of the business here, and, least earn some money, because I had no money coming in whatsoever. And, anyway, so that reset me. And I'd been asked to be a Havening trainer before. I'd helped out on the very first French training in 2015. I speak fluent German, I'd helped the first German online training in 2021. And I thought, yeah, timing's right now. So, anyway, so I've been doing it for a couple of years now as a, as a trainer, adding havening to existing doing in the past. And so that's a bit convoluted how I got here, but that's the, that's the story. that's, how I got to be involved in havening on a regular basis. And it's my primary focus

Thank you. That's really, really interesting. I'm intrigued by your sort of skepticism as well, because certain practices there's many practices in the world for all sorts of, needs modalities and, and yes, sometimes things can sound too good to be true. I had an old friend that used to say like, you know, always, if you're going to experience something in life, try to experience it, suspend judgment you've experienced it and then you'll know. And I, and I really I've always taken that sort of premise forward and it's intriguing. Well, I'll make a point. trauma is something I've worked with both from my psychotherapeutic origins. it's in my, with friends and people I know. So I understand that trauma is, there's layers of trauma and levels of it, but it's, it's tough and it's, and it's difficult. So if, if, um, if you're listening and this is a little triggering for you, obviously just be mindful to be okay with this and choose whether this is right. But Mark and I will obviously aim to hold the space safely. Um, yeah. And I'm really interested because you mentioned to me about conflict management and, And the scary stuff which when I think about something like havening and, healing and that loveliness, that healing a person, that's wonderful, isn't it? But when you mention about violence and, conflict management, that's the scary stuff. And it piqued my interest because I did a course a while back with a company called Pilgrims with their own setup in a village where we went through hostage training. And it was for overseas people like journalists and foreign officials. I was fortunate enough to join them for various reasons. And it was I think three days of training where we were put through literally Hostile ambushes, explosions really intimidating stuff. And I understand that some of the work you've done, what intrigues me is how an individual like you has got that field, like, you know, that's a scary place. That almost warfare style, violent place. And yet now you're blending into the haven in the healing space. How do you manage that? how have you, not manage, I would say, perhaps I'm intrigued about how do you bring the skills and understanding from both of those spaces? to, to work and to help people.

That's a really good question, I think that's my opening into Haven. That's how I started empathise and understand about people who had been traumatised. I consider myself very lucky in that I don't believe, That I've had any really severe trauma But I know many, many people that have. And sometimes they wouldn't class it as trauma, it's just, well, that's how I grew up. Well, quite traumatic. Environments can We talk about the landscape of the brain within Havening, that has a huge impact on whether somebody will be traumatised, and whether somebody else will not be, even though two people. Observe or experience exactly the same thing, but I, I saw people in my work dealing with aggression and violence who not in a we, we worked and still work frontline staff who've assaulted, whether that's verbal or physical. And in fact, my very first. Commercial application of Havening I happened to know the managing director of a railway And he said, Oh, I wonder if you can help this sexually in the line of her serving food and drink on a train. I won't get into the detail of what happened, it happened just before she was going on holiday. And she left the train, having endured that experience, and she wasn't going back. I'm done. I can't go back on that train. I'll be in the same place, same day, every day, if I go back. And she was going off for two weeks holiday, and the company contacted me and said, Look, this lady's had this awful experience. Can you help her? I said, I don't know. the circumstances. I'm very happy to talk to the lady if she'll allow me to. And we had an initial telephone call. And I explained my background, what I intended And whether she wanted to the phone, or on Zoom, Or whether she'd like me me that brief that they were happy to fund it. So, she said no, I'd rather do it in person. So, I said okay. So I went up to Hull, where she was based. And, got a private office, and she'd come in, especially on a holiday, know, she seemed fine on the outside, and then we started talking, and I saw the police report, and, not very nice lovely thing about Haven is you don't have to talk about it. So, I said, tell me as much as you feel comfortable with. She said, well I don't really want All the details in the police report. So I said, okay, let me just read the police read the police report. I thought, I've got enough said about Looking at How I was going to help her explained the methodology got a permission. In fact, I asked for permission. I said This is a psychosensory approach it involves touch. Now, I fully understand if you don't want me coming anywhere near you, particularly based on what you've just been through. Strangely, she actually allowed me to, but the touch is only on the shoulders, the arms, the face, So it's not intrusive, but you do need to seek And, so I, she allowed me to apply it to the arms and shoulders. And, within 40 minutes, The emotional stress And looking at me kind of, what, What have you done? Has it really gone? And, I said, yeah, it's a permanent process. It's a biological change that we've affected here. You and me. And she was grinning from ear to Well, I love my job. That means I can go back to my job. That's fantastic. So, That was brilliant in the first place, but I looked on my watch, I thought, well, this only took I've come all the way from to Hull, and the company's paid me to do this, a bit more time yet, and I said this to her, I said, look, you know, the company's very kindly funded is there anything else we can help you said, Oh, know. What, what, what do you mean? I said, well, for example, this works really well on phobias. Cause phobias are I said, Oh, well, I've got a couple of Okay. I'm a bit embarrassed. a clown okay. Oh, and an ant phobia. Right. Not combined. Didn't happen at the same time. No, no, no. They're quite separate. Important to check. Anyway. So, We worked on the clown phobia and cleared that very quickly because it was based on some scary films that she'd seen as a child. And that was Event Havening, just like incident on the train. If it's event based, one off, not associated with other things, it's relatively easy and quick to Permanently. And then the Ant Phobia is when she was a little girl, she was in the woods, and she was playing with some friends, laid her head... got covered to lie on an that started it So again, that was cleared really quickly, and so within a short space of time very happy and she said, oh, are we done then? Say well, I'm very happy to work with you any further. Is there anything you'd like to work on in terms of development? Because Haveny is brilliant for trauma and nasty stuff, but it's also wonderful to Build resilience to build capability and there's a whole other side to Havenick which isn't talked about that much but is just as very useful. In fact, half the people I train as practitioners from the coaching world rather than the trauma Anyway, so I did a few bits and pieces but not really that much after that. She was very happy, she kind of skipped out of the office and The health and safety manager looking shocked, She's just given me a hug. She never gives What have you been doing? So I said, well, all with her permission, I did this, blah, blah, blah. he said, I've never seen her like So I said, well, you know, that's kind of what happens. And he sat down and said, we need to talk. can never let this happen ever again to our staff, and that's when we sat down and talked about training all of and that's what we so that their assaults dropped from a very high unacceptable level to three assaults, these are verbal assaults, in 180, 000 journeys. And he's the health and safety guy, he measured it meticulously. Also encouraged people to report things they might just think minor, you know, you... expletives here, but just you, whatever, that would be shouted across the gate line carriage, that sort of stuff, that would be recorded as a verbal assault. three and And, so that was wonderful. And the, the HR lady what's, been to come back to work. saying she didn't want to And we were pleased. Delighted, but we're kind of, we didn't expect it to be this So, that's what Havening can do. and it was a lovely blend, it kind of mirrors going back to what I was saying earlier about how you can help somebody nasty, violent in this instance situation and just help them grow, lose stuff that's happened in the past and move on. In fact, the book that started this all, which was written by a guy called Dr. Ron is called When the Past is Always Present. And it's all about causes of traumatisation, and you learn how traumatisation a trauma therapist, practitioner. And then how you, and, and the encoding process that's with you for life to protect you. And then you learn how, the biology of that, and how with Havening, reverse the encoding process. Now, if it's Event Havening, it's pretty straightforward. If it's far more complicated, and you talked about layers earlier, and I often refer to it as layers of an onion, you take away something. got some relief. Ooh, something underpinning that. Ooh, okay, let's get rid of that one. And, you know, if it's very complex, like complex PTSD, for then it'll take a lot longer, but it's still remarkably quick most approaches. So, yeah,

Not at all. That's intriguing. Absolutely intriguing. And I'm wondering if you could go just a little into the science because I, I a certain amount. I don't know where we were, what, how we're going to scale it but you know, how neural states as in fight, flight, flow, freeze, or shut down the different nervous system states. Um, as you know, I mentioned I'm a breathwork, practitioner teacher. a, great mediator of emotional regulation for a lot of people. And it's something I, I really you know, teach with my coaching clients and people are just like, even the basics, just get the basics right. But I'd love you to say a little more about the kind of the science of, of, of how that might happen. So you mentioned touch, you mentioned the You might touch the sort of shoulder area of a person and the outer arm area and perhaps the palms. now I know a lot about the hands. There's, there's more, neural stimulation, i. e. there's more nerves in your hands, and lips and tongue than anywhere else in the body. So it's called the word, homoculus, but it's part of the brain. It's all this coding. So hands are very powerful. we have a lot of sense in our hands, but certainly as a, uh, as an experiencer or as practitioner, so tell me, can you say a little more about how, if, if I was, if I was like, oh, I've got this problem, and I hear you can help with that, how would a contact point of the shoulder or a contact point of the arm, how does, what's the science that you have around that? How does that actually work?

Okay, probably useful to take a step backwards actually before we get to that talk about how, just so that a listener can understand there is proper science because when we are traumatized in the first there are things called gamma waves that are present all the time as brain waves, there are lots of different types of brain but gamma wave will be the predominant Brain Wave Type at Time of a very, very fast, high frequency Up to 100 waves per second. something awful's happened. I need all my resources to do something about And your brain's going into multi, just working very, very hard to try and When you that Brainwave operating. have not only glutamate critical, part of the equation but because there is this gamma wave operating at per second, very, I'll keep this very it causes an oscillation at that speed calcium, and I won't go through all the detail here because we don't have like to show pictures and so on when we're doing it as well. But essentially, at that very high oscillation, there's a number of consequences with And, very simply and crudely put, you have receptors, AMPA receptors now go onto the postsynaptic surface of the neuron. within the amygdala, the emotional center of the brain. And these are fixed for life with a kind of biological superglue. Ready to protect you in the future. So whatever got you out of that scrape, whatever you needed to do to get out of it, and be safe, it's now there as pre programmed. This is what you do as your if something like this ever happens again. So any triggers that were there at the time of traumatization, Sounds, sights, smells, touch, all these different things, maybe even colours, shapes. bit like a phobia, you see a little shape running across the floor, you think, Oh, a spider, or whatever it might be, that, that terrifies you. You automatically go, shift. You don't think about it Your, amygdala is working for you, just slightly faster than the cognitive function. I'm making you driving that so that, that's, that's traumatization. What happens the touch that you is that when you touch in a certain way, at certain points on the you generate something called a delta So we talked about gamma waves before, with this very high frequency, up to 100 cycles The delta wave is slower. It's very soothing, it's pop. 0. 4 to up to 5 5 cycles per second, not the 100. Very calming, people I'm sure will relate to delta waves that you sleep. It's not when you were dreaming, deep sleep where basically re sorting the mental filing cabinets. We're replenishing, we're recuperating from the day, and we're getting ready for the And interestingly, delta waves were the predominant brain wave when we were children. When we're learning, soaking up all this stuff that's And that dropped dramatically after our So, we are generating delta waves. You and I, right now, we're generating delta waves. But not many. It'd be very low level. However, suddenly if we start, you can probably hear on the microphone I'm stroking my arms, shoulders. We suddenly start. Generating Kind of artificially, but we're doing them. And it feels nice! If you had... If you were a little boy... And you fell over, Sal, many years ago... You might have had a kindly friend or relative... Pick you up, dust you down, go... There there, Sal, you'll Just stroke your arm and shoulder and you'll be you very delta waves... Which are immediately soothing... And... Again, crudely put, sending a signal that everything's okay. You're in this safe haven, name Havening came from. The same thing happens, what do we do when we rub our We feel a soothing, calming feeling. That's the delta And you're absolutely right, loads and loads of receptors there are some skin type C receptors that have been found only very recently. And that's helped pinpoint the research areas to go to. Another area is the cheeks of the face. I'm now stroking the cheeks of my face. You can go under the eyes, you can do the forehead. And those three areas are just, we've known for millennia that they are soothing areas. So, I'm not going to do it because I've got my headphones on, but I often demonstrate by going, Oh my goodness, and stroking my face. And that's what people do when they're really stressed. Ooh, it's a self soother. When we, when we rub our chin like this, you know, we're considering things or maybe not too sure about this. It's a self soother. There's a reason why we do it. It's a natural So not only do you have this nice soothing feeling, but the touch that's, that you're doing is changing the whole So before I talked about, glutamate appearing, well, glutamate's still there, and calcium, that's still there. But because you've got this much other neurotransmitters, and people will recognize words like serotonin they're just some of people recognize, now come to the equation, and again, very crudely that combination of, that cocktail of chemicals, cause a different chain And this time instead of a super glue being applied to receptors that say, Ooh, Ooh, this happened before you need to do this. There's kind of a biological super glue remover. That's takes away glue that held those receptors together so the receptors get recycled. And you lose the. What could be the way you think about it. The way your body reacts, so autonomically, so you're, you're breathing, you're blushing, a stammer of some kind, maybe, And any other somatosensory feelings, so pains, aches, posture, might be linked you feel about something or when something occurs. And, and the emotional side. So you, you have different outcomes, which are much more pleasant, and much more natural. Rather than being, that kind So, that, that's why the touch is so important. And I've done, I've done demonstrations before now. Where, I've had a, on Zoom, I remember it vividly. I did a demonstration for And there was must have been about six ladies in this group. And I said, by the way, we're all going to get a go to try this out and feel how soothing it is. And just work on a minor worry or anxiety, nothing, nothing majorly traumatic, And you must do the Havening Touch. Otherwise it will not work. Okay, great. We did the exercise and four out of the six said, Oh, it's brilliant. Fantastic, that was really good. Terms didn't make any difference to me. And I was watching them. And I said, well, I did say that you need to apply Havening Touch all the time. You two ladies didn't. And as a result, it will not work. You can talk about it until the cows come home. Unless you actually apply, it won't work. So, I did a demonstration earlier this week. We think about 26 people in all of them Got relief from whatever is they brought and they didn't have to tell me what it was. I just said you must follow, please, when I ask you to, just the touch and follow what I do distractions and so on. And, you know, let's see where you are. So I asked them for what we call a subjective unit of distress before. So you think about something distressing right now. And then after we've done this, we only did it for about five What's your subjective unit of distress now? Put it in the chat. And we'll compare it. I'm just looking around on my desk because I did have a piece of paper with all the numbers on, but anyway. They all went down. Some went down from an 8 to a 6, some went from a 0, some went from a 5 to a 4, but they all went down. Some things are far more And, but it's just a lovely thing to be able to do. And these people now know what we call self havening. So you can... Immediately downregulate if you're worried about something, whatever it might be, because we're working on the amygdala, the emotional center of the brain. Havening is beautiful in that you don't have to have been severely You can use it just to, bit worried about that exam that's gone out on that night out, that horrible boy, I don't just a bit concerned hope she doesn't drink too Whatever it might be, if you're worried about somebody who's been going through COVID it's not very well for some other so many things you can work on just to just one of my practitioners earlier this they are going quite a horrible situation personally that's just happened. And they said, we know we can do self having on her husband trained with me as well, we just want to do it with get rid be able to function at the moment know, we're downregulated a bit ourselves, really be able to cope. We're not coping so anyway, again, I'm rambling now, so. Hopefully that gives you a bit

Yeah, that's really helpful. And I'm just kind of processing in my mind about that encoding. I remember doing work and training around what's called timeline therapy years ago and various things obviously, I mentioned you, I'm a yoga teacher and what I see with a lot of, let's say, I mean, we use the word trauma. I'm just going to sort I mean we've, we've mentioned there's often two types of trauma to loosely put it. There's capital T trauma, which could be something like, you know, extreme violence attacks could be, you know, a horrible accident, something like that. And then small t trauma, which is maybe things like you didn't get seen so much by your parents when you were younger or at school, there was kind of, you were not really part of, the group. But what happens with small t trauma, it's more surreptitious, I see. It's a, A lot of people, myself included, didn't really see that big a deal, like, well, it wasn't that bad, but actually there's this layering and it's a bit because it's layered and it keeps happening that can affect us in a way as well. And I think if we go beyond the word into the experience that I've got something stuck, I'm stuck in a state and I'm triggered by a certain set of conditions. And I would like to be free of that. I think is if we take all the names and perhaps the descriptions, that's how I see a lot of this stuckness, you know, whether it be, you know, the really extreme trauma, a subtle trauma, or we just are over amped, you know, that amygdala is firing like crazy. Like it's so amplified, it's so reactive and One thing I've noticed is that a lot of people were saying, Oh, there's a lot of anxiety around right now. Well, there was a world changing pandemic, you know, literally destabilizing everything from health to money to businesses. and there's a knock on effect to that stuff. And sometimes it's post traumatic, trauma. Sometimes there's post traumatic growth, which is another interesting field, but either way we wonderful humans, we are adaption machines. We adapt to the environment. Whether that's, you know the environment of the house or the business or the world around us and that adaption may or may not be helpful. You know, sometimes it's a helpful, like a growth adaption and sometimes it's more of a stuck, like fear based adaption. And I'm really intrigued how

Based on what you've

yeah, what you said there about how that sort of encodes and like how we can sort of let's say, loosen that encoding and re retrain the system, so to speak, which really, really fascinating. actually know it. This is an area where I'm just more in the, I'm more in the listener space rather than, adding a lot of the content. I, I asked you before we started recording, I'd like to be a client. I'd like to experience this on a simple level and for our listener if you want to join us and that it's safe for you to do so. Please do. Remember, mind your own boundaries. If it isn't, and you just want to kind of listen in, please do, but I'm going to be a client, uh, and Mark, I'd love you to take me through a very simple, perhaps demonstration that I can experience. And if, if our listener wants to join us as well, they certainly can come along. Would that be okay?

course, yeah. And I'll just re emphasise what you just said making it safe. Please don't work on because this a minor worry or anxiety, just as I relative, that type so what I ask people to do, and I'll ask you to do this some as well, is just concentrate on how whatever it is that bothers you, and you don't have to tell me, how it makes you if it helps to close your eyes and and if there's any feeling in your body that expresses tightness in the throat or the chest just focus on that. anything maybe it's a recent event, if you focus what happened pull together the sights, sounds,

Yes, I've got a feeling and I, it's kind of for me physically, it's happening in the lower belly, lower abdomen. It's activity going on there. There's a little bit of. activity coming up to my throat area. I'm just going to describe the sensations. it's, it's, yeah, it's a tightening sense. There's a sort of a closing in sense. as I check back in with this.

thank you. And, on a score of naught to ten, where ten is really horrendous, zero you, where would you put your

It's about five. It's, it's kind of, it's, it's, it's not nice, but it's, it's not that bad. So obviously I've chosen something which isn't, as you've already, carefully guided saying nothing too, too deep, uh, but yeah, it's kind of, it's an uncomfortable situation and it's, yeah, my body's responding, to that

great, thanks for doing that. And, You choose whichever Havening Touch you, you prefer, whether it's the, the shoulders, the face, the hands, and just, just start applying that now if you would, and just clear your mind, and I want you to go to your favourite place in the world, Sal, where would that be?

Good question. I'll probably make you chuckle, but it's often the gym. That's quite an animated place. In terms of a relaxed place, I'd probably say by the beach early morning when it's really calm and still.

Okay, so where, where's the

It's near me, yeah, in Brighton.

Ah, okay, so it's a pebbly beach, because I've been on the rotten beach. I want you to imagine that you're on the beach now. And you're walking along and you hear the crunch of the pebbles, hear the waves you look out to the sea, tell me what you would see on a, on a typical morning, let's say it's a beautiful sunny you're only out there

yeah. It'd be early and, very few people around. Maybe tiny bit of cloud in the distance, a little animated cloud structure. a lot of space, a lot of plasterly light because it's early. and yeah it's the sound that gentle sound of the waves just gently lapping.

and what kind of smells are there?

slightly salt air Got bit of the organic matter of the fish perhaps, just a small amount. But Yeah, there's also a breeze.

Yeah? it's a light breeze on your capture that as you're walking along, and each step that you're taking, hearing those crunching pebbles, little bit getting rid of any tension that still throat in your belly. Just let light lovely thing to looking out to sea, safe, calmed your mind's eye. What can

Let's see my

Ah, okay, what kind of dog have you

got? two. I've got a Cocker Spaniel and a Pointer.

Lovely. What are their names?

Chester and Hugo.

and so what do Chester and Hugo

Running around. Scampering

probably quite a racket on the pebbles.

not too much. Sometimes,

And do they bark

yeah. Hmm.

having fun together. They play together nicely. So today they're playing together really nicely and, just feel the joy of seeing them playing being in that safe space, feeling really comfortable take a little just If you were to go back to thinking and whatever you gave me a five you still at the

No it seems like a three now. Two, three. Yeah, it's definitely a, an easing. Yeah, easing down.

And that was, that was a few minutes.

Hehehe,

clearly, if we were doing a one to one, be finding out a lot more information about you background and what we're looking to work on. But that's something that I do, which is very People come on to an intro as I do. I do these at It's free of charge. People come along and they just get to experience try things out before pre judging, saying this is just a load of rubbish. Well, you can call it a load of rubbish if it doesn't work for you, but it

Yeah

Because it's a natural biochemical change to our you work with a certified practitioner, They how to reverse the And they've gone a rigorous process of learning how to do that. So that, you they are in a good place to help you very

Yeah, yeah.

compared to anything that's some will be. Some will be hugely experienced psychotherapists, some will be, great coaches, others will be oddballs like me a, slightly

Thank you. So, yeah, the listener, if you've joined us with that I hope you're feeling good and that your own experience, uh, to share mine, it was intriguing. Just, I was using the outer arm touch, quite a gentle, I'm wearing a t shirt so I could feel my hands on the on the sort of skin of the upper arm. yeah, and there's a, there was a natural, For me, it felt very embodied. I'm lucky because I will perhaps I do, I am embodied and I have worked with people that literally have got no connection to their body because of things like a trauma event. So there are, you know, nuances to this, but my experience, which I think it's just important to share was, was, To bring the visual and the physical together. That was my takeaway. I really found that helpful and very useful to have a very visual experience. One that you guided nicely and an elegant way into a happy space and to have that feeling. as opposed to only using perhaps a visualization, which was, which of course is, you're already explaining to us that that's the havening process. And it kind of made me think what you mentioned about if I was a kid And you know, maybe fell over and someone picked you up. And it's funny, isn't it How we, we, seem to have lost contact with the humanity, the natural state, the things that is utterly imbued in us as human beings. because it's not okay to, you know, touch someone or, if you, if your family has a Victorian line, you might've got a pat on the head or something like They're there, you know, that natural, physical touch between human to human or from yourself. and the impact that your encoding system does, whether that's positive or negative, it's fascinating. So thank you for taking us through that that exercise. I feel very calm and very chilled now. It's lovely.

Good. I'd just like to throw in, if I may, just to add to that, that some people do struggle with visual And we've got other ways of doing it. So if people are thinking, well that didn't work can't do visual People tend to be in the minority But we just access it in different ways and we do different distractions. distractions are only one I've taken you through it again, that's Event Havening. That I've just done. listening, simply use self but there are so many, there are ten different types of train. event is just the easiest, we always start there,

yeah, lovely, really lovely. Well, we started off the show kind of saying about how we can touch on some of the difficult stuff that happens to people in life, you know, from anxiety to anguish to trauma. and these are big fields and I don't know, Mark, you've, you've been very sensitive. I too, we just want to echo the. Sometimes life is tough and bad things happen and that's really hard. So I guess the, the sentiment here is there are different practices. There are different processes where you can reach out to, you can find out about and Havening being one of them as a way to Heal, to grow, to, grow, beyond the pain. I heard a lovely phrase once and I'm afraid I can't say it's author because I can't remember, but they said, you know, really good growth work, whether it's therapeutic coaching, it doesn't matter, is to grow far bigger than the problem ever was. And love that. That's a really powerful statement. And so I I hope, dear listeners, that if you've got a challenge, if you've got some, some stuff that's stuck, that this gives you an opening to start reaching out, whichever way you want to reach out. This is one way. Uh, but of course we'll leave details for Mark's, contact about Havening and, and how you can learn more, uh, in the show notes, of course. So people can reach out to you directly and learn. Um, that'll be really interesting. Wow. So I've learned myself. I was quiet on this episode. Normally I'm quite a conversationist as part of our, of the podcast. Uh, but today I was kind of sitting back and just taking on board this, this process, which I don't know about. And I'm, and I'm really, you know, I'm very lucky. I've learned something today. I always love learning. So thank you, Mark, for sharing your experience, your history you've come to this process. Um, and it's wonderful. It sounds a really lovely process that can be applied at different levels of intensity for different practitioners, both self, Okay. and professional. So it's lovely to learn about that and I really thank you for your time. So dear listener, I trust, as always, that you've gleaned and taken something from that that's going to be helpful for you and take it further. Whatever you need, take it further and, and hope you heal and hope you have a flourishing rest of your day. Mark, thank you, dear listener, thank you. I'll speak to you on the next one.

Thanks, Sal.

Thank you so much for listening. If you enjoyed the episode, please subscribe and if a friend would benefit from hearing this, do send it on to them as well. If you would like to get in touch yourself, then you can go to my website, which is sal jeffries.com, spelled S A L J E F E R I E s sal jeffries.com. Hit the get in touch link and there you can send me a direct message. If you'd like to go one step further and learn whether coaching could help you overcome a challenge or a block in your life, then do reach out and I offer a call where we can discuss how this may be able to help you. Until the next time, take care.