The first lecture this morning was on jury selection, and here to talk to us about it is Laura Hope. Thank you so much for being here.

Thank you for having me. Good morning.

Can you tell us about yourself, where you work and what brought you to this line of work?

Sure. I am an assistant state attorney for the Fifth Circuit. In other words, I'm a prosecutor. And I, I came to the job because while I was in law school, I was in mock trial, which means I tried cases that were fake and I loved it, and I loved the courtroom, so I got a job and here I am a few years later.

Your talk was about jury selection, which is really, really important. And you were talking about different tips and tricks as far as doing it. So I guess overall, what do you look for in a jury?

Sure. What I look for in a jury is for them to be impartial. Depending on my case, can they set aside their biases and render a verdict just based on the evidence? So, for example, if I have, you know, an animal cruelty case, right? And uh, particularly I have a person who's very sensitive to animal abuse, I may not want that person on the jury because they wouldn't be ideal for it. They might be partial to me, and that's not fair. You know, likewise, if you've got a person that doesn't care much about animal abuse that they don't think that should be regulated by law, I do not want that person on the jury because they wouldn't, they might have a problem following the law.

I took an animal law class and one of the things that they were talking about is that sometimes jurors that are very pro animal welfare may not be the ones that are great for animal welfare, not only because they may be biased against the the person, but if you have somebody like a hoarder or somebody that had good intentions but did something really bad, then that person may potentially identify with them and then, you know, backfire.

Yeah. Right. No, I, I mean, that's true. It's such, it's so complex because you truly have to listen to what they're saying and you're almost gonna have to take a guess. Is this person going to be good for my jury panel? Are they gonna be able to just look at the facts and, and render a verdict? It's, it's kind of, it's kind of a guessing game that you practice at to get better.

And you talked about bias and a lot of people say, well, I'm not biased, but we are all biased. I mean, yeah, like, that's the reality of it. But it's a matter of kind of like what, where your biases lie, right?

Yeah. It's a matter of, like you said, we all have biases, but it's a matter of can you set it aside? Right. Some are, some of our biases are so deep within us that we just can't. You know, particularly in domestic abuse cases, if you were a victim of domestic abuse for years, for example, as much as you wanna try to be impartial, you really may not be able to because as you're listening to these facts, you're identifying, you know, and so no, you would strike that person.

Yeah. So going towards the expert witness side of it, how they conduct themselves can have an impact on the jurors, is that right?

Oh, absolutely. Um, like I said in there, when, when I'm talking to an expert, we're, we're kind of putting on a show for the jury and not in a show, a as as far as like somewhat entertainment, but a show as we are trying to condense hours of preparation, complicated material. And we're trying to condense that in an hour, maybe an hour and a half presentation. And not only that, we're trying to engage the jury and we're trying to make it as simple as possible. So, you know, a couple of tips for expert witnesses is if, if, for example, you've got a canned answer that you like, what is forensic pathology, for example, when you're giving that answer, I would say be mindful, slow down. Emphasize in places that you might want to emphasize, because I've seen it before in court where they just, they just say their entire answer because they've memorized it and they move on. So remember that you are speaking to a jury and you're trying to engage with everything that you're saying. Um, so that would be one of my tips. Watch for canned answers. Another one would be, as you are giving your testimony, look at their faces. How engaged are they? Are they interested? Are you losing them? Are they, do they show confusion? Do we have to go back and explain that? Another tip that I did in there is, um, you know, speak to me as the prosecutor in the same tone, same manner as you would speak to the defense attorney. 'cause at the end of the day, you know what you know. The defense attorney like me, they're trying to learn this particular area of law in the few hours that we had to prepare, but you know, the ins and out. So when they're asking you a question and that question is wrong. Answer it with facts and answer it with education as opposed to, you know, showing that you didn't like the question, for example.

Yeah. I think that that, that plays a lot in gaining credibility and

Oh, yeah.

Like if the jury doesn't like you, they may not believe what you have to say.

Right.

Right.

Or if the jury thinks you're biased about something, they just may tune you out.

Yeah. And another thing that I have learned is, you know, as veterinarians we're taught all these big words and then you show up and then you wanna give all these big words.

Thank you.

And you sound almost like, like you're trying to show that you're smarter than everybody else. And realistically, you wanna make it like lay person, and it's okay to use a big word, but then explain it. And not explain it in like, well, let me tell you what this means because you're dumb. Right? Like, right. Let me explain what this means. You know, this is what we call it, but this is what it means.

Yes. You know, I, I think that when you're an expert witness, you're almost a teacher. Well, actually you are a teacher because if you take the role of I know everything, and I'm trying to tell you guys what is right, or you know how it's done, the jury's not gonna like you. They may not even believe you. What you want is you want to engage with them, and I always say that if you truly know your subject, you can simplify it. If you can't simplify the subject, you may not know it as well as you think you know it kind of thing.

Yeah. Yeah. That makes perfect sense. And it's like, I feel that a lot of veterinarians are afraid to get on the stand and then not know an answer. And it is okay to just say,

I don't know.

I don't know.

Yeah.

I don't know the answer to this question.

Yeah.

So, you know, it's like, don't, don't embellish, don't try to make stuff up because that's how you get in trouble.

Yep. And I always say, I always tell 'em, listen, you're just there to talk about what you know, what you've reviewed. You're not there to win the case for me. You're not there to argue for me. And, and that actually, you know, brings me to a point when you're an expert witness, know exactly what you reviewed. Have a list? You know, did you watch the body cameras? Um, did you read the incident report? Did you listen to the 911 phone call? what medical records did you review? Because what if you are not completely sure by, with details what you reviewed? What if the defense attorney has a, you know, a piece of evidence like, oh, so you didn't see this? You know, and even though that piece of evidence may not ultimately change your opinion, the jury may think it should.

Right? Yeah. They may think that you're not prepared, that you already had made your mind and it doesn't matter what else is there, that you, you've already made your decision. And that's one of the things, I mean, that's the other thing is when I'm going into a case, obviously I'm on the side of the animals, the animal welfare, but you cannot sound like you're being hateful, like for the other person. Everything is objective, right? Everything is about. This is why I am making my decision, not because I don't like this person as a human being, but because of the facts of this case.

Absolutely. And honestly, if you are testifying for the state, you almost have the luxury that your objective opinion and your subjective opinion are kind of the same.

Yeah. Well, uh, thank you so much for being here. It was a great lecture and I think that a lot of people are going to learn, you know, some tips about the importance of the jurors and how to handle themselves in, in court.

Thank you so much for having me.