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Hey, I'm Justin Sunseri.

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I'm a therapist, a coach, and the creator
of the Polyvagal Trauma Relief System.

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I am doing this very much impromptu.

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I was about to get ready to settle
in for the night, maybe watch

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some TV or something like that
before I go to bed, just relax.

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But then I saw this comment here
on YouTube that really gripped my

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attention, and I wanted to respond to
it before really kind of settling in.

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I even got my jammies on.

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I got my red and black
Christmas jammies on.

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It's not Christmas anymore,
but I'm still feeling it.

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So this was in response to a video I
released this week, last week called

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"emotional regulation: balancing
allowing and doing," which really

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was the response to another comment,
which was asking, do we allow, or

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do we do when it comes to emotional
regulation, when it comes to crying?

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Are we allowing the process to happen
or are we making ourselves do something?

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And I made the case It's really
it's probably a balance of both, but

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I would lean more toward allowing
because I based on the polyvagal

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theory teachings at least, The way I
understand it is that we have a our

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bodies have a natural Compulsion or
predisposition toward homeostasis and

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self regulation so it already wants to.

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We our conscious selves
need to allow it to happen.

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So that was the premise.

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That was the basic idea.

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And then this person has a really
interesting comment and I'm

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going to try and tease it out.

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I've read through it once and it
got me thinking, but I'm going

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to read it aloud and process with
you and we'll see where it goes.

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It says, Hi, I'm new.

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Topic gripping.

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Must we permit, and welcome by the way,
must we permit sadness to overwhelm

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unto weeping in order to heal?

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So the way I'm interpreting this question
so far is, do we have to permit sadness to

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the point of overwhelm or to the point of
where the sadness is so overwhelming that

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it turns into weeping in order to heal?

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I don't, I, I, I'm reluctant to
say we have to do anything when

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it comes to this self regulation
trauma recovery kind of stuff.

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I don't want to tell
you what your path is.

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I think there's some common expectations
or common spots, milestones on the

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journey that you'll find yourself in.

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But I'm very reluctant to say
that one must do this or that.

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I think there's some very
general things according to.

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Again, the polyvagal theory, this is
kind of like my, my thing, according

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to polyvagal theory, there are some
things that probably must happen.

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Like we have to build the
strength of our safety state.

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If you have no idea what I'm talking
about, look in the description to this.

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I'll put a link to those episodes
where I talk about polyvagal

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theory really in depth and you'll,
you'll get that crash course in it.

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So I don't want to say what
you must or mustn't do.

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Must somebody must someone
tell their trauma story?

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Must somebody Think of themselves in terms
of having parts or an ego or a shadow.

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Some of this is
subjective, it's up to you.

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Crying is likely going to be a part of
the trauma recovery journey, very likely.

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Sadness, overwhelm are likely
going to be a part of the journey.

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So do you need to feel these
things so intensely that you cry?

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The way that I teach things here, the
way that I do things as a therapist and

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the way that I teach in my Polyvagal
Trauma Relief System, which is a really

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a self guided, self regulatory system.

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The way I teach there is that, no, you
don't have to, but it likely will happen.

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This is, this takes place in the third
phase of my system, where I teach

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people how to look inward, where I teach
them how to go from noticing just the

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emotion, like maybe you can notice the
emotion of sadness, and that's great,

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but underneath that sadness, there lies
other things like bodily sensations.

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and impulses.

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I think emotion and cognition, so thoughts
kind of hang out on the same level.

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I group those together.

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Those are secondary to, or
actually I would say tertiary.

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Those are tertiary to the real
problem, or the real issue.

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So that grouping to me comes
after impulses and sensations.

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Sensations would be things that you feel.

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It's how you know you have an emotion.

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So, you know you have sadness
because you feel heaviness.

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You feel like you're in a dark void.

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You feel little to no energy.

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You feel no motivation.

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All these things I would call sensations
that indicate or that are the experience

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of having an emotion like sadness.

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People often describe having like a
racing heart or heat in their chest when

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they're in like a fight sympathetic state.

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So.

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Like that's kind of what I'm talking
about when I, when I say sensations, but

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I group sensations along with impulses.

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When we have these emotions and
the underlying sensations, the the

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impulses may come along with it,
which tell us what to do with it.

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So in my system, the way I
teach it is if you can notice

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you have sad sadness, great.

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Underneath that sadness might be
heaviness or might feel it be feeling

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like you're Curled up and alone in
a dark room with one light hanging

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above you that is on but flickering.

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I don't know.

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So this might be the image of what
it looks like or what it feels

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like to be you when you're sad.

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It might feel like rejection.

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There might be memories
that come along with it.

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There might be all kinds of stuff, right?

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So if you can tap into that level
of your sadness, mindfully and

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compassionately, which is not easy.

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Then what may happen is that an impulse
arises from that an impulse might

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come up within you and oftentimes
that's good that's going to be crying.

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So do we have to cry in order to heal?

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I don't want to say you have to but
likely it will happen if especially

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if you're coming from like a dorsal
vagal shutdown state or a freeze state.

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That returning or discharging
sympathetic energy is likely going

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to come back or release as crying.

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Especially I think from freeze.

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I don't want to tell
you what you have to do.

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The answer is really like,
it's likely to happen.

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But I don't think you need to force
yourself to cry in order to heal.

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But when you're, when and if you feel
that impulse to cry, if you allow it,

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that will help healing move along.

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Now, some people cry a ton, and they
feel like they can't get any closer

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to healing, or they can't get farther
down their trauma recovery journey.

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That's likely because while you're
crying, you're judging yourself.

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You are telling yourself that you're
weak you're hiding it, you're Keeping

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it a secret, you're crying in isolation
on the floor in the bathroom, or in your

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room, in the closet, in the dark, so
it's not like you're compassionately,

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mindfully experiencing the bodily
sensations, the release that comes

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along, or can come along with crying.

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Or maybe because you have a ton
of crying to do and you're just

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not there yet and that's okay.

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This person goes on to say do I see
a conflict with meditation here?

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And I don't, I don't think so.

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Because so that what they say is I'm
it's the The writing is a bit disjointed.

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So I'm putting pieces together here They
say do I see a conflict with meditation?

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So my answer is I don't think so if you
have difficulty with Feeling what it's

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like to have the emotion of sadness, try
describing it try putting words to it,

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you know, give it a temperature, give
it a size, give it a shape, give it a

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color that kind of stuff, like describe
what it's like to have that emotion.

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They say, so describe again, which
equals observe notice sensations,

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therefore equals focus and awareness.

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And yeah, I agree.

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Yeah, in, in the, my method in the
Polyvagal Trauma Relief System, one

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of the skills that I teach in there
is called the A->W->E Method, which

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is allow witness and experience.

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So anchor in safety, allow yourself to
feel what you feel, witness it, which is

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like that description or is more about
noticing where it lives in the body.

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And then experiencing it is really
that deeper descriptive type of

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description type of experience.

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And then.

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An impulse may arise from that process.

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They say actively describing
would accomplish that presence.

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Yes.

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If I'm understanding
it, then yeah, I agree.

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This is meditating, which I do
when these sensations arrive.

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Yeah.

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I would call this meditating.

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So how, how I personally meditate I, you
can meditate when they arrive or what

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I teach is how to get to the underlying
sensations through this process.

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The act, they say.

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The act of tuning
awareness onto sensation.

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Yes, then broaden observation, alert,
expand intelligent as possible,

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attentive third party observation.

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So I think this is
where we might disagree.

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The third party observation for me is
often the starting point for someone.

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If you're well practiced in this,
then you might not need that.

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But oftentimes what may
happen is you feel an emotion.

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And to get to that next level,
then, like, if you can say, I feel

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sadness, then you shift to that
third party observer kind of mode to

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identify where it lives in your body.

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That's what I would call third party.

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It's like you're kind of zooming
out and getting into, like, more

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of a researcher kind of mindset.

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So you're not delving directly into
what it feels like you're, you're

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more zooming out and noticing where it
lives in your body, and then zoom in

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more specifically to that, to that to
where that emotion lives in your body.

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And then describe what it's like
to have that emotion, what it feels

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like in that part of your body.

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And it could be like, sadness is sometimes
just, it feels like it's just draping

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on us, and that's, that's valid too.

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So the third party observation
permits the stoic to watch.

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Yeah, and that, that
might be a first step.

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This disempowers negative sensations fast.

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This is where I would disagree as well.

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We don't want to disempower them.

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We want to welcome them compassionately,
mindfully, and if you have your

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safety state developed Phase 2 of
my Polyvagal Trauma Relief System.

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If you have developed the safety state
enough, then you'd be able to welcome,

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compassionately and with curiosity,
you'd be able to welcome what it's like

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to have these more negative emotions.

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They're not really negative,
but we'll frame it that way.

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You would be able to welcome
them and experience them.

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And if you can do that from
your safety state, They will

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not be experienced as negative.

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It'll be turned into something else.

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As long as the safety state
is active, then it repurposes

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the defensive activation.

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So that fight energy that you might
feel when dysregulated, if your

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safety state is active, it turns
it into more of a empowerment.

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So the safety state, when active, doesn't
Give, at least definitely in my experience

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and from what I see with my clients,
it doesn't produce this disempowering

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effects of negative sensations.

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It doesn't blunt them.

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It doesn't create a third
party stoic objective thing.

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Instead it makes the, the
individual a direct experiencer

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of what's happening within them.

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So that we might part ways right there.

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This person says that mine are
powerful and abruptly come and go

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due to my method of meditation.

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I reckon I feel better for
long use of this trick.

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Oh boy.

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See, we would disagree there as well.

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These aren't tricks.

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What I teach for myself and what I teach
my clients in my system it's not tricks.

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It's, it is how to feel
what it's like to be you.

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In all regards, that includes what it
feels like to be you in safety, that

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also include what it's like to be you
with these more typically uncomfortable

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emotions and sensations and impulses.

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It's, it's really how to consciously,
mindfully, compassionately be with

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yourself, not to trick yourself into
distancing, numbing cutting off defensive

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activation, or these negative experiences.

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So, I think that's, maybe, I think it's
a pretty distinct separation there from

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the way I'm understanding this comment.

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And by the way, thank you for the
comment, this is wonderful, and I

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appreciate you giving me the chance
to answer you by putting it out there.

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I think a lot of times we treat meditation
As this third party objective thing,

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like we're, we're distancing ourselves
from our present moment experience

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and we're becoming watchers of our
cognitions, maybe floating in and out.

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And no, I don't, I don't
personally look at it that way

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and I don't teach it that way.

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That might be the first step.

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But.

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Like that's, that's a portal.

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That's a window into like that deeper
experience of yourself, in my opinion.

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So yeah, I don't want that person.

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I don't want my clients and my students
to, to use tricks or hacks or whatever

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the heck to diminish defensive activation
instead, ultimately, eventually.

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We want to welcome it.

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We want to welcome it with compassion and.

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Curiosity, genuine compassion
and curiosity, and you may

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not be there right now.

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That's totally fine.

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Just it's not easy.

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It's not fast This is a process but
with my system my overall system that

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that is the goal to To get to that
place eventually and I think it's

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something that constantly unfolds.

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It's not something that's
like, oh, I'm here overnight.

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It's it's a process, it constantly
unfolds with any continuous practice

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building a safety state and then
eventually feeling defensive activation

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or those more negative experiences.

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And this person wraps it up with a final
question thought, they say, can individual

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healing methods be varied as needed?

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Yes.

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The answer is yes.

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Can individual healing methods be varied
as needed or Is it that all who will be

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healed shall first endure bitter weeping?

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Yeah, the wording is interesting,
and I have no idea if this

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person meant it this way.

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I'm just, I don't know them, I don't
know anything about them, right?

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Endure.

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It strikes me.

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It's like, it's not a punishment.

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It's not an affliction.

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It's not a virus.

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It is your self.

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It is your body.

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Releasing I would say flight, fight,
activation, freeze, activation that's

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probably been holding on to for,
potentially for quite a while, pain,

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sadness that it's been holding onto.

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It's, it's lovingly and compassionately
feeling it yourself or you are

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and hopefully releasing it.

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So I, I don't, if you have
for me the word endure.

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I would hope it's a different experience.

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I would hope it's something different.

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But, I think for many of us, it's not.

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And that's okay.

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That's valid too.

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That's normal.

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But, ideally, hopefully, eventually,
we get to that place where, where

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it is a different experience.

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You know, crying can come along with
appreciation it can come along with

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gratitude, it can be with compassion
and I know I keep saying that but I

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think it's an important distinction.

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So can individual healing methods
be varied, yeah of course.

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But likely crying is something
that may happen when or along the

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trauma recovery path, the journey's
path, it likely will happen.

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So if I were to kind of, you know, try
and sum this up here there's no right

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way to, no one right way to do this.

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I don't think there's probably
many different things you could

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do that might be helpful for you.

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There's tons of therapeutic modalities
that I'm not trained in that I have

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no interest in and I will not use.

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But for you that You know, whatever it
is, might be the bee's knees and you

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love it and I'm, I'm happy for you.

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So yeah, all this is individualized,

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but along that journey, no matter what
vehicle you take to get there, the,

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there are typical milestones, landmarks
that you might hit along the way.

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And crying might be one of
them telling your trauma

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narrative might be one of them.

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So, point being, I do think that
crying, releasing, is likely

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gonna be a part of pretty much any
trauma recovery journey, I think.

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But would I say it must happen?

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Eh, I, I won't go that far, but
It's likely going to happen.

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But crying from dysregulation, crying
from detachment, crying from a lack

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of self compassion is different
than crying from safety, crying from

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curiosity, crying from releasing
whatever is inside of you and then

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experiencing gratitude for the process.

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It's a lot, it's a much
different experience.

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If you want to learn more about
my polyvagal trauma relief system,

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head on over to justinlmft.

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com slash P T R S.

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Justin.

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Lmft.

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00:17:43,972 --> 00:17:46,802
com slash P T R S.

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A lot of letters I know.

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That's it.

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Hopefully this was helpful for you.

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I really appreciate the
comments that I get on YouTube.

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Overall, overall, there's lots of love
and it feeds me and I appreciate it.

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And these kind of comments, which
are curious and inquisitive and

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challenged my way of thinking and make
me kind of flesh out my thoughts more.

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I really appreciate it.

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Please keep those coming.

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Thank you for watching.

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Bye.